Craig Spencer returned — by commercial airline — from his sojourn in Guinea where he treated ebola patients. He returned to the exquisitely crowded American island called Manhattan.
He didn't keep to himself within a small area, but hopped on the subway, went all the way to that other crowded island, the long one with the particularly crowded western end called Brooklyn. He went bowling. Going back to Manhattan, he opted for an Uber-cab. Thence, onward to an ambulance and to the storied Bellevue hospital, the oldest public hospital in America.
But NYC has been preparing for ebola we are told. The professionals know how to contain ebola and avoid contamination, even as Dr. Craig Spencer himself surely knew. He must have been so sure he got it right. Otherwise why would he have gotten on the subway and gone bowling?
Mayor Bill de Blasio reassured New York citizens: "Being on the same subway car or living near a person with Ebola does not in itself put someone at risk."
In itself.
I take Bill de Blasio to be an honest man. Something made him say those hedge words: in itself.
Now, the health department tells us, it is "actively trac[ing] all of the patient’s contacts to identify anyone who may be at potential risk." But what counts as a contact with potential risk? Not simply riding in the subway car or bowling in the same bowling alley, right? Because that's not enough to put someone at risk in itself. But Craig Spencer must have believed that he had done nothing that put himself at risk. Spencer's fiancée and 2 of his friends are under quarantine. That's the scope of the relevant potential risk. The taxi driver, we're told, isn't at risk.
The city's health commissioner says that Spencer was not at "a stage of disease that creates a risk of contagiousness" that night he went bowling. And: "We consider it extremely unlikely, the probability being close to nil, that there will be any problem related to his taking the subway system."
Close to nil.
They can't shut down the subway. Meanwhile, the bowling alley was closed last night. Nobody has to go bowling... ebowla-ing.
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This is not going to help the Democrats or reflect positively on Obama so it never happened and you are a terrible person for bringing it up.
I take Bill de Blasio to be an honest man.
He's among the slimiest of the cadre of slimy politicians that constitute the 21st century Democrat party. Would you care to rethink your position on his honesty?
I have been scouring (well, lets saying loitering on) the internet in the expectation that someone would use a variant of ebowla-ing, and it seems that you are the first. I didn't read the NY Post yet, though.
This is why we should close down travel from West Africa - Stupidity and Ignorance. I've actually been reflecting on Eric Duncan and now believe he might not have known he was infected. If you escaped from Liberia to get to the USA for better Ebola treatment, wouldn't you have told the hospital you think you have Ebola when you show up the first time?
And here is this guy - an advanced degree does not guarantee any common sense (which I recently saw described as "rare enough to be a superpower"). Really? Not just in the area but treating active Ebola patients and you could not hold out in your crib for three weeks? What a putz. He may not have been infectious but a lot of people are going to have sleepless nights due to his careless actions.
You would think as a doctor he would have had an idea of his exposure risk and he might have even had an inkling about a particular incident in Africa that could have led to an infection. Unless the virus is actually more contagious than thought.
What sorts of precautions do Doctors Without Borders take? Are they wearing hazmat suits? Was he following all the protocols?
Early reports said that he began to experience symptoms Tuesday, which make his recent behavior very puzzling and seemingly irresponsible. But then they backtracked a bit, saying that he only felt slightly lethargic and had been monitoring his body temperature. I feel like someone's lying.
God save us from experts. (Craig Spencer himself being a sublime case in point. Lots of points to him for bravery and compassion for wanting to help in Africa, but a nearly infinite number against for sheer hubris.)
I take Bill de Blasio to be an honest man. Something made him say those hedge words: in itself.
The something was not honesty, it was political calculation. He doesn't want to risk saying flat-out that you can't catch it from being on the same subway car, then have a patient turn up whose contact was from the subway.
GRW3, my personal theory on Duncan is he was afraid he might be at risk, but when the "experts" at the ER brushed off the fact that he'd been in Africa he gladly accepted that as good news.
Fear is the mind-killer.
After Obama saying that Ebola infection reaching US shores was unlikely, we have had not one, but two independent introductions.
Obama rolled snake eyes.
Hey, New York City elected a communist Mayor. Enjoy !
the probability being close to nil
Multiply "the probability being close to nil" by 10 million souls and you get more than a few infections.
If I were the GF, I'd be seriously worried about my exchanges of bodily fluids with my Doc BF...
I take Bill de Blasio to be an honest man.
Meaning he believes his own bullsit?
I have several friends in NYC, and not conservatives either. Based on what they say about his campaign and subsequent time in office, I don't think he could be characterized as an honest man. Look at the backroom deal for the horse stables for example.
His certainty that he was not at risk (and not a risk to others) really struck me. I wondered if he was just an individual who was particularly able to let no doubt in, or whether his conduct speaks to widespread complacency in the social group of elites who are in charge of managing the situation. In other words, in his complacent belief that he was a zero risk, was he a lone wolf or one of many in the ebola-management-complex who are seeing things as so low risk that virtually no precautions are to be taken.
Whom will ebowla strike next? Whom will it spare?
New Yorkers will shrug it off and continue to be relentlessly hip, douchebag progressives. There simply will not be enough cool people dressed in black to warrant the relocation to Des Moines.
Same subway my son takes homes every night. Have not heard what restaurant he went to that night but right across the street from the bowling alley is a great place for BBQ called Mable's Smokehouse.
I hear they are "sanitizing" the bowling alley, just hoping they don't need to sanitize Mable's!
I made a comment about travel ban couple of days ago where I said visa restrictions for the coming from the affected countries. Since we can' stop these doctors and others from going there, I said they would behave in a responsible manner when they come back. So that didn't happen. Now what?
In a related note, Kent Brnatly was on Greta and he said he didn't know where he contracted it -- he guessed it might have been in the ER where he was not suited. So when do you suit up and when do you not?
It seems we have transitioned from panic to snark.
It's progress, I guess.
This is why we should close down travel from West Africa - Stupidity and Ignorance.
Or force quarantine, for doctors who are too stupid or too self centered to realize they should do it on their own.
Honestly. Bowling.
Mayor Bill de Blasio reassured New York citizens: "Being on the same subway car or living near a person with Ebola does not in itself put someone at risk."
In itself. At least he added a caveat, because it's the shedding of the virus onto you that puts you at risk, which you can get by being near a patient with Ebola! Although I think its unlikely people will pick it up from these places before the patient is showing any symptoms, it is certainly not impossible.
Especially for people who are living with someone with ebola. Why they would even add that part in is beyond me, those are the folks at higher risk!
At least the poor minimum-wage kid at the bowling alley who cleans the bathrooms now knows who was responsible for the explosive diarrhea on the walls and ceiling.
Passing ebola on is rape, involving penetration as it does.
I would like to know why the Doc returned from Guinea when he did? Did his contract or whatever expire or did he abruptly leave West Africa because of some incident that scared him? How did he convince his fiancee that he/she were at no risk? His actions, timing and attitude are questionable. Doctors Without Borders better understand that the rules apply to them no matter how noble their actions are. Those actions have consequences.
David Hampton said...
"I would like to know why the Doc returned from Guinea when he did?"
He was sick of ebola.
All the de Blasios of this world and ebola--whistling past the graveyard they are..
The cable shows ran arrogant talking head after talking head that just repeated a strange mantra that went, " since this is New York City we perfectly use superior ways that are not like the vast ignorant boondocks. We are far superior at training and following protocols and always have been."
It was like a regional pride show.
If PR like that that is all they've got, Ebola will win.
phantommut said...
Fear is the mind-killer.
10/24/14, 7:37 AM
Nice Dune reference...
The family Thomas Duncan stayed with didn't contract Ebola, I doubt the subway riders or bowlers are at risk. However, it seems like common sense that a doctor returning from Africa after treating Ebola patients should isolate himself, more to prevent panic than anything else.
As has been noted, the biggest sympton of ebola is a desire to travel in confined spaces.
I take Bill de Blasio to be an honest man
Facts not in evidence there.
"Being on the same subway car or living near a person with Ebola does not in itself put someone at risk."
As long as NOTHING goes wrong, you're safe. And, hey, WE are the government. We don't screw shit up. And people don't do dumb shit all of the time.
"Whom will ebowla strike next? Whom will it spare?"
Strong work!
Now the New York pedestrian has to evaluate the diarrhea splattered on the sidewalk: is it typical run-of-the-mill homeless-guy diarrhea or is it dangerous ebola diarrhea? City Life.
This is the second incidence of a doctor exposed to Ebola not quarantining properly. (Nancy Snyderman was the first.) If doctors cannot do it, you can't expect citizens to. It will be cold and flu season shortly-some future patient zero is going to think he has the flu, not Ebola...
Quote NOT heard from Swaggy Smiles:
"I think it's fair to say that Ebola hero acted stupidly."
Soon, we will have an Ebola outbreak involving tens or hundreds of people here in the US. This is why the politicians are hedging. Too bad they can't bring themselves to be fully candid about what they know and what they don't.
What did he roll?
Doctors Without Borders is a political organization that provides medical care. Be wary of people who want to save the world. I’ll be very curious about this guy’s “story”. I honestly don't understand why people go half way around the world to help people they don’t know (and will never know), when you have family, friends and loved ones you could comfort and benefit.
If you don't get why I wrote "I take Bill de Blasio to be an honest man," read it in context and consider the possibility of humor.
(Sigh.)
I saw parts of the press conference last night. After everyone seated at the table was done congratulating each other on what a great job each other was doing; and how lucky New York was to have such astute public servants, I was starting to wonder if it was ebola that had come to New York City, or or the 2022 Summer Olympics.
Later in the press conference, the NYC Public Health Director uttered these words:
"There is no reason to be concerned."
So, there you have it. If, for some reason, you have some sort of "concern" over ebola coming to NYC, you're being unreasonable.
he might have even had an inkling about a particular incident in Africa that could have led to an infection. Unless the virus is actually more contagious than thought.
It is more contagious than you thought. It's not like you need a needle stick to get it. You can't see the virus and if it gets onto your skin you can get it. TWIV had an explanation the other day that though they say 'abrasions and mucus membrances' for practical purposes your skin has tiny abrasions all over the place that you cannot see.
Nobody has been treating ebola longer, more efficiently, and understands ebola better than Doctors Without Borders.
They have the very best equipment, staff, procedures and knowledge to treat ebola.
9 of their doctors have died from ebola.
Thank you Browndog. Exactly.
Geraldo, after attacking people for wanting a travel ban as fear monger quickly changed tune when doctor came to NY, his hometown.
You can only duck common sense for so long. You can only protect your political interests attacking people who simply are trying to find best way to not have this spread, because you don't want democrats to get bad press for so long,
Apparently there's some magical moment when he crosses over from being infected to being contagious. That magical moment is when he enters the isolation unit at Bellevue. Prior to that moment it's no big deal.......I live in NYC and catching Ebola doesn't make it into my top ten worries. Still, with a few more Ebola cases here in the city, I would be reluctant to ride the subway or have sex with strangers.....I think some people are more susceptible to infections than others, and some carriers are more virulent than others. Tic tic.
"Dr. Klain, call your office"
Ebola is hard. Its in the body fluids. But it builds up to high levels in saliva when you get sick. He was sick yesterday. He went to a bowling alley. And drove in a cab. His girlfriend is now in quarantine. Will all these people he potentially exposed get sick? no, but now we have to chase people around and try to figure put who he was in contact with and then monitor them. We have to see who the girl friend was in contact with. We have to close down the bowling alley.
When, as soon as it became apparent thst this guy handled Ebola patients he should have been quarantined like his girlfriend is now.
The problem with the "we don't need travel bans" argument is that you have to treat everyone who might come in contact with an Ebola patient as if they might gat Ebola. And therefore have to quarantine Duncan's family for three weeks in their apartment. Yeah its great that they tested negative. But they had to wait 21 days to find out. As did the rest of.
And now we need to wait 21 days to see if this new doctors girlfriend will test positive. Now we have to find the people he may have been in contact with and see if they might be exposed. And if so have to then potentially contact the people THEY have been in contact with.
When if you had better monitoring at airports and quarantining procedures for people handling Ebola patients you wouldn't have to deal with any of it. Since you would have blocked it before this became worse.
At the very minimum we should tell doctors don't go bowling for 30 days if you have contact with Ebola patients as a doctor.
Yes they say 21 days, but give it a few extra days just to be sure.
The semi learned people in Texas are using Tabasco sauce as a training tool for Hospital personnel in the donning and doffing of hazmat
The training room place is salted with Tabasco droplets. If the trainee feels a hot pain from a touch of the capsicum hot sauce on skin, then they are infected.
Nothing to see here. Move along. Vote for your favorite Democrat, you'll get free stuff! Vote Democrat, win valuable prizes! Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.
The way to stop Ebola should not be to chase Ebola around NYC. It should be don't let Ebola
Get into NYC. Or if its here, don't let it leave hospital and go on tour of NY while feverish.
Lets have the dems go to the bowling alley and do a press conference there to convince us its safe. Sit in the same seat he sat in. And then let's monitor them for 21 days to see whether they get it. So they can see what they are allowing people to be put through since they can't take a threat seriously. And give them a copy of The Hot Zone.
If the doc was sick a showing symptoms Ebola will be in the saliva, not just the blood. So, if he coughs it may not become airborne but he would still be spreading droplets when he, for example, coughs.
Dr. Spencer, putz that he is, might as well have spent his med school tuition on booze & chicks for all the good it's going to do him now. Would you let this guy be your doctor?
It's not that I'd be worried about catching Ebola from him after his recovery. It's that I would doubt his ability at logical reasoning. You don't have to be very bright to figure out that the worst case scenario if he was wrong about the state of his infection was well-nigh apocalyptic in scope, but yet he had to go bowling!
As a clinical physician, he's done. he can probably do research or work for an insurance company, but as a physician in a hospital setting, stick a fork in him!
Where the hell is Obama's Ebola swat team? Why hasn't this patient been transported to one of the 4 designated hospitals for Ebola?
@Diogenes of Sinope/
Speaking of Obama's Ebola Swat team, lets remember the pathetic "ready in 72 hours" bit. 72 hrs!!! THREE GODDAMN DAYS???!!! Anybody think this might be a tad tardy? More like 12 hours MAX would be more reasonable with all equip and aircraft dedicated and pre-positioned and all personnel on 1 hour recall.
With leisurely response times like 72 hrs no wonder we're losing the "War on Ebola."
"Will the real Dr. Fedderman please report to neurosurgery immediately?"
This is obviously a joke since the doctor came in to NY from west Africa through JFK. They have screeners there who take people's temperatures. He was fine he passed.
He does not have, could not have, Ebola. This is some sort of community test exercise.
Because we can't stop people coming from west Africa because that is illogical and only makes it worse.
Can we put a travel ban on travel from NYC?
Face it, people. If you live east of the Mississippi, you're already fucked. And look for Obama to start another looooong vacation in Hawaii real soon.
Not having searched today, what news is there, other than the last news from the mayor of Dallas, that the Duncan family is fine? Other than hearing some gibberish of suing the world has the family been seen or heard from since their isolation began?
Plus I got news for you Sunshine, Bellevue is a pit. It is a public city hospital and my cousin has sent armed guards to take people out of that joint. If Ebola is walking the wards on 1st Avenue I would definitely not like the sound of that.
No, it is not time to be panicked, it is time, it is past time, to be deeply concerned-and to stop conflating deep concern with panic for political purposes!
And to take proactive measures along the lines of the precautionary principle that's a good enough reason to close down Western civilization and industry but apparently isn't good enough to justify the obvious natural normal necessary things that should be done in this case.
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