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२१० टिप्पण्या:
210 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Who does his hair??
Hair Club for Men.
In this context, he is doubly wrong
State doesn't control the Marines that would have come from out of country to Benghazi
The Marines incountry, Tripoli for example, have a clearcut mission
Their top priority is not safeguarding diplomats. That is the function of State's DSG.
The Embassy Marines have the primary mission of buying enough time with their lives for the NSA crypie's and the CIA to burn their files and destroy the crypto gear.
If the best way is to secure the walls, they secure the walls.
If the best way is to fall back to the main building they fall back
If the best way is to guard the crypto vault door, they die in front of the door.
Diplomatic security is State's job.
At least he is not timid.
Run Rand run ran ...
According to the USMC:
"The embassy in Tripoli and the consulate in Benghazi do not have a MCESG detachment. A FAST platoon [temporary assignment] deployed to Libya ...12 Sep 12 to provide security for the U.S. Embassy in Tripoli."
So Marines were not even deployed to Benghazi after the fact.
To the shores of Tripoli......
Hillary made a big mistake by not coming forward with the truth during the hearings. In fact, she should have resigned before the election over Benghazi instead of all that lying. Now the WH is dumping on her, (see the famous lefty Eli Lake throw the CIA and State under the bus to curry favor with the WH or following their orders) and the republicans will dump on her more. I feel sorry for her. Meanwhile Obama goes untouched.
pm317 said...
Meanwhile Obama goes untouched.
Because he is no longer up for reelection.
Not to imply that this is entirely political in nature.
Diplomatic security is State's job.
You make it sound like they were calling for pizza.
Drill Sgt: I appreciate your domain knowledge as ever.
However, I can't tell whether RP is asking a specific question or expressing generic exasperation.
People say "Send the Marines" in contexts where it means "Take serious, immediate and effective action."
At the level I agree with RP. Where in the hell were the Marines?
I suspect it is ultimately a question for the Commander-in-Chief, not the Secretary of State.
So far in these investigations no one is asking that question.
Apparently they called and Hillary didn't answer...
But Marines don't do those calls.
With Hill calling DoD at least...
I have not heard that Hill was screaming on the phone to Leon asking for Marines....
Rand Paul, a very mainstream guy.
Creely, if you want to rope Hill into my the critism about the "during" errors, then the issue should focus on why she and Panetta never talked...
She had no Marines. Leon did...
An apt(that is-effective) metaphor for the entire mess.While Drill SGT is correct,in popular parlance an appropiate military response is colloquially ""Send in the Marines".and the Marines are no where around.
One of the consequences of Obamas' election is the lowering of the bar.
We now have Rubio, Cruz and Rand Paul mentioned as possible Presidential candidates. All smart guys no doubt, but without much time and experience in office.
I may be wrong, but it seems most past presidential candidates had been Governors or vice presidents.
Obama came in with no major accomplishments and a fairly vague personal history.
Now all that is needed to be in charge of the greatest country in history is the ability to win elections, not the ability to govern.
She had no Marines. Leon did...
If the WH was working on a cover story of garden variety protest/demonstration, why would Hillary call the marines and upset the WH's apple cart? Duh..So moral of the story, Obama and his minions wanted to play down the attack and the response to it too so he can get reelected (by fools) -- that is the crime here.
Panetta saying early in the debacle that he and the pentagon did what they were told to do is a tell.
Drill SGT.This is a question I would like to ask Hil in a small closed room. "After the SHTF did you even consider anything other than CYA?"Could be one possible answer why she didn't ask her ole buddy Leon for some Marines.(or any other doorkickers).
Drill SGT: OK. But what's the scenario?
Obama says take care of it and goes to bed to be rested for the fundraiser the next day.
Doesn't Panetta swing into action with or without Hillary's input?
I can't visualize this in any way that makes sense except for a political calculation by Obama to throw Stevens under the bus and hope that it's over quick.
If they were saying... look this is the first time something like this has ever happened, we were caught flat footed... that would be one thing.
But they aren't saying that.
They are saying things you might hear at a police academy movie.
pm317 says:(see the famous lefty Eli Lake throw the CIA and State under the bus to curry favor with the WH or following their orders)
You mean the famous lefty Eli Lake who used to write for the Washington Times (not Post, Times) and is generally considered in DC circles to be a staunch foreign policy conservative? That Eli Lake? Keep playing it smart!
So the conservative want a pro amnesty guy. Great. There goes another election down the tubes.
I hate to get in a fight with a Drill SGT over this but he is/was Army so I'll move on from there.
The SGT is correct that protecting classified information and equipment is the primary goal of the Marine Security Guards. A strong secondary mission is to US Government property and citizens. The Marine Security Guards work under the command of the Diplomatic Security Service (State Department) and do what they are ordered to do. Neither of the Marine Security Guards goals were achieved in Benghazi because there was not a detachment on site.
Drill SGT is correct that State would not have had command of Marines that would have come from out of the country. That would have been DOD and there was a Marine QRF that would have probably been the first on the ground. The fact that DOD did not give orders for this response takes it out of Clinton's hands ad lays it at the feet of Leon Panetta (SECDEF) and Obama, who are at the top of the chain of command.
All of that said, Clinton is the Captain of the State Department ship and her folks died on her watch. She is ultimately responsible for their security.
And even if Hillary can't send the Marines, she can damn well know where they are and when they are coming to rescue her people.
Or if not, why the Marines aren't coming.
I'm really tired of all these high-level folks, including Petraeus, doing their CYA and pretending they have no idea how rescuing an American ambassador under attack fell through the cracks.
They did absolutely nothing except send a drone and watch the attack.
What he really means is send in an SMU - Delta, DEvGru, the Rangers.
somefeller said...
(see the famous lefty Eli Lake throw the CIA and State under the bus to curry favor with the WH or following their orders)
You mean the famous lefty Eli Lake who used to write for the Washington Times (not Post, Times) and is generally considered in DC circles to be a staunch foreign policy conservative? That Eli Lake? Keep playing it smart!
No, she means the Newsweek/Daily Beast senior foreign correspondent.
Sounds like a real Bircher.
Dante said...
So the conservative want a pro amnesty guy. Great. There goes another election down the tubes.
Last I saw, he likened it to BarryCare.
Don't Marines normally guard consulates, or become available anywhere in the world within minutes??
No Randy, but, hey, maybe some stupid fucker in Iowa might buy it and vote for you in four years!
garage some people call those stupid fuckers in Iowa(wait for it)-voters.
The USMC has an actual Embassy Security Group, commanded by a Colonel.
From Wikipedia:
"The primary mission of the MSG is to provide security, particularly the protection of classified information and equipment vital to the national security of the United States at American diplomatic posts. This is accomplished under the guidance and operational control of a civilian federal agent of the Diplomatic Security Service, known as the Regional Security Officer (RSO) who is the senior U.S. law enforcement representative and security attaché at U.S. diplomatic posts around the world.[5] In addition, MSGs provide security for visiting American dignitaries and frequently assist the RSO in supervising host country and/or locally employed security forces which provide additional security for the exterior of embassies. The MSGs fall under operational control of the RSO and are administratively controlled by the Marine Corps Embassy Security Group. The secondary mission of Marine Security Guards is to provide protection for U.S. citizens and U.S. Government property located within designated U.S. Diplomatic and Consular premises during exigent circumstances, which require immediate aid or action."
The DSS, by the way, is the law enforcement arm of what? The State Department. As SecState, Hillary is in charge of the DSS the same way the AG is in charge of the FBI.
Further, Hillary said--right after the attack--that embassy security was her job. There have also been news reports that she refused requests for extra security.
Don't Marines normally guard consulates, or become available anywhere in the world within minutes??
garage: If not the Marines, the US military does have the ability to be available just about anywhere in the world with an hour.
We did have a drone there to watch those Americans die. We could certainly have sent a jet in to make some sonic booms and maybe buy a little time.
But the military under the guy elected by shameless morons like yourself did nothing. We did nothing.
So far as I can tell that's A-OK with you. All you care about is giving cover for this failure.
The poster known as Moronic Fuckwad (or garage, if you prefer) said this:
"Don't Marines normally guard consulates, or become available anywhere in the world within minutes??
No Randy, but, hey, maybe some stupid fucker in Iowa might buy it and vote for you in four years!"
The reply is...http://www.mcesg.marines.mil/UnitHome.aspx
And I don't feel like taking the time to make it a clickable link for you you stupid lying piece of excrement.
So yeah--the USMC guards consulates.
From their mission statement at the ESG home:
"The primary mission of the Marine Security Guard (MSG) is to provide internal security at designated U.S. diplomatic and consular facilities in order to prevent the compromise of classified material vital to the national security of the United States. The secondary mission of the MSG is to provide protection for U.S. citizens and U.S government property located within designated U.S. diplomatic and consular premises during exigent circumstances (urgent temporary circumstances which require immediate aid or action). "
You stupid cunt.
I may be wrong, but it seems most past presidential candidates had been Governors or vice presidents.
Washington? Lincoln?
Sometimes the best candidate is someone who hasn't yet been tainted by years of living the life political. Just as in monarchies, the best monarchs are often those least expected to inherit the throne. (Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Victoria)
Garage, I've read your stuff before and never quite know if you are serious. When you say "Don't Marines normally guard consulates, or become available anywhere in the world within minutes??" I assume that you know that the Marines do in fact take a role in guarding Embassies and Consulates. I also assume you know that Marines aren't magical (contrary to their own belief) and do not appear instantaneously. Six hours is the response time the USMC brags about, but planning, readiness and prepositioning is an important factor here. Be nice to know if any of this took place and what sort of threat level there was in the run up to September 11th.
Drill SGT, Steve, CEO-MMP: Does knowing the exact chain of command explain what happened on 9-11/12?
I doubt the chain of command failed us. They just won't tell us what the orders were that night.
garage mahal said...
Don't Marines normally guard consulates, or become available anywhere in the world within minutes??
No Randy, but, hey, maybe some stupid fucker in Iowa might buy it and vote for you in four years!
As a matter of fact, they do.
Ever hear of MEU-SOCs?
There's probably one in the Mediterranean, although AFRICOM's SF guys and the CIA group were probably closer that night.
And, as CEO notes, "The secondary mission of Marine Security Guards is to provide protection for U.S. citizens and U.S. Government property located within designated U.S. Diplomatic and Consular premises during exigent circumstances, which require immediate aid or action".
The emphasis is mine, just so garage understands he's really walking into Wile E Coyote territory and would do well to pipe down before he makes a true fool of himself.
And, if we're talking about "stupid fuckers in Iowa" and the people they send to DC, one need look no farther than Tom Harkin.
No, she means the Newsweek/Daily Beast senior foreign correspondent. Sounds like a real Bircher.
Same person, genius. People who are knowledgable about politics (not you, obviously) know that Lake isn't a lefty. And one need not be a Bircher to be a conservative, obviously.
Earlier this week there was a viral video of Lake telling an imbecile C-SPAN caller to enjoy his basement and his conspiracies. Did you see that, edutcher? And if so, did you feel wounded when you saw the video and thus now harbor a dislike for Mr. Lake?
Steve, I think we agree. The operative question for Hill is:
Why she didn't take the second call from Hicks or insist that Panetta rescue her people?
Creeley,
What violates my understanding of military thinking is the utter lack of forces flowing into theater (e.g. Sigonella.
In my experience, many types of units, State DSG, Marines, FEST, SF, Delta, Figthers, AC-130's, etc, would have monitored the msg traffice and sounded "boots and Saddles", dusted off their version of response plans and strarted checking gear and hanging stuff from wings.
The sort of response I would expect is launching some of those forces in the direction of Sicily, and hoped the situation clarified.
My understanding is that Panetta, Dempsey and Hamm decided to ignore the Obama order to "do what it takes safegaurd our people"
Waht astonishes me is that if that is true, why when he woke up, Obama didn't have somebody's ass...
Paul's point about the Marines was in reference to the failure to provide adequate security at Benghazi prior to the attack despite the requests from staff.
You can hear that at the NBC link if you can get their video to run.
And, as quoted above, their diplomatic security mission does include protection for personnel and property..
somefeller Saw that that video.Every once in a while Someone will reach their limit on national TV and properly inform the public.I cheered that moment.Still think everyone kicked into CYA on Benghazi before they remembered to save anyone.
Look at the way NBC tells the story. The theme is established in the first paragraph: This is a partisan issue related to the 2016 election. The issue about what happened in Benghazi and why four Americans were killed is secondary (at best).
The MSM managed to duck or obscure the Benghazi story pretty effectively before the election. Now, some of them are getting more interested, and their latent reporter instincts tell them there's blood on the trail; but they still don't want to write anything that will help the evil Republicans. So this is what you get.
Drill Sgt I've asked myself that also.Wasn't there an Africom relief of one of Hamm's deputies within a couple of week?I know we don't know the whole story.
somefeller said...
No, she means the Newsweek/Daily Beast senior foreign correspondent. Sounds like a real Bircher.
Same person, genius. People who are knowledgable about politics (not you, obviously) know that Lake isn't a lefty.
Of course, some phony folksy knows everything about everything. It's just that, when he opens his mouth on Althouse, he can't back up any of it.
figure of speech, nitwit.
Earlier this week there was a viral video of Lake telling an imbecile C-SPAN caller to enjoy his basement and his conspiracies. Did you see that, edutcher? And if so, did you feel wounded when you saw the video and thus now harbor a dislike for Mr. Lake?
It was discussed here, as you well remember, lurking in Mom's basement, and it was widely reviled here, ninny.
Oh, and your hard right winger, this is what the Newsweek organization, long a conservative hideaway, has to say about him.
PS How about a little documentation for your bluster or is it just that, yet again, with nothing to back it up?
The pro-democrat hack media continues to spin and ignore the blaming of the entire massacre on a youtube video.
When I first saw Paul's "Where were the Marines?" comment, I interpreted it as referring to the lack of increased security at the consulate before the attack. Although I know that increased security wouldn't necessarily have meant a Marine detachment, we are used to the romantic notion of Marines protecting our overseas installations (and beyond: "They shall find her [Heaven's] portals guarded by the United States Marines"), so that seemed to me a powerful way of saying: Why didn't you provide increased security at this vulnerable mission?
From what I've heard so far, the failure of State to provide increased security at Benghazi before the attack is the most clear cut error (a FUBAR, really) by our government in this sad affair.
My understanding is that Panetta, Dempsey and Hamm decided to ignore the Obama order to "do what it takes safegaurd our people"
Waht astonishes me is that if that is true, why when he woke up, Obama didn't have somebody's ass...
Drill Sgt: It astonishes me as well. I can't imagine why Panette et al. would make such a decision.
However, I can understand why Obama would.
By Occam's Razor, I lay this one at Obama's feet barring persuasive argument to the contrary.
Garage- as usual you are so blinded by your bad faith and corruptocrat-worship, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
Care to explain to the class why the democrat party insisted the massacre happened because of a youtube video and a non-existent flash mob.
hmm?
Care to tell the class why the military was told to stand down after requests were made for back-up.
hmm?
What I find offensive is that liberals are getting the basic elements of Benghazi wrong almost continually. Deliberate or just stupidity it should not be borne.
Such as commenting that a F-16 wouldn't be able to drop smart bombs because there wasn't anyone there with a laser designator. When someone was and died for using it.
sydney said...
I may be wrong, but it seems most past presidential candidates had been Governors or vice presidents.
Washington? Lincoln?
Sometimes the best candidate is someone who hasn't yet been tainted by years of living the life political. Just as in monarchies, the best monarchs are often those least expected to inherit the throne. (Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Victoria)
=================
The original was wrong. I think what was implied was Governors, Generals, VPs, others with strong executive experience.
This mirrors the pattern in other nations where cadres with talent , skill, the potential for top leadership has to prove levels of popularity, navigate Party business well, have success in dealing with larger and larger "portfolios" that show executive management ability.
The move of the US to lawyers with little exec experience, nepotism, and "Elmer Gantry" sorts with little other than charisma, sex appeal, good hair or minority cache` - is a worrisome new thing that has given us some pretty bad leaders.
BTW - Lincoln was a true exec - after you are done with the cornpone courtroom stuff - he was a top level lawyer for the railroads that travelled with his own private train to hammer out deals with State legislators, Govs, portage and shipping concerns, Indian reservations. He was also a leader in the Whigs then one of the Founders of the Republican Party, and elected as a militia commander.
Harrogate - Hillary! the left's favorite mainstream liar.
She has a long history of being a liar. congrats.
S'all OK because the unprofessional hack a-hole media pimp her.
I see that Rabel made the same point before I did about what the "where were the Marines" comment meant. Right on Rabel!
Sorry about the HTML screw-up:
some phony folksy's bon mot:
And one need not be a Bircher to be a conservative, obviously.
To which I replied that I was employing a figure of speech.
It's dark in Mom's basement, I guess.
Where was Hillary during the attack is good rhetoric because it plays well with low information voters and those who think a Hollywood style rescue attempt would have saved the Hero Ambassador, his hero sidekick, and the two hero contractors 8 hours later.
The public will side with the Chairman of the JCS saying that rescue was impossible for the Ambassador or his aide given resources and time in - over rightwing radio talk jockeys. But the public may buy part of the "Failed Hero Rescue Mission" accusation.
At some point though, the more damaging area is not incompetence but trust. Hillary is looking more and more like the central liar and main orchestrator of the coverup. She lied to the families, she lied to Congress, she had her most loyal people hushing and threatening people to keep silent. She sent surrogates out to talk to media on talking points she knew were false.
Obama is reelected and like Nixon in 1972 it is over and done, but it will become a bigger and bigger black mark on him that he joined in the coverup to boost his reelection prospects. The liberals and progressive Jews that pull the strings for most national media and mass entertainment media will not consign their Black Messiah to a fate similar to Nixon, Packwood, John Tower. If anything - the media masters will give Obama even more of a pass than they gave John Edwards.
SGT,
I agree "Boots and Saddles" should have been the order. Where was the nearest carrier, the nearest AC-130 or the nearest Marine Expeditionary Unit? Hillary should kick Panetta in the nuts for not responding but Little Leon should kick her right back for not letting DOD know about any threats so they could have been ready to respond. Panetta said something like "you don't deploy military into unknown situations" which is the strongest argument I've ever seen for not having a lifelong civilian as SECDEF. Hajjis with a couple of mortars are no reason not to respond. Two former SEALs held them off for 10 hours, maybe another 4 Marines from the Tripoli QRF could have turned the tide or held them off till a company or two of Marines or an AC-130 was on station. Even an F14 screaming in overhead could have made them think twice about continuing the attack.
There are several interpretations of Paul's "Where were the Marines?" First, why was there no Marine Security in Benghazi before the attack? Second, why was there no response from Tripoli? and Third why weren't Marines helicoptering in from NAS Sigonella? There is plenty of blame to lay at State or DOD's feet. Maybe if they had a boss that made them plan ahead and take initiative we would still have a live Ambassador.
garage mahal said...
"Don't Marines normally guard consulates, or become available anywhere in the world within minutes??
No Randy, but, hey, maybe some stupid fucker in Iowa might buy it and vote for you in four years!"
5/11/13, 3:51 PM
This is the left. Four Americans died serving the country but don't ask any questions unless it is a Republican in office. The people like garage that are apologizing for this are stupid or awful people or both.
First we had previous warning that this was coming. Only a democrat could think that place was safe and effectively guarded. Your belief in fairies and unicorns is noted.
In the Horn of Africa we have a lot of assets. There was an AC-130 on station. There was an AC-130 there within an hour of the start of the attack. It could have cleared the attackers out by itself. The drone had a hellfire and could have disrupted the mortar position. There was a QRF force in Europe that had a 4 hour response time on target. All of these options could have been employed if our piece of shit president and the worst Secretary of State in history were even halfway decent human beings.
"Do what it takes to safeguard our people" was a statement made after the fact, when Obamam heard about it all. And we did that. We started moving military assets to embassies in danger after sept 12.
Question to Cedar (serious):
You make the point, "Hillary is looking more and more like the central liar and main orchestrator of the coverup. She lied to the families, she lied to Congress, she had her most loyal people hushing and threatening people to keep silent. She sent surrogates out to talk to media on talking points she knew were false".
OK, fine, because State staffers are coming forward and it reflects on her immediately, but Hillary had no real authority to say yea or nay (nor did Panetta, if we're going that far).
It was O that went to bed and jetted off to Vegas, instead of talking about it. He was the one who told the UN a scant 2 weeks later, the future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam, so he'd signed on to the Nakoula video nonsense.
He's the guy in charge. Now, we can all make the point that, a month away from the election, he didn't want to pick a fight with Willie.
But, at some point, Harry Truman's sign is not on Hillary's desk.
It's on Barry's.
True?
Even if the argument is that the marines don't guard people they guard paper, why were there no marines to guard the paper?
The question that is not asked by most and not explained at all is why was Amb. Stevens in Benghazi without security-in a compound that was innately unsecured to begin with-without a security detachment? Next is why wasn't any form of rescue or suppression of the terrorist even attempted? The assets were a available and relatively near by. We are supposed to believe that the SoS couldn't contact the SoD and at least try to make an effort? All the top people in the government knew what was going on yet the only effort made was a CYA for Obama whose ultimate fault this is.
Ran Paul is right. Where were the Marines? Benched on the sidelines by order of the CiC. Just like Bill fucked up at Mogadishu why are we surprised that Hill and Choom dodge responsibity for Benghazi.
Hilary can call the President, right?
The President has Marines. And all kinds of other stuff.
The President could have called Hilary.
Paneta could have called her. She could have called him.
Trying to pin this on just one person obscures the main problems of unpreparedness, lack of communication and lack of will. Of that they are all guilty.
They are all guilty of coverup too. Paneta could not have objected to the misleading narrative? Others as well.
Meanwhile, as Drill Sgt. points out, men name Rand who want to be President should know the territory before them flap their lips.
Edutcher babbles:It was discussed here, as you well remember, lurking in Mom's basement, and it was widely reviled here, ninny.
Most of the people commenting on that link who expressed an opinion supported Lake. You reviled him, but that's not saying much and doesn't constitute "widely reviled". Though I can see by your comment at that link that yes, Lake wounded you. The shock of recognition and all that.
Oh, and your hard right winger, this is what the Newsweek organization, long a conservative hideaway, has to say about him.
It doesn't say he's a lefty and by and large, lefties with any DC career ambition don't work for the Washington Times for part of their career.
PS How about a little documentation for your bluster or is it just that, yet again, with nothing to back it up?
Well, Logic 101 states that the burden of proof lies on he who asserts the positive, namely those who call Lake a leftist. But here's a hint, if you Google the words Eli Lake conservative (no quotes), you might find a thing or two.
Steve said: "The fact that DOD did not give orders for this response takes it out of Clinton's hands ad lays it at the feet of Leon Panetta (SECDEF) and Obama, who are at the top of the chain of command."
No. That allows them to play musical chairs gotcha and confuses everything. The point is that they are the three highest ranking people in the executive branch, all of whom have part of the responsibility for the embassy and its protection. They are supposed to communicate on important matters like this. Billions of dollars have been spent to enable them to do so.
Yet it seems that nobody could pick up a phone.
somefeller said...
Oh, and your hard right winger, this is what the Newsweek organization, long a conservative hideaway, has to say about him.
It doesn't say he's a lefty and by and large, lefties with any DC career ambition don't work for the Washington Times for part of their career.
And Conservatives don't work for Newsweek, either.
Or maybe we're talking about the David Brooks variety.
PS How about a little documentation for your bluster or is it just that, yet again, with nothing to back it up?
Well, Logic 101 states that the burden of proof lies on he who asserts the positive, namely those who call Lake a leftist. But here's a hint, if you Google the words Eli Lake conservative (no quotes), you might find a thing or two.
In other words, nothing; no rebuttal.
As always.
I googled eli lake and got Newsweek. Funny that.
some phony folksy shoots off his mouth without checking to see if there's any ammo and then hides when he's called on it.
Did this last Sunday, too.
Well, Troll Central is down to the dregs this week after those hearings.
FEST wasn't called. Nobody was called and Obama went to bed. The decision was made when Obama checked out. He is responsible.
David said...
Meanwhile, as Drill Sgt. points out, men name Rand who want to be President should know the territory before them flap their lips.
I know I disagree with Drill at my peril, but I think Rand Paul was employing a metaphor (this was in a speech, after all) as much as anything.
Ask people who Special Forces are, most don't know.
The Rangers? Don't they work in the National Parks?
Everybody who ever saw a John Wayne movie (and that's almost everybody) knows the Marines.
Well, edutcher, if your research and reading comprehension skills were barely competent, you'd be someone other than who you are now. Can't really help you there, even by leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for you to follow (and Google).
But it is funny to read how Lake obviously cut you to the quick with one pithy comment on C-SPAN and apparently that's created one more grudge for you. As the wonderful French say, it is to laugh.
You know, the MC hymn has something like the shores of Tripoli. And they do have that symbol of eagle, globe, anchor, for air, land, sea.
Steve, though I agree WRT to F1-6 or F18's, there are no F-14's anymore
david,
I think to yout list of 3, you ned to add the Director, CIA. It was his outpost, and the first call likely came into his global ops center.
certainly, the CRITIC would have been sent by the onsite CIA to all the leadership...
I don't think the lying is about the attack on Sept. 11 as much as it is about why these Americans were in Benghazi to start with, and what they were doing there. It may be that other Departments of the U.S. Government were not supposed to know either, and would not be all that happy if they were to find out, which they might as a result of the attack and the publicity. Not to mention the media and the rest of us.
gspencer,
The eagle represents the proud nation the Marines defend. The Eagle was part of the EGA well before the Wright Brothers flew.
But yes, they have helicopters and Ospreys which will land on a dime.
somefeller said...
Well, edutcher, if your research and reading comprehension skills were barely competent, you'd be someone other than who you are now. Can't really help you there, even by leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for you to follow (and Google).
In other words, nada.
Documentation is beneath him.
But it is funny to read how Lake obviously cut you to the quick with one pithy comment on C-SPAN and apparently that's created one more grudge for you. As the wonderful French say, it is to laugh.
Considering all I did was back up pm317's assertion, I'd say you're the one who's cut to the quick, apparently by the fact I've once again called you on something, and in need of remedial reading comprehension training yourself.
You're reading a lot into that, but you do have little else to do, living and lurking in your own little world there in Mom's basement.
SGT,
You are correct the F14 has been gone for a while now. The F15's are only a key away and would have come with the AC130's for CAP.
David,
I wasn't trying to allow anyone to "play musical chairs." There is a chain of command and the DOD takes it pretty seriously. There is more than enough failure to go around.
The fact is, there was a contingent of DOD security forces in Tripoli assigned to embassy security that were removed approximately a month before the attack...amidst the cries by Stevens for more security.
Some sort of "joint agreement" between DOD and State.
Marines and special forces.
Feel free to review the testimony given in the previous Congressional hearing, namely that of Eric Nordstrom, a diplomatic security officer who was the regional security officer in Libya.
The lying about who did or did not order a rescue mission is normal.
The inexplicable is the immediate insistence that "terrorists" had nothing to do with it; it was just a local riot due to that silly video, and then the continued insistence on that story despite it being almost immediately disproved. That is a very curious thing and had ought to be inquired into.
But, at some point, Harry Truman's sign is not on Hillary's desk.
It's on Barry's.
True?
--------------------
True, but largely irrelevant except it will be another black mark on Obama's time as infatuation with The One ends, and he stands on the facts as another dismal President like Carter and Dubya.
But the scandal will not precipitate his resigning as a steady drumbeat of liberal and progressive jewish puppeteers of public opinion call for his head the same way they kept it up over Watergate to do in their great enemy, Nixon. Benghazi is objectively worse than Watergate - but the Masters of the media will not betray their black Messiah.
That leaves Hillary - and it is relevant because making her unacceptable as a 2016 candidate is doable.
Obama sold the Libya war as an Air Support ONLY war. All that Air Support and Combat Support available in theater and narry one aircraft or one armed Drone for Benghazi...
There were Hard Charging Marines available, ready to go, and closer than you know...
When executing a rescue mission to save American lives under attack, you never consider a Stand Down order on the off chance that it will be over before you get there, unless you never intended to go in the first place.
Not since 1979 during Carter's miserable excuse of an administration has a U.S. Ambassador been murdered in the line of duty. Every other President would have moved heaven & earth to rescue those people.
Not this Commander in Chief. Not Obama.
Edutcher flails:In other words, nada. Documentation is beneath him.
Not at all. Documentation is what I do for a living, being a lawyer and all. But I also provided some breadcrumbs and basic lessons in logic, which are useful to those who can use them.
Considering all I did was back up pm317's assertion, I'd say you're the one who's cut to the quick, apparently by the fact I've once again called you on something, and in need of remedial reading comprehension training yourself. You're reading a lot into that, but you do have little else to do, living and lurking in your own little world there in Mom's basement.
I was obviously also referring to the comment on the link you pointed me to as well as comments here. It's obvious by that comment and the ones you have here that Lake is now one more person who has painfully reminded you of your place on the food chain. And you are a fine one to talk regarding readings and assumptions, that's also funny. But good job repeating your favorite cliche at the end there!
Hagar points to the real question, which is "what the hell was going on?"
There is something big here. These politicos would not waste so much power if not.
Cedarford said...
But, at some point, Harry Truman's sign is not on Hillary's desk.
It's on Barry's.
True?
But the scandal will not precipitate his resigning as a steady drumbeat of liberal and progressive jewish puppeteers of public opinion call for his head the same way they kept it up over Watergate to do in their great enemy, Nixon.
The Democrat Party has no responsible adults the way the Republicans did or Willie would have been asked to resign and, no, Choom would never resign.
It's not the Chicago Way and certainly no the Gospel According to Uncle Saul.
My point is that we're seeing this Gang slowly coming apart at the seams and, once ObamaTax begins to be truly felt economically, the climate in this country may turn in a way we haven't seen in a long time. At that point, all roads would appear to lead to Choom. Hillary! would be roadkill by then.
How long would it have taken a couple of our high performance jets to get there and do a low flyover of that crowd of screaming terrorists, complelte with sonic boom? And if that didn't work, a couple of rockets surely would have.
All of Hillary's thinking, if you want to call it that, relating to Benghazi hinged on whether Huma would be angered and deny Hillary her favors or be pleased and grant them to Hillary. Muslims cannot be the villains in Hillaryworld lest she lose Humahoneypot. And when Althouse makes her historic ecstatic identity vote for Hillary in 2016 she'll be voting for the total control of American foreign policy and much of American domestic policy by the Saudis. But the vote will have been HISTORIC! And that's all that counts.
How long would it have taken a couple of our high performance jets to get there and do a low flyover of that crowd of screaming terrorists, complelte with sonic boom? And if that didn't work, a couple of rockets surely would have.
somefeller said...
In other words, nada. Documentation is beneath him.
Not at all. Documentation is what I do for a living, being a lawyer and all. But I also provided some breadcrumbs and basic lessons in logic, which are useful to those who can use them.
Yes, we've all heard you drop the occasional name, but anybody can claim to be whatever they want. As for documentation, again, where it counts, you're not there.
Considering all I did was back up pm317's assertion, I'd say you're the one who's cut to the quick, apparently by the fact I've once again called you on something, and in need of remedial reading comprehension training yourself. You're reading a lot into that, but you do have little else to do, living and lurking in your own little world there in Mom's basement.
I was obviously also referring to the comment on the link you pointed me to as well as comments here. It's obvious by that comment and the ones you have here that Lake is now one more person who has painfully reminded you of your place on the food chain.
It was so obvious, it occurred to no one but yourself. What Lake said is pure Alinsky and I derided it as such.
And my place in the food chain is probably better than yours, as I actually live above ground and have a life other than lurking on the Internet for a living.
But, if I were you, I'd try to aggrandize myself as much as possible.
It must suck being you.
I read the Head of US Libya State Dept. who was killed was fudgepacker.
What the hell is a fag doing representing the US in Libya?
And my place in the food chain is probably better than yours, as I actually live above ground and have a life other than lurking on the Internet for a living.
Judging by the amount of time you spend posting here every day, it looks like you spend a lot more time online than I do. And from what you've said about yourself, both explicitly and implicitly (at least from what I've seen), you don't sound like you have much a life. But a good, positive outlook is always a good thing, even if you are an unemployed loser in a Rust Belt hovel, so keep your chin up!
Anyway, I'm off to a cocktail party and dinner. Keep up the conversation without me. And if you can provide proof that Eli Lake is an Alinskyite leftist, kudos!
They should have sent in Rebecca Martinson with Delta Gamma. She is way more kickass than Hillary or the average New Age USMC Drill Sergeant. Plus the girl knows how to party. Could have chilled everyone right the fuck out.
One possible factor in the failure to send help after the attack began could have been concern (on the part of DOD) about the 10-20,000 missing MANPADS (shoulder-fired ground-to-air missles). The reasons for that concern are, I think, obvious.
It was reported in the first days after the attack that the two men killed at the annex were "government contractors" whose purpose in Benghazi was to track down the missing missles. But I've seen very little mention of that since those early days.
Here's a report from early 2012.
somefeller said...
And my place in the food chain is probably better than yours, as I actually live above ground and have a life other than lurking on the Internet for a living.
Judging by the amount of time you spend posting here every day, it looks like you spend a lot more time online than I do.
Well, if you track my time each day, you must have to take time out from your brilliant law career (not counting on all those days you've posted here on "work" days during "office" hours) to do it.
If you're such a hot shot lawyer, there must be better things for you to do than hang out here.
Unless, of course, you're a big a dud as a lawyer as you are as a human being.
I know, you could partner up with your favorite law student, Sandra Fluck. I'm sure she'd have room for you in her slot in that Salt Lake City parking lot.
And from what you've said about yourself, both explicitly and implicitly (at least from what I've seen), you don't sound like you have much a life. But a good, positive outlook is always a good thing, even if you are an unemployed loser in a Rust Belt hovel, so keep your chin up!
Ah, yes, Lefty compassion rears its head yet again. I thought some hot shot Lefty lawyer would be working with Barack on his latest pivot on jobs.
But that would mean you had one yourself, but, considering 45% of all lawyers are out of work according to Forbes, the reason you can spend all you time tracking me must be that you're an unemployed lawyer.
Is that why you hate me so, folksy?
Because I have The Blonde and the pups and I can have some joy in my life while all you've got is Mom's basement? Because I've done better than you (and I'll bet I have)?
Anyway, I'm off to a cocktail party and dinner.
Of course you are. With Morgan Fairchild.
Yeah, dat's da ticket.
And dat's... Scarlett Johansen with her.
You're a legend in your own mind.
And I do feel sorry for you.
I'm really tired of all these high-level folks, including Petraeus, doing their CYA and pretending they have no idea how rescuing an American ambassador under attack fell through the cracks
The implication is that they were doing what the boss wanted--otherwise they would be blaming someone else explicitly.
the best monarchs are often those least expected to inherit the throne
As George III's only living legitimate grandchild, Victoria was Heiress Presumptive from birth, and her uncles' wives were old, but not so easily disposed of.
Edutcher, sometimes a little bit of one's own medicine does one good. It's not as if you haven't attacked other commenters lives as being unworthy or even untrue in your mind. I feel bad for you that Somefellers words have hurt you, but maybe you'll think twice or three times before attacking others lives as you've done in the past.
CYA is Hillary's only known talent.
She a lot to cover up because she has always been at war with the American way of life, not that there is anything wrong with that these days.
I agree that U would like to see Paul have a bit more experience in the Senate.
OTOH, he does have experience in the private sector. This makes a big change from Obama or Biden neither of whom has ever held a non-political job.
As for the Vice Presidency being a good stepping stone: I've heard that all my life since Nixon ran in 60. We are hearing the drumbeat now about Biden.
Here is how VPs have done in the presidency:
Bush and Nixon are the only 2 who served as VPs who got elected. Bush could not get re-elected. Nixon lost on his first try (60) and then won in 68&72 but resigned 1 step ahead of impeachment.
Johnson, Truman, Coolidge and Roosevelt came into the presidency via death. Johnson and Truman were so reviled that, although they did win 1 term, neither even ran for a 2nd.
Neither Roosevelt nor Coolidge ran for a 2nd term.
Gore, Mondale, Humphrey, Nixon all ran as sitting VPs and lost.
So yeah, tell me again how the VP is a good position to move up to Prez from.
Will you still love me in the morning too?
John Henry
Rand Paul might need some more time in the Senate = Rand Paul is a no-nothing miscreant who has no business being in the Senate.
When I read something about Rand Paul or Paul Ryan, I have to be careful not to get them mixed up because their names are similar.
Inga said...
I feel bad for you that Somefellers words have hurt you
That'll be the day.
some phony folksy is a self-important Lefty hypocrite and there's damned little he could say that could hurt me.
It would seem, though, that I hit some nerve in him; Insta has noted unemployment among lawyers is a growing problem so, if he really is a lawyer (face it, on the Internet, I could claim to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs), I'm betting things are going a lot worse for him than they ever have for me. That's why we're always being informed of his dinner engagements whenever he signs off.
He can't just disagree with anybody, he has to humiliate them. But he's too good to actually document anything.
Hate to tell you, dear (and you do seem to have mellowed), but I'll bet my life is a lot sweeter than his.
garage mahal said...
Rand Paul might need some more time in the Senate = Rand Paul is a no-nothing miscreant who has no business being in the Senate.
That could have been applied to several people in recent years - BHO, HRC...
I know I disagree with Drill at my peril, but I think Rand Paul was employing a metaphor (this was in a speech, after all) as much as anything.
I think that this is accurate, and as such, may have some sticking power. The question was not why members of the U.S. Marine Corps were not deployed, but rather, why no military forces whatsoever were deployed when the ambassador sent the message that the consulate (or whatever it was) was under attack. Within a couple of hours, and long before the final fire fight, any number of American assets could have been there - air first, then highly skilled boots on the ground. And, under some of Obama's predecessors, it would likely not have been a question of which assets were deployed, but rather, which ones showed up first, my guess with fighter jets showing up first, announcing themselves with fast low level flyovers, followed maybe by an AC-130, and then the ground troops, and not a half dozen, but enough to make a statement.
The point of all this would not really have been to save the ambassador. He was dead by then. But, rather, to make a statement. The Russians are good at this sort of thing, making it clear that diddling with their embassies, etc., is dumb, because they will apply massive amounts of force, sacrificing their own people to make their point not to screw with them. Americans have long done something similar, but shown a lot more finesse. The first point then is to let the world know that it is fatal to attack an American consulate or embassy in this way, and if there is some collateral damage, then at least we tried to minimize it, which is where we differ from the Ruskies. And, yes, the second point is that we haven't in the past left our people behind or unprotected. When they become under serious attack, our military will utilize as much power as required to extract them, and the U.S. has shown itself able to escalate the application of force faster than anyone else in the world since sometime in WWII.
What the hell is a fag doing representing the US in Libya?
Don't know why not. Fags are Americans too. I guess. My understanding is that they have had a long and storied presence in the State Department - it is just the military where they haven't had a chance to serve openly.
Titus - Welcome back. I know that this was for effect, and not nearly as outrageous as much of what we have seen in the past from you.
One possible factor in the failure to send help after the attack began could have been concern (on the part of DOD) about the 10-20,000 missing MANPADS (shoulder-fired ground-to-air missiles). The reasons for that concern are, I think, obvious.
That isn't an excuse to chicken out and not to respond, but rather, to do so carefully. This is a risk that the American military is trained and equipped to respond to, and do. Do you seriously believe that there weren't such weapons available to our enemies, at least to some extent, in Afghanistan, and, esp. in Iraq? Also, remember that this was at night, where it is much more difficult to see aircraft approaching. My understanding is that AC-130s are almost exclusively deployed at night for just this sort of reason (and, I seem to remember one shot down a couple years back for violating that principle).
I do think that it likely that there were such weapons deployed by the insurgents, since apparently many of their forces were kept in reserve, hoping to trap our relief forces. This was a well thought out and planned attack, which is why the idea that this was in response to some video on the Internet was always farcical. We were hearing within a day or two about the planned ambush, and the use of well aimed crew served weapons was known in real time.
Bruce,
I thought that I put enough qualifiers in my MANPADS post to identify it as one possible rationale among many and not an excuse or endorsement.
I'll try harder next time.
By the way, I enjoy your posts.
I read the Head of US Libya State Dept. who was killed was fudgepacker.
Righties.
The President has Marines. And all kinds of other stuff.
The President could have called Hilary.
Paneta could have called her. She could have called him.
It was Hillary's job to push, Obama's to approve, and Paneta's to supply the assets and respond. Of course, a lot of previous Presidents would have given the order to make it happen, without prompting from the Secretary of State. If Obama had truly thrown it to the two of them, as is sometimes alleged, then maybe the Secretary of Defense has some culpability. But, I don't find that truly credible, esp. since the President would have had to authorize anything anyway, and he had gone to bed, so he could get up early for his fund raising trip out west the next day. I think that, alone, is strong indicia that he had given either orders, or at least a very strong impression, that nothing was to be done.
I have a very hard time believing that if this had happened during the previous Presidency, that the President wouldn't have given the orders to commit forces, would have stayed up all night if necessary, and that his Secretaries of State wouldn't have been in close contact with their respective Secretaries of Defense, pushing for intervention. None of this, of course, happened under Obama, Clinton, and Panetta.
Righties.
Not sure if I would call Titus a "righty", but rather would point out that he is probably the most openly gay participant in this forum (not that the two are mutually exclusive). He comments on the sexual desirability of (esp. male) politicians and other public figures fairly equal handedly.
Not sure if I would call Titus a "righty", but rather would point out that he is probably the most openly gay participant in this forum (not that the two are mutually exclusive). He comments on the sexual desirability of (esp. male) politicians and other public figures fairly equal handedly.
Oh, all right. He gets a pass.
Weak-ass righties.
Weak-ass righties all boo-hooing over Libya and how bad Obama and his defenders are.
Some rightie queen comes in with "I read the Head of US Libya State Dept. who was killed was fudgepacker" and it's all crickets.
Except for the "Titus - Welcome back. I know that this was for effect, and not nearly as outrageous as much of what we have seen in the past from you."
Weak weak weak. Who would want to belong to a party with you guys? Where's your character?
If phx thinks Titus is any kind of a Righty, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for him.
Imagine a lefty saying that.
No edutcher. It's that I don't think YOU are any kind of a righty.
Phx. Where's your character?
Second to last draft of the Benghazi fiction? Or two weeks of insisting that the obvious lie was true?
I would not look to the current administration or its defenders for "character".
"Where in the hell were the Marines?" is a perfectly good question to ask Hillary.
She can then answer, "I didn't ask for them to come in", or she can say, "I requested that they relieve the consulate but my request was refused".
If her answer is the first, we can ask why she didn't make any effort to save the lives of her subordinates.
If her answer is the second, then we can ask why the request was refused and who refused it.
Isn't that the very minimum we should know? If there's a legitimate reason, let the person who made the call come forward and say why they made it. If there's not a legitimate reason -- well, all the more reason to know who made the call, no?
Second to last draft of the Benghazi fiction? Or two weeks of insisting that the obvious lie was true?
I would not look to the current administration or its defenders for "character".
Prove to me you give two shits about dead American representatives. Right now I think you guys couldn't care less. You just cynically want to get Obama.
Go suck Titus's dick.
Good Lord, that piece about the Demos' being in decline must be true.
phx is actually criticizing a homosexual (wait till Hatman hears) and so nasty.
phx has yet to prove he cares about those dead in Benghazi before he can accuse anyone else.
Prove to me you give two shits about dead American representatives. Right now I think you guys couldn't care less. You just cynically want to get Obama.
We're not the ones pretending that Americans placed overseas by this country and being ignored while being slaughtered by the leadership isn't a big deal. We're not the ones saying that finding out what happened is a partisan witch hunt.
Can you provide any evidence that you give the first iota of a shit that a diplomat was slaughtered and nothing was done to try and save the others?
Look how they all come out to get a lefty.
But....
"I read the Head of US Libya State Dept. who was killed was fudgepacker."
And they couldn't be bothered. He's not a lefty anyway.
You. fucking. hypocrites.
phx said...
Second to last draft of the Benghazi fiction? Or two weeks of insisting that the obvious lie was true?
I would not look to the current administration or its defenders for "character".
Prove to me you give two shits about dead American representatives. Right now I think you guys couldn't care less. You just cynically want to get Obama.
Go suck Titus's dick."
You're an expert on what I think and want?
I never said I gave a shit about those dead state department representatives.
But you. You did.
You don't really though, not really. You just want to get Obama.
End of story until the investigation's finished. You guys got nothin'.
phx said...
Look how they all come out to get a lefty.
But....
"I read the Head of US Libya State Dept. who was killed was fudgepacker."
And they couldn't be bothered. He's not a lefty anyway.
You. fucking. hypocrites."
Drinking, phx?
Man.
What are people supposed to say to Titus? He flops in and posts something, usually nonsensical, followed by "tits".
You read it and chuckle--or not--and move on.
Great. Phx is drunk posting, and he's mean.
What are people supposed to say to Titus? He flops in and posts something, usually nonsensical, followed by "tits".
Right. You and others have plenty to say to me for saying I don't know yet who's right or wrong in Libya. A hundred times I was degraded here for saying words to that effect, over and over. Some of the nastiest things came at me for my wait and see stand.
A right wing queen walks in calls the dead embassy rep a fudgepacker and you have nothing to say. Nada.
Just can't think of anything to say who calls the dead guy you care so much about a "fudgepacker."
What a joker you are.
And I don't drink. But you guys are rummies.
Mean. Somebody ought to drive you hypocrites out of the temple.
What are people supposed to say to Titus? He flops in and posts something, usually nonsensical, followed by "tits".
Right. You and others have plenty to say to me for saying I don't know yet who's right or wrong in Libya. A hundred times I was degraded here for saying words to that effect, over and over. Some of the nastiest things came at me for my wait and see stand.
A right wing queen walks in calls the dead embassy rep a fudgepacker and you have nothing to say. Nada.
Just can't think of anything to say who calls the dead guy you care so much about a "fudgepacker."
What a joker you are. "
1. I don't think I've said anything to you about your continued defense of the administration leaving people to die for some bizarre reason. I don't care if you have an opinion because you (used to be) pretty decent at debating (lately you've just been a partisan hack, honestly).
2. I don't think Titus is a right wing queen. Of all the queens I know, none of them are right wing, and the gay conservative/republicans I know aren't queen-like at all.
I don't really know what Titus believes in, politically.
But mostly, it's not worth arguing with Titus. It's like arguing with Cedarford, which you'll notice hardly anyone bothers to do.
And explain to me...it's okay for you to mock Titus as a "right wing queen" but it's somehow all conservatives are tainted by Titus' "fudgepacker" statement?
And that last thing, that "I don't drink but you guys are rummies" bit? That sounds a ton like Inga.
Going back and reading phx's posts...they all kinda sound like Inga.
And explain to me...it's okay for you to mock Titus as a "right wing queen"
I'm not mocking Titus I'm mocking the Althouse right-wing hypocritical crybabies.
Titus calls the Ambassador you all loved so much a fudgepacker. Nothing.
But wait until Garage or Andy comes in. We can treat them like a gob of spit.
Going back and reading phx's posts...they all kinda sound like Inga.
Yeah. You can't imagine how you sound to me.
Nope CEO, Inga would've told y'all to go get fucked long before Phx would. Phx has got the patience of a saint.
phx said...
Weak-ass righties.
Titus claims he isn't a bottom, so his sphincter should be tight as a drum. He may like his high income and his Cambridge condo, but he's no rightie.
Hi Inga.
Because garage and Andy both have a long history of being offensive, lying etc.
Titus is just Titus.
LOL @ Inga's post, btw. There's some serious sockpuppetry going on around here.
Phx. Where is your splendid calm passive aggressive self tonight? Hiding behind your character?
This is the real phx.
The mask has been slipping more and more lately. Tonight might be the coming out party though.
LOL, when there IS no sockpuppetry they think there is, when there IS sockpuppetry it takes them forever to figure it out.
And we've jumped the shark.
Phx. Where is your splendid calm passive aggressive self tonight? Hiding behind your character?
This is the real phx.
The mask has been slipping more and more lately. Tonight might be the coming out party though.
You guys should be embarrassed how you track my moods. You should spend that much time thinking about they hypocrisy of Althousian righties.
Phx. Just let us know which of the drafts of the Benghazi fiction you found most satisfying. Or is your intelligence not insulted by the blatant, sophomoric, lie of the "demonstration" caused by the mean film about the peaceful religion? Perhaps you believed it. Perhaps you still do.
And we've jumped the shark
All this thread needs is some Carol Herman.
Carol Herman was the first person whose posts I started to just skip. They were completely incoherent. Others have since been added. Most frequently, Cedarford. (All the "JOOOOOOS" stuff got old fast.) Most recently, Inga. (I've concluded she lacks the faculties to be responsible for what she writes.)
Inga said...
LOL, when there IS no sockpuppetry they think there is, when there IS sockpuppetry it takes them forever to figure it out.
Thank you for admitting what we've known for so long.
I'm not Phx. Phx is not I. If you seriously cannot see a huge difference in our personalities, you are not only not observant, you are blind. I could NEVER EVER be as patient with some of you dummies.
CEO said: "Because garage and Andy both have a long history of being offensive, lying etc."
Garage Mahal does not lie. He has a point of view, he doesn't mind controversy and he certainly enjoys tweaking a few noses around here. But he doesn't lie.
"Rand Paul, a very mainstream guy."
Obama's mainstream?
It was Hillary's job to push, Obama's to approve, and Paneta's to supply the assets and respond. Of course, a lot of previous Presidents would have given the order to make it happen, without prompting from the Secretary of State. If Obama had truly thrown it to the two of them, as is sometimes alleged, then maybe the Secretary of Defense has some culpability. But, I don't find that truly credible, esp. since the President would have had to authorize anything anyway, and he had gone to bed, so he could get up early for his fund raising trip out west the next day. I think that, alone, is strong indicia that he had given either orders, or at least a very strong impression, that nothing was to be done.
Bruce Hayden: That's the only way I can put it together and Obama's motives with less than two month's to go in the campaign are fairly obvious.
It also fits with the coverup afterward in which all these high-profile people can't provide sensible answers for their actions because they are protecting President Obama.
It's a straightforward problem and there is a documentation trail for it. We're not trying to solve the magic bullet puzzles in the JFK assassination.
This goes right to the top of the Obama administration. There is no one else to lay this off on.
Notice that no one will tell us what specific orders were given that night.
Cut phx some slack folks. He's angry about this disaster and rightfully so. He just can't bring himself to connect the dots to see where the fault and responsibility lie. A dangerous part of the world, a symbolic date, no security, no standby forces, a disinterested leadership, what could go wrong?
Cut phx some slack folks. He's angry about this disaster and rightfully so. He just can't bring himself to connect the dots to see where the fault and responsibility lie. A dangerous part of the world, a symbolic date, no security, no standby forces, a disinterested leadership, what could go wrong?
Althousian righties will never fool me again that they give a shit about Chris Stevens or anything other than getting Obama.
Phx. So you are fine with the intentional obfuscation? Fine with being taken for a fool?
Phx. So you are fine with the intentional obfuscation? Fine with being taken for a fool?
Titus, he of Cambridge MA, ex-wife of some Indian dude, and owner of the rare clumbers, is right-wing? How ridiculous.
Anybody who has read this site for any length of time realizes the dividing line for Titus is not right or left, but fab or not fab.
He hates fat and pasty white people, the South, and his home state of Wisconsin. He loves hogs, tits, hot brown guys, and people with money. He used to talk about his shit rather obsessively.
He is deeply shallow, not nearly as funny as he thinks he is (at least IMO) and has a mean streak that surfaces from time to time. He might be manic-depressive. That's about all there is to Titus. There's not much there there.
It's pretty funny that phx, who has been around Althouse much longer than I have, thinks Titus is some sort of conservative. Shows how perceptive he is.
This goes right to the top of the Obama administration. There is no one else to lay this off on.
Except that Hillary! shouldn't get a pass here. It was her people who were dying, and her people who died. My view is that she should have been burning up the phone lines with Obama, Panetta, Jarrett, et al. until she got some action. Instead, there is some indication that she never talked to the Secretary of Defense, a bit after this all got rolling.
Notice that no one will tell us what specific orders were given that night.
Or, not given. But, that, in itself, would have been taken as an order, or at least I would think that it would have. The only person who could definitively say "don't bother responding" was President Obama, or maybe Valarie Jarrett.
It's pretty funny that phx, who has been around Althouse much longer than I have, thinks Titus is some sort of conservative.
Yeah, and aren't you the candyass rightie who called me a liar today and then disappeared when I politely asked you what I lied about?
GTFOH.
He is deeply shallow, not nearly as funny as he thinks he is (at least IMO) and has a mean streak that surfaces from time to time. He might be manic-depressive. That's about all there is to Titus. There's not much there there.
Except that deep shallowness is why, I think, that he is appreciated by some here. Most of us are so serious most of the time, or at least try to converse about serious topics. He is not, but just the opposite.
Bruce Hayden: I don't think Hillary or Panetta should get passes either, but ultimately they serve at the president's pleasure. The buck stops at his desk and, occasionally when he's feeling feisty, he even says so himself.
Besides, I just don't see how this could have happen unless, as you say, Obama gave a direct or indirect order not to send help.
Nothing else makes sense.
If anyone can provide a more innocent scenario, I'd like to hear it.
exiledonmainst: That is because you are a hypocritical liar and it's very easy to catch you lying.
phx: Fine. Tell me what I lied about.
exiledonmainst:
Bruce Hayden said...
This goes right to the top of the Obama administration. There is no one else to lay this off on.
Except that Hillary! shouldn't get a pass here. It was her people who were dying, and her people who died. My view is that she should have been burning up the phone lines with Obama, Panetta, Jarrett, et al. until she got some action. Instead, there is some indication that she never talked to the Secretary of Defense, a bit after this all got rolling.
This is why I say, half in jest, what happens if the whole Administration is impeached/tried?
We could still end up with a Republican POTUS.
Weak weak weak.
Here that? That's the sound of Althousian righties. Mice.
"Weak weak weak weak"
Althousian righties will never fool me again that they give a shit about Chris Stevens or anything other than getting Obama.
At some level I guess that is true, at least for me, about not caring about Stevens...
I care alot about the two vets who risked their lives to attempt rescues. One by volunteering to fly into an unknown situation in Benghazi to save Americans. The other disobeying orders to hang tight and not attempt a rescue at the Consulate. Not quite Shughart and Gordon, but not far off.
The two State guys? At one level, they were doing what they got paid to do. I never have had much to like about the State guys. HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER, though I didn't give a shit about Chris Stevens, I do care that somebody has the nerve to kill our Ambassador. The Living symbol of the US in Libya. Our enemies need to be disabused of that and taught a lesson... In that fashion, PHX, Steven's death is hugely important to me and SHOULD have been to Obama.
Like Bruce said, you kidnap or kill a Russian Ambassador and you and your family can expect to be hunted by the FSB till they very publicly kill you. last time it happened was Lebannon, 30 years ago.
Obama should have channeled his inner Roosevelt (the good Cousin) "This government wants Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead."
I don't think there is a President in the last hundred years (with the possible exception of Jimmie and now Barack) who would not react the same way.
And as I have said before, if Obama really gave the order to safeguard our staff and awoke to find out that nothing had been done, he is unfit...
phx: This would be a good time for you or Inga or garage or harrogate to jump in with some sensible explanation for how it happened that radical Muslims could attack and kill an American ambassador on the anniversary of 9-11 over several hours, and eight months later we still don't know how the most powerful nation in the world would do nothing to help its own staff under fire.
"Yeah, and aren't you the candyass rightie who called me a liar today and then disappeared when I politely asked you what I lied about?"
Let's see, I logged off, went for a long walk on a nice sunny day, ran a couple of errands, got a salad at Whole Foods, and met an old friend for a drink. And now I'm back online.
In other words, phx, I have a life that does not revolve around sitting around breathlessly to check responses to my Althouse posts. Is that how you spent your Saturday afternoon?
Jesus, you're a narcissist. I can see why you relate to the Narcissist-In-Chief. First you imagine that everyone here is hanging on your every word and "tracking you" and then you get angry because your all-important comment is not immediately answered.
I called you a liar and a hypocrite because I don't believe for a second you want to find out the truth about Benghazi. The really funny thing is that your comments right in this very thread prove my point. I don't have to provide quotes and links, all I have to do is scroll up and read.
A right wing queen walks in calls the dead embassy rep a fudgepacker and you have nothing to say. Nada.
Phx -- scolding the population here for the comments of a singular entity is Inga's jig -- yours is feigned outrage layered over ignorance (Donna, er Susan Rice? Hmmm, what did she say again?) and indecisiveness.
I called you a liar and a hypocrite because I don't believe for a second you want to find out the truth about Benghazi.
I never said I wanted to find the truth about anything. I said I was good with wherever the truth led.
It's so easy when you don't have any character to call other people liars.
Chris Stevens was a fudgepacker. I have nothing against fudgepackers.
Or breeders.
Words are stupid.
Phx -- scolding the population here for the comments of a singular entity is Inga's jig
I didn't scold someone for their comments. I scolded YOU guys because you had nothing to say about his comments, other than one "Hi, Titus! Welcome back!"
**Missed you**
weak weak weak, li'l mousie.
And as I have said before, if Obama really gave the order to safeguard our staff and awoke to find out that nothing had been done, he is unfit...
Which is why I don't think that it was done. Maybe the Clintons have enough dirt on him, and esp. right before the election, for Hillary! to be able to pull this off by herself. I think though that is unlikely.
Exiled, I still am not sure what you think is being covered up, except for incompetence at high levels, someone who made the decisions to not send forces ( was it a realistic expectation that forces could get there on time and was the action already over by the time they wouldve actually gotten there) and the lack of security. I have no problem whatsoever with anyone getting to the bottom of it. I'm just not sure there is any there, there.
5/9/13, 11:42 PM
This was my comment in response to Exiled from the other night. Why don't some of you righties just say what it's you think Obama did wrong? Incompetence? Maybe. Cover up of a real terrorist attack? Doubtful, but giving you the benefit of a doubt, talking points may have been altered for political purposes. Surprise, politicians are politicians. Whose fault was it when all the Marines were killed in Beruit under Reagan? Presidents are human.
Sorry EMD. I respect you but your position is weak. Words aren't stupid. Lazy Republicans who feign outrage over Benghazi are.
And I know some people are genuinely angry about Benghazi. The Drill Sgt spoke well against my man Obama. But his balls aren't big enough to go around for guys like exiledonmainst and william.
I didn't scold someone for their comments. I scolded YOU guys because you had nothing to say about his comments, other than one "Hi, Titus! Welcome back!"
What part of THE POPULATION did you not understand? Re-read my post.
Also, TItus is a known entity. He uses the word "fag" all the time, too. Do you get upset no one tells Kanye West to stop using nigger in his lyrics?
Inga, read this and get back to me:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324244304578473533965297330.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_BelowLEFTSecond
Bear in mind that Noonan, like Althouse, voted for Obama in 2008.
Certain speech is tolerated and even thought to be amusing by some righty commenters here, the outrage at other lefty commenters goes off the rails for far less egregious comments. That is where the hypocrisy comes into play.
@EMD as I said before and then I want to let it go,
Most of the righties have plenty to say to me because I don't know yet who's right or wrong in Libya. A hundred times I've been degraded here for saying I wanted to wait and see about Benghazi, that I don't have an opinion on it, Over and over I been told how ignorant I am, that I'm a liar, and a lot worse. Only because I said I didn't know yet.
But a guy comes in and says why is a faggot like Christ Stevens running state in Libya? He's a fudgepacker. And no one says a word other than "Hi Titus!"
Feigned outrage or not, I don't think much of your team.
Feigned outrage or not, I don't think much of your team.
I'm the only one on my team, genius.
I wouldn't own 'em either.
Wouldn't expect anyone with character to.
Certain speech is tolerated and even thought to be amusing by some righty commenters here, the outrage at other lefty commenters goes off the rails for far less egregious comments.
I don't like personal invective and name-calling. but policing that here is akin to herding cats.
I agree with our host that it should be as close to a free for all, and to combat language one disagrees with with more language, not less.
It's funny some people here become such easy marks — and routinely take the bait offered by the name-callers.
We're all adults here and can police our own tongues just fine ... or we can stand up for ourselves if need be.
Inga, here's the money quote from the Noonan article:
"Think of how low your opinion of the American people has to be to think you can get away, forever, with that."
The Obama adminstration's low opinion of the American people is fully justified, because they know how many are like you and phx. Of course they'll get away with it, because the liberals who surround me in lovely Shorewood could care less about those SEALs. They could care less that Stevens was raped before his death and sodomized after his death.
The media will be more than happy to help you forget that fact.
There is a video of Stevens' death there on the Internet, or so I am told. I haven't watched it because once I see it I will never be able to unsee it.
Phx could give a shit.
The bottom line is: YAY, TEAM DEMOCRAT! GO TEAM GO!
I don't like personal invective and name-calling. but policing that here is akin to herding cats.
Oh, I can live with the namecalling directed at me, I don't mind that part. It's that I realized that most of them really don't give a shit about who died in Libya. I was a fool to think most of them did. They just want Obama.
I think you're wrong Exiled. Liberals do care every bit as much as conservatives about these deaths.
The waving of the bloody shirt is a game either side has engaged in, it's not admirable.
I wasn't referring to speech directed at myself either EMD. I was referring to Titus' comment.
I wasn't referring to speech directed at myself either EMD. I was referring to Titus' comment.
Got the vapors?
Anyways, I was just speaking generally.
Some of you are dense.
"I never said I wanted to find the truth about anything."
Of course you don't, phx.
You'd rather mock the people who do.
They just want Obama.
It would be a grave political miscalculation to use Benghazi as a cudgel to try and remove Obama from office.
I think over time people will come to realize that he has made faulty decisions on many issues.
Actual recognition of responsibility at some level would be nice, though. An official Mea Culpa, if you will.
"Liberals do care every bit as much as conservatives about these deaths."
Prove it, Inga.
I'll bet you didn't even read a paragraph of Noonan's article.
The truth would be too painful for you.
What do you want Exiled? What should liberals do or say to satisfy you? I think that the outrage on the right is sounding almost hysterical, overdone... Almost suspicious.
Maybe Bark just refuses to take Hillary's calls. Maybe the whole fuck-up stems from two bloated egos.
Oh, and the liberal comments on Noonan's article make for great reading:
"This is nothing and even if it is, Bush did much worse. And -what about Newtown, huh?"
The hallowed theme song of the liberals, over 4 years after Bush left the Oval Office, is still "Blame Bush!!"
Congrats, Inga and phx. You have your very own version of Tricky Dick. Except that this time the media and you "nice, compassionate"(yeah, right, what horseshit) liberals will do everything in your power to excuse Nixon #2.
You didn't read the article, did you Inga?
Yeah, "overdone." You, the mother of a servicewoman, and you don't care about what happened to those SEALS in Benghazi or why they died.
They died abandoned by their president and you don't give a shit. And don't tell me you do.
I've been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, Inga, but I see Obama and the Democrat Party comes before country or military for you. You can't stand to see your cherished worldview ("I'm a liberal because WE CARE!!! We're so much NICER than those mean conservatives!!") challenged so you ignore any evidence to the contrary.
You are not honest either, Inga. I regret that I was fooled by you.
Exiled, I read her article a couple days ago. You are beginning to sound hysterical.
I'm not going to let you try to manipulate me with that bloody shirt your waving
Good night Phx.
Happy Mother's Day to the Moms of Althouse.
Of course you don't, phx.
You'd rather mock the people who do.
"phx is a liar. No! He mocks those who seek the truth. No!"
GTFOH you pussy cipher.
Yeah, Inga, I'm "hysterical."
Pardon me for caring that doomed Navy SEALs fought bravely, thinking that help was on the way - help that never came.
Forgive me for caring that Ambassador Stevens was tortured and raped.
Excuse me for caring that a man is sitting in a California prison because of a video that nobody in the fucking Middle East even saw, much less rioted about. He's in prison to save Hillary Clinton's wrinkled old ass.
Yes, it's "overdone." "Hysterical."
After all, you liberals are the great experts on compassion, and if you don't give a shit that you're lied to, why on earth do these conservatives care? That's very "suspicious." Why can't they kneel and lick the blood off Hillary's and Obama's hands like we do?
That's exactly what you're doing.
Goodnight, bloodlickers!
Grovel before your master! Lick that boot, toadies!
Oh, and tell me again, phx, how much you love the truth.
Liar, liar,liar.
Absurd narcissist. And also liar. Hypocrite. Blood licker.
"I read her article a couple days ago"
You read it - but you don't understand it.
Because your smug little world would crash to the ground if you did.
You love only your daughter. You don't give a damn about any other man or woman in uniform.
I'm sorry your family didn't stay in Austria. You are no asset to the United States.
"phx is a liar. No! He mocks those who seek the truth. No!"
That's your answer?
How sad.
It would be almost tragic, even, except you hardly reach tragic heights.
Just another small-dicked omega male toadying up to power.
"Question Authority!"
My ass.
This was my comment in response to Exiled from the other night. Why don't some of you righties just say what it's you think Obama did wrong? Incompetence? Maybe. Cover up of a real terrorist attack? Doubtful, but giving you the benefit of a doubt, talking points may have been altered for political purposes. Surprise, politicians are politicians...
Not sure if President Obama did anything wrong up front, except for his appointments. That would be more on Hillary's shoulders. But, starting in the late afternoon of 9/11/12, President Obama was almost assuredly made aware of what was happening in Benghazi - both by standard procedures whenever the sort of cable that was sent by the Ambassador is sent, and because his people were apparently watching the drone feed in real time in the situation room. So, he can't really say that he didn't know, and nor should or could he have. But, he did nothing, except, maybe, tell his Secretaries of Defense and State to handle it, and then went to be early in order to catch a flight on his private 747 to the fund raiser out west. So, he showed little, if any, concern, at the time, about our consulate being overrun, our ambassador being missing, then found dead, etc. I think that a lot of us here would have thought that he would have ordered something done, and then made sure that it was. Instead, it appears right now that if he had a reason for doing nothing, it was political. Still, this was one of those times where the buck stopped at his desk, and it wasn't above his pay grade, yet seemingly slept through it.
And, then, after the fact, the cover up. He obviously knew about it, in the way that he carefully parsed his statement right after the incident where he held open the possibility of a terrorist attack (as brought out by Cindy Crawley at the debate). And, then, fully aware of the cover up, allowed his minions to repeatedly lie to the American people, perpetuation the video story, despite knowing from the night of 9/11/12 that it had been a terrorist attack.
Most of Obama's problems could have been alleviated by consulting with right wing bloggers first.
Right wing bloggers have never been wrong before, have they?
garage, tell us more about the secret routers.
Walker will be indicted any second now, right?
(No, fool, you will never, ever live that jackassery down.)
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