Althouse: Great up-voted comment on a Daily News column that argues that the "broken windows" approach to law enforcement "subjects minority and poor New Yorkers to harassment for no good reason."

४ ऑगस्ट, २०१४

Great up-voted comment on a Daily News column that argues that the "broken windows" approach to law enforcement "subjects minority and poor New Yorkers to harassment for no good reason."

"Stealing bundles of The Daily News from in front of yet to be opened stores is a Petty Crime. Many minority men have been arrested for stealing bundled newspapers. I believe this crime should also be wiped off the books. Let every one who wants to take newspapers have them. These entrepreneurs do poor people a service by selling them cheap News Papers near subways. Maybe writers of the DN could take a pay cut in order to offset the loss of income."

७९ टिप्पण्या:

The Drill SGT म्हणाले...: More importantly is that fact that Liberal New Yorkers (and the Elites nationwide) fail to preach what they generally practice, namely marriage before family. If we had fewer Murphy Browns and more Dan Quayles in the popular presence, the example for our people would improve generations of children...; ४/८/१४, ५:३२ AM
SomeoneHasToSayIt म्हणाले...: This column is not just wrong, but "as wrong and wrong can be" (applies to pretty much every Progressive issue). Nobody needs and benefits more from the "broken windows" approach, than minorities and the poor.

Respect for what's right, necessary and proper (in this case, property rights) in a civil society, no matter how small it may seem, is one of the first lessons that must be internalized on the path to being a worthy citizen in a Republic.; ४/८/१४, ५:५८ AM
rhhardin म्हणाले...: At a local town, before the drugstore opens there's a pile of bundled Sunday papers in the doorway.

As the morning progresses, the pile of papers shrinks and a pile of money on top grows until the store opens.

That's the red-state part of Ohio.; ४/८/१४, ६:०२ AM
rhhardin म्हणाले...: In the early 90s there was a newspaper machine in the lobby that one day had a hand-written notice on it

"This is my only source of income. Please take only one paper. Thank you. Donald Trump"; ४/८/१४, ६:०९ AM
SomeoneHasToSayIt म्हणाले...: rhhardin said...
In the early 90s there was a newspaper machine in the lobby that one day had a hand-written notice on it

"This is my only source of income. Please take only one paper. Thank you. Donald Trump"

Is there supposed to be some greater 'truth' in that joke?

If so, I don't see.

A person is as entitled to their millionth dollar, as to their first.

And, it's not a zero sum game. The fact that Trump (and his ilk) has (have) a lot, in no way means that there is then less for you and me.

And it certainly doesn't justify theft.

The rich should more be admired for achievement, than envied (assuming they got it honestly). Take some comfort, if you need to, in the fact that they are not necessarily happier than you are, or can be.; ४/८/१४, ६:५३ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: SomeoneHasToSayIt,

"Nobody needs and benefits more from the 'broken windows' approach, than minorities and the poor."

Then why aren't we begging for it? No, you've got this "want" and "need" thing backwards - just once, I'd like to see white people do what we need, and not what they want:

"According to most criminologists who speak of a broader "backlash",[a] the broken windows theory is not theoretically sound."

Like Paul Ryan, for somebody who's "got to say it," you could stand to listen more,...; ४/८/१४, ६:५५ AM
John henry म्हणाले...: I think the whole problem started when the first black man sold the first black man into slavery 1,000+ years ago.

All downhill since then.

John Henry; ४/८/१४, ७:०० AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: rhhardin,

"That's the red-state part of Ohio."

Big deal. I've seen the same thing in bluer-than-blue San Francisco and we've got desperation, here, that'd make you scream.

That superior sound you make, looking down on your fellow Americans, is at the heart of our troubles. Whites have been at it for centuries. There's nothing special about you or racist-assed Ohio.

I wipe my ass with your indignation - at the very problems assholes, like you, made for others - by being assholes.

Signed,

The descendent of one of those "dirty" "filthy" "lazy" thieving niggers who had to get past your fucking small town paradise to finally be free,...; ४/८/१४, ७:०५ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: BTW, rhhardin:

I was just in that area recently - wasn't impressed.

In case you couldn't tell,...; ४/८/१४, ७:०६ AM
sinz52 म्हणाले...: The "broken windows" approach--make the city a nice place to be and law-abiding people will live there--is what cleaned up New York City in the 1980s and 1990s.

My answer to inner-city blacks is the same answer that I have to the Palestinians, the Mexicans, and everybody else:

If you don't want to be treated like savages,
then don't act like savages.; ४/८/१४, ७:०६ AM
Vet66 म्हणाले...: Speaking of broken windows, I read that Susan Sarandon had her New York apartment broken into while she was away. The thief (thieves) stole jewelry, computer, etc. in what was obviously an expression of wealth redistribution and expression of our first amendment right to freedom expression. Feral thieves living on the fringes preying on those who empower them. Reminds me of Charles Bronson in Death Wish back in the 70's involving broken windows in New York. Some people never learn.; ४/८/१४, ७:०७ AM
paminwi म्हणाले...: Hey,stuff should be free. Just like water in Detroit.; ४/८/१४, ७:०७ AM
John henry म्हणाले...: I wonder how many black lives have been saved?

I wondered about the data and took a quick look. Didn't find murder by race but did find some interesting stuff on crime rates.

in 1980 the murder rate was about 320 per million residents. In 2012 it was about 40 http://qz.com/162289 (It's a graph so I am estimating the numbers)

In 2000, the murder rate was 8.7 per 1000. In 2012 5.1.

Overall serious/violent (murder, rape, assault, robbery, auto theft etc) crime rate in NYC was 419.6 in 2000 and 256.1 in 2012

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-New-York-New-York.html

Sounds like someone is doing something right.

John Henry; ४/८/१४, ७:१० AM
Fritz म्हणाले...: New York is going to try the experiment any way, now that de Blasio is in.; ४/८/१४, ७:२९ AM
Hyphenated American म्हणाले...: "Then why aren't we begging for it?"

Cause you are stupid, that's why. There is a reason some people are poor in USA, and low IQ and laziness is clearly the leading cause.; ४/८/१४, ७:४८ AM
phantommut म्हणाले...: Because, of course, no one actually built that newspaper.; ४/८/१४, ७:५९ AM
Sharc 65 म्हणाले...: "looking down on your fellow Americans, is at the heart of our troubles"

"I wipe my ass with your indignation"

Hostility aside, you don't see the intellectual disconnect there?

Rhhardin's pride in sharing an anecdote about human decency is okay by me and even catching. Try it.; ४/८/१४, ८:०० AM
John henry म्हणाले...: Crack said:

Then why aren't we begging for it? It apparently being broken windows policing.

Perhaps because you are not in NYC?

The blacks in NYC have been begging for it for 50-75 years. Perhaps not broken windows policing per se but for protection by the city against the black predators that murder, rape, rob and generally prey on them.

Why are you anti-black, Crack? Why won't you stand up for others of your own race? Don't you believe that blacks have the same rights as any others to be free of crime? Or do you think that is something only white folks deserve?

I guess we can chalk your comment up as just more Crackemcee bullshit.

John Henry; ४/८/१४, ८:०४ AM
Guildofcannonballs म्हणाले...: All Leftist newspapers ought to be free and therefore "stealing" them ought not be criminal.

Who the hell do these Sulzbergers and Slims think they are acting through corporations to attempt to earn PROFIT? They are filthy stinking liars.

Screw em.

And defending the gigantic leftist legal apparatus in New York City ought to be left to lying Leftists not unsophisticated folks who don't vote Communist. Big State Fascism sucks even if you were told Rudy is a good guy and you rah rah cops, you rah rah prosecutors, you rah rah judges, you rah rah administrators, you rah rah third party predators disguised as health professionals, etc...

Get the State the hell away from me. Get it the hell away from minorities, other than ginger like me, too.; ४/८/१४, ८:०६ AM
Ignorance is Bliss म्हणाले...: The Crack Emcee said...

That superior sound you make, looking down on your fellow Americans, is at the heart of our troubles,.

Somewhere, href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_G%C3%B6del">Gödel is spinning in his grave.; ४/८/१४, ८:०६ AM
jacksonjay म्हणाले...: I've seen the same thing in bluer-than-blue San Francisco and we've got desperation, here, that'd make you scream.

No Way! Desperation in Blue Utopia? Does SanFranNan know about all this screaming desperation?

I am truly shocked.; ४/८/१४, ८:०६ AM
CWJ म्हणाले...: "...for no good reason."

Premise masquerading as fact.; ४/८/१४, ८:१४ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: John,

"I think the whole problem started when the first black man sold the first black man into slavery 1,000+ years ago."

You are going to keep trying to equate one cultural situation with another and - whether that square can fit in that circle or not - you're going insist you've fixed it right up, aren't you?

You're a fool for that, JH, and will never get traction here,...; ४/८/१४, ८:१७ AM
CWJ म्हणाले...: The subject comment itself is worthy of Swift.; ४/८/१४, ८:१९ AM
phantommut म्हणाले...: And of course, no one built the bodega that now has no newspapers to sell to it customers.; ४/८/१४, ८:२१ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: sinz52,

"The "broken windows" approach--make the city a nice place to be and law-abiding people will live there--is what cleaned up New York City in the 1980s and 1990s."

What part of THAT'S BEEN DEBUNKED don't you understand?

"My answer to inner-city blacks is the same answer that I have to the Palestinians, the Mexicans, and everybody else:

If you don't want to be treated like savages,
then don't act like savages."

sinz, your Momma is a savage, and that's how you got here,...; ४/८/१४, ८:२१ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: David Hampton,

"Feral thieves living on the fringes preying on those who empower them."

And the white society that began with white women, gouging out black children's eyes in front of their mother's for dropping a serving dish, is so completely better - and blameless.

400 years, guys - it's no surprise you believe it:

White people have been lulling themselves to sleep with lies for such a long time,...; ४/८/१४, ८:२५ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: paminwi,

"Hey,stuff should be free. Just like water in Detroit."

The labor and bodies of those folks in Detroit was - for 250 years. Maybe, if whites would be good enough to,...what am I saying?

WHJITE PEOPLE WILL NEVER WANT TO BE GOOD,....; ४/८/१४, ८:२८ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: John,

"Sounds like someone is doing something right."

You're white, John Henry:

Everything you say sounds that way to you,...; ४/८/१४, ८:२९ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: Hyphenated American,

"There is a reason some people are poor in USA, and low IQ and laziness is clearly the leading cause."

Yes, HA, but we aren't discussing the whites who fail, with no obstacles placed in front of them, but those citizens we know have them.

Since "low IQ and laziness is clearly the leading cause" of our troubles, I'd say you better get off your fat ass and start educating yourself - quick,...; ४/८/१४, ८:३२ AM
Brando म्हणाले...: What an absurd argument--that society should not enforce the law in certain instances because of the disproportionate impact such enforcement would have on various racial groups. Though I notice the slow-wits arguing this point don't seem to argue in favor of greater prosecution of crimes with higher proportions of female lawbreakers (e.g., shoplifting) to remedy the much greater gender gap in our prisons. Funny how they leave that out of their social engineering.

The only questions we should be asking when deciding whether to prosecute certain crimes are: (a) should these actually be considered crimes (such as marijuana possession) and (b) is this the best use of our resources (prosecution of some crimes means less prosecution of others). It is also appropriate to find out whether we are properly investigating the prosecuting the crimes so as not to railroad innocent people.

Those are fair and fine questions. But beyond that, anyone committing the crimes is fair game for prosecution. If you're rending your garments over the fact that too many people of certain favored classifications are ending up in jail, then figure out how to have them commit fewer crimes.; ४/८/१४, ८:३८ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: Sharc 65,

"Hostility aside, you don't see the intellectual disconnect there?"

Fuck you - this is just like race - the white man started it. Make him stop seeing us as different and a lot of this shit goes away. Why? Because he's the attacker with the goofy ideas.

"Rhhardin's pride in sharing an anecdote about human decency is okay by me and even catching."

I repeat - he told of something common, happening all over America - fuck him and that place that didn't recognize people have a right to live. The only thing you're "catching" is his Mayberry RFD whiteness.

Try it.

No thanks - I'm about to eat breakfast,...; ४/८/१४, ८:३९ AM
Wince म्हणाले...: Loose cigarettes presumably purchased legally (not stolen) in a low-tax jurisdiction for sale on the street in a high-tax jurisdiction is not a "broken windows", quality of life enforcement of law.

It's government revenue enforcement. Period.

Ironically, given Eric Garner's physical attributes, his death was attributable to what economists would call a "Dead-weight loss" of taxation.

In economics, a deadweight loss (also known as excess burden or allocative inefficiency) is a loss of economic efficiency that can occur when equilibrium for a good or service is not Pareto optimal.

Causes of deadweight loss can include monopoly pricing (in the case of artificial scarcity), externalities, taxes or subsidies, and binding price ceilings or floors (including minimum wages). The term deadweight loss may also be referred to as the "excess burden" of monopoly or taxation.; ४/८/१४, ८:४६ AM
n.n म्हणाले...: Lowered expectations. They really don't get it. "Minority" and poor people are not inherently less capable or immoral. Perhaps instead of encouraging moral degradation, and rationalizing dysfunctional behaviors, they should negotiate for mutual benefit. Their reconciliation process has a myopic perspective.; ४/८/१४, ८:४७ AM
rhhardin म्हणाले...: Trump was bankrupt in the early 90s.; ४/८/१४, ८:४७ AM
The Godfather म्हणाले...: I went to law school in New York, at the beginning of the Lindsay administration. Lindsay promised to keep the low subway fare, so he saved money by cutting the subway police. The most obvious visual consequence of that was that soon all the subway cars were covered with graffiti inside and out. Turnstile-jumping became common. I visited NYC fairly regularly over the next couple of decades. I avoided the subway as much as possible. I felt that the subway was unsafe because it looked and felt like a lawless territory. If it affected me that way, I imagine it affected the hoods and petty thieves the same way. I bet that's how the "broken window" theory works, too. It seems to be working. If they change that approach, and crime rates rise, it will be an expensive experiment. It took a very long time to restore law and order to the subways, even after they started hiring more cops.; ४/८/१४, ८:५९ AM
n.n म्हणाले...: The comment reflects the wisdom of a degenerate religion, where people are treated as a collective. Maybe instead of treating symptoms, they can treat causes. The issue in this case is a dearth of economic development, integrated economic classes, excessive immigration or converged migration, and, of course, progressive inflation (e.g. cost shifting, excessive leverage) which devalues capital and labor.

The basic structures of society have been disrupted by government and affiliates intervention. At its worst (e.g. test tube babies, abortion, redistributive change), it has corrupted the family, which is the natural, primary level of social organization.

Anyway, the social and biological experiments must continue because they represent the largest political and financial opportunities.; ४/८/१४, ९:०५ AM
Peter म्हणाले...: The concept that it's OK to steal rests in part on the assumption that there will always be plenty available to steal.

Yet newspapers don't seem to be prospering so much lately. Does it occur to the author that theft undermines the entire system that makes it possible to produce the product in the first place?

Although if stealing a newspaper to sell it is OK, think of how much more OK it must be to steal newspapers because you don't like the newspaper's politics!; ४/८/१४, ९:४५ AM
William म्हणाले...: Citizens have a right to commit petty crimes and to resist arrest if they are apprehended by the police. If there's one good thing to come out of that choke hold death it will be this advancement in civil rights.......Early in Coleman Young's glorious tenure as mayor of Detroit, there was a case where a police officer got into a street fight with a citizen who had broken some minor law. The cop clocked him with his radio. The man went down and subsequently died from a skull fracture. Coleman Young made sure that the cop was tried and convicted of first degree murder. As a result cops were ever after quite respectful and tactful in going about their duties. Detroit prospered and blacks from all over the country flocked to live in a city where the civil rights of criminals were respected by the police. Given enough time, there's no reason why DeBlasio can't replicate the success of Detroit in NYC.; ४/८/१४, ९:५४ AM
TosaGuy म्हणाले...: Would the commenter think it would be okay to steal a computer to read the newspaper online? It would be racist to only allow people to only steal and sell the paper edition.; ४/८/१४, १०:०५ AM
pst314 म्हणाले...: "Stealing bundles of The Daily News from in front of yet to be opened stores is a Petty Crime...."

Economist Thomas Sowell has cited precisely this problem as a factor in the higher retail prices that slum dwellers face:

In low-crime neighborhoods a supermarket can put unsupervised produce outside the store without suffering significant theft. It is even possible to leave large bulky gardening supplies outside. In many "urban" neighborhoods this is not possible because anything left unattended would quickly be stolen.

The result is that the store in the poor neighborhood has less display space to display merchandise and less space to store it. This drives up costs just as much as the theft itself.; ४/८/१४, १०:१८ AM
John henry म्हणाले...: OK Crack,

SO let's say that the broken windows theory has been totally debunked as you say.

How come crime has dropped so dramatically?

I don't know that broken windows policing was what did it. Or not, for that matter.

There seems no doubt that crime has dropped sharply in NYC. More like fell off a cliff, really. See the numbers I posted earlier.

Something caused that to happen.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on reasons.

John Henry; ४/८/१४, १०:२१ AM
John henry म्हणाले...: Crack,

my comment on the problems caused by blacks selling blacks for 1000+ years was meant to be a parody.

Of you.

I figured you would jump in with slavery being the cause for whatever and I would preempt you.

John Henry; ४/८/१४, १०:२२ AM
pst314 म्हणाले...: rhhardin "As the morning progresses, the pile of papers shrinks and a pile of money on top grows until the store opens."

That happens at the tiny convenience store in my office building: When the sole operator has to leave for the bathroom, customers will sometimes leave payment for a newspaper or can of soda on the counter.; ४/८/१४, १०:२३ AM
Michael म्हणाले...: I have been in NY a lot since the 1970s and it is irrefutable that the quality of life there greatly improved after the institution of the "broken windows" . Anyone with eyes could see it. Anyone who walked the streets could see it. It may be a debatable theory but in practice, in NY, it worked. We will now see the laboratory at work if that way of policing is curtailed.

Culturally it is a shock, today, to see trash flung from the windows of a car. Who does such a thing? Observe and you will see that there are those who continue to toss trash out the window of cars. Notice the roadsides in this part of town and that part of town and you will see a difference in the lack of trash in one and the heaps of it in the other. Why is that?

I would be happy enough for the underclass to eschew policing altogether, to let them police their own neighborhoods, if they believe that they are being "harassed" because they are breaking windows or beleaguering motorists with their squeegees, or tagging all their buildings with graffiti. If their lives are being made miserable by the cops then perhaps the absence of cops will make it all better. The cops can come after a crime is committed if the crime is reported. Otherwise….

I live in a place where people put the money down on top of the unopened papers. Where walkers stoop to pick up tiny bits of trash. Where any bit of graffiti is washed away immediately. These are simple acts that don't cost a thing.; ४/८/१४, १०:२४ AM
John henry म्हणाले...: Re the comment about stealing the newspapers:

I took it seriously at first and thought some prof was actually advocating it.

Then I read the article and found that it was in the comments, not the article. The commenter was being sarcastic, not serious.

John Henry; ४/८/१४, १०:२४ AM
NCMoss म्हणाले...: Liberalism 101 insists that the endemic cultural flaws (crime, lack of education, family dysfunction) of "name that race" is the result of opposing cultural flaws (racism, etc). of "name that race". With that assumption, though, any solution - like those mentioned above are doomed to failure.; ४/८/१४, १०:२४ AM
John henry म्हणाले...: Last night I wanted to charge my phone. I kept trying and trying to plug in the charger and it would not go in. First one way then the other and it just WOULD NOT GO IN!!! Then finally, after I got really annoyed, it went in.

This happened because of the white man and the woman who gouged out the kids eyes because she dropped a dish.

It's all the white man's fault.

CrackEmcee; ४/८/१४, १०:२६ AM
pst314 म्हणाले...: Turnabout is fair play:
It is okay to stop and rob that advocate of newspaper theft, as long as you only take a dollar or two at a time. :-); ४/८/१४, १०:२७ AM
CWJ म्हणाले...: I read the comment as satire dryly mocking the original article. It seems that others here don't see that.; ४/८/१४, १०:३४ AM
cubanbob म्हणाले...: Laws that aren't enforced invite disrespect for the law in general and selective enforcement is a form of corruption. Either enforce the laws routinely or abolish them. Those who take the position that the broken windows concept is a fallacy are themselves promoting a fallacy. They offer no proof of their assertion and its highly doubtful they would countenance non-enforcement in their neighborhood.

As for the police and the prosecutors, they should be held to a higher standard,those who are in charge of enforcing the law should be punished harder for violating the law. One law isn't enforced by violating another law.; ४/८/१४, १०:४८ AM
pst314 म्हणाले...: Peter "The concept that it's OK to steal rests in part on the assumption that there will always be plenty available to steal."

Michael Fumento wrote on that problem:

"How ironic it is that some of the same people who conclude that the earth is fragile as a spider's web, that the human body is a sitting duck for anything synthesized by man, nevertheless see the American economy's capacity for absorbing ever-higher taxes and regulations as being boundless as the universe."
–-Science Under Siege by Michael Fumento; ४/८/१४, १०:५३ AM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: John,

"The blacks in NYC have been begging for it for 50-75 years. Perhaps not broken windows policing per se but for protection by the city against the black predators that murder, rape, rob and generally prey on them.

Why are you anti-black, Crack? Why won't you stand up for others of your own race? Don't you believe that blacks have the same rights as any others to be free of crime? Or do you think that is something only white folks deserve?

I guess we can chalk your comment up as just more Crackemcee bullshit."

Of course you will, because whites like to ask the questions AND supply the answers before they hang you.

In case you haven't noticed, John Henry, blacks in New York have been - and get - preyed on by everybody. Even the police, so I'm now going to "chalk your comment up as just more John Henry bullshit" and ask:

If you're SO CONCERNED, then why aren't you in favor of reparations for the people in this country who have never had security? You admitted that's the case yourself - so, where are you on it? You say they've been victimized for 50-75 years - that should be long enough to say the state and federal government's failed you, shouldn't it?

Step up, Oh brave white man, because you don't get it:

This shit is so righteous, you gonna talk yourself into it, whether you like it or not,...; ४/८/१४, ११:२९ AM
Sharc 65 म्हणाले...: Crack's response: "Fuck you."

Not now, I just finished my lunch.

I don't follow every move in these comments, but maybe someone here has given you reason over time for hostility. It was not me.

Incidentally, that seems to be the way you end every argument lately, rather than engaging in debate: F you, because shut up. Suggests you are not trying to convince anyone, just to do damage.; ४/८/१४, ११:३९ AM
John henry म्हणाले...: Back in '69 me and 175 of my closest friends cruised the Mediterranean. We spent 20-25 days in Marsaxlokk Bay in Malta. It was a beautiful isolated and undeveloped place at that time. Basically a tiny fishing village.

At the landing where the boat picked us up was a small shack that sold beer and stuff to people using the adjacent beach. The owner would leave it unlocked and told us to help ourselves and leave the money in the cooler. On a good night, he might have sold $50-100 worth of beer that way.

John Henry; ४/८/१४, १२:५२ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: The public forum here is nice, but there's this crazy old black guy that's muttering to himself and begging for quarters. Brings the place down.; ४/८/१४, १:०४ PM
John henry म्हणाले...: Crack, please stop referring to me as white. I am not, I am black.

I decided to be black not long ago when I found that I will need to be black for 10 years to get reparations.

So I'm looking for some of that sweet, sweet, loot that you are so sure is coming. I figure I will qualify in 2024. I figure that this will be just in time for the gravy train.

John Henry; ४/८/१४, १:१२ PM
285exp म्हणाले...: Reparations will solve pretty much everything, there'll be a lot more to steal.; ४/८/१४, १:४५ PM
Bilwick म्हणाले...: I know from personal experience that the Broken Windows theory works. I lived in what was a nice, moderate-rent apartment complex in a nice, safe, residential neighborhood. One of the stipulations right up front on the rental agreements was "No Dogs Allowed." But management turned a blind eye to that, and soon nearly every apartment was rented by a tenant with a big four-legged poop-machine that turned the place into one big dog toilet. Once that gave the underclass the message that "No one's on watch here," the place was taken over by trash--ghetto trash, trailer-trash, wigger trash, you name it.; ४/८/१४, १:४७ PM
From Inwood म्हणाले...: Funny but when they arrested guys for subway turnstile jumping in NYC, disproportionally Blacks, they found that these guys had a "record" a mile long including arrests for felonies, which felonies I guess our apologists would dismiss as just
"harassment".

My judgmental rule: don't get on the same car with the jumper. He might harass you for your money & jewelry.

An I a racist?

Inwood

PS: When back in NYC, I go often to The Cloisters, a branch of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, my boyhood castle. I then walk down through the park into "the [Inwood]Valley". A few Sundays ago a group of teen age girls with scissors went around holding up the local geezers in the valley at the foot of the Hill on which sits the Cloisters. Is it "harassment" to go after them for the few dollars they got from each geezer?

Will Crack "blame the victim" i.e., moi if I do this walk next time I visit & get mugged?; ४/८/१४, २:०१ PM
buwaya म्हणाले...: "Broken Windows" is not new at all.
The same approach was taken by Lee Kwan Yew in Singapore 60 years ago, for the same reasons, and most effectively. He changed the culture.; ४/८/१४, ३:१३ PM
Fernandinande म्हणाले...: John said ...
There seems no doubt that crime has dropped sharply in NYC. More like fell off a cliff, really. See the numbers I posted earlier.

Yup.

Heather MacDonald has a bunch of articles about it in "City Journal".

I decided to be black not long ago when I found that I will need to be black for 10 years to get reparations.

As an Hispanic Eskimo, I know that race is just a social construct, so no problemo*. The white-man's concept of time is also a social construct, so it's OK to backdate your forms.

*Problemo = one of our many Eskimo words for the different kinds of "reparations".; ४/८/१४, ३:१७ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Someone tell the African from America who is waiting for reparations, that my father, a banker, had a saying that I must have heard a hundred times growing up, which was: "If you equally divide all the money in the world among all the people in the world the money will be back where it started from in thirty days."; ४/८/१४, ४:०१ PM
Saint Croix म्हणाले...: I am in the middle of reading Malcolm Gladwell's The Tipping Point. (It's a great book, I got two chapters in and I stopped reading and bought his next three books). It's a book about how ideas take hold in a culture. Basically an idea spreads like a virus.

One of his chapters is about broken windows theory. How does it work? How does it reduce crime? And the argument is that our personalities are not fixed and stable. They are highly unstable, depending upon what environment we are in.

If you're in a subway with a lot of graffiti on the walls, and a lot of trash, and toll-jumpers, you're going to have a lot of crime. If you get rid of the graffiti, and the trash, and arrest the toll-jumpers, your crime rate drops dramatically.

Your immediate environment is a much bigger factor in your personality that we acknowledge. And our personality shifts depending on our surroundings.

People who have a stable personality (i.e. always act the same way) achieve this by controlling their environment. Enter a new environment, and your personality will change.

He's got a lot of scientific research to back up his book. It's a really interesting and fun read.; ४/८/१४, ४:१७ PM
Fen म्हणाले...: Ann's Little Sockpuppet: If you're SO CONCERNED, then why aren't you in favor of reparations for the people in this country who have never had security?

Reparations aren't going to stop blacks from killing each other. Really pathetic that you would sell out your own race for the promise of table scraps from the racebaiting elites you serve.

Then again, the fact that you so cynically play the race card here every day reveals how much you actually care about black people. All you are doing is radicalizing both sides. Why?; ४/८/१४, ५:१८ PM
Fen म्हणाले...: The public forum here is nice, but there's this crazy old black guy that's muttering to himself and begging for quarters. Brings the place down.

Get used to it. Its our lovely hostesses way of trolling us, passive-aggressively.; ४/८/१४, ५:२१ PM
Michael K म्हणाले...: Another Crack thread. The Wall Street Journal has an option to read only comments of subscribers. Any chance we could have that option with Crack's moments ? I'm getting old and trying to hold onto all the IQ points I have left. If I accidentally read one of his comments, I can feel them slipping away.

"New Yorkers live in a far, far less violent city than we have in generations, and yet the NYPD continues to find thousands upon thousands of minor crimes to enforce."

This is what a content-free education does for you. Especially logic-free. Kind of like Crack's.; ४/८/१४, ५:२९ PM
Douglas B. Levene म्हणाले...: I don't think Crack ever lived in NYC. I did from 1981 to 1994. I saw the city go from lawless to safe and it didn't happen by accident. One day the squeegee men and the turnstile jumpers were out in force, and the next day they weren't. I guess purely by coincidence the violent crime rate started dropping, too.; ४/८/१४, ६:४८ PM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: John,

"SO let's say that the broken windows theory has been totally debunked as you say.

How come crime has dropped so dramatically?"

The guys behind Freakanomics say it was abortions:

The drop in crime correlates perfectly with the advent of Roe V. Wade.

Fewer out of wedlock/low income kids to potentially become criminals then, fewer crimes by adults today.

NOT the answer you were looking for, I'm sure,...; ४/८/१४, ७:४६ PM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: poker1one,

"Someone tell the African from America who is waiting for reparations, that my father, a banker, had a saying that I must have heard a hundred times growing up, which was: "If you equally divide all the money in the world among all the people in the world the money will be back where it started from in thirty days.""

"The African from America"? Boy, you guys are TRIPPING.

Someone tell poker1one he and his dad are idiots,....; ४/८/१४, ७:४८ PM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: Saint Croix,

"If you're in a subway with a lot of graffiti on the walls, and a lot of trash, and toll-jumpers, you're going to have a lot of crime."

Jesus, Dude, and I consider you a half-decent thinker:

Are you seriously going to tell me, just by being in the vicinity of "a lot of graffiti," that you - YOU - would become more likely to commit a crime?

Then why assume that's how it works on others? It makes no sense. I'll tell you what makes sense - just good ol' common sense:

A system that pushes people into desperation leads them to crime - as we saw during the Holocaust - and part of that, "a lot of graffiti," is an expression of not appreciating what it's clear was never meant for you and/or you'll never own.

Writing on things is simultaneously destroying them and dominating them.

Man, white guys can make me feel so much smarter than they are sometimes,...; ४/८/१४, ८:०० PM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: John,

"my comment on the problems caused by blacks selling blacks for 1000+ years was meant to be a parody.

Of you."

You're a fun guy, John Henry.

Regardless,...; ४/८/१४, ८:०२ PM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: Douglas,

"I saw the city go from lawless to safe and it didn't happen by accident. One day the squeegee men and the turnstile jumpers were out in force, and the next day they weren't. I guess purely by coincidence the violent crime rate started dropping, too."

Why do I post links if you ignoramous' are going to ignore them? For the second time - emphasis mine:

"According to most criminologists who speak of a broader "backlash", the broken windows theory is not theoretically sound. They claim that the "broken windows theory" closely relates correlation with causality, a reasoning which is prone to fallacy."

Now admit you're wrong and stay a wise man.

Or continue to thrash around and invite worse.

Prison rules,....; ४/८/१४, ८:०८ PM
The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...: The targeting of blacks and Latinos for minor violations has not shown a direct correlation for the decrease in crime over the years. In fact, in the Bronx, an area where the "broken windows" strategy is aggressively enforced, the murder rate is on the rise from 2013—up 28.5 percent from last year. If you buy into the theory of "broken windows" policing, this fact alone disproves its hypothesis."; ४/८/१४, ८:३० PM
Phil 314 म्हणाले...: "COMMENTS ARE MODERATED."

But not moderate.; ४/८/१४, ८:३५ PM
Douglas B. Levene म्हणाले...: Crack,

The reason the murder rate is rising in NYC is because the leftists have forced the PD to give up its stop+frisk tactics, which had previously forced a lot of criminals not to carry weapons. Now they can without fear of being busted, and we can see the results.; ४/८/१४, ९:२० PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: i was waitin' for this type of article and i have gained some useful information from this site. thanks for sharing this information.

www.n8fan.net; ५/८/१४, १२:५७ AM
John henry म्हणाले...: "Why do I post links?",you ask.

Crack?

As far as I can see, and I just looked again, you have posted no links about broken windows. No mention of who says it is debunked. Nothing beyond your flat statements that it is.

Par for the course. You pretty much never post links or anything beyond your flat statements.

Then after making that statement, you post a link to Gawker that rather belies your whole point.

Did you read the Gawker article? More importantly did you read the NY Daily News article that it was based on? You should pay particular attention to the statistics in the article on actual rates.

Yes, murders are up slightly in the Bronx in 2014 vs 2013. (to 18 from 14 for the same 2013 period) However, according to the article they are down 37% from 2 years ago.

Like the rest of the city, the Bronx is enjoying a period of peace and calm compared with a peak in the early 1990s, with murders down 37% from just two years ago and 56% from 2001, when 190 homicides were recorded, NYPD records show.

Citywide, homicides were down 8.3%, from 84 in 2013 to 77 this year.

So homicides are down sharply in the Bronx. Not only down, but down even more sharply than elsewhere in the city.

As you say, correlation is not causation but there does seem to be a correlation between broken windows and crime. More vigorous policing (in the Bronx) correlates with a greater drop in crime.

Sounds like one of those good kinds of problems to me.

John Henry; ५/८/१४, ८:०८ AM
John henry म्हणाले...: I am familiar with the Freakonomics guys and the claim that abortions correlate with lower crime rates. I even agree with it to some extent.

There also seems to be evidence that removal of lead from gasoline has caused crime rates to dramatically decrease. And removal of lead paint also, to a lesser extent.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline

But as you say, correlation does not prove causality.

John Henry; ५/८/१४, ८:१४ AM