I obscured names and addresses, but be assured, this was a list of real names and addresses of people who live near me, with the information about whether they voted in the last 2 elections. This is an effort to shame and pressure people about voting, and it is truly despicable. Your vote is private, you have a right not to vote, and anyone who tries to shame and harass you about it is violating your privacy, and the assumption that I will become active in shaming and pressuring my neighbors is repugnant.
Not voting is a valid choice. If you don't have a preference in the election, don't vote. If you think no one deserves your vote, don't vote.
This may be the most disgusting thing I have ever received in the mail.
পোস্টগুলি
২০৮টি মন্তব্য:
208 এর 1 – থেকে 200 আরও নতুন» সবচেয়ে নতুন»Scott Walker:
You may already be a winner!!!!!!!
Or it will expose election fraud. What if your neighbor really didn't vote?
Yikes! How intrusive!
Makes you feel like you accidentally walked in on your neighbor in the bathroom.
And how is this worse than what Verify the Recall did?
Are you advocating that this information should be private? Contact your legislators.
I thought full disclosure was the answer to all electoral abuse.
Not voting is a valid choice.
So true. If you don't like the candidates, not voting becomes a meaningful act in itself. Low voter turnout can show that something is wrong with the political class. (It can also show that something is right; maybe you -- the royal You -- think things are just fine, and that's why you aren't voting.)
I was just talking to someone today about this. I said that when I vote, I only complete the ballot a small percentage. This is because I don't have any idea who the candidates are for many of the races, or what they stand for. It's strange and unethical, if you ask me, to vote if you aren't educated about the candidates. If you don't care or don't know, you shouldn't vote.
And this, by the way, is one of the limits of direct democracy (something I am a big fan of). The average schmuck can only know enough about so much to make a knowledgeable decision.
This may be the most disgusting thing I have ever received in the mail.
You may regret throwing down that gauntlet.
If anonymous speech is constitutionally protected, then is stripping away your anonymity an infringement of your free speech rights?
"This may be the most disgusting thing I have ever received in the mail."
To be clear, we don't consider blog comments as "mail" per se, correct?
Althouse, just go to all your neighbors and show them what "the Barrett people" sent you.
Cui bono. What is the interest of the group that put this out? My guess is that given your neighborhood they are trying to pump up the vote for Barrett. I suppose it could be a false flag operation, but, as a general rule, only lefties are capable of this kind of wrong headed santimony.
Pfft...
It's a joke, Althouse!
Cripes, don't you watch John Stewart?
Cui bono. What is the interest of the group that put this out? My guess is that given your neighborhood they are trying to pump up the vote for Barrett. I suppose it could be a false flag operation, but, as a general rule, only lefties are capable of this kind of wrong headed santimony.
Maybe they are trying to piss off the Walker people so much that they won't vote out of spite.
You need to take a photo of your completed ballot before you drop it in the box.
Mail it to your neighbors.
We got one of these today too. They make a very big deal about noting that it's public information but that didn't make me any less annoyed by it.
The most disturbing part was the list of our neighbors' voting habits and the exhortation to go bug the ones who haven't voted enough recently. It made my skin crawl.
Wisconsin should make voting compulsory, like in the old Soviet Bloc. The Greater Wisconsin Political Fund should get right on this.
Also, I live in Chicago. I wonder if I will be getting one of these. About Wisconsin.
The idea is completely wasted on non-voters because they do not care about politics, one way or another.
Obviously, whether offended or not, voters will continue to vote. We voters just do that.
So - the real question is: Where do politicians find these numbnuts to do their thinking?
Oh well!
We need to know who signed recalls. Right? The Tea Party set up a website where you can search anyone in Wisconsin to see whether they signed a recall petition, or not. What is the big effing diff yo?
We all need to know man!
What I assume here is that Democrats believe that the people who don't vote are people who are supposed to be voting for Democrats. But these people are NOT voting. They don't belong to the Democrats. It's ridiculous.
I got this. On top of its creepiness, it was addressed to the woman who I bought my house from ... 18 years ago. She was listed as not voting, from my address, in '08 and '10. I guess I should get some solace from that.
What is the big effing diff yo?
When some Political Fund sends a letter to someone naming people in their own neighborhood who did not sign the recall, you be sure to let us know. Yo.
How Progressive. Nice little voting pattern you've got here. Shame if anything should happen to it.
This is more of the same kind of social pressure I was thinking of in my comment about the students being bussed to the polls to vote. Just as students might be worried about their grades if they didn't want to vote, citizens could be worried about their jobs if they didn't want to vote and were "outed" as a non-voter to an employer who was a neighbor and wanted his employees to vote. Now that I think of it, this is another version of "outing" to push people toward some political end.
I agree its creepy for an organization to gather up this data, in order to "pressure" (intimidate?) people to vote. Yet voting (not how you vote) is as the letter notes a public act. If I want to help people I know vote through educating them or encouraging to them to vote or helping them get to the polls, I should be able to do so, as part of my personal civic responsibility to the community. Similarly, I think a candidate (or party) has the right to contact non-voters and ask for their vote and to help them remove any barriers to voting. It's the crassness of the appeal that is offensive, not the information itself.
Funny how they ignore Verify the Recall, and are having vapors over this.
Well, Democrats may believe that, Althouse.
But even more bizarre are Republicans who believed that "sitting it out" in a presidential election would make them anything other than supporters of Obama.
Rush must have got himself caught up in some major mind altering drugs on that one.
It's the crassness of the appeal that is offensive, not the information itself.
Not really.
I bought my house. I am married. I was born. There are, presumably, public records of these events. I don't expect anyone to go digging around looking at these records, or publicly announcing it. If you are not a public person, and I, sadly, am not, there is a completely reasonable expectation of utter privacy in your life.
Further, there is a risk of libel here. I doubt very seriously that all those records are correct.
And how is this worse than what Verify the Recall did?
That was a massive post where you had to go online and spend time looking.. this is different.
This is targeted.. this is like Google sending your neighbor your search history.
Sure.. Some people wont mind.. But I sure the hell would!
Apparently (according to the news) the logo on the mailing is from the United Steel Workers.
Funny how they ignore Verify the Recall
Nobody gave a shit the first time you blabbered this, but I will now take the time to explain it to you since you may well blabber it a third or fourth time.
There was and remains obvious concerns about duplicate and fraudulent signatures in the recall petitions. There is no such issue here.
There is obviously a material difference between who signed a recall a petition, an action, and who did not vote, an inaction.
The people behind Verify did not send letters to people about how other people in the same neighborhood did not sign the recall.
Verify was an intelligent thing. This is a stupid thing.
You are dismissed.
LMAO, Seven. Who the hell do you think you are the school marm?
Funny how they ignore Verify the Recall, and are having vapors over this.
And another thing.. the recall petition was a one off..
This data about your neighbor is going back two elections.. presumably they could go back to the first time a neighbor voted.
Christian Schneider received one too.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/purple-wisconsin/156550775.html#!page=1&pageSize=10&sort=newestfirst
I agree this is not right....
I love to say you are dismissed to shallow leftist idiots because it always gets a rise out of them.
But I am not a school marm. School marms, like nurses, don't work very much and don't really have a very sophisticated skills set. It's why their pay is relatively low. Obviously.
I do agree that it isn't ethical, I don't like it either, but it's no worse than Verify, let's not be hypocritical.
Has Allie ever made anything but a conclusory statement on Althouse threads?
nice of you to leave enough information visible so the whole world can now tell who didn't vote in recent elections. Your neighbors must be thrilled with you.
Miss J -- Tell us from that image the name of one voter who did or did not vote, or their address.
I'll wait.
Their President is James Youngerman, UW Law School 1973, of Madison. His advertised practice areas:
Workmen's Comp
Injury Law
Car Accidents
Next time you need a great lawyer, give him a call.
It's ok Allie. No one's being hypocritical here. THis is worse. You're not only being sent, unbidden, you own voting record, but that of your neighbors. Sent to you in the mail.
It takes no initiative on your part. You don't have to look anything up.
And, unlike verifying signatures, there's no reason that it should happen.
The "yuk" factor. Big brother is watching.
The nice thing about this is the caliber of the people it is going to backfire on. Isn't that right, Allie?
Lets not be shy -- it's mmmmmm... satisfying.
And Seven Machos as "Beta Man"!
WTF, this is Althouse. Not Hollywood, honey.
I disagree with Althouse all the time. In this instance, I agree.
Thus, go fuck yourself. Honey.
Oh, and Allie, there is also that putrid suggestion of "nark on thy neighbor", peer pressure and bullying wafting about.
Anita, I think you may have a case of premature satisfaction, hmmmm?
It's just like ObamaCare. Not voting is like not buying health insurance. How dare you!? It offends them and they have determined it's their business to butt their nose into everything you do. You have no right to determine your own actions or make your own private decisions (don't even get me started on the government telling me how big a cup I can drink from).
Not doing something - it's the new wave of anti-social behavior that they're determined to stamp out.
Can you see the difference, Allie? Between doing something and not doing something and minding your own busines.
If one is a republican in Chicago, one's voting record might disappear. I think it was Ace of Spades or Black Five who wrote aabout the 2004 election. He went to vote and his record wasn't there even tho he voted in the previous election. He met a few other republicans down at City Hall that had the same thing, imagine that, they weren't on the rolls.
Just hope the propaganda you mostly agree with wins! Maybe join the team that has the most money and least scruples first, and go from there. I need the big W above all else. Who is getting crushed? How fast? How hard? That's the American Way!
I heard those Governor of Wisconsin grapes are probably sour, anyway, Bailey.
This kind of thing was not a problem for the Stasi, so I don't see why it would be a problem here.
I reckon we should just leave it all to 50 really rich people and let them figure it out for us. We're all such a drag on them. And they have real feelings dammit!
If not voting is a valid choice, why the shame, why the creepiness? Why would people who have made a valid choice they are proud of not take pride in having their neighbors know it?
It would not bother me. I always vote and would be proud that is shown. If you are ashamed of your choices maybe you should reconsider them. In the place of peer review we get the nanny state. I'll take a little peer pressure - it's preserves choice. If I need to, I can explain myself to my neighbors, and they can just suck it.
I reckon we should just leave it all to 50 really rich people
Note that the recall election is statewide and that millions of votes will be cast by millions of people. When Walker wins, millions of people will have decided. Against you and your shallow, silly belief system.
I am looking forward to it. The palpable depression among people like Bailey will become a terrible sea of humiliating anguish and despair. Shirts will be rent. Hilarious shit will be said. It is going to be sublimely amusing.
Hmmm... Methinks that anyone who visits my front door to encourage me to vote will be met with another of my civil liberties- Mr. Remington 1200 semi-automatic shotgun with bean bag rounds. Not that I would shoot them or anything. Well, unless they were persistently after getting me to vote, after said introduction, then I might be discouraging them a little more, uh, forcefully.
Just tiny cogs in a huge wheel. Why get worked up about it. It's no use.
Smug, pointless, condescending troll is smug, pointless, and condescending.
I'm not even sure how accurate this is. My letter only contains information on 11 houses out of about 30 on my block, and for the houses it does cover, doesn't list all the adults. There are a lot of people on my block with recall signs, and not one of their names appears on this list.
It lists one neighbor as having voted both in 2008 and 2010. But she didn't live in this neighborhood in 2008.
Wonder what else they got wrong.
The obvious difference between this and VTR is that, if you want to find out who signed a recall petition, you have to make the effort to look them up. VTR didn't put together lists grouped by neighborhood and mail them out. So this IS worse than VTR.
"I reckon we should just leave it all to 50 really rich people"
How about 50 professors from the University of Wisconsin? Surely, a brain trust like that would end all our problems.
Seems like their idea is to publicize the names fraudulent voters can safely use to double or triple vote for Barrett.
This is creepy in the same way a visit from the neighborhood protection racket is creepy to small businesses. It's a not very thinly disguised threat. "We know who you are, where you live, and how you vote. Watch your step." It's an old union trick as well.
The lefties deny the existence of voter fraud. But without voter ID in place it would be so simple to vote in two places. Original Mike's former homeowner, still registered at his address, could easily be voting in another state AND Wisconsin. Likewise Petunia's neighbor who has been voting in her precinct long after moving away could easily be voting in two or more locations. Worse yet, now that the union pointed out which neighbors are registered but rarely vote, it would be simple to chose a name, walk in on election day, state that name and address and cast a ballot in that name. No ID required thanks. Don't think it will happen?
"Seems like their idea is to publicize the names fraudulent voters can safely use to double or triple vote for Barrett. "
Now that's a creepy thought! Only way to protect yourself is to go to the poll as early as possible, sign yourself in, and then hand in a blank ballot.
"Now that's a creepy thought! Only way to protect yourself is to go to the poll as early as possible, sign yourself in, and then hand in a blank ballot."
But a blank ballot would indicate you are an idiot, thus making it clear that it was your intention to vote Democratic and you'd be tallied in that column. After all, it's intent that matters, right?
Worse yet, now that the union pointed out which neighbors are registered but rarely vote, it would be simple to chose a name, walk in on election day, state that name and address and cast a ballot in that name. No ID required thanks.
That's what I'm guessing is the real purpose of this.
Although it's also a good way to let union members know they are being watched to see if they vote in this election.
I would be pissed as hell. I'm with, for example, 7M on this one.
An aside: A local candidate where I live stopped by our house during a primary and, and in the course of her pitch, mentioned some neighbors who, she said, hadn't participated in recent elections and made some comments about what she thought of that. I terminated the conversation immediately, and, when the day came, did not vote for her on that basis alone. Screw her. Political power seekers do enough damn damage without seeking to meddle in neighborhood relationships like that. While I found that intrusive and inappropriate, I find this mailing to be even more so.
And Allie, quite frankly I find your attitude and comments in this thread to be creepy, too.
I wonder if the intranet advances we have seen in the past 5 years will continue and if it will be possible for one to see the addresses of the people who comment on this site.
Along with their real names, and a index of the comments they have posted on line, and even those OTHER sites they go to and their browser history.
Yes I know software can be anti-virus, anti-cookie, anti-tracking and Aunty Em. But c'mon you know that it is possible.
Is this a privacy issue? Or a liberty issue?
Here's there email, let them know what you think
info@greaterwisconsin.com
Cardinal Dolan is a liar and a piece of shit.
Is it very provocative ? Yes
Does is obviously get the dander up of a % of the populace? Yes
Will it have a backfire componenet and cause a backlash against the senders? Yes
Send your own message at the Polls.
If you consider it an atrocity that is important enough, then use your vote to go against the backers of this tactic. Make them pay enough to not perform this act again.
It is not even worth arguing with anyone who cannot see the totalitarian spirit behind this. That spirit is, however, tempered by the lameness of its means here. Like the cops arresting a lone guy for having the wrong sign. It tells you how desperate this unraveling "revolt of the masses" is as it faces its doom. Not with a bang, not with a whimper, but with a whimper that thinks its a bang.
But what exactly is the issue? Is it that a un-named right to privacy that we have been told is a penumbra from the constitution has been infringed? Or just the tone of the message?
I received something similar a couple of weeks ago here in Ohio. It purported to be a "research project" from the economics department at Harvard. It listed myself and people in my neighborhood who had given money to political parties in the past two years. It identified us by name, amount, and party.I found it creepy as well, and figured it was an attempt at intimidation.
Greater Wisconsin Political Fund
And how is this worse than what Verify the Recall did?
What's the similarity?
Here is what I received.
Man! What a cesspit you people make of politics. Can't you be satisfied with just regular corruption, you have to invent new ways of trying to pressure people?
Here's an easy way to diffuse the problem. Tell everyone who you voted for. Just get in their face and tell them "I voted for ________ because your guy is a piece of shit".
I never understood the secret ballot. I WANT people to know where I stand. Plus there is more room for cheating if the ballot is secret. Who an really tell until there is an hand count, with both sides, and even then I get suspicious(hanging chads...sure).
And if some union goon or Demothug thinks he can intimidate me?! Ha! Ha, I say! If I can face down a nun that was bitten by the snake I brought to school at age 7 do you think a goon can intimidate me?
But if some union thug thinks to print private stuff about me...guess where I come down on? Fuck that union, his backers, and his president, "Zero".
Let the democrats and liberals(like there's a diff?) get one thing straight, You and your Zero worship are the worst things to ever happen to this country, and I am including slavery. I generally am a live and let live guy, but when you people are dead, I will celebrate.
An electronic visit from Solly and da boys (or is it Gruppenfuhrer-SS Heydrich and the SD?).
How 21st century.
Freeman @ 10:47, you have articulated exactly what I think about this, thank you.
I don't know who green-lighted mailing this ghastly thing. They are completely tone-deaf and dense.
I agree with althouse -- this is bar none the most disgusting thing I have ever received in the mail.
CCAP records are public, too. How ethical would it be to print out all the CCAP records of your neighbors and send them out to the neighborhood?
Here's what you say to your neighbor when he comes over.
It doesn't pay to vote.
The chances of your vote swinging any issue that you care about are more or less exactly zero.
If everybody thought that way, it would be worth voting; but they don't, and it isn't.
But look at the math.
If you vote and your vote cancels a neighbor's vote, it's 1-1 about the issue you care about.
If you don't vote but persuade your neighbor to vote your way, it's 1-0 in favor of your issue.
Persuading one opponent is more powerful than voting!
Now suppose you persuade a lot of people instead of just one. Then you have a say that has some chance of swinging the issue your way.
Who is the patriotic person here?
Assuming you don't adopt a cruel neutrality posture, anyway.
Yet you will remain mostly a Democratic voter, thus enabling groups like this.
I'm sure your medical records are safe, though.
No way this will happen now that Obamacare is law, including the parts already enacted that require personal data to be sent to the Feds every time you are seen. Happening now.
Perfectly safe.
OT: And then there were two....
Someone took wing this morning.
So Allieoop ... let me understand this ... making sure Mickey Mouse doesn't sign a recall petition and trigger a recall election is morally equivalent to intrusively exposing individuals to ridicule or pressure for choosing to or not to vote?
@John has it right in my opinion. This is a naked "get out the fraud vote" campaign. Find the neighbor who hasn't voted in the last two elections and be that person. Brazen and desperate.
As noted, just tell your neighbors this weekend that the mailing was courtesy of the Barrett Campaign.
And that the ONLY way this nonsense stops is with a vote for Walker AND Rebecca on Tuesday.
Because for the last 16 months we've all had to endure a temper tantrum from the Madison left that has now gone beyond tiring.
We all get equally disgusting letters every year..OUR PROPERTY TAX BILLS.
Allie, Get some sleep, woman!
This, you can bet, is not an effort promoted by anyone that calls themself a conservative.
This is liberal handiwork, through and through.
Invasive, parasitic species work that way.
Worse yet, now that the union pointed out which neighbors are registered but rarely vote, it would be simple to chose a name, walk in on election day, state that name and address and cast a ballot in that name. No ID required thanks.
That's what I'm guessing is the real purpose of this.
Yes, and that's the real germane difference between this and Verify. Verify was designed to catch cheating, after the fact. This is designed to promote cheating, before the fact.
"Titus said...
Cardinal Dolan is a liar and a piece of shit."
Although a non-Catholic, I came to know Cardinal Dolan when he was the Archbishop of Milwaukee. There are few public figures that I respect more.
You on the other hand are a vile disgusting piece of shit and a waste of DNA. If a dog was pissing on you I would give him a bowl of water.
All your votes are belong to us.
"Can you see the difference, Allie? Between doing something and not doing something and minding your own busines."
Liberal 'omniscients' like Allie are incapable of minding their own business.
They are so focused on everyone else that introspection is impossible.
Introspection can lead to self-awareness. Once one becomes properly self-aware, the business of others becomes less of an obsession.
Liberalism is a mental condition, make no mistake.
Don't Tread, did you miss the comment in which I said I thought it was unethical and wrong? Read the entire thread.
Allie, You are not boring my friend. If I didn't know better I would say, "Stalking is the sincerest form of flattery."
Allie: You are mistaken. I am not MamaM. (Nor, for that matter, did I have a single drink last night, as it happens.) I used to post here and elsewhere as reader_iam, it's true, but many have known that since late last year, and it's not a secret.
Allie
Yeah, my bad, I missed it. Good on you.
I was blinded by all the other posts of yours that lead us to conclude that you are a typical liberal busybody.
Wisconsin's version of card check.
"But what exactly is the issue?"
Democrats being oblivious to how sane people react to their "at all costs" strivings for power.
As usual.
Greater Wisconsin Fund/Greater Wisconsin Committee
Anti-Walker party line, and now 'we're watching you' threats. These guys must be the unions on stilts, peering into your windows and mailbox and election records.
Nice little life you've got there, be a shame if something happened to it.
If these well-heeled creeps have funds to root through records to select targets for harassment, who's providing them?
She ain't MamaM, hon.
Cause we all know the very best places to live are where 99% vote for Dear Leader.
Park the faux outrage car in someone else's garage.
Not voting is a valid choice. If you don't have a preference in the election, don't vote. If you think no one deserves your vote, don't vote.
... and then you went out and voted for Barack Hussein Obama (aka "Barry Soetero").
Outrage over what has been public knowledge for some time and is one way to get at voter fraud, but I am not surprised that Althouse who is so concerned with this issue would take umbrage. Just for historical background: Voter lists are officially public information in most states: many areas even post the lists of voters who turned out at each polling place on the polling place's door for a few days following the election. After that, however, it is very difficult to access an election's voter list. Nearly every county and state provides it only through a formal request. If more than just a few records are requested, the government charges a fee and often provides the data in a proprietary or hard-to-understand format.
*Shrug*. Have at it. I have the advantage of knowing you're 100% wrong in your conjectures. I've been open about my posting handles, and in fact there are many here who have known my real name and contact info for many years now (in some cases, including Althouse, since 2005).
I post on blogger only as rcommal, I do not stalk you, and for all these reasons, and more, I do not fear you.
Revenent@ 6:06
Good luck getting a coherent answer. In case you haven't noticed Allies posts are all about Allies and only periferraly about the subject.
An ego in search of an intellect. Ignore her.
Couple of things:
1. Ann, you must live in a very blue neighborhood. The strategy at work here is to ID neighborhoods with a very high percentage of D voters and cast a huge get-out-the-vote net. (i.e. If it's an 80/20 D neighborhood, the net pickup is huge.) They're most likely not sending this to rural Chippewa county.
2. That's the strategy. The tactic (i.e. this type of mailing) is abhorrent. I've never seen anything like it.
3. Voter files are public record.
4. If your neighbor's name isn't on this, it probably means their not registered to vote.
5. I undervote, and I do this stuff for a living.
Both the recall and who votes are public records and as such must be available in some form to the public.
What is creepy is sending out notices like this. Hopefully, it will backfire.
Reader (rcommal) is a very special, wonderful, intelligent woman, Allie. I can't imagine fighting with her.
bago:
If not voting is a valid choice, why the shame, why the creepiness? Why would people who have made a valid choice they are proud of not take pride in having their neighbors know it?
It would not bother me. I always vote and would be proud that is shown. If you are ashamed of your choices maybe you should reconsider them. In the place of peer review we get the nanny state. I'll take a little peer pressure - it's preserves choice. If I need to, I can explain myself to my neighbors, and they can just suck it.
Great insight.
r/v:
Just for historical background: Voter lists are officially public information in most states: many areas even post the lists of voters who turned out at each polling place on the polling place's door for a few days following the election.
Great point. It is very important for people to see if their names were voted with fradulently. I wonder how many of the recipients of this mail found they had voted, when they hadn't.
I did not know rcommal and reader_iam were the same.
If you are ashamed of your choices maybe you should reconsider them.
If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind a political group reporting your name, address, and activities to your neighbors!
@Sydney.
I got the same note in VA. Very creepy. I was the only Repub on the list.
Charles:
1. Ann, you must live in a very blue neighborhood. The strategy at work here is to ID neighborhoods with a very high percentage of D voters and cast a huge get-out-the-vote net. (i.e. If it's an 80/20 D neighborhood, the net pickup is huge.) They're most likely not sending this to rural Chippewa county.
2. That's the strategy. The tactic (i.e. this type of mailing) is abhorrent. I've never seen anything like it.
Group selection, baby (ie, whatever works). I wonder what it would it be like if this became a standard strategy for both sides.
A commenter on JS Online suggests that one is supposed to need the voter's ID and birthday to get these records. If so, there's a scandal here.
Wow. I couldn't for the life of me figure out the motive. But John Smith has it. A mass mailing to facilitate voter fraud. That's a big enough advantage to outweigh the anger this will cause. Just Wow.
The version of that flyer shown here is blatantly partisan, with Who votes is public record! replaced by Scott Walker won in 2010 because too many people stayed home!
This is a subtle invitation to fraud. Since no I.D. is necessary if you are on the roll, all one needs to do is identify their name and address and voila, a ballot is given. If one knows who is on the roll but never shows up to vote, then proclaim yourself to be that individual and cast their ballot. Even if the other person shows up, what can be done? Your false ballot has been cast and counted. The real individual has been disenfranchised! (and all valid voters as well). Recruit unethical friends and stuff the ballot boxes. Why should I not be cynical given the lefts continually blocking of voter I.D. and this type of invitation on their part to engage in fraud?
I didn't think I was capable of being shocked by politics any more, but this is truly awfully shocking.
The person who did it should be sued.
Reading this thread with some interest since I was recently (and shortly until I quit) involved with a fund raising for a local candidate for a national office. It is impressive and creepy just how much information that they have at their fingertips about the people who have donated.
It can be used ethically to contact like minded donors or UNETHICALLY as in this mailer. I agree about the voter fraud potential especially since the Dems are desperately blocking voter ID laws which are meant to deter fraud.
THEN I read this drivel.
I know what I speak of, no guessing, I suspected it for quite sometime. And Nick I'm tired of the abuse from her, there and now here. So if she wants to continue in this vein, she should be aware I know of her history here and there and other places.
Oh for Christ's sake. Stop with all the paranoia and drama and keep to the subject at hand. It really isn't always about you. You constantly accuse anonymous people on the internet of stalking you and of being other people who are also stalking you. You accused me of the same thing some time ago. Maybe I'm Mamma M!!!! Oooooh... put that in your tin foil hat and let that run around in your squirrel cage mind for a while.
Like Spartcus....we are all MM
Just sent to The Greater Wisconsin Political Fund
To whom it may concern,
I just read about an appalling mail campaign to invade privacy on par with what goes on in totalitarian states.
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2012/06/were-sending-this-mailing-to-you-and.html
This mailing is attributed to your organization. Obviously this must be the work of slimeball provocateurs, and not your fine, upstanding group. After all, such creepy, Maoist behaviour couldn't have been the brainchild of any decent organization that really is devoted to individuals as opposed to "the people" as some kind of abstract construct, right?
Looking forward to Tuesday's expression of individual sovereignty,
R. Lopez
12.09 Election Threats
(3) No person may personally or through an agent, by any act compel, induce, or prevail upon an elector either to vote or refrain from voting at any election for or against a particular candidate or referendum.
Isn't the mailer that Christian Schneider received getting pretty close to a violation?
I think so
I wonder if this was sent out to generate the opposite reaction to what it states ... thinking that some people would misread it, think that public records would show HOW THEY VOTED, and then stay home out of fear?
That would be one way to get those who are not activist-oriented to stay home and leave the choice to the partisans ... which might improve the chances of the underdog in this race.
Cowardly and desperate, if that's the case.
That was a massive post where you had to go online and spend time looking.. this is different.
if you want to find out who signed a recall petition, you have to make the effort to look them up.
Ya'll must not have heard about the newspaper ad that listed local residents who signed the petition.
Also, ya'll must not have heard about all the businesses that were called/faxed/emailed with the names of their employees that signed the petition.
It's a not very thinly disguised threat. "We know who you are, where you live, and how you vote. Watch your step."
That is kinda how I felt when I got a postcard, saying "We see that you signed the recall petition, did you really mean to do that?" from State Senator Scott Fitzgerald.
Can you say Backfire!
Because this will alarm some people when they see how many former neighbors are still registered at an old address.
Here In PA, I the voting rolls still have 4-5 former residents at our house.
Did your neighbors get the same card, PP?
If the GAB were truly interested in ethical elections, they'd mail post cards to all voters in the upcoming election informing them they had "voted". If they actually didn't vote, they could contact the GAB.
Think we'll see this anti-fraud initiative? Nah, me neither.
Yeah, AJ. I know of two voter roll errors on this mailing. The former owner of my home still enrolled at my address, after 18 years, and neighbor's son, who doesn't live there.
Mike:
18 years! We have been here for 5 years and I thought 5 years was disgraceful!
Can you say Backfire!
Because this will alarm some people when they see how many former neighbors are still registered at an old address
True. It is a graphic illustration of just how inaccurate and bad our current system of registration of voter is. Also a graphic illustration of the potential for more and more voter fraud.
After this, the opposition to voter ID laws, which is relatively small, will shrink even more.
PP, both actions by these two groups have overstepped the bounds of decency, both equally intrusive. Verify was every bit as creepy as this.
And then there's the neighbor with Alzheimers who hasn't voted. I guess the progressives would have us form up a posse, er, committee, and go talk to old ******.
I'm still waiting Allie; Tell me how making sure Mickey mouse didn't sign a recall petition was 'creepy'. You saying so doesn't make it so. Please. Elucidate.
Green, don't hold your breath. Didn't you read Purple Penguins comment? How was that any better?
"AllieOop said...
PP, both actions by these two groups have overstepped the bounds of decency, both equally intrusive. Verify was every bit as creepy as this."
Verify was not the one who did the actions. It's like blaming the GAB for this example mailer Ann got. You are a moron.
Jim in St Louis said...
But what exactly is the issue? Is it that a un-named right to privacy that we have been told is a penumbra from the constitution has been infringed? Or just the tone of the message?
I think that the issue is that it represents an attempt to politicize our personal relationships. Leftists want everything to be about politics. This is the natural result of the collectivist impulse, as can be seen in its extreme form in Communist countries.
I have the right to be let alone concerning my political behavior. I can participate or not, to the extent that pleases me. And my neighbor has that same right. When someone attempts to hijack my personal relationship with my neighbors, and turn it into a political relationship, by publicizing my or my neighbor's political behavior, it is not merely objectionable, it is a step on the road to collectivist tyranny.
Think it the other way around: they're not telling you who voted so you can congratulate the voters and shame the non-voters.
They're telling you who has a pattern of not voting, so they won't notice if someone votes for them.
Combined with the injunction that blocks the requirement of photo ID at the voting place, you now have the perfect recipe for voter fraud.
At the next hearing about the voter ID law, this should be entered as evidence in favor of lifting the injunction. No matter what the original intent is, it can be used for a very different purpose.
AllieOop said...
"But, but, but, didn't Meade say they were all Communists, except for his wife, at the very end of the video?"
Did I? Watch the video again and report back to us exactly what you see/hear, AllieOpp. Or were you trying to misrepresent what I said?
If Ann thinks this is creepy, what does she think of all those countries where voting is compulsory. It's not only dictatorships where it's part of the show but also many democratic ones.
Verify the Recall made a public record somewhat more accessible, but this is closer to putting a public record on a billboard. This is more like the publishing of teachers' salaries in Janesville.
Nothing in any of the three cases involved private information being made public, but there's a difference between having information available to anyone who goes looking for it and having information widely disseminated. Verify still made you look for what you were looking for, it just made it a little bit easier, and it had a more valuable function than public intimidation, even if it did make intimidation easier.
I think the Janesville teacher salary publishing was more immoral than this because I don't think it automatically backfires as clearly as this does. The Janesville flyers pointed out that there is quasi-public information about government employees that government employees might prefer not be broadcast. This mailing points out that there's quasi-public information about you that you might prefer not be broadcast. If the result of this mailing is that everybody hates and fears this group and that everybody realizes that the distinction between publicly accessible information and publicly searchable information is diminishing and that we might need to rethink which information is public, that strikes me as a double-win for society.
Leftards will stoop to nothing in their efforts to forward their poisonous and dangerous ideology.
Meade said...Did I? Watch the video again and report back to us exactly what you see/hear, AllieOpp.
Don't be stalking Allie.
Under any of your names.
On any site.
As jvermeer mentioned above, compulsory voting is the norm in many, many democratic countries. I think I've mentioned my experiences observing said practise in Brazil, where my voting neighbours got a national holiday (although it was Sunday) to vote, no alcoholic beverages were allowed to be sold until voting was over, and a strange little fringe benefit was that everyone stuck to their neighbourhood, since the queues were ENORMOUS for a population of 100 million +.
(In essence, this meant that all the thieves, nasty street urchins, prostitutes, etc were absent from Copacabana/Ipamema/Leblon for one glorious day)
Failure to vote is punished by not having your passport and other important documents, renewed. You have a bureaucratic nightmare on your hands, unless you had a major reason not to vote.
OH, and you present THREE IDs compulsorily to vote. None of these racisr accusations like in the USA.
Cheers,
Victoria
AllieOop said...
I do agree that it isn't ethical, I don't like it either, but it's no worse than Verify, let's not be hypocritical.
It's apples/oranges or didn't they teach you that in idiot school. To claim that this is hypocrisy is well idiotic. Verify was about verification of signatures, this is about shaming people by revealing whether they voted or not. And you are okay with that? Here is your dunce cap for you to sit facing the corner in idiot school.
Victoria!
Hey.
Allie Oop is too stupid to know that the GAB published every recallers information for the expressed purpose of public examination.
Allie Oop is too stupid to know that Verify the Recall did nothing more than take this info and make the task associated with the GAB expressed purpose easier...they put the info into a searchable database.
Allie Oop is too stupid to be able to differentiate between what third parties may have done with this info and the actions Verify the Recall.
By Allie Oop's stupid logic the GAB is creep, as is the state of Wisconsin for providing voting records on individuals.
If Althouse was a village Allie Oop would be our idiot. A close second of course is Purple Penguin, who oddly is still alive after the grave danger Act10 put her/him into...no guaranteed scheduled lunches and all. Having somehow survived, we get this bit of dishonest idiocy:
"That is kinda how I felt when I got a postcard, saying "We see that you signed the recall petition, did you really mean to do that?" from State Senator Scott Fitzgerald."
What the Penguin omits is the post card clearly indicated is purpose, to verify if they had signed the petition because of questionable signatures. As a matter of fact, the idea came from the similar actions by three Democrats who called petitioners from the previous round of recalls.
Finally, both these numbskulls make it a practice to accuse others of "stalking" if they post negative comments...often attributing past actions to the wrong people.
Milwaukee Journal Sentinal article on iVerify the Recall and who was behind it. You can try to spin it all you want, it was intrusive and used for purposes of intimidating those who signed the recall petitions
Hypocrites
B is creepy.
Paddy! Hello, darling! ...stuck with really bad WI-FI else so my hello post to all got swallowed up.
Hope to post a little more regularly this Tuesday, as I'm sure this joint will be jumping then. :)
HELLO TO ALL!
...wv: 9 ragout
Good grief ... Allie Oop bascially derails the post topic by the 4th comment and persists with the relativist meme of worsts. Then she cites a video and alleges a quote by Meade, but neglects to link to said video ... which was not part of the topical post here.
I fully grasp why Ann Althouse, given heer vocation and political sensitivity, would be put off by the mailer and its implications. I agree it was a sleezy gambit.
However, for myself, I could give a rat's tinker less if my voting record is published by anyone. Or if my signature does or does not appear on a petition. Or whether the salaries of public employees are published widely ... and I have been a military as well as federal civil servant person, and our pay is always public knowledge to anyone who can Google or go to the library and read. B. F. D.
For me, a mailer like the one cited in the primary post, would be in the recycle pile immediately, along with the Wal-Mart and Home Depot sale flyers, etc.
But I don't teach law... I have a hard enough time just obeying them.
Yes Paddy B Is creepy.
What would be the point in intimidating someone who already signed the recall petition?
Another thread AllieOoped.
I could give a rat's tinker less if my voting record is published by anyone. Or if my signature does or does not appear on a petition. Or whether the salaries of public employees are published widely .
I would care if my signature was on a petition that "I" didn't sign or for a cause that I don't support.
I assume that was the purpose of the verification program. To contact people whose signatures looked irregular or had wrong information to confirm that they actually signed. If you did sign, no big deal. If you didn't sign....a BIG deal.
As a voter I would really like to be able to access that information and check and see if someone has stolen my identity and stolen my vote.
Paddy O said...B is creepy.
Yup. And I'm MM. And Rcommal. And edutcher....and...
As a matter of fact, excepting Allie, I am every one associated with this site including both Meade and AA....and the hawks...and Spartacus.
... it was intrusive and used for purposes of intimidating those who signed the recall petitions.
Right, anyone who signed a phony signature is intimidated how? For that matter, how is some one who legitimately signed said petition intimidated? What is the intimidation?
BTW ... as mentioned previously, the VFR topic is NOT the topic of this post. Why do you keep citing it?
And trust me, I do not care one way or the other, except to note that you hijacked the thread by comment 4.
PP: "That is kinda how I felt when I got a postcard, saying "We see that you signed the recall petition, did you really mean to do that?" from State Senator Scott Fitzgerald."
PP has a habit of hyperbole and stretching the truth. I bet PP misquotes the post card. I bet it said: "did you really sign it", not "did you really mean to sign it".
If I'm wrong, I'll apologize.
Incidentally, despite having been a Clerk of a voting precinct and being one do these enthusiastic new American citizens, I am 100% on the side of allowing each citizen to decide if they wish to vote or not. I find people who don't vote to be almost reprehensible in their civic duties, but it's their right to exercise them if they wish.
I can also think of another shame-making aspect of this mailer: what if you catch your neighbour in a lie? They said they voted in a previous election, but records show they did not.
It's always the blowhards who never shut up about politics, who do that, too.
This will backfire just like the Tromka intimidation hurt things. Timing is everything.
Victoria! hugs!
"AllieOop said...
Milwaukee Journal Sentinal article on iVerify the Recall and who was behind it. You can try to spin it all you want, it was intrusive and used for purposes of intimidating those who signed the recall petitions"
Nothing in that article supports your point. Zero. Even "who was behind it" is lame..."tea party groups".
But I will tell you is behind Ann's letter...one of the largest Democratic fund raising groups in the state, who is associated with Act Blue, who is the largest fund raining group for Democrats in the country.
Dust Bunny Queen ... you are right, I overlooked that feature. My error and thanks for illuminating that aspect.
If I hadn't signed said petition, I might take some offense. If I could determine who circulated the specific petition with my fraudulent signature on it, I might even take some uncivilized action.
However, the VFR issue was not the topic of this post originally. I'm really tired of this "he/she/they hit back first" relativist stuff. Why can't the merits or deficiencies of the post topic be discussed without the "cross armed salute" of they did it worse?
Again, thanks ... I did miss the point of some one faking my signature.
As I said upthread, I think post cards are a great idea. The GAB should mail a post card after every election informing the receipiant that, according to polling records, they voted.
They should not, of course, send the same post card to the voters neighbors.
"Original Mike said...
PP has a habit of hyperbole and stretching the truth. I bet PP misquotes the post card. I bet it said: "did you really sign it", not "did you really mean to sign it".
If I'm wrong, I'll apologize." As I indicated in a previous post, PP omits that the post card clearly indicates the reason for the sending...and also clearly indicates that the receiver should let them know if they did not sign. Easily found on google. So you are correct.
Chicklit, Mad Men-like hugs!! ;)
Also x2, I even hate robocalls. I received one quite recently from presumptive Republican vice-presidential cnadidate (I wish!), Sen Marco Rubio, and I hung up immediately.
Please, politicos and activist minions, leave me alone.
Okay, Allie, so it's that you didn't follow.
1. I didn't use the word "communists", someone else did.
and 2. Big difference between "she is one of the few law professors who is not..." and "they were all Communists, except for [my] wife". Right?
Or do you not see the difference?
Not voting is not legal in Austrailia. So much for equating liberty and democracy.
Disgusting. I just received this mailer in the name of a former roommate who hasn't been a legal resident of Wisconsin for almost a decade. Are the scum at Greater Wisconsin Committee advocating that he vote illegally or just pointing out that he's still on the poll list so that someone else can vote illegally in his name?
There is something else about this that is stupid.
If I was in charge of a vicious little operation like this, I'd like to think that I'd have the good sense to compile a list of a couple hundred names of Wisconsin people like Ann Althouse, Meade Lawrence, Christian Schneider, David Blaska, Steve Hayes(?), Greta Van Sustern(?!), etc., etc.; AND TAKE THEM OFF THE FREAKING MAILING LIST!
This is not merely offensive; it is stupid.
"Lawrence Meade," not "Meade Lawrence." Sorry. Must have been the damn last-name-first mailing list that I am working off of. ;-)
I think Meade spells his last name "Laurence" .... just sayin' :-)
Here is an explanation from the website of Verify the Recall explaining what the project was all about:
"What can you do to help secure the integrity of Wisconsin's elections?
Volunteer to Verify The Recall!
We have all been hearing reports of duplicate signatures, questionable practices, and downright fraud in the gubernatorial recall effort. In the last few weeks, there has been a public outcry to build a system to check the submitted signatures after learning that the Government Accountability Board (GAB) will assume all signatures are valid unless challenged as otherwise. The integrity of Wisconsin's elections and associated processes are at stake; free and honest elections - the cornerstone of our political process - are being threatened.
In response, We the People of the Republic and The Wisconsin Grandsons of Liberty have teamed up to organize an effort to check the validity of ALL signatures submitted in the ongoing gubernatorial recall! Software has been developed by True The Vote that will help identify duplicate signatures and other signature irregularities (questionable addresses, etc.). Additionally, individuals will be able to look up their name and address on a website to see if they have been included as a petition signor. By taking such efforts, we will be able to protect the integrity of Wisconsin's elections by ensuring that only legitimate Wisconsin electors are counted - once - as signors of petitions!"
In short, Verify the Recall is all about detecting voter fraud since the state of Wisconsin did nothing to prevent fraud on the recall signatures. Verify the Recall is an admirable project designed to protect the integrity of the voting process (since Wisconsin won't).
OTOH, the Orwellian spy on your neighbor email from the dems that Althouse got is a dem project that violates the privacy of individuals. The dem project is designed to either get out the dem vote and/or facilitate dem voter fraud.
The two projects are not morally equivalent. The GOP project was admirable while the dem project is reprehensible.
I don't find this disgusting as much as childish and stupid. In California, that you voted IS public record. Anyone can go to any poling place and look at the roster hanging on the door (it's updated by polling workers throughout the day) and see exactly which of the people in the immediate neighborhood have already voted, and identify their party affiliation as well. HOW they voted is what's private (though one could surmise that a Democrat probably did not vote for the Republican candidates).
Therefore I don't see the point of this mailing. Unless you know your neighbors' political leanings, why would you want to encourage, much less some how shame them into voting? I'd be wanting the more liberal ones NOT to vote.
Scott Walker:
You may already be a winner!!!!!!!
Oh sure. Republicans are trying to get out the vote in Madison.
This is no "get out the vote" effort--it's a blatant attempt to intimidate and threaten voters that if they don't vote, their name will be published and made available to anyone who will. A voter's vote is his or her to do with as he/she wishes--not for groups to try to exploit and manipulate. This is disgusting.
This isn't a 'joke', as someone said. I got one of these yesterday and today Baratte people showed up looking to talk to my upstairs neighbors, who are registered but don't vote.
Send this flyer out will surely back-fire on Baratte.
What an ass.
Althouse --
What part of Feingold's "This game's not over until we win" did you not comprehend?
There will be no peace, no privacy, no area of life untouched by the ugliness of politics until the left wins (or is utterly crushed). Political control is all they have to live for.
The point of the mailing is the implied threat. Whether the information is available elsewhere is not the point. They want you to know they are watching and have information about you. The union racket has perfected this kind of subtle intimidation. Thuggery is thuggery.
This mailing is a twofer. If "get out the vote" doesn't work, "get out the voter fraud" might help.
Agree that the "spy on your neighbors" vibe is creepy, and turns off a lot of people. If Dem groups keep this up, the Party will be reduced to a fringe group made up of creepy weirdos and thugs.
Hey... this actually kind of reminds me of that web app from the Obama campaign in 2008. Anyone else remember that? Where they let you put your friend's name in and then the fake newscasters read stories about how Obama lost because [your friend's name] didn't vote? Then it was a click to email the video to them.
"This may be the most disgusting thing I have ever received in the mail."
Maybe, but it won't hold the record for long--the stuff the Obama campaign or its 527s will send out if he's not a lock by mid-October will be beyond belief.
When did Nanny Bloomberg move to Wisconsin?
Wow! This is like totally motivating me to get out and vote for whoever they're endorsing!
Can I report you to AttackWatch and Obama's Truth Teams for complaining about this?
I think Freeman, Charles, William, and Anita's replies really express what most of us feel about this mailer.
It's the unwanted exposure of a private act, tied to the implied threat of vigilance.
Creepy, oh yes. But also it reeks of loser.
Cheers,
Victoria
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