7:58: In the comments, we're setting the terms for the drinking game: I said:
Take a sip if McCain says "my friends" or if Obama says "uh."Palladian said:
Dear God, woman, are you trying to kill people? Alcohol is poisonous in large quantities!8:03: May the best man win. Jim Lehrer sounds stern! First question: take a position on the finance crisis.
8:04: Obama: "Move swiftly... and wisely... have oversight...." Don't pad the bank accounts of the rich. The whole problem is the fault of the other party. McCain: He begins with "thoughts and prayers" for "the lion of the Senate," Ted Kennedy, who's in the hospital now. He emphasizes that Republicans and Democrats are working together in dealing with the crisis.
8:08: Lehrer pushes them to take a position on the plan. Obama says he hasn't seen it. Ooh, I just saw Jon Stewart savage McCain last night for saying he hadn't read it. Obama's not taking a position. Come on! Take a position! He doesn't. McCain says "sure," he'll vote for it but immediately veers into an anecdote about Eisenhower and railing against greed. "Greed is rewarded." Both candidates look fresh and sharply outlined on the HDTV.
8:13: Lehrer wants them to talk to each other, but they don't much seem to want to. Next question: Are there fundamental differences between what McCain and Obama would do about the economy? McCain says we need to get spending under control... "earmarking as a gateway drug." Obama's a big spender. Obama said earmarks are abused, but earmarks are only $18 billion of the budget and McCain wants $300 billion in tax cuts. So the difference (in what they promise) is clear: McCain would cut spending and Obama would collect more taxes. McCain says those earmarks corrupt people, and Obama is proposing $800 million in new spending. Obama looks annoyed. He doesn't know where that number comes from. McCain looks a little pleased, I think, because he knows he's gotten to Obama.
8:20: McCain says pork-barrel spending is "rife," it's appalling. We see Obama raising a finger. He wants to be called on. Lots of arguing back and forth about who supported what.
8:26: Lehrer asks what sacrifices will be required. Obama mainly talks about things he wants to spend on. McCain says we've let government get out of control. He'd cut ethanol subsidies. (Good!) He'd eliminate cost-plus contracts. He speaks of saving $6 billion on one deal. Lehrer presses them, and Obama starts talking about spending again. (By the way, he is not saying "uh.") Lehrer gets excited about doing something different to deal with the current crises. McCain mentions a spending freeze. Obama objects and mentions another thing he'd like to spend on (early childhood education). Lehrer reasks the question: What difference will the crisis make? Obama talks about values. McCain talks about spending cuts. Obama questions McCain's record. McCain says, for a second time, that he wasn't elected Miss Congeniality in the Senate. (Should have put that in the drinking game.)
8:39: What have they learned from Iraq? McCain says we've learned how to fight the right way and to avoid defeat. Obama thinks we've learned we shouldn't have started the war in the first place.
Whoops. I've been calling Lehrer MacNeil... corrected.
8:44: McCain excoriates Obama for failing to support victory and for not acknowledging victory. Obama says the difference in opinion was only about whether there was a timetable or not. There's a hot dispute here. McCain gesticulates and smiles. Obama looks a little pissed off and interrupts a few times with the muttered phrase "That's not true."
8:51: Obama calls Pakistan "Pah-ki-stahn." Repeatedly.
8:52: McCain is not prepared to threaten Pakistan. You don't aim a gun if you aren't prepared to pull the trigger.
8:54: Obama denies that he talked about attacking Pahkistahn. He's just ready to "take out" al Qaeda if we know they are in there. He teases McCain about singing "bomb bomb Iran."
9:00: McCain stresses his empathy for soldiers. He's got a bracelet. Obama's got a bracelet too. He cares too. Jac writes (he's live-blogging too):
"I've got a bracelet." "I've got a bracelet too!" Are these serious adults running for president, or is this summer camp?9:04: McCain gets fired up talking about Obama's willingness to talk without precondition with Ahmadinejad. Ahmadinejad is talking about exterminating Israel, he exclaims. McCain stumbles over the name Ahmadinejad a bit, and I'm not sure if he's expressing genuine hatred for the man or is just getting fired up about a strong line of attack against Obama. Obama doesn't seem that irritated. He laughs a little. When he gets his turn, Obama needles him about, among other things, Spain. McCain inserts what must be a prepared barb: "I don't even have a seal yet."
9:15: We get a "my friend" out of McCain as he says Obama is "parsing words" about "preconditions, and he emphasizes how long he's been friends with Henry Kissinger. (Obama had cited Kissinger for the proposition that we ought to speak to everyone.)
9:18: The subject is Russia. McCain accuses Obama of naivete. He says: "I looked into Putin's eyes and I saw three letters, a K, a G, and a B." McCain is reeling off names of people and places in Georgia and Ukraine. He's got a strategy of displaying experience and making Obama seem green. Obama's given a chance and he mainly says he agrees.
9:25: Much crossfire over nuclear waste.
9:26: The last question is about terrorism. The main distinction here is that Obama views Iraq as a distraction and McCain thinks it's central.
9:31: Both men have been sharp and clear, and I haven't noticed mistakes. As expected, McCain is more passionate, but he never crossed the line into irascibility. Obama is cooler, but he never fell into that professorial mode that he uses sometimes. He certainly didn't stumble and babble incoherently, which is what his opponents say he does.
9:48: They didn't much go for that idea of talking directly to each other, did they? I mean, other than Obama's frequent assertion that McCain was getting something wrong.
9:54: In the end, I'd say, McCain made more good points and got in more punches, but Obama stood his ground and maintained his stature on stage next to McCain, even as McCain repeatedly tried to portray him as a lightweight. I should add that McCain never seemed too old, short, or lacking in vigor, even on HDTV. Obama looked fine too, and I never saw that upturned face, with the eyes gazing downward, that made him seem supercilious in those old debates with Hillary Clinton.
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«सर्वात जुने ‹थोडे जुने 833 पैकी 801 – 833Victoria, thanks for posting those photos. What a god-awful dress Michelle Obama is in, though! That poor woman, what have they done to her? Where has her Jackie O, classic sleeveless shift dress, so lovely on her, gone? The one thing Michelle always had going for her was her style, it seemed to me, but the way she dressed at the convention, and now this hideous thing -- it's a makeover from hell, I think. Or possibly by a Republican operative.
I agree that photo of Obama is very good. He looks confident and happy, which is not a look he wore very often during the debate.
nighty night then
*facepalm*
Althouse? No one goes there anymore; it's too popular. 803 comments? Yeesh!
Ahem, one more:
View From The Left Side
That's from the SLOG commentary section, 99% Obama, 1% McCain according to a pre-debate poll.
Peter Hoh was right, they did a good job, maybe even better than we did here. But that's only because we lacked their shady language, their ineffable snobbishness about their fellow Americans, and a shocking lack of respect for anyone, including themselves.
Check out the comments on the link. Monday morning quarterbacking is all very well, but real-time does not lie.
Cheers,
Victoria
I'm late to the party.
I thought Obama won the debate. He came across as more calm and collegial than McCain. At the beginning of the debate when they shook hands Obama gave McCain a hearty handshake and McCain looked away. Several times Obama acknowledged that McCain was correct on an issue but McCain seemed like he just despised Obama. Overall, I thought it was a poor performance by McCain and a good one by Obama. At the very least I think that Obama is the better statesman/diplomat, and I am now more nervous about putting McCain in charge of our military.
Thank god I got drunk early and went to bed early--that drinking game was a killer.
Drudge has McCain winning 2 to 1, but of course everyone KNOWS drudge is just a hack. Unlike, say, Chris Matthews. The only decent political analysts these days are Michael Barone and Stuart Taylor, and they don't usually comment on "debates." There will be a plethora of polls in the near future, so we can see what the American public who watched this thing have to say.
This debate, and subsequent debates, will only confirm what we partisans already think about our candidates; no minds will be changed on either side--but it may be worthwhile to rememb er, this debate was aimed at the 15-18 percent of the undecideds. Thats the critical demo.
oops at the 15-18% OF THE ELECTORATE who are undecideds....
Roj, if this is true:
oops at the 15-18% OF THE ELECTORATE who are undecideds....
And I have no doubt it is, then Obama will win. Got a hold of one indie-friend (she's from Missouri, her folks are religious) who says she's now leaning Obama. The other texted me that Obama makes a change from the "old guy" and she preferred him in the debate.
(White middle-class females, one a lawyer, the other an EMT)
But it's interesting. My mother went to a hen party of varied friends during the debate.
A hodge-podge group of well-to-do women, many Jewish ladies amongst them, aged 45-55, some PUMAs.
100% McCain.
In fact, they are even more determined to vote for McCain now, after seeing his performance last night. Moreover, they are willing to spread the word to their other friends.
We'll see. All things being equal, if we get people to the polls, McCain will win and I honestly don't think it'll be close.
Next up: Palin. The Sloggers thought she might not even show up.
Palin has underperformed. She needs to hit one more out of the park. I think she will.
Cheers,
Victoria
Joan! You have to check out the comments over at SLOG about Michelle Obama. One guy said, why is she wearing my couch? ;)
BTW, Michelle Obama dresses exquisitely. I love her choice of bold, vibrant colours.
That's why she should stomp on this dress, set it on fire, and bury it in Oprah's Garden to Nowhere. God, that black bow -- what was THAT all about? No, Michelle, bad, Michelle, NO.
Cheers,
Victoria
I spent yesterday driving around Western Kentucky and Western Tennessee on business (too old to be a road warrior I fear), but I was struck by the "yard sign/bumper sticker" metric. Far more Obama than McCain in area that is socially very conservative. FWIW. That said, I don't see Obama doing very well in either state; and the states that matter are the battleground states.
Interesting campaign so far. I am thinking that the Obama strategy has morphed into a strictly defensive game where he tries to avoid mistakes. It may work because the economic situation, rightly or wrongly, always favors democrats and fortunately for Obama has taken Iraq off the table as a foreign policy issue. I don't think either candidate has come to terms with a resurgent Russia as what I feel will te the dominant foreign policy issue in the next several years.
I'm hearing a lot of "it was a tie" from my strongly--evangelistically so--Obama leaning friends.
Ultimately, it comes down to who a person trusts. My big problem with Obama is that while I think he says nice things I don't have any hope that he'll change and do those things. I don't see anything in his actions to justify me trusting him.
McCain goes out and does what he says. I disagree with him on certain issues, but I've no doubt that he'll show in action what he believes. For the issues I do agree with him, that's a plus.
I'm also thinking of McCain in the Republican debates. I never thought he did good. Again and again Thompson or Romney or even Huckabee would outshine. McCain is notably better now.
Premiere Obama he is Виктор, victor.
But no need for to vote. Already Obama he understand how to get 99% of vote! Not debate. Nyет!
Obama has already Ministry of Information, now called The Barack Obama Truth Squad.
"Prosecutors and sheriffs from across Missouri are joining "The Barack Obama Truth Squad."
Is for to force Правда Pravda, the truth, be told, and лежит lies against the Party are forbidden.
How well he learns. Already the хозяин master. да, all disagreement are the lie and illegal.
I call on all lawyer and sheriff and state prosecutor: followers of McCane **spit** to be prisoner like him!
They are but the лжец, liars.
Pogo: I love the schtick--I am glad that someone else has noted the thuggish tactics being used by the Obama campaign--if thats his natural instinct, then this is reason enough to vote against him. Of course, he is as constituional scholar, so perhaps he has a somewhat different reading of the first amendment.
Братья Brother!
When to make the омлет omelet, a few eggs must to break. For to save the constitution of US we must first destroy it, most especially the Amendment 1 and 2.
One things for sure, whichever one of these bozos is elected America is in for endless wars. Both want to extend NATO into Russia's front yard and Obama, if we're to believe him, wants to ramp Afghanistan up just as Iraq is ramping down. And WE CAN"T PAY FOR ANY OF THIS BS ANYMORE!
Turns out Pogo is KGB. Trust him? Nyet me!
Not KGB. Nyет!
OGPU, the
Okefenokee Glee and Perloo Union.
Saturday Morning Quarterbacking: McCain by a nose but really, a wash. McCain didn't stumble or look "old." Obama didn't stumble and did better than I thought he would. Unto the next debate. PS. What can I do about this hangover?
All these comments, and I get one eaten by blogger.
My teenaged daughter watched, and she commented that McCain lisped and couldn't naturally move one side of his face. I explained the whole POW thing and she was suitably chastened.
Her overall assessment: Boring.
820 comments! What explains you people's fascination with this symmetrical pair of giant boobs?
I have one little weensie question this morning:
When in the hell do you people sleep??
I mean, I eventually went to bed. I didn't sleep that much for two reasons:
a. I'm getting older, and need, at most 6-1/2 hours.
b. I have the flu, and sniffles keep me awake.
But compared to, say, Victoria, I'm a regular Rip van Winkle.
What gives??
Not that anyone cares at #823, but I am a bit tired of how we play in the rest of the world also.
America has lost the world's respect? (Sounds like an Obama Family issue.)
I think I am noticing that I have lost respect for parts of the world where sharia law is being integrated into legal systems where once women had rights.
I am losing respect for places where "Asian" youths can destroy whole neighborhoods and no one wants to identify who they really are ... out of fear.
Why should that gain my respect?
And yes, I have lived overseas also.
Hey, Theo, everybody's up all night 'cause they're fucking nuts!!
Either that or tweakers.
That's Palin's problem. Too much ice in Alaska.
Self appointed threadherder here: abandon this thread and scroll up!
And I second Theo's remarks re Ms Victoria.
Victoria is a medical resident. Sleep is optional in those cases...I once was a medical student...I know the deal.
Good morning everyone!
Immediately after the debate, CBS News interviewed a nationally representative sample of nearly 500 debate watchers assembled by Knowledge Networks who were "uncommitted voters" - voters who are either undecided about who to vote for or who say they could still change their minds.
39% said Obama won the debate.
24% said McCain won the debate.
37% thought it was a tie.
Nearly half of those uncommitted voters who watched the debate said that their image of Obama changed for the better as a result.
Just 8% say their opinion of Obama got worse
32% have improved their image of McCain.
_________________________________
Fox News:
Obama 47.9%
McCain 43.7%
_________________________________
Right Wing News:
51% Obama
McCain 49%
_________________________________
CNN Opinion Poll:
Obama 51%
McCain 38%
тысяча 1000 !!!
Counting socialist style.
I am not a medical student anymore! I just don't need sleep and am snotty like one. :P
Cheers,
Victoria
vbspurs said...
I am not a medical student anymore! I just don't need sleep and am snotty like one. :P
Cheers,
Victoria
2:33 PM
Cheers, darlin'!
mccain admitted he hadn't read the three page outline paulson proposed.
subsequently, the congresscritters issued two 40+ page proposals.
these proposals were then debated and tinkered with, and, as of the debate, no plan was concrete and agreed to. this is what obama was talking about.
so difficult ann?
Hey, are all the comments displayed on one page now???
The answer is: Yes, but only after you comment.
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