"I lost two dogs in the last month. I want her off of here, or I'm going to leave; or I want you to stop the plane."
Said the lady on the plane, whose crazy argument worked to force the plane down.
What was the relevance of the dead dogs? To her, I mean. I'm interested in bad arguments. I have a tag charming bad logic, but it's not quite right here, obviously, since everyone on the plane had their time massively wasted by this woman who must have seriously believed in the profundity of her special need.
२ सप्टेंबर, २०१४
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"Stop the plane" is an interesting phrase, given that if the plane literally stopped it would fall from the sky.
You notice this hasn't happened on any Southwest flights? Perhaps people are expecting too much from the old luxury airlines.
I will guess that the woman sleeping on the tray table (who can do that?) had popped an Ambien.
If it were my airline, my short-term solution would be to buy plenty of knee-defenders, perhaps with the Company logo on them.
Glue them onto every seat. That would surely cost less than diverting flights.
Those who want to recline can just pay for more expensive seats; it's all too obvious that there's no room to recline anymore in the cheap-seats section.
(A longer-term answer might be to re-engineer the seats to work like a "wall-hugger" recliner: when the seatback goes down, your seat bottom moves forward, thereby decreasing the recliner's own legroom.)
Oh hell no. Try that knee defender bullshit on me. There's gonna be issues. YOU buy the bigger seat asshole.
I and all the others are playing by the rules.
The great thing about flying is it's really cheap, but there are trade offs. You got a problem, drive.
When someone says they don't care about the consequences,nth at gives the air crew license to stow her in the hold. What a dangerously entitled monster this woman is. Buy first class next time, snowflake.
They should have given her a parachute and tossed her off the plane.
Peter wrote:
Those who want to recline can just pay for more expensive seats; it's all too obvious that there's no room to recline anymore in the cheap-seats section.
Why is it that the recliners have to be the ones who bend and not those who are unreasonably refusing to allow people to recline?
Brando wrote:
When someone says they don't care about the consequences,nth at gives the air crew license to stow her in the hold. What a dangerously entitled monster this woman is. Buy first class next time, snowflake.
Next time she buys a plane ticket she should be charged the cost of diverting the plane.
Actually, I have slept with my head on the tray table a couple of times, no Ambien needed. I would imagine it was quite startling and may have even been painful when the person in front leaned their seat back, but oh well, find another way to catch some ZZZ's.
I was wondering about the knitting needles thing myself, because I saw a sweet old thing with them on a flight a couple of weeks ago. I have been flying since the elegant 60's, and am becoming increasingly irritated at the rules and regulations designed to keep us "safe". I am a fairly small person and the size of the seating space doesn't adversely affect me, but I resent having to maneuver my personal toiletries into a tiny plastic bag when I can think of many other ways to achieve the safety of the flying public.
I crochet much better than I knit, but I'm thinking of including those pointy little knitting needles in the terrible case I need to do what our feckless government refuses to. They are longer than the sharpened pencils I carry.
There is only one kind of "fellow passenger" we should be having altercations with, and it's not the rude ones. I only hope that "fighting spirit" appears when and if it is ever really needed again...and hopefully it never will be.
Maybe the lady needed a coffee nap.
Hey, if you want to recline, buy a more expensive seat. Fuck all those midgets who think that tall people should pay more.
Don't fly unless you really, really have to!
You notice this hasn't happened on any Southwest flights? Perhaps people are expecting too much from the old luxury airlines.
Yet.
Still, the thing about Southwest is that most of the seats are the same distance apart. Only the exit rows are wider. And, you get those by boarding first (after the handicapped, who aren't allowed to sit in them - first normal boarder gives his boarding pass to the flight attendant to signal normal boarding, which means that people can now sit in those rows).
I hit almost 100 flights a year on SWA a couple of years ago, between work and traveling back to CO to see my kid every other weekend, and was often one of the first to board, and got used to the exit row. But, the rest of the seats aren't that bad. But, then, I have recently flown on Delta and American, and they do change the distance between the seats, making them closer together as you get to the rear of the plane. Also, they tend to be harder. The better seats, with more legroom go to their frequent fliers and those who pay for them. And, I can attest that the cattle car seating on those airlines is far less comfortable than the regular Southwest seating (though their premier coach seating seems better). The whole thing is a scam, because these airlines compete on price with their cattle car seating, then work to get you to upgrade (for a fee, of course). I have little doubt that United is similar, though I haven't flown them for a decade or so, once SWA started flying where I wanted to go.
A few days back there was a lengthy comment thread regarding a man using a "knee defender" to disable the recline feature of the seat in front of him.
It has now come to light that the man was seated in United's "economy plus" section. So he already had more legroom than regular coach. Rather than some poor guy "defending" his knees, this is looking more like someone with a my way or the highway attitude.
Copied this from the
First day of school post.
I read all the tall people's complaints about people reclining their seats. But they can purchase first class business class or economy plus. There's a solution if this bothers you so much.
I'd take their bitching more seriously if I didn't have my seat behind them when they insist on standing through an entire concert or sporting event. Even standing, I'm still trying to look around not over them. I have no option to avoid this ahead of time. We have third row seats at Arrowhead and even the first row people sometimes stand all game long.
Look, life is full of tradeoffs. Going through it angry that you don't always get your way is no way to go through life.
BTW, It's been years since I've seen a coach seat that could recline as far as the one in the "file photo" in Althouse's link.
Put these j****o***s on the do not fly list. I have work to do.
I don't fly much. How much more is it (percent wise) on average to get a seat with what was traditional leg room?
I disagree with those who say you have no right to recline your seat, and you should buy a more expensive seat if you want more room.
Here's the way I see it. The airline is responsible for the design of the plane: They bought it. The airline sells you a ticket for a seat that is designed to recline. If you choose to exercise the recline function of your seat, you have a right to do so: You paid for it. (The passenger who wanted to nap on her tray table doesn't have the same claim, because the tray table is not represented as a sleeping device.)
Now, rights aren't everything. There's courtesy and concern for others, for example. In the narrow confines of the typical plane on which I fly, I almost NEVER recline my seat if someone is sitting behind. If I do recline, it's only a slight recline to ease my back on a long flight. But that's not because I don't have a right to do so. It's because I'm such a nice guy.
Since she doesn't care about the consequences, give her some.
Send her a bill for the diversion, and put her on the No-Fly list.
I bet she really does care....
Those who mostly object to the recliners are business travelers, men and women with laptops on the tray or on their laps.
They are, by the way, the people paying $700 for that flight that the recliner bought for $69 eight months ago. The guys making it possible for the rest to fly cheaply. Remember that.
"Now, rights aren't everything. There's courtesy and concern for others, for example. In the narrow confines of the typical plane on which I fly, I almost NEVER recline my seat if someone is sitting behind. If I do recline, it's only a slight recline to ease my back on a long flight. But that's not because I don't have a right to do so. It's because I'm such a nice guy."
But that's it. "Nobody" argues you don't.have the "right". The question is whether or not you care about the person behind you.
If you don't have clear property rights, you end up with violence.
The Coase theorem says it doesn't matter what the rule is - right to recline, or right to have the dude not recline - as long as it is clear and enforced.
How can you say, "everyone on the plane had their time massively wasted"?
In English, as in all other 7 or 8 languages I know, one says, "everyone on the plane had his time massively wasted."
A couple of weeks ago I flew 1000 miles to Milwaukee and another 1000 miles back West for $208 including fees, plus parking of about $38. Frontier. From DIA you can use the A Gate security instead of the normal security, and no train from the terminal to the Gates just a walkway.
Sweet.
No complaints, and I always compliment the pilot on the landing with a quick "nice landing" on my way out.
What are the chances of getting the inconvenienced passengers together as a class to sue the woman for the monetary value of their lost time and aggravation?
Here's the way I see it. The airline is responsible for the design of the plane: They bought it.
This should be remembered. They specified down to the inch what seats to put in, and the distance between them, which is why you can have luxurious seating on one airline and cattle car seating on another, on the same model of plane. And, they do it to maximize revenue. The cattle car seats are close together because they can sell more tickets that way. And, are often pretty hard, because they can get them closer together. If the seats are too close together for them to recline without hitting the person behind you, it was because the airline specified that they be that close together. And, likely, the seats further forward, even in coach, are not as close together, or as uncomfortable.
"Here's the way I see it. The airline is responsible for the design of the plane: They bought it."
So what genius attorney (from what school) determined for the airlines the legality of their seating? How much was spent anticipating future lawsuits, and how much do I pay now each ticket for this pondering of future lawsuits?
Where's mine? Where's my reparations for the money spent by corporations on expenditures that were related to corrupt government regulations on attorneys that I pay for through higher prices?
Some bastards see this as positive externalities not system-murdering fraud.
What are the arguments used by the airlines for their seats now, compared to when the seats were being designed, approved, and paid for?
How did lawyers change these arguments by looking at them, and how does this perpetuate permanent lawfare?
Any attorney who writes a false statement ought be disbarred.
They chose, like Freud taught us about words, to use exact, precise, specific words.
And if those words are false, then they designed them to be false for their own damn profit to the exclusion of the greater good.
And, for the record, don't anyone even think of claiming lawyers aren't all-knowledgeable experts who know exactly what they are doing.
They are and will remain so despite your loudest protestations to the contrary.
And, for the record, don't anyone even think of claiming lawyers aren't all-knowledgeable experts who know exactly what they are doing.
I can say personally that lawyers are all-knowledgeable experts in pretty much everything, as well as being the most charming, and wonderful people imaginable. And, I think that the rest of the lawyers here would agree.
I blame Jimmy Carter. Bring back regulated airline fares and let the trade that use to travel by buss go Greyhound. Flying was so much nicer in the 70's.
The few times I'm forced to travel cattle car coach and some clown push the seat all the way back and hurt my knees I just simply shove the seat forward. Their comfort doesn't trump my pain. Never had a problem with that but whenever possible I fly business class and always try to get the first row if possible but even first in some carriers like US Air can be a pain in the knees if I get the last row in first class.
If only that broad trying to sleep with her head on the tray table had been a guy trying to use his laptop on one.
For an example.
If only that broad trying to knit had been a broad trying to nap.
For an example.
Man, the stories I could tell you. Seriously.
Some of you might remember that I spent some time as a so-called "road warrior," consulting in various parts of the country, requiring airline travel.
All I can say is: LOL.
And also that what is lacking in both imagination and really good anecdotes is made up for in, um, surgically precise strategy designed to prop up, um, generalized tactics.
So glad my must-fly days have been over for a while.
So here's just a taste:
Can you imagine being in the middle seat between two big guys (who, of course, claimed two arm-rests each, leaving the middle gal with -0-), and one of them having the gall to reach over and put down *my* tray table to accommodate his drink and snack [his tray table was taken up with his laptop, on account of, apparently, his lap to him not being commodious enough to accommodate, y'know, a laptop] since, as it was firmly "explained" to me, I wasn't using it, anyway.
Well!
Dang. Selfish, aggressive, self-serving, space-hogging assholes come in all shapes, types, sizes and sorts.
(And, yes, it is true, that I have not told the whole story.
It wouldn't make that guy look better, is a statement you ought trust.)
I kid you not.
"I hit almost 100 flights a year on SWA a couple of years ago"
Whoa, Bruce: what ghastly sin or crime did you commit in a former life?
Bruce:
It's not just lawyers; everyone agrees you're all totally awesome. That's why we want to hang you all from lamp posts; so everyone can look up to you better.
;-)
The story buries the lede, which is that the flight was diverted just because two passengers had a dust-up.
This is part of the security theater of the last dozen years in which we're all supposed to feel safer whenever airlines do stupid things. No doubt one or both passengers will be charged with federal crimes.
This issue can be solved by the airline, which surely wastes more money diverting flights and providing an unpleasant experience for passengers than they would if they had more legroom in the first place. Clearly by designing seats to recline, the airlines are saying to passengers they may use the seats in that manner (except during takeoffs and landings).
Considering that, the anti-recliners should make their feelings known to the airlines that they refuse to buy a seat that is behind a reclin-able seat. Boycott those seats, and the airlines will have to charge less for them, selling to people who aren't bothered by recliners, and losing money in the process. Maybe that sort of pressure will encourage the redesign of the plane.
But it makes no sense to expect people in front of you to not recline when they are clearly allowed to do so, any more than you should expect the person at the window to keep the shade up (or down), or not use their reading light, or read SkyMall.
Yes, there is common courtesy, and considering all such passengers have made the decision to cramp up in coach to save money there is an expectation that we behave in a civilized manner--ask your neighbor politely if something is bothering you, and consider whether your needs to recline (or have someone not recline) are greater than your neighbors' conflicting needs. The people in these recent stories are clearly uncivilized boobs who have decided they're more important than someone else, and deserve to be put on no-fly lists. But until airlines change their policies, the rest of us are going to have to deal with one another.
Yes, you may have the "right" to recline your seat back into me.
But you will unavoidably feel my knees in your back.
And when anyone in the row behind you wants to exit they inevitably have to grab your seat in order to maneuver around it.
So when I politely asked you not to recline your seat, pardner, I was really thinking about your comfort.
"Why is it that the recliners have to be the ones who bend and not those who are unreasonably refusing to allow people to recline?"
Why is it unreasonable to object to someone taking away your comfort and seating space by reclining themselves into your lap?
I fault the airlines, as people will always be inconsiderate and selfish jerks. The airlines still place reclining seats in their cabins, yet no longer provide sufficient room for passengers to recline without essentially pinning the passengers behind them in place. They airlines should anticipate the inconvenience and discomfort--and conflict--this will cause, and take steps to prevent it.
When I first started flying--in the 70s--airline cabins were roomy and comfortable, and even in coach, there was ample seating room: the seats themselves were far less narrow than today, and the rows were spaced farther apart. One could recline one's seat without lying on the lap of the person behind you.
No more. In order to maximize their use of space (and, thereby, revenue), the airlines have made seats smaller and space the rows much closer together, to fit more people onto each flight. I don't necessarily fault the airlines for trying to defray their increasing costs by maximizing the number of seats per flight, but they should stop providing recliner seats. Given the lack of space between rows, it is impossible for one passenger to recline his seat without stealing away the negligible space available to the passenger seated behind.
I find if you want to watch the tv on the seat in front of you, but that person has reclined, you have to recline at least slightly to view the tv. It's kind of the domino affect after that.
it's very simple. Put a bag over both of their heads and tell them that the first 1 to quit gets the bag off.
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