Resident just spoke. Says, "We've patiently endured horn blowing, drumming. It seems incomprehensable to allow ppl to camp outside my home"So Alderwoman Lisa Subick wants the government to exercise its discretion for the purpose of agreeing with this particular group of protesters?! If Robertson's tweet is accurate, Subick is advocating the violation of core free speech principles. Government discretion over permits should be viewpoint neutral, not a way for the government to express itself.
Speaker in favor of permit. Says its a great opportunity for Madison to help us express voices since they can't be in Capitol.
Another in support says the protests are going to happen with or without permit, but tents give more structure.
Alderwoman Lisa Subick speaking in support of permit. Asks committee to show Walker Administration you stand behind ppl of Madison.
Member from board asks why is a tent with a sign more powerful than people holding signs? Organizers want constant present of ppl at CapitolUPDATE: Robertson tweets:
Commission approves motion. Tents will be allowed between 9 pm-7 am Sat-Thurs. 9 pm-4:30 am Friday overnights...Oh, okay. Wouldn't want to interfere with businesses or buses!
Mayor Soglin isn't here but spokesperson just came in and said he was under the impression SOME tents would be allowed to stay up during day....
So three designated areas (not determined yet) will allow tents up 24 hours. Areas will not interfere with businesses or buses
Stay tuned! I have exclusive video from the meeting.
UPDATE 2: Here's the edited video with commentary.
पोस्ट्स
११७ टिप्पण्या:
It's not a bad idea. If public sector union members lived in tents, they could afford to take large paycuts and save the taxpayers a lot of money that could be better spent on the poor, the elderly, and the children. Better yet, communal tents. Solidarity.
If the protestors want a constant presence they can buy or rent a home like everyone else.
Who will pick up the trash?
Will the citizens of WI pay for the port-o-potties?
Woodstock 2011.
Better hope it's colder or hotter than normal.
pray for rain
lots of rain.
All is fair in love and war. But these guys seem to love their ongoing war a little too much. Now they want to create a mini Woodstock to relive the 1960s. Dare any grown ups just say no? Stay tuned.
Pretty simple, give them what they want or they'll riot. Madison has made their bed and now they have to lie in it.
pray for rain
Bad for the farmers (lots of rain, that is). Moderate rain is okay. My garden could use rain right now, actually, but that won't be happening, I fear.
I'll be shocked if this is not approved.
Everytime that I am convinced that California is the most effed up State in the Union, I can just look at Wisconsin and realize that we are not alone in our crazy self destruction.
This is not a good thing.
California is lost. Can't someone stand up for sanity?
I'm with that resident. They will be the ones who really pay.
And, of course, the Lefties don't care about them.
And if the residents object, watch the Lefties scream, "Racist! Nazi!".
Seeing Red said...
pray for rain
lots of rain.
I think locusts would be more effective.
Woodstock would be good.
Altamont.....
Hmmm that would put the pigs - police - in a pickle.
5-6 other states have passed some form of this.
Why aren't they there?
5-6 other states have passed some form of this.
Why aren't they there?
This is just a guess on my part. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.
I suspect that in the other states, the bill to strip cb rights was processed normally through the Legislature, and debated. It wasn't attached to an "emergency" budget bill and slammed through with little debate. Citizenry like to be heard -- if you shut them out, then there is a reaction.
Perhaps you have an alternative explanation.
"Slammed" thru?
Hard to be heard when the voice's representatives run away from their duties - and their oath of office.
Will there be a bunch of hippies camping out in front of Lisa Subick's house? Doubt it.
They don't understand how they're making the conservative case and undermining their socialist agenda. If the government reduces their income, and thus their standard of living, it's a bad thing. Yet they are free to willingly reduce their standard of living, and it's a good thing.
So, the conclusion I would draw from their actions is that when the government dictates who deserves what standard of living, fascism flourishes. When people are free to allocate their wealth any way they wish...well, to coin a phrase "this is what democracy looks like."
Simpletons.
Subjects of verbs without tents are in the objective case.
Eg "It is illegal for *him* to camp here."
"*Him* camping here is illegal."
MM, still rewriting history. You know that the process was perfectly Constitutional and in accordance with the wishes of the voters. That's why your pathetic fleebaggers fled their duties to halt the process. You know it, we know it, the whole thinking world knows it. What's it like to have to lie to yourself everyday in order to justify your politics? Sounds like a tragically hollow existence.
Via Drudge:
Techdirt reports that Senate bill 978 – a bill to amend the criminal penalty provision for criminal infringement of a copyright, and for other purposes – may be used to prosecute people for embedding YouTube videos.
According to Mark Masnick, if a website embeds a YouTube video that is determined to have infringed on copyright and more than 10 people view it on that website, the owner or others associated with the website could face up to five years in prison....
I think locusts would be more effective.
Fleas, body lice and herpes. The gifts that last.
Those generally thrive at hippie love-in events.
The traditional way to eliminate unwanted loiterers is to play classical music, or in the case of youth a 20kHz tone, audible to the young but not the old.
Sorry Ann. I know Madison is a nice place and all, but its clearly working through a really stupid period where the left painfully growing up in front of the world. This is only going to get uglier before it gets better. I'd go find a nice country place to hang out while the kids fight.
"MadisonMan said...
It wasn't attached to an "emergency" budget bill and slammed through with little debate. Citizenry like to be heard -- if you shut them out, then there is a reaction.
Perhaps you have an alternative explanation."
You went a long way to find this answer. We don't have protests elsewhere because the left chose not to make a public issue of it in the other states. That's it.
Why? Wisconsin lefties think the circumstances are exactly right for them. The opponent they need to demagogue is new and rightish. The population is used to demagoguery. And they feel more pressure to act because they think of themselves as the leading light of leftism.
To contrast the Massachusetts legislature and governorship are controlled by Democrats. A focus on them might lead moderates to wonder why this is such a big deal if Democrats and Republicans both agree it's a good idea.
I have an idea!
Why don't the protesters set up a tent with a sign ieach n their own yards! Then other residents won't be inconvenienced, and people all through the city will see how it is their own neighbor being affected by this legislation.
For all the claims, it will still end up a mess.
Lord--you madisonians have pegged the idiot meter off the scale
you deserve what you get--
with any luck the tent folks will be defecating on your lawns
MM, still rewriting history.
And your explanation is?
I think Marshal's explanation is close, perhaps -- it's a classic mis-read on the part of Dane Co. Democrats who think they've their hand on the pulse of the state. As if. Haven't they noticed that all their SC picks go down in flames?
Too bad althouse didn't get that downtown Condo -- then she could be really close to this action :)
Assuming this is meant to recreate Hoovervilles,this is a bit odd given that Wisconsin's unemployment rate is below the national average.
They need to get out to Harry Reid territory and set up a "Sandoville"
Dust Bunny Queen said...
I think locusts would be more effective.
Fleas, body lice and herpes. The gifts that last.
Those generally thrive at hippie love-in events.
DBQ, that's a great idea.
Anybody up for a remake of "The Ten Commandments"?
MM, still rewriting history. You know that the process was perfectly Constitutional and in accordance with the wishes of the voters.
Um, it's was ruled illegal. Maybe you didn't notice the wishes of hundreds of thousands of people that filled the streets, or the recalls, or the dreadful polling around the state for Walker or the GOP?
We don't have protests elsewhere because the left chose not to make a public issue of it in the other states. That's it.
There is a recall effort underway for SB 5 in Ohio.
However, Columbus is not Madison. Ohio is much more of a conservative state than Wisconsin.
So, Dear Professor:
How much do you think the taxpayers will end of paying for the temper tantrum when all is said & done?
Tea Pary activists should set up speakers and blast Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck. That would be rather fun.
It's funny that Hoovervilles were borne of necessity, but this Walkerville is serving as a protest mechanism.
Go to a pet store. Buy mice. Lotsa' mice. Release them in the tented area. Sit back, have a nice glass of red, and watch the fun ensue.
"Lord--you madisonians have pegged the idiot meter off the scale|"
Those of us from other parts of the state don't call them "Madison Wackos" for nothing. With all due respect to the blog hostess and other sane people who live there.
Out of 50 States, just like out of a group of 50 people, there will by necessity be one that is the most prone to violence, least informed about the Constitution, most self-obseessed, etc. Wisconsin just happens to be the slowest kid in class, what other explanation do you need?
Thugs. Whose gonna be their speaker? Kloppenhoppen?
Bad for business!
Madison doesn't need to pull in those types from Illinois, and beyond, who sleep in her parks. And, litter.
Kloppenhoppen just used taxpayer money. When she was still short of winning, and the next round ... even among friendly incompetent judges of her own ilk ... she couldn't get her "thousands of supporters" to give her the money she needed.
So, basically, her supporters crapped out on her.
And, now you need another spectacle, huh?
These freaks do not what Wisconsin to pass its budget!
Their new game is on par with their old game.
And, it will be up to the PEOPLE to make sure they vote this crap out of office. OR on election day they stay home. And, sit on their hands.
Bet with all the noise, and the disruption of business ... not one of Tubbs' cops is gonna choke hold, anyone. Different laws for different people.
At least the stores on State Street aren't boarded up, yet.
But imagine this. Storekeepers BOARD UP ROWS OF STORES. And, don't return for the weeks this demonstrations sets off skunk smells.
I wouldn't put taxpayer money into Port-A-Potties, either!
Oh, and the doctors can come out and sell drugs on the corners. That would add a nice touch.
"...stand behind ppl of Madison."
She should say, SOME ppl of Madison.
To hell with the residents, visitors, buses and businesses. The organizers want a constant presence, and the government must help them since they can't drum up support on their own.
After all, they are The People. Power to the People! Some people, anyway.
But how long are the tents going to be up?
This seriously could become a waste removal issue that the city, er, taxpayers foot the bill for.
Let's invite the Rainbow People. The more the merrier, right?
EM Davis. That's the thing. During the depression, those were homeless people boarding on starvation.
These people are very well paid union folks. People who can retire at or about age 56 and never work another day for the rest of their lives.
Notice how none of them are volunteering to go to Milw's north side and help the kids there.
In other news, the administration has dispatched John effen Kerry to Syria--yeah dude--thats the answer--what could go wrong with this?
That's why your pathetic fleebaggers fled their duties to halt the process.
Wrong. It wasn't done to halt the process, but to slow it down. They never claimed otherwise. MM is correct in his synopsis as to the source of the reaction.
In other news, the administration has dispatched John effen Kerry to Syria--yeah dude--thats the answer--what could go wrong with this?
Did he bring his magic hat?
Wonder what Madison's convention/visitors folks think about this. Who wants to vacation in Madison this summer and be surrounded by smelly people who are banging on drums the whole time you are there.
Not exactly the image they convey in the tourism ads.
While it profits some politicians to divide Madison from the rest of the state,Chuck, we do have the lowest unemployment rate, some of the highest paid jobs for skilled professionals, some of the best public schools, great continual street theater on state street, and an attitude of open debate and confrontation. That said, I am going sailing at the Hoofer club this afternoon, and then relax with a beer at the Memorial Union Jazz fest-- talk about living in a terrible bubble.
I have ideas for funny and malodorous counter-protests, but it leads me right back to to this:
Why do Madison Democrats have so much time on their hands?
and an attitude of open debate and confrontation.
Thuggish assult?
I suspect that in the other states, the bill to strip cb rights was processed normally through the Legislature, and debated. It wasn't attached to an "emergency" budget bill and slammed through with little debate. Citizenry like to be heard -- if you shut them out, then there is a reaction.
Are you referring to the budget repair bill that was debated for more than 61 hours in the Assembly?
How much debate would have been sufficient?
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116824378.html
"After a bitter, 61-hour debate that was the longest in living memory, the sleep-starved state Assembly voted in just seconds early Friday to approve a watershed proposal repealing most union bargaining rights held by public workers."
BTW, Walker and the legislature have not yet passed a budget. They passed a budget repair bill to address the deficit that is directly attributable to the irresponsible by Jim Doyle and the previous Democratic controlled legislature. Walker's first budget is still being debated.
Wrong, k*thy. I watched the process unfold and it was clear from the get go what the goal was. To establish the will of the Govt. employees as superior to that of the will of the voters. It was, and is, an anti-Constitution movement by some in the Govt. against the citizens. Casting these bloated thugs as "victims" or as somehow standing up for anything other than their bank accounts is the cherry on top of Wisconsin's Sundae of Stupid.
R-V: appreciate your enjoyment of the festivities in Madison--on a somewhat darker note please recall the results of the paris communard in 1870--didnt work out all too well for the elite as I recall. The victory was, of course,short lived but then many of the elites were also short lived.
It's great that r-v sees the demonization of half or more of America as a positive. Life inside the bubble has always been fabulous.
roesh, how would Madison do if it wasn't for gov't spending?
I get a kick out of Althouse always keeping track of what the protesters are up to, but never what is causing the protesters to protest. Like slipping in a motion at 12:30 last night to end CB rights for cops/firefighters. Walker implicitly said on the campaign that nothing good happens after midnight and they would never so such a thing. But have done it twice now.
roesch, what do you think about Madison based hate groups, like the "Freedom from Religion" organization?
Are you referring to the budget repair bill that was debated for more than 61 hours in the Assembly?
Why was it in the Budget "Repair" bill?
In other states, IIRC, it was passed separately. Why not here?
Um, it's was ruled illegal.
How can a LAW be ILLEGAL unless it violates the Constitution?
Why was it in the Budget "Repair" bill?
Does it really matter what the bill was NAMED?!?!? Holy Jesus. Are you backing off your claim that it was being "rammed" through with little debate? Since, you know, it was in FACT the most-debated bill in the history of the legislature?
talk about living in a terrible bubble.
Life always is good inside a bubble. That's why it's called a bubble, after all. You're so far inside it, you can't even see how that bubble is maintained by the very people you hate and sneer at.
It's funny that Hoovervilles were borne of necessity, but this Walkerville is serving as a protest mechanism.
By the same token, those union demonstrators complaining about their compensation, are far better compensated than the average Wisconsin taxpayer from which they demand ever increasing amounts of goodies.
Oh noes! It appears the Weiner has cancelled his highly anticipated Milwaukee appearance this weekend.
It just goes to show you; the harder they are, the bigger they fall...
Nuking Madison seems to be the only sane alternative.
It wasn't done to halt the process, but to slow it down. They never claimed otherwise.
That's bullshit.
"This afternoon, following a week and a half of line-by-line negotiation, Sen. Miller sent me a letter that offered three options: 1) keep collective bargaining as is with no changes, 2) take our counter-offer, which would keep collective bargaining as is with no changes, 3) or stop talking altogether."
If the fleebaggers were jsut trying to "slow down the process", it would have been their only negotiating point.
You have a lake there, right? Can the tents go in the lake? Make it a floating protest.
At least we Californians know we are wackos. We embrace it. We don't imagine we are a state of rules followers, the Good People of California.
What?? Weiner isn't coming? They did get Johnny Edwards instead?
If Weiner didn't do anything wrong, why is he hiding?
Does it really matter what the bill was NAMED?!?!?
You miss my point completely.
Why have a budget repair bill that includes something -- the "right" to bargain collectively -- that is unrelated to the repairs to the budget?
This is a typical ploy with Legislatures -- wait and wait and wait as nothing gets passed, then load up one huge stinking omnibus bill. Ugh. Not the way to do things, IMO.
Virtually no one bases support or objections to policy on procedural matters. Procedural objections are typically:
(1) throw in arguments persuasive to no one.
(2) attempts to disguise content objections,
(3) appeals to the opposition to reduce friction,
(4) background noise among those on the losing side highlighting malfeasance.
If I'm wrong, why are there exactly no previous supporters of Obamacare who are now actively against it because Democrats gamed the cloture rules?
In the Wisconsin case the procedural violations are negligible. The idea that procedural issues drives this level of response is just not credible.
I believe that police and fire SHOULD have been in the original bill. What's good for the goose/good for the gander kind of thing. Besides, if municipal/county budgets are so far underwater as to lay-off significant numbers of employees, not to include the largest part of the operating budget just decimates everything/everyone else. Of course, as with everything else in this process their timing has been atrocious and totally counter-productive.
I vote Democratic so was resigned to the fact that the majority of Wisc. residents voted the other way and that we should expect a different take on the operations of government. That said, I can't for the life of me understand how the Republicans listened to the idiots who suggested that a 2-hour notice on the vote would pass the PR smell test. They had the votes. All they had to do was wait 24 hours and it would have been passed...hell, wait 48 hours and be ironclad. They couldn't do it...
Fan f*cking tastic. I very much look forward to the Klan and other wacked out groups setting up tents on the square in the future. Approve them or get sued, Madison. Insanity.
Why have a budget repair bill that includes something -- the "right" to bargain collectively -- that is unrelated to the repairs to the budget?
Actually, limiting the ability of unions to bargain for certain budget busting perks, like pensions and health plans, IS central to being able to balance your budgets on the local scale and to keep costs under control.
The limit on collective bargaining didn't affect other aspects of the work environment such as hours and conditions.
The Budget Repair is to allow Districts to better be able to handle their budgets and maintain solvency by eliminating the ability of the Unions to coerce and extort budget busting expenses.
Each District will now be able to balance their budgets based on local needs and ability.
Budget Repair is a very correct term for the bill as the collective bargaining limitation is integral to the budgeting process.
@Dan
If we could somehow interest Westboro Baptists, that would be interesting.
This is a typical ploy with Legislatures -- wait and wait and wait as nothing gets passed, then load up one huge stinking omnibus bill. Ugh. Not the way to do things, IMO.
I agree with you in that regard. I just can't understand how you would think this objection is so important that it justifies shutting down the legislature.
With a little bit of luck the Palin's family vacation bus will roll into Madison on its Western swing through patriotic places. Boy will Piper get an eyefull of Badgers Gone Wild. I hope she has some earplugs left over from the NASCAR Races.
If we could somehow interest Westboro Baptists, that would be interesting.
GOD HATES SCABS
Budget Repair is a very correct term for the bill as the collective bargaining limitation is integral to the budgeting process.
Walker was asked under oath how much the state would save ending CB. He said "none".
What you say is true in general DBQ. But for the specifics of the bill in question, not so much.
The Budget "Repair" Bill was to fix an immediate pressing need (I'm not so certain how pressing it actually was). Ending CB "rights" for state workers is more a long-term tweak to budget problems.
Oh noes! It appears the Weiner has cancelled his highly anticipated Milwaukee appearance this weekend.
Wisconsin leftists are Weinerless. ;)
Sounds like Madison wants their own version of a "cesspool of free speech"
trendsetting....
When is Sarah Palin coming to Madison? I bet there would be a pink mist in town from liberal heads exploding.
Wouldn't the simple matter of holding up a sign in front of this "Walkerville" listing the present value of the lifetime defined benefit pensions and benefits of specifically named public employees blunt any comparison to Hoovervilles?
How would most citizens react to those numbers when compared to their own defined contribution plans, if any?
Walker was asked under oath how much the state would save ending CB. He said "none".
Provide a quote, in context please.
Even if the STATE isn't going to save money, which I doubt is the the case, the individual Districts and County Governments will be able to control costs in a more efficient manner and without the constant extortion from the Unions.
By the way, from a WEAC email that was forwarded to me:
In addition to having a city of tents, Walkerville will include a variety of activities and actions. These include, depending on the day, any of the following:
· Teach-ins on how the budget will impact education, public services, etc.
· Special guests
· Joining hands to circle the Capitol
· Movies on a big screen
· Speak-outs on budget (people speaking out about the budget or telling their story)
· Political theater
· Food drives
· Community meals
· Interfaith services
· Music
Walkerville is not meant to be a 24/7 rally, but an actual community where people can come together to share ideas, offer solutions and build democracy one person at a time.
The visibility of our members is important every Sunday, Monday and Wednesday, until the state budget is passed. Let the Legislature know you're watching.
. All they had to do was wait 24 hours and it would have been passed...hell, wait 48 hours and be ironclad. They couldn't do it...
They never would have been able to do it.
The circus would have come to town w/24 hour notice.
This is an example of why we moved out of Madison more than 20 years ago--we got sick of the way our hard eanred tax money was used by the City of Madison.
You may now un-roll your eyes.
Walker was asked under oath how much the state would save ending CB. He said "none".
you don't believe ending CB will cost the union nothing, otherwise no reason to protest, so why do you make this appeal?
Oh noes! It appears the Weiner has cancelled his highly anticipated Milwaukee appearance this weekend.
oh well, maybe he can tweet you guys.
I bet there would be a pink mist
Like this?
(Link to a great flickr photostream).
The Budget "Repair" Bill was to fix an immediate pressing need (I'm not so certain how pressing it actually was).
It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a budget or plan for any near or intermediate budgeting when your costs, and especially the most expensive costs, are unable to be controlled or counted upon for current and future projections.
Anyone who has ever been in business knows this.
You must be able to accurately project not only your expenses and your income, you have to hope that there will not be sudden unpredictable changes in either.
When you have the greedy gut unions able to put you over a barrel and you hear the banjos of Deliverance in the background, you know your business (or the local government agency) is going to be well and thoroughly screwed.
Limiting collective bargaining (extortion) to things that are important but will not bust the budget is the first step in getting fiscal sanity back and being able to manage the business in the short AND the long term.
vw: shane. Come back!!!
Provide a quote, in context please
If you want to find out, you will google it. I gurantee it is there. It was a response to Kucinich.
Even if the STATE isn't going to save money, which I doubt is the the case, the individual Districts and County Governments will be able to control costs in a more efficient manner and without the constant extortion from the Unions.
You mean, they will get the blame, and not Walker. The famous "we're giving you the TOOLS!" You ever tire of Newspeak?
"Interfaith services" at the capitol? Someone alert Annie Laurie Gaylor!
Teach-ins and speak-outs? Someone is really longing for the 60s.
I hope the Madisonians are aware of how all this plays outside of Dane County. Which is to say we think you people are clowns and fools and idiots; and if Illinois would offer to purchase Madison, we'd let them have it cheap. We'd even throw in Milwaukee as a bonus.
Weiner canceled his Milwaukee appearance because he found out they were popping tents in Madison and he didn't want to be left out.
Teehee. Teehee.
The problem, DBQ, is that the Governor linked the elimination of CB "rights" to the budget "repair" bill. A far better tactic, IMO, would have been to get the budget "repair" bill passed without the CB elimination attached.
THEN, sit down and tell the people of Wisconsin why the elimination of CB "rights" for public employees was so important. Stay ON MESSAGE about it because the budget repair bill is done.
The problem is (was) that combining the two allowed Unions to suggest some kind of underhandedness that ginned up some of their less than enthusiastic supporters, resulting in large rallies that made the Unions think (erroneously IMO) that huge swaths of the population were supporting them. And the Gov can't stay on message about why CB for government employees is a bad thing because it's all wrongly tangled up in the budget.
That's my view on it, at least.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a budget or plan for any near or intermediate budgeting when your costs, and especially the most expensive costs, are unable to be controlled or counted upon for current and future projections....
The man in the aisle seat is trying to tell me why he refuses to hire anybody. His business is successful, he says, as the 737 cruises smoothly eastward. Demand for his product is up. But he still won’t hire.
“Why not?”
“Because I don’t know how much it will cost,” he explains. “How can I hire new workers today, when I don’t know how much they will cost me tomorrow?”
He’s referring not to wages, but to regulation: He has no way of telling what new rules will go into effect when. His business, although it covers several states, operates on low margins. He can’t afford to take the chance of losing what little profit there is to the next round of regulatory changes. And so he’s hiring nobody until he has some certainty about cost.....
----------------------
I hope the Madisonians are aware of how all this plays outside of Dane County.
I'll be spending most of the summer in Vilas county. & I believe it is my civic duty to tell folks up there what it's been like to live in downtown Madison this year. Every "This is what democrazy looks like" honkin' detail.
I suspect that in the other states, the bill to strip cb rights was processed normally through the Legislature, and debated.
errr ... MadMan ... you live there.
Did you not notice that the Democrats packed up and LEFT THE STATE specifically so the bill couldn't be "processed normally" which meant it couldnt be "debated"?
Nothing like supporting the legislative process. *Not*
Which if I get this representative gov't thing right, is the purpose of the legislature.
The WI Dems look and act to the rest of us who have been paying attention like a bunch of spoiled self-entitled brats.
Certainly not adults.
Ditto the protesters.
So please. Don't whine. You tend to be one of the more reasonable liberals on list.
@JAL, the only thing I whine about is humidity.
The problem, DBQ, is that the Governor linked the elimination of CB "rights" to the budget "repair" bill. A far better tactic, IMO, would have been to get the budget "repair" bill passed without the CB elimination attached.
Let's cut the bullshit, MadisonMan. Do you honestly, really believe the level of hostility and protests would be any less just because this was introduced as a separate bill?
This was the actual exchange between Walker and Kucinich:
KUCINICH: Let me ask you about some of the specific provisions in your proposals to strip collective bargaining rights. First, your proposal would require unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their own members. Can you please explain to me and members of this committee how much money this provision saves for your state budget?
WALKER: That and a number of other provisions we put in because if you’re going to ask, if you’re going to put in place a change like that, we wanted to make sure we protected the workers of our state, so they got value out of that. [...]
KUCINICH: Would you answer the question? How much money does it save, Governor?
WALKER: It doesn't save any. [...]
The question was about the amount of money saved by requiring unions to hold annual votes, not whether ending collective bargaining saves money.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good fairytale.
This was the actual exchange between Walker and Kucinich:
Hence garage's refusal to provide a confirming link upon request, then. Typical.
Do you honestly, really believe the level of hostility and protests would be any less just because this was introduced as a separate bill?
I think it might have helped. It would have reduced public support for the Unions in my opinion.
I think it might have helped. It would have reduced public support for the Unions in my opinion.
No disrespect, but I think you're delusional. Marshal is right -nobody (by which I mean only a very tiny minority) really cares about process. What percentage of the protesters do you think supported the substance of the bill, but just not how it was passed?
I think *you* care about it, and are inappropriately projecting that onto everybody else.
Bushman, your excerpt starts with this:
KUCINICH: Let me ask you about some of the specific provisions in your proposals to strip collective bargaining rights.
"Walker was asked under oath how much the state would save ending CB. He said "none".
Another Lib forced to lie to himself in order to avoid recognizing how disastrously he's been wrong throughout his lifetime. It's an internal battle I don't envy. On the bright side, David Mamet recently climbed out of the pit of ignorance, you could to.
garage, the specific provision Kucinich asked about dealt with the annual union vote. This is not that same as saying "ending collective bargaining saves no money."
CB was attached to the budget repair bill because many school districts were in the midst of negotations with their teachers. Teachers usually have 2 year contracts so it was important that school districts be able to take advantage of the cost savings resulting from the elimination of CB on benefits because of the cuts that will be coming in the budget. And many teachers unions around the state did make concessions that they would not have made if CB had not been in the repair bill.
Thank you Bushman. That's what I thought.
The quote was taken out of context and spun to represent something else entirely.
I have a feeling that the organizers of the protest fear mightily that no one will show up--unless they are offered enticements, like a big hippie campout-and that's the real reason for the permit.
What if you gave a revolution and no one showed up?
garage, the specific provision Kucinich asked about dealt with the annual union vote. This is not that same as saying "ending collective bargaining saves no money."
Ok, Walker admitted this specific bargaining stripping provision would save the state no money. But would be carried out anyway.
Ok, Walker admitted this specific bargaining stripping provision would save the state no money. But would be carried out anyway.
Having the union membership VOTE to determine if they want to be in or have a union is not stripping anyone's bargaining rights.
Those two things are completely different.
Duh.
Then why is it a provision in the bill. To help the unions?
Then why is it a provision in the bill. To help the unions?
No. To help the State of Wisconsin and all of the people (not just the union lobby), which is what the Governor is supposed to do.
If the Union is a benefit to its members, then they will vote to continue to have a union. If not, then ....that's what democracy looks like.
If the Union is a benefit to its members, then they will vote to continue to have a union. If not, then ....that's what democracy looks like.
::THREADWIN::
If the Union is a benefit to its members, then they will vote to continue to have a union.
Unions should have annual pledge drives, just like Public Radio. If there is a benefit, they'll get members.
"Unions should have annual pledge drives"
"It will be a great day when our schools get only the money they need, and unions have to hold a bake sale to buy an election."
"It will be a great day when our schools get only the money they need, and unions have to hold a bake sale to buy an election."
Awesome.
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