Cinque Henderson explains:I disliked Obama almost instantly. I never believed the central premises of his autobiography or his campaign. He is fueled by precisely the same brand of personal ambition as Bill Clinton.
And he's pretty irked by the
way white people like Obama:
So much of the educated white people's love for Barack depends on educated white people's complete ignorance of and distance from the rest of us. Barack is the black person they want the rest of us to be — half-white and loving, or "racially transcendent," as the press loves to call him.
Well, that rings true, but is it really so terrible? Why doesn't it bother the 90% of black who do support Obama? I'm sure they notice, and I'm guessing they think we're a little pathetic, but decent enough and reasonably tolerable.
পোস্টগুলি
৬৯টি মন্তব্য:
The 90% of blacks who support Obama are racists.
About ten to twelve percent of blacks vote Republican, too, don't they? There are a few major black Republican figures: Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Steele from Maryland, and a few others. Zora Neale Hurston was a Republican in her day, as was James Brown.
"What's with those 10% of black people who don't support Barack Obama?"
Why isn't that as odd sounding as:
What's with those 40% of white people who don't support Hillary Clinton?
I'm sure they notice, and I'm guessing they think we're a little pathetic, but decent enough and reasonably tolerable.
And then there's Mort.
One in four Clinton votes has come from a grandmother. Why are these elderly white women so sexist, racist, and ageist?
If you want to see a really pro-Clinton black man, read the columns of Earl Ofari Hutchinson.
"...a little pathetic, but decent enough and reasonably tolerable."
That's what Southerners of my parents' and grandparents' generations would have said about most black people 50 years ago. They might have also added: timid, beaten, and servile.
Ugh.
Niceness only gets you so far in the world, either at home or abroad. President Kennedy's mouthpiece Theodore "Ted" Sorensen got a long wet one from NPR's Diane Rehm yesterday. When asked about the Bay of Pigs, which he admitted was a "fiasco," he said that it proved that there are no military solutions for political problems and that somehow it prevented WWIII from happening. He went on to lavish praise on Sen. Obama, saying he would bring everyone all around the world together. I thought that he, like Sen. Obama, was a little pathetic, but decent enough and reasonably tolerable.
I just assumed that the 10 percent were self-hating racists.
You know, like Dave Chappelle's Black, Blind, Klan member.
I think Obama ought to be called to task for sliming black churches. I have been to three different black churches in my life with black friends including the Ebinzer Baptist Church in Atlanta (MLK's old church) and I never saw anything like what Reverend Wright preaches. No one seemed to care that I was white and everyone was nothing but kind. When Obama got up in Philadelphia and tried to claim that Wright was in any way typical of the black church experience it was a disgraceful smear. Cinque Henderson rightly calls him for that.
Why is it that every black politician must be transcendent? Isn't that just demanding that every black politician be guilty white people's wish fulfillment? I frankly don't care if a politician white or black is transcendent. I care what they believe and what they will do in office. Obama ought to be judged by his positions and actions. More importantly, his political opponents ought to free to attack those things without being accused of being racist. As long as Obama or his supporters drop the race card every time someone criticizes him, he will be anything but transcendent.
If anything the guilty white love of Obama is a symptom of our racial sickness not our racial transcendence. His claim to being a transcendent candidate is based on the assumption that there is any such thing. That one person by the din of their personality and will can erase four hundred years of history.
Not to go all Reverend Wright on people but there is something uniquely demeaning about that assumption. It assumes that it is up to black people to solve white people's racial issues. If only the noble Negro could come forward and bring everyone together someone white people would be awash in the blood of the lamb and free of guilt.
The day a black candidate steps forward and says "I am not here to solve the nations racial problems only to be President" and is not expected to be anything other than an ordinary politician, we will have finally made some progress in this country.
I always assumed most of those voters were gay. The gay community, in DC at least, appears by and large to be fiercely loyal to Hillary.
Kirby: James Brown was a Republican? *The* James Brown?
One in four Clinton votes has come from a grandmother. Why are these elderly white women so sexist, racist, and ageist?
Experience?
George: "a long wet one from Diane Rehm...." ewwww.
My local station doesnt carry her show. Has she ever gotten the issue with her voice taken care of?
"I always assumed most of those voters were gay. The gay community, in DC at least, appears by and large to be fiercely loyal to Hillary."
I guess Andrew Sullivan didn't get the memo, but I think he votes with his penis anyway. Once he realized Obama was cute, the deal was done.
What's cute about Obama? Tall stringbean with wings for ears.
"What's cute about Obama? Tall stringbean with wings for ears."
I agree but Andrew thinks he is dreamy. So does Megan McCardel, who despite being very attractive, has an admitted fetish for dorky men. Megan's love of Obama should tell you all you need to know about Obama's attractiveness or lack there of.
*The* James Brown?
Yes. As was Jackie Robinson.
They're making a movie about Jackie Robinson now. Bet they leave out that little tidbit.
You know, all these assumptions sure seem to float around, run deep and ... even drip down to the second-grade set. Yep, a son anecdote coming up ... .
Apparently, second-graders talk politics on playgrounds these days (see what happens when you ban dodgeball? But I digress). At least a couple times a week my son comes home with some new pronouncement. On Tuesday, as he was eating a snack, he suddenly blurted out, in an accusatory tone, "Hillary is going to send more troops. And she'll reduce local funding."
Me: What? (And that's Senator Clinton, to you.)
Son: Obama will fix things.
Me: That's Senator Obama to you. And I don't know what any of that means. Do you?
(blah blah blah, including an explanation that, really, there's not a lot of difference between the two candidates' positions blah blah blah also there are other candidates out there blah blah blah)
Son: Well, I'm for Obama. We're all for Obama.
Me: That's fine, but you know you don't just support candidates because of what your friends think.
(blah blah blah)
Son (impatiently): Hil-Senator Clinton is for old white women. Barack [weirdly, he pronounces this sort of the way Chris Matthews does] is for young cool people.
(Gentle reader, I herewith draw the curtain ... )
Holy sh*t!
I swear he doesn't get this stuff from us; I mean, we don't even talk that way. Where have I gone wrong?
Signed, Miss Othmar (formerly reader_iam)
Miss Othmar--that's Linus' teacher--is your son a classmate of Linus?
Small world, RIA
I swear he doesn't get this stuff from us; I mean, we don't even talk that way. Where have I gone wrong?
Number 1: I would ask him where he is hearing this stuff and if it is in his classroom. (Most likely coming from his teachers)
Number 2: If that IS the case, then I would go down to the school and raise such a shit storm that they will have to get industrial strength cleaner.
If you don't do those things, that is where you have gone wrong.
We had 2nd and 3rd grade teachers in our schools telling the children in the classroom, that Arnold Schwarzenegger was robbing money from the schools and they wouldn't be able to buy books etc. The kids were all worried about it and asking their parents. How DARE they bring their own political leanings into the public tax payer funded classroom much less an elementry school setting. How about teaching the kids to read and write and STFU about your political leanings?
I propose we have a National Slap a Teacher Day.
Kirby wrote:
About ten to twelve percent of blacks vote Republican, too, don't they?
List of African-American Republicans
Pearl Bailey!
Cheers,
Victoria
Remember I once told you I was Clerk of a polling station?
This reply is long. I apologise for it. But I really want you to hear this story about this topic.
On voting day, one of my staff had gone on her lunch break, so I took over the registers for a half-hour. I adored doing that, because you get to deal with the voters directly.
You engage them if they've had a hard day, sometimes they ask you questions back, like what's voter turn out like, etc.
The Polling Station was near Liberty City, which many people know from Grand Theft Auto, is an African-American neighbourhood. Rare was the white face (Hispanic included) I saw.
In Florida, because we have a closed primary, we have to give a different coloured slip of paper for each Party, green for Democrats and blue for Republicans. They then present that to the Inspector, who shows them what to do on the voting machine.
That's when I saw him. A young black male, about 25-30, holding a little boy by the hand. The little boy was holding a tiny American flag. My heart melted.
As fortune had it, the gentleman was in the A-D queue where I was.
Checked his name, checked his ID, asked him to repeat his address, all of which he did almost merrily. The little boy kept shooting me little grins. I loved these people.
I look down on the line where it says Party Affiliation...and he was a Republican.
He asked if it was okay to take his son to the machine, and I said, absolutely (you can, until you're 18, BTW. After that in Miami-Dade, you have to fill out a voter's assist form). He said,
"Thanks. I really want my son to share this with me."
Words fail me even now to explain the emotion I felt at this young African-American dad, who just happened to be Republican.
He probably has to fight with all his neighbours, his pastor, everyone, to justify his affiliation. Your mind begins to wander -- did Condi Rice have to go through that? Did her dad? God, it must be excrutiatingly difficult in the AA community.
All they want, all he wants is to teach his son to be a responsible citizen, which has nothing to do with Party, but everything to do with character.
How I'd love to have asked him why he chose his Party, but not only is that not allowed, but it's best that I'll never know.
I just treasure the anecdote, and ask you to forgive the length of this reply because of it.
Cheers,
Victoria
Maybe the 10% of African Americans who don't support Obama realize he is just the 2008 version of Joe Lieberman in blackface. Obama has succeeded in grafting the life experience of African Americans who are the descendants of former slaves onto his own, more privileged background and managed to convince the other 90% he is one of them.
Althouse asks "What's with those 10% of black people who don't support Barack Obama?"
Could they be the talented tenth?
Does anyone know how Obama does with wealthy and/or educated African-American voters? What's the break down of that demographic?
I can only recall the income and education of white voters being highlighted in all the election stories.
Does anyone know how Obama does with wealthy and/or educated African-American voters? What's the break down of that demographic?
Check out this African-American blog I have been reading. It's called Jack and Jill Politics. It describes itself as:
"Jack and Jill Politics is a blog that offers a Black Bourgeois perspective on American politics."
They lean Obama, and mostly Democrat, all the way.
I can only recall the income and education of white voters being highlighted in all the election stories.
Wow, great point.
Reminds me when "natural" was a lipstick or face powder colour.
A no-doubt unintended racist assumption by cosmetics companies that the normal face colour was beige. But racist nonetheless.
Cheers,
Victoria
Ive always hated exit polling. Just what a pluralist society needs.
It's a real miracle the thing stays together but ya we need this "science" unraveling the secret ballot.
Somehow I always know the 10 or 5 % and then they've got the media telling them-how they should be voting.
This is one of the most vile things that they do.
tarts.
List of African-American Republicans
Not terribly impressive when they all can be listed on a single sheet of paper....past and present.
Not terribly impressive when they all can be listed on a single sheet of paper....past and present.
Eh. They omitted lots.
Sammy Davis, Jr. for one. He had the unusual privilege of not only being black, Republican, but also Jewish.
That's a rare political trifecta indeed.
BTW, The Rock who is Tohesian (hey Ruth Anne!) is also Republican. As is Alex Rodriguez, and just about any "black" Cuban-American, like Celia Cruz was, etc. etc.
None of them got so much as a mention.
Cheers,
Victoria
I read Cinque Henderson's entire article. I was on the verge of believing that she was part of the "Talented 10%", until I read her description of Kurt Schmoke - "Never mind the dignified glories of Booker T. Washington, Frederick Douglass, Martin Luther King Jr., Colin Powell, Kurt Schmoke, and others."
When you remember that Kurt "Makes Us Proud" Schmoke brought a new meaning to the term "failed Black government" during his terms as Mayor of Baltimore, I wonder what could possibly be going on with her perception of reality. Perhaps the quote from Paul, 1 Corinthians 13, is apt; "For we know in part ... For now we see through a glass, darkly...". (If I used a Ferlinghetti quote, I'd be accused of being a racist.)
I re-read the above prior to sending. I'm being too harsh with Cinque. She absolutely nailed the "hoodwinked, bamboozled" Obama plagiarism - and she's right about Barack not resembling Jesus - but having a lot in common with "Slick Willie".
"Barack is the black person they want the rest of us to be." Not just no but HELL NO!
Colin Powell is the black person I want the rest of black people to be, or John H. Johnson, Condi Rice, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Bill Cosby, Berry Gordy, Ken Chenault, Stan O'Neal or thousands and thousands of other accomplished people who don't think the world owes 'em a living and who don't complain about how hard and cruel America is for people making a half million a year. This country has so many successful black people, that to hold up Barack Obama as THE model for black success is purely insulting.
George,
Well, Sorensen is almost a decade older than McCain, and we all know what that says about his abilities, right?
Reader,
A worrisome exchange, but please don't think it is something new. I swear I'm not making this up: in the somewhat disorganized minutes after Kennedy's assassination was announced at my grade school, the class troublemaker was heard to state in a tone of complete confidence: "Yeah, Nixon shot him!"
madawaskan,
Don't you consider it your patriotic duty to lie to exit pollsters? (And phone pollsters, too?) I know I do!
Black conservatives make up about 25% of the black electorate. Blacks are hardly monolithic. Many of their conservatives are staunchly against gay marriage, for instance (it's hard to find a gay bar in Harlem, even as it is). There are many other ways in which black conservatives are not very different from white conservatives. James Brown (the James Brown) stumped for Nixon. One of the best writers of the Harlem Renaissance (George Schuyler) wrote an extremely funny science fiction novel called Black No More -- about a machine that could change blacks to whites. Black politicians whined that they were losing their base.
Later he wrote a book called Black and Conservative.
Here's a brief piece from a Wikipedia article called, Black Conservatives.
"According to a 2004 study 13.7% of blacks identified as "Conservative" or "Extremely Conservative" [2] with another 14.4 identifying as slightly conservative. However the same study indicated less than ten percent identified as Republican or Republican leaning in any fashion. Likewise, a recent Pew Research Center survey showed that 19% of blacks identify as Religious Right [3]. In 2004 the Pew Research Center indicated only 7% of blacks identify as Republican.[4] Hence a certain percentage of noted Black conservatives (such as Harold Ford Jr.) are likely connected to the Democrats for Life of America movement or economic liberalism."
This country has so many successful black people, that to hold up Barack Obama as THE model for black success is purely insulting.
Richard, don't hate me, but I think I will disagree with you there.
IF he wins the Presidency, he should be THE model for black success.
That he's come this close, is a tremendous measure of success, at least in my eyes.
I know what you're saying though.
Cheers,
Victoria
Back when Obama started running for President, I commented to a friend (a liberal yuppie) that Obama wasnot really the "black" candidate but the "liberal yuppie" candidate.
R. Fagin @ 2:14: "Colin Powell is the black person I want the rest of black people to be." Are you sure? Remember that Powell knew it is was his deputy, Richard Armitage, who outed Valerie Plame to the press, yet he said nothing. Powell callously allowed Scooter Libby to fall victim to the investigation of the Special Persecutor (!). Add to that Powell's questionable military advice to George H. W. Bush before and during Operation Desert Storm and you just have to wonder. Recall that Powell thought we could negotiate with Saddam Hussein. Nearly two decades later, Barack Obama is now channeling Colin Powell by claiming we can negotiate with the madmen in Tehran and Damascus.
When 90% of any large racial group support the very same candidate, you have to start asking if its racism that is the motivation for the support. Folks don't like to frame it that way, but that's what it is. I think racism is in the human genome. We will never get rid of it no matter how pure we think we've become.
I know what you're saying, Richard, but it's more like 80% of the race. Because about 10-15% of blacks vote Republican, and another ten percent are going for Hillary.
So it's 20-25%. And a lot of the issue is economic. Many blacks are on the bottom, and can't seem to get out. Some like Cosby have pointed out the endemic violence, and the lack of stable families, but they get tuned out.
Sharpton and others harp on the economic issues (as if they exist in some kind of vaccuum).
James Brown thought that with hard work and savings, blacks could get off the bottom.
Eldridge Cleaver did, too, and was a Republican at the end of his life. But he also robbed banks, and was drugged up, simultaneously.
It's kind of funny to look at the list of Black Conservatives, and see Eldridge Cleaver on the list.
Perhaps his parents should have called him Eldritch instead of Eldridge.
Back when Obama started running for President, I commented to a friend
You went to kindergarten with Barack!?!
James Brown was a Republican? *The* James Brown?
That's because conservatives feel good -- like he knew that they would, now.
That's because conservatives feel good -- like he knew that they would, now.
Ha. I literally LOLed.
All the way back to 1988, 10% of the black vote has gone to Republican presidential candidates. African-Americans may be able to identify individual issues on which they are conservative, and may call themselves conservative, but their votes suggest that they don't mean the same thing by the term that I do.
A sense of group solidarity is often identified as a strong value leading to AA's voting as a bloc, but I suspect the Socialism Lite is a more important factor.
As one of the 10%, I'm not an airy-fairy, pie in the sky person. I want to hear policy positions so that I can sift them to determine their feasibility. Hope and Change are meaningless substitutes for genuine policy positions to address difficult issues. I read history, and I know that Hitler offered hope and change; Germany is changed by his change to this day.
Moreover, I'm not interested in ram-goat, rum, and roti politics (that's Caribbean for race politics). Race is not enough to convince me to vote for someone. As long as the ideas, ideology, and policy offerings are acceptable, the candidate could be any race he wants. Suppose I vote for Obama on the basis of race; how does that address our terrorism problem? Am I to believe that because Obama is from a Muslim Kenyan father that that gives him some sort of extra power in addressing terrorism issues? I don't think so. Muslims are killing Muslims daily. What else is Obama offering besides talk?
I want a candidate who knows American history, who understands the Constitution, who understands the importance of American symbols, and who respects those symbols, who can speak with pride of American exceptionalism. Obama is not that man. Nobody spends 20 years listening to anti-American rhetoric, confesses to being fortified by the anti-American rhetoric masquerading as "sermons" and emerges as a great believer in this shining city on a hill. It is impossible to believe, just from listening to Michelle Obama, that Barack Obama is untouched by 20 years of Jeremiah Wright and Louis Farrakhan. There's an old saying, 'birds of a feather flock together.' If Wright is an anti-American, anti-Semitic racist, then so is Barack Obama.
Furthermore, I know a communist when I hear one. Barack Obama lacks the basic understanding of capitalism and how it informs a market economy; of taxation and how changes to it can either uplift or degrade the lives of the people functioning within an economic system; of the role of government as the Founding Fathers envisioned it—not cradle to grave.
Finally, I'm a Christian, and I KNOW that no man comes to Christ on his own terms. We come to Christ on Christ's terms, which is naked, poor, weak, filthy, sinful, and in need of salvation. No man who sets the terms for his "acceptance" of Christ is a Christian. After all, the vessel cannot tell the potter how it wants to be made. That's what Obama did before he decided to "walk the aisle." Cheap grace, faux conversion.
My thinking has been influenced by the Bible, the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, Bastiat, and Hayek. There is no way on this God's green earth I shall ever vote for Barack Obama.
Victoria,
"IF he wins the Presidency, he should be THE model for black success. "
So you think a black person who was raised by white people should be THE model for black success? Interesting ...
Yeah, what Helen said. Even though I'm white and agnostic. That woman makes sense.
I've been keeping tabs on black conservatives since the Clarence Thomas hearings. These are the black people who didn't like the "high tech lynching", and got sour on Clinton-supporters' patronising comments on "the first black president". Some supported the Contract With America. They were in greatest force supporting Pete Wilson in California.
Around the time of Monica, the black conservatives melted away. Barring a few who actually dared run for office (failing at it) there's been nary a peep.
However just lately, I've been seeing quite a few "black republicans" - Republican diehards who somehow never quite roused themselves to support a Republican policy in public - turning to Obama. I noticed this first among comedians (who, since they play to mostly-black audiences, like the archetypal "barbershop loudmouth", make a routine of Speaking What's On Their Mind - and proclaiming Republicanism in front of a crowd is admittedly a great way to attract attention). Sheryl Underwood claims to be Republican; but when I went to her show, she turned it into a full-on whooping Hope!Change! rally.
Another "black Republican" is Yvonne R. Davis, who posted a race-power exhortation on Obama's behalf in Houston Chronicle, May 10, 2008.
I'm thinking we're going to see a lot more Black Republicans For Obama in the next few months. Who knew that there were so many? Come on, white Republicans! PROVE you're not racist! :^)
Helen, I may not be ready to gay-marry you (see other thread), but my God do I love you for saying what you did. What a magnificent reply that was.
Shame I've never seen you on Althouse before.
(Please God, do let her stay a while)
Cheers,
Victoria
So you think a black person who was raised by white people should be THE model for black success? Interesting ...
He sees himself as a black man, and I daresay other people around the world do too.
He would've overcome hurdles as a black man, because few people ask you what colour the folks who brought you up were, when you're being considered for a job.
Giving credit where credit is due, is all, Ex. Hope you understand.
Cheers,
Victoria
When a country is ethnically divided, democracy changes its meaning. In a place like Denmark people vote for issues, and maybe personalities. In a place like Iraq democracy is about showing force. It's to show how many and how motivated are your people.
If the Spartans had instituted universal male suffrage to the lands under their control, the Hang Every Spartiate Party would have got 70% of the vote. I expect the Rhodesians argued the same thing back in the 1970s.
One answer to this is federalism: carve majority-black states out of the major river watersheds of the South, let them vote on the issues of their choice, and accept their representatives in Congress under a nation which devolves its powers to the states. Certainly if this had been the aim of Reconstruction, there would have been no Jim Crow laws.
Another answer is just to do away with democracy entirely, as has Dubai. That would be the proposal of Mencius Moldbug which he somewhat archly describes as Jacobitism.
"Well, that rings true, but is it really so terrible? Why doesn't it bother the 90% of black who do support Obama? I'm sure they notice, and I'm guessing they think we're a little pathetic, but decent enough and reasonably tolerable."
I'm guessing that a lot of the other 90% think that's just what it takes to get white votes, because they think we're not all that decent and not all that tolerant of blacks who don't suck up to us. I'd also substitute clueless for pathetic.
Finally, I'm a Christian
I have a hard time believing this. How would Christ recognize you as one of His own?
former law student, that is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. You owe us an apology.
zimri: to refresh your recollection, the topic of the thread is What's with those 10% of black people who don't support Barack Obama?
Helen identified as one of the 10%. Then she defined herself as a Christian and Obama as a non- or fake Christian. (She also called Obama anti-Semitic, anti-American, racist, and communist.) Therefore her eligibility to make that determination is fair game for discussion.
former law student, thank you for explaining why your "challenge" was relevant to this thread. In future comments you make, you'll want to make that more clear from the get-go.
Obama's church tells lies. I am not talking about the shared beliefs of Christianity, which are held to be true or false depending on a personal belief; I am talking about actual lies like "the US created HIV". By telling lies this church cannot claim to be Christian. By entering communion with that church, Obama cannot call himself Christian.
Anybody who supports Obama is not doing it for Christian reasons. This is not to say that 90% of black people are not Christian; they've just decided to vote for the pagan Caesar over the Christian alternatives, a Julian or Diocletian over a Jovian or Constantine. Which is their choice, and I'd normally rather prefer an agnostic and nationalist candidate over one who wears his (or her) piety quite literally on their sleeve.
But Obama should quit using Christian imagery in his appearances, before he taints the whole Church which his and Wright's worldly ambitions.
I have a hard time believing this. How would Christ recognize you as one of His own?
That was awful.
Cheers,
Victoria
Helen, I hope you don't mind, but I've made a blogpost quoting your reply about why you are not voting for Obama.
Rarely do we hear such a voice as yours, here or anywhere, that it touched something very deep inside me.
A Dissenting Voice
Cheers,
Victoria
Victoria, you have a point, but Obama's clear predecessor role model, Mass. Gov. Deval Patrick, has turned out to be an ineffective executive. Obama shares a lot of Patrick's political views, shares his lack of executive experience, and even if elected is likely to fail as president for the same reasons many have judged Gov. Patrick a failure: being a community "activist" and a half-term Seantor is not proof of "battle hardness." Running a Fotrune 500 company (O'Neal, Chennault), running the entire U.S. military (Powell), or founding a nationally successful business (Johnson, Gordy) is.
We generally do not consider Jimmy Carter a role model for success notwithstanding his term as President, and with good reason. President Obama, sharing the same bad political instincts and naivete as 'ol Jimmy, will end up being viewed the same way.
If we really wanted a black candidate for President who was likely to succeed in office, we could've done a whole lot better.
That, and I'd rather have Berry Gordy's money than be President any day you want to talk about it. This is one white boy that knows how to pick black role models.
A very large portion of the black populace (maybe 90%) want to live as modern savages. That is why they elect leaders who condone savagery. Obama is basically the same as Ray Nagin or Marion Berry or Kwame Fitzpatrick . They all appeal to savages, and to highly educated people who for some reason admire savages. They seem genuinely decent when you hear them speak but they too realize that their own people are mostly savages. It's 90 % the same whenever and wherever blacks govern. It's a real mess, but I think everyone quietly suspects that it's true.
That was awful.
Yes, Christians must try to live according to Christ's teachings even though they may fail. Those who pretend to be a Christian while rejecting His teachings are abominable.
I did not recognize the teachings of Jesus in anything she wrote. I did recognize the teachings of Hayek, but Christ did not preach the virtues of laissez-faire capitalism. Instead he spoke about how to treat the least of his brethren, and the difficulty of the rich man entering the kingdom of Heaven.
Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be perfect, 16 go, sell what you have and give to (the) poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22
When the young man heard this statement, he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
and
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, 20 take up his cross, and follow me.
25
For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 21
26
What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life?
27
22 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.
He who has ears, let him hear.
"that's Caribbean for race politics"
'Nuff said. I have generally found that blacks of Caribbean descent have a stronger sense of independence and self-reliance.
"That one person by the din of their personality and will can erase four hundred years of history ... assumes that it is up to black people to solve white people's racial issues."
This, then, is where we agree in fact but differ in perspective. Yes, there is no "magic Negro" who will mystically erase all white racism, but the framing of your statement seems to cary the implication that it is only the "white people's racial issues" that pose a problem.
I contend that in the post-Civil Rights era the vast majority of white people have overcome their racial issues to the extent that it is not a determining factor in how they live their lives and how they deal with others. But given the large number of blacks who think the idea of AIDS as government-induces racial genocide is plausible, the proliferation of race-baiting victimologists and the endless choice of tales of oppression and invocation of historical greviences as cause can it be said that black people's racial issues are not a more pressing challenge faced today?
William "Cold Cash" Jefferson is a regular politician.
He has his eye on the prize.
I think Obama (D, Rezko) is not too different.
I did not recognize the teachings of Jesus in anything she wrote. I did recognize the teachings of Hayek, but Christ did not preach the virtues of laissez-faire capitalism. Instead he spoke about how to treat the least of his brethren, and the difficulty of the rich man entering the kingdom of Heaven.
Thank the maker I'm Jewish. We can be as rich as we want to be. Because, you know, it is hard for the poor to help the poor.
I'm thinking we're going to see a lot more Black Republicans For Obama in the next few months. Who knew that there were so many? Come on, white Republicans! PROVE you're not racist! :^)
Talk about lobbing softballs that is easy.
I'm NOTvoting for Obama.
James Brown was not one to ask for a handout and was suspicious of the Democrats. To the point, I will let the Godfather speak for himself:
"I don't want nobody
To give me nothing
Open up the door
I'll get it myself
Don't give me denegration
Give me true communication
Don't give me sorrow
I want equal opportunity
To live tomorrow
Give me schools
And give me better books
So I can read about myself
And gain my truly looks"
As you may recall, Al Sharpton was his road manager. Sadly, Al lost the message of equal opportunity, and is all about the handout now.
I must have missed the part of the NT where Jesus said that government bureaucracy was a substitute for individual action and charity. Or the part where Jesus says you should encourage layabouts. Perhaps my Bible is missing pages...
All very nicely put, Helen.
M. Simon, hilarious line thanking God you're Jewish. I'm still laughing over it.
formerlawstudent, you did not address the point I made re Obama and Christianity. I reiterate for your edification: "I KNOW that no man comes to Christ on his own terms. We come to Christ on Christ's terms, which is naked, poor, weak, filthy, sinful, and in need of salvation. No man who sets the terms for his "acceptance" of Christ is a Christian. After all, the vessel cannot tell the potter how it wants to be made. That's what Obama did before he decided to "walk the aisle." Cheap grace, faux conversion."
Obama himself said he set the terms under which he would be 'converted'; he laid out what had to be. Is Obama equal with God? I know that God allowed the patriarch Abraham to plead with Him before Sodom, but if you read what Obama said about what he required must be before he could become Christian, you will find none of Abraham's humility. Instead, you will find the arrogance of the ignorant and the unconverted.
Having been baptized, Obama spent 20 years listening to "sermons" that would be appropriate to a mosque. Where is the edifying of the faithful with teachings about Christ's redemptive sacrifice, with sanctification, justification, with the Lord's Supper, and other delights to be found at the Christian table? What he heard instead was "AmeriKKKa" and "*** da** America." No doubt, formerlawstudent, you may desire to parse words and require proof that Obama was there to hear them. TUCC's magazine Trumpet tells you of the muck that its parishioners ate instead of wholesome food to edify the soul.
The implied criticism of your response is that Christians are not supposed to possess reason in addition to faith. I'm very sorry, but using reason is part of the discernment package. Happily for me, Christianity is not what you think it is.
As for me, as is the case with every Christian baptized into Christ on His terms, He has set His seal upon me. He knows I am His. The blood none of us sees covers me, so God has no trouble seeing not me, but Christ.
Blacks I talk to say they vote Republican because of moral values. Somehow the Republicans get credit for having high moral values without actually accomplishing any legislation to support their claims. Meanwhile Larry Craig is rubbing ankles in an airport bathrooms to solicit sex with another man, the Republican Govenor in California refuses to even try to challenge the Court ruling to accept same sex marriages in California. Abortion is still legal after over 20 years of Republicans in power, Bush never even attempted to push for the Marriage Amendment he used in his campaign to win votes in 2004, the current nominee is on his 2nd wife and rumored to have a little something on the side... Just to name a few things. The fact that you keep voting for them anyway makes them less accountable and less moral every year!
To Helen.
The Christian stuff is a little lopsided....I think you can make a convincing argument that Obama isn't the Christian that you might like, but Bush? Dick Cheney? McCain? These are your ideal Christian candidates? If social conservatives want to pick the candidate whose platform is most agreeable to them, great. That's exactly what centrists and liberals are doing when they pick Barak. But if you really think that the Republican candidates are "better Christians," I'm not sure you know your party. Most republicans in power are fiscal conservatives, not social ones. That's why its always a headache for them to figure out how to create a platform that won't alienate you...cause they don't really care, not in the same way you do. If they cared, it wouldn't be so hard, they'd just put down their good old Christian beliefs in the platform go on. I'm not saying that any of the Republican members aren't good Christians, cause, you know, I don't know them, and I don't think its germane. But if lying on public record makes someone a bad Christian, I think its safe to say most politicians fall short...I believe McCain is the man who cheated on and abandoned his wife after a debilitating car accident. I'm not judging, I'm just saying, the man is also not exactly an Apostle. I wish we'd just agree that we have political disagreements about the direction of the country and even about the character of the candidates, and just fight it out at that level. When I hear this stuff about whose the best Christian...I mean really.
"Barack is the black person they (educated whites) want the rest of us to be — half-white and loving, or "racially transcendent."
Supposely, I'm a black voting indepedent liberal. I'm for Barack, but I voted for my states republican governor "Bobby Jindal". I only observe the fiscal policy and economic progress of the candidates overall plan. America isn't moral but moralistic. Politician's concerned with issues such as abortion, stem cell research, and gay/lesbian marriage instead of the viable and best solutions for governing mutes issues like space policy, global human rights, trade, and education which offers real potential for an improved quality of life. The truth is moralistic and racists views are no more than a classis attempt by many americans to excuse their little pathetic, but decent enough and reasonably tolerable lives. Even if he was by some real measure "racially transcendent" to most american's than he would be unexceptible by most americans' standards. The guy is the better candidiate with a more fiscally comprehensively sound and economically progressive plan.
maybe if teachers were paid even a fraction of what they deserve, they would value their jobs a little more and keep their shit to themselves, political or otherwise...which most good teachers already do, but as in any profession, there are idiotic people; usually with big mouths...and when you're in a profession where you are being taken full advantage of because you are passionate about what you do, ie, education, you might start to just make up your own mind about certain things and advocate to the group you have at hand. but i digress...this isn't about education per se.
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