১০ ডিসেম্বর, ২০১১
"Be for Romney: He's the Republican Clinton!"
A slogan, invented by me, in the course of a conversation with Meade, in which we were both speaking well of Romney and Bill Clinton.
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Somebody alert Romney's wife.
Fore!
Can we have a whole thread of people whining about how they don't like Romney but are too dumb to realize that the adults won't let their preferred joke candidate be the nominee?
WTF? I don't see any resemblance. Look at the men's lives and records personal, and professional.
Although only a year younger, Romney looks a lot better. Hell, he looks good for 64 compared to anybody.
"Fore!"
Don't know what made me write "fore." We've had enough golf with Obama.
Clinton golfed.
I don't associate Romney with any sport.
@Andy Exactly.
"WTF? I don't see any resemblance. Look at the men's lives and records personal, and professional."
In our conversation, we said he could be like Clinton but without the sexual problems.
We were remembering the good times under Clinton, not the bad. We liked his centrism and would appreciate the extremists on both sides of the spectrum giving it a rest for a few years, while a competent, experienced person presided over what would hopefully be economic prosperity.
Wait, "exactly" like you agree with me? Because that seems like a kind of mean thing for you to say about all the rubes that comment here?
Clinton is a big believer in big govt solutions to everything. But he was foiled by Congress from trying all his big govt solutions.
I am wary of Romney because I suspect he thinks he is so smart that he can devise big govt solutions to everything.
That said, anyone would be an improvement over Prez Obama.
Romney got a good endorsement in the Professor. Things may swing back his way.
ABO is the only rule that matters.
Clinton is a big believer in big govt solutions to everything.
As is Romney, and Gingrich as well.
Andy R -- Maybe she was mocking you; review your original post.
Don't know what made me write "fore." We've had enough golf with Obama.
"'Fore' More Years?" is Romney's current fundraising slogan.
1584 Holes Since 2009. It's time to have a president whose idea of being "hands on" doesn't mean getting a better grip on the golf club.
Don't know what made me write "fore." We've had enough golf with Obama.
Ha!
I was wracking my brain, trying to see the pun. Clinton and golf go together, but Romney would have to go with the Winter Olympics.
Imagine a president who spends his Sundays doing a pentathlon.
I don't think the analogy goes very far. Many on the right (as evidenced by comments here and elsewhere) see Romney as a technocrat with no guiding principles. I think the left (represented, e.g. by Joe Klein in Primary Colors) saw Clinton as someone whose heart was on the left, but was willing to lie and make compromises to obtain power. Since the primary goal of the left is power, they saw this as a good thing.
I guess in the sense that they are both technocrat wonks you can make the case. Another way that they could end up having similar administrations would be if the Ryan Tea Party took over the House from the Repubs the way the Gingrich Repubs took the house over from the Dems.
What!! You want Clinton (like) back?! Your candidate Romney has to get past your erstwhile candidate Obama first and so far Romney is like a ballerina skirting around that donkey.
many putative democrats seem to consider Romney a moderate, notwithstanding his love of BushCo, his draconian immigration plan, his pro-capitalist at any cost views, etc. He's not a Clinton. He's Nixon
I don't understand the Romney hate. If Romney were nothing but a flip-flopper, he would have abandoned his religion as a political liability long ago. I see Romney as a pragmatist. Newt would be another flame-throwing ideologue who would only further inflame the culture wars instead of moving the country toward an economic recovery. Even if you like his style and his political position, you've got to face the fact that Gingrich would be a temperamental, thin-skinned, oversensitive president. We've already got one of those.
If there's a breath of scandal concerning Milton, be it sexual, political, or financial, it hasn't surfaced yet.
Ann Althouse said...
@Andy Exactly.
Is this Ann's "How Romney lost me"?
Andy R. said...
Can we have a whole thread of people whining about how they don't like Romney but are too dumb to realize that the adults won't let their preferred joke candidate be the nominee?
Plenty of adults like people like Newt, Perry, Bachmann, Barbour, or Miss Sarah, and some like Mrs Bachmann and even Ron Paul and they liked Herman (many still do).
The rubes are the ones who participated in the Occupation (Hatman is still suffering from its effects).
The rubes are the ones who bought Hopenchange (and, sadly, still buy it) and went for the ultimate joke candidate 3 years ago and still support him today.
The adults are the ones who want him out and don't want Willie III to replace him.
"experienced person presided over what would hopefully be economic prosperity."
So you gave up on the change, but still got that hope thing going.
It's gonna take more than that to fix where we are. I don't think some people realize how structural our problems are. We need reform - not stewardship.
Clinton could do the stewardship thing, but only because the nation was riding waves of new technology and markets at the time, which lulled us into more debilitating structure that we can't support when things returned to normal.
I'm not saying Romney can't do the reform, but he will need more fortitude than he's demonstrated in the past. He can't just change positions when he meets some resistance.
Things will get worse if our current government is just competently maintained, which would be in itself incompetent.
This happens all the time in failing companies, where the last of the loser management teams does too little too late. At least Romney has an understanding of such things, but he will still need the conviction to act on it.
Wow, Romney is 64?! He looks like a very healthy 50 something.
Comparing him to Clinton would attract who exactly? Wavering Dems? Perhaps. But it would more than likely repel all those independents who've had their fill of statist non-solutions to what's ailing us.
If on the board of a failing Apple, a lot of moderates would never hire a Steve Jobs.
I want the U.S. to be an Apple.
Disclaimer: I own no Apple products at all, but have to respect what they did.
Maybe the Osmonds can do the musick at the Romneyoid Inauguration par-tay (with boo-coo de-caf Pepsi and flower girrls for the Angel Moroni, but absolutely no booze or smokes, ). Yummy in the tummy
I think Romney is like Clinton except, hopefully for the sexual scandals.
And Gingrich is even more big govt conservative than Romney ever could be. That's his whole schtick.
On top of that he's like Clinton with the sexual baggage, but without the charisma.
Seriously conservatives. Why are you holding hands with that jerk? You know he's going to screw you and then pull a Barney Stinson on you.
George Romney resembles Bill Clinton loke Ned Nestor resembles Elmer gantry.
If Gingrich starts racking up primary wins, I'm not sure what the GOP elite can do about it, other than start screaming that Gingrich is unelectable. They are already doing that, but so far, it has been ineffective.
Bago said:
"Things will get worse if our current government is just competently maintained, which would be in itself incompetent.
This happens all the time in failing companies, where the last of the loser management teams does too little too late. At least Romney has an understanding of such things, but he will still need the conviction to act on it."
Bago nails it. Our national boat is irreparable and so we need to devise a better way of getting there.
Elmer Gantry married to Lady Macbeth!
Clinton nostalgia is repulsive. The man is a rapist.
"Seriously conservatives. Why are you holding hands with that jerk? You know he's going to screw you and then pull a Barney Stinson on you."
Conservatives don't watch How I Met Your Mother; you need to frame this in the Larry the Cable Guy terms we can relate to.
Andy R. and Prof. Althouse: that you support Romney is fine. IIRC, Prof. Althouse supported (or at least voted for) Obama.
Everyone is entitled to make mistakes.
But to suggest (and agree with) that anyone but Romney in the GOP race is a "Joke Candidate" is more than over the top. Its just inaccurate to call them "joke candidates".
Andy R. and Prof. Althouse: that you support Romney is fine. IIRC, Prof. Althouse supported (or at least voted for) Obama.
Everyone is entitled to make mistakes.
But to suggest (and agree with) that anyone but Romney in the GOP race is a "Joke Candidate" is more than over the top. Its just inaccurate to call them "joke candidates".
The Professor is a native of Bloomietown, and every so often it shows.
Wv: Methness - suggesting that the Republican Party present any candidate to their base as "the Republican Clinton!"
Hagar, I don't think "native" means what you think it means.
Never heard of any place in Delaware referred to as "Bloomietown" before. New one on me.
The history of the LDS clearly demonstrates the Mormons' connection to freemasonry (ie, Joseph Smith doing masonic chants as he was killed). Is Romney a member of a secret society (not to say heretical church)? Members of secret societies are banned from many public offices. Including PotUS. Ergo, MR's unfit for public office. JQ Adams suggested as much.
IIRC, the professor was conceived in Texas born and raised in Delaware and, later and more briefly, in New Jersey.
Can't believe the Iowa Caucuses are just a speck over three weeks away. Lots to consider.
So, totally wrong again - I was under the impression she was born and raised in New York - perhaps it was that picture.
However, extended stays in Delaware (Joe Biden's home state as an adult) and New Jersey across the river, would surely also have their effects.
Delaware was also the state of Bill Roth, the other half of Kemp-, a core piece of Reagan's economic policies.
Fun fact! Biden's family moved to Delaware a year or so after Althouse was born, when he was 10.
and of Christine O'Donnel.
Yeah, but she really is NOT of Delaware. Didn't even move there until 2003, when she relocated for a job (nothing wrong with that!). She's Philly/Moorestown, NJ stock, with extended living stints in LA and DC.
"IIRC, the professor was conceived in Texas born and raised in Delaware and, later and more briefly, in New Jersey."
I'll need to hear from Mick, before I accept that.
I don't associate Romney with any sport.
You're supposed to associate him with skiing and figure skating and luge and other Winter Olympic sports.
Increasingly, I'd like to see the Republican nomination process go all the way to the convention.
Second that.
Me too.
We were remembering the good times under Clinton, not the bad. We liked his centrism and would appreciate the extremists on both sides of the spectrum giving it a rest for a few years, while a competent, experienced person presided over what would hopefully be economic prosperity.
But under Barack Obama the bureaucracy has taken a sharp lurch to the left and our economy has consequently taken a nose dive. Before we had Clinton's centrism we had Ronald Reagan and Bush 41 to straighten out 4 years of Carter. Before a centrist can "preside over ... economic prosperity" we are clearly going to need someone who is a fiscal conservative to bring us back to economic prosperity.
"Wait, "exactly" like you agree with me? Because that seems like a kind of mean thing for you to say about all the rubes that comment here?"
LOL.
I donated to Mitt today because I prefer a moderate Republican over the incompetent failure currently residing in the White House.
Hoosier: That's the central issue we've been discussing while contemplating attending our local Republican Caucus on Jan. 3 (not the donation part).
I just don't think the GOP needs to make the same mistake Democrats made by nominating a thin skinned ideolouge. I didn't like Gingrich back when he was in Congress. I'll grant him his intelligence but he's still an ass.
Big Mike: But under Barack Obama the bureaucracy has taken a sharp lurch to the left and our economy has consequently taken a nose dive. Before we had Clinton's centrism we had Ronald Reagan and Bush 41 to straighten out 4 years of Carter. Before a centrist can "preside over ... economic prosperity" we are clearly going to need someone who is a fiscal conservative to bring us back to economic prosperity.
It's as if the Bush-Delay era never happened.
Ann Althouse wrote: "Andy Exactly."
Yeah, exactly, Andy. Another indoctrinated Ivy Leaguer given to us by the same adults who gave us John McCain.
Dupes.
EDH said:
1584 Holes Since 2009. It's time to have a president whose idea of being "hands on" doesn't mean getting a better grip on the golf club.
Ok, now I get it. This completely explains the Clinton nostalgia.
Ann, how long will it be before you write a post -- 'I could have had Hillary' and slap your forehead.
@Ann
We liked his centrism and would appreciate the extremists on both sides of the spectrum giving it a rest for a few years
"Center" these days means continuing along the same unsustainable path that got us here.
We need Scott Walkers and Chris Christies in the White House, not middle of the road process oriented compromiser.
I'm voting Newt. He won't get wound up with the Homosexual issues, expending capital there, and will focus on the economy and foreign policy.
I'd rather vote for a "maybe" than a "no hope" like Romney.
“…we said he could be like Clinton but without the sexual problems.”
Oh. OK, then. I can see that: Most of the upside and none of the down.
Here’s hoping everyone sobers up before New Hampshire.
Gingrich, too, for that matter) have always sold themselves as competent managers of the Welfare State
Which brings to mind Gingrich's description of Bob Dole as "tax collector for the Welfare State." I second bagoh20--we need a Hercules to divert the Potomac through the stables.
WRT terror and entitlement reform, the Clinton era was "years which the locusts have eaten." The scandal-a-week was entertaining to watch, like a train wreck.
I don't see how they are anything alike other than both being white males. Clinton was a genuine narcissist who loved wheeling and dealing. Clinton doesn't believe in much more than himself. If you look at his history his biggest losses were due to swinging far to the left at the behest of his wife.
Romney, on the other hand, doesn't particularly like wheeling and dealing, he likes administrating. If he has a flaw it's that he takes too many politicians at their word. The healthcare debacle in Massachusetts was partly, if not largely, due to Romney actually believing the state politicians would actually fulfill their promises to him. I'm hoping he learned from that experience.
BTW, the biggest problem with Romney and the religious right isn't his flip-flopping on abortion per se, but that he doesn't give a shit about abortion one way or the other. Like any pragmatist, Romney is willing to shift his position on things in which he has no ideological stake.
@Peter Hoh, as others have noted, Barack Obama has made things quantitatively worse.
News flash. Bush isn't running.
Second news flash, it's going to take a lot to fix things and whining about the mote in Bush's eye while ignoring the log in Obama's eye isn't going to help.
(Even an atheist can quote scripture when he needs to.)
Whomever is elected president in 2012 will likely govern with a solidly conservative House and a split Senate. Enacting the kind of reforms most conservatives desire will require a president who can persuade Democratic senators to cross party lines, or at least give them some cover when they do so. At the very least, a president who will be able to campaign effectively during midterms that those intransigent senators who opposed reform are irresponsible extremists. Someone who appears to be an extremist from other side of the spectrum will be unable to do these things. Politicians want to win, or at least be perceived as winners. You need a moderate to sell significant reform, both to the public, and to fellow politicians. Romney appears to be, so far, the best bet by these criteria.
Holy, moly does Glenn Beck ever despise Gingrich.
Perhaps the following quote is taken out of context (didn't see the referenced show), but it's hard to imagine what context could change the meaning of the quoted words:
“If you have a big government progressive, or a big government progressive in Obama… ask yourself this, Tea Party: is it about Obama’s race? Because that’s what it appears to be to me. If you’re against him but you’re for this guy, it must be about race. I mean, what else is it? It’s the policies that matter.”
Another of Romney's heroes is L Ron Hubbard---prepare for... Appliantopolis, and engram-removal.
the return of
spam-paw-jay-byro the pro-OWS Romneyite and...former rassler. You can recognize it by the blowhard mumbling.
realwest said...
"Andy R. and Prof. Althouse: that you support Romney is fine. IIRC, Prof. Althouse supported (or at least voted for) Obama.
Everyone is entitled to make mistakes.
But to suggest (and agree with) that anyone but Romney in the GOP race is a "Joke Candidate" is more than over the top."
====================
Except that most who voted for Obama over McCain do not believe they made a mistake. Obama was bad, McCain was worse. Evidence of that - is there is absolutely nil support for the POW who suffered. Like Kerry, a lifetime Senator of minimal brains who the whole voting electorate saw, rejected, and never regretted that rejection.
As for joke candidates, I do not consider Huntsman, Romney, Paul, Perry, and Bachmann as jokes. Cain, Gingrich, and gay wars Santorum are jokes at some level. Cain was preposterous, and Gingrich unstable. Bachmann is smarter than people generally know, but she is still a 2-term lightweight Congresswoman whose ambition greatly exceeds her qualifications. Paul is an ideologue, not a joke, but 90% of the public rejects his extreme libertarianism. Huntsman wrong place, wrong time. And Perry, who is in many ways a competent governor and no joke - has serious mental nimbleness issues. His latest faux pas was confusion on how many people are on the Supreme Court. Maybe another brain freeze, but he couldn't answer the question. (His programmming apparantly ended at "he would pick judges in the mold of Roberts and Alito")
Sorepaw - "I'm also curious, in light of a theme 7M has sounded on Romney's behalf, whether he made any effort to rein in out-of-control bureaucracies while Governor of Massachusetts—and, if he actually did, whether he was successful."
================
Romney inherited a 600 million hole in the budget. Despite having an 80% Democrat legislature and 100% Democrat Congressional Representation in DC, he converted that into a 2 billion surplus by cutting programs and streamlining government (cutting fat).
He did increase user fees on actual services for the users vs. General population - but he also cut taxes and met at least biweekly with Dem leaders in the state. If they could not hash out their differences, Romney vetoed their bills. Sometimes he was overriden, but he had no fear of "being overriden" like Bush II did in not vetoing anything for 5 years..
All in all, an impressive fiscal feat, considering the power of the Dems in Massachusetts.
An adult who can build alliances and work with the opposition. Reagan was good at that, so too was Clinton after he defanged Newt and worked with Bob Dole to have a functional governent.
WV -Romney - like Clinton. (and Reagan - who also had a host of moderate and sometimes liberal compromises as governor and was a serial flip-flopper from FDR Democrat and union activist to a more conservative sort post-Hollywood days)
Absurd post and inane blog mistress and her tag along political rationalizations aside ...
mittens, much like Bush43 was born w/a silver spoon, whereas Clinton was rags to riches, much like Obama.
Bush43 had daddy to call when he was in deep sh*t ie 9/11. Who's mittens gonna call when he's in over his head as George Romney passed in 1995.
Alas mittens can't exceed the 25% conservative teabagger threshhold let alone winning Dems and Indy's ...
He's got the hair.
@Ann i don't understand this Clinton faux nostalgia. Clinton was never that popular, his first election he won a plurality and the second he barely eked out a majority of the vote running against a tired old man and Perot. He had his ass kicked in the 94 election and wasn't exactly all that popular at the end of his Administration which Gore ran on as in essence the third Clinton term.
Clinton was lucky he had the right opponents to keep him from pushing the excess of his party's left wing.His was a rather corrupt administration, only exceeded by the current administration. Still compared to Obama he does seem like a good president but at the rate Obama is going Herbert Hoover will look like a good president.
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