UPDATE: 4:00 Central Time, of course. I'll be in class until 4:50, but Meade will be covering the event, so go into the comments to see what he's got to say.
UPDATE 2: Kloppenburg has called for a statewide recount. Video to come.
UPDATE 3: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
Assistant Attorney General JoAnne Kloppenburg requested Wednesday a statewide recount - the first in 22 years - to check the results in the April 5 election for state Supreme Court race she lost to Justice David Prosser, the Government Accountability Board said....
Kloppenburg also called on the board to appoint a special investigator to probe the "actions and words" of Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus.
पोस्ट्स
२३० टिप्पण्या:
230 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»My guess is her heart isn't in it, but she's under tremendous pressure to be an asshole by a whole union of assholes.
I bet two to one that she makes a heroines plea of self sacrifice and demands a true re-count to keep her cred with the only friends she has left who are the Union bosses.
I hope she'll give a gracious concession speech
Not gonna happen Garage Mahal assures me.
I would expect Prosser to if the exact same set of circumstances were reversed. I suspect everyone of the AA regulars feels the same way.
I don't think it is necessary, but I wouldn't begrudge her a recount of Waukesha. For reasonable people, that should be enough. For unreasonable people, nothing will suffice
I hope the throws a tantrum. On the floor. Legs kicking. Tears streaming down cheeks. Fists pounding the ground. Oh my God, I would love to see a candidate actually reveal how they truly feel inside, uninhibited by what looks best on camera.
(I voted no, but she will.)
As a famous woman once (almost) said: "Hopin' ain't gettin'".
I for one shall offer her kudos if she does.
As a Demo, she'll feel obliged to play it out, and she was a little too quick to declare to be gracious now.
I don't think it is necessary, but I wouldn't begrudge her a recount of Waukesha.
What are the rules regarding partial recounts? Can she pick and choose only counties where she stands to gain?
I have no idea what the partial recount rules are, or if they even exist. I would think it can be done. Really, there are no significant questions about the count. It doesn't look much like there are any questions about the validity of ballots or voters. K's attorneys may be sitting on that, preparing for litigation. But 7300 is a big number to overcome. Too many frankenunits.
I voted "No, and she won't". I have a particularly rosy predisposition these days. Somebody, somewhere, has to begin to redeem the Madisonian masses. They can't go out screaming "Fuck You!" at tweens.
She shouldn't, and I know she probably does even want to. But, then she thought of the children. So, she'll do it.
The Klopper is scheduling her "announcement" for 4:00 on the last possible date. It sure seems she is trying to get maximum attention for her decision. She could have said she wasn't asking for a recount days or weeks ago.
The timing suggests she is requesting a recount.
Paddy O: But, then she thought of the children. So, she'll do it.
So cynical and so right.
I would expect Prosser to if the exact same set of circumstances were reversed. I suspect everyone of the AA regulars feels the same way.
Agreed, but I suspect that if the situation were reversed, Prosser wouldn’t try to drag this out and would have made his announcement last week. I’m not saying either of them would be wrong in asking for a recount when it’s within the 0.5% margin, Prosser just strikes me as the sort to make his decision and move forward rather than trying to drag out his 15 minutes of fame.
Not gonna happen Garage Mahal assures me
really? When was that? My opinion is if it's not a full manual recount, it's a waste of time. You're just relying on Krazy Kathys and the optical scan machines "counts" that have already been tabulated. I find it curious Prosser, [a judge], would try to stop a legal recount though, and for that reason alone it should procede.
What would be the grounds for a recount in Brookfield?
Preliminary investigation shows nothing that would affect outcome of high court contest
A preliminary investigation of Waukesha vote totals by the state agency that runs elections shows only minor problems that wouldn't change the outcome of the state Supreme Court race.
The Government Accountability Board (GAB) began its investigation after Waukesha County clerk Kathy Nickolaus failed to report 14,000 votes from the city of Brookfield on Election Night. The discovery of those votes flipped the race, putting Supreme Court incumbent David Prosser ahead of JoAnne Kloppenburg.
Last week, GAB staff compared Waukesha County totals with those reported by municipalities and found only three votes were not counted. GAB director Kevin Kennedy says this initial review should assure the public that votes cast match those counted.
However, the investigation into Waukesha County practices will continue.
I find it curious Prosser, [a judge], would try to stop a legal recount though, and for that reason alone it should procede.
I find it curious how quickly Kloppenburg declared victory on election night. It's almost like she was expecting the results to balloon up to insurmountable in her favor...hmm...
Mine is definitely the minority opinion on the poll but I voted “yes and she will.” If 0.5% is the margin at which the people of the State of Wisconsin have in effect said “it’s close enough that the taxpayers should be willing to pay for a recount to ensure the accuracy of the election,” then I won’t begrudge her – or Prosser if the situation were reversed – from exercising the option.
LMAO... Garage Mahal is still clinging to the canard that votes were found on a "personal computer."
(The Crypto Jew)
LMAO... Garage Mahal is still clinging to the canard that votes were found on a "personal computer."
When everyone KNOWS only votes found in the trunk of a car, can be considered REAL votes!
Her heart is in it, but the Dimmycrat Machine has moved on. They got a Community Organizer to re-elect, you know.
So she will be abruptly pushed out of the Left's speeding election vehicle and left to fend for herself.
Someday we may reference this when we think of having a back up or contigency plan.
"Man, you don't want to be Kloppenburged do you? You better read the writing on the capitol walls and have that plan B ready."
She'll ask for a recount of only the heavily democratic counties - ala Gore/
Glad to hear Meade will be "covering it."
I'll watch for the "news" later
The Kloppenbopper has a reputation to protect in the WI legal community. I don't think she'll make it worse with a sure-to-fail stunt against a justice who has a new 10 year term.
You really don't expect her to do the right thing?
What makes you think she will be gracious?
I think she'll do the right thing because it's in her self interest to end this now.
Unless she thinks she has a future as general counsel to the unions, or palns to run as a circuit court judge, then it may be in her self-interest to embrace the madness.
Nicklaus only failed to report Brookfield's votes to the freaking Associated Press! And that was inadvertent.
No recount necessary.
That being said, I hope she'll take the high road and concede, but she took really bad advice declaring victory early (twice) and I feel she will continue to take bad advice.
She's proven she's not qualified to be a judge let alone a justice on the high court.
vw: nampl
She's proven she's not qualified to be a judge
This is a nonsense statement. The qualification to be a judge in Wisconsin is only slightly more strict than the qualification to be alive.
Kloppenburg is filing papers, at the GAB as we speak.
*muted trumphet*
Ready....set....WHINE!
Are those her AKC papers?
Kloppenburg is filing papers, at the GAB as we speak.
So she's not going through with the recount because she lost her judicial job and took one as a clerk?
How does that warrant a trumpet, however muted?
And when the recount validates the results of the election and awards the seat to Prosser, then what?
Lawsuit?
So she's not going through with the recount because she lost her judicial job and took one as a clerk?
She *is* going through with the recount.
She *is* going through with the recount.
Even though she took a job as a clerk?
The Kloppenburg campaign has officially requested a recount, a spokesman for the Government Accountability Board says.
Meade is a non-union substitute teacher.
MadisonMan said: The qualification to be a judge in Wisconsin is only slightly more strict than the qualification to be alive.
Will she being speaking/announcing from home? Are there a lot of news media types in your neighborhood right now?
Well never let it be said that the Klopper would miss a chance to miss a chance.
She as a great future as a Met's general manager or investing the Wilponzie's money.
"Kloppenburg is filing papers, at the GAB as we speak. "
Pathetic.
Kloppenburg has filed for a state-wide recount.
Did I predict garage at 2:50 PM or what?
So she may have a fool for a client.
Yes, she does appear whiny. I can't see how this helps her or the Cause.
Continued victimhood when she loses?
Perpetuation of the Shame! ?
Another excuse to beat the drum slowly and do the tribal chant with her fellow circle-walkers?
She probably was under a lot of pressure. On the other hand, character is doing the right thing under pressure.
And the bartender at the Wisconsin State Bar buys the house a round as his cash registrar keeps going ka-ching!
I lost my mind for a minute and voted that she would show some class and concede. Foolish me.
How many times does she want to lose this election? Sheesh, I would think once was enough.
All things considered, I don't mind the idea of a recount here. The margin is close enough to justify it. I'd mind excessive griping over ballot approvals/disapprovals. But a check to make sure the i's are dotted and t's crossed, that's okay.
Sadly the conspiracy minded (on both sides) will whine over this no matter what.
Wow...for once Kloppenburg looks like her makeup wasn't applied by a gradaute of Ringling Bros. Clown College in Baraboo.
She's even calling for a special investigator for Waukesha.
She just announced she is going to do it. And call for an investigation of Waukesha County.
So I think from now on when somebody does something stupid in trying to be a judge we call it catching the Klopp.
"Wow...for once Kloppenburg looks like her makeup wasn't applied by a gradaute of Ringling Bros. Clown College in Baraboo."
That is damn funny.
wv: maminess
What are the rules regarding partial recounts? Can she pick and choose only counties where she stands to gain?
Isn't that the same stunt attempted by the Divinity School drop-out in 2000?
I'm never again going to over estimate the integrity or sense of fair play of a liberal.
Fair is only important when they want to raise your taxes dude.
Otherwise it don't mean jackshit.
Ok, I just barfed a little in my mouth.
@TosaGuy...congrats to your Mayor for her veto of the union contracts.
Kloppenburg is asking for the recount "to restore confidence in elections" not because she might win. She's now claiming the GAB isn't independent.
mm said...
Isn't that the same stunt attempted by the Divinity School drop-out in 2000?
4/20/11 4:08 PM
Law School droup out too and a global warming alarmist grifter, too.
Alrighty then. What's the over and under on the net vote change? I say 11.
Kloppy is going ahead with the recount! Does it even surprise you?
droup is the new drop
So...predictions anyone? What are the chances they suddenly find a windfall of ballots in her favor and she ends up winning?
She collected a lot of money for a recount so now she needs to have one.
Let the recount begin.
Never let a crisis go to waste...there are more political points to capture.
I guess I overestimated the amount of "Wisconsin Nice" in her makeup. Oh well, I'm happy the totals are totally outside the margin of lawyer. Go ahead, "investigate" Waukesha, see how much "confidence" is "restored". Pfft.
I just hope that the Republicans take this waste of taxpayer funds and run with it in 2012. Heck, run with it right now. Show the absolute disregard for financial turmoil coming from a *supposedly* non-partisan election.
wv: "ingst" What I'm feeling right now listening to Kloppenburg speak. ugh
As I used to say as a kid
Try to imagine how little I care
Watching this broadcast makes me think that they believe that they will "find" enough ballots to win.
She says the "law requires a recount". No, is says she can ask for one.
Remind me never to give a Democrat the benefit of a doubt, ever again.
You lefties really know how to dig your own grave, don't you.
Your base is shrinking, and the indies are not impressed favorably with the lack of maturity and respect you have for the process.
Just because she could (by a miniscule amount) doesn't mean she had to.
It is true. The Democrats are out to eliminate class.
So, you're saying there's a chance that Klopper will win??!!
God I hate Madison, and all of the stupid, stoned, victimologist, Obama ass-licking abortionist clowns who live here.
What a disgraceful, fear-mongering, mendacious announcement. She had an opportunity to rise above the worst instincts and baseless allegations fabricated by her supporters and to act judicial - objective, impartial, and disinterested. Instead, she did the opposite and validated their prejudice. She's a classless clown and partisan hack, who doesn't belong near any position of power or influence. Enjoy your well-deserved trip back to obscurity.
She could be appointed Obama's new Czar for Outdoor Election Dramas to be held at State Capitols all over the country. She has a talent.
What are the betting odds on 8000 or so democrat ballots being 'found' in the trunk of some union worker's car?
"God I hate Madison, and all of the stupid, stoned, victimologist, Obama ass-licking abortionist clowns who live here."
Gee, that really bums me out.
I voted yes on both accounts, because really, the longer this stretches out, the more pathetic and desperate the Democratic party looks.
Viva la protest dogs!
God I hate Madison, and all of the stupid, stoned, victimologist, Obama ass-licking abortionist clowns who live here.
So if I understand you correctly, you're not in favor of the recount?
In related news, the Wonkette Skank is back to sliming Palin's kids.
"the folks at Wonkette questioned Trig’s parentage, implied incest within the Palin family, called the little boy a retarded political prop, and recommended that he get drunk to deal with his family that's even stupider than he is."
Democrats suck.
Now, everyone look a MadisonMan staring down at his shoelaces...
Will Althouse ever give Meade the blog password so he can post stuff too? Tune in tomorrow.....
Liberal...gracious??? Name the last one...thought so! Least you had "hope" in there!
Hey garage - What positions are the World Champions in need of in the draft?
Suddenly I feel the urge to watch "The Neverending Story."
In all honesty I can't blame her. If I were running for something without a snowball's chance in hell and then were thrust out of obscurity into the national spotlight with heavy union and out-of-state support to give me a fighting chance, only to erroneously declare victory and have my dreams crushed with just this one option to save face, I'd ask for a recount, too.
Maybe she could spend the duration of the recount applying her makeup with something resembling sufficient grace. Maybe.
Kloppenburg is asking for the recount "to restore confidence in elections"
Because that worked so well for Florida. Democrats eating chads.
Seriously, the anger from the Dems has been that they were sandbagged on election night and they sent their 10,000+ fake absentee ballots back into storage instead of feeding them in late election night. Damn those cheating GOP officials for giving out a false target number head fake to win by a trickery. That is so not fair.
So I was right again..
"Nicklaus only failed to report Brookfield's votes to the freaking Associated Press!"
Yes, but that fact has been conveniently, and very deliberately, ignored.
It should be restated relentlessly.
"So I was right again.."
Lem is awesome.
garage mahal says
"So if I understand you correctly, you're not in favor of the recount?"
Don't misunderstand me. I feel JoAnn will be great candidate who will always be impartial to anything concerning the party you cherish.
I'm happy that our state will have to pay over a million just so the unions, who have fucked this state over by many millions more, can get the absent-minded puppet they need to send this state into debt to the likes of Illinois, California, and New York.
She only received 12 1/2 minutes of her 15, so she's trying to get the remaining 2 1/2.
@O.M. I think they can never get enough good OL to protect the best QB in the league. So OL higher in the draft, then look at RB, and best player available after that? But we know TT doesn't draft necesaarily by needs, so....
A manual statewide recount could take weeks.. depriving Wisconsin of a Supreme.. while allowing Sumi to have her way with Walker.. or something close to that ;)
I just love her phony 'aren't you just glad to touch my hand' look, complemented by the ream of papers and reading glasses at the ready...
Good thing he had his glasses on....
http://wislawjournal.com/blog/2011/04/01/palin-endorses-prosser-in-wis-supreme-court-race/
I'm happy that our state will have to pay over a million just so the unions, who have fucked this state over by many millions more, can get the absent-minded puppet they need to send this state into debt to the likes of Illinois, California, and New York.
If you need to be reminded what the carcass looks like after the Union is done with it -> Detroit.
"I think they can never get enough good OL to protect the best QB in the league."
Hard to argue with that (though if Trooper were awake, he would).
Lem, Prosser's current term isn't up until August, so her recount won't deprive the Supreme Court of a Justice. Thankfully.
wv: rhizat
Ironically, this will have the effect of repeating and reinforcing the fact that Democrats and organized labor lost. This is not waving a bloody shirt. Where a state Supreme Court race is typically forgotten by 6 am the day following the election - Gableman, maybe, excepted - this will not change the result, but merely broadcast the failure for another 6-10 weeks. OK. Go ahead and make my day.
You heard it here first..
Sumi and Kloppi Collude to keep Walkers agenda out in the cold.
Lord you folks in wisconsin are totally fucked up--but its your tax dollars, so dig a little deeper to pay for the recount.
foxtrot wrote:
I'm happy that our state will have to pay over a million just so the unions, who have fucked this state over by many millions more, can get the absent-minded puppet they need to send this state into debt to the likes of Illinois, California, and New York.
Remember that the concept of debt just doesn't register with garage mahal. Just print more money already and send it to Wisconsin to build trains!
Galdosiana says:
"Suddenly I feel the urge to watch "The Neverending Story.""
Suddenly I feel the urge to send Kloppenburg a box of "Just For Men", just so she can take some of the gray out of her hair. She might as well look half way decent up there on the bench if she is going to steal the recount.
Given the tone, I expect that K will be in Waukesha, contesting every possible vote. Nice to see she will suck up more Union $$$ for her attorneys. Honestly, I thought she'd ask for the recount, but with a bit of grace. Thinking it over, I had no basis on which to assume she would have any grace whatsoever.
WV: nosuin. Hey there, Klopp - there better be nosuin in this whole recount deal...
Hard to argue with that (though if Trooper were awake, he would).
Don't ever take any football advice from Trooper. Look away!
Oh, thank God.. and thank you for your alert notice.
The Democrats are absolutely shameless. But of course, we already knew that. After all they are the Party of Slavery.
After the way the Democrats have behaved post 9/11, colluding with our enemies, conducting a proxy war against America, these election shenanigans are chump change.
Road kill--eating road kill is why wisconsinites are so fucked up--no amount of beer and brats can overcome the effects of eating road kill
What's happened to you, Roger?
Still the same old cheerful roger, Mike
just commenting on the rather strange dietary habits of wisconsinites
"…this will not change the result, but merely broadcast the failure for another 6-10 weeks. OK. Go ahead and make my day."
Good point…hadn't thought of that.
I'll sit back and shamefully watch the left re-live its betrayal by the shameful voters of Wisconsin.
Wisconsin's got a bad case of the Klop. It's gonna take months to get rid of it.
Kloppy made the dumbest move in Wisconsin since Bert Bielema had Scot Tolzein pass to Tank Carder to end the Rose bowl.
I'm posting from Florida, not Wisconsin, so I may be mistaken. Correct me if I'm wrong.
As I understand it, the Chief Justice, who is very liberal, will appoint a judge to hear any election recount cases.
If that judge gets appealed, it will go to WiSC, where the reclusal of Prosser will mean the court could very well end up hung at a 3-3 vote.
If that happens the tie breaker is the Secretary of State LaFolotte (sp?).
If that's true, and considering all the FUD they tossed around regarding Waukesha not properly giving the AP the unofficial numbers (a.k.a., the crime of the century), then I think they're actually going to go for the steal.
They'll do it not by conveniently finding votes, but by chiseling away Prosser's votes via the legal process.
Good luck guys, you're going to need to have to fight like hell to ward that off.
Kloppenburg is asking for the recount "to restore confidence in elections"
Actually, she's doing it (and asking for this silly "investigation") for just the opposite reasons.
See, by pretending their are legitimate questions worthy of 2 more months of review, it gives the droolers like garage fodder to pretend something sinister happened.
That way, when the next Al Franken, Dino Rossi type "recounts" take place, garage and his silly, ignorant ilk can pretend it is all the same because of "Waukesha"
Isn't that nice?
the Klop will still lose -- Chrissy Gregoire had to only find 700 votes in WA state to beat dino rossi--no way the dems in wisconsincn come up with 7000
but it will be fun to watch the caterwualing after the recount because there is no more recourse. the best outcome would have the klop lose by one--my preferred outcome
really? When was that? My opinion is if it's not a full manual recount, it's a waste of time. You're just relying on Krazy Kathys and the optical scan machines "counts" that have already been tabulated. I find it curious Prosser, [a judge], would try to stop a legal recount though, and for that reason alone it should procede.
I think the only way to insure a full, fair voting procedure is to have everyone gather collectively at the appropriate localities and then a raised hand count.
No one is leaving here until we count all of votes. And no talking or chewing gum
(Or maybe I'm reading you wrong Garage, maybe the reason you feel there should be a recount is because you "find it curious". Well that's good enough for me.)
Maybe we should call you Curious Garage from now on.
I wanted her to graciously accept defeat. But since she didn't, I hope the recount finds another 2000 votes for Prosser, so that her humiliation is more intense.
As expected, the Klap is incapable of being gracious.
Screw her.
And an investigation of Waukesha? Even though the correct vote totals were in the Brookfield paper that night?
Does WI need a low-level functional retard on the Supreme Court?
Well, she did claim that some "conservative bloggers" had the Brookfield results before they were made public so that's a cuase for investigation ....maybe she was referring to Althouse.
I told you - it's who she is.
She is legally entitled to request a recount, so she has done so. However, one of the things my late father always said to me was, "Just because it's legal doesn't make it right." I wish her father had taught her the same lesson.
Well, in the immortal words of Bill Maher, what a dumb twat that Kloppy is.
This vindicates the voters of WI. I don't know much about the two judges' other qualifications, but Klopp has acted poorly and less than judicial in this election.
(Or maybe I'm reading you wrong Garage
I think you are, as you're responding to something I didn't post.
I didn't write: "No one is leaving here until we count all of votes. And no talking or chewing gum"
Although I shouldn't be, I am surprised the level of anger over a recount that she is entitled to under state law. The right woyuld be screaming bloody murder if the situation was reversed.
Garage...We all feel sorry for Kloppy, and we wish her the best, but she will likely end up under Obama's bus.
" but Meade will be covering the event, so go into the comments to see what he's got to say."
I think Meade could have been given the keys to the blog, just this once. For an update.
He's already the editor, and a major image contributor, and his words are fairly regularly posted. Allowing the meadia to post a simple informational update--at the explicit direction of the blog boss--seems reasonable.
At some point the training wheels need to come off.
As Jay mentioned: This ain't about any of the things she said it was about. This is all about the "narrative." So that the vile left can excuse any and all real fraud with "What about WI?"
No matter that an independent review by the major newspapers in FL in 2000 all found that yes, Bush won, the lie still lives on 11 years later that Bush "stole" the election. This is the same. They just need fresh fig leaves for their tree of lies.
Lost the House, Senate, Governor and U.S. Senate elections - check
Lost the battle of passing the Budget Bill - check
Lost the Supreme Court election - check
Lost the recount - pending check
Lost the public relations/image fight - check
Vote Democrat 2012!!!
Not thrilled.
I wonder if the Packers -- who are WORLD CHAMPIONS -- will do anything with an eye to replacing Donald Driver. He and Charles -- Oh Dear God, I'm blanking on the last name (Woodson? Woodward?) -- are getting up there age wise.
I (heart) Donald Driver. I am SO glad he got a ring.
P.S. Fen: I'm wearing slip-ons.
Have you guys been paying no attention to the behavior of the democrats in your State? The ones who played hardball by hiding in Illinois to avoid a vote?
Be very, very wary of the appeals to the recount.
From Recounts: Balancing the finality of an election against the will of the electorate
"Appealing recount results to the circuit court
A candidate has the right to appeal the results of a recount in circuit court within five days of the completion of the recount.25 If the recount is held in a voting district that spans more than one judicial district, the chief justice of the Wisconsin Supreme Court appoints a circuit court judge (a reserve judge, if available) to hear the appeal.26 Any appeal of the recount results is heard by the circuit court judge, without a jury, in an expedited fashion.27
An appeal of a recount is the only means by which a candidate may go to court to contest any part of the recount or election. A party appealing the recount results must establish, through evidence, that: 1) a mistake, fraud, defect, irregularity, or illegality was committed during the voting, canvassing, or recount process; 2) the offending conduct led to votes being improperly included in or excluded from the election results; and (3) the number of disputed votes exceeds the margin by which the prevailing candidate won.28
The circuit court will affirm the county board of canvassers’ determination, unless the court concludes that the board of canvassers erroneously interpreted state law or any finding of fact by the board is not supported by substantial evidence.29
The court’s review of the recount is limited to the evidence offered to the board of canvassers during the recount, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence.30 Put another way, a party who fails to object or offer evidence of a defect or irregularity during the recount waives the right to object or offer such evidence in court, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence or the evidence is newly discovered.
In voting districts that span more than one judicial district, an appeal of the circuit court’s decision is assigned to District 4 of the Wisconsin Court of Appeals.31"
Okay. So, Wisconsin "stays in play" while the democraps try to push their "stalled" agenda onward.
Joe Corsi, the guy who SWIFT BOATED Kerry ... got a headline, today, at Drudge. His next book is coming out in a month. It deals with the whole HIDDEN agenda that got Obama elected WITHOUT QUALIFICATIONS.
So, now it won't be "just Trump." And, yes, I ordered this book from Amazon.
Oh, if there's gonna be a fight, ahead, it's not as one-sided as the union thugs think.
Well, she did claim that some "conservative bloggers" had the Brookfield results before they were made public so that's a cuase for investigation ....maybe she was referring to Althouse.
Man, she'd make a GREAT judge.
I have no idea if the Brookfield Patch is conservative --- but I know the writer says where she got the info: the city of Brookfield's office.
Nickolaus works for Waukesha.
So, the AP being lazy is a scandal? Since when?
"I would expect Prosser to if the exact same set of circumstances were reversed. I suspect everyone of the AA regulars feels the same way."
I don't know how the exact same set of circumstances could exist.
I suppose if Prosser declared victory with a couple hundred vote lead, maybe the circumstances would be close enough to the same. But what would have been the chances of that?
You know, I think Wisconsin really dodged a bullet here. What does it mean to be so confident in a 200some count lead that one does not even think twice about how embarrassing it would be if the numbers shifted?
I can't decide if that speaks most to interpersonal skills or judgment.
Have you guys been paying no attention to the behavior of the democrats in your State? The ones who played hardball by hiding in Illinois to avoid a vote?
Be very, very wary of the appeals to the recount.
From Recounts: Balancing the finality of an election against the will of the electorate
"Appealing recount results to the circuit court
A candidate has the right to appeal the results of a recount in circuit court within five days of the completion of the recount.25 If the recount is held in a voting district that spans more than one judicial district, the chief justice of the Wisconsin Supreme Court appoints a circuit court judge (a reserve judge, if available) to hear the appeal.26 Any appeal of the recount results is heard by the circuit court judge, without a jury, in an expedited fashion.27
An appeal of a recount is the only means by which a candidate may go to court to contest any part of the recount or election. A party appealing the recount results must establish, through evidence, that: 1) a mistake, fraud, defect, irregularity, or illegality was committed during the voting, canvassing, or recount process; 2) the offending conduct led to votes being improperly included in or excluded from the election results; and (3) the number of disputed votes exceeds the margin by which the prevailing candidate won.28
The circuit court will affirm the county board of canvassers’ determination, unless the court concludes that the board of canvassers erroneously interpreted state law or any finding of fact by the board is not supported by substantial evidence.29
The court’s review of the recount is limited to the evidence offered to the board of canvassers during the recount, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence.30 Put another way, a party who fails to object or offer evidence of a defect or irregularity during the recount waives the right to object or offer such evidence in court, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence or the evidence is newly discovered.
In voting districts that span more than one judicial district, an appeal of the circuit court’s decision is assigned to District 4 of the Wisconsin Court of Appeals.31"
So it's a while to go before we can definitively, finally say to Kloppy: LOSER!
Just as well.
The law gives her the right and she exercised it. My guess is that they have some plan they think will give them the election beyond just the recount. Anything to get this into the Dane County courts.
There's a much higher likelihood that the democrats will lose some support over this than somehow pull out the election.
What does it mean to be so confident in a 200some count lead that one does not even think twice about how embarrassing it would be if the numbers shifted?
Because since 2004, Democrats always gain votes in contested elections. She got blindsided when the Brookfield numbers came in late.
Having trouble posting this. try and try again...
Have you guys been paying no attention to the behavior of the democrats in your State? The ones who played hardball by hiding in Illinois to avoid a vote?
Be very, very wary of the appeals to the recount.
From Recounts: Balancing the finality of an election against the will of the electorate
"Appealing recount results to the circuit court
A candidate has the right to appeal the results of a recount in circuit court within five days of the completion of the recount.25 If the recount is held in a voting district that spans more than one judicial district, the chief justice of the Wisconsin Supreme Court appoints a circuit court judge (a reserve judge, if available) to hear the appeal.26 Any appeal of the recount results is heard by the circuit court judge, without a jury, in an expedited fashion.27
An appeal of a recount is the only means by which a candidate may go to court to contest any part of the recount or election. A party appealing the recount results must establish, through evidence, that: 1) a mistake, fraud, defect, irregularity, or illegality was committed during the voting, canvassing, or recount process; 2) the offending conduct led to votes being improperly included in or excluded from the election results; and (3) the number of disputed votes exceeds the margin by which the prevailing candidate won.28
The circuit court will affirm the county board of canvassers’ determination, unless the court concludes that the board of canvassers erroneously interpreted state law or any finding of fact by the board is not supported by substantial evidence.29
The court’s review of the recount is limited to the evidence offered to the board of canvassers during the recount, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence.30 Put another way, a party who fails to object or offer evidence of a defect or irregularity during the recount waives the right to object or offer such evidence in court, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence or the evidence is newly discovered.
In voting districts that span more than one judicial district, an appeal of the circuit court’s decision is assigned to District 4 of the Wisconsin Court of Appeals.31"
Yeah. Donald Driver. As great as Bart Starr and Brett Favre combined.
It's Kleptoberg.
"Although I shouldn't be, I am surprised the level of anger over a recount that she is entitled to under state law. The right would be screaming bloody murder if the situation was reversed."
Which situation? The right gets upset when boxes of ballots are found a day later in the trunk of a car or behind a filing cabinet. And then we fuss and ask the people who are supposed to investigate voter fraud to look into it and then the left screams bloodly murder about illegally interfering with US attorneys because some elected Republican says to them "Hey, did you investigate that to see what the deal was?", which is apparently right up there with eating babies, never mind that it's their job to initiate investigations and a conclusion that there wasn't fraud, only a misplaced box of ballots, is an acceptable conclusion.
People aren't *angry* garage. They just think that Kloppenburg, who was confident enough to declare victory with a couple hundred vote margin and who now turns around to say that a many thousands of votes margin needs double-checking is, well, a jerk.
And the count she is legally entitled to is *still* her decision, and some people realize that, as opposed to being magic free government money, the money is real.
Considering that the whole brouhaha surrounding the election she participated in was a conflict between people who think government money is magic and free and people who think that government money is wrung from the sweat of citizens... being annoyed at the needless expense is not surprising.
So it's a while to go before we can definitively, finally say to Kloppy: LOSER!
No, she's already a LOSER!! It'll just be a while until she officially loses the election. Just because it's your right doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
I'm having trouble posting this...
Have you guys been paying no attention to the behavior of the democrats in your State? The ones who played hardball by hiding in Illinois to avoid a vote?
Be very, very wary of the appeals to the recount.
From Recounts: Balancing the finality of an election against the will of the electorate
"Appealing recount results to the circuit court
A candidate has the right to appeal the results of a recount in circuit court within five days of the completion of the recount.25 If the recount is held in a voting district that spans more than one judicial district, the chief justice of the Wisconsin Supreme Court appoints a circuit court judge (a reserve judge, if available) to hear the appeal.26 Any appeal of the recount results is heard by the circuit court judge, without a jury, in an expedited fashion.27
An appeal of a recount is the only means by which a candidate may go to court to contest any part of the recount or election. A party appealing the recount results must establish, through evidence, that: 1) a mistake, fraud, defect, irregularity, or illegality was committed during the voting, canvassing, or recount process; 2) the offending conduct led to votes being improperly included in or excluded from the election results; and (3) the number of disputed votes exceeds the margin by which the prevailing candidate won.28
The circuit court will affirm the county board of canvassers’ determination, unless the court concludes that the board of canvassers erroneously interpreted state law or any finding of fact by the board is not supported by substantial evidence.29
The court’s review of the recount is limited to the evidence offered to the board of canvassers during the recount, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence.30 Put another way, a party who fails to object or offer evidence of a defect or irregularity during the recount waives the right to object or offer such evidence in court, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence or the evidence is newly discovered.
In voting districts that span more than one judicial district, an appeal of the circuit court’s decision is assigned to District 4 of the Wisconsin Court of Appeals.31"
Okay, what are the ballot counting rules when you get to Milwaukee's 18,000 votes for kloppenhanger ... where there are no other votes for anyone else!
will this be forgotten?
How can one person get 18,000 votes in the TOTALS column without creating a shortfall for the mayor's slot?
What if a ballot contains ONLY ONE CHECK MARK? Maybe, it's just a speck of dust? If you eliminated them all ... as you would if they were hanging chads ...
Wouldn't that give Prosser a 25,000 point lead?
Oh, yeah. And, what if they arrest the lady from Wakesha ... with the computer that she used ... that had her own software? Can this be the gimmick of denying all those voters their votes?
What was this separate computer business all about?
And, if we're talking a criminal case ... ahead ... isn't the defense entitled to DISCOVERY?
How many years will this take to resolve? (Isn't Governor Blago still on trial?)
Is this going to provoke a backlash ginning up turnout in the recall election(s), if and when?
I voted for "she shouldn't and she won't". Don't I feel silly.
I am surprised the level of anger over a recount that she is entitled to under state law.
Well, garage, one day you will understand that "morally and ethically right" and "government-approved" are not synonymous terms.
Until then, I imagine you'll keep being periodically surprised by this sort of thing.
Having lots of trouble posting this...
Have you guys been paying no attention to the behavior of the democrats in your State? The ones who played hardball by hiding in Illinois to avoid a vote?
Be very, very wary of the appeals to the recount.
From Recounts: Balancing the finality of an election against the will of the electorate
Appealing recount results to the circuit court
A candidate has the right to appeal the results of a recount in circuit court within five days of the completion of the recount.25 If the recount is held in a voting district that spans more than one judicial district, the chief justice of the Wisconsin Supreme Court appoints a circuit court judge (a reserve judge, if available) to hear the appeal.26 Any appeal of the recount results is heard by the circuit court judge, without a jury, in an expedited fashion.27
An appeal of a recount is the only means by which a candidate may go to court to contest any part of the recount or election.
...
The court’s review of the recount is limited to the evidence offered to the board of canvassers during the recount, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence.30 Put another way, a party who fails to object or offer evidence of a defect or irregularity during the recount waives the right to object or offer such evidence in court, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence or the evidence is newly discovered.
In voting districts that span more than one judicial district, an appeal of the circuit court’s decision is assigned to District 4 of the Wisconsin Court of Appeals.31"
What's District 4 is the court that punted on the appeal to Sumi's TRO, right?
What's their general reputation?
Sorry... I missed the memo about me coming into the comments here and bringing you the scoop. If I got anything interesting (doubtful), we'll post a short video later.
But I see that you all heard the news. I think Hazy Dave's take @ 4:19 hits the nail on the head or the clip on the klopp or something like that. Delay delay delay is the apparent working strategy of the anti-Walker/Prosser pro-public union colluding Democrats. As David Blaska said (something like), this is not what democracy looks like but it is what the Democrats look like.
@Synova,
Nice summation.
Have you guys been paying no attention to the behavior of the democrats in your State? The ones who played hardball by hiding in Illinois to avoid a vote?
Be very, very wary of the appeals to the recount.
From Recounts: Balancing the finality of an election against the will of the electorate
"Appealing recount results to the circuit court
A candidate has the right to appeal the results of a recount in circuit court within five days of the completion of the recount.25 If the recount is held in a voting district that spans more than one judicial district, the chief justice of the Wisconsin Supreme Court appoints a circuit court judge (a reserve judge, if available) to hear the appeal.26 Any appeal of the recount results is heard by the circuit court judge, without a jury, in an expedited fashion.27
An appeal of a recount is the only means by which a candidate may go to court to contest any part of the recount or election. A party appealing the recount results must establish, through evidence, that: 1) a mistake, fraud, defect, irregularity, or illegality was committed during the voting, canvassing, or recount process; 2) the offending conduct led to votes being improperly included in or excluded from the election results; and (3) the number of disputed votes exceeds the margin by which the prevailing candidate won.28
The circuit court will affirm the county board of canvassers’ determination, unless the court concludes that the board of canvassers erroneously interpreted state law or any finding of fact by the board is not supported by substantial evidence.29
The court’s review of the recount is limited to the evidence offered to the board of canvassers during the recount, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence.30 Put another way, a party who fails to object or offer evidence of a defect or irregularity during the recount waives the right to object or offer such evidence in court, unless the evidence was unavailable to a party exercising due diligence or the evidence is newly discovered.
In voting districts that span more than one judicial district, an appeal of the circuit court’s decision is assigned to District 4 of the Wisconsin Court of Appeals.31"
d
Why are people so upset about this? I think she is foolish to do it - that there is more for the Democrats in WI to lose than to gain - but she definitely has the right to do it.
If there truly were a problem with the election, and if she really won it, it would be best for her to take office.
If she didn't win, this isn't going to make a difference and it may damp some of the howling by Democrats.
There is also the possibility that there really are some "irregularities" in Milwaukee. This may be an opportunity for the WI GOP to investigate those.
At a bare minimum, it sets the precedent for a GOP candidate to do the same in a future close election. One half of one percent is not that much margin. These laws protect voters, in the end.
If she wants to hassle Waukesha, it opens the door for the GOP to hassle Milwaukee.
Seriously - is there an honest, ethical Democrat anywhere in Wisconsin? Just one who has the backbone/cajones to stand up and say that something like this is questionable at best?
Thanks Klopp!
-signed
Wisconsin voter and taxpayer.
I agree with Garage: she has a right under the law to ask for a recount and she did.
That being said, the sooner this absurd scenario is over, the better. There's work to be done!
A stupid woman, run by a bunch of stupid men. Some feminist she turned out to be.
I am surprised the level of anger over a recount that she is entitled to under state law.
Under the law, I'm entitled to sue you for almost anything as often as I want, call you the most vile and disgusting names (all of which would fit), drive in front of you at 10 miles an hour below the speed limit, take my sweet time in the check out lane at the grocery store while you're waiting behind me. I suppose none of that would arouse any anger in you as I'm entitled to those actions under the law.
I agree with Garage: she has a right under the law to ask for a recount and she did.
And everyone has the right under the law to be angry about her action. Quit thinking like a kindergartener.
I am delighted and not surprised at the outcome. Oh, how I wish I owned a business in Wisconsin!! It is apparent that an easy improvement in its value would be to relocate, pronto, to anywhere. Presto value, instant value. Please understand that you are making utter fools of yourselves and are not presenting a picture of sanity. Good luck with attracting businesses to your chilly state.
@Chase, may we assume that you've asked a rhetorical question?
Why are people so upset about this? I think she is foolish to do it - that there is more for the Democrats in WI to lose than to gain - but she definitely has the right to do it.
The recount itself isn't anger-inducing -- just dumb. It drags out her loss a little longer.
The anger-inducing bit is the calls for Nickolaus to be investigated. There is exactly zero evidence of wrongdoing by Nickolaus -- no reason at all for any rational person to think Nickolaus did anything wrong. Kloppenburg wants Nickolaus harassed by the government not because she honestly thinks Nickolaus broke the law, but because Nickolaus' mistake indirectly led to Kloppenburg humiliating herself with that smug election-night victory speech.
It is petty and wrong. Kloppenburg should be ashamed of herself -- but of course if she was capable of shame she wouldn't have run on an "I'll overturn the budget bill" platform.
That is one scary looking woman. No wonder she wants a recount !
I saw the original Frankenstein with Boris Karloff on Turner Classic Movies the other night.
I wonder of they will ever make one with a female lead?
Just a random thought.
I wonder of they will ever make one with a female lead?
They did! Bride Of Frankenstein (1935) starring Elsa Lanchester.
Bride of Frankenunit (2011)
I watched part of the video and felt like I was back in kindergarten class. Is that how the lady always sounds?
Wasn't Garage et. al. calling for Prosser to concede graciously when the press eroneously reported he'd lost by all of a couple of hundred votes?
I thing Special K might have got into some of that "I hope he has the grace to concede" goodness, but maybe I misremember. She was pretty darned sure that the same couple of hundred votes meant that she'd won, period.
The Left is proud of being flexible. I guess in the same way autofelatio specialists are.
It is petty and wrong. Kloppenburg should be ashamed of herself -- but of course if she was capable of shame she wouldn't have run on an "I'll overturn the budget bill" platform.
You and every other right winger would be demanding a recount and you know it. Nickolaus has a history of electoral shenanigans going back 10 yrs. She was granted immunity to testify about her role as a computer analyst for the Republican caucus [under investigation] for using state resources to secretly run campaigns. Prosser was her then boss. So, save it. You don't want a recount because it's possible they will uncover fraud.
The demonization of this Nickolaus person is just plain petty. It's thuggery.
We know what happened. It's been cleared up.
I think a recount is justified, barely. It's extreme, but sure... some people are suspicious, and it's close enough to be covered legally. It ruins Klopp's political career, as it shows poor discretion, but that's her right.
The demonization of the clerk is way out of line. Instigating paranoia and hatred is not helping WI. haven't they figured this out yet?
"You and every other right winger would be demanding a recount and you know it. Nickolaus has a history of electoral shenanigans going back 10 yrs."
lie and lie
Demonizing someone for no good reason.
Garage: I am so happy about this recount because it means you are going to lose again. This is getting to be fun as well as funny. Time after time you are losing and time after time believing you are going to win. We have the evil Koch Brothers to rely on and they, Garage, will never let this recount result in an outcome that will annoy the evil Koch Brothers. We have the evil Koch Brothers and you have what, poor people? HAHAHAHAHa I just pray there is a chance for her to demand a recount of the recount.
=================
MaxedOutMama said...
Why are people so upset about this?
=================
Uh, ... maybe because we're the ones stuck with the bill for this fishing expedition?
No, "fishing expedition" is wrong. In a fishing expedition you have some expectation of catching a fish.
This is taxpayer-funded witch hunt.
Well, given that Kloppenklopper has already accepted the nomination ... Given that the AP reported her acceptance speech ... Why isn't this being investigated?
If running out and saying "I won, I won" counts for points, I'm lining up to claim I won the next big lottery.
What? I'd have to show a ticket? But my record is spotless. (I've never bought one.)
I don't accept the wasteful expense issue. Blame the legislature if you have a problem with that. They say you can get a state funded recount if the margin is this low. If the people didn't want that, then I guess they better withdraw that offer.
No, Klopp is OK by me for the recount. Just follow the law, and don't be a scumbag about stealing people's vote like Al Gore or Joe Miller. Fight honest and legal.
Oh, blah.
At least the people who (baselessly) suspect fraud will be placated. It's important that voters have confidence in the fairness of elections, so that will be good.
The bad, dark horse possibility: They've figured out a way to cheat the recount. We'll see.
The Grand Inquisitor said...
I don't accept the wasteful expense issue. Blame the legislature if you have a problem with that
========
Sure, I'll blame the legislature for setting the cutoff so high.
But I'll also be naive here and say that I sure would like to see some civic responsibility on the part of the people involved and some acknowledgment that they are throwing away OUR money on this nonsense.
Freeman Hunt said...
At least the people who (baselessly) suspect fraud will be placated.
-----------
No they won't. That group is still claiming two weeks later that Nichols found the ballots two days after the election. Do you think those guys give a fig about facts?
I predict her loss will get larger. If not in votes, at least in the public memory. Either way I'm for it.
You don't want a recount because it's possible they will uncover fraud.
Yeah, that's it. We're afraid they'll find out Nickolaus fabricated an entire town's votes.
If we are going to have a recount let's take a hard look at every vote regarding who voted. Not only will we have Prosser for 10 more years, but voter ID forever.
You don't want a recount because it's possible they will uncover fraud.
The only reason for a conservative to want a recount is to uncover the fraud. (Milwaukee being one of the very few places in America to achieve a better than 100% turnout in an election.)
Voter ID passed Dem state legislatures three times and Doyle vetoed three times.
It could probably pass again (with an added bonus of no more same day registrations) and NOT be vetoed this time.
wv: killow
You and every other right winger would be demanding a recount and you know it.
Garage, what are you babbling about? I already said I wasn't angry about the recount.
Nickolaus has a history of electoral shenanigans going back 10 yrs.
You know that's a lie, and I know that's a lie -- so why say it? Do you just like typing?
There's no evidence of past illegal activity, which is why Democrats had no problem with her until she embarrassed their pet judge. There's no evidence of illegal activity in the latest election, either.
Honestly, some days I wonder if there is any way to live peacefully in the same nation with your sort. You think the government is best used as a weapon to punish your political enemies.
gm: Nickolaus has a history of electoral shenanigans going back 10 yrs.
Can you explain how she is relevant? The totals were reported by Brookfield city on election night.
Nickolaus is borderline irrelevant.
Kloppenburg is most likely not the small-time opportunist as she appears, but I believe she's being manipulated by the seasoned corps of Democrat election-benders who have 'triumphed' in Minnesota and Seattle.
They will spend the recount money instead on hiring trial lawyers and busing in rentamobs to provide a two-week media spectacle featuring the 'outrage' of the day for the Democrat allies in the press and TV.
Win or lose, this coming caterwaul will serve as free negative campaigning against Governor Walker and of course Judge Prosser, and any other opponents of public 'service' unions.
And without the Republicans shelling out big bucks for smart unsleeping poll-watchers, there's a chance that these experienced election-reversers may even set a new world record of 7,316 votes upended. Surely that's one of the goals - watch the MSM report on it.
It is going to be a long, difficult process with lawyers fighting over ballots and the way this is tabulated.
Oh, no, you guys don't have hanging chads, do you? She claims "wide-spread" anomalies such as under-votes in Milwaukee and Racine. This is shaping up to be deja vu Bush/Gore all over again.
Kloppy says she's still the winner, but doesn't know who will end up being the victor.
So, Altmeade, will you be attending the recounts?
"I agree with Garage: she has a right under the law to ask for a recount and she did.
And everyone has the right under the law to be angry about her action. Quit thinking like a kindergartener."
I'm the one acting like a kindergartener? You're the one that's throwing a tantrum over the fact that she asked for a recount! (And yes, you have a right to be angry about it. Good to see you exercising your rights!)
Suki
She claims "wide-spread" anomalies such as under-votes in Milwaukee and Racine
Those can be countered by the 18K votes for her and her alone in Dane. No other offices on the ballot, no similar ballots for Prosser.
wv: reelti - Klop's gotta face reelti.
You're the one that's throwing a tantrum over the fact that she asked for a recount!
Show me my tantrum. I've shown you your childish reasoning. Although, I must admit, it's closer to Piaget's Concrete Operational Stage (7-12 years old) than kindergarten.
As I stated earlier, acting within your rights is not always the right thing to do. Kloppendale is taking the selfis, "it's all about be route" you see so often from people with a great sense of entitlement. A sense that is encouraged in leftie thought. She's entitled, how dare anyone or anything deny her!
@garage:
I am surprised the level of anger over a recount that she is entitled to under state law.
Angry? Hell, I'm laughing my ass off at Wisconsin! This is the damnest thing I've seen in politics in a long damn while. There's like this corridor of pure, bright crazy that runs from Chicago to Madison populated by The People The 60's Forgot. They get wound up on this shit because of their feelings of supreme self importance in the rest of our affairs.
Klopp has the right, and more power to her. Recount every vote. Make sure every vote came from someone qualified to vote in the State of Wisconsin (in my dreams!). Shell out the bucks for it, while both parties pour more money and resources into the maelstrom. Wring it dry, garage, and at the end of the day, the whole thing won't matter one damn bit.
But when she loses again, will you just shut the fuck up about the whole thing? Finally? Please? It gets so damn tedious reading you blather on about nonexistent conspiracies.
Politico chart showing just how insurmountable this is for Kloppenberg.
wv: coitt
You know that's a lie, and I know that's a lie -- so why say it? Do you just like typing?
I didn't lie about anything, and I you know how to google, and perhaps you did. What was the lie?
The system is a joke, elected county officals in charge of easily hacked voting machines are a joke, elected judges are a joke. I'd be disapointed if righties didn't put a stink and demand a recount under the same circumstances.
Garage,
Same day registration is a joke. No voter ID is a joke.
wv: corsh
What a shame.
I have been in Wisconsin off and on for the past year and I am ready to leave. I will be returning to fabulousness within the next month.
The place is toxic. And most importantly the people are not hot. I can honestly say I have not seen one hottie in the time I have spent here. How depressing.
I will be summering in Ptown and Maine and back to India to pick up my husband and then back to beautiful and fab Cambridge.
Garage, actually there is no place in Wisconsin called Brookfield. There used to be a Brookfield prison and the Republicans have been posting tens of thousands of votes under that name in every election since 1946. That is how McCarthy got elected, and that Nazi Lee Dreyfuss.
I miss hot exotic colored people.
David,
It's either that or all the animals in the Milwaukee County Zoo.
wv: consists - the vote total consists of all the animals in the zoo.
Same day registration is a joke. No voter ID is a joke.
Supporting same day registration and no voter ID is de facto proof of supporting voter fraud.
I find myself agreeing with Garage insofar as he disdains elected judges. I would prefer long, single term appointments, 12, maybe 15 years, non-renewable.
Having said that, I'll politely ask Garage: What is behind your name? I like a cool garage as much as the next guy, but the one I have was built for a single woman who never considered that a man with a family would buy the house.
She moved only a short distance, married, and built a new garage with her husband. In our neighborhood, it is known as the Garage Mahal. So do you have a real cool garage?
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