"This is obviously a wonderful idea (that’s why we suggested it). I think you told Greg all you can tell him, unless you want to tell him that we’re taking guidance plan suggestions.”
The "Smoking Gun" in the IRS scandal.
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74 comments:
Corrupt government from top to bottom. That's the Chicago Way. Using the power of government to persecute and intimidate your opposition is the stuff of dictatorships. Rampant crony capitalism is the stuff of banana republics. Obama said he wanted to fundamentally change America. He is succeeding.
The gun wasn't smoking when Lois Lerner admitted the IRS targeted for extra scrutiny groups with "Patriot" and "Tea Party" in their names and then pled the Fifth?
The "weaponization" of the IRS proceeds apace.
and we don't even know that this is all.
The Ways and Means committee isn't sure if this was included in the emails they subpeonaed, it was obtained through a FOIA by a third party.
But there isn't "even a smidgen of corruption"
As this scandal slowly comes out I doubt that Lerner is going to take a bullet for the team. If the Republicans win the Senate in November starting next January there is going to be a number of Congressional investigations that wil result in an endless drumbeat of scandals for the Democrats in 2015 and 2016. Obama may well turn out to be the Democrat's Nixon.
What does it matter now anyway?
The USA is well on its way to Venezuela.
And these are just the things that were written down. God knows what other things were communicated on a verbal basis.
We will need to build a new prison to hold all the people that should go to jail over this. We'll call it the Obama Library.
Obama said that there is not even a smidgen Of corruption in this IRS deal, and that has been confirmed by garage, so move along!
That'd matter...if the DoJ wasn't as politicized as it has ever been in history.
cubanbob said...
Obama may well turn out to be the Democrat's Nixon.
Wishful thinking. Nixon resigned because Republicans refused to support him. Maybe Democrats of that time would have acted similarly, but there's zero chance today's Democrats will choose integrity over ideology. That's the entire point of By Any Means Necessary.
It's not quite conclusive, but given the fact that these folks know well not to put their actual motives and actions into writing, it's surprisingly damning.
People like Lerner do not have to be told how to favor the partisan interests of their patrons. They know what they are supposed to do, and they know that they are not supposed to create lines of evidence that run to their superiors or their patrons.
They also know how to shut down the potential problems. Cindy Nelson, who was the top IRS official at Cincinatti, is no longer working there. (She is the one who sent the angry email to Lerner about Lerner's throwing the so called "low level employees" at Cincinatti under the bus as the culprits.)
Where is Cindy now? She is a "special technical advisor" to the Head of the Department of Exempt Organizations at the IRS. She no longer has a set portfolio of duties, and does only what the Director wants her to do, in a very close place where she can be watched carefully.
We are overdue for a new round of "civil service" reform. It will be a hell of a battle if it ever comes, but in the meantime the bureaucrats have to be suspect every time they act.
The key to understanding American governmental corruption is that most of it is legal. Quite a clever system.
The problem with Putin and Assad is they distract the Obama administration from focussing on The Main Enemy.
Marshal, and Democratic voters won't care. The youth opinion on the corruption seems to be 'everyone does it, so it might as well be our guy.' They're impervious to historical evidence that everyone does NOT do it, at least in the USA....
The Manchurian Candidate needs to be updated, with a new ending where he succeeds in making America part of the Communist Bloc.
Wait, is there a "War on Women" angle? No? Then who gives a shit? Certainly not the media.
Do you care to offer an opinion on the current DOJ and how it stacks up against the DOJ under prior administrations, Prof? I would give you mine but since Holder heads the dept. I run some risk of having my comments come across as "ugly."
Obama said that there is not even a smidgen Of corruption in this IRS deal, and that has been confirmed by garage, so move along!
Yawn. Wake me when Obama has a criminal defense fund or people around him are sent to prison. And really, if Obama is as corrupt as you say why no impeachment hearings? At least recallers had the stones to do what they thought was right.
"The USA is well on its way to Venezuela."
Correctamente!
I am already hoarding toilet paper, and hope to be America's "Mr. Big" by cornering the Charmin' Extra Strong market.
"Peter Roff is a contributing editor at U.S. News & World Report. Formerly a senior political writer for United Press International, he's now affiliated with several public policy organizations including Let Freedom Ring, and Frontiers of Freedom. His writing has appeared in National Review, Fox News' opinion section, The Daily Caller, Politico and elsewhere. Follow him on Twitter @PeterRoff."
Ha.
They put Martha Stewart in jail on much, much less.
Illuninati said...
The USA is well on its way to Venezuela.
To paraphrase the InstaPundit, Right now, Venezuela may be a best case scenario.
My wife lived under the Marcos dictatorship in the Philippines. She has told me a great deal about what life was like then. This is exactly the kind of things totalitarian dictatorships do.
On a related note (via InstaPundit), this Onion piece would be even funnier if it didn't ring so true.
As much as I think that there was clearly abuse of power, I don't see how this is a smoking gun. There are rules regarding tax exempt status, and laws about filing false documents. Those should be enforced, and if the rules are specifically related to political activity then intentionally doing so before an election cycle is reasonable.
The problem is that they were selectively enforcing the rules against conservative sounding organizations. Find an email acknowledging that, or recognizing a political advantage for Democrats in their actions, and you would have a smoking gun.
Sometime between my first presidential vote (for Ford) and now, the federal government has become completely unmoored from any adherence to the constitution and the rule of law. We are ruled by faceless bureaucracies and politicians who fight to sit at the top of the organization chart. After all, being on top of the organization chart gives you a 50/50 chance of controlling the bureaucracy and a 100% chance of unjustly enriching yourself at the expense of the taxpayers. The courts play word games to justify the policy outcomes they think their decisions will produce. The congress cedes all it's powers to the rule-makers. And the rule makers game the system to increase their power and decrease their accountability.
The American public has mostly moved on. Like the John Doe, failure to produce evidence and charges for the first year of outrage about it ends up with a disinterested populace.
Outside of partisans, no one cares. Sorry, you blew the rollout (like Obamacare and John Doe). In today's media world, you botch that and the narrative gets written based on the rollout.
Like Benghazi, your average person doesn't care any more. Too much hype early loses people's attention when the meat of the matter comes to light.
35 Jobz!!!!!11!!!1!!!!!
Righty cliches flowing thick and fast today. We need a more balanced set of commentators so that this kind of nonsense doesn't go unchallenged quite so regularly. Ultimately it will bring down the tone of the entire blog. It will degenerate into a place where old guys go simply to repeat the cliches they heard on Fox, Drudge, etc.
Issa has been all over this for years and has provided exactly no evidence of deliberate wrong doing. Even Krauthammer has given up on this particularly conspiracy theory.
I was too lazy t read the linked article, but since when are smoking guns filed as opinion pieces with question marks in the title?
"Issa has been all over this for years"
It's day 343 since Lerner made her admission that conservative groups had been singled out.
But I understand why you want to make it all go away.
Just remember, if it's ok for this administration to do it, what happens when the pendulum swings back the other way?
"Yawn. Wake me when Obama has a criminal defense fund or people around him are sent to prison. And really, if Obama is as corrupt as you say why no impeachment hearings? At least recallers had the stones to do what they thought was right."
He does not have to be involved. That is the point. The underlings know what to do, and they know not to involve anyone that high up.
Republicans do the same thing. (Iran-Contra?) You just fail to see it when your faves are in power.
4/17/14, 12:01 PM
garage mahal said...
Obama said that there is not even a smidgen Of corruption in this IRS deal, and that has been confirmed by garage, so move along!
Yawn. Wake me when Obama has a criminal defense fund or people around him are sent to prison. And really, if Obama is as corrupt as you say why no impeachment hearings?
You forget, Zero has the "Crack Emcee" get out of jail free card.
garage ignores the obvious then acts like he's scored "look at how smart I am and how wrong you are" points.
Mark said...
Like Benghazi, your average person doesn't care any more.
Because there is nothing there. They care that their kids have health insurance, that their retirement portfolio has recovered and that their house is worth more than their mortgage.
It's good that the Republicans keep at this, because it brings about a side of the electorate that would normally not vote, or perhaps vote for Democrats to screw the evil Republicans. It's the pox on both of their houses sort.
But if anyone thinks that anything real and substantial is going to come of this, they are deluding themselves.
There is a simple law in politics of the Murphy's Law sort.
Being a Democrat means never having to say you're sorry.
I remember quite vividly back in the 1990's when the rumor of a blue dress first came out. Talking heads were so shocked that they wouldn't even allow such a rumor to be discussed. If you brought it up, you were the equivalent of today's 9/11 truthers, or a birther. They shut you down immediately.
Approximately 6 months later, when it was established as fact, everyone did it. Kennedy, Washington, all the Presidents screwed girls who weren't their wives, it was common place.
And ever since, that is the standard Democrat defense for everything. Caught lying? Everyone does it. Caught cheating on your spouse? Everyone does it. Political corruption by the IRS? Everyone does it.
Right now, Garage and others here are calling it a conspiracy theory. But I promise everyone on this blog, that if it ever moves from conspiracy theory to solid fact, they will simply move the goal posts to, "Everyone does it. Move along."
I'd rather be a public servant and get a shoe thrown at me than a private citizen getting the IRs and DOJ thrown at me.
Ignorance is Bliss said...
The problem is that they were selectively enforcing the rules against conservative sounding organizations. Find an email acknowledging that
We don't need email to "acknowledge" this, the facts already demonstrate it. The small number of leftist groups which were initially selected were shortly thereafter passed through the process. The much larger number of Tea Party and other rightist groups were held indefinitely - until after the scandal broke.
"And really, if Obama is as corrupt as you say why no impeachment hearings?"
Same reason the skinheads wont kill him - impeachment would make him a martyr.
Impeach the first black president? He's immune. And Bumblefuck Biden is back-up insurance. He'd likely push the wrong button and launch all our ICBMs at Russia.
These are the words from the emails that I would find most compelling were I in charge of prosecuting this matter:
"This is their latest push to shut these down. One IRS prosecution would make an impact and they wouldn’t fell so comfortable doing the stuff."
These two sentences include the purpose of the action and the intended effect.
Jail, tar, feathers.
Impeachment (based on Watergate)
ARM:
I can understand why you are an apologist for this kind of thing. Perfectly OK. Just hold that thought when the shoe is on the other foot. Which it will be.
You would think that a reasonable man would be concerned with the very hint that the IRS would be engaged in this kind of singling out for political reasons. Our very own president when first presented with the news was forceful in his condemnation. As with gay marriage he had an awakening when his base informed him of what was or was not authentic. His initial revulsion, real or feigned, was what a reasonable man would display. Good to see your creds as a reasonable person or a classic liberal are ether.
You forget, Zero has the "Crack Emcee" get out of jail free card.
Some constitution protectors you guys turned out to be. What are you good for?
I used to think garage and ARM to be nothing but "useful idiots." But I've changed my mind: They're simply just idiots.
Issa has been all over this for years and has provided exactly no evidence of deliberate wrong doing.
New Standard Alert: you must be able to prove wrongdoing before the investigation.
Funny how a refusal to provide the documents or testify impedes the facts coming out.
Garage and AReasonableMan,
I'm guessing that every civilization and country that ever collapsed had more than its fair share of people like you. Carry on.
I'm guessing that every civilization and country that ever collapsed had more than its fair share of people like you. Carry on.
What are you doing about the collapse of our civilization? What are Republicans in Congress doing about it? NOTHING.
why no impeachment hearings
Because the democrats don't have an ounce of integrity between them, and the president can't be convicted and removed from office without them.
garage mahal said...
"Yawn. Wake me when Obama has a criminal defense fund or people around him are sent to prison. And really, if Obama is as corrupt as you say why no impeachment hearings?"
When it comes to Democrat corruption this is a splendid example of how the typical Democrat thinks. It doesn't matter how corrupt the Democrat rulers become, if they can rig the system to avoid conviction in court, they are in the clear. The more corrupt the leaders become the less likely they are to be prosecuted and the more satisfied the average Democrat becomes.
It's worth keeping in mind the bureaucrats, including Lerner, were also exchanging their strategies using private outside email accounts, including under pseudonyms. What about those emails?
"And really, if Obama is as corrupt as you say why no impeachment hearings?"
Do you not understand that impeachment is a two part process?
My my, the schools are certainly doing a poor job of teaching our system of governmental checks and balances these days. Wonder why that is? In any case, the House votes on articles of impeachment. If the President is impeached (accused) in the House, there is then a trial in the Senate.
Which Party is in control of the Senate?
garage mahal said...
Obama said that there is not even a smidgen Of corruption in this IRS deal, and that has been confirmed by garage, so move along!
Yawn. Wake me when Obama has a criminal defense fund or people around him are sent to prison. And really, if Obama is as corrupt as you say why no impeachment hearings? At least recallers had the stones to do what they thought was right.
First Walker never had a criminal defense fund, as he was never charged with any crime, accused of any crime, or even was the target of the investigation. Despite years of investigation and millions and million of dollars spent. How do we know that? Investigators said so. But you want all to believe that you know something that investigators missed.
Second, as far as those around him, two where convicted specifically because of Walker's office starting the investigation.
Of the rest, only one had anything to do with Walker...again, no link found at all. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Of course this was before you and a hoard of smelly overweight morons with Dorito stained fingers had a chance to pour through the emails, so there that.
None of those involved pleaded the fifth, all actually cooperated with investigators.
And Holder charging anyone with anything? He won't even turn over documents to investigators.
Finally, I'm not sure what "stones" it takes to start a recall, and Walker was recalled because lefties didn't like his policies...how this is supposed to compare to a impeachment and criminality only your alcohol addled mind knows.
W h at if Lerner really rhought that these groups were breaking the law? Referring to doj would be expected, no?
Perhaps all of us here need to read Dan Kahan's work.
here is a place to start.
"First Walker never had a criminal defense fund, as he was never charged with any crime, accused of any crime, or even was the target of the investigation."
So what?
The point here isn't that the Obama administrations unlawfulness is the same as Walkers.
The point is, "Squirrel!"
"Do you not understand that impeachment is a two part process?"
Maybe Garage thinks only Republicans are partisan hacks, Democrats are pure as the driven snow.
Therefore, if there was any criminal behavior here, surely Obama would be impeached. They'd never be involved, or help him cover up the harassment of Tea Party and Conservative groups. That's what Republicans do, not Democrats.
No impeachment hearings means he hasn't done anything wrong.
First Walker never had a criminal defense fund
Indeed he did. Walker is the first ever Wisconsin governor to have one In an earlier John Doe probe, Walker's campaign paid nearly $650,000 for lawyers representing the governor and his campaign committee.
In addition, Walker set up a defense fund that dispensed $432,754 to the Chicago and Milwaukee firms for which his two criminal defense lawyers worked. A boutique Madison law firm and APCO Worldwide, a Chicago-based public relations firm, received another $15,000 from Walker's defense account.
$650,000. Pretty expensive "compliance/administrative" fees for never being a target, eh?
Marshal said...
New Standard Alert: you must be able to prove wrongdoing before the investigation.
This is nonsense. Issa has been investigating/fishing for years. His sole achievement to date has been to hurt the Republican brand and now, finally, to discourage the wing-nuts with his lack of progress. To say he hasn't been investigating is nuts. The thing that is lacking is some wrongdoing on the part of the president. But that's not going to stop the partisan hacks from going on and on about the supposed 'scandals'. When Krauthammer says it time to pack it in it probably wasn't ever a good idea.
W h at if Lerner really rhought that these groups were breaking the law? Referring to doj would be expected, no?
Sure...but then pleading the fifth wouldn't be expected.
roundeye said...
What if Lerner really thought that these groups were breaking the law
Doesn't this show the need to replace the IRS leadership?
The targeted groups weren't doing anything different from thousands of leftist groups. Yet they were targeted by name while the leftist groups were not, and the leftist groups caught in the dragnet were quickly extricated.
Defending the IRS by saying she believed this treatment was correct is accepting this ideologically driven harassment.
Out of the mouths of partisan hacks:
"being a target"
[drops mic]
"AReasonableMan said...
This is nonsense. Issa has been investigating/fishing for years. His sole achievement to date has been to hurt the Republican brand and now, finally, to discourage the wing-nuts with his lack of progress. To say he hasn't been investigating is nuts. The thing that is lacking is some wrongdoing on the part of the president. But that's not going to stop the partisan hacks from going on and on about the supposed 'scandals'. When Krauthammer says it time to pack it in it probably wasn't ever a good idea."
Your statement regarding Krauthammer is a steaming pile of shit.
Read the article together with this story about Catherine Engelbrecht's True the Vote organization. After she filed for a c4 exemption she and her business were visited not just by the IRS but also the FBI, OSHA, and the ATF. Stunning. No longer the land of the free and the home of the brave.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/348756/true-scandal-jillian-kay-melchior
@garage,
Yawn. Wake me when Obama has a criminal defense fund or people around him are sent to prison
Rod Blagojevich, Tony Rezko.
No "Obama Criminal Defense Fund" yet, but those two men have been investigated for corruption and been to prison.
Curious George said...
Your statement regarding Krauthammer is a steaming pile of shit.
Don't blame the messenger.
AReasonableMan said...
To say he hasn't been investigating is nuts.
So Lerner hasn't testified and only recently was any correspondence made available under FOIA. So ARM believes not being allowed to review the evidence is investigating, but when the evidence does become available investigating must stop.
Luckily ARM is here to balance out folks who think investigating includes looking at the evidence.
The thing that is lacking is some wrongdoing on the part of the president.
Why compartmentalize? We're to believe it's ok the IRS harassed groups for ideological or partisan reasons as long as the President didn't give the order himself?
It's a strange strange world out on the left.
"AReasonableMan said...
Curious George said...
Your statement regarding Krauthammer is a steaming pile of shit.
Don't blame the messenger."
It's bullshit. Krauthammer has made no such assertion.
ARM (blogger since 2013 to distinguish him from ARM with the Aristotle avatar)
Krauthammer was referring to Benghazi, not the IRS scandal. Up your game. That's not shooting the messenger. That's shooting the ignorant (at best), shooting the mendacious more likely.
At least the trolls have progressed to "yawn." I take that as an improvement over the long discredited "the left was targeted too."
I only fear that they will once again run out the clock. Claiming Issa or anyone has had a fair chance to investigate is a joke when the objects of the investigation can stonewall, sit on the evidence, and have their allies in charge of the DOJ.
Jason,
"They put Martha Stewart in jail on nothing at all."
FIFY.
This is nonsense. Issa has been investigating/fishing for years.
And of course the administration, the IRS and Lerner have been cooperating and complying with Issa the whole time.
Typical Dem...get caught, conspire, lie, delay, withhold evidence, plead the fifth.....and then claim..."There's no there there!"
Next will be "that happened a long time ago..move on"
mesquito said...
The problem with Putin and Assad is they distract the Obama administration from focusing on The Main Enemy.
Bingo.
Once you understand that, Obama's administration is very predictable.
"What are Republicans in Congress doing about it? NOTHING."
Althouse's Law.
"And really, if Obama is as corrupt as you say why no impeachment hearings?"
The other reason that Obama will most likely not get impeached is that he has plausible deniability. He is the most hands off President in our lifetimes. This is the guy who went to bed early when our consulate in Benghazi was burning, so he would be rested for the fund raising trip out west the next day. You can't impeach him, because he really hasn't done anything wrong, except to create the environment by appointing zealots to run departments, and Eric Holder to control the prosecution apparatus. And, that is mere delection of duty. A sin of omission, and not of commission. And, that later is realistically what is required for impeachment.
GM said--Yawn. Wake me when Obama has a criminal defense fund or people around him are sent to prison. And really, if Obama is as corrupt as you say why no impeachment hearings? At least recallers had the stones to do what they thought was right.
It's because dumbasses like you that Zero isn't in Leavenworth already, you flaming schmuck.
NRO - Krauthammer said the case is diminished because Lerner was “never properly handled,” and that the only way forward is to grant her immunity (to compel her to speak), “otherwise [this] will go nowhere on this, and it will die.”
These are hardly the comments of someone who remains enthusiastic about this particular 'scandal'.
I bet all of the Dems who are yawning now were furiously masturbating when Scooter Libby was convicted and Armitrage walked free.
garage mahal said...
First Walker never had a criminal defense fund
Indeed he did. Walker is the first ever Wisconsin governor to have one In an earlier John Doe probe, Walker's campaign paid nearly $650,000 for lawyers representing the governor and his campaign committee.
In addition, Walker set up a defense fund that dispensed $432,754 to the Chicago and Milwaukee firms for which his two criminal defense lawyers worked. A boutique Madison law firm and APCO Worldwide, a Chicago-based public relations firm, received another $15,000 from Walker's defense account.
$650,000. Pretty expensive "compliance/administrative" fees for never being a target, eh?
Yawn. Show me any statement by any official party that Walker was under investigation.
Years of investigation. Millions spent. Nothing. And no one please the fifth.
ARM - You are correct. Dr. K said that BEFORE the most recent emails came out. He might think a bit differently now.
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