"I’d like to be a president (known) as somebody who liberated 50 million people and helped achieve peace; that focused on individuals rather than process; that rallied people to serve their neighbor."He can say that, but can anybody hear him?
One thing I notice is his reuse of the word "process." What is this process that he sees himself as above and apart from? What about the detainees who argue they were denied due process? Surely, the President did not intend to jog our thoughts about them. He meant this focus on the individual in a warm, compassionate, positive way, I presume. But if you regard an individual as evil and ignore process, where will focus on individuals take you? There's a reason why process is fundamental to the rule of law.
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Not certain about the "process".
But George W Bush, while hated on the level that Lincoln was, will surely one day be thought of far more highly than now.
And please, Bush haters, don't waste your time here. When we asked Bush-hating commenters on Althouse yesterday to explain what they called Bush's "criminal acts", they provided the following convincing evidence:
.
Get over it.
If Zacarias Moussaoui is any sort of an indicator, then due process in American courts is not a reasonable solution for the detainees. I don't know what one does with individuals who assert that once freed they will immediately try to kill Americans, and I can't imagine that Ann does either. I don't think Obama will do anything with them other than what Bush has done -- and if he does release any of them and they do succeed in killing Americans, then the calls for his impeachment will be loud and immediate.
Mind you, if Obama announced that he would release the terrorists/detainees in Madison, I suspect Ann would feel differently about due process as applied to them.
I'm impressed that Bush correctly said, "...a person who ... did not sell his soul" where those of lower intellect would have said "...a person who ... did not sell their soul."
What is it with lawyers and their bitch god "process?" Truth doesn't matter. Justice doesn't matter. All that really matters is the archane and self-justifying "process" is followed.
Political process, not legal process. And I tend to think, for all his mistakes and misjudgments, he succeeded in focusing on individuals and not on political process.
No one is worthy of the office. I think Ann Althouse said that. George Bush saved the world after September 11 and I am grateful. I said that.
Larry, I'm not a lawyer, and I certainly don't think process is next to godliness. I do remember, however, that none of us is infallible, and that process can be a great aid as we try to determine what the truth actually is in any given situation.
jimbino said...
I'm impressed that Bush correctly said, "...a person who ... did not sell his soul" where those of lower intellect would have said "...a person who ... did not sell their soul."
Obviously luck. Even a broken clock is right two times a day.
What is it with lawyers and their bitch god "process?" Truth doesn't matter. Justice doesn't matter. All that really matters is the archane and self-justifying "process" is followed.
Without process, you reduce society to a contest of wills, which is not much different from might-makes-right.
I just got a return mail from Dell saying that their records show I received the correct T8300 processor and not the 2x slower T5250 that I can see with my very eyes is in the thing.
All the steps have already been taken.
That's the motto of the process person in human relations.
Without process, you reduce society to a contest of wills, which is not much different from might-makes-right.
It's without morality you reduce society to a contest of wills.
Not process.
The words of a non-political-process person willing to do what it takes to get the correct processor installed instead of the 2x slower one that we have/had.
I'm just not convinced some ununiformed guy from Saudi Arabia caught in a battle zone in Afghanistan with a weapon gets due process. John Walker, an American did.
Once historians have fully "processed" George W. Bush's tenure as President they will come to the same conclusion as the American people: One of the worst and least respected Presidents ever. And for him to say he didn't "sell his soul to accommodate the political process" is laughable at best.
The Bush sycophants here can continue to defend this man, but any thinking person knows the severe damage this man has done to our country's reputation.
but any thinking person knows the severe damage this man has done to our country's reputation.
Thinking person or thinking man? That's probably the difference.
"George Bush saved the world after September 11..."
This is true, and it trumps everything else. End of story.
And for him to say he didn't "sell his soul to accommodate the political process" is laughable at best.
Perhaps he will re-pardon Marc Rich in order to make you feel better.
In my experience, process is a substitute for actually doing something. It is a refuge from responsibility. Due process does not mean that the correct result obtained; it means everyone agrees we do not need to come any closer to correct. The question is always, what process is due, not what process will result in a correct outcome. There is a grand divide between evidence and truth, and cross-examination falls far sort of a truth finding engine.
I think Bush believes he did the right things and that others would prefer to talk about doing the right thing or divert action to committees and experts. Whether he did the right thing, he had either the courage or stupidity to do it. That is why he seems so alone.
Well that is about the only compliment i have heard people give bush, he has really pushed forward humanitarian causes, specifically in africa. But as for peace, he should leave that one out cause the wars he has sparked have been a major rub that the liberal illuminati used to get Obama elected. And rightfully so. But even though i am very glad Bush is gone! maybe he didn't do everything bad.
Americans had little patience with Detroit when they said in the 70s that designing a modern reliable gas-efficient car was a "process, a journey" that could take 20 years.
Nor would we be patient if we found "new attention on process" caused firefighters to take 4 times as long to get to a fire scene at 7 times the cost they used to.
Larry J said...
What is it with lawyers and their bitch god "process?" Truth doesn't matter. Justice doesn't matter. All that really matters is the archane and self-justifying "process" is followed.
Before Jews and the Talmudic approach infected US law, we prided ourselves on the "swift and certain" nature of US justice and the duty of lawyers to serve the truth and have the highest of moral standards. You know - the days of a crime rate 1/5th of todays, felony trials in weeks, even capital punishment taking from 5 months to a couple of years to carry out.....
No more. Now it is endless Talmudic process, justifying more billable hours, and constantly asserting that the High Lawyer-Priests are not co-equal with the People and their Representatives, but Supreme above them in all matters they decide to assert supremacy in.
Torts can take a decade, serious criminal offenses are almost never "over" - an endless appeals process mostly footed by the taxpayer beckons.
40 of us gathered for Jury Duty on Nov 26th. The cynicism was dripping as experienced jury duty selectees said that calling 40 for one trial was all theater that our employers would have to pay for the lost day. Even when half were let go by noon and they did voire dire on 7 of us...then the lawyers stopped and we all went back sure they were bargaining or making motions to delay. Yep, at 4 O'Clock, we "stooges" all got dismissed.
The 9/11 Mastermind, KSM, will likely go 8-10 years before lawyers cherished "due process" and "billable hours" are satiated and he even stands trial for the death of 2900. It cost us 32 million to try one bush league terrorist, Zack (the Zero) Moussaoui. In our state, a kidnapper who sprayed his DNA in and all over the body of a 13-year old he snatched off a sidewalk, her purse and other forensics found in his car and home, sentenced in 1985 - is now well into his 3rd decade of appeals.
Ann declares "rule of law! rule of law!" as if that will get Amercan laypersons genuflecting towards the lawyers and honoring their whims. But America has lost the competitive edge it once had, the tranquility of its cities, and substantial degredation in the ability of law to deter the rapacious thugs of Wall Street or the inner city 'hoods. Lost it - in no small part due to the efforts of lawyers to shield the likes of 9/11 terrorists from trial and to stifle innovation in the Tort Courts.
We did not respect the "rule of Detroit automakers", the "final word of FEMA in New Orleans" as they gave us lousy products...so why are we obligated to accept the lousy legal product our "Esquires" demand we swallow?
If we can find a better legal structure than the present Talmudic "endless legal process" one - why should we not seize that as eagerly as we took to Hondas or the Hurricane emergency response tactics of Gen Russell Honore over "Brownie" and FEMA??
Lots of alternatives are out there. The Napoleonic system, UK's "loser pays, no appeals" Tort system, Japanese civil law..even a secular version of Sharia Law may be less destructive than the present system is in achieving swift justice and allowing America to compete with the rest of the world....
Paul said..."George Bush saved the world after September 11..."
Like I said: sycophants to the end.
Michael_H said..."Perhaps he will re-pardon Marc Rich in order to make you feel better."
Yeah, the world will remember Marc Rich's pardon over the massive blunders attributable to Bush has over the past 8 years. (And be sure to pass the pardon rivia on to the families of the 4,000 dead and 30,000 wounded Americans...I'm sure they'll find it reassuring.)
And once again: sycophants to the end.
*Oh, and we haven't seen Bush's pardons yet...have we?
Paul said...
"George Bush saved the world after September 11..."
This is true, and it trumps everything else. End of story.
Bush struck back at a small band of Jihadis who were almost inconsequential compared to enemies America faced in the past. Between them and Iraq, Bush neglected his other duties. On two small enemies that lacked the weapons and means to even pose a modest-sized threat to us, let alone the existential threat of the Brits, Confederates, Nazis or Soviets or Chinese.
America faces rapid decline, with far greater economic and military threats than stray packs of primitive jihadis. We are staggering in debt with Bush doubling all previous national debt in his 8 years in office. We are unable to respond to hurricanes, lost most of our international clout, and - if you haven't noticed - the average American has now lost 40% of their wealth under Bush and a mostly Republican Congress - in home wealth and stock market equity.
Even the 2900!! dead of 9/11 - if you look at their deaths as acts of omission by the US and that preventing future "Evildoer!!" acts saved a thousand a year on average (a high estimate, lowball is almost none to a few hundred) at a cost of 1.8 trillion - well, 1.8 trillion spent to ensure Americans lacking health insurance would have saved far more. We estimate we lose 18,000 Americans a year because they lack affordable health insurance. That is 126,000 Americans lost in the last 7 years in preference to "stopping any Evildoer attacks at any cost". And we could discuss the loss of 95,000 Americans a year in "medical misadventures" and how an initial investment of 50 billion (less than what we paid and bribed Iraqis and Afghan officials with) and 25 billion a year could cut those "killings by omission" down 35-45%.
What Bush did does not trump the bad effects of things he did, and more importantly, all the grave and mounting national issues he ignored.
Cedarford... I've been reading that you are a "jew-hater" but this is the first time I've ever sludged my way through one your posts to prove it to myself.
You are also afflicted with "good ole days" syndrome, have confused legal process with emergency measures, bureaucratic process, and engineering/manufacturing.
Though not a lawyer, I did give birth to one, and she and I both agree that the U.S. legal process is a lot like the U.S. as a whole -- not the best, but the best anyone has come up with so far.
I cannot believe you actually mentioned a "secular Sharia" legal system, or even Napoleonic or UK systems as possibly better.
He did free 50 million people. Whether that sticks or is wasted is largely up to Obama. He is keeping Gates on, so that's a good sign.
W did many, many things wrong--okay, just about every other thing--but he freed 50 million people.
Donna B
I've kinda grown to appreciate Cedarford. He keeps this blog & commenters off the back of the Jesuits who educated me.
Hey Cedarford, did you know that the Bushes are descended from an old Jewish family named Bishenberger?
And Biden's family name was originally Bidenstein. (He’s bidin’ his stein!)
Sarah Palin? Obviously something Jewish there, though that's her married name. Palinofsky, I'll bet.
Also, Cedarford, America has lost its competitiveness because of Jews? And all these years I was told to watch out for those competitive Jews. What am I to do now?
The political process approximates that of the digestive process. The digestive process, to paraphrase Montaigne, exists to transform fine wine and food into piss and crap. Likewise with the political process: all the fine ideals of the republic become malodorous lumps of zoning law modifications after they have passed through the political process. Rangel, Cunningham, Dodd, Clinton's speaking fees: these are the floaters that remain in the bowl to tell us that our political process still functions......As regards Bush and Iraq: it is still too early to tell if this will be his floater or his halo. When you look at the endless rows of white crosses at Arlington, you cannot help but admire the strength of Lincoln to be able to absorb all this loss and tragedy. When you look at the endless rows of white crosses at Ypres and the Somme, you cannot help but despise the stupidity of the European leaders who allowed this pointless slaughter to continue.....Fifty million people have a chance for a better life because of Bush's actions. If that chance is actualized, Bush will deserve to be remembered well. If not, well, he will rank somewhere below Jefferson Davis and George Custer as a wartime leader.
And once again: sycophants to the end.
Self analysis, Michael? Quite accurate if so.
Donna B - What a surprise, the mother of a lawyer defending her daughter as "defender of the best law system, anywhere.."
Hard to defend as 100 new nations have come on line during America's greatest historical dominance - and all have rejected the US-Israel model.
A Talmudic, unappealable system (by the public, not criminals and tort litigants gifted with unlimited "procedure, due process"), with the worst ideas of the US Constitution embedded - lifetime judge appointments, impossibility in modern days of Amending the Constitution, family courts hostile to men, prisoners now fearless of jailtime..
Your daughter would achieve a higher civic good by blowing US soldiers at 50 a pop, or by being a ChinaMart greeter...than as a lawyer.
(Next to Israel, we have the highest per capita number of lawyers anywhere in the world. Mostly dedicated to making money, delaying justice, screwing innocent Americans sued by others. screwing Family Court appellant "male scum". Again, next to Israel, America has the highest per capita lawyer numbers..And in Israel, lawyers are an instrumental part of national Israeli agenda for money laundering, repressing minorities by Occupation Law administered by lawyers, fostering sanctuary for Jewish thieves, and screwing non-jews.)
I cannot believe you actually mentioned a "secular Sharia" legal system, or even Napoleonic or UK systems as possibly better.
The evidence is new nations look at Napoleonic Law, secular Sharia, "loser pays" torts - and see them as vastly superior to the US Talmudic model. The crime rate in Napoleonic, Sharia systems is 3 to 10 times lower than in the USA.
If you discard the discriminatory elements of religious Sharia and treat all as equals - you have swift and certain justice, a crime rate far lower than the USA, torts resolved in weeks, and men not treated as 2nd class in family court.
My preference - fit your daughter with kneepads if she wants to get rich. Being a whore is far more honorable than being a gun for hire. Have her defeat the Talmudic law tradition if she isn't in it for the money, but actually cares about justice. Back to swift and certain justice, and one lawyer per 1,000 instead of one parasite per 100..
The plus side of living in a police state is that there is so much less crime. The government has a monopoly on it.
I see that Althouse's commenters are still part of the 28 -- wait it's 19 percenters. What I don't understand is how her posts get on memeorandum.
The only difference I see in this post is that Cedarford has started using language that I had only seen when trolling BDSM chat sites. Perhaps this is where all of those terribly repressed men have come to vent.
"Perhaps this is where all of those terribly repressed men have come to vent."
Which explains your presence here.
The focus should be on justice not process. There is no reason why foreigners captured outside the USA in combat should have constitutional rights. Its certainly not in the constitution.
Lawyers and judges should be kept out military and foreign affairs to the greatest extent possible.
""I would like to be a person remembered as a person who, first and foremost, did not sell his soul in order to accommodate the political process.""
Who knew that W. took his inspiration from Ol' Blue Eyes?
Yes, there were times, Im sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall;
And did it my way.
Ive loved, Ive laughed and cried.
Ive had my fill; my share of losing.
And now, as tears subside,
I find it all so amusing.
To think I did all that;
And may I say - not in a shy way,
No, oh no not me,
I did it my way.
For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught.
To say the things he truly feels;
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows I took the blows -
And did it my way!
Blake said.... Without process, you reduce society to a contest of wills, which is not much different from might-makes-right.
The Islamists are not part of our society, and they are engaged in a contest of wills with us whether we like it or not. They intend to conquer us. Our criminal justice system is not suited to dealing with them. They simply behead our citizens that they capture, after they make a spectacle of them. They make no pretense of having a 'process.' If we do not defeat them, it won't matter whether we have a 'process' or not.
Do you really think that Bush is talking about legal process?
Of course he's not. He's talking about going through the motions, the political back-patting and noise making. The immoral valuing of "making nice" and ensuring our popularity over doing what is right and caring about people.
No, we can't and shouldn't do everything, but what actual good has the *process* done people in Darfur or Burma? The *process* hasn't even got those people gravestones for their graves. It does nothing. What good does the *process* of going through the UN do for anyone? All that make-work, all that busy-ness, and what individual is helped? No one. Unless someone acts, the *process* is never ending and will never end. It doesn't matter what the goal is... eventually there will be no more people in Burma to kill while the world discusses what to do about the problem. That's one example, but it applies to anything.
And Bush is hated... at least by those who object to his failure to accommodate the political process, internationally and at home.
Do you think it was beyond his ability to be *liked* if that was what he valued? He made a choice to do what (he thought) was right.
There is no way to know if his decisions were the right ones since we can't see the results of alternatives, but please lets not operate under the illusion and delusion that he should have given those decisions over to the political "process" of attempting to move through the international political community and get anything done.
America's reputation.
We kind of screwed that up with Europe in 1776. That France tried the same trick and screwed it up royally didn't help our image with those whom determine "America's Reputation" for those who care a whit about "America's Reputation."
Only when America is reduced to rubble will the Left Bank en masse lament our fall, with appropriate jaundice.
Kind of sad to see people whining about it, really.
Time and time again you embarrassed yourself by defending Bush's contempt for the Constitution (Jose Padilla could be blinking in Morse Code!). You didn't have the courage to stand up when it counted. If you have suddenly had a change of heart, at least have the guts to admit you were wrong and apologize for being such a coward.
If you want to be the first to do somethng, do something right. That's a plan the left-wing illuminati just don't get.
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