So how to think about The Post’s story of Romney and the purportedly gay prep school classmate he bullied? Recklessness is a common side-effect of adolescence — drinking too much, driving too fast. Meannesss is another matter. Yes, teenager are more prone to displaying the primal cruelty of “Mean Girls” and “Lord of the Flies” than their grown-up selves. But the Queen Bees of middle school have an unpleasant tendency to grow into the Real Housewives of Wherever.Now, yesterday, when we first looked at this story, I brought up the anecdote in Obama's "Dreams From My Father," in which Obama had "found" himself in the playground horsing around with a "plump and dark" girl named Coretta who "didn’t seem to have many friends." Suddenly, he saw that he was surrounded by "a group of children," whom he describes as "faceless." (This is a literary conceit: Of course, the children had faces, but from his perspective, with "the glare of the sun" behind them, they appeared faceless.) The children chanted "Coretta has a boyfriend!," and Obama "stammered" “She’s not my g-girlfriend,” and then — as the chants continued and poor Coretta stared downward — he shouted "I’m not her boyfriend!" Then he "ran up to Coretta and gave her a slight shove," causing her to "stagger[]" back and look at him. He shouted at the poor girl: "Leave me alone!"
Romney’s reported leadership in the episode; his merciless wielding of the scissors to snip off the bleached-blond hair that seemingly so offended his sense of propriety, his continuing cuts in the face of John Lauber’s cries for help — these do not speak well of him.
And suddenly Coretta was running, faster and faster, until she disappeared from sight. Appreciative laughs rose around me. Then the bell rang, and the teachers appeared to round us back into class.Obama was an abject follower, who responded to chants, and gained the reward of "appreciative chants." As an adult, looking back, his descriptions drip with weird passivity. There's zero will involved in his playing with the girl. He simply "found" himself with her. Then the group of "faceless" children were there, then Coretta "disappeared," and then "teachers appeared." It's like he's sleepwalking in ghost world, where human beings are apparitions.
Ruth Marcus says "You want to imagine your future president in the role of the wise-for-his-years leader who intervenes to calm the howling mob of his more foolish peers." Yes, it would be better if Romney's role in boyhood bullying had been to apply his leadership tendency for the good. But Obama's role in boyhood bullying was as a follower of the bullies — responding to the "howling mob."
पोस्ट्स
२०५ टिप्पण्या:
205 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Well, Obama just got bullied into supporting gay marriage by his young daughters, so he apparently is still vulnerable to middle school students. Thank God the Putins of the world are NOT middle school students, or we'd be screwed....
What icepick said.
Obama is still a follower, while Romney is still a leader.
You want to argue that Romney is an evil leader, please do this using examples from the last 40 years.
And that's my biggest complaint here. 47 years is a long time, and a lot of change can occur during that time.
Are the members of the media ACTUALLY going to follow this inane story?
I dont think anythink in his fictional nonfiction can be trusted to do anything but show himself i the best light.
Do we really have to do this, or are we just stinky, hairy fat kids with a child's set of priorities?
I had a girl come up to me and suddenly cut a large chunk of my hair out in junior high. she was mad that her dad was dating my mom. I never really held it against her other than making my class photo that year look ridiculous, but probably no more ridiculous than my Saturday Night Fever shirt did. Hi Kristen!
The inconsistencies of the source, even if he was actually there, and the fact that it was a different world in the 60's make this quite a non issue. Assuming it happened, which I am not, Romney was in fact a follower, since virtually anyone "different" at that time was the subject of ridicule. He may have been the leader of that particular group of kids, but tormenting the kid was not his unique idea. It happened all the time. In my mixed ethnic New Jersey neighborhood growing up, almost everyone on the street had a nickname related to their origins. Today to call somebody "Wop", "Mick", or "Bagel" might not pass muster, but then it was the norm.
Ann,
There's no substitute for hearing Obama actually read the words you've highlighted -- Breitbart.TV published the full audio you cite, yesterday:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV?id={D4550F3F-AA78-43C1-AAC3-2AFE5FD0030B}&title=Obama-Bullied-And-Shoved-A-Little-Black-Girl
Also, this YouTube video shows that in his memoir Obama confessed to bullying Coretta, using his own definition of "bullying" (which includes shoving) -- skip to 4:50 to get the final minute, and the gist of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5oNUKLYgRE
H/t Gateway Pundit:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/05/in-his-own-words-obama-admits-smoking-reefer-drinking-beer-and-enthusiastically-doing-drugs-in-high-school-video/
Did Romney "bully" a real person or a composite one? Because this story is falling apart and the WaPo will soon be collecting the Stephen Glass Award for Excellence in Prevarication.
What about Obama "bullying" his buddy Tim by calling him and Uncle Tom? I don't think he even really meant it, he was just trying to win the approval of the other cool kids (in his 20s).
I'm hoping that the meany Romney gets Obama on the ground and gives him a hair cut that Obama won't easily forget!
The pretend world is so interesting sometimes. Like a movie where you agree tacitly to suspend reality for the moments that allow fiction. No reason at all to doubt the incident being described, but you know how you get a distinct voice from the things that you read and this is not even close.
Oh come now, make up your mind:
Either Obama was a brave leader to respond to gay's pressure for a marriage endorsement or he's still a fearful follower with no mind of his own.
Either way, they're both losers, if you ask me.
But - Hey - Y'all want 'em!
One guy who assaults gays and another who lies to them and exploits them.
"Best man for the job!" - that's been the call, twice, in your case, Ann.
I sincerely think few of you even understand what a man is anymore. I know my call for speaking honestly has been ridiculed by those seeking to push their various agendas.
Few have ever told me what those people are,...
Why shouldn't they? You are.
Yes, noting that Althouse has posts about the media reporting on a laughable story, amazingly, is the fault of a commenter from SC.
I'm the master planner!
As Ed Morrissey said “It’s one reason not to vote for a teenager for president,”
What the WaPo seems to be utterly missing, is that the one of the lines on Romney is that he's to soft.
This is countering that line to Romney's advantage.
Romney is actually looking better as a bully.
America doesn't like perfect leaders.
This is another epic fail where the left's narrative turns on them.
It is absolutely incredible that the Washington Post and the liberal media thinks they can make an issue of this. They will try just about anything and pretend they are upset about it or it is a big issue. Here, they say with a straight face that a little prep school rough housing (which was a mean thing to do) 50 years ago was significant, while Obama as the same stage of his life was doing cocaine and a truant from school, yet not a word. I love it when the conservatives go to Obama's book (that everyone loved and no one read) to find counter points on the dog and now the bully issue.
Assuming it happened, which I am not, Romney was in fact a follower, since virtually anyone "different" at that time was the subject of ridicule.
Also, this is a boy's boarding school we're talking about, right? Aren't they notorious for this kind of thing being part of their culture? I suppose the American schools might not have had quite the culture of sadomasochism and pederasty as the English schools, but still. Same idea.
Romney is actually looking better as a bully.
Man, you guys will spin anything - any way you can - to make this work, won't you?
Listen to me:
HE'S A LOSER!
Stick that square peg in the round hole as hard as you want and it's still going to be a bad fit - and the holes in your work will still be there.
We've now entered mass delusion, people. Welcome,...
Crack, I share your disdain for both candidates. But it really doesn't matter what we think, because one of these two clowns is going to get elected come November. I refuse to vote because I'm not going to reward one party for nominating a disaster on the premise that the OTHER GUYS are going to run a catastrophe.
But I'm not gonna fool myself into believing that I'm accomplishing much by not voting.
In the meantime, I'm gonna skewer the guy IN OFFICE because he actually has power NOW, and he has a record in office. So he gets the bulk of my disdain. If Romney gets elected, he'll get the same disrespect unless he REALLY surprises to the upside, and that ain't happening with the Congress we're going to have.
Shorter Althouse:
"Sure, maybe Romney was a high-school bully who led a group of people to assault a gay fellow-student, and now lies about not remembering it. But at least he was not an elementary-aged kid who once pushed a girl to show a crowd of teasing classmates she was not his girlfriend, then honestly reflected on his guilt about the incident in a book about his life. After all we want LEADERS in the White House, not followers."
Wow. I have not been back to read this blog for years. Then I choose to come back, today, and read this, and realize it is just as stupid as I remember it.
Assuming it happened, which I am not,...
He apologized. I'm assuming it happened,...
I don't see how Romney's cutting the kid's hair was such a bad thing. This was at a private school where, as an acknowledged leader, Romney had a responsibility to uphold standards. If he had bullied a kid into picking up trash, would anyone be criticizing him? Well, standards of appearance were obviously part of the standards at Romney's school. Check out Breitbart's picture of Romney on his bicycle at school:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/10/Washington-Post-Hit-Piece-Implodes
Jacket, tie, white shirt, black socks, dress shoes. And this lowly Lauber kid decided he was going to challenge that. When his challenge failed, his eyes welled up with tears. Good. Cry little crybaby. Lauber wasn't even ready to bear a little pain-free pushback?
I understand Romney being a bit remorseful now, but isn't that like parents being remorseful when they recall the times they had to punish their children? It doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it.
The Obama story on the other hand really does show a lack of character.
Wow. I have not been back to read this blog for years. Then I choose to come back, today, and read this, and realize it is just as stupid as I remember it.
Good riddance.
Go back to your warm cozy echo-chamber, and be sure to not let the door hit you on the way out.
(Is that bully language - "...hit you on the way out"?)
The Daily Caller's Matt Lewis noticed an odd discrepancy in WaPo's tale:
"A question emerges in reading the Washington Post piece on Mitt Romney today: How can Romney’s old pal Stu White tell the Washington Post that he has 'long been bothered by the Lauber incident' — and then later admit to ABC News that he was 'not present for the prank' and 'was not aware of it until this year when he was contacted by the Washington Post'?"
See, this is why we can't have nice leaders.
There's audio of Obama actually reading these words, at Breitbart.TV:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV?id={D4550F3F-AA78-43C1-AAC3-2AFE5FD0030B}&title=Obama-Bullied-And-Shoved-A-Little-Black-Girl
Also, my YouTube video uses clips from Obama's 2011 speech on bullying to show that what he confessed in 1995 to doing to Coretta is "bullying," using his own definition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5oNUKLYgRE
I didn't intend to be critical of your noting this. I think being disgusted by a story is another form of interest in it, and from the media's point of view is an asset to them.
I think this story has some legs.
That the press is reporting on allegations --- which are false according to the victim's family --- from over 50 years ago is the story. That the press is THAT in the tank for Obama is the story.
THIS story is immaterial. It is an example of the problem.
Big difference. Liberals love to bully "plump" people, and hate it whenever anyone who might at one time in their lives have been gay, had gay thoughts, or might have been thought of as gay.
I think the liberal secretly are proud of Obama for having been so severe on the chubby girl in middle school. It follows his policies will hurt her even more through restrictive food taxes and less access to health care. Serves her right, when you think about it.
"You know, when I woke up this morning and I'm shaving, and Malia knocks on my bathroom door and she peeks in her head and she says, 'did you shove that plump girl yet, Daddy?'"
Obama bullied the girl because he hadn't become Black yet and didn't like the implication.
By all means, let's talk about bullies.
The Obama story on the other hand really does show a lack of character.
They both show a lack of character. You're seeing what you want to see. Romney's isn't a story of leadership any more than Obama's. I've seen cowards beat people up, and that's what we have here. It hardly sound like a fair fight and I've seen no evidence Romney has ever picked one in his life.
I've also seen brave men refuse to fight. I don't see that in Obama's example either. As his gay coming out shows, he's a coward when it comes to peer pressure.
I have a friend who is a true coward. He will do or say anything to avoid confrontation of any kind. Despite loving him, and enjoying his company when we're alone, I refuse to spend a lot of time with him around others (because he'll sell anyone out) but I respect him for being what he is.
More than these two bozos, anyway,...
They both show a lack of character.
Exactly.
How can Romney’s old pal Stu White tell the Washington Post that he has 'long been bothered by the Lauber incident' — and then later admit to ABC News that he was 'not present for the prank' and 'was not aware of it until this year when he was contacted by the Washington Post'?"
Even better, if it didn't happen, what does it say about Romney that he apologized?
I told you guys to vett this moron,...
Not being covered, especially by teh WaPo, of course, is this news: NBC reports Romney Bullying Story Labeled "Factually Incorrect" by Family of Alleged Victim.
Pesky details. They interfere with the meme.
It was not that much fun growing up, but man, I am glad I grew up when I did and not with these batshit crazy loony lefties of today.
They both show a lack of character.
Right. The man who donated his inheritance to charity,
then married (and stayed married for over 40 years) and raised a good family,
and provided for them well,
and took $1 for salary at every public service position he's held -
That's the guy that has no character.
Analysis of amazing insight and reasoning, Icepick.
Add that to the conclusion that such a man that bullied kids in high school is meaner than the man that cheats on his wife, and you'll show yourself to be a top thinker.
NBC reports Romney Bullying Story Labeled "Factually Incorrect" by Family of Alleged Victim.
Crack's point is valid: If he didn't do it, why did he apologize?
Let's try assuming what appears to be obvious:
1) The Romney-bully story is a lie.
2) The Obama story is true.
3) Romney did a pseudo-apology because, as he said, he doesn't remember it but acknowledged that he did some stupid things when young, and is sorry for them.
4) Obama told his story in order to similarly confess flaws.
These are both non-stories. There's nothing to be deduced from Obama's story, and if some real evidence comes out to support the people saying the Romney-bully story, then we might have something, but no, we got nothin'.
What's the cut off line for bullying? Grade school? High School? Oval Office?....I'm thinking of JFK and the way he bullied his intern into giving a bj to a subordinate. Neat move. He didn't manage to dissipate his guilt, but he did manage to implicate everyone in it. That's real leadership. I wonder what Ruth Marcus said about it...When a Democrat fucks up, it's a growth experience, part of the learning curve that makes him such a paragon of wisdom and virtue. When a Republican screws up, it's irrevocably part of who he is and is the essential, salient fact about him. All you need to know about Romney is that he behaved badly in high school......I can see why the family of this guy are upset about this. It may very well have happened, but I don't think the guy involved would want to be remembered in history as the kid who was bullied by Romney. He went on to lead a useful life, and he probably shook the experience off.
No one should rationalize this behavior. If Romney did this, it was wrong, bad, etc. Technically, it was a crime.
However, it was also 47 years ago. If Democrats could support a man who left a lady to drown in a car for president, and lionize him in the Senate, I don't see how this should matter.
And Crack, Romney apologized for general actions, not this specific one. Please work on your reading comprehension.
The Merciless Scissors would be a great name for a band.
"He apologized. I'm assuming it happened,..."
You should know better than to assume anything that's reported is accurate, Crack. Romney apologized only in the most general terms for "stupid" HS behavior and specifically said he had no memory of this incident.
Re: Crack Emcee:
Even better, if it didn't happen, what does it say about Romney that he apologized?
Look at his apology:
“Back in high school, I did some dumb things, and if anybody was hurt by that or offended, obviously I apologize for that,” Romney said in a live radio interview with Fox News Channel personality Brian Kilmeade. Romney added: “I participated in a lot of hijinks and pranks during high school, and some might have gone too far, and for that I apologize.”
There's nothing in that to suggest that he remembers this specific incident -- I think he's said in public he doesn't have a recollection one way or the other. But he does know he engaged in "hijinks and pranks" and that "some might have gone too far," and he's sorry about that. So maybe it did happen, maybe it didn't.
The journalists involved obviously chose to write their article now because they wanted to manufacture a homophobia storyline, and not all Romney's high school hijinks are going to play into that, but pranks can be pretty hurtful (or at least extremely irritating), so even if this one was based on lies, or blown out of proportion, there probably are old classmates who could come forward talking about how Romney did something hurtful to them back when they were 16. And Romney knows it, which is why he apologised.
GM: 47 years is a long time, and a lot of CHANGE can occur during that time.
White Mormon Romney is a flip-flopper.
Half-white Darwinist Obama who hasn't done with evolving is leading from behind.
Romney admits he did dumb things, but specifically said the Lauber attack was not one of those dumb things he did. So, let's get some Monkey Business like photos or accept the WaPo lied.
This can go up with Iseman and National Guard letters as a reminder that the media lies about Republican candidates shamelessly until called on the carpet.
That the story is a lie has no effect on the Media. That only multiplies the times it gets to be repeated.
So the story is the issue.
Romney was bold and reveled in being the macho leader. Barry was meek and cunning and only cared what people thought of him.
This story too may backfire on the Obama Campaign's Media Auxiliary.
The intent is clearly to attach a Alfred Hitchcock like weirdo image to the mysterious Mormon Man in hopes of setting off the evangelical's fears.
CAN YOU TRUST The mysterious Mormon Man???? How can you trade a known quantity for the UNKNOWN???
Should also point out that this guy who was bullied by Romney never identified as gay.
But it's still being implied as gay bullying.
"But Obama's role in boyhood bullying was as a follower of the bullies — responding to the 'howling mob.'"
So what happened with Romney in regards to Richard Grenell?
RE the post and most of the comments: Gee, I still don't know why people refer to this as a right wing blog..
Crack: Man, you really can shred when you get going.
what does it say that one of them self-disclosed and the other was Mitt Romney?
Nothing. What IS bothersome is one of them wrote it in a book and we're now talking about it FOUR YEARS AFTER WE ELECTED HIM AND HE'S DESTROYED THE ECONOMY and the other guy is now THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT.
In other words, we've fucked ourselves - again.
Congratulations, you it's-all-about-the-economy jackasses:
For two presidential elections in a row, you behaved as though you're a bunch of vain and spiteful judges on American Idol, instead of citizens of the United States with a responsibility to protect the republic.
One thing Althouse doesn't seem to account for however is what does it say that one of them self-disclosed and the other was Mitt Romney?
Well actually, the "self-disclosed" thing just gets Obama in more trouble. It seems clear there WAS no plump, dark-skinned black girl in Obama's fifth grade class -- here's the class photo:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/17/us/politics/17hawaii.html
To the best of my recollection, Obama or someone close to him has admitted that "Coretta" is a pseudonym, and the girl this supposed self-disclosure was based on has denied anything like this ever happened. So apparently this is just another fake character in Obama's supposedly non-fiction book.
If we can get Edwards with his love child, we can get better proof than some folks shaky testimony, is all I'm saying. Put the Enquirer on the case.
Add that to the conclusion that such a man that bullied kids in high school is meaner than the man that cheats on his wife, and you'll show yourself to be a top thinker.
All of that looks good on a resume, especially when you're running for president. If that's your long term goal.
Look. Romney is a politician. Very few of them can be trusted. The only agenda you can be sure they have is to achieve power. Character only goes so far.
Quayle,
Right. The man who donated his inheritance to charity,...
He donated it to the Morman cult. Don't try to bullshit me, O.K.?
They'll gladly pay it back this November,...
Even better, if it didn't happen, what does it say about Romney that he apologized?
Seriously. Unless did something horrific as a teenager that you are really sorry about, don't apologize. In fact. Don't apologize for anything unless you really mean it.
The best response would have been something on the lines of.
"This is just another made up distraction by the Media and Obama's political goons....I'm not going to address it. I want to talk about the things that REALLY matter to the American people. Economy, Jobs and Freedom."
He should take that stance on every single stupid distraction that they are trying to throw up into the air.
I'm in California so it doesn't matter WHO I vote for, since we are always going to be outvoted by the liberal morons and be stuck with the likes of Pelosi and Governor Moonbeam.
I'm debating on what name I will write in. I think Zaphod Beeblebrox
Getting away from the absurdity of the story for a minute, one thing about it is interesting to me.
I went to school in a small town in the south not too far from the time of Romney's teens. We weren't exactly an enlightened group, but we did have our own sense of right and wrong.
One thing that just wasn't done was physically "ganging up" on another kid, whether he was one of our clique or not. (OK, we really didn't have cliques)
Don't recall ever seeing such and I'm pretty sure I would have joined in a rebuke of anyone who tried it. A strong sense what we saw as fair play was ingrained in our culture and uneven odds was out of bounds.
Just pointing out a social or maybe regional difference that stood out as I read the story.
If Democrats could support a man who left a lady to drown in a car for president, and lionize him in the Senate, I don't see how this should matter.
This is exactly the kind of screwed up "logic" that's led us to the fucked up situation this country is in.
Ever heard the phrase, one wrong doesn't excuse another?
Rabel,
Teenage boys are a major source of crime. I have no doubt that you missed out on a lot of deviant acts from your male classmates.
I'm willing to believe this story (in spite of the shoddy reporting, dubious witnesses, etc.), but this was 47 years ago.
If he'd killed someone, or raped someone? Those crimes matter. Assault, bullying? Unless you can link it to a pattern of behavior that is evident today (or even 20 years ago), I really don't care.
Romney cut the kid's hair.
Smoking Nazis kicked him out of school, which probably led directly to his death 46 years later.
Balfegor, well said. Sounds right to me.
Rabel, I know what you mean. When I was a kid in Arizona in the 70s and 80s, one-on-one bullying happened and was wrongly tolerated to some extent, but ganging up (physically) was rare, because even the bullies knew it made them appear weak. (Social/emotional/mental ganging up was common.)
That's a pretty crappy standard, but it held up for the most part. I don't think it's universal at all, though; it could easily vary from neighborhood to neighborhood, culture to culture, and decade to decade.
If Romney should not be elected, then shouldn't his co-conspirators be stripped of their honors and jobs as well?
Let's see one of them quit in shame like they want Romney, then, maybe, I'll take it seriously. Isn't one of them a teacher or principal now? With this terrible atrocity over their heads?
Excuse me if I take this as seriously as they had before the nomination was secure. At least Romney's not asking if anyone has heard any good Lauber jokes lately.
This WaPo is indulging in complete stupid bullshit. Judging 65 year old men on something they did in high school is absurd unless it's a criminal act for which the statute of limitaions hasn't expired.
Do you like having a cokehead for president? I DON'T! NO COKEHEADS FOR PRESIDENT!! We need a man, a man who is a decent, clean living man, despite a juvenuile indescrition or two, like Mitt Romney, not some cokehead from Chicago.
I graduated from a midwestern high school in 1966; Romney in 1965. I support gay rights. But at that time, in that place, a kid who was believed to be gay would be lucky to be pranked and have his hair cut. Much more likely he would have had the everloving shit kicked out of him. Guys, no matter how enlightened they might have been in other areas, absolutely loathed homosexuality.
Romney apologized only in the most general terms for "stupid" HS behavior and specifically said he had no memory of this incident.
Having no memory of something doesn't mean it didn't occur. And, if the man is apologizing, then he did something worthy of it.
Jesus, do I have to explain everything to you guys?
The problem is, was, and shall be, that if there is a problem or problems with Romney - and I guarantee you there are - you don't want to know. You want to block for him, or put your fingers in your ears and sing la-la-la-la-la-la!
ANYTHING but do your duty to your country.
As I said, this is now a failure of YOURS and not just Romney or Obama.
You are the ones fucking up, and acting like children, for two elections in a row.
Crackhead writes: "Romney's isn't a story of leadership any more than Obama's. I've seen cowards beat people up, and that's what we have here."
Nobody got beat up. A kid had his non-conforming hair cut. This was at a private school, which was allowed to enforce standards for such things.
Good going Romney. He would have made kids pull their pants up too. To think that this is something horrible is really ... what is the best word, effeminate? Kind of an insult to women. The slang term is "gay," which is kind of an insult to gays, but look who is embracing this mentality: gays.
More on #WaPo: 'The Left's Coordinated 'Bullying' Attack on Romney Exposed as 'Unconscionable' Journalism: Progressives Cheer 'Brilliant' Political Strategy of Axelrod and Plouffe'.
phx, you're correct; I'm anti-Obama (though I voted for him in 2008).
What about my statement, though, convinced you of that?
Analysis of amazing insight and reasoning, Icepick.
The analysis was The Crack Emcee's, not mine. That's to give credit where credit is do, as I agreed with it.
But the question isn't whether or not Romney (or Obama) has done other good deeds. The question is whether or not these particular bullying stories show good character on the part of our Presidential candidates.
So, are you telling me that Romney and some other guys jumping ONE PERSON for not being a clone is an example of good character? Here's to that individualism that makes America great!
Geoff,
"Teenage boys are a major source of crime. I have no doubt that you missed out on a lot of deviant acts from your male classmates."
Note the "small" in small town. And no, teenage boys were not a major source of crime in my world.
Also a note; as of this moment, WaPo -still- had not issued a notice about the correction(s?) made to the story to bring it in line with actual facts. The corrected text is still, also, in error.
Unless you can link it to a pattern of behavior that is evident today (or even 20 years ago), I really don't care.
He's a Mormon. The same crew that has gay kids killing themselves in record numbers. That had to be forced to stop baptizing Jews against their will. That insisted blacks are less than human, long after everyone else, and still play dodgey with the the truth of their feelings today.
Long story short - a cult that has to be FORCED to do the right thing because they won't respond to honest pleas for reason.
Mitt Romney is their "White Horse" - Link made.
You see the same passiveness in another Dreams from my Father anecdote you highlighted recently, when Obama felt "obliged to explain" to more "conscious" brothers his association with a black student who, by Obama's own description, acted white. Only this was while Obama was in college, not grade school or even high school.
As long as we're digging into decades-old bad actions of our presidential candidates, I'd like to find out what happened to that student, who Obama joked should change his name from Tim to Tom. Was Tim aware that he was considered an outsider, even a traitor to his race, by Obama and other African-American students. How did/does having his racial identity attacked make him feel? Does he agree that majoring in business and wearing argyle sweaters means he was in fact acting white? Do the extremely ugly words used by Obama have any bearing on his fitness to lead?
If Romney's actions as a 16 year old 50 years ago are relevant, surely Obama's actions as a 20-something college student just 25 years ago are matter even more.
ayle said...
I'm hoping that the meany Romney gets Obama on the ground and gives him a hair cut that Obama won't easily forget!
Actually, a better thing would be for Romney to give Obama a wedgie during the first presidential debate, and then say that he's not going to apologize to America's enemies, either.
You see the same passiveness in another Dreams from my Father anecdote you highlighted recently, when Obama felt "obliged to explain" to more "conscious" brothers his association with a black student who, by Obama's own description, acted white. Only this was while Obama was in college, not grade school or even high school.
As long as we're digging into decades-old bad actions of our presidential candidates, I'd like to find out what happened to that student, who Obama joked should change his name from Tim to Tom. Was Tim aware that he was considered an outsider, even a traitor to his race, by Obama and other African-American students. How did/does having his racial identity attacked make him feel? Does he agree that majoring in business and wearing argyle sweaters means he was in fact acting white? Do the extremely ugly words used by Obama have any bearing on his fitness to lead?
If Romney's actions as a 16 year old 50 years ago are relevant, surely Obama's actions as a 20-something college student just 25 years ago matter even more.
Alec Rawls,
Nobody got beat up. A kid had his non-conforming hair cut. This was at a private school, which was allowed to enforce standards for such things.
Ahh, so Romney was an administrator? The principal?
Or just another jerk playing BIG MAN ON CAMPUS?
You're being cock-eyed, Alec
I think Coretta is obviously a composite of all the women Obama has bullied in his life, up to and including Hillary Rodham Clinton whom he flipped off on live national television.
phx, well, you quoted my point (2) ("The Obama story is true), but OK, so you think my saying the Romney-bully story is obviously a lie is proof of non-objectivity.
As I said, "try assuming what appears to be obvious". You appear to have fallen for the Romney-bully story. Based on the evidence presented, it's a lie. Are you really buying it?
You're saying I'm "almost certainly not being objective"?
If that's the best they can find against Mittens, they're toast.
Now if we can only unseal all those thousands documents Øbama has sent millions on to court-seal...
Why is no one talking about this?
What is he hiding?
'The leader of the free world' and I can't learn what his GPA was? Really?
So, are you telling me that Romney and some other guys jumping ONE PERSON for not being a clone is an example of good character? Here's to that individualism that makes America great!
Being in a private prep school is much like being in the military. There are rules, regulations and a dress code. The military will allow the troops to discipline (to a certain degree) the odd cog or the non-conforming troop who is detrimental to the functioning of the group.
Same thing holds true for a sports team, small tribal societies or any other endeavor where the function of the group depends on group acceptance, performance and yes conformity.
This is life. I guess you missed out on it.
They both show a lack of character. You're seeing what you want to see.
Wow, for once I'm in total agreement with Crack. Being a "leader" is a value-neutral achievement. All of histories worst villains were tremendous leaders--what really matters is what you are leading.
Alec Rawls:
Nobody got beat up. A kid had his non-conforming hair cut. This was at a private school, which was allowed to enforce standards for such things.
Jeebus, you're actually defending that kind of douchebaggery? Are you the kind of guy who watches high school movies and cheers for the jock/bullies?
I find the whole thing totally irrelevant (just like when Hillary dug up Obama's grade school essays), but there's no reason to try to spin this thing into a positive for Romney. It was just a dumb thing he did when he was a kid.
This is life. I guess you missed out on it.
There's one difference in the other situations you cite versus being in a private school. Unless that school is a college, it is an institution someone ELSE choose for you.
I wouldn't have guessed, though, that you were in favor of forced conformity by use of extracurriculal means. Anything to hammer down dissent, heh? And is that the kind of mindset you want in the President, especially given the powers that Congress has recently given POTUS?
When I was a kid, I was a junior camper at a student government confab in, um, Minneapolis. Both Obama and Romney were there. Obama was a senior camp leader, and Romney was, um, a corporate sponsor. And Romney said the "n" word, and Obama declared himself a Muslim Marxist, and a fight ensued, but it ended in a draw when some big guys from the AFL-CIO team showed up.
When I was a kid, I was a junior camper at a student government confab in, um, Minneapolis. Both Obama and Romney were there. Obama was a senior camp leader, and Romney was, um, a corporate sponsor. And Romney said the "n" word, and Obama declared himself a Muslim Marxist, and a fight ensued, but it ended in a draw when some big guys from the AFL-CIO team showed up.
The sad thing is that this story is as well sourced as a Washington Post story. Sigh.
phx, I agree with your approach. As with the Trayvon Martin case, withholding judgement is a good course of action.
But there is some evidence. look here. After RatherGate and similar cases, I cannot assume benevolent stupidity or objectivity on the part of the mainstream press anymore. This is probably a lie of a story.
it is an institution someone ELSE choose for you.
True. And you have to wonder why his parents chose it for him. As a adult you have the ability to chose to not be in the military or that type of environment.
In a corporate situation, like the one that, voluntarily, I worked in for years, there are also certain rules and procedures that are 'required' if you want to be successful. I played the game for a while, but didn't like it much. That is why I CHOSE to have my own practice. That didn't mean that I was unfettered and could do what I wanted.
I am merely pointing out that the circumstances of Romney's high school were much different than those that most of us experienced in the 1960's. In fact our 1960's experiences are also completely different than those of you who went to school in the 80's or 90's.
Whether Romney did or didn't cut some kid's hair, it needs to be put into context.
So what happened with Romney in regards to Richard Grenell?
Romney hired him for his foreign policy expertise.
Grenell was being pressured by the Gay Leftist mafia (or is that Leftist Gay mafia?) to use his position to push Gay Rights, rather than the job he was hired to do.
Unwilling to give in to the pressure, Grenell decided to resign. The Romney team tried to talk him out of it.
Same thing holds true for a sports team, small tribal societies or any other endeavor where the function of the group depends on group acceptance, performance and yes conformity.
Same thing held true in Maoist China, Soviet Russia, your average street gamg, that Mafia, etc.
Let's here it for enforced conformity! Three Cheers for whoever that idiot is running North Korea!
But if you say there is evidendce presented that makes it obviously a lie then it must be something I haven't seen yet (and that could be) or you're being delusional. Which is it? What's the evidence that makes this story obviously a lie?
The WaPo story as written was untrue, because, when ABC went back and checked with one of the sources for the WaPo story, he said that he didn't know about the incident until WaPo told him about it, even though WaPo's story originally claimed that he had been troubled by it for a long time, and now claims that he knew about it before WaPo contacted him. ABC and WaPo cannot both be reporting accurately.
If ABC's reporting is correct, then WaPo has manufactured a supporting witness by telling him what allegedly happened and then quoting him about how bad that was. And that throws the credibility of WaPo's reporting as a whole, into serious doubt.
That said, no witness has stated affirmatively that it didn't happen (kind of hard to prove a negative after all). It's just that right now, there may not be much credible evidence that it did, depending on how you weigh ABC's credibility vs. WaPo's credibility in this instance.
Where I come down personally is I think there's evidence that the WaPo reporter manufactured supporting testimony, but on balance, it's likely that the underlying incident did occur. Maybe "fake but accurate." (haha)
Who cares about the youthful peccadillos of either Barry or Mitt?
What counts is that Barry's a communist and Mitt ain't.
Everything else pales in comparison.
phx, let's put some money on it.
Really, this isn't that difficult. We all make judgements all the time based on our (sometimes weak) wisdom, our observations, etc.
You think this story is for real? I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for you.
Nathan Alexander,
So Bryan Fischer is part of the Gay Leftist mafia? Interesting.
Same thing held true in Maoist China, Soviet Russia, your average street gamg, that Mafia, etc
That's right. This is how human society works. In order to change what you don't like, you sometimes have to work within the system and deal with human species and anthropoid nature to conform to the group dynamic.
The Tea Party has figured this out and is working from the inside out. If you don't, and think that you are going to be the "lone wolf" or wave your magic wand to make everyone conform to YOUR non-conformity.....then you are just a bunch of Occupy Whatever morons pissing into the wind.
Even the nonconformist Hippies and now the OWS groups have their own rules, regulations and dress code.
It is what it is, and holding your breath until you turn blue or wishing it into the cornfield isn't going to change human nature.
WaPo updates: "Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this story reported that White “has long been bothered” by the Lauber incident. White later clarified in a subsequent interview that he has been disturbed by the incident since he learned of it several weeks ago from a former classmate, before being contacted by The Washington Post."
ABC News' reporting on White's statement: "White, in an interview with ABC News, said that he is “still debating” whether he will help the campaign, remarking, “It’s been a long time since we’ve been pals.” While the Post reports White as having “long been bothered” by the haircutting incident,” he told ABC News he was not present for the prank, in which Romney is said to have forcefully cut a student’s long hair and was not aware of it until this year when he was contacted by the Washington Post."
The WaPo can't even issue a correction correctly and continues to be wrong. This is why I'm convinced the story is fabrication or close to it. The only reason they have White is to have someone Romney has talked to recently in there (he, I believe, introduced Mitt and Anne), to give it a color of bipartisaness.
What other witness statements have they embellished?
Crack, you've cracked. This was fifty fucking years ago and is no reflection of the present day man, unless you can show me similar activity in the past 20 years of so.
BTW - are you going to change you blog from "The Macho Response" to "The Wimp Response."
Romney the bully hair cutter or Obama the President who palled around with a bomber who contemplated killing tens of millions of Americans who couldn't be re-educated in the camps after the sure to be revolution. Hmmmmm. Now who am I more comfortable with?
Of course, the idea that the Romster may have learned from his stupid phase and grown into a very good man (which, from all the OTHER anecdotes we've seen (amphibious rescue, search party for partner's missing daughter, etc.), he did - whether Crack approves of his Mormonism or not) is totally irrelevant to the Establishment Media as is the fact Dictator Zero is a narcisstic, petulant, sociopathic, lying small c communist.
PS Anent DBQ's comment, I've known several bullies and they were never contrite about anything they did. If Milton sincerely is (and I have no way of knowing), that's another good mark for him as far as I'm concerned.
The Democrats are ok with bullying women for sexual favors, but they draw the line at bullying gays. You've got to draw the line somewhere....We're primates and we live in hierarchical societies. It's at its nastiest in high school. I suppose the fat, the odd, and the effete catch the most crap, but we all get bullied, or, worse, find someone more marginal and weaker than ourselves to bully.....I don't think jocks were generally bullies, but when they were, they were far and away the most obnoxious. Romney doesn't look like that kind of bully.... Romney was a rich, good looking kid from a stable family. He didn't have to do a lot of evolving to stay on top of the food chain and could afford to be gracious.....By definition, all Presidents want to be alpha. With sufficient research I'm sure you can find a similar story in most President's histories. Maybe not Lincoln.
I'm debating on what name I will write in. I think Zaphod Beeblebrox.
You're not voting for worst dressed sentient being in the known universe.
Romney was 18 at the time he premeditatively formed a posse to commit the hair cutting assault on the classmate
So Bryan Fischer is part of the Gay Leftist mafia? Interesting.
That the Bryan Fischer may have also had a problem with it doesn't make him a part of the Gay Leftist mafia. Why would Grenell care about Fischer's viewpoint enough to resign over it?
But now that I've explained what happened, why don't you share with us the dishonest spin you were told to put on it from you Leftist Talking Point handler?
new york said...
Romney was 18 at the time he premeditatively formed a posse to commit the hair cutting assault on the classmate
Yes, and that's the reason insurance actuaries set 25 as the age young males' insurance starts to come down.
That's when the stupid starts to leave the body.
Nathan Alexander,
I’d say Fischer had a significant role in the problem.
According to Grenell, Eric Fehrnstrom, Romney’s longtime aide and strategist, told him being gay was not an issue.
So why didn’t Romney stand behind his man?
This is a worthy issue. The question is not "was Romney a bully in high school?" or "was Obama a dog-eater?"
The question is "are voters idiots?"
Dust Bunny Queen,
it is an institution someone ELSE choose for you.
True. And you have to wonder why his parents chose it for him. As a adult you have the ability to chose to not be in the military or that type of environment.
This goes back to Mormonism (as the answer to many Mitt Romney questions will - these guys are not big on "alternative" schools,...) and the control they hold over people's lives:
I was hired to produce some Mormon kids with a Rock band, which included dinner with the parents to discuss goals, and give them a sense of my abilities and character. They stressed the guy they'd had working with the boys, despite his past success in the industry, drank too much and they didn't expect much out of his efforts with their sons. All well-and-good.
But, once they saw me in action and discovered I could actually mold the boys into something profitable, the kids miraculously disappeared - each sent to a different part of the country or world so the possibility of their success would never reach fruition.
One kid was whisked as far away as South Africa in a matter of days.
Why?
Because, despite everything they said to me, Mormons have no interest in their children being anything but professionals - doctors, lawyers, executives - and the idea that I could turn their kids into professional MUSICIANS scared the dickens out of them, so they collectively organized a strategy for destroying their kid's dreams and implemented it.
This is how people in cults operate - together.
The parents treated me as an afterthought, and made me finally demand they pay me for wasting my time, and destroying my friendships with the boys (because, I'm sure, the parents said I had bailed on THEM). They did, eventually, but it got dicey there for a moment - and not until after they had another behind-the-scenes group discussion.
And if you don't think there's also a LOT of behind-the-scenes planning going on around Romney's election, right now, you really understand nothing about Mormonism or the ruthless nature of the organization.
You guys are just asking for it,...
Heaven forbid, Crack, that the Mormom parents didn't raise their kids to your expectations.
"Troubled"--that's a liberal dog whistle word. It means that nothing much happened here that you can actually blame anybody for. But the liberal speaker/writer got their panties in a twist about it--and would like you to think the worst about the person who "troubled" them.
"Divisive" is another such code word. Doesn't mean much, but it sounds so good.
And from there well it's an easy step to "hate filled" "bigot" "homophobe".
The price for deviation from liberal orthodoxy is high.
DBQ,
It is what it is, and holding your breath until you turn blue or wishing it into the cornfield isn't going to change human nature.
Ahhh, NOW you tell me. So all that talk about logic, and reason, and all the effort to become smart - wasted in the face of The Law Of The Jungle.
Thanks - but I still have a question you seem uniquely qualified to answer:
Why did I leave the ghetto again?
St. Augustine was quite a partier, rabble rouser and sexual libertine in his early adulthood. Somehow, he managed to overcome all that and become a saint.
The lefties, and Crack, want to condemn anyone they please for any transgression they can dig up or manufacture. No wonder our prisons are the most full of any country in history. No wonder forgivenness is considered a virtue. No wonder the left is barren of virtue.
So why didn’t Romney stand behind his man?
Who said he didn't?
Why did I leave the ghetto again?
Better question...why do these threads always have to be about you?
DADvocate,
Crack, you've cracked. This was fifty fucking years ago and is no reflection of the present day man, unless you can show me similar activity in the past 20 years of so.
I did - he's a Mormon - AKA still a dishonest bully with a gang behind him.
His campaign of relentless negative ads, alone, has been decried by every conservative he's faced - not only because they were effective, but because they were dishonest and unfair.
And, once again, the rest of you gave him a pass and called the victims whiners rather than sticking up for what's right.
Anytime someone wants to point out the difference between this election and Obama's, I'm all ears. Oh wait, I know:
will.i.am isn't rooting for Romney,...
I Callahan,
“Who said he didn't?”
Richard Grenell
These "news" articles are getting sadder and sadder by the day. I feel like I'm being tossed a very lame, uninteresting, irrelevant stick to go chase. Seriously... this is the best they have?
Can I be honest and say that I don't give a rat's ass if either one of them had a bullying incident in high school? Do we really need to explain how different adults are from high schoolers? OMG people!!!
The lefties, and Crack, want to condemn anyone they please for any transgression they can dig up or manufacture
In all fairness to Crack, he's given many examples in the past for you to question whether Romney is the right choice; this is just one of them. I disagree with him regarding his thing against Mormonism, but his other points about Romney are valid.
Personally, I couldn't care less about Romney supposedly bullying someone when he was 17 years old. I couldn't care less about Obama's grade school and high school supposed bullying either.
Everyone's missing the context. Note the narrative being formed here: the media is drawing the picture of some rich, silver-spoon-in-mouth out-of-touch guy who thinks he needs to run things. Watch for that recurring theme.
The question is whether Romney has the stones to stand up to the media. On this, he folded like a cheap suit, either because he's weak, or there's some truth to the allegations. Not looking too good for the home team thus far.
DADvocate,
Heaven forbid, Crack, that the Mormom parents didn't raise their kids to your expectations.
Then don't yank my chain, waste my time, lie about me (a black guy) to a bunch of impressionable white kids who I liked and who liked me, or make have to demand my fucking money.
What's wrong with you, Dad?
Drank too much Kool-Aid today?
Some of you guys have obviously slipped the bonds of reason. Like I said:
Welcome to Mass Delusion, U.S.A.,...
The question is whether Romney has the stones to stand up to the media. On this, he folded like a cheap suit, either because he's weak, or there's some truth to the allegations.
If you look at what Romney said, it seems like it's because (a) he doesn't know whether there's truth to the allegations or not because he doesn't remember (and you look like an idiot if you go in swinging with an aggressive defense and it turns out there's other evidence out there) and (b) based on his own recollection of his high school days, this incident might be fake, but there are probably other incidents that are true. So it's nearer the latter than the former, I think.
Crack - so you're a religious bigot, we'll just settle on that.
I guess I'm a child molester because I'm Catholic. And, what candidate hasn't decried his opponents ads about himself? Jeesh.
(If we can have gay marriage - there's a contradiction in terms - why not polygamy?
Crack: But what about the Osmonds? The Osmond Brothers and then Donny and Marie?
nibble, nibble...spit!
After bullying Coretta, young Barack went home to a meal of barbecued dog (tough) and then rewarded himself with a snoot full of blow.
Richard Grenell
I found this paragraph at the HuffPost:
But Grenell thinks the Romney campaign staffers could have and should have done more to quiet conservative leaders and that they lacked the willingness or ability to publicly confront or privately persuade those leaders, according to sources familiar with his thinking.
No actual quote from Grenell, just some second hand assumption that he had said that. I'm not finding any such quote anywhere.
Crack,
Can you name names? Not many people who could spirit children away to another continent.
In any event, I'd proffer the notion that, much like Blacks, Mormons have some variance in behavior.
DADvocate,
The lefties, and Crack, want to condemn anyone they please for any transgression they can dig up or manufacture. No wonder our prisons are the most full of any country in history.
You know, today, you need to open each post with "Idoit Takling" because you're seriously going for it:
Our prisons are full because, like the Mormons or any other cult, we have too many people who think freedom means never accepting the word "no." And, like the Mormons or any other cult, they don't care about facts, truth, or reason, but only about what they want. And, like the Mormons or any other cult, they'll only let getting caught stop them.
You know, much like you're behaving now.
It's a terrible, terrible cultural problem in this country,...
C'mon Crack. It's so ignorant and offensive to make those kinds of statements about Mormons! Now who is being a bully?
Or is it now okay to be just a bigot?
Crack MC just hates Mormons. We will leave it at that.
I Callahan,
According to Jennifer Rubin, a well-connected Romney supporter, there was no public statement of support for Grenell by the Romney campaign and no supportive social conservatives were enlisted to calm the waters.
Grenell, apparently convinced the campaign had undermined his authority on foreign policy because of the gay issue, decided to step down.
So again, why didn’t Romney display leadership and stand behind his man?
Seems like Romney was being a follower, as Ann suggested of Obama, and responded to the "howling mob."
Scott M,
Better question...why do these threads always have to be about you?
Because I'm more interesting than you are?
Just a guess.
Now, are and I really going to do this dance again?
And let me remind you, if the answer is yes, you started it.
Now hoist your legs in the air a flyyyyyyy away,...
To me, this whole story reeks of anachronism.
DBQ hit on an important aspect of this story regarding self enforcement of institutional rules.
My 60's west suburban Chicago public high school didn't have a school uniform, but they did have a dress code, including rules reagarding hair style and facial hair. I know such things may be nothing more than quaint today, but they were vigorously enforced.
Given the times in which this took place, and that this was a private(?) All-boys boarding school, I would be surprised if it didn't have a dress code as strict if not more so than mine.
So did anyone at wapo attempt to see such a code existed then? Because the incident sounds far more like vigilante code enforcement than gay bashing.
Given the ethos of that earlier time, I would have expected far more than a forced hair cutting on the part of boys who suspected that their victim was"queer"
This story reeks of looking at the mid sixties through 21st century glasses.
Balfegor, what if it's all BS? What if the allegation is garbage, and that's all the pundits needed?
I think this happened to Herman Cain. I have no proof. I think John Edwards got the opposite treatment, and I have proof. I think John Kerry also got the opposite treatment, and I have proof. George W. Bush got the garbage treatment, and I have proof.
This is difficult stuff. Where is the truth? I try to apply my wisdom and experience in evaluating the evidence. I doubt the Washington Post has a handle on it.
Thanks - but I still have a question you seem uniquely qualified to answer:
Why did I leave the ghetto again?
Just because it looks different and people play by "nicer" rules doesn't mean that human nature has changed. The dangers are just different and it takes different skills than those required in the ghetto. You play in the area where you have the skills to win, to survive or be happy.
As you might tell, I have a pretty jaded view of human kind (plus I have a really bad case of the flu right now and feel like dog puke) and really don't think that human nature, human personality types, or dynamics within the group changes much on a basic level from the ghetto, to Park Avenue.
Perhaps it my way to protect myself, but I am never surprised at the actions of my fellow man whether they are good (which they mostly are because most people are good and mean no harm),are stupid or are bad. I'm not always happy or approving. But ....not surprised.
So let me get this straight--our economy is in shambles, our debt is horrendus and we have Aghanistan, Syria, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the mid east to deal with--and the focus of attention is a 50 year old ill remembered hit piece to focus on.
We are the idiots here--unable to focus on the real time right now issues. We are some fucked up mother fuckers. (thats an old cavalry expression for fucked up mother fuckers)
kimsch,
Crack: But what about the Osmonds? The Osmond Brothers and then Donny and Marie?
I didn't say there were no Mormon artists (Gladys Knight of Gladys Knight and the Pips) but that they have a strong pre deposition against pursuing the field. Which is bizarre, considering they make the kids take an instrument.
My conversations with Mormon artists usually end with their demoralized statement, "Nothing can happen in Utah," which should tell you what we're in for as we give these yokels more power.
I feel like the black Kevin Bacon,..
And the Mormon Tabernacle Choir?
Geoff Matthews,
Crack,
Can you name names? Not many people who could spirit children away to another continent.
Nah, even on a stupid blog post that wouldn't be right, especially to the boys.
In any event, I'd proffer the notion that, much like Blacks, Mormons have some variance in behavior.
Oh yeah. I know Mormons I love, some I like, and others you'd better keep away from me because things could get ugly.
But the Mormon "church"? That's a whole other ball of wax, and don't suspect for a moment the nice folks wouldn't flip on a dime to protect it, right or wrong. It's a cult. Your or my idea of ethics doesn't come into it, any more than Scientology's or The Raelian's or The People's Temple's. It's all about what they can get away with, and they're on a very good run, right now.
To Infinity - And Beyond!
So just vote for Obama then, Crack. With your help (arguing in comment after comment that someone who's a Mormon is ipso facto unsuitable for the presidency, and condemning everything about Romney in that light), Obama can get that second "flexible" term-- and we won't have to suffer the terrible consequences of having a Mormon for POTUS.
We're going to get one or the other, Obama or Romney. So go Obama 2012: He's not a Mormon.
Unless did something horrific as a teenager that you are really sorry about, don't apologize. In fact. Don't apologize for anything unless you really mean it.
I’m of two minds about this. Romney probably did some things in high school that hurt someone’s feelings, because didn’t most people? All those stupid hormones. So he’s given a generic overall apology, while saying that he doesn’t think this incident happened (but leaving the apology there just in case he really forgot and it’s not all bs).
OTOH, I’d much rather he say ‘that’s nice, let’s talk about the economy’. Sometimes an apology is the quickest way to move on, though.
And, if the man is apologizing, then he did something worthy of it.
I think everyone in the entire world has done something worthy of apologizing, particularly in high school. That means absolutely nothing now. Did you learn? Did you move on? Are you a better person now than you used to be? These are the things that matter.
Crack, I’m really curious what precisely you expect people to do, voting wise, once you have eliminated all the candidates.
Nichole,
Crack MC just lives with Mormons.
FIFY.
And if you can prove anything I'm saying is wrong, or a lie, I'll gladly concede it. I don't hate Mormons but Mormonism - as I do any other belief system because they're all nutty.
Look, if you're happy with the prospect of a president from the planet Kolab, more power to you. But - if you think that's crazy talk - I'm saying you ain't seen nothing yet.
But you will.
Oh, baby, you will,...
If being an egotistical blowhard with marbled-in victimhood is interesting, you're tits, man.
Crack,
I was raised as one of those "yokels". I'm from Utah (which has a vibrant local music and arts scene). Downtown Salt Lake happens to be a very open-minded and liberal city.
Please tell me again, how bad Mormons and people from Utah are?
You seem to know all about ME and the culture of Utah and religion that I was raised in.
I'm feeling according to you, based on the fact that I was raised Mormon that I should pretty much be abused and shunned by the rest of society. Being that I'm from a "cult" and all...
GOOD LORD. Offended yes.
This kind of bigotry would not be tolerated if we were talking about Muslim would it?
Or please... just tell me just one thing about Muslims that you hate Crack.
Dust Bunny Queen,
Why did I leave the ghetto again?
Just because it looks different and people play by "nicer" rules doesn't mean that human nature has changed.
Looks different - true - but my wife was allowed to kill three people and get away with it, so it doesn't seem much "nicer" from where I sit.
I'd say it's the difference between enduring a lifetime of full-frontal assaults or Agatha Christy murder mysteries.
People end up dead, either way, but you get to see who's coming at you with the former,...
I'd say it's the difference between enduring a lifetime of full-frontal assaults or Agatha Christy murder mysteries.
People end up dead, either way, but you get to see who's coming at you with the former,
Now you have it.
I wish the MSM would get as worked up about Obama having bullied, pantsed, wedgied, and shoved the economy off a cliff, and then he gave it a terrible haircut.
Instead, we're discussing high school bullshit that never happened, Oprah-style.
Shit, it's like a Very Special Episode of Althouse, in which the Bully Learns An Important Lesson, the gay guy sings a treacly Morrissey song, the addict sells her Fallopian tubes, and a 6 year old suckles the hot English teacher, who is 1/64th Cherokee.
yashu,
So just vote for Obama then, Crack.
Nope, I'm not voting this year - the first time since I was 18 years old.
With your help (arguing in comment after comment that someone who's a Mormon is ipso facto unsuitable for the presidency, and condemning everything about Romney in that light), Obama can get that second "flexible" term-- and we won't have to suffer the terrible consequences of having a Mormon for POTUS.
Don't look at me. Talk to Ann. She was the one who was "rational" enough to put Obama in there, and is now so "cruelly neutral" that any pre-nomination statement about Romney's Mormonism was greeted with howls of "bigotry." Hey, I know when I'm outnumbered, and how mass delusion works. You guys want Romney? You're going to get Romney.
Just like with Obama (who I was supposed to be for simply because I'm black) I'll have absolutely nothing to do with electing a Mormon to power because I'm conservative.
I love my country too much.
We're going to get one or the other, Obama or Romney. So go Obama 2012: He's not a Mormon.
And I can't find a better example of the phrase "decline is a choice," than the one we have before us now,...
Crack: In the current, May 14, issue of The New Yorker there is a sympathetic profile of Clayton Christensen that is worth your attention. Christensen is a business thinker who introduced the notion of "disruptions" into corporate planning. What I found interesting and surprising (for a New Yorker article) was how Chrstensen integrated his religion (Mormonism) into his life and how that relgion made him a better man. Christensen was a Rhodes scholar who knew a lot of movers and shakers. Some of them ended up in jail, and most of them had divorces and sullen children. Christensen vowed to never miss dinner with his family or any of his kids' games on Saturdays. He had a successful career and a happy family. He credited his Mormon faith with giving him these values......I'm sure that there is much in the Mormon faith that can be consumed cultishly, but there is manifestly other parts of it that can be used constructively. In America, the cult of Mammon has attracted many followers and, if they are sufficiently draped in Armani, there's no one to say that they are fools.
"To me, this whole story reeks of anachronism."
Drop those last two words and you've got it right. Who knows if it happened, or if it did exactly what happened? What we *do* know is that the WaPo lied in order to make Romney look bad, inventing a "witness" to the (alleged) incident who turns out not to have been there at all, and was "troubled" about it for a few weeks, not a few decades.
It's like when NBC edited the Zimmerman audiotape. The fact that they falsified the tape to make him look bad doesn't automatically exonerate him, but it *does* convict NBC of being lying, agenda-mongering scumbags. So many of these incidents boil down to the fact that the MSM has completely abandoned principle and honesty.
Yeah Crack, too bad we didn't nominate Santorum or Newt.
Santorum totally would've beat Obama on this social issues distraction game.
And Newt totally would've beat him on the character assassination game.
Romney's a Mormon with financial expertise who wants to focus on fiscal and economic issues, and barely out of the primaries is edging O in the polls. What a terrible choice. Did I mention he's a Mormon? Planet Kolab!
FWIW, Frank Vandersloot, who was ID'd as a Romney donor on the Obama enemies list website KeepingGOPHonest (!), has had his records searched and falsely been called a gay basher by the Obama campaign, just on Cavuto.
So who's the real bully?
Now.
Crack, there's little difference between much of your condemnation of Mormons and Andy Hatman's ridicule of people who believe in a "sky-god."
Stupid American people, nominating and electing people for POTUS so deluded as to believe in a magical sky-god.
A magical sky god!
Crack,
Can you at least get the mocking correct? It isn't the planet Kolab, its the star Kolob.
Re: Crack:
You guys want Romney? You're going to get Romney.
As Mencken put it, "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
That said, I kind of like Romney.
I wonder if Obama's drug dealers did any bullying of clients who didn't pay up on time? Do you think they were as badass as Romney? Obama's coke dealings funded some big time bullying if his coke dealers were anything like those I have read about. Obama's money went to criminals who would kill to protect their turf. Fucking with Obama's coke dealers would have gotten more than your hair cut. Obama funded criminals with his youthful experimentation but shoot at least he was mean to a presumed homo.
Shanna,
Crack, I’m really curious what precisely you expect people to do, voting wise, once you have eliminated all the candidates.
Start over - we could. We don't have to settle for this. It's OUR country, not the Republican elites and their "inevitable" candidates. We have the power to vote "No Confidence" on this whole shebang but we lack the vision, the confidence, and the wherewithal to do it.
I see us as having taken the lunacy to it's inevitable conclusion, so all that's left is this leap off the cliff of reason. We're going to have a president from the planet Kolab. Naturally. What other possible result, after Oprah's candidate, could we possibly have? Somebody reasonably normal? NO WAY! Who am I kidding?
We've gone from the Democratic Party's candidate, whose top backer was last seen selling "The Secret" before she introduced him, to a Republican with a full-blown cult behind him - and a base so desperate for a win, no matter the consequences, they'll condemn anyone who dares point it out.
It's already a farce. The lies are stinking up the joint, these laughable issues (such as they are - dog eating?) are merely the result of the deliberate closing off of reality, and mass delusion is already in full-force to maintain the charade as long as possible. Nothing good can come of this.
I told you the economy is NEVER the only issue for a country - that was the first lie/delusion we got sucked into. Rick Santorum tried to tell you. Newt Gingrich tried to tell you, too. You shot the messenger.
I also told you, repeatedly, the economy was going to improve anyway - that was inevitable - but whether we would was not. And we haven't. After the cult of personality election of Obama, we haven't learned a god damned thing. We just passed the baton from Left to Right and then raised the stakes. Hooray!
The only things I can't tell you is what will come apart first, and if it'll happen before or after the election, but I know - with these two candidates - we're already fucked. And I'm not concerned about the economy at all. As it has been, when it unravels, it'll be because we chose bad leaders - not because anything dramatic (beyond all we've discussed: cutting programs, etc.) needed to be done. This is going to happen like O.J.'s career:
We knew everything ahead of time, yet it'll seem like it's completely out of the blue,...
Scott M,
If being an egotistical blowhard with marbled-in victimhood is interesting, you're tits, man.
You just can't stop yourself, can you? You're a poor, pitiful man.
Hey - anybody - direct a question to ScottM, so he can feel important, will you?
I'll go warm up a bottle of milk,...
yashu said...
Crack, there's little difference between much of your condemnation of Mormons and Andy Hatman's ridicule of people who believe in a "sky-god."
Thank you, yashu
Crack, there's little difference between much of your condemnation of Mormons and Andy Hatman's ridicule of people who believe in a "sky-god."
Crom laughs at your sky-god. Laughs from his mountain!
I don't think Crack is going to change his stance on Mormons so we're just going to have to let him rant.
Fine, you believe what you believe, Crack.
I for one am enthusiastically rooting for Romney to beat Obama, and think he has the potential to be a very good POTUS, especially given the issues our country is facing at this time. In any case, he will be immeasurably better than Obama.
It's OUR country, yes. And "we" includes all the voters who voted for Romney in the GOP primaries. Damn that democracy.
For those interested, here's more on the Vandersloot story.
And the Lefties may want to see what real bullying looks like because it looks like the WaPo is issuing an "explanation" of the bullying story.
@balfegor: Perfectly cromulent.
@Gary - *Sigh* I think you are right. No changing Crack MCizzles mind. I'm not a practicing Mo... but I swear some of us/them are pretty damn cool and not evil.
I'm voting for the POTUS that believes in some form of sky-goddery and accusedly was the school bully all of us nerdy girls were secretly hot for.
What's the worst thing that could happen. We all end up swathed in Armani?
Leftists have been bullying the right for 12 years. They've bullied Sarah Palin far beyond I thought anyone in the USA had the capacity to do. And THEY call ROMNEY a bully? Utter hypocrites all.
Nichole,
Crack, I was raised as one of those "yokels". I'm from Utah (which has a vibrant local music and arts scene). Downtown Salt Lake happens to be a very open-minded and liberal city.
Oh yeah - there's tons of tattooed lemmings and "organic" nonsense here - I get out. And read the Salt Lake Weekly, with it's denunciations of everything that could make the city great, it's aping of any and every liberal attraction you can find elsewhere (A Twighlight Series is coming to town!) and it's countless investigations into Mormonism's dark underbelly. Let's see, what's the big story in the Salt Lake Tribune? Why look - another religious leader has raped a 15 year old girl. (For those of you outside these gorgeous mountains, these types of thing - along with an abundance of fraud cases - are a common occurrence in Mormon country,…)
Please tell me again, how bad Mormons and people from Utah are? You seem to know all about ME and the culture of Utah and religion that I was raised in.
Let me put it this way: After three years straight of Salt Lake - while driving into Austin, Texas - I started laughing giddily. There were businesses that weren't all the same. There was tons of greenery everywhere - not just in the canyons - and the canyons weren't the only place it was allowed to run wild, either. There were black people, Mexicans, and everybody else, too. There was a real music scene, with enough bands to fill up fully half of the local paper, I later discovered. The design of the place wasn't merely functional, so I could tell the difference between a nice restaurant and an auto repair shop.
Ah, it was,…amazing.
I'm feeling according to you, based on the fact that I was raised Mormon that I should pretty much be abused and shunned by the rest of society. Being that I'm from a "cult" and all…
You'd be wrong. Let's not start off with assumptions, O.K.? If you want to know something, ask, don't guess. I'll do the same.
GOOD LORD. Offended yes.
Your problem. Be an adult and remember not everyone agrees with you, your cult, or me for that matter. I'm not offended, but then my leader didn't find his religion on some plates hidden in the ground in New York. Big difference.
This kind of bigotry would not be tolerated if we were talking about Muslim would it?
No, I pretty much make them do the insane bug-eyed routine, too. It's a common trait of cultists and lunatics. Get to the hospital if your mouth starts to foam.
Or please... just tell me just one thing about Muslims that you hate Crack.
They're Muslims.
What I like is how fun they are to throw out of the house:
The bug-eyed thing again,...
accusedly was the school bully all of us nerdy girls were secretly hot for
Heh, on that note, maybe the popularity of that "50 Shades of Grey" book bodes well for Romney.
Re leadership, last month neoneocon (here) noted this bit from a NYT article on Romney's years at Harvard Business School:
Mr. Romney recruited a murderers’ row of some of the most distinguished students in the class. “He and I said, hey, let’s handpick some superstars,” said Howard Serkin, a classmate…
Mr. Romney served as a kind of team captain, the other members said, pushing and motivating the others.
“He wanted to make straight A’s,” Mr. Serkin said. “He wanted our study group to be No. 1.” Sometimes Mr. Romney arrived early to run his numbers a few extra times. And if his partners were not prepared, “he was not afraid of saying: ‘You’re letting us down. We want to be the best,’ ” Mr. Serkin added…
Mr. Romney was in his element. His class performances were outstanding; his peers described him as precise, convincing and charismatic. He won the high grades he craved…If Mr. Romney melded with the school intellectually, he kept some distance from it socially. He was married and a parent. In the liberal precincts of Cambridge, he and his wife, Ann Romney — pictured wearing matching sweaters at a fall 1973 business school clambake, with their two sons on their laps — seemed like they were from “out on the prairies,” Mr. Brownstein said.
The future governor abstained from things many other students were doing: drinking coffee or alcohol, swearing, smoking…
What a bully! NB "murderers' row," heh. Here's hoping Romney recruits a "murderers' row" for his administration-- and is just as effective and exacting a leader/ bully with them.
William,
I'm sure that there is much in the Mormon faith that can be consumed cultishly, but there is manifestly other parts of it that can be used constructively.
If you follow cults, as I do, you'll find most sites devoted to the subject will admit not everyone involved gets hurt, that some prosper, and even find some good in them. It's a very complex subject, with as many outcomes as there are followers.
But, But, But - BUT - does that excuse the harm they do to others? Those who get exploited, who are driven insane, are trapped - in their own minds, which is what cultism is all about - or even killed? Who are their champions? The New Yorker did a fine article on director Paul Haggis's escape from Scientology, but, considering the level of abuse I'm talking about, must we really have to be an Academy Award winner to get that kind of attention?
Behind the Mormon facade are countless cases like The 5 Browns, which are kept hush-hush as the rest of you admire that wholesome image you buy without question. It's the same with all of them. They claim something they're never selling, like with San Francisco's cult restaurant, "Cafe' Gratitude," as they quietly go about their dirty work. And always with the support of politicians, who of course, look to them for support. The whole ugly scene is so cozy few ever suspect a thing until it all explodes into daylight, in some unusual manner, like the murder of a journalist investigating a bakery. Then the effort becomes to either clear the cult (so it can all resume) or trying to catch the rats as they escape the sinking ship - which rarely works because, as you can see by the responses on this thread, nobody gives a damn about anything but what they want.
In this case, that's someone to beat Obama.
Anyway, I'm quite aware of the cult world, William. My question to you:
How many articles about it's dark side have you found?
----They both show a lack of character.
You both fall for the squirrel. It was either 50 years ago or 30 years ago.
The story is the media serving up another crap sandwich from Team Obama and the liberals eating it up. And why? Because our economy is sucktatistic and Obama owns it. And as hard as you try, its going to be about the economy, just like Carville said.
Its the economy stupid.
Yes Crack, and the Catholic Church covered up pedophilia in its ranks.
Obviously that disqualifies Santorum and Newt from the presidency.
But I'm not going to continue arguing with you over the Romney = Mormon = unfit for POTUS thing. Gary Rosen's right that it's futile-- neither one of us is going to persuade the other, so I'll just leave it at that.
I'd forgotten about Obama flipping the bird at Hillary. Hmmm, that's within this decade and reflects the Democratic war on women.
And Obama's economy has been a war on women.
After more than three years of the President’s failed economic policies and nearly a million more unemployed women workers, women voters – like all Americans – realize we can’t afford four more years of President Obama.” –Amanda Henneberg, Romney Campaign Spokesperson
This is the classic Obama MO. He has never had much substance to run on, so along with the "hope 'n change" fluff he tries to shiv his opponent. Like when he ran for the Senate in IL, his operatives uncovered a divorce scandal that forced out a strong Repub candidate who was replaced by Alan Keyes, easily stomped by BO.
The problem here is that Romney, whatever else you may think of him and his politics, is a decent, square-jawed family guy. So we are left with "He cut off a guy's hair in HS!" and "He put a dog on the roof of his car!". Laughable except that the MSM is working for the BO campaign lock, stock and barrel.
To the Romney detractors, how about a little balanced view of Romney? Read some of the very nice things he has done over the years, and square that with the "bully" image you have of him.
These stories of Mitt's nice side were revealed by Boston Globe reporters, hardly rightwing shills:
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/romney-mr-nice-guy/537521
yashu,
Yeah Crack, too bad we didn't nominate Santorum or Newt.
Now you're making assumptions about my meaning - never a good idea. I said they warned you, not that they were the answer.
Santorum totally would've beat Obama on this social issues distraction game.
If you don't think social issues are important, you have no idea how the economy got this fucked up. Or do you think mindlessly overspending as wildly as we have is just a product of economics?
And Newt totally would've beat him on the character assassination game.
Another assumption (can we PLEASE not be stupid?) You must be new around here. I'll let others tell you how unceremoniously I dumped him.
Romney's a Mormon with financial expertise who wants to focus on fiscal and economic issues, and barely out of the primaries is edging O in the polls. What a terrible choice. Did I mention he's a Mormon? Planet Kolab!
So, if you owned a struggling business and a guy applying for the job announced God is a 6 ft. man from the planet Kolab and said Jesus was going to rule from Missouri, you'd be like "OMG, I've found the perfect candidate to turn this place around"?
Suuuurrrrre.
But it's good enough for the chief executive of the United States.
At least with your vote, he'll know he's not alone in such gullibility,...
yashu,
Crack, there's little difference between much of your condemnation of Mormons and Andy Hatman's ridicule of people who believe in a "sky-god."
But there's a HUGE difference between believing in shit from 2,000 years ago, that few can prove false, and some bullshit from a repeatedly convicted conman that anyone can debunk in minutes on Google.
Try harder, yashu, you're boring me,...
Gary Rosen,
I don't think Crack is going to change his stance on Mormons so we're just going to have to let him rant.
Oh yeah - it's my position that's the problem. You guys being just as adamant/bullheaded is fine, but my arguing - for reason - is what's crazy.
What are you arguing for, again? Oh yeah, allowing madness to reign. Gotcha. That's been doing a bang-up job so far.
I told you - cultism is a mental trap - and that's exactly how it "works"...
That's OK, Crack, I'm bored with this conversation too. We disagree and that's that.
yashu,
Fine, you believe what you believe, Crack.
Bullshit. This is precisely the problem:
You guys are the ones with the beliefs. Let anybody say they believe anything and you're A.O.K. with it. Politicians, preachers, whoever - we're surrounded by beliefs.
But facts? You never heard of 'em. You don't want to hear them. Ask Mitt Romney where Kolob is and watch the freak out begin. Ask him how many times Joseph Smith was arrested for being a conman, and why - if that's a fact - he would follow his "teachings". And the rest of you will defend him, rather than admit he's a fruitcake.
Again, you can spin it any way you want, but you're the problem.
That's how we've gotten the leadership that's buried us already, and repeating what hasn't worked is no solution. As the kids used to say:
"Duh."
Unknown,
I'd forgotten about Obama flipping the bird at Hillary. Hmmm, that's within this decade and reflects the Democratic war on women.
This is what I find fascinating about this argument over Romney:
How people will overlook anything for their ambitions.
Obama's flipping the bird (he did it to McCain too) should've made him instantly disqualified - it has to be the crassest thing to ever occur in a presidential election - but people were willing to overlook it, or snicker to themselves at how "clever" they were while denying it happened, anything to get him into office.
And now they're doing it for Romney.
Remember, while these idiots are condemning me and trying to get me to love a cult, my mantra has stayed the same - VET THE MAN.
It's not an unusual request. It doesn't mean he won't be president. It doesn't hurt his cult. It will make him a better candidate.
But no - they want to play games and overlook the man's obvious flaws - just as they did for Obama.
I can't force people to learn, man,...
So is this story emanating a cloaked stupid ray that zaps nearly everyone who reads it. (I'm immune to the ray, or course.)
Anybody got anything new?
Here's a try. The story will hurt Obama because (1) everyone knows it comes from his campaign and (2) because it happened 47 years ago the Obama people look petty and desperate.
Oh, that's not a new take on it either?
Well, I tried.
Oh, I don't know, David. Maybe we could have a sugar-free kool-aid summit on the White House lawn against bullying?
Crack,
Romney's been vetted pretty well.
But the thing is, thorough vetting is really only vital someone who is going to be acting with unlimited power and minimal observation.
Romney is Mormon, but his cabinet won't be. Most of his advisors won't be. The Supreme Court won't get 5 new Mormon members on his watch, probably won't even get 1. Congress won't suddenly become Mormon.
The Tea Party is still ascending, and there is no real Mormon/cult way to fix the economy, there is only the fiscal conservative way. I don't think he'd get away with anything but the fiscal conservative way (cut spending, cut regulations, cut taxes).
And the press will be watching him like a hawk.
Compare that to Obama. The problem with him not getting vetted was that he was led to believe (correctly, as it turned out) that he would get full support from the Democrat-led Congress, full rhetorical support from his Ozombies, and top-cover from the media to do things like cover up racism w/ the Attorney General, refuse to enforce any laws he didn't want to, add signing statements to laws he didn't like, promulgate rules through his unelected bureaucracy that he couldn't get passed in Congress.
Do you think Romney will be able to do 1/100th of that in pursuit of some cultish goal?
No freaking way.
Yes Crack, and the Catholic Church covered up pedophilia in its ranks.
Not exactly. The Catholic Church covered up a gay recruitment scandal among its gay priesthood (that used being a priest to cover up never wanting a heterosexual relationship, in deliberate violation of vows of chastity).
Nearly all the abused kids were pubescent or barely post-pubescent. Pedophilia is a term for sex with clearly pre-pubescent children. Pedophilia places an emphasis on the extreme young age, and the relative lack of gender markers. As such, a pedophilia scandal would have a significant number of females as victims, as well.
But a gay recruitment scandal by deceptive gays using the Catholic Church as cover wouldn't fit the narrative.
Nathan,
I don't know about the numbers, but I know that at least some of the sex abuse cases covered up by the Church (and which it facilitated, by transferring priests to new parishes when scandal broke) involved cases of pedophilia involving both boys and girls. Cf. the despicable Oliver O'Grady, subject of the documentary Deliver Us From Evil.
I don't consider this an indictment of Catholicism per se, and certainly not of Catholics. The Church like any other institution consists of flawed and sometimes despicable human beings. And at times that organization, conducted by humans, gets really rotten in certain areas. The Reformation happened for a reason. Anyway, my point was not to denounce the Catholic Church but to put Crack's denunciation of the Mormon Church in perspective.
Excellent response and sharp point by you @8:18.
Nathan Alexander said...
"Nearly all the abused kids were pubescent or barely post-pubescent."
What age do you define post-pubescent and what source are you using to state that nearly all the children abused in the Catholic Church were over that age?
I think this incident happened, and I find it extremely unlikely that Romney has forgotten all about it.
But, honestly, are we going to be going through candidates' high school records now?
I would think that the age that any child enters puberty varies, person to person.
I don't know what age any of the victims were, but I don't think they were small children. Getting the growing on, but not big enough to pound the asshole into the dirt.
Nathan Alexander,
Crack, Romney's been vetted pretty well.
When? How? By who? What are the really tough questions he's faced? The only standards you can claim he's been vetted by are those Obama faced, and they were practically non-existent. If not, then why are we finding out so much now, four years after his election? Even the Washington Post admitted, after Obama won the election, they went soft on the guy and the Los Angeles Times put out a blanket memo that no reporter was to write about John Edwards - a policy every major news outlet followed, without a peep from the electorate, despite howls from people like me. Now, of course, I read people on Althouse talking about how the election would've been different if reporters had done their jobs.
Or, as I say, if the electorate also had done theirs as well.
Look at what's happening now:
These yahoos are so hung up on dog eating, or (cultishly) trying to make me like a cult, or waiting for some reporter to do something, they feel no obligation to be citizens themselves and dig into anything. Nope, if the NYT doesn't report it, they're fine with whatever they get.
Well, they're going to get it alright.
Cont'd,....
Do you think Romney will be able to do 1/100th of that in pursuit of some cultish goal? No freaking way.
All of you misinterpret what I'm saying. (I sincerely wish you would ask questions instead of making assumptions because, since most of you "believe" in one screwy thing or another - and I don't - trying to say what I think will fail you every time.)
I have never said Romney will get into office and attempt to turn this into a Mormon nation. I never said he will attempt to brainwash us. As a matter of fact, I'd put money on the proposition he'll do everything in his power to not embarrass the church, or bring disrespect upon it. That's not the issue. The issues are two-fold:
1) He's not being honest with us and, by extension, allowing us not to be honest with ourselves. This is the same phenomena you described as happening with Obama ("The problem with him not getting vetted was that he was led to believe (correctly, as it turned out)…") just as it's happening on this thread. People are willingly suspending disbelief for their supposed larger goal, leaving us vulnerable to everything they deliberately don't want to know. Trying to get me to love his cult is not holding his feet to the fire but - this is going to shock some people - I'M NOT GOING TO BE THE ONE IN POWER.
Mitt Romney is a POLITICIAN. I don't care what party he represents, he deserves to be grilled - to feel OUR power - so he knows what he faces if he screws up. We aren't doing that. We're kissing his ass, ready to attack any reporter who goes after him, thinking he's "our guy." He's not - we don't love him - and he hasn't earned it in any way, shape, or form. He's a barely conservative notorious flip-flopper, who we know will say anything to attain power, hiding as much as possible to reach his goal.
I'm not saying keep it from him. I'm saying do it right. He is a Mormon.
2) Romney's cult is independent of him and will act accordingly, just as Scientology is of Tom Cruise and John Travolta's careers. But if you don't think their careers aren't important to the goals of the church, you know nothing about how cults work - and having a president in office means a lot more credibility and power for Mormonism, an entirely fake, bogus, deceptive con job. And, by electing Romney, we will already be doing their bidding.
We are anyway, by staying ignorant of who they are, what they believe, and are up to already.
Mormonism's credibility as America's "fastest growing religion" is built on a lie - they add you whether you want to be or not. Hell, as far as I know, merely moving to Utah made me a member - they were calling me at work two days after I got here. (I ask you, is that normal? Did any "church" immediately contact you, at work, after you arrived wherever you live, asking to pay a visit? Do you want to encourage this? You will be,…) By giving these guys credibility you will be supporting a delusional, intrusive, and exclusive group that rejects common sense and doesn't react well to challenge. None of this is good.
As I said, behind the wholesome facade is a pushy, ignorant, backwards belief system that quietly causes many people a whole mess of problems. Like all cults, you should investigate it rather than blindly accepting their version of what they say.
Or before you help them reach their goals.
I'd say start here,…Ex-Mormons.Org
Crack should've play the tenor sax on that Junior Walker and the All Stars' song "What Does It Take, To Win Your Love For Me".
If he had, we could've said to Crack...
"Blow it again, honey!"
Ha ha
Honestly, I love it when Crack blows that horn of his.
Just wish he would take off his cult umbrella hat.
Not gonna melt in the rain, sweetie. And a dose of sunshine might do wonders for you too.
Penny,
I don't know what all that means but it's kind of hard to take off my "cult umbrella hat" when my (liberal) roommate - a newscaster - comes home, just now, and tells me about his latest discovery of some more kids being abused at a Mormon school. This is the church our next president can't tear himself away from (any more than Obama could with Rev. Wright's I imagine) and the reason Steve Jobs is dead. I just don't get it:
Considering all the evil cult stuff going on right under your noses, I have to wonder, are the rest of you blind or deliberately looking away?
Say what you wll, Crack takes on all comers.....I read the article about the business theorist, Clayton Christensen. Christensen describes how smaller companies operating at the low end of the market are sometimes able to take over entire industries. One of the examples given was Sony. Sony, at the beginning, produced a cheap transistor radio that was used only by teen agers. From this beginning they were able to go on and capture the radio, stereo, and TV market. They did it by increments. It's apparently easier to make a cheap product better than it is to make a good product cheaper. At any rate, starting from the very bottom, they moved up the chain and captured all the niches......When I read the article I couldn't help but think of its analogy to religion. It's the "cheap" religions with cultist overtones that are experiencing growth. There's nothing in the Episcopalian faith to cause anyone alarm, but the problem with that faith is that no one actually believes in it. It's fine to have a preacher to officiate at a same sex marriage, but no one actually shows up on Sunday. The Evangelicals and the Mormons (and, sadly, the Muslims) have many fantastical beliefs, but, for all that, they have a growing number of believers......Romney has strong religious beliefs not despite the irrationality of his faith but because of it. The upscale religions give lots of balanced opinions on God and morals, but the downmarket ones offer the sexiest heavens.... From what I can see, Romney has led a decent, productive life, and his faith has been a help not a hindrance in the achievement of his goals. With all the scumbags and charlatans that populate politics and religion, I see no need to pick on Romney.
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा