Plainly stated:
"When Senator Clinton says a mandate, it's not a mandate on government to provide health insurance. It's a mandate on individuals to purchase it. Massachusetts has a mandate right now. They have exempted 20% of the uninsured because they've concluded that that 20% can't afford it. In some cases, there are people who are paying fines and still can't afford it so now they're worse off than they were. They don't have health insurance and they're paying a fine. In order for you to force people to get health insurance, you've got to have a very harsh, stiff penalty."
I voted for him, not her. He was so sensible and pragmatic, considering all the details, so carefully and intelligently. He wasn't an ideologue. Where is the guy I voted for?
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224 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»where? he never existed. you voted for the bait.
The guy you voted for is a liar.
Ditto kathleen and allenS
uh huh. and the "every bill will sit on my desk for 5 days before it's signed so the American people can see what it's about" promise? that promise can only be kept in a "perfect world" too I suppose.
Massatoosits? LOL. Nice Barry.
He's so full of shit. Plenty smart people bought his line of crap. We can see how intellectuals have supported some serious shitbags in the past, and present, and will in the future.
The word(s) you're looking for are:
CON MAN
He's been training all his life to be the best con man ever.
Maybe he is.
We need a "How Obama Suckered Me" post.
"Plenty smart people bought his crap"
Smart is as smart does. Maybe smart should read more history and gain some maturity before voting.
He's still sitting in the Rev. Wright's church listening to Black Liberation theology, figuratively speaking.
Professor--if you bought that shit, then let me advise you to not respond to the Minister of Finance in Nigeria who has a bundle of cash--You do epitomize the academics in Buckley famous gibe about the boston phone book.
Get out of academe, get a real job, and see what life is like in the real world--Will do you a world of good.
Did you really think that if Obama couldn't get a public option he was going to pick the status quo? You really thought a Democrat wouldn't save GM? You really thought there wouldn't be a giant stimulus package? Etc. Really?
"I voted for him, not her. He was so sensible and pragmatic, considering all the details, so carefully and intelligently. He wasn't an ideologue. Where is the guy I voted for?"
Dig out those rose-colored glasses one more time (they've got to be in a drawer somewhere) and you'll see him again. Ooh, and look at all the pretty colors!!
In Mayor Daley's office closet, waiting to be polished and brought out for 2012.
Actually, that quote that you cite underscores his pragmatism. He was willing to accept a mandate, which many congressmen wanted, in order to pass heatlh care reform.
An ideologue would not have compromised.
Politicians are always disappointing, but you got exactly what you voted for: a Chicago Politician. All his words and demeanor should have been taken for mostly crap regardless (How do you know when a politician is lying?).
I know he's disappointing, but the hints were there. (not that I think McCain was great. I didn't like him either)
WV: Potspi. I wish I could spy some pot, maybe it would help the political jitters.
He learned early in life how to be non-threatening to white people. How to deceive. It's in HIS BOOK. It was all there to see.
Willfully blind.
Useful idiots.
AllenS: HRC is, but I do have a feeling she is reading the polls as well. I do not think we have heard the last from Ms Clinton. The next time she runs against Mr Obama (if she does), he will have a track record.
And--Ms Clinton can now honestly claim to have foreign policy credentials--something Mr Obama still lacks.
Roger J. said...
Get out of academe, get a real job
FWIW: If I recall Roger J's resume, he was a Professor at one point, though West Point is hardly leftist Ivory tower that is the WI Law School.
AllenS said it best. I'll point out a substantive difference from Obama to Bill Clinto, both were liars, but Bill told you what he thought you wanted to hear, while Barry tells you what he wants you to hear.
Bill wanted to be popular
Barry wants to put in place statist policies that can't be undone.
Now you are beginning to sound like my fellow Jews who keep wondering how it is possible that the wonderfully liberal (almost) black person they voted for to ease their guilty minds could be treating Israel so harshly....
Do they make "wake-up" pills yet? Take two and call me in the morning....
@ AllenS
I don't think they gave her much choice.
Roger, if you think she'll run against Obama, she'll have to start soon. Unless she thinks that Obama will not seek a second term, then any time limit will do.
I really dislike Hillary. I think she is a lying witch. However, I always liked her better than Barry as a potential POTUS. She was clearly the only one of the Democratic candidates that had the balls to be the POTUS.
On the topic of her job as SoS, I'm not impressed thus far however. Maybe it's because she's carrying Barry's water, but her foreign trips look unsuccessful and somewhat embarassing.
Drill: true enough--I actually professored 17 years of my adult life and am still doing an adjunct gig with the U of Memphis in the public health program in my golden retirement years. None of my professor gigs were tenured either.
:)
I should have added: if Hillary becomes President, then instead of the racism charges we have now, she'll employ the sexism rant, and we'll be into another four years of bullshit.
Allen and Drill--lots to happen in the next two years when the next presidential campaign starts in earnest--Lets assume (bad word of course) that Mr Obama's numbers do not improve dramatically--what other democrats are out there who might mount a challenge? I always believe that personal ambition will overcome party loyalty any day of the week.
I saw someone on FB claim that this POS bill is a great civil rights triumph.
It's all about race, the crap shoveled in Universities across the land, well, really all schooling nowadays.
Race obsessed, Barry is the result, this bill is a further result.
The lefties know that race is a nice little sledgehammer they can use on people. it's not a conspiracy. Take a look at curricula with the focus on white guilt and white this and white that.
It's creepy as hell, and it ain't over yet.
You just did not see the budding totalitarian that I & many other saw.
It's not just that he lied to you and other voters. You permitted yourself to accept his lies, and thus enabled him as a liar, when you accepted -- on nothing but faith -- Obama's bona fides as a serious presidential candidate.
You and many voters like you knew, or you certainly should have known, that he had no serious record in general. You knew, or certainly should have known, that he therefore could have no serious record of keeping his promises in particular.
Worse, for those of you who did trouble to look and inquire, such minimal record as Obama did have, as an Illinois state senator and a barely-there U.S. senator, contained many warning signals. No legislative accomplishments; a record number of "present" votes; a striking lack of candor in admitting (as a presidential candidate) such things as his ultra-extreme pro-abortion record in the state senate -- you certainly couldn't take any real comfort from those, could you?
"Where is the guy I voted for?"
That guy was an illusion to begin with.
you wanted to be lied to...minimal analysis, which many did, clearly indicated he was full of s**t...quite frankly, it was OBVIOUS...
"He was so sensible and pragmatic, considering all the details, so carefully and intelligently. He wasn't an ideologue."
There you go again, thinking that "pragmatism" displaces ideology. It doesn't. You are now reaping the fruits of your error, yet you still don't see it as an error.
"Where is the guy I voted for?"
The guy you voted for was continually contradicting himself throughout the campaign. Millions of others saw through it. The question is, Why didn't your trained legal mind catch him in his contradictions?
Where is the guy I voted for?
Hate to tell you this Professor but he's been right in front of you all along.
rdkraus said...
He learned early in life how to be non-threatening to white people. How to deceive. It's in HIS BOOK. It was all there to see.
Willfully blind.
Useful idiots.
I'm afraid this is true. White guilt elected Barack Obama. Without it, he never would have had the electoral votes to win because most voters in enough states knew he was not qualified.
Those who voted for him as a means of assuaging their guilt can now revel in the irony of handing so much power to someone so undeserving.
Whoa Kathleen, thanks a lot. Way to close the topic with one accurate, pithy post.
Trey
Actually Professor Althouse, unlike many of us who are jaded but realistic, voted for BHO because it never occured to her that he was lying to the gun clinging, GOD fearing rubes who were victims of a second rate education.
Intentionally or otherwise she made a liar lie to her. There is no better way for BHO to change opinion and burn a bridge forever than to pursue an end justifies the means method of governance.
Reminds me of the Taliban killing school girls for the sake of denying them their right to an education. That is the recipe for disaster and imbues the target of your ideology with a terrible resolve (ht: Yamamoto).
The ideology of the left is fundamentally and fatally flawed. The only way to change the opinion of the people whose intelligence he insults is to study his methods and holding him accountable.
Since it seems we are counseling Althouse on her lousy BS detector and her vote, Beldar wins this thread.
wv= hatsy !
"Where is the guy I voted for?"
One way to look at it is, as many in this thread have already said, in terms of marketing -- the pitch has to be believable, make us want to have whatever is being pitched, even though we know in advance that the pitchman's promises will likely (but not always) turn out to be disappointing fantasy.
Another way to look at it is how people have reacted to messianic characters, political or religious, in the past. Projecting one's desires, suspending judgment and ignoring contradictions and replacing it all with hope, pretending that the blank slate says everything you want it to say, getting caught up in the object's narcissistic presentation of the Wonder of Me -- it was all there with Obama. At the individual level, that sort of infatuation is common enough. But at the level of a mass movement, it's pretty rare (fortunately).
It ends up saying much more about those who got wrapped up in it all than the talented team that did the wrapping.
"Where is the guy I voted for?"
Sucker.
You were warned. It was as obvious as the ears on his head.
Seems to me the election of Mr Obama will place yet another barrier to the full integration of American Blacks into the political system--having been seduced by a black American in this case, the next time an election takes place involving a black American, the public will be much more wary. Not a good thing for the millions of black Americans who would do a great job.
Obama was nothing more than the political descendant of the pet rock. Fads usually fade. Unfortunately, this one has a 4 year cycle.
What really is incredible to me is the level to which the media, from top to bottom, sports shows, to tv show to news show to commercials, movies, magazines, newspapers fully marched in step with the PR campaign to elect this guy. They went totally all in.
And we used to hear the lectures from the people like Orville Schell and Kalb and all those types that the media MUST MUST MUST retain their objectivity. They absolutely didn't, and they were glad to help out.
That too was a huge ass lie. I don't think we've seen the inevitable navel gazing thoughtful pieces apologizing for going so far in the tank for the chump Barry.
Again, easy to see how the USSR was created with the aid of propaganda, and carted along while people were abused and mistreated by the government. We just saw how it occurred.
Does that give one pause, it scares the living shit out of me.
I will bet his secrets are much deeper and worse than Edwards'.
Ms Althouse, you are delusional. A lot of us saw through him, why couldn't you...
Seems to me the election of Mr Obama will place yet another barrier to the full integration of American Blacks into the political system--
I would think that it places a barrier on the electorate electing someone who gives a gosh darn good speech over someone who actually has some real world experience and accomplishment beyond gradudating from law school.
Ann,
You, and many others, were delusional when you voted for him. When you have a crush on someone, it is not a good time to make decisions that involved that person. On behalf of my descendants, thank you.
Keep on wondering. If you thought he meant any of what he said you are more of a sucker than I thought. His is the 1993 Republican plan with a few things thrown in and hers was a real reform plan. You fell for the superficial and the propaganda.
We need to stop with the question of why The Althouse Woman voted for Obama. She's explained it enough times. No sense rubbing it in.
I voted for him, not her. He was so sensible and pragmatic, considering all the details, so carefully and intelligently. He wasn't an ideologue.
The mandate isn't exactly the best evidence of his being sensible and pragmatic, careful and intelligent. It's not him being an ideologue, no, but it is him engaging in a bit of irresponsible demagoguery. The plan he proposed (a knock-off of Clinton's plan, with the mandate removed) made absolutely no sense without a mandate -- a mandate is the mechanism for avoiding the inevitable adverse selection problems you get if you prevent insurers from excluding coverage for pre-existing conditions. Or let people buy fire insurance to cover fire damage from the fire that happened just before they bought fire insurance. Same thing. If you don't have an onerous, punitive mandate, the other reform just leads to premium costs spiralling out of control -- even in Massachusetts, where they do have comparatively punitive fines, they've been running into trouble.
In this case (like others), it was Clinton who was being sensible and pragmatic, careful and intelligent (if you leave aside her malevolent will to dominate all life). She just cackles like a witch, and he doesn't. He's superficially sensible, etc. etc. etc.
What AllenS said--and the professor was clearly not alone.
this election cycle was clearly a learning experience.
If amnesty goes through Mr. Pragmatic may never reappear. If, on the other hand, Hussein feels a need to con the bitter clingers, Mr. Reasonable will reappear in the runnup to the 2012 election.
The movies of the 70's all warned of evil conservatives and corporations, who were all Republican and Conservative, and the evil media handlers, who were all Cosnervative.
Well, we had something like those scenarios happen, but it was strictly from the left, all of it, all from the left, movies, media, the works.
Lots of people voted for that creation.
I am reminded of the Michael Crichton (RIP) movie Looker, one of my faves.
Barry was so cool and cute, with that lovely smile.
I saw someone on FB claim that this POS bill is a great civil rights triumph.
I saw someone who actually believes that costs will go down. Amazing.
I swear, some people just don't have the cynicism gene. Or possibly they are lacking the math gene.
And to be fair, when Republicans oppose pre-existing condition exclusions -- see, e.g. Jindal in his SOTU response (though he doesn't say it outright, just implies it) -- but oppose an onerous "mandate," they are open to the same charge of irresponsibility and short-term thinking as Obama.
AllenS, I will rub it in every chance I get. Because these are arrogant people who think they are smarter than the rest and know better. The fact is they don't know better. Look at what they have done.
Why do you regular commenters keep falling for this?
Worse, for those of you who did trouble to look and inquire, such minimal record as Obama did have, as an Illinois state senator and a barely-there U.S. senator, contained many warning signals. No legislative accomplishments; a record number of "present" votes; a striking lack of candor in admitting (as a presidential candidate) such things as his ultra-extreme pro-abortion record in the state senate
This.
The Ayers/Annenberg Challenge was another huge sign. It was his one experience as an executive, yet he kept it off his campaign resume because it was such an utter failure.
Not only that, but he funneled money to unseemly friends of Ayers (and perhaps, him).
And even then, he and Axelrod lied to us about it- their kids go to school together, just a guy in the neighborhood. Never a word about the Annenberg Challenge.
It was all so weird, and nobody cared because Obama seemed so much like he wanted to do good.
You assumed the worst about MCain and the best about Obama, so how else COULD you vote. It's ok, don't feel bad, you're just a law professor. How could you know that politicians lie?
It is so hard not to be cruel here. I love you anyway. Mostly, because you love Meade. I can't believe the same woman picked both guys. Perhaps it's the liberal disease of wanting good stuff for yourself, but playing god with the people for THEIR own good.
You're dog is beautiful, bagoh20. I miss mine so badly. I lost her way too young.
Nice avy.
I'd argue that the "sensible and pragmatic" guy is still there.
One problem is the same problem all Presidential candidates hit when they become President: they have to deal with the reality of the political process. All those promises, whether fancifully ambiguous or carefully detailed get swamped by the facts that(1) Congress writes and passes bills, not the President, and (2) politics is about trading votes for payouts, not about what's sensible and right.
In the end, just as we settle for the better, but not perfect, candidate at the time, so, too, must the President and our representatives settle for the best deal they can get from the process. The package is not perfect, but it's a step toward something better. I hope we can all settle and deal with the practicalities of what's been passed and see how it goes and pragmatically adjust as problems appear.
Also, while I said that's the same guy you voted for, it's possible you and your perspective may have changed. What happened to make you think the way you do now that Obama's so much different?
Trying this again. I hate the wrong use of "your", etc. Heh.
Your dog is beautiful, bagoh20. Missing mine so much, and she looked a bit like that.
Bless the dog lovers out there. Some day I'll cherish another.
He said what you wanted to hear to get you to do what he wanted you to do.
I think the lesson is to ignore what politicians say and instead focus in on what they have done. Obama's political record was short but consistent with an ideologue and not a pragmatist.
Look. We knew -- we all knew -- Obama was a radical well before he was elected. It became verboten to point out his associations with Rev Wright and Bill Ayers precisely because those associations were the chink in Obama's "I'm just a moderate" armor. People willfully averted their eyes. At least have the integrity to admit it!
Do you even know the definition of an ideologue? Obviously not.
He's obviously willing to change his mind - the exact opposite of an ideologue.
And the individual mandate does not apply to those who can't afford health insurance. They will pay nothing. It applies to the middle class - who can afford it- and who still refuse to buy health insurance - but expect the taxpayers to pay for it when they get sick and go visit the emergency room (without insurance) for a head cold.
I'd suggest you start reading Steve Sailer.
He put it all out there prior to the election.
Of course, he's a racist.
That's the problem. The definition of "racist" is completely plastic. It can mean, "saying anything truthful about blacks or a black man."
Dave is correct. Obama settled for all that he could reasonably get.
RobertL: The current Israeli government is a bunch of spoiled children who resent any check on their willfulness, no matter how much it hurts the prospect of peace in the Middle East. I thought Bibi was smarter than his current actions show, but he -- surrounded by millions of hostile Arabs -- sees no unfortunate consequences from pissing off Arabs. The lessons of Hezbollah and Hamas -- which sprang up as a direct reaction to Israeli acts --are quite lost on him.
MayBee: Obama's board position on the Annenberg Challenge was not an executive one. Further, even if it had been, as an engineer I consider the result -- that no proposed approach performed better than the status quo -- to be extremely useful and valuable. Educationists can thus eliminate a lot of blind alleys from their work.
McCain told us it was a terrible dastardly crime to call Hussein Hussein.
He's in Nancy Pelosi's . . . you know . . . like the duck inside the wolf in "Peter and the Wolf."
He was there all along. You just refused to see it.
I saw who is was and is before he was elected. shameless whorelink to an old post. Many many others also saw it.
Why didn't you?
All those promises, whether fancifully ambiguous or carefully detailed get swamped by the facts that(1) Congress writes and passes bills, not the President, and (2) politics is about trading votes for payouts, not about what's sensible and right.
Well that is kind of the point that many of us were making when Obama was promising to 'change the way that DC works'. But those who voting for this fool actually swallowed the kool aid he was selling.
Maybe that is the true problem with a democracy; that so few people actually follow or even understand politics and that enough people can be swayed by such rhetoric that a completely unqualified and clueless individual could be elected to the highest office.
You know it would be a refreshing if we could actually extend the consumer protection laws to the electorate and elected officials would be automatically evicted from office when their campaign promises fail to deliver. In the commercial world that's called false advertising and companies would have the AG crawling up their asses.
I thought Bibi was smarter than his current actions show, but he -- surrounded by millions of hostile Arabs -- sees no unfortunate consequences from pissing off Arabs.
Considering that the very existince of Jews is enough to piss off Arabs, any actions they take it really doesn't mean much.
There isn't much chance for a peace process when the Arabs don't even acknowledge the legitimacy of the Israelis to begin with and are pretty much avowed to never do so.
Obama is a center-left pragmatist, like he has always been. He generally believes government has a slightly larger role to play in society than do traditional conservatives but he is no radical. He is, however, smarter than the Republican leaders now in opposition and much smarter than the previous president and his group. He is not reactive and continues to play you successfully, like the good lawyer he is. Frum is right. HCR is the biggest legislative victory either party has enjoyed in decades. Your guys better swallow their anger and find the center or you will be in opposition for a long time.
The lessons of Hezbollah and Hamas -- which sprang up as a direct reaction to Israeli acts
Those vile, scheming Jews... what with their defending their country against genocidal terrorist maniacs bent on their utter destruction, their refusal to willingly lay down and die by the hundreds of thousands, their constant oxygen consumption, and their insistance on building apartment buildings in Jerusalem for people to live in.
HOW DARE THEY????
The man in that video was a mask, and you were gullible enough to vote for him.
Now you (and unfortunately we) are stuck with the real Obama.
I have a 3200 sq ft 2 story home in Arizona with a gorgeous view of an ocean. Because I like your blog, I will sell it to you cheap.
amba said... "He's in Nancy Pelosi's . . . you know . . . like the duck inside the wolf in "Peter and the Wolf.""
You might like this picture, taken by Meade at the rally at the Capitol last Saturday.
Your guys better swallow their anger and find the center or you will be in opposition for a long time.
Will,
The center opposes this bill. The only thing bipartisan about it is the opposition.
See you fuckers at the ballot box, assholes.
Told ya so.
All those promises, whether fancifully ambiguous or carefully detailed get swamped by the facts that(1) Congress writes and passes bills, not the President, and (2) politics is about trading votes for payouts, not about what's sensible and right.
This has not been Obama's problem (except, to a certain extent, with his promises on openness, transparency, and avoiding corruption -- those, Congress controls). Obama's problem has been that his promises were irresponsible, and the realities of command have forced him to abandon them.
E.g. getting all combat troops out of Iraq in 16 months. Then it was 19 months, and the real date, if it ever comes, is quite likely to be later than that. Or closing the facility at Guantanamo Bay in twelve months. Or promising a health care reform bill that forced insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, without an onerous mandate. These were all fundamentally unrealistic and irresponsible promises, made for electoral purposes, even if he didn't realise it at the time -- to deceive your enemies, first deceive your allies, after all. And he has had to abandon those promises. He's been mugged by reality, as it were.
You were gullible. Many of us told you then, but you wouldn't listen.
AllenS --
"We need to stop with the question of why The Althouse Woman voted for Obama. She's explained it enough times.
I voted for him, not her. ... Where is the guy I voted for?
Apparently she disagrees with you.
wv: shiest - What she actually voted for.
"...when they get sick and go visit the emergency room (without insurance) for a head cold."
A head cold? Oh, okay, thanks for your over-the-phone diagnosis, Dr. Downtowner. Whew! Glad to know it's not sinusitus. Now that we have ObamaCare, we won't have to worry about misdiagnosis like that any more. Thanks Obamacrats!
Brain Infection. The most dangerous complication of sinusitis, particularly frontal and sphenoid sinusitis, is the spread of infection by anaerobic bacteria to the brain, either through the bones or blood vessels. Abscesses, meningitis, and other life-threatening conditions may result. In such cases, the patient may experience mild personality changes, headache, altered consciousness, visual problems, and, finally, seizures, coma, and death.
kathleen said...
where? he never existed. you voted for the bait.
Bingo!
Ann, he never existed. Mr. Obama is and has always been a snake-oil salesman and an ideologue.
But, frankly, don't feel too bad. You weren't the only one snowed by it. Folks didn't look at his (sparse but revealing) record, which clearly showed just how much of a hard and unyielding leftist he was. Instead, they bought into the sheen and PR.
Next time, ignore what the guy/gal says (which are almost always lies) and look instead at what they've actually done.
We'd be better off as a country if more and more of us did that.
Also, look on the bright side...Obama has awakened the country in a way that McCain would have never done. If we're going to get out of this disaster in the making, we have to be awake and sober for it.
There were two elections.
There were plenty of reasons to vote against Hillary! that had nothing to do with Obama.
Similarly, there were plenty of reasons to vote against McCain that had nothing to do with Obama.
At some point, perhaps I can start voting for people again.
There were two elections.
Elwood: What kind of music do you usually have here?
Claire: Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western.
Blues Brothers, 1980
sue him ... he lied.
and be humble.
after all, you were enchanted by this empty suit, snake-oil seller.
I was wondering how the left could be OK with Obama lying to them on nearly everything. I see here in the comments it never mattered what he was or did. For them he is still a blank slate to cast your fantasies on.
He's a centrist, a pragmatist, a highlander,...
Is there any doubt that if at the end of his term, unemployment is 20% and the country has a useless credit rating with a severe doctor shortage and health care wrecked with foreign policy in tatters that the same people will still think nobody could have done any better. He was just a victim of history and the Republicans. I'm not predicting that outcome, but saying it would not matter to many.
You guys have no ability to discern any fault with him. It's a bromance with lustful blindness.
If you feel a need to vote against somebody, instead of being able to find a reason to vote for someone, perhaps you shouldn't vote at all for that office. In every election, there are numerous offices to vote for. Skip the ones that you might feel a need to vote against.
Roger J. said...
"...You do epitomize the academics in Buckley famous gibe about the boston phone book."
"I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University."
- WFB,Jr.
Also: "I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said."
If Obama is a centrist, who were the Presidents to the left of him?
Just like the ending in Dallas, it was all a dream. It's politics as usual.
He wasn't an ideologue. Where is the guy I voted for?
A lot of people where sold homes they couldn't afford creating something called a real state bubble. At the time of the sale the paquage looked irresistibly good..
The Obama bubble is bursting.
Kathleen you were pimped. Don't feel bad. Most Americans were. I was not.
....and the country has a useless credit rating
At the end of his term? Hell we should be so lucky it lasts that long.
He's still not an ideologue. The individual mandate is essential to the funding of the program.
um, Chuck? I didn't vote for the guy.
"Your dog is beautiful, bagoh20. Missing mine so much, and she looked a bit like that."
Thanks Darcy, her name is Spirit. Sorry for your loss. There is a new dog out there somewhere looking for you.
Darcy said... Why do you regular commenters keep falling for this?
You mean Ann's trolling? We know she's a troll. She loves to pretend innocent puzzlement to stir things up.
We aren't "falling for it." We just enjoy the chance to ventilate our exasperation with "elites" like her who put Bambi in the catbird seat.
Hopenchange is a registered trademark of Axelrod Rahmbo LLC ...
Have you bought a ShamWow yet?
"Where is the guy I voted for? "
YOU WERE DUPED.
WE ON THE HARD-RIGHT KNEW WHAT HE WAS REALLY ALL ABOUT, AND YOU SQUISHY CENTRISTS SWALLOWED HIM HOOK LINE AND SINKER.
YOU SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO US!
Does anyone know exactly when the mandate kicks in and I will be exposed to penalties and imprisonment for not carrying health insurance?
"He's still not an ideologue. The individual mandate is essential to the funding of the program."
That was my point, upstream. Clinton got it, Obama had to move there.
"He's still not an ideologue. The individual mandate is essential to the funding of the program."
They are not mutually exclusive. Even ideologues have to have plans that can be rationalized. An ideologue does not have to be mumbling in a corner. The dangerous ones sound..."pragmatic".
....and the country has a useless credit rating
If our name was not USA, we would already be Greece.
He was against it before he was for it.
But, hey, as of today the supposedly 32 million uninsured have health insurance. The supposedly 18,000 people a month who die from allegedly not having insurance will be saved. Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi have done nothing less than saved the nation. Right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight!
Ann, I understand, sort of, why you and so many others thought that he was the man you believed you were voting for -- or wanted so badly to believe that he was -- but I cannot understand how it could be possible that you STILL think that man exists. He does not. He never did. He was a con and a fake from the start. Many of us could see it then; I am still surprised that you didn't see it then, but I'm gobsmacked to think that you don't see it now.
Also, his campaign argument that you can require insurers to cover pre-existing conditions without immposing an individual mandate is not a sign of sensible pragmatism. It's a sign of clueless ignorance about the way insurance works and the reasons people buy insurance. Or, if the speaker is not ignorant of the contradiction he's espousing, it's a sign of perfect willingness to say whatever nonsense will delude people into voting for you, whether or not it makes sense and whether or not the speaker intends to abide by his words. Neither is a good reason to wish that the candidate who said those things actually exists.
"If our name was not USA, we would already be Greece."
Too big to fail? Who's gonna bail us out?
Give it a rest Meade! You're more likely to face the Cadillac tax with any of the Wisconsin health plans.
Doesn't Rules for Radicals condone lying, ends-justify-the-means tactics? I thought that Obama is also on record endorsing a single-payer system.
That was my point, upstream. Clinton got it, Obama had to move there.
Sorry, missed it among the noise.
Too bad for Clinton (and McCain) that she couldn't find a way to rhetorically slam him with this.
Too big to fail? Who's gonna bail us out?
That's a damn good question.
Roger J,
Not two years. Right now. Obama is running his reelection campaign. That is why David Pouffe was broguht on board. Mr. Pouffe is running Organizing for America(barackobama.com) out of the White House.
The campaign is on.
No pun intended but the money quote from my link:
"The market is growing a little bit concerned over multi-trillion dollar budget deficits and concerned that the new health care legislation is going to add tremendously to the deficit rather than be deficit neutral,"
Unlike Obama, the people who actually fund his spending spree do realize that we don't just shit money.
Does anyone know exactly when the mandate kicks in and I will be exposed to penalties and imprisonment for not carrying health insurance?
I do not believe that you are not on your spouse's Health plan.
Similarly, I'm not sorry that I didn't not write a sentence without double negatives.
The individual mandate is essential to the funding of the program.
The money to pay for union workers, overly regulated insurance, tort averse protection and other costs that has nothing to do with health care has to come from somewhere.
God forbid they should reform any of those.
Despite some complaints around the holidays I don't hear anybody wanting to go back to the days b4 deregulation of the airlines...
Everybody seems very happy with their cheap fares.
Politicians are always disappointing, but you got exactly what you voted for: a Chicago Politician. All his words and demeanor should have been taken for mostly crap regardless (How do you know when a politician is lying?).
I know he's disappointing, but the hints were there.
Indeed. I laugh but it really isn't funny. I have no sympathy for people who are just realizing who he is, much like I had none for the people who woke up in 1998 realizing that Bill Clinton lied like the rest of us breathe.
All the indications were there, why didn't you see?
The minute airlines where allowed to compete prices came crashing down.. no pun intended.
Look, there are millions of people waking up from their hopium and changium hangovers. They, like other addicts were in search of stronger drugs like obtanium. Their heads are clearing and they are truly sorry. Deep regret and buyer's remorse are settling in. The fog is lifting from their brains and they realize their horrid mistake.
Take heart -- the guy you voted for is still opposed to the individual mandate. He's still for "single payer". He just knows that the only way to pass single payer is to first destroy the insurance industry and/or the entire medical industry.
So cheer up, I guess; if you want single-payer, and cap-and-tax, and more wealth redistribution in the tax code. You'll get all that eventually, by hook or crook.
If you don't want all that, then...I'm not sure which Obama you were voting for. His brother, the physicist, maybe.
Meade, as I recall Althouse saying you are on her health care plan (slacker). Get your own health care plan. I may be to conservative but I am for independent responsibility with an emphasis on the INDEPEDENT, no spouse, especially a man receiving it from a woman. How degrading. I know sexist but fuck it.
You have nothing to worry about unless your combined income is over $200,000.
Reading in the Wisconsin State Journal Althouse makes $150,000 something and you don't work (slacker).
But Althouse does work for the STATE (gross) totally not corporate. And state/government employees which Althouse is one of have cadillac plans and will be hit. I am all for doing whatever can be done to eliminate and reduce state/government employees so I say hit them hard, preferably lay their asses off with no severance and nothing. The state (ie the taxpayer) should not be paying for their pathetic input which is minimum at best.
Corporate, for profit fabulous people like me who make over 200k ( and are still under 40)are going to be hit equally hard and for that I am disgusted.
How's the gay son like you? My guess is not so much. What a proud moment it must of been when the father in law marched with some people that yelled faggot at a gay person-that is something to tell the grandkids.
Also, what happened to Althouse's "gay fan base". They have disappeared, except for Palladian, natch.
"Everybody seems very happy with their cheap fares."
But where is my god-awful, nasty meal in a tray.
You know if not for deregulation we would be mandated to get those and pay an extra $100 for them forever.
Darcy,
I'm glad to hear you'll be wanting another wonderful dog to love someday.
About six months after my 21-year-old cat died, one day I found myself putting my finished cereal bowl down for her to come finish the milk. We got up and went to the SPCA that very day, and brought home two male cats, whom I called "You're not Miss Cat" and "You Never Will Be." That only lasted a week, and they became beloved friends very quickly.
Airline Flight insurance is some of the cheapest services going.
"Read my lips: No new taxes."
Dave is right at 7:45; a pragmatist changes his mind, an ideologue stays the course. And as much as I ask what happened to the guy I voted for, too, I look around for the guy I didn't vote for and find he's holding his breath till he turns blue, and generally reminding me how I'm glad he's not president. You pays your money, you takes your chances.
Ann,
The good news is, we don't have to fucking sit here and take it.
Barack Obama has committed several crimes while in office:
* He has bribed a person not to run for a political office.
* He has participated in a conspiracy to extort Rep. Darryl Massa.
* He bribed a Congressman by appointing his brother to a federal judgeship (the fact that the vote wasn't needed is beside the point of the facts).
Barack Obama has undoubtedly ordered the US military to commit murders and assassinations ... so he is complicit in that crime as well.
We don't have to just sit back and take it from this guy. He is a criminal, and he is not above the law.
Impeach him.
Try him.
Sentence him.
Jail him.
Justice demands it.
Hi Darcy..
Nice to hear from you again girl ;)
Let me be the umpteenth commenter to say, "the guy you voted for never existed." That said, Obama is just being clever here. There is nothing inconsistent with the quoted language and his real allegiance to 'single payer'. I think the argument goes something like, "yes, it's unfair to force people to buy insurance, so the only fair way is single payer". In fact I expect to hear this for real, sooner rather than later. I would bet real money that the Obamacrats will dance a jig if the various States are successful in challenging the individual mandate in the courts. If it is stricken, they no doubt think it will strengthen the argument for(and popularity of) a single payer solution.
You voted for the black guy. From what I can tell, he's still black.
I don't get it.
A lot of people where sold homes they couldn't afford creating something called a real state bubble.
But this was widely praised when President George W. Bush pushed Federal goverment intervention to make homeownership affordable, back in 2002:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8
http://www.americandreamdownpaymentassistance.com/whdoc06012002.cfm
President Bush has a comprehensive agenda to help increase the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million before the end of the decade.
The President also believes that government alone can’t close America’s homeownership gap. It is critical that our government challenge the private sector to take concrete steps to tear down the barriers to homeownership that face minority families. The President is issuing "America’s Homeownership Challenge" to the real estate and mortgage finance industries to join in his effort to increase the number of minority homeowners by 5.5 million families by the end of the decade. Many organizations have already responded to the President’s challenge by committing to:
Substantially increase by at least $440 billion, the financial commitment made by the government sponsored enterprises involved in the secondary mortgage market [Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac], specifically targeted toward the minority market;
[Freddie Mac] Launching twenty-five different local initiatives across the nation, geared toward eliminating the specific homeownership barriers faced by minority families in those communities;
...
Aggressively developing new mortgage products so that conventional market alternatives are available to combat the predatory loan products that are disproportionately targeted to minorities;
The rest is history.
"Where is the guy I voted for? "
still in denial... sigh... when are you in the milquetoast middle going to look in the mirror and ask a different question: "Why did I willfully disbelieve the obvious PROVABLE truth(s) about the man, and vote for him any, just because it felt cool to vote for the first African American to run for president?"
"Dave is correct. Obama settled for all that he could reasonably get."
Former Law Student is right on this. I think it is reasonable to conclude that Obama displayed pragmatism here.
He also displayed that his ideology is a hell of a lot further to the left than he had portrayed in the campaign. He settled for what he could get but wanted a whole lot more.
"You pays your money, you takes your chances."
Same thing I told my brother-in-law. How hard is this?
Beth, your cat story is a delight to read.
I'm not thrilled with my dog at the moment. Whiny at 5 AM is not the way to my heart. Coffee is helping.
Ha ha. In this instance, as well as with tax cuts and deficit reduction, its pretty funny how Barry O's campaign oratory for the ages is indistinguishable from what is now considered by our betters to be detestable hayseed tea-bagger rhetoric.
MayBee: Obama's board position on the Annenberg Challenge was not an executive one. Further, even if it had been, as an engineer I consider the result -- that no proposed approach performed better than the status quo -- to be extremely useful and valuable. Educationists can thus eliminate a lot of blind alleys from their work.
FLS: Obama was Chair of the board. If you want to call that not an executive position, you are free to make that quibble.
That you are happy he spent tens of millions of dollars to do nothing says oodles about Obama supporters.
But the main point is-- he hid it. He lied about it. His staff hid it. His staff lied about it. The University of Illinois even tried to help hide it.
During the campaign, it was completely knowable that Obama was unknowable. That's the point.
Obama is a center-left pragmatist, like he has always been. He generally believes government has a slightly larger role to play in society than do traditional conservatives but he is no radical.
muhahaha...Center Left pragmatist, you so funny, you love Obama long time. Obama was born to a communist, raised by a communist, mentored by communists and funded by communist but you think he isn't a communist okey dokey. And he discarded all that training and indoctraination to become a Center Left Pragmatist.
And Althouse thought he was a moderate...hilarious.
Why are smart people such jackasses? My wife, software engineer, and I often talk about why her family, filled with PHD's, are such liberal jackasses and it is hard to fathom.
"But this was widely praised when President George W. Bush pushed Federal goverment intervention to make homeownership affordable, back in 2002:"
For rational people, it does not matter who pushed a bad idea. He was wrong. But when the regulators in his administration pointed out to congress that it was getting dangerous, they basically called them liars and told them to shut up.
Bad ideas don't get better because your guy pushes them. This is something that separates Ann from a lot of fools supporting Obama's mistakes.
Ann: did you vote for this empty suit because he has a law degree or because of his minority status? You couldn't have voted for him because of his many prior accomplishments; there were none.
Dave is right at 7:45; a pragmatist changes his mind, an ideologue stays the course.
And a smart person is someone who doesn't write checks that they should know they can't cash.
I don't begrudge anyone changing their mind but I take issue with making promises that anyone with an IQ higher than my shoe size knows are not doable. Obama took advantage of his celebrity status to pretty much turn his campaign into a Billy Maes ad (Look at me! I can do ANYTHING!) so he's not so much of a pragmatists as just another lying pol.
"best predictor of the future is the past" - who were his friends, mentors, accomplishments, etc. With the aid of independent research the above wasn't pretty. Otherwise it's just words (and well creased trousers).
But this was widely praised when President George W. Bush pushed Federal goverment intervention to make homeownership affordable, back in 2002:
You know, I'm waiting for the liberal Democrat to stand up and say: "You know what folks, not everyone is entitled to or must own a home."
Because until one actually does, I really don't care what a former president touted because I didn't see anyone from your side of the aisle saying that was a bad idea.
Maybe at that point the 3rd grade response of 'Well.....he did it too!' will die the death it deserves.
Claude
Were you born last night?
Ann has explained before why she voted for him, and reiterates her thoughts above.
She was fooled/wrong.
FLS: Obama was Chair of the board. If you want to call that not an executive position, you are free to make that quibble.
None of the positions on a board of directors are executive positions. There is a modern fad to make the chief executive officer of a for-profit corporation the chairman of the board as well, but that eliminates an important check and balance on the management of a corporation.
Not every development leads to improvements. History is littered with failed projects and blind alleys. Remember bubble memory and Josephson junctions? Probably not.
I'll take that as a no - no one knows just when the individual mandate kicks in.
So I'll just go way out on a limb here and guess - sometime after the November elections.
I would remind people that George H.W. Bush also said:
"Read My Lips ... no new taxes."
I do not fault Althouse for believing what Barack Obama said about the individual mandate.
Politicians lie! OMFG!
Last time I checked, that's not against the law.
What I do fault Althouse for is for letting Barack Obama commit crimes in office and not calling for his impeachment.
Barack Obama appears to be above the law. It seems he is able to blackmail, extort and bribe to get what he wants and no arm of justice is long enough to reach him.
Ann Althouse and her friends in the intelligentsia are letting him freely commit crimes.
That is inexcusable.
he is a liar.
he changes his message to suit the occasion. Sarkozy had him pegged as an empty suit.
An implied "mea culpa", Ann, or just some quickie bait in the water for us predictable fish?
Snarfing away, my cheap theories:
1. Word merchants are particularly susceptible to the product of accomplished word merchants. The vulnerable include lawyers, media mavens, academics...
2. People who love the Beatles and the make-believe of Hollywood get caught up in the acting and react emotionally as though they are watching reality. Obie was a good actor, playing the part of the serious, thoughtful, caring, considerate, centrist presidential candidate almost perfectly while promising a better way. The media and 60+ million other theater goers loved the part and didn't want to know about the actor's rancid personal life and beliefs. Many if not most of the adoring audience still don't.
Maybe at that point the 3rd grade response of 'Well.....he did it too!' will die the death it deserves.
"He did it too"?
W. was a leader as well as a cheerleader. But blaming W. for our current woes sets up cognitive dissonance in conservatives, so they ignore his role.
In fact, we learn in an interesting oped in the NY Times today, conservatives freely ignore facts that contradict their ideology. In fact, the more they are supplied with correct facts, the more tightly they cling to their misbelief:
...In some cases, we found that corrections can even make misperceptions worse. For example, in one experiment we found that the proportion of conservatives who believed that President George W. Bush’s tax cuts actually increased federal revenue grew from 36 percent to 67 percent when they were provided with evidence against this claim. People seem to argue so vehemently against the corrective information that they end up strengthening the misperception in their own minds.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/opinion/25nyhan.html
Ann, he was never the man you thought he was. Some us could see this and tried to warn you.
I never understood how my friends could miss the truth. I always saw him for the Big Government Control guy - I just missed what a complete liar he was too.
"You pays your money, you takes your chances."
Where would the con men go if not for those famous last words?
~~~~
Can anyone imagine the tone of political noise if a Republican had won and successfully passed a bill fully privatizing Social Security, and everything else was exactly as it is now.
The left would be screaming about the failure and the over reaching. Now imagine they did it with the kind of payola and arm twisting we just witnessed.
Just think how that cacophony would sound. The constant drone of a failed economy with the press in full attack mode 24/7. The overwhelming whine, the gnashing of teeth.
You liberals are lucky to have conservatives as opponents.
"Why are smart people such jackasses?"
So others have something to laugh at.
"underscores his pragmatism. He was willing to accept a mandate, which many congressmen wanted, in order to pass heatlh care reform. "
No, Dave - what he really wanted is SINGLE PAYER - he is on record as stating this (2003 - 2006 - check You Tube).
He tried to apear moderate and reasonable to get elected - fooling quite a number of people
@Titus: I've seen far more sexism, racism, classism, ageism, and homophobia expressed in you comments here than I observed at the protest last Saturday (which was, in fact, exactly none).
And if you have a question for my stepson, you should have shown up for our lunch date last December instead of flaking out like a fragile - albeit self-considered fabulous - little snowflake.
Ann won't have my trust again until she admits that she, like many women, voted for Obama because he was "so cute and cool and dreamy, with that big (fake) smile!" All of which overwhelmed any rational review of his too obvious past record!
Acta non verba, Ann, you knew better then, just admit it now!
Ann: serious question -- did you consider Obama's past voting record?
When a politician's rhetoric and voting record don't agree, always believe the voting record. Actions speak louder than words.
Obama had the most liberal voting record in the Senate. There was no reason to expect anything different as President. It was pretty obvious that he wasn't going to be moderate or bipartisan or anything but a far left hack.
W. was a leader as well as a cheerleader. But blaming W. for our current woes sets up cognitive dissonance in conservatives, so they ignore his role.
Who said I ignored his role? There you go with your strawman again FLS. All I said is I didn't see anyone from your side saying that Bush touting 'Homes for All!' was something that should be avoided. Where was the loyal opposition in trying to prevent this outrage that led to our current problems today? Oh that's right, they were all for it as well as Barney Fwank famously said that Fwannie and Fweddy were in fine shape.
So go ahead and take that strawman down and work on a new one FLS since thats what you do best.
"None of the positions on a board of directors are executive positions."
As someone who holds both, I can tell you that executives do what directors tell them to. The Chairman is everyones boss, except the stockholders. What he wanted was gonna happen if possible. Unless, as he was prone to do, he was just a placeholder and voted present. Bottom line is: if he was successful at running something, it would have been a made into a miniseries by now. They hid it, and lied about it. He never succeeded at doing anything, but getting chosen for positions as a token and writing about himself. I would expect such a person to be despised by liberals, but they do go for the symbolism stuff.
I'm betting it was no lie, but sincere wishful thinking. All Obama knew at that point was that he wanted guaranteed issue; it wasn't until later that his advisors made him see that he would have to swallow a spider to catch the fly.
I would think you have been around long enough to know that some people use tongue to hide what they really think. I guess all the polititians do that part of the time. This's why more important to look at thing they do, and the way they do them. Obama's resume for the job was negligable.
wv: hedulness - yeh, he's dull too
Rasmussen: 55% of likely voters support repealing Obamacare.
I look around for the guy I didn't vote for and find he's holding his breath till he turns blue, and generally reminding me how I'm glad he's not president.
Complete agreement.
To be fair though, I'll point out that Senatorial behavior is usually a lot more infantile than Presidential.
In fact, we learn in an interesting oped in the NY Times today, conservatives freely ignore facts that contradict their ideology. In fact, the more they are supplied with correct facts, the more tightly they cling to their misbelief:
I can't find this op ed since the linky seems to be incomplete but I have to wonder what the facts are regarding revenue and the tax cuts.
According to this report from the CBO, they claim that from 2003-2006, federal tax revenue grew by 35%. Now perhaps the NYT is making an error thinking that there was no revenue increase because spending outpaced receipts. It would be an easy error that I can forgive considering the lack of intellectual talent at the paper of record.
He is pragmatic. But that does not necessarily exclude him from being an idealogue. He supported the public option, he wanted the public option - but when he realized that it was dead in the Senate, he chose the next best thing that would kick the door open to single-payer/universal coverage. Individual Mandates.
He wanted to distinguish himself from Hillary as much as possible - Iraq was the foreign policy issue where he had fake differences and Health care reform was the domestic issue where he had fake differences.
Btw, if any one remembers, during the Presidential debates Obama claimed that he would like "single payer if we started from sratch"... huh ? He was against the individual mandate but at the same time he was for single payer if "we started from scratch" !
FLS also neglects to mention that Fannie and Freddie. both financial behemoths controlled by Democrats throughout the Bush administration, created and promulgated the housing bubble. Oh, and that efforts by the Bush administration to regulate same were decried as racism by none other than our dear Barney Frank and his band of merry Democrat idiots.
Of course, I'm assuming that FLS even knows this stuff in the first place. Probably a stretch.
I think McCain would have been a worse choice - we'd probably be at war with Iran by now if he were president. And I voted for McCain
It looks like Muslims are exempted from the mandate because they believe that insurance is bad - "forbidden"
If Muslims and illegals and Christian Scientist and others are exempted - but still will use the emergency room - then it doesn't add up that others should be mandated because the costs of using emergency rooms are too high.
Excellent point, Mr. Snarkolepsy:
"When a politician's rhetoric and voting record don't agree, always believe the voting record. Actions speak louder than words."
Things that set off alarm bills for me:
1. He voted against John Roberts for the Supreme Court and admitted it was for the advancement of his political career.
2.His support against a live birth protection bill while he was a state senator in IL.
3.His ineffectiveness on the Annenberg Commision...lots of money spent and no results.
4.Oh, Jeez, his whole life story if you looked just a little deeper than the pablum the MSM fed the public.
This is all such a shame but I can only hope that eyes once opened will see more clearly.
"So I'll just go way out on a limb here and guess - sometime after the November elections."
I believe it's January 1, 2014. So yes, after the November elections.
Well I just realized I am Amish.
Yes, Kathleen, at W's behest, Fannie and Freddie committed to spend an additional $440 billion in the secondary mortgage market, so that minorities could own their own homes.
yeah, Bush ended up enabling the voracious idiot democrats, because he feared being called "racist". Now we have record low home sales and people losing their homes everywhere. yay democrats.
Conservative dopes: Wake up.
The Bush admin spoke out of both sides of its mouth. While quietly pushing for restraint, they were loudly trumpeting their compassionate conservative cred via homes for the poor and minoties. Let's not make believe they did anything meaningful to stop it.
"Well I just realized I am Amish."
The IRS will not buy that.
The next best thing, of course, is to become a Muslim. The IRS cannot prove that you are not a Muslim and the way you become a Muslim is to say: "I bear witness that there is no God except Allah and Muhammad is His messenger."
That's it. You're a Muslim.
Only Jews have to pay Obama's insurance tax and pay the fines. The entire design of health care reform is to act as a tax on being a Jew.
Muslims are exempt from this law.
I said minoties?
What is a minoti?
FLS:
I doubt Bush intended to "spend" $400 Billion. You are confusing Fwannie and Fweddie guaranteeing $400 Billion in mortgages vs. losing [or spending] that amount of taxpayer dough on deadbeat risky loans.
Ann, your nose just could not smell the wolf under the lamb covering. Or maybe would not is the better phrasing. Too many looked at Obama's record and the people with whom he ran and easily smelled the wolf. Too many were so enamored of voting the first minority president into office that they, like you, voted their hopes and ignored the obvious.
Now that you are starting to reconsider, realizing that you may not have been as smart as you thougt you were when you voted for the big Zero back in 08. Which should cause you to also wonder whether you are as smart as you think you are now.
Check your hubris, Professor Althouse.
Don't mean to pile it on but having been in academic myself for the past 10 years, my colleagues tend to think they are smarter than they actually are.
Good ideas are never enough. They have to be practical and implementable/
...unlike Huan who is a model of modesty, introspection, and self-deprecation.
@LilyBart - What he really wants is irrelevant w/r/t Ann's quote which kicks this discussion off.
As a candidate, he didn't want a mandate. As a president, he accepted one. Deep down does he want 'single-payer'? Maybe he does.
But I am missing how compromise makes him an ideologue. Again, if anything, the year-long negotiations over HCR show him to be pragrmatic if nothing else.
The question is not did he change his mind. It's did he have a good policy based reason for doing so. Are you interested in that question, or are you going to adopt Rush's position as your own?
Kathleen has it right, at the very top of the comments.
He never existed.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Too many looked at Obama's record and the people with whom he ran and easily smelled the wolf.
It's hard to smell a wolf when there's a big pile of sh!t in the running.
Maybe that stretches your metaphor a little too far.
should we really be appalled that a politician changed his position on an issue once elected.
I thought that was one of the qualifications for any higher office.
Besides, the bill passed does it really matter what he said before it passed.
When Senator Clinton says a mandate, it's not a mandate on government to provide health insurance....
And what would a "mandate on government to provide health insurance" look like? Single Payer? The phrase was never said.
It's not like the government can fulfill a mandate for health insurance without a bucket of money. But Obama wasn't honest about that either. Remember when "No one making under 200,000 dollars will see a dime of a tax increase"?
Or, if the speaker is not ignorant of the contradiction he's espousing, it's a sign of perfect willingness to say whatever nonsense will delude people into voting for you, whether or not it makes sense and whether or not the speaker intends to abide by his words. Neither is a good reason to wish that the candidate who said those things actually exists.
Even Thomas said not too long ago that Obama shows a "fundamental dishonesty". For many of us that rings true and has since he told us he had no idea what was going on in that church he attended for 20 years.
I suspect that Obama, as he said, does not care about *means* - but does care about ends. And I also suspect that that he how he views *pragmatism* :-)
In other words - "sure I said all those things - but I'm pragmatic and realized I needed to shift my position" - or something like that anyway
Many will agree - and consider it really smart. Others will view it as fundamental dishonesty.
Those who voted for BO and now wonder are like Flounder
wv: nonstank Just spray it on and remove all of those nasty odors. And it comes in a handy travel size too!
None of the positions on a board of directors are executive positions. There is a modern fad to make the chief executive officer of a for-profit corporation the chairman of the board as well, but that eliminates an important check and balance on the management of a corporation.
There was no corporation. The board made the decisions and doled out the money. There wasn't anybody under them. They were it.
But again, no matter how you want to describe his position--- he kept it off his resume. Pretended it didn't happen. Tried to keep people from finding out about it.
Lied about it. His staff lied about it. And they punished at least two reporters who wrote about it.
There's no spinning that.
Althouse.
I have to praise you for being up front in admitting that you were wrong.
Please do not forget this lesson in politics. The left lies.
Those who voted for BO
Given my last comment, this makes me chuckle.
Notice our liberals have nothing to say about Ann's original complaint - where did the non-ideologue Obama go? Of course I never believed he was a non-idealogue to begin with and we TRIED to warn her in the lead-up to the election!
There's a scene in War and Peace in which Pierre talks himself out of a promise:
"I should like to go to Kuragin's," thought he.
But he immediately recalled his promise to Prince Andrew not to go there. Then, as happens to people of weak character, he desired so passionately once more to enjoy that dissipation he was so accustomed to that he decided to go. The thought immediately occurred to him that his promise to Prince Andrew was of no account, because before he gave it he had already promised Prince Anatole to come to his gathering; "besides," thought he, "all such 'words of honor' are conventional things with no definite meaning, especially if one considers that by tomorrow one may be dead, or something so extraordinary may happen to one that honor and dishonor will be all the same!" Pierre often indulged in reflections of this sort, nullifying all his decisions and intentions. He went to Kuragin's.
BO = body odor.
"Where is the guy I voted for?"
The guy you voted for never existed.
You voted for a radiance that was emitted by the candidate, Barack Obama.
You failed to look below the thin, shiny, well-crafted surface that reflected just what you wanted to see and hear in shades of black, white, red and blue coupled with the thoughts and sounds of liberal guilt being assuaged.
After all, it would have been racist, backward and unenlightened to vote against the candidate Obama wouldn't it?
FLS: In point of fact many people on corporate boards have management positions. That is why there is a distinction between independent directors and management directors. You can look it up.
@Triangle man
you don't have to be faultless to recognize the faults of others, or youself. if you have to be faultless to find fault then everyone ought to shut up. that is simply fallacious.
whether i am a model or not is irrelevant. countless people like Althouse have placed this country in jeopardy because they went with what was perceived to be the "smart choice" and willingly become the victim of sophistry.
Ann, you can receive pennance by voting straight Republican for the next 20 years of any elections.
;-)
Cheers!
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