Althouse: "Grand Old corporate Prostitution ring."

१८ एप्रिल, २०११

"Grand Old corporate Prostitution ring."

Clever wordplay at the anti-Tea Party protest Saturday.

२५१ टिप्पण्या:

«सर्वात जुने ‹थोडे जुने 251 पैकी 201 – 251

Brian Brown म्हणाले...: Matt said...

Jay

Wait, so in the tiny enclave you live in it is only millionaires who get social security checks and Medicare cards?

Matt,
wait, so the silly make believe unicorn land you live in, if people don't get social security and Medicare they will die?

Isn't this fun?; १८/४/११, ६:१७ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: The same tweak today would do wonders.

Something you couldn't possibly prove.; १८/४/११, ६:१८ PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: I can't believe a tax thread has overtaken a Sarah Palin thread in length, but I'll do my part!; १८/४/११, ६:२२ PM
Matt म्हणाले...: Jay said...

if people don't get social security and Medicare they will die?

Yes. Period.

You really are sheltered aren't you? There are millions living in the US who rely on Social Security to eat, pay taxes, pay morgages etc. I know a good number of them. This is common sense, dude.

Please, don't be that naive. Seriously.

Now, I agree Social Security and Medicare need fixing. And maybe that means cutting them back, raising retirment age some point in the future. But not eliminating them.; १८/४/११, ६:२३ PM
Lamar म्हणाले...: @Matt

And yes the marginal tax rate went down under Reagan. But he signed into law a very minor tweak to FICA taxes. So minor in fact no one cared! The same tweak today would do wonders.

What minor tweak are you referring to?; १८/४/११, ६:२५ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: garage admitting that the wealthy pay a greater share of taxes doesn't square with the wealthy or even middle class being among the shocking 45% who pay no Federal income tax. So could it be that more poor are freeloading than ever before? Just going out on a limb here, thinking out loud....

The wealthy [and even middle class??] are in the class of people that shockingly paying no federal income taxes? LOLZ buddy. That was truly funny. I should have responded to Shoemaker like I originally planned. He had a good plan on taxing GE, who is in the -60% tax bracket.

Pro Tip: When someone is paying more income taxes, that means they are making more income, if the marginal tax rates remain the same, which they have.

We're rapidly becoming a third world workforce like China or India, and it's by design. Look at IKEA, and the plant in Virginia that wants to unionize. IKEA hired a union busting powerhouse law firm to crush it. It's big news in Sweden, who's worker enjoy a union and good benefits, but not here where they start @ $8.00 /hour. That's why 45% aren't required to pay any federal income tax. Those jobs don't pay shit and there is no middle class anymore.; १८/४/११, ६:२६ PM
Jeremy म्हणाले...: Jay - "How would you know?"

Same question to you: "How would you know any different?"; १८/४/११, ६:२७ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: Yes. Period.

Hilarious.

Is that all people on Medicare?

Or just like 2? Or 200,000?

There are millions living in the US who rely on Social Security to eat, pay taxes, pay morgages etc.

Which of course does not mean if they didn't get social security they would die.

Are you really this dumb?

Really?; १८/४/११, ६:२९ PM
Lamar म्हणाले...: @garage

Those jobs don't pay shit and there is no middle class anymore.

So what is the solution in your opinion?; १८/४/११, ६:३० PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: Matt,

I think Jay's point is something different. Certainly people are dependent on SS and Medicare today, because they adapted their planning to the existence of those programs. In a world where private savings and individual insurance coverage were the norm, people would adapt their planning accordingly.

None of that means that we ought to pull the rug out from under people who have counted on these programs. Likewise, we shouldn't pretend that either SS or Medicare can be continued as they are now.; १८/४/११, ६:३१ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: This is common sense, dude.

Actually, it isn't.

It is you make an emotive assertion.

Since the US has existed for a longer period of time without social security, than with it, how did any old people live?

Don't worry, you can't answer, I know...; १८/४/११, ६:३१ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: and there is no middle class anymore.

And here I thought all those "working class" teachers storming the Wisconsin State House were middle class!!!; १८/४/११, ६:३२ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: I agree Social Security and Medicare need fixing. And maybe that means cutting them back,

Aw, how gratuitous of you!

Maybe we'll cut back just a tiny, tiny inch!

Thanks Matt!; १८/४/११, ६:३३ PM
Jeremy म्हणाले...: Lamar - The FICA tax rate went up during Reagan's tenure from about 6.7 to about 7%.

And for the self-employed, it went from 9.35% to 14%.

Between those taxes being raised and overal inflation...pretty big overall gains.; १८/४/११, ६:३३ PM
Matt म्हणाले...: Jay

Wow, you are dumb.
Elderly people prior to Social Security didn't live as long. But more importantly they lived with their extended family who paid for their healthcare and their daily needs.

I guess you have no problem with that. Or your friends on Jupiter Island. Or maybe you just live in Beverly Hills and assume everyone is rich like you are.; १८/४/११, ६:३६ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: Chip S. said...

Matt,

I think Jay's point is something different

Chip S,

My point would be that were are in a dire fiscal crisis and Medicare, Medicaid, SSI, and Social Security take up every penny of federal tax revenue and then some.

Therefore, we need to cut expenditures on these programs. How?

The immediate step should be to means test them, and for those in a very, very high income bracket, said means testing would begin on Jan 1, 2012.

It would then phase in, and the phasing would touch those who earned say $1 million plus in their last year of work rather soon.

After that, you start phasing in a more aggressive raising of the retirement age.

After that, you start allowing people to opt out of the program...; १८/४/११, ६:३६ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: But more importantly they lived with their extended family who paid for their healthcare and their daily needs.

And this is a problem how _____?; १८/४/११, ६:३७ PM
Methadras म्हणाले...: I don't understand why the left and leftards in general have this deep seated desire for the lamest sloganeering on earth. Do you leftists really think you are being deep, meaningful, and profound when you clown this stuff together?; १८/४/११, ६:३७ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: But more importantly they lived with their extended family who paid for their healthcare and their daily needs.

I guess you have no problem with that

Of course I don't have a problem with that.

I have no obligation to take care of you or your parents in old age.

Period.; १८/४/११, ६:३८ PM
Matt म्हणाले...: Chip S.

Thanks for a sensible answer. But Jay actually wants SS and Medicare to end today. He is insane.

I think you would agree that not everyone can plan so well for retirment. And not because they are ill equipped with financial sense but because earning enough to save for maybe a 20 to 30 year retirement these days is not so easy for everyone. Social Security is a safety net that is needed.

Sure, it needs to be fixed. This may mean less benefits for people. Obviously. That is not my issue. My issue is the smart ass idiots like Jay who have no clue how people outside of his own world live.; १८/४/११, ६:४२ PM
Dust Bunny Queen म्हणाले...: You're talking about "income taxes" as if they are the ONLY taxes one pays.

Show me where those who are not required to pay income taxes do not pay payroll, sales and other taxes throughout the year.

Back atch butt boy.

You talk as if those in the top income tax brackets who pay the MAJORITY OF ALL INCOME TAXES COLLECTED don't also pay sales tax, payroll tax, fica, medicare, property tax, capital gains tax etc etc etc

What level will it ever be enough for the top income earners to pay. 90%? 100%? Maybe 130%....yeah....that's it.; १८/४/११, ६:४३ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: @Garage: Do you even know anybody who pays no income tax? I do, and they are on the poor end of the scale.; १८/४/११, ६:५१ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: Sure, it needs to be fixed

Don't buy into this bullshit. Big banks want their cut to run the trillions that come in, instead of the government. That's it.; १८/४/११, ६:५२ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: @Garage: Do you even know anybody who pays no income tax? I do, and they are on the poor end of the scale.

Yes I do. I guess I misinterpreted your post then.; १८/४/११, ६:५४ PM
Lamar म्हणाले...: @Jeremy

Between those taxes being raised and overal inflation...pretty big overall gains.

I agree, they should have reformed Social Security then instead of using higher FICA taxes as a new revenue source.; १८/४/११, ६:५६ PM
Elliott A म्हणाले...: While there is not "T" in democracy, there is also no "D" in Republic. Don't they teach basic Government in Wisconsin? Ann needs to do a little perusal of the curriculum to see what these people are actually being taught. These people actually believe they live in a Democracy!; १८/४/११, ७:०६ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: But Jay actually wants SS and Medicare to end today.

Considering they are unsustainable, yeah, they should end.

He is insane.

Um, I'm not the one pretending that Social Security saves lives.

My issue is the smart ass idiots like Jay who have no clue how people outside of his own world live.

Uh, I'm on the one who believes unsustainable social programs can go in in perpetuity.; १८/४/११, ७:०८ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: Don't buy into this bullshit. Big banks want their cut to run the trillions that come in, instead of the government. That's it.

Social Security is in deficit and has an unfunded liability of $50 trillion.

I think you should go on pretending there isn't a problem.

Medicare fraud runs about $60 billion a year.

Clown.; १८/४/११, ७:१० PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: But Jay actually wants SS and Medicare to end today.

I'll make you a deal.

Let me opt out of the taxes starting Jan 1 and I'll never collect a penny from either.

Also, give that same deal to anyone else who wants it, and means test both.

I bet you can't agree to that though, because it burst your silly little "I help old people" bubble.; १८/४/११, ७:११ PM
damikesc म्हणाले...: Where is the "clever" part of the word play?; १८/४/११, ७:१४ PM
damikesc म्हणाले...: Obama's deficit reduction plan involves two trillion in tax hikes.

The rich can't be hit hard enough to absorb all of them.

Guess who is going to get raped?

I bet it'll be people making less than $250,000 a year --- who Obama promised wouldn't be touched.

...before he exploded the deficit.; १८/४/११, ७:१६ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: I love how the silly leftists just say "raise taxes" as some sort of answer.

Note that:
Medicare part A has an unfunded liability of $36.4 trillion in perpetuity. The payroll tax rate would have to rise by 6.5% immediately to cover that shortfall or 2.8% of GDP forever. Thus every taxpayer would face a 28% increase in their income taxes if general revenues were used to pay future Medicare part A benefits that have been promised over and above revenues from the Medicare tax.

I can't wait to see jeremy and garage cheering for middle class tax hikes to pay for this...; १८/४/११, ७:२० PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: Social Security is in deficit and has an unfunded liability of $50 trillion.

False.

Medicare fraud runs about $60 billion a year.

Sounds about right. Ask Rick Scott Governor of Florida. Cut the fraud billing practices of vampire companies like what he ran and the program looks a lot better.; १८/४/११, ७:२१ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: False.

Um, that isn't a response.

Ask Rick Scott Governor of Florida.

Uh, he's been in office for a few months.

Further, you still can't bring yourself to admit there is a problem.; १८/४/११, ७:२८ PM
Lamar म्हणाले...: @garage

Social Security is in deficit and has an unfunded liability of $50 trillion.

False.

Actually I think that is pretty close:

At the federal level, Social Security and Medicare face unfunded obligations of $66 trillion. Moreover, state and local governments also face substantial unfunded pension obligations.

http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/tg1047.aspx; १८/४/११, ७:२८ PM
Brian Brown म्हणाले...: False.

Um, ok:

WASHINGTON – Social Security will post nearly $600 billion in deficits over the next decade as the economy struggles to recover and millions of baby boomers stand at the brink of retirement, according to new congressional projections.

This year alone, Social Security is projected to collect $45 billion less in payroll taxes than it pays out in retirement, disability and survivor benefits, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday. That figure swells to $130 billion when a new one-year cut in payroll taxes is included, though Congress has promised to repay any lost revenue from the tax cut.

Last year, Social Security posted its first deficit since the program was last overhauled in the 1980s. The CBO said at the time that Social Security would post surpluses for a few more years before permanently slipping into deficits in 2016.

Sorry bozo, but you losers won't get to write history...; १८/४/११, ७:३० PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: gm quoted, "Social Security is in deficit and has an unfunded liability of $50 trillion."

and replied

False.

Technically correct. Social Security's unfunded liability is "only" $15 trillion. Of course, that includes the $2.5 trillion "trust fund" as an asset, when in fact it's simply a claim on future income-tax revenue and so not a net asset at all to the federal government as a single entity.

Medicare's unfunded liability adds another $36 trillion to all that, so the combined unfunded liability properly accounted for the two old-age programs is actually $53 trillion.; १८/४/११, ७:३५ PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: @Lamar, My figures were from last year, so your numbers indicate that things have gotten a lot worse in just one year. I doubt that subsequent revised estimates will get better, either.

But really, it's all the fault of the big banks!; १८/४/११, ७:३९ PM
Phil 314 म्हणाले...: None of that means that we ought to pull the rug out from under people who have counted on these programs. Likewise, we shouldn't pretend that either SS or Medicare can be continued as they are now.

Probably why Ryan suggested no change for those over 55. Also probably why most reform recommendations have included a raising of the retirement age to 67? 69? 70?

Garage;
Please don't start the "there is no deficit in SS BS again". I guess it makes you feel good but must you deny basic math and go for "magical thinking"

I can't be out of money, I still have checks in my check book

Garage, we're going to have to start calling you Wimpy.; १८/४/११, ७:४० PM
Phil 314 म्हणाले...: This:

the fact that many Americans just do not make enough money to require the payment of "income taxes."

combined with this:

The Internal Revenue Service tracks the tax returns with the 400 highest adjusted gross incomes each year. The average income on those returns in 2007, the latest year for IRS data, was nearly $345 million.

Their average federal income tax rate was 17 percent, DOWN from 26 percent in 1992.

(and with this:that you feel people should be paying more taxes? Or that they shouldn't be allowed deductions? Or is it that you just think Americans are getting away with something? thrown in for extra spice)

really frames the liberal viewpoint:

Some people don't make enough money to pay taxes. They deserve all of the money they earn. And still we don't have enough money to pay for all of the important and vital things we need to do. Other people make too much money and keep too much of it. They're taking money from US that should be spent to do the all the important and vital things our government needs to do.

Finally there are a lot of people in the middle who pay some taxes. Now they deserve every break they get.

Or the short version: If you get more, I get less. That's not fair. I want more.

This really does fit a lot of behavioral economic studies. We'd prefer to have less if it means you're getting less too We don't like people getting too far ahead.; १८/४/११, ७:५४ PM
Unknown म्हणाले...: Jeremy said...

edu-dolt -

A "small business" is generally defined as one with less than 500 employees...and about 95% of the businesses in America fit the bill...so eveidently 95% of American businessmen are "wealthy?"

And you think that the top 400 wealthiest Americans are part of this "small businesse" thingie?

Small businesses can easily run better than $250,000 in assets and many do. The average small manufacturer, as an example, clears the quarter mil mark, according to the IRS.

As for the top 400, they provide even more jobs.

And pay 40% of the taxes.

And you should be careful about using words like dolt.

You show yourself to be one with your condescension, foul mouth, lack of self-control, and mindless parroting of Little Zero's and Kos' talking points.

That from someone who probably has more education.

How can I tell?

I don't have to stoop to your level to rebut you.; १८/४/११, ७:५६ PM
bagoh20 म्हणाले...: The U.S. military may cost a lot of dollars, but in GDP terms, which is what matters, it's near an all-time low. Sure, we could save some money there, but it's not the problem - not by a long shot.

Miltary Spend/GDP; १८/४/११, ७:५८ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: Garage;
Please don't start the "there is no deficit in SS BS again". I guess it makes you feel good but must you deny basic math and go for "magical thinking"

Google "Trustees Report SSA Gov"

If you think they are lying, let us know.; १८/४/११, ८:०४ PM
garage mahal म्हणाले...: Further, you still can't bring yourself to admit there is a problem.

Actually, I can! And will. Right here and right now! *triumphant horns*; १८/४/११, ८:०६ PM
Chip S. म्हणाले...: gm, Perhaps you do not understand the difference between an annual deficit and the present value of unfunded future liabilities.

If you'd bothered to click on the link I provided you'd have seen that the figures I posted are from the SSA Trustees' Report.; १८/४/११, ८:१४ PM
Known Unknown म्हणाले...: I didn't realize this, but apparently I am in the top 10% of all taxpayers.

Funny, I don't feel so "rich."; १८/४/११, ९:२० PM
furious_a म्हणाले...: Here's pithy:

Sinn Fein-Political Wing of the IRA
Democrats-Political Wing of the IRS

Heh.; १८/४/११, १०:०८ PM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: I've asked you several times to give me a single sentence that, by itself, is enough to show sarcasm.

Here's one: "Everyone know not to consider whether a single-sentence blogpost is sarcastic or not.

Shall I continue with the rest of the first 10 examples that occurred to me off the top of my head?

(Plus: You DO read Althouse regularly, right?); १८/४/११, ११:४२ PM
Phil 314 म्हणाले...: Well garage I read the report and I still see long term serious problems. Maybe you're reading it differently.

I won't even bother with their assessment of Medicare (since it ignores the "deferred" doc fix.); १८/४/११, ११:४५ PM
Stan म्हणाले...: Clever?!

DEMs

Deluded, emotional, miscreants

Oh boy. isn't this fun.

Given that it is the Democrats who are far more beholden to special interest funding and thus, tend to prostitute themselves more often, it's more a case of projection.; १९/४/११, १२:०२ PM
Stan म्हणाले...: Ann,

Democrats love to say that the GOP is the party of the rich, even though the facts are clearly otherwise. They love to say that Corporations favor the GOP, even though their support is split pretty evenly (lots of big businesses love big govt).

Do you think Democrats say these things because they aren't smart enough to know better? Or because they know better and they're lying?; १९/४/११, २:३५ PM