The McCain blames Obama. But does Obama blame McCain?
AND: The House Republicans blame Pelosi. She "struck the tone of partisanship," they say, striking the tone of partisanship.
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२६६ टिप्पण्या:
«सर्वात जुने ‹थोडे जुने 266 पैकी 201 – 266Didn't you know, michael? I got my Ph.D. in creation science from the Fundie Fundamentalist University of Fundamentalism.
Watch out, Michael, Palin is gonna turn you into a dinosaur if you don't shut up. She's a witch you know.
I don't know what in the hell Michael is talking about.
If he doesn't believe me in what I just wrote about my Evangelical friends, well, he can just go take that flying leap.
I frankly don't care about Palin's similar whacky beliefs, as I grew up around Mormons and Evangelicals, and generally found them solid people, except for some strange kicks they were on.
I now live in hoity-toity land, and, guess what, they're around here, too, God love 'em.
Are you a Palintologist, if you think Allley Oop had a pet named Dinny?
The House Republicans blame Pelosi.
The House Democrats blame McCain.
I do not really care who blames whom.
I am sure you can understand what I am saying.
Yes, and the Republicans' inability to deliver their votes cost me $17,000 of that.
I guess I don't understand the confidence that they could've saved you that nor the assurance that it won't come back. Is it really as simple as "Here's $700B and now everything will be fine!"?
I mean, it could be. Tulips and all that. I just don't know.
Michael, this Philp Munger?
When did he leave the comfort of his "progressive" circle to have a conversation with Palin?
He doesn't even mention it on his blog. Funny, uh?
I got my Ph.D. in creation science from the Fundie Fundamentalist University of Fundamentalism.
McG! FFUFer!
Hail to the Fundie Fundie
And to the mighty Fundament
We gladly give our hearts to thee
And to the Firmament!
Oh, Fight On FFuFers
Win all battles
Skirmishes and wars
Against darwinist liberals
And plated dinosaurs!
OMG MICHAEL!!1
Well how about this: Jesse Jackson, Jr., Obama campaign co-chair, voted against the bailout.
i can't believe this: you people agree with palin?
wow.
I also hear she believes that some dude 2000 years ago healed a bunch of people, then got executed, then came back to life.
Aside from the fact that I don't care what other person's beliefs are. If I You believe in...who knows, pink elephants and rainbows, and The Messiah (PBUH). And that would be just fine. The problem with your beliefs is that you want everyone to adopt them...no, you want to force them upon everyone. And those who resist are cast into your vast cauldron of hate and silly epithets.
I have not heard until now that Sarah Palin is planning on imposing her beliefs on anyone. She hasn't done that in Wasilla, or in Alaska at large, and these are smaller places "to work". I can't imagine she is planning on doing at the national scale. If you have any proof to the contrary, from a credible non-partisan source, bring it on.
I hear global warming killed the dinosaurs.
Hey! Global warming killed the dinosaurs, which helped produce oil, which when burned which helps cause global warming.
See, nature has everything in balance.
I think this is a photograph of that dude.
So, what does everybody think about...bigfoot?
Yes, and Michael believes that the commenters here actually believe in what he wishes we were smoking, which is even more unbelievable. Talk about credulity.
Michael. It's a thread about the BAILOUT. Give up on the dinosaurs for crissakes.
michael said...
So, what does everybody think about...bigfoot?
9:50 PM
I hope he finds you alone in the bushes...you know big feet...
"Michael. It's a thread about the BAILOUT. Give up on the dinosaurs for crissakes."
In Michael-Land you don't give up on the dinosaurs, the dinosaurs give up on YOU!
erniecu73 said..."Aside from the fact that I don't care what other person's beliefs are."
This isn't about "beliefs," you moron.
This about the common sense and the intellectual capacity of someone who could be one heartbeat from being President.
We're talking about someone conceivably being the leader of the free world, and by the way...representing the country of which you are a citizen.
Even you must understand this.
Back to the proper topic. Most members of the Congressional Black Caucus voted no. What were they afraid of, losing to Republicans in their districts?
If Pelosi wanted the votes she could have had them. EASILY.
Palladian, you simpleton piece of shit: YES, I know what the thread is about, but do you not understand this is the person who could be instrumental in the implementation of the bailout??
Are you drunk?
Stupid?
Do YOU want someone who believes this to be representing your country??
supporting or opposing the bailout is not about the equities markets...shouldn't blame the congresscritters for wall street's reaction to not getting The Big Handout.
and revenant, your math needs some help. 12 dems switching sides is a 24 vote swing, aka, a 217-216 victory.
michael said...
erniecu73 said..."Aside from the fact that I don't care what other person's beliefs are."
This isn't about "beliefs," you moron.
This about the common sense and the intellectual capacity of someone who could be one heartbeat from being President.
We're talking about someone conceivably being the leader of the free world, and by the way...representing the country of which you are a citizen.
Even you must understand this.
9:57 PM
What the fuck do dinosaurs have to do with someone's intellectual abilities to govern?
Come on, explain it.
And you still haven't shown me how she has tried to impose her beliefs on others.
Ernie, please, don't feed the troll. Just mock him.
Gutless.
mike,
palin is clearly a shocking idiot. no, that does not bother the commenters here.
Compared to the pick I was hoping McCain would make she's Einstein.
Compared to the pick I was hoping McCain would make she's Einstein
Some folks call it a "kaiser blade". I call it a "sling blade".
mcg, we'll feed him to the dinosaurs
On topic now, I wonder if the media will notice these particulars of the bailout vote.
* The Dow fell nearly 778 points today, or almost 7%. It was the worst single-day point loss in American history. The S&P 500 dropped 8.7% and the Nasdaq fell 9.1%.
* As of today, the Dow Jones is lower now than it was the day Bush took office in 2001.
* This afternoon, responding to the economic crisis, the Obama campaign issued a statement calling for calm, encouraging lawmakers to keep working, and urging investors not to panic.
* The McCain campaign attacked Obama.
Actually, I'd feel a lot better if it was a dinosaur what nibbled on me 401K.
Think velociraptors loose in Fidelity's main offices.
Michael dear, you left out this part, under the headline "Obama urges calm, attacks McCain":
He laid the blame for the crisis squarely on the Bush administration and Republicans - specifically Republican presidential opponent John McCain -- for not backing greater economic regulations.
"They said they wanted to let (the economy) run free, but instead they let it run wild," he said.
So far the bail out plan is like offering a lollipop to a rapist and hoping he'll leave you alone.
Mommy, say what you will, but please give me a reason to vote for John McCain.
And don't forget Sarah...
Michael dear, you left out this part, under the headline "Obama urges calm, attacks McCain":
Convenient, that.
But at least it was on topic.
Who here would let someone who believe dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time, and that says they saw human footprints in dinosaur tracks...run their publicly traded corporation?
Now remember, you have stockholders to consider.
Dinos Live!
I have a pet dinosaur. It told me to vote McCain, so I'm going to. It also told me that the bailout plan sucks. My dinosaur is sad that Michael doesn't believe he exists. Rawr. /steps in footprints
Back to the bailout: So will we end up with a bill that's even worse, no bill, or a bill that's stripped down to the essentials (if they exist) and doesn't cede enormous power to the Fed?
LOL.
I had to check on the dinosaur thread before I shut down and now I'm in trouble with my dear husband.
Fie on you, Dinosaurs! Fie!
Michael, the dinosaurs are calling from inside your house!!!
Back to the bailout: So will we end up with a bill that's even worse, no bill, or a bill that's stripped down to the essentials (if they exist) and doesn't cede enormous power to the Fed?
Depends. If this was just a ploy (or if they think they can get the votes they need by porking it up a bit), we'll get a worse one. If it gets shut down over and over again, they might try a really honest one.
Do we get out of this without the Fed gaining enormous power? No, I don't see how. Not with the constant drumbeat.
Listen, Republicans cannot handle money - Bush came into office with a zero deficit courtesy of Bill Clinton and now the country is billions in debt
.
Yes, and the Republicans' inability to deliver their votes cost me $17,000 of that.
Cry me a river. The Wachovia stock I inherited through 5 generations went from $300k to $10k in two years. It's now worth less than last year's dividend.
McCain’s Economic Plan For Nation: 'Everyone Marry A Beer Heiress'
Obama Promises To Stop America's Shitty Jobs From Going Overseas
House GOP puts re-election first, country second and your 401(k) last
"October surprise"- McCain's had two already and it's still September
Obama Promises To Stop America's Shitty Jobs From Going Overseas
Not true, he will tame dinosaurs and make them work for us, FOR FREE!
Dinosaurs
German Valise
Astrotroller
I love you Michael.
theo says: "I frankly don't care about Palin's similar whacky beliefs..."
Don't be an idiot.
I wouldn't care either except for the fact she's running for Vice President.
This isn't about individual "beliefs," it's about competence and being representative of our country.
Ouch, Ralph. Sorry about that. My mother used to have Wachovia stock, which in those days seemed about as boring and solid as you could get.
As I mentioned elsewhere, I lost a lot more money in the dot-com meltdown, but I have never been through an event like this, where I lost money in a few hours in direct response to political events.
As you might imagine, I'm pissed at the politicians, including my own Congressman.
I hope the market comes back for everybody's sake, but this is my retirement money, and I don't have a long time horizon to rebuild it. I was as conservatively invested in equities as could be, and I still lost enough to buy a small car in about 4 hours.
A little ouchlet compared to $300K, but still enough for a petit frisson.
erniecu73 asks: "What the fuck do dinosaurs have to do with someone's intellectual abilities to govern?"
It's not about "dinosaurs," you stupid fuck.
It's about someone who may end up being one heartbeat from being the President of our country believing humans lived at the same point in time.
Do YOU believe humans lived at the same point in time??
Do YOU believe Sarah Palin saw footprints inside the tracks left by dinosaurs?
Do YOU think someone who believes the planet is only 6,000 years old...is qualified to be the Vice President of the United States??
MichaelOldSon:
Can't read, eh? If you could, you would have seen that I said I would trust my life to two friends who hold similar whacky beliefs about creationism.
They are both enormously talented and competent. One of them is the father of five kids, one of whom is profoundly disabled, and who they chose to carry to term and care for, just like the Palins.
You can have no idea of the sacrifice, fortitude and love among that family. I don't care if they think the moon is made of green cheese, if their beliefs carry them through the situation they are in, and produce the wonderful children they have, well, their odd notions are worthy of anyone's respect, even if one disagrees with their unfortunately crude view of the Creation story
I see something very similar among the Palins, and, while I'm not sure about Gov. Palin's political fitness, her beliefs and personal story are, to me and to many millions, worthy of respect, if not imitation.
Speaking of odd beliefs, why do you repeatedly post the same insulting remarks? Do you actually believe you are having the slightest influence here? Do you think you will troll this blog to drive off the rather conservative commentariat and replace it with the sorts of "liberals" more to your liking?
Neither or those things are true in the slightest extent. Most of the conservative and moderate commenters here have been through troll attacks you cannot imagine, and they are still here and will continue to be here. And you are not about to change anybody's mind with your tactics.
You resemble some of those Evangelical Christians you mock, carrying signs and importuning strangers with the "Good News," when in fact, no one in their right mind would ever be converted by such tactics. Is hanging around Althouse rehearsing talking points your idea of "bearing witness," being mocked and spat upon for the good of your soul?
They say, "Ignore a troll," but I'm putting it to you as clearly as I can: You are embarrassing yourself and doing your cause no good. Write reasonably as you would wish to be addressed, and you will be respected and perhaps have some influence. Continue what you're doing, and be shunned and ignored.
When Obama said that injecting Presidential politics into the process could cause more harm than good, that was not abdication of leadership, that was true leadership done Obama-style. You don't need to be the center of attention. Amazing things happen when you don't care who gets the credit. And terrible things can happen when someone hell-bent on politicizing an issue for his own personal benefit does it in a very clumsy way. Let’s review the facts:
1. McCain tried to make himself the center of attention on this bailout for political reasons -- announcing with great fanfare his campaign suspension (a total fraud) and his not decision not to attend the debate until the problem was resolved (also a fraud), allegedly for the sake of putting country over politics.
2. McCain then took 22 hours to get to DC, stopping for at least one interview, the Clinton Global Initiative conference (to give an address), several fancy meals, a political meeting with the Lady Rothschild, and of course stiffing David Letterman, before he actually got there. Some crisis.
3. Once in DC on Thursday, he sat in on a few meetings -- the one that Obama attended (at the White House), and a few more with various GOP house and senate members. By late morning on Friday, he had decided to leave for Mississippi to attend the debate after all, the one he had cancelled for the sake of a nation, after little more than a few hours of contact with GOP members. He never once talked to a Democrat except at the White House meeting from what I have read, and he said little at the White House meeting -- but he did indulge the GOP House Caucuses' weird tax cut, private government backed insurance and deregulation plan that Paulsen said would not work.
4. Obama attended the White House meeting also. He also was integral, four days earlier, putting his imprint in conjunction with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, on the 5-part Democratic plan to improve the Paulsen blank check plan -- adding oversight and judicial review, taxpayer buy-in and pay-back in the form of equity in companies whose loans were bought, and thus protection of taxpayer investment, more limited spending authority (with congressional approval required to exceed $250 Million and up to $100 Million capable of being pulled back), no golden parachutes to be paid for with tax dollars (weakened thanks to Paulson/Bush and the GOP), and provision for bankruptcy relief for struggling homeowners facing foreclosure (which the Democratic negotiators ultimately dropped to make the legislation palatable to Republicans) -- all features that were missing from the Paulsen Plan (which McCain had not even read by that point) a plan which represented Bush executive abuse at its worst. But Obama did NOT inject himself conspicuously into the process but to do it behind the scenes, because his judgment was to try to de-politicize it. He did call in constantly during the week with Paulson, Dodd, Frank, Reid and Pelosi -- not the center of attention, but by no means being passive either. McCain actually suggested that Osama’s unwillingness to suspend his campaign and cancel the debate was political and the standing on the sidelines while others (i.e., McCain) led. Obama was not being a big enough prima donna to satisfy McCain.
5. Many pundits thought that McCain had in fact politicized things at the White House meeting by indulging the GOP House caucus, which was by then making serious noises like they were going to stick Democrats with approving this Bush administration fiasco and then run against them over it, clearly seeing their own political survival as paramount over McCain's need to be the White Knight who would sacrifice his most prized possession -- the presidency -- to secure support for the emergency legislation. Others thought McCain and his Rovian strategists (or, more aptly, tacticians) were concocting a set up, in effect orchestrating what appeared to be a bigger problem than there really was, and then having Sir John twist arms to bring enough if the recalcitrant GOP members to the table to vote yes, and then claim credit for saving the nation in "selfless" devotion to Country First -- you can't script this stuff! Literally!
6. Then, sensing that his campaign suspension stunt was backfiring a little, McCain changed his mind and attended the debate after all (which did not go as well as he needed it to go, owing to his personality disorder, which is somewhere between PTSD, a generalized anger disorder or simply being a pure dick). Post debate polls showed a statistically significant bounce for Obama, especially from independents. And while much of that may be due to the drama queen act McCain was gambling on, and that looked contrived, it nevertheless set the stage for an even higher stakes McCain campaign tactic on Monday morning.
7. But first, McCain then returned to DC after the debate, but according to numerous reports, he never actually left Arlington VA to come up to the Hill (where senior members were hacking out a difficult and painful deal that they all hated, but felt duty bound to pursue). He and Cindy had dinner with the Lieberman’s at CityZen, an Asian Fusion Gourmet Restaurant that is one of DC’s best, and most expensive, restaurants. In the meantime, Barney Frank and 10-20 others were eating pizza and working for hours on end to get this done, Barney Frank is one of the real heroes here, taking on an exceptionally difficult effort to take the 3 page pile of crap Paulson had brought to the Congress for approval, and making it halfway livable. And at the same time, McCain (who was literally doing nothing) pretended that he was handling this crisis in a proactive way that demonstrated his leadership (and Obama's inadequacy). It turns out that this crisis, which supposedly compelled him to suspend his campaign, could be handled from his cell phone in an office at his campaign HQ (and from his penthouse condo) in Arlington VA -- "phoning it in" after all, after accusing Obama of being inadequate for merely phoning it in (instead of rushing to DC to follow his leadership). Who knows, maybe seeing the Capitol Building from his hi-rise penthouse condo in Arlington gave him new insight into government regulation of the financial markets, like Palin's view of Russia from Alaska gives her foreign policy insights.
8. Then McCain left town -- before the vote on Monday -- to campaign in a swing state, claiming not only a victory for the nation's wellbeing, but a personal victory, a triumph of leadership. He claimed leadership while asserting that Obama merely stood on the sidelines. He touted his central role in delivering a bipartisan accord to address this emergency national crisis (and had several campaign surrogates making variations of the same boast -- all variations on "Thank God for John McCain" -- on every cable network). Except this time he celebrated the touchdown before actually getting into the end zone. It's a bitch, celebrating too soon in a conspicuous way and then dropping the ball. So when the GOP failed to deliver the 80 measly votes they promised -- less than 1/2 of their caucus (of which only 1/3 of the GOP members supported the emergency legislation, and McCain's high profile position) -- he was humiliated. His own party stabbed him in the back. The Democrats, by contrast, delivered 140 votes, which is over 60% support in a delegation that hated giving any quarter to Hank Paulson and George W. Bush, but did so for the sake of addressing a credit crunch that threatened to crush an already weakened economy. It was supposed to be a bipartisan majority (where both parties had members opposed to the bailout who would vote no). Boehner promised 80 votes, and they scheduled the vote. And they fell well short, and it failed. And here is the most damning fact of all: not one member of the Arizona GOP delegation -- McCain's home delegation -- voted in favor of the emergency legislation. So much for Sir John, the White Knight.
9. So what did McCain do, now that he was trapped? What else? Cantor and Boehner and then McCain's chief advisors blamed a floor speech by Nancy Pelosi as the reason why a dozen GOP members pussied out and threw a temper tantrum and voted down a bill that upon which McCain's election was now completely dependent, and in doing so brought about a $1.2 Trillion loss of market value in a single day. A lot of people saw their retirement plans get crushed yesterday, They should think about that when they vote for Congress and for President this year. Reckless John, the Maverick, had single-handedly landed credit for fumbling a bailout that gave rise to an immediate $1.2 Trillion loss of value in the stock market. The price of McCain's recklessness.
10. To make matters worse, McCain then had the chutzpah to blame Obama personally out of one side of his mouth while saying that we should not fix blame, we should solve the problem, out of the other side of his mouth. I'm not sure when he found time to accompany Sarah Palin back onto Katie Couric's news show for even more humiliation.
11. In the meantime, Obama, in his only public appearance today, sought to assure and calm people down. He implored them not to panic, pointed out that things get rocky sometime in Congress, and that it could still be worked out,. And then he set back to work on solving the problem, again, outside the spotlight, without calling undue attention to his role in the process.
12. Just watch -- he will lead the Dems to pass a more modest bailout ($150 Billion, revisit in January) along the lines suggested by former Labor Secretary and Brandeis economics professor, Robert Reich on Monday, that will pass later this week, without the self-important fanfare that McCain could not resist -- the boasting and the self-congratulations, that ended with McCain's national humiliation.
OK, #12 hasn't happened yet, and it may never happen, but #1 - #11 have happened, and what they show is that there is one candidate who is without doubt unqualified temperamentally to serve as President. A McCain presidency would be exhausting and corrosive to the US and our allies. He is borderline delusional (mostly delusions of grandeur), in my opinion. Not just a dick who has chosen to be guided by the biggest dicks in the business of politics, but unhinged, reckless, erratic, and ultimately dangerous. He has terrible instincts -- see, e.g. Palin. Drama Queen, celebrate before victory, etc. -- and he is a reckless gambler, whose gambles (like this one) are thrilling in some very superficial way, but more often dangerous and exhausting to those he puts through the ringer, who have to live with the consequences of his bad bets.
This is not about at all about any failure to lead by Obama, no matter what McCain's campaign babbles on TV. No, this is "The John McCain Show" -- and if anybody votes for him, they'd better be prepared for a lot of this crap, because he clearly can't help himself when he wanders off the ranch like he has this past week. I just hope my brain doesn't explode before the next episode plays out.
In other news, I am going to clone a dinosaur and train him to nip you in the ear everytime you make repeated, off-topic comments.
Freeman, I like your style.
(NAIHD)
not an internet horndog, I swear.
Let’s call yesterday’s 777.68 point drop in the DJIA “The Pelosi Plunge” in honor of the gal who caused it. We can say that it happened on “Nancy Monday” (we can’t call it Black Monday because, you know, the messiah’s robots would get all pissy about it).
If the DJIA drops again Tuesday that will be “The Pelosi Plunge, Parte Deaux”.
Speaking of Nancy Pelosi, did you see her face? Yow! The botox has worn off, and her face dropped faster than the Dow. I predict new facial lows until the next Congressional break when she can fly back to Cal-E-Forn-I-Ah for more face poison treatments.
It's nice in the Althouse neighborhood this time of the morning. All the Obamatrons are sound asleep in their dorm rooms, the Red Bull having finally worn off.
Wearing their cute Garanimals jammies and dreaming of dinosaurs, I'd bet.
I'm awake because I'm rethinking my belief that the bailout, in whatever form Congress ultimately will pass, is a necessary evil.
Government intervention over many years (but especially the last year) is what brought us to the point where we’ve placed our hopes for economic recovery on the good intentions of a Congress facing re-election in a few weeks.
That alone is reason to encourage Congress do take no action, and let the market sort this mess. Politicians seeking their own re-election cannot be trusted to act in anyone's best interest but their own. Pathetic, but true.
The Asian and European markets are opening calmly. No big downswing. Maybe the non-bailout bailout is working.
Of course, the Obama troofers will claim Barry hath calmed the markets by merely directing his powerful gaze toward Asia and Europe.
McCain blames Obama.
Because that's what leaders do!
and revenant, your math needs some help. 12 dems switching sides is a 24 vote swing, aka, a 217-216 victory.
Sigh.
Yes, dumbass, that's the point I was making -- the bill would have passed if 12 of the Democrats who voted against it switched their votes, too.
People are harping over the Republican nay votes and ignoring the fact that *either* party could easily have supplied the additional votes needed.
Michael said...
This isn't about individual "beliefs," it's about competence and being representative of our country.
Maybe your own reading comprehension skills need a brush up, high-chair boy. Firstly, you present Palin's beliefs of dinosaur/human interactivity via pictures of footsteps as seen by Palin, but completely uncorroborated by you, at the core of your initial troll pissing. Now you make the audacious claim that this argument is now about competence, of which you have yet to prove that you have. The irony is, is that shouldn't someone who claims that someone they don't happen to like isn't competent should at the same time be competent to make such a claim?
Also, while you are at Mr. Pop n' Fresh, you might want to wonder why beliefs and competencies are mutually exclusive. Afterall, we have you as an example and it's easy to note that your beliefs are neither coherent or rational, much less characterizing that you competency is, well, coherent or rational. Buh-bye, let's play again sometime shall we? Oh, don't cry little baby. Baby want his rattle?
People are harping over the Republican nay votes
People think that a bipartisan solution should receive bipartisan support -- is that so hard to understand?
former law student said...
"People think that a bipartisan solution should receive bipartisan support -- is that so hard to understand?"
It got it. It failed because it got even more bipartisan opposition.
my favorite Weekly World News headline: SCIENTISTS DISCOVER WHAT HAPPENED TO DINOSAURS: BIG-GAME HUNTERS FROM MARS!
Welcome to Obama for America..
Jonathan Lambert
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