Katherine Culliton-Gonzalez, director of voter protection with the Advancement Project... "We think of this as a very mistaken decision... There's going to be disenfranchisement in November. (Republicans) are manipulating the system for their own political gain."...
२६ सप्टेंबर, २०१४
7th Circuit declines to rehear the Wisconsin vote ID case.
A decision is being made about whether to ask the Supreme Court to review the case.
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Doesn't early voting and absentee ballots for any reason and same day voting all support the same claims from Ms. Culliton-Gonzales but for the Democrats?
I remain puzzled at the ID issue. Are not those arguing against it, those who claim it is a voter repression method, insisting loudly that their cohorts are too lazy or too stupid to get the ID while their opponents, not being lazy or stupid, can get them readily ?
If they ask the Supreme Court to review the 7th Circuit order on an emergency basis, they should beware what they wish for. SCOTUS hasn't been receptive to the notion that a state law requiring that some ID be produced at the voting place violates any federal constitutional guarantee.
The requirement to show an ID is so ubiquitous today as to be part of the general culture, and not just at airports. In NYC every office building now requires a visitor to show ID, as do most Govt buildings. Even the SDNY courthouse now has a sign at the entrance saying an ID is required to enter (not always enforced, in my experience), even though all criminal cases must be open to the public under the Sixth Amendment except in the rarest circumstances.
"We think of this as a very mistaken decision," she said. "There's going to be disenfranchisement in November. (Republicans) are manipulating the system for their own political gain."
Says the lady who through multiple legal challenges has blocked implementation of the Law for three years and multiple elections...
Listen, please don't try to understand the actual problems with a Voter ID law. It's just one of those issues which is always going to be viewed as a Republican War on minorities, the poor, the elderly, (fill in your preferred victim status) with Democrats using to tout their advocacy for the same.
Posner voted to take it, interesting.
Remember, this has NOTHING to do with keeping Democratic blocs from voting. You need an ID to rent a movie!
interesting that the groups who complain about this can find volunteers to go register people to vote and drive them to polling places. But they can't drive the people that they ostensibly help to the DMV to get an ID?
garage mahal said...
Remember, this has NOTHING to do with keeping Democratic blocs from voting.
Democrat Party blocs like the dead and non-citizens you mean.
Oh and please throw out the example of the Walker voter who allegedly voted 5 times, as you've done before. Because people like me don't give a shit which party the vote fraud comes from, we want it prevented as much as possible
garage mahal said...
Remember, this has NOTHING to do with keeping Democratic blocs from voting.
Unless you consider dead people and fictional characters Democratic blocs, which, in all fairness, they have long been.
"I remain puzzled at the ID issue. Are not those arguing against it, those who claim it is a voter repression method, insisting loudly that their cohorts are too lazy or too stupid to get the ID while their opponents, not being lazy or stupid, can get them readily ?"
This argument doesn't faze them a bit. In the 2000 election, their big argument was they were too stupid to read the butterfly ballot. People went on national television and proclaimed "I am stupid".
Remember, this has NOTHING to do with keeping Democratic blocs from voting. You need an ID to rent a movie!
Well, "felons" and "illegal immigrants" ARE key Democratic voting blocs, so I guess in a sense this is aimed at preventing Democratic blocs from voting.
But it isn't "disenfranchising" them, because they weren't enfranchised in the first place. :)
You need an ID to rent a movie!
Geez, not, in like, ten years! Ever hear of RedBox? How about NetFlix? And you say conservatives are stuck in the past?
Jim Crow is alive and well in Wisconsin,...
It bears repeating....
1) Flood the country will illegal immigrants
2) Require no ID to vote
This is the Democratsic plan for a permanent majority.
Well, "felons" and "illegal immigrants" ARE key Democratic voting blocs, so I guess in a sense this is aimed at preventing Democratic blocs from voting.
Keep telling yourself pretty little lies instead of admitting truth.
The state of Wisconsin could not prove one instance of voter fraud in court that would have been prevented by photo ID. Not one. And photo ID doesn't prevent "felons" and "illegals" from voting.
Are conservatives bloody liars or just grossly misinformed morons? I'm going with bloody liar in your case.
Judge Hamilton was appointed by Obama to the 7th Circuit, not Bush.
Garage,
In this case, the plaintiffs had to prove the Voter ID requirement had a disparate impact on minorities. The plaintiffs failed. The state didn't have to prove anything.
Judge Rovner was appointed to the 7th Circuit by H.W. Bush
garage mahal said...
Remember, this has NOTHING to do with keeping Democratic blocs from voting. You need an ID to rent a movie!
One thing is certain. It's going to put a crimp on your election day activities.
"And photo ID doesn't prevent "felons" and "illegals" from voting."
Plesae explain, in your own words, how this is true.
Reciting talking points from OFA or MS-J is not proof of your assertion.
Also, "The state of Wisconsin could not prove one instance of voter fraud in court that would have been prevented by photo ID."
So until the the state catches someone illegally voting, there isn't a need for a law preventing someone from using a method to illegally vote? Do you realize how much of the leftist legal wish list this logic invalidates?
What you seem to be saying is: "There's no evidence it will work, so just forget it". Is this what you mean? You realize that if leftists had followed this line of critical thinking, we wouldn't be saddled with Obamacare right now, right?
What she really means is "We need all those phony votes to win elections and it's not fair if we don't win because we are the good people. Now shut up"
In this case, the plaintiffs had to prove the Voter ID requirement had a disparate impact on minorities
It was proven in court. The all Republican, 3 judge panel didn't even consider the evidence from Judge Adelman's ruling.
"garage mahal":
Have you found an attorney who will represent you against those despicable middle school coaches?
It is voter suppression not to allow Democrats to cheat.
GArage:
"Are conservatives bloody liars or just grossly misinformed morons?"
Apparently they are able to get voter IDs even if they are, even if they are stupid and lazy and poor and uneducated and without cars or maps of bus routes or live out in the sticks or are blind or bedridden or victims of thousands of years of abuse. Republicans can somehow get voter IDs.
Democrats not so much.
"It was proven in court." -- "garage mahal"
The definitions of "it" and "proven" remain elusive.
No self-respecting liberal judge could logically oppose positive identification after heralding the virtues of the "progressive" South African constitution.
With a $3 trillion welfare economy, there is no reasonable excuse for any American to be homeless or indigent, or remain unidentified. Still, positive identification is only the first step in mitigating disenfranchisement.
Here in Washington State the Democrats got ahead of this issue. They don't care if you're an illegal immigrant. As long as you declare yourself a resident of the state, you can get a drivers license.
There is an entire cottage industry here of providing addresses to people from New York and New Jersey so they can drive and work in those states.
Plus, in King County, its all absentee ballots. No more in person voting.
Those clever Dems!
The requirement to show an ID is so ubiquitous today as to be part of the general culture
The issue isn't about "an" ID, rather instead very particular types of ID. Specifically, the Republicans wrote the law to favor those who traditionally vote their way (concealed carry permit is allowed) and against those who traditionally vote for Democrats (most student IDs currently used in the state are not allowed).
Add in the fact that a lot of black elderly don't have legal birth certificates as well as the closure or reduced hours of DMV offices in heavily Democrat area, and this looks more about voter suppression than concern over voter integrity.
The state of Wisconsin could not prove one instance of voter fraud in court that would have been prevented by photo ID. Not one. And photo ID doesn't prevent "felons" and "illegals" from voting.
2 things:
1. It doesn't matter whether Wisconsin can or cannot prove prior fraud; if you have a state-issued ID, then it's nearly impossible to vote more than once. Prevention is the key.
2. Photo ID CAN prevent felons and illegals from voting, if they don't have state-issued ID's because they're, well, felons and illegals.
So basically, you've made assertions not backed up by facts.
In which state do you live in Callahan where felons aren't allowed to drive?
madisonfella said...
The requirement to show an ID is so ubiquitous today as to be part of the general culture
The issue isn't about "an" ID, rather instead very particular types of ID. Specifically, the Republicans wrote the law to favor those who traditionally vote their way (concealed carry permit is allowed) and against those who traditionally vote for Democrats (most student IDs currently used in the state are not allowed).
9/26/14, 2:19 PM
You mean to say, in a blatant act of discrimination, they require the voter to use ID that explicitly proves the voter is an official "resident" of the state? They can use just any old identification? Those BASTERDS!
They can use just any old identification?
should read
They can't use just any old identification?
2. Photo ID CAN prevent felons and illegals from voting, if they don't have state-issued ID's because they're, well, felons and illegals.
You already need an ID to register to vote. Photo ID stops in-person voter fraud and that's it.
"The issue isn't about "an" ID, rather instead very particular types of ID. Specifically, the Republicans wrote the law to favor those who traditionally vote their way (concealed carry permit is allowed) and against those who traditionally vote for Democrats (most student IDs currently used in the state are not allowed).
Add in the fact that a lot of black elderly don't have legal birth certificates as well as the closure or reduced hours of DMV offices in heavily Democrat area, and this looks more about voter suppression than concern over voter integrity"
Bollocks. The concealed carry permit process has established your residency (and much else besides) whereas anyone who's a student can get a student ID, resident or not.
Elderly blacks have a high incidence of lacking birth certficates? Were they born in slavery? Typical white liberal bullshit exploiting and denigrating Black Americans.
"The issue isn't about "an" ID, rather instead very particular types of ID. Specifically, the Republicans wrote the law to favor those who traditionally vote their way (concealed carry permit is allowed) and against those who traditionally vote for Democrats (most student IDs currently used in the state are not allowed).
Add in the fact that a lot of black elderly don't have legal birth certificates as well as the closure or reduced hours of DMV offices in heavily Democrat area, and this looks more about voter suppression than concern over voter integrity."
But black Republicans and student Republicans can easily get voter ID.
"a lot of black elderly don't have legal birth certificates "
ok Madisonfella..er Inga..I'll bite. Define, in percentage terms the numbers we are talking about. Also, please define how elderly they have to be to not have a legal birth certificate. I might've believed this 80 years ago, or even 50, but in 2014?
Also as I mentioned up thread, there are " a lot" of left leaning organizations that routinely provide transportation to polling places on election day. Why don't those organizations transport the people they serve to the DMV to get a proper ID?
As for student IDs, in college, i turned in a kid on my floor who registered in the college town we were in, as well as used an absentee ballot. Never heard what happened, not much apparently, because I still saw him in the halls every day.
You can use a printed receipt from the DMV to vote. That should give you an idea how serious Republicans take the issue. Walker outsourced ID cards production to California so they now come via mail.
The purpose of photo ID at the polls is not to establish residency, that is done at voter registration. Some student ID are allowed for voter ID. The ones currently issued by the UW system are not allowed, but Marquette's are considered acceptable. This law will do nothing to prevent the scenario Curious RecDrago described. Lots of elderly blacks in the nation were born at home due to hospital policies at that time. Examples with links were given in a previous thread, am not doing re-work for people too lazy to google.
I agree with the importance of proving who one is when doing something as important as voting. But this particular law was specifically written to suppress chosen blocs of eligible voters, and will most likely work as intended.
Two reasons to flog this;
1. Make the Republicans look like Evil Meanies for trying to keep Brown People and the Vagina-blessed from voting.
2. Hope to get it overturned so the fraud machine can do it's magic. (Remember Milwaukee '04!)
Considering other voter ID laws have withstood Supreme Court challenges, really the only reason to keep up the fight is number 1.
(It begs the question, why not focus on getting valid IDs into the hands of those in need, but that's a laugher on the face of it.)
madisonfella said...
The purpose of photo ID at the polls is not to establish residency, that is done at voter registration. Some student ID are allowed for voter ID. The ones currently issued by the UW system are not allowed, but Marquette's are considered acceptable. This law will do nothing to prevent the scenario Curious RecDrago described. Lots of elderly blacks in the nation were born at home due to hospital policies at that time. Examples with links were given in a previous thread, am not doing re-work for people too lazy to google.
I agree with the importance of proving who one is when doing something as important as voting. But this particular law was specifically written to suppress chosen blocs of eligible voters, and will most likely work as intended.
9/26/14, 3:08 PM
So, if I possess the appropriate ID to be able to register, why is it not possible for me to use that very same ID when I show up to vote? Are you saying that the ID requirement at the voting location is more strict than the ID requirement to register?
why not focus on getting valid IDs into the hands of those in need
Exactly. Why did the Republicans make policies (ie closing down and reducing hours of local DMV offices) that makes it harder rather than easier for eligible voters to cast a ballot?
Thank goodness some are willing to help rather than hinder:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/news/confused-about-the-new-voter-id-law-in-wi
http://www.wiscnews.com/news/opinion/mailbag/article_92924037-85f3-5351-be9c-e4bd4859662c.html
http://www.lwvwi.org/Portals/0/VotingElections/PDFS/ACLU_info_sheet_forms%20for_voters_without_birth_certificate.pdf
Exactly. Why did the Republicans make policies (ie closing down and reducing hours of local DMV offices) that makes it harder rather than easier for eligible voters to cast a ballot?
They didn't.
The acceptable IDs for voting is a much shorter list than the acceptable IDs for registration. Plus, due to time constraints, misplaced or stolen ID is more of a issue with voting than registration.
One can argue that the registration requirements should be tightened up, but common sense says that if one is permitted to register then one should be handed a ballot and allowed to do so without additional burdens imposed.
OK, Madisonfella, I will ask again.
1.How many, in percentage terms or a raw number, of the population of Wisconsin voters born at home is "a lot"?
2. What time period are we referring to when you say that hospital facilities were not adequate "at the time"?
Expect to see Democrat turnout 'down' in certain urban precincts.
This will be due the suppression of multiple votes per person.
Not a dimes worth of difference between 9/11 Truthers and Voter Fraud Truthers.
garage mahal said...
Not a dimes worth of difference between 9/11 Truthers and Voter Fraud Truthers.
Ouch.
Hitting Robert Cook where he lives.
Garage, hasn't there been actual voter fraud in multiple locations?
Wouldn't that fact require differentiation between those who believe in the hilariously moronic and non-existent 9-11 truther claims vs those who have seen actual convictions of individuals for voter fraud?
Shouldn't the fact that one thing actually happens and the other thing is a completely made up fiction peddled by the left require some distinction?
Where is the evidence that there are minorities entitled to acceptable ID (read, apparently, drivers licenses) who can't get them? (BTW, why should a student ID count? It has no residence information on it.)
As usual, garage and his ilk are assuming facts not in evidence.
garage mahal said...
"Not a dimes worth of difference[...]"
To see how Garage channels Democrat segregationist, George Wallace, just google "george wallace not a dime's worth of difference".
but common sense says that if one is permitted to register then one should be handed a ballot and allowed to do so without additional burdens imposed.
Actually, common sense says that anyone voting should prove he's the same person who registered.
Meade:
It's terribly unfair of you to remind Democrats that their party has consistently acted to deprive fellow Americans of civil rights. Have you no decency, sir?
Funny you bring up George Wallace, Meade. That's the Walker strategy. Pit rural whites against urban blacks. Walker uses it extensively. Don't want Wisconsin turning into Milwaukee. *wink wink* My jobs plan is to piss test welfare recipients. *wink wink*
That you're so drawn to someone like Walker says a lot about you.
The Advancement Project is a 501(c)3 and as such "it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates."
Where is Lois Lerner when you need her?
George Wallace ran in Wisconsin twice and did quite well. Wallace boasted about getting the racist vote in Wisconsin. Walker is trolling for that same voting bloc. He's very, very good at it.
Hahahaha.
"garage mahal" projects the Democrat plan to pit minorities against whites onto Scott Walker.
What next, internet tough guy? You going to claim Walker has gone out of his way to commit a war crime against women?
Fen's Law FTW.
"That you're so drawn to someone like Walker says a lot about you."
Come on, garage. Don't beat around the bush. Say it.
garage - there is an actual Constitutional requirement to be a US citizen to vote. Buying a movie ticket has no legal requirements.
Nice distraction though.
garage - you're the racist one implying that minorities are incapable of going down to the DMV months before an election to get a fucking ID card. So arduous! Why do you think so lowly of them?
madisonfella:
Specifically, the Republicans wrote the law to favor those who traditionally vote their way (concealed carry permit is allowed) and against those who traditionally vote for Democrats (most student IDs currently used in the state are not allowed).
In order to get a concealed carry permit you have to prove citizenship and thus your eligibility to vote. In order to get a student ID you do NOT have to prove (nor do you in fact need) citizenship. Therefore a student ID is meaningless to establish your right to vote, but a concealed carry permit is.
Here's what I'm trying to figure out. The only real argument against Voter ID that makes any sense to me is that there are some quite elderly poor black people who weren't born in a hospital and may not be able to lay their hands on a birth certificate.
Tell me this - if they are unable to get valid ID showing that they are in the U.S. as legal residents, and they are too poor to get the requisite legal help in advance, how do they get anything else done? How do they get a bank account or cash checks or obtain government benefits?
Is the law only for People who intend to vote Democrat? Don't stupid, lazy, remotely located fat conservatives have to get off their poorly educated and old asses to get the IF cards as well?
I know lots of black people and not one of them couldn't get a voter ID, lots of stupid Democrats who have ID. Is this a Wisconsin thing? I know that Madison and Milwaukee have a race problem but the whole state is full of racists?
With apologies to Randy Newman:
Last night I saw Garage Mahal on some blog thread
With some smart-ass Neo-con
And the Neo-con laughed at Garage Mahal
And the audience laughed at Garage Mahal too
Well, he may be a fool, but he's our fool
And if they think they're better than him, they're wrong
So I went to the park and I took my laptop along
And that's where I made this song
We talk real funny up here
We drink too much and we laugh too loud
We're too dumb to make it in no Southern town
And we're keepin' conservatives down
We're progniks, progniks
And we don't know our ass from a hole in the ground
We're progniks, we're progniks
And we're keeping conservatives down
when Democrats complain that the Republicans are "manipulating the system for their own political gain" what they're really complaining about is that Democrats are being prevented from manipulating the system for their own political gain.
I guess Democrats will have to find more creative ways to support and commit voter fraud this election.
"I remain puzzled at the ID issue. Are not those arguing against it, those who claim it is a voter repression method, insisting loudly that their cohorts are too lazy or too stupid to get the ID while their opponents, not being lazy or stupid, can get them readily ?"
For Democrat politicians, voters being lazy and stupid is a feature, not a bug.
garage mahal: "George Wallace ran in Wisconsin twice and did quite well. Wallace boasted about getting the racist vote in Wisconsin. Walker is trolling for that same voting bloc."
Wow.
"..that same voting bloc."
Same. Voting. Bloc.
The very same.
No changes since 1968.
It's been what? Only 46 years since then.
But garage is arguing it's 1968 still.
Still.
1968. That year had to be within 10 years of the years that garage was "proving himself" "on the field" of Friday Night Lights battles...unlike some of the other commenters on this thread. Whom garage has already called out for it.
It will always be 1968.
garage is mentally stuck in the Howard Zinn view of the world. One of perpetual victims of white male patriarchy.
This is a variation of the same old dumb left claims of Republican victories by the "Southern Strategy" even though it took decades after Nixon, decades, before enough racist dems in the south died off along with large scale immigration from the North, Midwest and West into the south for the Republicans to take control.
It took until 2002 for Republicans to wrest control of the Texas House of Rep away from the dems.
2002.
But hey, "Southern Strategy" in 1968 or something.
garage: "That's the Walker strategy. Pit rural whites against urban blacks."
LOL
It's the "Thrilla in Wisconsinilla"!!
The Garagies vs the CrackEmee-ees.
And once you're a garagie you're a garagie all the way....
Real American: "For Democrat politicians, voters being lazy and stupid is a feature, not a bug."
And if America won't produce them quickly enough, we'll just let 'em walk right in and skip out on their immigration hearings.
And then pass state laws to give them drivers licenses.
And then pass state laws that forbid the asking for ID at the polls (in some states).
Feature.
Desired outcome.
Not a bug.
In the dems eyes we simply can't become Greece fast enough.
Alex said...
garage is mentally stuck in the Howard Zinn view of the world.
"Useful Idiots".
"Useful idiots."
Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. You must prove the usefulness of "garage mahal". Good luck.
garage - you're the racist one implying that minorities are incapable of going down to the DMV months before an election to get a fucking ID card. So arduous! Why do you think so lowly of them?
I don't think I've ever implied that. I bet I've argued the disabled and the elderly might have difficulty getting to a DMV, or may have difficulty getting to their polling place if their only option is doing it ON election day only.
As was pointed out upthread, the Wisconsin voter ID law was meant to discriminate Democratic voting blocs across the board. It companions the the curb in early voting, and in some cases eliminating early voting hours entirely. They know the only voting fraud happening is coming from them. Obviously they don't always care about electoral integrity. Stone-cold Liars. The lot of them.
If you still believe there is wholesale voting fraud going on in Wisconsin that could be prevented by passing this photo ID law you're a moron plain and simple. What isn't happening won't be prevented by your new law. It's like arguing with a duck.
No comments for 69 minutes and the best you could manage was a duck?
Also, I enjoy the way "garage mahal" has proven a negative. Not just anybody can manage that impossibility.
I have to show ID when I go to the doctor.
Voting? no way - must make it easy to cheat. When cheating wins the day, corruptocrats win too.
---Judge Rovner was appointed to the 7th Circuit by H.W. Bush
This has already been decided by the Supreme Court.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_v._Marion_County_Election_Board
Only in lefty America do we not follow the Supreme Court’s precedent.
----Add in the fact that a lot of black elderly don't have legal birth certificates ----
Just a f’ing lie. Beneath your usual lying standards.
voter ID laws are not meant to disenfranchise black voters like crackhead emcee from voting. it is meant to disenfranchise illegal aliens from from voting illegally.
and voter id laws require govt to provide FREE govt issued voter id cards to legit resident citizens of the state. come and get your FREE voter id card, courtesy of uncle sam.
I heard a Milwaukee County supervisor on the radio during the last election when voter ID was in effect Milwaukee County set up a special fund to pay for getting birth certificates for those who claimed that the $ 20 dollar processing fee was too onerous.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/132658343.html
If I recall correctly thought they were expecting 5000 applicants, but only 125 actually made the application.
Where were the other four thousand eight hundred and seventy five people without birth certificates? 125 actual cases of missing birth certificates in a county of nearly ONE MILLION people. Its such a beautiful political issue to raise division and anger, but the actual data like this shows what a lie it is the democrat voter’s can’t get ids.
If there ten times as many cases like this, democrats could wrap up the issue in a couple of days.
If they did that special show program again would the population of birth certificate non-holders be larger or smaller since we took care of 125 of them?
I would be OK with no ID if there were Hi Def cameras rolling at every polling place from the cast of the vote to its counting and the feeds made public for analysis so as to reassure those concerned about the minute possibility of voter fraud that it isn't happening.
----Add in the fact that a lot of black elderly don't have legal birth certificates ----
Fine, give elderly blacks, who were born in Jim Crow era a photo ID by attestation of a known citizen, I wouldn't have the tiniest concern with this accommodation to the actual victims of known past wrongs.
Of course Democrats would soon drive a train load of illegal Central American "undocumented Democrats" through this loophole.
Oh yeah, and absentee ballots require a fingerprint.
Can't the House set the manner of its own election? Why don't they just do this right now?
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