According to David Alton, a crossbench peer who campaigns on religious freedom, “some assessments claim that as many as 200 million Christians in over 60 countries around the world face some degree of restriction, discrimination or outright persecution”. That is about one in 10 of the 2.2 billion Christians in the world....
“Whatever the real figures the scale is enormous. From Syria, Iraq, Iran and Egypt to North Korea, China, Vietnam and Laos, from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka to Indonesia, Malaysia, Burma, from Cuba, Colombia and Mexico to Eritrea, Nigeria and Sudan, Christians face serious violations of religious freedom,” Alton said. Persecution ranged from murder, rape and torture to repressive laws, discrimination and social exclusion....
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"Dying for Christianity: millions at risk amid rise in persecution across the globe."
A long article in The Guardian. Excerpt:
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And CHristianity is growing, which tends to happen at times of greater persecution.
"some assessments claim that as many as 200 million Christians in over 60 countries around the world face some degree of restriction, discrimination or outright persecution"
And that's excluding the USA.
Christians (and Jews) practice what stands for a general human rights culture; Islam practices a tribal culture.
The rules are different.
The latter is more hit the other tribe on the head and take their stuff thing. It's not conducive to morality or social advancement, but it's a stable social system. You've got to suppress the other guys, though.
Like organized crime. It's stable too, unless it's outnumbered and killed off.
Christians face serious violations of religious freedom,” Alton said. Persecution ranged from murder, rape and torture to repressive laws, discrimination and social exclusion....
Worst of all: climate change. Just ask Obama and the Pope.
This will get Christians off their high horse.
I'm sure Obama will get right on that. Right after he lectures Africa on transgender rights.
And the pope worries about the weather.
Lapsed Catholic here.
Climate change is causing the persecution of Christians. So the way to stop the persecution of Christians is to enact a carbon tax and raise the price of electricity by 5x and stop private use of air conditioning and never use petroleum, coal or nuclear energy.
Hope that helps.
It's a very broad definition of persecution. Christians in Muslim countries can be killed. In the U.S. and other 1st world countries, it is much more subtle, which is why it thrives and grows. Christianity is OK as long as it is very watered down and doesn't conflict with acceptable views of the majority. The crazy Christians that believe that the Bible is the basis for their belief and believe unacceptable things like homosexuality as a sin will be meeting in secret within the next twenty years.
As many as.
Meanwhile, Scott Walker's foreign affairs advisor recommended nuking the capitals of 7 Islamic countries not long after 9/11.
I wonder how the author of this article would classify that, if applied to Christians.
Wow, Igv!!! Just.....WOW!
These are, of course, the conditions that our faith is made for: persecution, suffering, despair. "For Christians," Michael Novak once said, "the cross is inescapable, and one ought always to be prepared to take it up."
Don't get me wrong: the position we hold in the West is great. I do not think we suffer 'persecution' here, and I do not think it is very likely that we will do so in the near-term future. But should the day come that we do: we can take it. Our brothers and sisters around the world are proving it, right now, under the yoke.
I'm professionally and personally involved with Assyrian Christians in Iraq and, lately, in the Khabur River Valley in Syria. The Assyrian Christians in Iraq reside primarily in the Nineveh Plains region, in the vicinity of Mosul. They are quite literally fighting for their lives--battling ISIS, which is bent on exterminating them. ISIS is prosecuting a genocidal agenda. The Assyrian are resisting valiantly and effectively--the situation is desperate but not hopeless. They are not victims and they don't see themselves as victims. Of course the Obama administration is doing NOTHING to help them and is in fact affecting them adversely with its policies and actions. Working with the Assyrians is what I'm doing most days when I'm not commenting here. Just thought people should know that Christian Assyrians are fighting the good fight. And, yes, there are ways and channels for helping them ...
We atheists are fewer in number and are persecuted and discriminated against even more, even in the "Christian" USSA, where we have to endure "God" even on our coins and bills and in pledges, oaths, anthems and monuments.
Even the Boy Scouts, who tout their new rules accepting gays, still discriminate against atheists.
mikee,
Off-topic, but if climate change-- specifically, human-induced climate change due to the massive increase in "greenhouse gases"-- is the problem, then the most preferable form of energy is actually nuclear. It actually has a smaller carbon footprint per MWh than petroleum, coal, geothermal, hydro, even solar and wind-- and it's not even close. The drawback is safe disposal of the spent fuel- and granted that is an environmental challenge, but one that has nothing to do with climate change.
The fact that so many climate change alarmists dismiss nuclear energy as part of the solution (or are outright hostile to it) is one of the reasons I think the movement is being led about like a bunch of sheep.
I know you were being sarcastic, so this wasn't directed at you, but I feel compelled to champion nuclear power as the best alternative to ending climate change at every occasion. It's what I do.
NI'm professionally and personally involved with Assyrian Christians in Iraq and, lately, in the Khabur River Valley in Syria. The Assyrian Christians in Iraq reside primarily in the Nineveh Plains region, in the vicinity of Mosul. They are quite literally fighting for their lives--battling ISIS, which is bent on exterminating them. ISIS is prosecuting a genocidal agenda. The Assyrian are resisting valiantly and effectively--the situation is desperate but not hopeless. They are not victims and they don't see themselves as victims. Of course the Obama administration is doing NOTHING to help them and is in fact affecting them adversely with its policies and actions. Working with the Assyrians is what I'm doing most days when I'm not commenting here. Just thought people should know that Christian Assyrians are fighting the good fight. And, yes, there are ways and channels for helping them ...
Sucker. I wish I didn't have to add that.
If only the Christians were persecuted by white Christians, this would attract more attention and outrage.
...but it's not like it's as bad as the Crusades, you guys.
Yeah, I bet we'll see Democrats ever give the first iota of a shit about that. And people wonder why some think Dems don't support Christianity.
Meanwhile, Scott Walker's foreign affairs advisor recommended nuking the capitals of 7 Islamic countries not long after 9/11.
I wonder how the author of this article would classify that, if applied to Christians.
They'd probably differentiate hypothetical actions and ACTUAL ones.
You seem to have problems doing that yourself.
We atheists are fewer in number and are persecuted and discriminated against even more, even in the "Christian" USSA, where we have to endure "God" even on our coins and bills and in pledges, oaths, anthems and monuments.
Your courage should be an example for those Christians being massacred in other countries.
"Sure, you're dying --- but have you seen the currency I have to deal with? Whiny fuckers!"
but it's not like it's as bad as the Crusades, you guys. ?
The irony for the uneducated Left is that the goings-on right now is what caused the Crusades in the first place.
And wouldn't the world be a better place had they succeeded?
The 20th C was the golden age (so far) of Christian persecution, except it happened mostly in countries that the Guardian was busy touting as "mankind's best hope". We really have no idea of just how many people were martyred for their faith versus just getting murdered for a myriad of other ideological reasons. Of the many tens of millions killed by the 20th C's communist regimes, the number who died nameless & alone for the sake of their faith is known only to God, but there's no doubt that the number of deaths far surpassed the classic persecutions of ancient Rome.
When I was kid in Catholic school, they made us learn the Baltimore catechism. In the Catechism, there's the question: What are the three kinds of Baptism? ("I know, Sister Margaret, I know!") The answer is water, desire, & blood. Well, water's the easy one. Everybody gathers around the font & the priest pours water over the screaming baby, which is what happened with all of us in class. Baptism of desire is kinda spooky, and involves God alone working it out post-mortem with the soul of the virtuous departed, pagan or not, so that was no skin off our noses. And, finally, baptism of blood was happened ages ago to Roman soldiers & that ilk who were moved to repentance by what they saw of Christian martyrdom. That was waaaay back then, and, now, when was that recess bell ever going to ring? Little did we (or really, anyone) know that across the big ocean, Chairman Mao had begun the Cultural Revolution, and it would usher in a whole new golden age of martyrdom & baptisms of blood.
Cuba? No way. I am shocked!
Mark, give Iran a couple years and we'll know.
Donald,
"Sucker"? What do mean?
He said: "Turn the other cheek...
Well there's a better world a-waitin' for the meek..."
How does one turn the other cheek after one is beheaded?
Shut UP, because Christians murdered Marine Recruiters and Naval Reservists during the Crusades.
Me, personally, I'm glad Jan Sobieski didn't turn the other cheek at Vienna.
"The archbishop of Canterbury said that attacks on religious freedom were often linked to economic, social and historical circumstances ... the archbishop of Canterbury alluded to Christianity’s own historical record of persecuting others."
The old joke was, "Is the Pope Catholic?" yet perhaps it's not so unreasonable to ask, "is the archbishop of Canterbury Christian?"
Might one assume, perhaps, that the Archbishop will defend Christians and Christianity until there are no Christians, and no more Christianity?
Might one assume, perhaps, that the Archbishop will defend Christians and Christianity until there are no Christians, and no more Christianity?
At least when the Prophet's head-choppers come for him, he'll die pure.
This war won't be won with guns or weapons.
No, it will be won by kneeling meekly before our executioners, like those Copts on the beach in Libya (or who is it this week, Eritreans?), and rendering them helpless with awe by our humility and sacrifice. Like that Centurion on Calvary.
So that's your angle. Seriously.
There's a semi-popular children's book that tells stories of Christian bravery in the past to encourage young Christians. It begins with the story of Polycarp.
Roughcoat, Good for you. I see more in the French Catholic media about the Assyrians than I do over here, which is understandable, sort of, in that France historically acted as 'protector' of the Christians in the Levant etc.
Blogger jimbino said...
We atheists are fewer in number and are persecuted and discriminated against even more, even in the "Christian" USSA, where we have to endure "God" even on our coins and bills and in pledges, oaths, anthems and monuments.
As an atheist, why do you care? If there is no god then the mention of it shouldn't intimidate you.
The Christ's "Marching Orders" are contained in Luke 22:35-38.
That applies to Court Orders enforcing "Involuntary Servitude" to sexual perverts by bakeries, florists and others.
When Sunni and Shiites go to war, it's called a holy war. When Hutu's hunted down and massacred Tutsi, it was genocide.
When the Islamic State (no longer ISIS) hunts down and kills, enslaves, and otherwise persecutes Christians and Jews it's called....a regional conflict by a terror entity?
Foxe's Book of Martyrs would be another good one to peruse.
"We atheists are fewer in number and are persecuted and discriminated against even more, even in the "Christian" USSA, where we have to endure "God" even on our coins and bills and in pledges, oaths, anthems and monuments."
I have been an atheist for over 40 years since I left the Presbyterian Church. I make no secret of it and have never been really hassled about, at least certainly much less than I've been harassed by members of the Church of Gaia.
I do not proselytize the religious, I respect their world view as long as it helps make them better citizens. [I totally dig LDS.] I realize that I'm in a minority and whining about "In God We Trust" seems so fucking petty.
Maybe, Jimbino, you feel a bit oppressed as an atheist because you are one of those atheist assholes who won't shut up.
A few years back, the late Cardinal George of the Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago, who died in April, said this: “I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square. His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the Church has done so often in human history.”
"Blogger Dave D said...
Wow, Igv!!! Just.....WOW!"
Is what I said that crazy? I don't think it is crazy to think that having evangelical or fundamentalist Christian views will be acceptable in the future. Speaking about such beliefs today is viewed as hate speech, whether prosecutable or not. If twitter was around a hundred years ago, tweeting your atheist views would get the same kind of backlash. Mozilla dude gives money to a group that supports hetero vote, loses job through shaming. You think an anti-homosexual Christian is going to remain employed at Apple or American Airlines? The will have to be remain very quiet.
The outward response to Jenner is to go gah-gah about all that is Caitlyn. God forbid you tweet that you think he is still Bruce to you. I saw her on a morning show. I told my wife, she's a pre-op tranny, which is just chick with a dick. I can see myself being punished for saying that at some point in the future. I'm not one of those Christians, but I think I see a difficult future for them, even in America. And yes, it's not the same as Christian persecution in other countries.
I told my wife, she's a pre-op tranny
Given that he has no plans on getting his cock sliced off, he is a "she" only if ALL that is required to be a woman is to like to wear dresses and make-up.
I'd have thought feminists would be offended, but since they're not, apparently women are ONLY dresses and make-up.
Folks like Jenner used to be called simply "Transvestites". Not sure why that's not "enough" these days. Something to do with #CisNormative, or #GenderPrivilege maybe.
"Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Sorry about the "Lynne Gallagher" on the 7:39 post. My wife had logged into gmail with my iPad and I couldn't get back in for some reason. It's fixed now.
She, of course, disavows any responsibility for my comments.
Hombre
hombre: "he, of course, disavows any responsibility for my comments"
Wives do that.
And rightfully so.
I speak from experience of course.
Blogger hombre said...
A few years back, the late Cardinal George of the Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago, who died in April, said this: “I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square. His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the Church has done so often in human history.”
7/27/15, 4:17 PM
When I first read that quote, years ago, I thought George was being a bit - how can I put this kindly -melodramatic. I don't think that anymore. I can easily imagine Christians being imprisoned for being Christians in the not so distant future- while the jimbinos of the world cheer and applaud.(Poor persecuted baby! Why, the poor child has to deal with "In God We Trust" on his money - which is exactly like being beheaded by ISIS) Hell, I can imagine some atheists rationalizing and celebrating the execution of Christians in the public square. Because - hey, Crusades. And Galileo.
I am not a good Christian, but I am a Christian. I pray that when push comes to shove, I will be brave enough to stand with the Christians.
@Drago: My wife is a she. Typos notwithstanding, it's necessary to be specific now. Not all wives are "shes."
What an absurd world we live in.
@Katrina: When push comes to shove, God will stand with us. It's what he does, even when he does not save us for this world.
No one so far has mentioned how charming the comments over at the Guardian are for this article.
Even when innocent Christian men, women & children are being murdered in Syria & Iraq, the resident lefties of the Guardian cannot work themselves up to sympathy.
One of the reasons I moved away from the Left was because I saw from from history & from personal experience, that as a believer I was an enemy to them. There could be truces & temporary alliances along the way, but the instant I stepped outside a "social justice" faith that followed their lead, I was the enemy.
The free-market right may often behave in ways not congruent with traditional Christian beliefs, but at least it's not in their DNA to seek faith's destruction.
Mark wrote, "Meanwhile, Scott Walker's foreign affairs advisor recommended nuking the capitals of 7 Islamic countries not long after 9/11."
If only.
I'd like to point out to those mocking atheists here, we are not always your enemy. We often defend freedom at least as vigorously as you because we have as much or much to lose should that freedom be lost.
Also, atheists are treated much worse by Muslims than Christians or even Jews are.
"Also, atheists are treated much worse by Muslims than Christians or even Jews are"
What's worse than beheading?
Peter: Might one assume, perhaps, that the Archbishop will defend Christians and Christianity until there are no Christians, and no more Christianity?
I don't think it's going to be very long before we see prominent Anglican clergy announcing their conversion to Islam. Same with Roman Catholic clergy on the continent, some of whom (though certainly not all) are as utterly spiritually unmanned as the Anglicans and the other groove-alicious, moribund mainline Christian denominations.
I'm not joking. Having succeeded in gutting their own faiths in the service of their moral vanity, and finally boring themselves into despair - and driving off the last of their pew-warmers - with their ever-escalating "progressive" reforms, they'll face the choice of either hanging themselves or moving on to a livelier faith. But it will have to be something fashionable, palatable to biens-pensants. That means Islam.
(You know we've entered Bizarro World when the guy straightforwardly defending Christians and Christian culture is Richard Dawkins, and the Archbishops got nothin' but "yes, but".)
"... as utterly spiritually unmanned as the Anglican and the other groove-alicious, moribund mainline Christian denominations."
Heartbreaking, isn't it?
"Only God can judge me. [Meanwhile, I will judge everyone else, particularly my fellow Christians.]"
There. Fixed.
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