The process can fill a room with volatile butane vapors that can be ignited by an errant spark or flame.
“They get enough vapors inside the building and it goes off, and it’ll bulge out the walls,” said Chuck Mathis, the fire marshal in Grand Junction, where the Fire Department responded to four explosions last year. “They always have a different story: ‘Nothing happened’ or ‘I was cooking food, and all of a sudden there was an explosion.’ They always try to blame it on something else.”
१८ जानेवारी, २०१५
"When Colorado legalized marijuana two years ago, nobody was quite ready for the problem of exploding houses."
"The explosions occur as people pump butane fuel through a tube packed with raw marijuana plants to draw out the psychoactive ingredient tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, producing a golden, highly potent concentrate that people sometimes call honey oil, earwax or shatter."
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
९४ टिप्पण्या:
Potheads, explosive gases; what could go wrong?
"They always try to blame it on something else." That sums up the character of druggies. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Or droughts. Lets not forget the amount of water used.
"Wow, that's really great shit, Mrs Presky!"
Another problem with legalization of a lot of these drugs. Manufacturing has it's own issues. And many people who are making stuff like meth or growing pot, aren't doing so in manufaturing plants. But rather doing so in a hotel room or their apartments.
Which are not designed with volatile butane vapors in mind.
Houses never exploded before Colorado legalized pot.
I like how they charge them with arson, as if the people are trying to burn down their houses.
Show me the person and I will show you the crime.
"I like how they charge them with arson, as if the people are trying to burn down their houses."
Look at the text of the statute.
I haven't looked, but I'm going to suspect that some level of recklessness is enough.
It endangers people and it wastes the community's money calling in the fire department like that. And if the fire department is answering one call, it could be late for another.
Blogger BarrySanders20 said...
Houses never exploded before Colorado legalized pot.
1/18/15, 8:30 AM
----------------------
Yes, there were exploding houses before. But then it was fracking.
Text of Jury Instructions:
4-1:06 ARSON - FOURTH DEGREE - ENDANGERED PERSON
The elements of the crime of fourth degree arson are:
1. That the defendant,
2. in the State of Colorado, at or about the date and place charged,
3. knowingly or recklessly [started or maintained a fire] [caused an explosion],
4. on his own property or that of another, and
5. by doing so placed another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury,...
4-1:07 ARSON - FOURTH DEGREE – ENDANGERED PROPERTY
The elements of the crime of fourth degree arson are:
1. That the defendant,
2. in the State of Colorado, at or about the date and place charged,
3. knowingly or recklessly,
4.[started or maintained a fire] [caused an explosion],
5. on his own property or that of another, and,
6. by doing so placed any building or occupied structure of another in danger of damage.
7. the value of the property endangered was [less than one hundred dollars] [more than one hundred dollars].
Aw, what a shame. Natural selection at work??
Yes, there were exploding houses before. But then it was fracking. LOL
And for the record, though I have little respect for potheads as a group, based on my experience with them while younger, I don't have a problem with legalization in CO.
So this is occurring because people are making hash oil.
"Even as cities try to clamp down on homemade hash oil and lawmakers consider outlawing it, some enthusiasts argue for their right to make it safely without butane, and criminal defense lawyers say the practice can no longer be considered a crime under the 2012 constitutional amendment that made marijuana legal to grow, smoke, process and sell."
This whole drug legalization thing isn't going to work in our society. Because if hash oil is to be legal then those producing it need to get permits and need to install safety measures and systems so that they aren't burning the house down.
They are using their house as a business and using volatile chemicals and gases to make their product.
If this were a leglitimate business they'd need inspections to operate.If they dindn't have the proper ventilation they couldn't operate. etc etc.
If we are to have legalized pot then you can't make it in your house. OR you'd have to open your house open to GOVT inspection.
tim in vermont wrote:
And for the record, though I have little respect for potheads as a group, based on my experience with them while younger, I don't have a problem with legalization in CO.
I do if people are burning their houses down.
How are they producing hash oil in their basement unregulated? Where if they were selling a product that required them to use volatile gases , or gases were the byproduct of manufacturing that wasn't pot?
Would a corporation be able to manufacture such products absent govt regulating their business up the whazoo for safety reasons?
I'm totally fine with potheads blowing themselves up. kinda poetic in a weird way...
@jr565,
So you want morons to live forever?
So can people smoke dope at Bronco's
football games?
are there no environmental regulations for people who make hash oil? Why, because it's hash oil? Is the legalization so important that we are suddenly creating a special class of product that doesn't require any sort of regulation in its manufacturing process?
Why does hash oil production suddenly get special consideration?
Lets pretend it wasn't hash oil, but some other product not associated with drugs. (so that the usual crowd can't bring up faux war on drugs wars arguments)
And lets say the process was volatile enough that people were blowing their houses up. IF that happened a few times, society would ban people from being able to manufacture such things in their basement unless they met all requirements under law.
You can't even rent out your basement if it isn't up to code for example.
It simply makes no sense that if we would force people to build a house up to code that we somehow would let them mix chemicals in their basement with no restriction. Even moreso when what they are making is a product they will sell .
Hash oil made with butane fuel? That’s the problem with the current status of legalized weed. There are no comprehensive rules, standards or regulatory authority. If weed is to be legalized, it needs to follow the precedents of distilled spirits. That includes bonded warehouses, federal tax stamps and product standards.
Off topic, The History of Spirits in America by Gary Regan and Mardee Haidin Regan is a great book. http://www.discus.org/heritage/spirits/ Spirits had an enormous impact in the settlement of the America. From the sugar, rum and slave trade, to the Pennsylvania and Ohio valley whiskey trade. For much of America, there was no currency other than spirits. It could be barreled, stored and retain value. Settlers cleared land, grew grain and made spirits as currency for the barter of goods. There was no East India Company to facilitate westward settlement. It was done with whiskey. Not without problems, but eventually it became a regulated consumer product. If weed is to be a consumer product, it needs to get out of pothead's trailers and garages and get serious.
What's with your obsession with regulation, jr?
It used to be that the cop knew you were lying when you claimed you'd only had two beers, but nowadays you can drive to a brewpub, have two beers, and get completely hammered.
That includes bonded warehouses, federal tax stamps and product standards
The problem is that it is so easy to grow, even potheads can do it, you are never going to get rid of the "loosies" problem.
Original Mike wrote:
What's with your obsession with regulation, jr?
I don't have one> I'm simply pointing out the way the world works, not the way libertarians suggest it does.
What makes libertarians think that if we had legalized drugs that we wouldn't have to regulate them like we regulate everything?
I
People were making hash oil, and blowing their houses up in the process, before pot was legal. And making hash oil in a private residence using volatile substances that produce explosive vapors is undoubtedly illegal, probably in several different ways. The laws of physics are always obeyed. The laws of man, not so much.
No, man. You have an obsession with regulation, and you have an obsession with libertarians. Come to think of it, it's probably the same obsession.
And so, if we legalize hash oil, only manufacturers that meet all the safety standards could actually produce it. And therefore all those fly by night organziations making stuff in their basement would run afoul of the law. Requiring the state to send in the police to deal with them. Especially if they are blowing up their houses.
Original Mike wrote:
No, man. You have an obsession with regulation, and you have an obsession with libertarians. Come to think of it, it's probably the same obsession.
If you think I have an obsession with it, then you have a blind spot to it. Regulation? What regulation?What is that word I never heard of it?
Do you actually live in the US?
Madison, WI.
If those who want legalization completely ignore regulation in their discussisons, then they are not seriously arguing a legitimate position, simply arguing a platitude.
Wait until meth and crack are semi-legalized. There is going to be exploding houses all over creation.
Vermont Tim - The problem is that it is so easy to grow, even potheads can do it, you are never going to get rid of the "loosies" problem.
I’d rather buy a six pack of Sierra Nevada and a bottle of Buffalo Trace at the store than to try to make it at home. Most people don’t have the time or place to grow weed. Although there are a lot of growers in my homestate of Maine.
Madison WI:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/residents/winter/parking/alternateSideParking.cfm
http://www.cityofmadison.com/residents/winter/SnowIce/snowRules.cfm
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/regulations/
https://www.countyofdane.com/ordinances/#zoning
Zoninng, parking, fishing, snow. Regulated up the whazoo.
But if your'e mixing chemicals in your basement. NO Regulation. Even though what you are doing is dangerous enough to blow your house up.
Nobody (or, did anybody?) ever said dope smokers were really intelligent, or technically competent engineers.
I've got no problems with them regulating whatever it is they're doing in CO. In fact, seems like they should ban it, it's dangerous. I was just struck with the Eric Garner threads, and now this; regulation, regulation, regulation, libertarians, regulation, regulation ....
It sounds like the matter is self correcting.
Potheads, explosive gases: Accelerating the process of natural selection.
There goes evolution in action.
recklessly is such a nice-term for law enforcement. You can be as careful as possible, but if things go south you can still be charged with being reckless.
And?
It doesn't appear CO can handle its own affairs. Indeed, we need the Althousian commentariat to help us, otherwise we might all die in house explosions.
Thank you all for your concern and intelligent, knowledgeable suggestions filled with our best interests at heart and not your own ego-gratifying pipe-dreamcasts.
You speak in the name of Science and God and all humanity is better for it. When your knowledge is gone, so is all hope for mankind.
It ain't like it used to be.
"recklessly is such a nice-term for law enforcement. You can be as careful as possible, but if things go south you can still be charged with being reckless."
There are many things you should simply avoid doing. Being as "careful as possible" isn't enough of an answer.
You can't pump butane fuel through some home-rigged tube packed with marijuana carefully enough. It's always reckless! If the authorities find out — because there is an explosion and fire — then that's going to be an easy-to-prove crime.
I have no problem with that at all.
Tell me this isn't FUNNY.
Funny.
This and the bib in one day.
Maybe that's it, he's mixing, she's got the bib on, then BOOM.
Evolution includes jr's dream of regulation, aka barriers to entry, which kill the little guy's business.
You foolish out there might not get it, so pay attention: Just as running faster than competition allowed the panther to kill more prey and pass on offspring that run faster, crony capitalism kills small business through regulation and reduces the opportunities to pass on the genes of the little guy. The monkey that used the tools, via their monkey brain, is the same as Steve Jobs designing a corporation to design the IPhone.
Now you might ask "What about The Panda's Thumb" and you have a point. New Coke. Google Glass. Those are the Panda's Thumb in the Gould formulation.
There's no doubt one of the effects of smoking pot is that it makes you "stupid". (Ok you're an exception...right) So lets work on getting stupider.
You can't pump butane fuel through some home-rigged tube packed with marijuana carefully enough.
If it were always reckless, people wouldn't do it because it would always cause an explosion. That it is done -- frequently -- testifies to what careful oversight can achieve.
I have no problem with the activity being illegal -- but it should be made explicitly illegal, not covered with some vaguely -- recklessly!! -- written statute.
(Actually -- not recklessly written at all; it covers just about everything! Mission Accomplished, Big Govermment!)
I am guessing it's something any good science (experimentalist) or engineering student could do safely.
How many of these people are actually doing this in their own houses? How many of them are doing in their landlord's house? How many of them are doing it their own homes, but then making insurance claims?
In the latter cases, arson charges are perfectly reasonable.
Comprehensive marijuana processing legislation would eliminate all these explosions and ensure public safety. The problem is a lack of regulation.
This a zoning issue.
....and what law will keep reefer maniacs from burning down the house??
It would be like felons, and handguns. There's a law against that, but they always end up together.
I wonder if the butane they used was spiked with the usual odorants like propane and natural gas are. If not, it's much harder to perceive a leak.
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/01/17/man-killed-in-weld-county-explosion-identified/
Looks like it's about time for me to move out of CO. It is becoming irresponsible, dare I say reckless, to merely live in a state with such a lack of regulation that homes are literally exploding.
I'll bet liquid CO2 would work as well.
I hate that word reckless.
The State of Alaska uses it in its Domestic Violence statute. I forget the exact verbiage, but its written something like, purposefully or recklessly beating your spouse. Many years ago there was a drunk driver case in Florida that went to the supreme court. They decided that hurting someone while drunk driving wasn't a crime of violence because it was reckless.
Later, the 9th circuit adapted this to anything done recklessly. Including spousal abuse.
Fast forward to my job. Nigerian citizen living in the US. He beats his wife. Thanks to Hillary and Bill (and the Republican legislature at the time), Domestic Violence was made a Deportable Charge, as a crime of violence, along with gun possession, in the mid 90s.
The police report describes what he did. That his wife was bruised on her face and neck from where he punched her and choked her.
He was convicted in Alaska state court. The statute reads he was convicted of knowingly or recklessly beating his wife (not verbatim).
Because it doesn't specify whether it was recklessly or not, he can't be deported.
Frustrating stuff. But a lot of our immigration laws are like this.
When you hear Obama say we focus on the criminals, realize that not all criminals get deported. There is a very long list here in Washington state, published online, for defense attorneys to plea bargain down to for the sake of their clients. These plea bargains don't trigger deportation.
Why is marijuana the only intoxicant in the history of the world without any downsides worth fretting about?
I am guessing it's something any good science (experimentalist) or engineering student could do safely.
I don't think I'd take that bet.
The basic problem here is that butane gas is incredibly flammable. Venting it into any volume that contains oxygen is inherently going to carry a risk of explosion, and since it's in the gas phase, it's all going to burn at once. (If it were a solid or liquid, the surface would burn first -- actually, the surface would evaporate into the gas phase and burn in the gas phase.)
So the real problem in your venting setup is that you've got to completely eliminate oxygen from the reaction chamber, and you've got to dispose of the butane after you've vented it -- say, by flaring it off at a burner on the other side. But the goal of all of this is a reaction chamber that we can load a lot of pot into, and we're letting oxygen back into the system every time we do that.
Ok, suppose we have a two tank setup -- butane and an inert gas like nitrogen. We vent nitrogen first to clear the system of oxygen, butane next, then nitrogen last to clear the system of butane. We flare off the butane when it reaches the other side of the reaction chamber. Safe, right?
Not safe! Venting a gas that is stored in a highly compressed or liquid phase sucks a lot of heat out of the environment as the gas expands. One side of our reaction chamber is going to be freezing solid while the other half is going to be roaring hot because of all the butane we're burning. Thermal stress causes pipes to expand and contract, and breaks seals. And if any oxygen gets into the system -- disaster! (Homemade stills blow up all the time due to problems like this.)
I think if you wanted to do this on any scale at all, you would want to consult with a bona fide chemical engineer. You would want to build a real reaction chamber based on accepted engineering principles. And if you don't, I think it's perfectly reasonable that people would charge you with being negligent -- I mean, what, nobody told you that butane is flammable?
"I think if you wanted to do this on any scale at all, you would want to consult with a bona fide chemical engineer."
My bias is showing; when I think student I'm thinking advanced grad student or post-doc. I expect the same level of competence from my students in the lab as I would a professional. And they routinely meet my expectations.
Nor am I arguing for allowing this.
Good grief, this has nothing to do with legalization per se.
It's with doing amateur chemical-plant processes in residential neighborhoods. Have none of you ever heard of houses-cum-meth-labs burning down? Last I heard, nobody has legalized the recreational use of meth.
I am a doctor with 40 years experience. When young, I was all for our drug laws. As time has gone by, I feel the exact opposite. Many countries do not have the draconian laws and restrictions in freedom that we have. These countries as a result have far less of a drug problem. Why do we have the government running around trying to control every aspect of our lives? Let people use drugs as they desire. Buy a narcotic should be no different than buying an aspirin. Why do you have to go to a doctor to get what you need for any condition? I have found that doctors are actually as much a danger to your health as the alternatives. Sure, you need a doctor for certain situations, but you can take care of much of your needs without one. People used to do this. Our current system does nothing to curb drug abuse, but it does limit drugs getting to people that need them, like those with chronic pain.
I expect the same level of competence from my students in the lab as I would a professional.
Are we reacting one cubic centimeter of pot under a fume hood here, or are we doing something on an industrial scale?
You're significantly backtracking on your original claim here. Are the people who are setting up this equipment professionals, are they advanced students who are functionally equivalent to professionals, or are they just people with a general knowledge of the relevant principles?
Your original claim is that any good student should be able to do this -- ie, that a little bit of care is enough. I come out with a cursory explanation of the relevant hazards, and suddenly "any good student" becomes "I expect the same level of competence from my students in the lab as I would a professional. And they routinely meet my expectations."
In response to your new position, you might be convinced, but is anybody else? If you put your students to work on this problem, could you get your reactor insured for $10 million in damages, in case it explodes and horribly burns the operating crew? What are you going to say when Original Mike, LLC is sued for triple damages plus pain and suffering?
If this is going to be done, it should not be done with pothead engineering in your own house. It's a real engineering problem, and it needs to be done by someone who isn't going to make an elementary mistake that's explained in Chapter 2 of Chemical Engineering for Dummies. And that someone needs to be able to swear on a witness stand that all due precautions were taken.
I probably came off as more confrontational in that last comment than I wanted to. But I do think that processes involving large volumes of flammable gases in enclosed spaces are inherently dangerous. If you're going to do it, you need to hire a professional. It's the dangers you don't anticipate that are going to kill you.
You can't pump butane fuel through some home-rigged tube packed with marijuana carefully enough
Oh God. I have this big contraption in my kitchen that pumps methane through tubes (admittedly not packed with marijuana, didn't really think of that) which I use for recklessly cooking food. (It wasn't originally home-rigged, but alas I have repaired it myself from time to time, so now it kind of is.)
I better dismantle it quick and go back to eating nuts and berries.
" are they advanced students who are functionally equivalent to professionals"
This.
"I probably came off as more confrontational in that last comment than I wanted to."
I already admitted my use of the word "student" in my first post is not something most people would think of as a student. I run (ran, actually, I just retired) a university developmental physics lab. And, as I also said, doing this in a basement is not a good idea.
Actually, it is a matter of legalization. If marijuana were really legalized (as opposed to the current situation of being against Federal law), this would be a matter of industrial scale production in commercial processing plants designed by qualified engineers, creating product both cheap and abundant enough that you'd have almost nobody doing home production.
See also what would happen with genuinely legalized methamphetamine.
jr565 @ 1/18/15 8:52 AM:
"...If we are to have legalized pot then you can't make it in your house. OR you'd have to open your house open to GOVT inspection."
Dude! Why are you so down on artisanal THC? Extracted from locally grown plants by hand with locally fracked methane, in a kitchen with original stained glass windows and those macrame plant holders?
Don't come at us with that cGMP stuff. So...corporate. Bummer.
These explosions generally happen in the winter because "open loop" extraction, what these people are doing involves pushing butane through a glass or stainless steel pipe. The butane flows through a filter at the end of the tube into a catch tray. The butane passes through the plant material and bonds to the THC as a solvent and is evaporated off. This happens more in winter for obvious reasons.
Even most black market people are using fairly cheap closed loop systems. They are comparable to a still. They will save you money on the butane in a few runs which isn't cheap. This problem will take care of itself. The butane is recycled and reused and the closed loop system pays for itself quickly. The dumb people kill themselves. Win win.
But of course the little tyrants are all over this. Gotta have more government with vague statutes protecting everyone. They will wait for the next unfortunate death to write another law with the word reckless in it. And all you would have to do is a quick Google search to find out what I just posted. Little tyrants are just as lazy as the idiots that blow up their basements.
Also people doing open loop are not licensed anywhere. It has nothing to do with legalization.
I also want to point out that if you pass more taxes and regulations you will make it harder for the people who will do it right. More taxes and regulations means more black market and more exploded basements.
Oh yeah, I read about people blowing up houses making black market bourbon all the time.
BudBrown: "So can people smoke dope at Bronco's football games?"
Some Denver-ites might suggest that given the Head Coach/Defensive and Offensive Coordinators looking for their next gig prior to their playoff game along with the horrendous lack of preparation by the team (for the 3rd year in a row) that the team was smoking dope and it was the crowd that was forced to sober up.
Achilles wrote:
Even most black market people are using fairly cheap closed loop systems. They are comparable to a still. They will save you money on the butane in a few runs which isn't cheap. This problem will take care of itself. The butane is recycled and reused and the closed loop system pays for itself quickly. The dumb people kill themselves. Win win.
But of course the little tyrants are all over this. Gotta have more government with vague statutes protecting everyone. They will wait for the next unfortunate death to write another law with the word reckless in it. And all you would have to do is a quick Google search to find out what I just posted. Little tyrants are just as lazy as the idiots that blow up their basements.
But the fireman who has to put out the fire might himself die. And the neighborhs house might also go up in flames.
Achilles wrote:
Also people doing open loop are not licensed anywhere. It has nothing to do with legalization.
I also want to point out that if you pass more taxes and regulations you will make it harder for the people who will do it right. More taxes and regulations means more black market and more exploded basements.
So? Those who can't meet the requirements shouldn't be making hash oil in the first place.
Oh yeah, I read about people blowing up houses making black market bourbon all the time.
The moonshine trade today focuses on sugar jack. And yes, the stills explode all the time:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Le3jpDpqJ0wC&printsec=frontcover&dq=chasing+the+white+dog&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GUG8VMHwJ8amyASbloKgAw&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=sugar%20jack&f=false
I have a cousin who’s getting his legal grow established under Massachusetts medical marijuana law. He’s the family’s notorious ne’re-do-well trust fund fuckup. After a decade wasted on expensive college adventures which he never finished; a failed rap recording company; a failed film company; he will now be providing script marijuana. I wouldn’t trust him to grow tomatoes. I suspect he’s no different than the rest of the clowns in this industry.
The same rules for distilling spirits should be applied to weed. All distilling takes place in federally bonded and controlled facilities. Distilling takes substantial capital investment and commitment to compliance with rules, standards and regulations. And guess what, the best bourbon in the world is being made and is available for sale at your corner liquor store. None of this is present in the current patchwork of states and its rag tag participants.
The market will figure it out. Insurance. Need riders on policies, or no coverage. Landlords can get legal prohibitions to renters activities. No business, no manufacture, Big deposits to make it painful. Maybe a big bond, again the market can correct this if you give it a little time. Those pushing for regulation misundstand regulation. It is not safety. It is govt income, and graft. Picking winners (donors) and losers
Unintended Consequences.
jr565 said...
"But the fireman who has to put out the fire might himself die. And the neighborhs house might also go up in flames."
You are right. Throw everyone who grows or uses pot in jail. More no-knock raids. Make sure you are funding surveillance teams and snooping into everyones email, texts, and phone conversations.
More people have died erroneously in no-knock raids than in exploding basements due to open loop butane extraction. But it is the intentions that matter right? You are a good little statist.
JSD said...
"The same rules for distilling spirits should be applied to weed. All distilling takes place in federally bonded and controlled facilities. Distilling takes substantial capital investment and commitment to compliance with rules, standards and regulations. And guess what, the best bourbon in the world is being made and is available for sale at your corner liquor store. None of this is present in the current patchwork of states and its rag tag participants."
I am sure all big corporations and corrupt politicians would like to institute a system that favors big money and crony rule making too just like how the alcohol industry is set up.
Regulation does not create anything good or prevent anything bad. What it does add an extra charge to the person who is arrested when something bad happens.
He not only did something bad, he violated a regulation.
Big corporations, crony capitalism, corrupt politicians, conspiracy everywhere blah blah. I’ve had it with Libertarians, and their stupid theories. Mickey D’s can’t give away small toys that might choke children, but THC gum drops are OK? I'm all for legalization, but pizza shops have more rules and regulations than the weed shops. They’re selling a controlled substance for Christ sake; the last thing we need is the Trailer Park Boys operating a weed business. If you don’t have sufficient capital, legal or financing connections to be in business, then you shouldn’t be in business. Any business!
A great bottle of bourbon goes for less that $40 bucks. The script weed shops are selling weed at $20 a gram. So yeah, I’ll take a regulated industry any day.
A bit O/T I remember learning that Boulder had a problem its green space. It had issued bonds (since paid for by high real estate taxes) and used the proceeds to buy parcels of land to create the Gaia Protectorate belt around the Pearl Street epicenter of unicorn dust and tourist lattes. It then leased the parcels out; and some of the lessees had used them to run meth labs. When the violations were discovered (violently or otherwise) Boulder found itself owning a toxic waste dump.
Go unicorns.
@JSD
You don't know what you are talking about. But your ignorant rants make statists proud.
JSD @ 10:10
You know that no amount of regulation is going to prevent people from blowing themselves up on this way, right?
If anything the availability of cheap marijuana is going to exacerbate the the problem.
Remember!
If there is a market somebody will arrive to fill that market despite all the laws, regulations, and morals.
"Why is marijuana the only intoxicant in the history of the world without any downsides worth fretting about?"
Psychosis may or may not be worth fretting about. The cannabinoid receptors inside the hippocampus binding to THC and interfering with recollection of recent events may or may not be worth fretting about.
david7134 said...
Why do you have to go to a doctor to get what you need for any condition?
Successful rent-seeking by the AMA in the early 1900's.
Carl said...
Oh God. I have this big contraption in my kitchen that pumps methane
Google tells us the real home explosions in Grand-Junction - where a house actually blows up - were from propane, not that bastard gas, butane.
I am a prosecutor in Colorado and yes, we are charging these people with arson. They make youtube videos about making BHO (butane honey oil) because they are stupid. They are almost always high when making the BHO. Give a pothead an inch, he takes a mile. It's not enough that we legalized marijuana, now they have to try to get a bigger high. BHO can have as much as 85 percent THC (according to the training we just had on BHO) while regular "medical grade" pot has about 25-35 percent. Pot makes you stupid. Lots of high intensity pot makes you even more stupid. Then you blow up your house (and in one case kill your dog). Thankfully I don't think anyone's died yet but it's only a matter of time.
Achilles wrote:
You are right. Throw everyone who grows or uses pot in jail. More no-knock raids. Make sure you are funding surveillance teams and snooping into everyones email, texts, and phone conversations.
More people have died erroneously in no-knock raids than in exploding basements due to open loop butane extraction. But it is the intentions that matter right? You are a good little statist.
"No don't throw EVERYONE who grows pot in jail . First establish that its legal. If it is then throw those who are growing pot while not adhering to regulations in jail.
What are the requirements for making hash oil? At the very minimum it should involve a work place that passes enough inspections that it's not a fire hazard.
If you had a bar you'd need to meet all sorts of requirements to open shop.
There are occupancy rules, you can't lock certsin doors, their are zoning requirements.
Selling pot is no different.
Those pushing for legalization should recognize that we live in a society that has restrictions on selling. Even legal things.
If we assume that suddenly we dropped the drug war and let people start making meth, they'd still need to adhere to rules in conducting business.
meaning, they most likely couldn't legally cook in their own basement. And if they wanted to legally cook they'd need to have a stat of the art lab that had proper ventilation. And people would have to come in and inspect it. Govt people. Legalized means statism.
You don't get to legalize illicit drugs but then get to operate like you're some underground business and get to skirt all the rules that you think don't apply.
So in the case of selling cigarettes, we already have a legal market. And it doesn't involve selling loosies on the street.
In the case of legalized hash oil, it's goign to require businesses that have passed all inspection. And will not be done out of most people's basements.
Those who couldn't meet the requirements couldn't then still produce hash oil. Those thinking they want legalized drugs think it means they can then just make stuff from their house. nope.
Govt would be in your business even more. libertarians might call that statism.
I call it simply stating the facts of life.
Achilles, If you want to open a restaurant you will be inspected by the health dept. do you have a rodent problem. Are you refrigerating your food properly etc.
Everyone opening a restaurant knows this. It may be a restriction on some people actually opening a restaurant, since it might be too expensive. But that's the cost to get into business.
You can't possibly think that a restaurant woul have to jump through said hoops, but making hash oil in your basement would be completely unrestricted.
Quasi legal pot industry is in never never land. Right now, they don’t exist in the eyes of the Feds. If and when it does become legal, the USDA and FDA will have a lot to say about the business and its products. Will the allow pot in cookies, candy and soda pop? Will they allow butane as a processing chemical? I doubt it, but who knows. The feds are the six million pound gorilla. They write the rules and regulations of nearly every you eat and drink. I’ve seen the pot shops in Colorado and they are quaint. Tie dye dancing gummy bears. I don’t think the Feds like quaint.
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