Said Karl Rove, referring to how the GOP candidate Bob Dole was treated. But all of Rove's examples are sneaky references to age, like choosing photos of Dole looking particularly old or calling his speech "tired, old, worn-out rhetoric." That's not bringing up health and age "with abandon."
Where's the direct statement from "the Clintons" saying Bob Dole is old? I know that was the message at the time, and it was, in fact, very successfully conveyed.
Rove needs to be accurate or he just makes himself an easy target. Maybe he's drawing fire on purpose here, but he's got a good point to make, and then he overstates it and looks like a liar. Is that something he's in control of — looking like a liar even when he's essentially telling the truth — or is that something he does with abandon?
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८९ टिप्पण्या:
I remember a democrat bumper sticker from back then: Dole is 96.
Used to make me chuckle.
I also remember the brooklyn dodgers gaffe. Not sure how the Clintons capitalized on that, but I bet they did.
Dole was pictured with then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich, Rove added. Then an announcer in the spot says: "Their old ways don’t work. President Clinton’s plan — the new way."
See! Just like saying someone is brain damaged. No difference at all.
I'm not sure if Hillary will run, but I hope she does, if only to bring out the frothing and stumbling that the Clintons have a talent for drawing from some conservatives. And if she wins (tough for any party to win three Presidential elections in a row, but doable), the apoplectic entertainment factor will be magnificent.
Ann I expected better from you than this comment. A quick Google search turned up a good bit of material from (gasp) the archives of the New York Times. I'd say there was a lot of gay abandon in mentioning Dole's age; from the White House Chief Counsel; from the Democrat Campaign Committee (who else but Slick Willie as a sitting President running for re-election controlled that group?)
I remember a "Saturday Night Live" sketch in which former California Gov. Ronald Reagan, being made up for a TV appearance, was portrayed as a senile old coot who had no business running for president in 1980 at the age of 69 - the same age Hillary Rodham Clinton will turn in 2016.
O tempora, o mores.
Dems didn't gripe when Mondale attempted to make an issue out of Reagan's age in 1984. Though Reagan memorably bitchslapped that argument to smithereens in the debates that year.
"I will not make age an issue in this campaign. I will not exploit for political purposes the youth and inexperience of my opponent."
He's not overstating it at all. Older GOP candidates were mercilessly and shamefully attacked, both directly and with innuendo.
Turn about is fair play.
Besides, the Clinton are truly evil people, and I'll support hyperbola, and more, against them any day of the week with a 'y' in it.
Bill and Hill should stop whining.
They did the same and worse.
Someone has to keep reminding Hillary - and the Dems -that it will not be a cake walk and perhaps, at her age, she would be right to reconsider. Apparently Rove is designated reminder and he seems to have struck a sore spot.
Rove isn't running for president. The Clintons had their agents too.
"See! Just like saying someone is brain damaged. No difference at all."
Rove says he didn't use the term "brain-damaged".
Personally, I like the term brain-bruised.
Certainly seems these tired, old, worn-out posts dissecting semantics are more and more being generated with abandon... Whether the message is conveyed in a 'sneaky reference' or otherwise, what difference, at this point, does it make?
I saw Rove this morning on Fox News Sunday. He has certainly set off the lefties like garage but what he said to a private meeting was reasonable and not a lie. Bill Clinton said it took her 6 months to recover and that would have been even more exciting had Rove said it.
I didn't see him making any direct statement about her being too old. He said it was a consideration for her in light of her head injury, a "severe concussion" according to Bill.
Hilarious.
Karl Rove Republican math
Lets be clear, "lying" about a candidate hasn't hurt the democrats, just look at the things said about Romney that were untrue but were used against him over and over. Palin, etc. Of course who really took Harry Reid to task, yet let's pin down Karl Rove. Its as if that's the strategy and the minions are dutifully preparing the HRC battleground.
Huma says that Hillary doesn't taste a day over forty-nine.
Recent pic?
Makes BC look like HC's father.
Concussion = brain injury, injury = damage. Te Clintons lie with every breath. They are not entitled to have Rove lie for them.
Rove would be better off saying that he is discussing age and health in an open honest way (even if he isn't) while the Clinton's used age in a typically Clintonian dishonest way with code words and dog whistles.
"Ann I expected better from you than this comment. A quick Google search turned up a good bit of material from (gasp) the archives of the New York Times. I'd say there was a lot of gay abandon in mentioning Dole's age; from the White House Chief Counsel; from the Democrat Campaign Committee (who else but Slick Willie as a sitting President running for re-election controlled that group?)"
Well, I expect better from you in reading this post, which is all about how Rove defended his point with examples. Look at the examples he gave. If you found better examples that would have supported his point that heightens my point: Rove doing a bad job of making what is essentially a sound point, as if he's got a compulsion to look dishonest.
And I myself did a better job of defending what Rove said the other day than Rove did after he was attacked. Read my May 13th post, here. I brought up Dole at the time and said
"I remember when Bob Dole ran for President in 1996 and there were endless jokes about how he was so old it was practically a miracle he still walked the face of the earth. It's 18 years later, and the man is still alive."
Note that Rove also rushed to say "Of course she doesn't have brain damage." Why did he say that? How does he know?
Dole was a huge mistake by the Grand Old Party. You had to suspect they wanted to lose 4 more years to Clinton in 1996 with Gingrich running the Congress where the real money could be made with
Roves and Limbaugh making money off running the opposition campaigns for 4 more years.
Maybe Rove has brain damage. Just a question!
""Of course she doesn't have brain damage." Why did he say that? How does he know?"
It's all about red capes and bulls. You should know that. The Democrats are making his point far better than he can.
"Never mention rope in the house of a man who has been hanged." Who said that ?
Gerald Ford, a college All American football player, once tripped coming down th stairs of an airplane, proving to the left that he was senile and losing it, a stumblebum.
Hillary has famously tripped more than once. I expect she has had multiple TIA episodes, the last causing her to fall on her head and concuss.
Democrats went after McCain on his age, too. I mean, you don't even have to go back that far.
David Gregory aggressively defended Hillary on Meet the Press this morning-- repeatedly and loudly tried to get Reince Priebus to renounce Rove. Rove's comments about Hillary's brain trauma was the lead story.
Why such an effort to tamp down analysis of Hillary's concussion incident?
can the clintons and Karl Rove please exit stage right.
Huma says that Hillary can still put her ankles behind her ears. Without even peeing a little. It is good to have Huma in your 'corner'.
What is the big deal with the age of 69? Huma says that Hillary gets very excited about 69.
The saying that 65 is the new 45 could be applied to Hillary. Or is that only for 65 year old men picking their trophy wife?
Hillary can be our trophy President. We will need a Pre-nup with her that its only for four years or until she dies, whichever comes first.
somefeller said...
I'm not sure if Hillary will run, but I hope she does, if only to bring out the frothing and stumbling that the Clintons have a talent for drawing from some conservatives.
Yeah, telling the truth always looks like frothing and stumbling.
"Maybe Rove has brain damage. Just a question!"
Interesting take on the whole "Bush's Brain" thing.
It really looks like Althouse is being less than honest - the functional equivalent of lying - with her Talmudic distinction between various ways to bring up the subject of age. Althouse agrees that the Clinton & Co. brought up the subject quite a lot in the '96 election, which is what Rove said. (And if anything, Rove was being more adult & responsible by bringing up the subject of age explicitly, and not using juvenile allusions.)
So the rest is crap.
I, for one, hope Republicans keep hitting Hillary hard on the age issue. They have 2-1/2 years to drive home the point that they think old people aren't worth very much.
This strategy could be as effective for the GOP with the 65+ set as their rhetoric about the "urban poor" and "illegals" has been with other voting blocs.
It is convenient that Rove et al have the 2014 elections to test market themes. "Geezers: Just shut your pie-holes and vote GOP! " I'm sure a professional like Rove will develop pithier slogans, but I think that captures the general tone that seems to make Republicans comfortable.
In the meantime, the Clintonistas will keep begging Rove not to throw Hillary into the brier patch.
Doesn't really matter. Rove isn't running for office. In 2 years, nobody will remember what he said, but the topic will still be alive (and probably will have been made by Martin O'Mally in the primaries).
Remember, Willie Horton was not originally a GOP talking point.
A bump on the heed do not necelery meet brane gingery. My had won and it dead knot due numbing 2 meh septic made bludgeon clot – winch the sturgeon watched aweigh . It deed not rapture no thang et al and deed knot impale meh in lots of no weighs. Nome saying?
Althouse may be onto something there.
Rove is certainly past his "best if sold by" date.
Someone needs to explain to Rove that the best political points are the ones individuals figure out for themselves given enough information to cause them to think about the issue. Rove was stupidity over the top with his legitimate points about Hillary Clinton's health and how it should and will be an issue during her presidential campaign. Rove weakened his argument and made himself look dishonest.
If Clinton wins it will be because she wins an inordinate share of the female vote. Attacking her is pretty tricky for the Repubs because of all the crap they have thrown in the past. Having a middle-aged male Rove attack her for being too old does not strike me as a successful strategy. I'm guessing that just piles up the female vote for her without undermining whatever male vote she gets automatically.
So far the most interesting thing said was by Bill about the six months it took for her to recover.
Pass the popcorn.
"When he's out on his campaign, what goes on in McCain's brain?" ("Wooo! Looks like they dug up somebody who's older than me...")
Anything that will impede the Clinton's next grift is OK with me.
I thought Bill's defense of Hillary's "brain damage" issue was pretty weak: "It took her six months to recover" and "If she has brain damage, I must be in really bad shape because she's still quicker than I am."
The use of the hypothetical "If" does not exactly inspire confidence.
I thought Bill's defense of Hillary's "brain damage" issue was pretty weak: "It took her six months to recover" and "If she has brain damage, I must be in really bad shape because she's still quicker than I am."
The use of the hypothetical "If" does not exactly inspire confidence.
You have to wonder why the democrats would want to invest their hopes in someone in ill health who could stroke out and leave them candidate less in 2016? Better they flesh this issue out now than try to run that retard Biden.
bbkingfish: "They have 2-1/2 years to drive home the point that they think old people aren't worth very much."
Another example, as if we needed another, of how history begins anew each day for the left.
It's as if the lefties political attacks on the age of Reagan, HW Bush, Dole and McCain never even happened.
Fen's Law.
Again.
A personal attack on Hillary! I can't believe it! How dares he?!!!
But after all, at this point, what difference does it make?
Sure sounds like the same old Hillary! to me.
Her brain kept alive by experimental science. By a man who’s abnormal passions inspired him to try the impossible. His mad ambitions and desires threaten every woman possessing an attractive body. Girls who’s measurements make them beauty contest participants. Professional figure models, such as this. All are prey to his distorted desire.
Bill Clinton in, The Brain That Would Not Die.
Because some liberals went after McCain's age, that means Rove told the truth when he said Bill Clinton went after Bob Dole's age with abandon 1996. Republican Math.
re: brain damage, could be many explanations for fall not involving brain damage such as a virus or as reported, dehydration.. Falling and hitting ones head can cause dislodging of inner ear crystal, causing vertigo and could take a while to correct. The glasses may have been to provide stability.
Or something else.
The thing that might signal brain damage was her willingness to work in the BO administration.
Gerald Ford, a college All American football player, once tripped coming down th stairs of an airplane, proving to the left that he was senile and losing it, a stumblebum.
I also liked that they panned Ford for falling while skiing - while a lot of the Secret Service couldn't keep up on the slopes. Almost assuredly the most athletic President of our lifetimes. Also, supposedly the best golfer, even despite the extreme number of rounds that Obama has played since first elected President.
I think that this all is going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Not this year, really, but during the election in two years.
The basic problem for the Dems is that they have a very old bench. Think of the big three so far that are being taken somewhat seriously - Hillary!, Slo Joe Biden, and fauxhauntis Warren. All in their very late 60s or early 70s in January 2017. Warren barely considered a Baby Boomer, and the other two really too old for that.
And, then one of the big demographics that put Obama over the top the last two elections were the young voters. Obama was much cooler and hipper than crotchety old McCain or straight laced Mormon Romney. We are talking Gen Y and the Millennials, in particular. The Republicans, for a lot of structural reasons, have a deep young bench, which translates into a lot of vigorous candidates a generation or so younger than any of the candidates that the Dems seem most likely, right now, to run. Making things worse - some of the potential young Republican candidates are minorities - notably Hispanic, which might cut into the Dem Hispanic vote.
The Dems right now just don't have the next Obama in the wings, ready to step in and save the party from their geriatric problem (part of which is that so many of their leaders consider political office a sinecure, and so only leave office feet first). How do they limp through the next Presidential election, while their post-Baby Boomer generation leadership matures a bit more? Its going to be hard.
And what happens if the Dems lose the Presidency in 2016, and the Senate this year? I expect a big shakeup in the government, and a number of prominent Dems facing prosecution. Remember, the only reason that Harry Reid is not under investigation by the DoJ for taking bribes right now is that AG Holder, likely as a political favor, quashed the investigation. IRS is likely to be gutted, or at least neutered. DoJ reformed, and BATFE gutted. And, the worst parts of ObamaCare gutted. I wouldn't mind some financial re-reform, but, too many politicians on both sides of the isle were bought and paid for by the too-big-to-fail banks. Enough to keep a lot of Dem strategists up late at night unable to sleep. The culmination of 60 years of progressive social engineering potentially destroyed because the Dems couldn't find any viable candidates not eligible for Social Security.
"Better they flesh this issue out now than try to run that retard Biden."
Who do they have ? Sheila Jackson Lee ? Maxine Waters ?
O'Malley is probably the best they have and he is not much.
grackle you look like santa claus....i have been a bad boy, can i sit on your lap?
All this battlespace prep that Karl Rove is doing for Jeb Bush just isn't working. He should better spend his time demonizing the Tea Party which is exactly what he will be doing in due time.
Maartha wrote:
"David Gregory aggressively defended Hillary on Meet the Press this morning-- repeatedly and loudly tried to get Reince Priebus to renounce Rove. Rove's comments about Hillary's brain trauma was the lead story.
Why such an effort to tamp down analysis of Hillary's concussion incident?"
Martha - I think to the media and Dems, Hillary is a sacred cow.
It’s odd that Bill Clinton would broadcast the fact that it took Hillary six months to recover from that concussion. It only emphasizes the seriousness of the condition, and that can't be a good thing to want to plant in everyone's mind. Makes me think old Bill really doesn't want her to be president. First female president would overshadow him in the history books, or something.
"grackle said...
A bump on the heed do not necelery meet brane gingery. My had won and it dead knot due numbing 2 meh septic made bludgeon clot – winch the sturgeon watched aweigh . It deed not rapture no thang et al and deed knot impale meh in lots of no weighs. Nome saying?"
Indeed. Indeed I'm afraid I do.
All the posters here need to remember that Ann is a moderate. Which means she tilts left. So Democrats can be hard-edged and Republicans must be nice. Otherwise they will lose the left-tilting moderates. A fine recipe for a democratic government.
You're naughty, AJ.
It's impossible to smear the Clinton's because you can't smear garbage.
Rove...accurate?
Good one.
Karl Rove is raising legitimate questions. Hillary Clinton needs to answer them, and provide detailed medical documents concerning her health, including the brain damage she suffered during her recent sever concussion.
American people deserve to know if the next president can perform mentally. Surely Hillary understands that it is for the greater good of society that she must give up her privacy and disclose her medical history.
grackle you look like santa claus....i have been a bad boy, can i sit on your lap?
True, at least it was 4 yrs. ago when the pic was taken. I was aware of it because I was told that same thing a couple of times. By adults! The small children would just do a double-take and get this wide-eyed look of, "Is it really him?"
The present-day skinny me doesn't get that anymore. The roundness is gone from the face, I guess. Now I look more like Gabby Hayes. BIG improvement, right?
Sadly, Titus, I'm afraid a good old-fashioned lap-sitting is out for now. It would for sure trigger one of Roy's jealousy fits, who is otherwise a very sweet personality. Those spurs are a bitch on hardwood floors; after the last tantrum, at our next party we had to pretend it was distressed flooring. I'm not sure the guys bought THAT one.
You should have listened more closely -- Rove gave several rather specific examples.
David Gregory aggressively defended Hillary on Meet the Press this morning-- repeatedly and loudly tried to get Reince Priebus to renounce Rove.
Aw, don't be too hard on the guy. Aggressively defending Democrats IS his job, after all.
t’s odd that Bill Clinton would broadcast the fact that it took Hillary six months to recover from that concussion.
Even Slick Willy makes the occasional slip.
"You should have listened more closely -- Rove gave several rather specific examples."
I discussed them in this post, which you should read more closely.
The side of "If you like your health care you can keep your health care, period" and "Mitt Romney didnt pay any income taxes for 10 years" and "he killed a woman!" and "the average family will save $2500" is suddenly very very very concerned about pinpoint accuracy.
Democrat rural high school woodshop math.
The side of "If you like your health care you can keep your health care, period" and "Mitt Romney didnt pay any income taxes for 10 years" and "he killed a woman!" and "the average family will save $2500" is suddenly very very very concerned about pinpoint accuracy.
Democrat rural high school woodshop math.
I think Rove is laying a nice land mine. Campaigns are long and tiring which inevitably leads to candidates making mistakes, just as Hillary did in 2008. The Clinton support squad is making a big error by talking about this. Why? Because if Hillary runs, and when she inevitably appears tired, disoriented or makes another "what difference does it make" type of statement, people will remember this and silently nod their heads in agreement.
Plus it is also fun watching leftists women defend the wife of a serial philanderer who has been accused of multiple sexual assaults. War on women? Bill Clinton is a one man battalion.
Karl Rove was neutralized years ago.
Nothing he says -- right or wrong -- will gain traction with the majority of Americans.
Sure, it seems unfair compared with the ageist mud thrown at Reagan, Dole and McCain. That's the past. Now is now.
Let's see if the Republicans can find anybody credible to make the same point about poor, dear, wonderful, feminist Hillary.
Rove's particulars are beside the point, as there is more than ample time to introduce and discuss those details. What matters is that he raised the issue, and that Hillary deserves the same nasty, vicious, ruthless treatment the Democrats historically have dished out on this matter. In fact, back in 1980, Carter actually taunted Regan with the language "when the Governor was a younger man" during one of the debates. Reagan kicked his worthless ass though.
Good research. That's not why Dole lost anyway. Republicans have to prove they are better for the poor and Reaganomics is the proof. Poverty plunged along with unemployment 1983-1989.
If Ann is going to call out liars in DC, she could make a full time job from just pointing out Obama's.
Mondale did not make a big deal about Reagan's age in 1984. The MSM pushed the topic after the first debate in an attempt to help Mondale. Reagan was rusty and struggled throughout the debate. Being partially deaf he didn't hear Barbara Walters' comment before his closing statement. Reagan said he was confused and made a rambling statement. Reagan wrapped up the election with a strong performance in the second debate. Mondale tiptoed around the subject.
garage mahal: Because some liberals went after McCain's age, that means-
Must say, I'm looking forward to Garage's situational ethics and pretzel logic for the upcoming election.
Does nobody remember Rove's push poll about McCain's black baby?
The problem with Reagan is that he really was declining into senility! That's not acceptable in a President.
The Reagan senility claim is an idiotic canard. And your quibble is that you didn't turn up any explicit age digs at Dole, yet the message is clear? What is that?
The Clintons are always about discrediting any sphere of inquiry and criticism about themselves. Move on. What difference does it make. I'm a girl, you can't attack me. You're going to support Hillary, aren't you? You're going to learn precisely nothing from your naive, negligent 2008 support of Obama and support an equally unaccomplished, college dorm movement progressive to continue the work Obama started.
Then you somehow missed the significance of using those repeated mentions of his age, of "old ideas". But I suspect it's just one of your outbreaks of charming naivete and ingenuousness.
In the meantime, can we dispose of this silly notion that Rove was wrong about brain damage. She suffered a concussion, a traumatic brain injury, followed by cerebral thrombosis, followed by -- according to Bill -- six months of hard recovery.
Now, she may or may not have suffered some permanent brain damage, but there is *no* *question* that she suffered a brain injury -- which is after all what Rove said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/hillary-clinton-blood-clot-life-threatening-medical-experts/story?id=18101213
"The problem with Reagan is that he really was declining into senility! That's not acceptable in a President."
So, the arguments seems to go like this. Reagan was going in to senility (although there is no proof of that), and this is why nobody should raise questions about Hillary's documented and proven case of a severe brain injury and old age. Weird.
"This strategy could be as effective for the GOP with the 65+ set as their rhetoric about the "urban poor" and "illegals" has been with other voting blocs."
Kind of like the Democrats with whites generally, and older whites specifically.
"The problem with Reagan is that he really was declining into senility! That's not acceptable in a President"
Worked out great though, on the whole.
Ann Althouse: "The problem with Reagan is that he really was declining into senility!"
No, he wasn't.
Reagan underwent brain surgery to remove fluid from his brain 2 months after a very serious fall from a horse in 1989.
It was from this moment on that the "slowing down" of Reagan (reasonable after being seriously wounded by Hinckley) became accelerated.
This whole "senility" thing while Reagan was President that Ann has taken up is simply more of that "received wisdom" that lays down premises which every good liberal starts from, regardless of factual accuracy.
Very similar to "dixiecrats became Republicans!".
No, they didn't.
Which is why it took decades for the Republicans (after much demographic movement into the south for business and cultural reasons) to finally wrest control of southern statehouses from the dems.
Republicans didn't even take control of the Texas statehouse until 2002!
Yeah, it was because of all those dixiecrats in 1968 that republicans took control in Texas a mere 34 years later.
It seems to me he is deploying a modified form of Plouffe's "Stray Voltage" tailored to the deaf Media.
Rove's "Stray Doltage" theory means dropping an attention-getting bomb and then once he has their attention refining the examples with proof and truth.
I would say it working great given that the Media will usually decide to ignore GOP completely.
Brain damage is pretty hard to ignore. And the seed is planted.
If you saw the picture of Obama twerking on the burger joint lunch counter this weekend you can hardly say this attention-whoring is beneath Karl Rove.
Now, she may or may not have suffered some permanent brain damage,
Immunizes her.
Chair: blah blah blah Bengazi?
Hillary: i do not recall
Chair: blah blah Boko Haram?
Hillary: i do not recall
Chair: blah blah Rose Law Firm?
Hillary: i do not recall
ad naus...
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-democratic-partys-brain-damage.html
As I posted about your bitching on the bitch thread, you can assert but cannot defend the idea that Rove spoke too strongly about the Clintons using the "old" gambit against Republicans. If Baquet's usage suffices to call Abramson a "bitch" then there are no rules to say that Rove did not cite a sufficiently explicit formal use of oldist rhetoric. You even state that the Clintons slyly danced around this point without putting it into so many words, while making their message quite clear.
Likewise, this guy on the paper did not explicitly call Abramson a bitch. He did use a form of the word bitch in a sentence and you are taking that and running with it that he called her a bitch - "that's how you call someone a bitch" - so if you were serious that that construction is close enough to calling someone a bitch then I certainly think that you are silly at best to attack Rove for imprecision in saying that Republicans were called "too old" by the Clintons.
I really don't understand what you were getting at with that but this weakens your point if you ever had one. Has anybody ever told you that you talk too much?
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