Ann Althouse is exactly the sort of shallow, petty, mean person who would try to imply that being hot/having breasts means that the be-breasted hot person should be treated like a sex toy and not be taken seriously as a career-minded individual. If there are plenty of mean-spirited assholes out there like Ann—and there are—then yes, having people gossip about you on the internet might mark you as a sexualized female and hurt your career chances, particularly in a field like the law.And she continues with the wacky, lying assault here:
[W]here I grew up, people tended to be a bit more blatant [about sexism]. Classic example, since we’ve been talking about the Ann Althouse mentality where women are basically expected to exist for men and certainly not to compete with them academically—when I was in high school, I got in trouble for dress code violations a lot.Okaaaay.... That's just weird, Amanda. Enjoy your fevered life of the mind, you goofball. Don't go and "gossip about [anyone] on the internet." That would be so wrong.
ADDED: What you are witnessing here is, I think, the full-out punitive mode that victimologists lapse into if you fail to buy into victimology. To be fair, it makes some sense. It's sort of like: Don't believe in victims? I'll show you how it feels to be a victim! So, I can't very well cry "poor me," can I? It would be conceding the (crazy) argument. I'm just going to laugh.
पोस्ट्स
१४८ टिप्पण्या:
People like Marcotte amaze me. How can anyone go through life so totally consumed by hatred?
I knew a programmer at my old job who suffered a bit of a mental breakdown. Relationship trouble, overwork, etc. One day, while sitting in his cube, he just started yelling, "Assholes! Assholes! Assholes! ASSHOLES!"
I have a feeling that Marcotte, even if she doesn't do so out loud, spends every moment of every day screaming "ASSHOLES!"
That darn Amanda. What a sweet girl.
Would Prozac help, do ya think? She seems so unhappy. Extremely so, in fact. About everything.
But does she have a great pair of knockers?
Marcotte is dangerous. She is a talented and prolific writer and uses her talent to spread vitriol and hate. She is bad for the internet and for the world.
I thought Althouse's response to her was brilliant. I think Althouse is outmatched by Marcotte with the vitriolic pen. Nevertheless she is stepping up to battle Marcotte head on with raw courage.
What a grand performance!
Hopefully, Marcotte will crawl back into her hole.
You're morphing into Rush Limbaugh as we speak. Can't deal with the substance of the post, so call the woman hysterical and hope that your audience's misogyny will prevent them from seeing how silly that is. Luckily, your audience is stupid enough to swallow that one whole.
Will you differentiate for us the Sadly, No! case and the AutoAdmit case?
Are you being serious when you tell Sadly, No! to stop allowing people to impersonate you?
Amanda, its hard to respond substantively when comments like this are made:
since we’ve been talking about the Ann Althouse mentality where women are basically expected to exist for men and certainly not to compete with them academically...
That is just a smear. It has no basis in fact and therefore requires no response.
Where is our resident Elizabeth who is better than I at pointing out these obvious slights....
Oh Annie, you must add the lameness tag. When you shift into would-be Sociologist mode that is the only word to describe the sentences that follow.
Victimology, my ass. It's Althouse Lameness simple and true.
Dead on, Ann. I understand that anger and wrath can be motivating factors, but do you suppose she has to *try* to hate that much?
Between the Edwards fiasco and this ongoing screeching/whining-fest, it's tough to fathom how she has *any* fans or regular readers left.
Why do I feel I'm back in high school, with all the girl cliques, backstabbing and nastiness of my (thankfully) long ago teenage years?
I believe Ann's original claim was that no rational employer would reject a female candidate purely on the basis of anonymous comments about her appearance on the internet.
One can legitimately argue about whether this claim is true. Perhaps it is overly complacent.
Somehow, Marcotte somehow mutated this into the idea that Ann thinks employers should discriminate against attractive women. This is a remarkable bizarre leap of logic.
Is be-breasted a word? Hmm...
I've always thought of Ann as a serious career-minded individual as well as be-breasted. I don't know if Amanda is be-breasted, but, clearly, she has beclowned herself.
Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest libs on average are very very unhappy individuals.
Today we hear news the hugest lib Rosie is depressed. Marcotte is clearly very very unhappy.
why is that? While conservative mouthpieces seem fairly happy.
Is it caused by BDS?
What a mindblower.
Every time Amanda Marcotte speaks out or up or sideways, it reminds people of Sen. Edwards' questionable judgment.
Nice. A law professor with experience at a big NYC firm is obviously someone who lacks intellect and was subservient to men academically!
This same person, who feels that SPORTS METAPHORS are sexist is really just a misogynist. Amanda, you need to take a few valiums.
Marcotte's only talent is to come up with some of the most inventive blasphemous phrases in the past 5 years. Could you tell us again how the LAX players really raped that girl again, cause that was fun.
As to dress code violations: your attitude demonstrates that you are the type who would have been violating the dressa code and just generally making an ass out of yourself. Given where you got your degree, you shouldn't be throwing around any intellectual pretentions except as compared to pre-schoolers.
Amen, Giles. Talk about projection; that whole comments thread is full of folks who read what they wanted to read in order to rip on the professor here. They didn't actually take the time to parse the post and see what was really being said.
Speaking of the comments thread: Can we say "echo chamber"? I mean damn... those were some of the lamest, dumbest analyses I've ever seen, and I've read the LGF, FDL, Kos, and Atrios sites before. Someone needs to tell those children how to properly deconstruct.
You can laugh at the bizarreness of it, I suppose. But the comment thread over there is just plain weird. I will attribute it to the average age there vs. here, I guess. Eventually, Ms. Marcotte and her readers will grow up, if their heads don't explode first.
I wonder if John Edwards is reading the thread.
Mandy claims that Ann's mentality is that it is a world for men only, and women shouldn't compete academically. Then why the hell is Ann Althouse a law professor and not sitting at home in a June Cleaver dress and high heels, cutting fresh flowers and cooking a pot roast?
I think Marcotte was the model for the bitter feminists in the movie "PCU", who chanted "Hey Hey, Ho Ho, this penis party's got to go"
Amanda: You're morphing into Rush Limbaugh as we speak. Can't deal with the substance of the post, so call the woman hysterical and hope that your audience's misogyny will prevent them from seeing how silly that is.
Too funny. You just did what you accuse Althouse of doing, and in the very same sentence - calling us misogynists because you can't deal with the substance of Ann's post.
will prevent them from seeing how silly that is. Luckily, your audience is stupid enough to swallow that one whole.
Obviously, the audience here is not as stupid as the one you're accustomed to.
Ann said... no reasonable employer would make decisions based on anonymous comments, etc
Henry said... Does anyone have any evidence that any law firm anywhere is googling job candidates to check out chat board gossip?
I think it is known and common practice these days for firms to google names of potential new hires, just as it is for firms to do background and credit checks.
I have heard, but can't prove that firms that send new hire college grads back to their schools the next year to recruit often ask the current employees to check facebook and myspace looking for potential problems in this year's recruits. That is rational behavior.
Oh, and I'm sure that the Defense Security Service and the OMB security staff use all of the above when your average 22 year old is trying to get a security clearance.
Past behavior has consequences. as somebody said on another post, one used to be able to get a clean slate, etc etc. However the internet is global and all marks left there are permanent.
YMMV
I believe Ann's original claim was that no rational employer would reject a female candidate purely on the basis of anonymous comments about her appearance on the internet....Somehow, Marcotte somehow mutated this into the idea that Ann thinks employers should discriminate against attractive women. This is a remarkable bizarre leap of logic.
That's Marcotte's MO. Distortion to justify her vitrol. Its not that she's incapable of comprehendng what she reads, its that she refuses to.
First a man coming up with that level of crap would be ignored, so Amanda, feel the privilege, your B(?) breasts give you.
And one other thing, no twenty something twit from Austin can ever call me stupid. Go out in the real world for another 25 years and let's talk. Get a real job, worry about health insurance for yourself and some dependents, etc etc.
Inside the echo chamber, you don't have a clue about much and certainly not Ann, just because you are quick on the keyboard, doesn't mean you have any talent, much less worth.
I've come to the conclusion that the important political distinction is not left or right, but stupid and not stupid, with stupid having a particular meaning: feeling absolutely certain of X, even though you have no meaningful evidence to support X nor valid logic to arrive at X.
Sadly, we can find examples of this on both sides of the left-right divide with some evidence that the further away from the center someone is, the less likely they are to be bothered with trivial problems like evidence or logic.
Hmm, a feminist illustrates a post about Ann with a photo of a cat, captioned "Ann strikes again". Then calls Ann sexist.
Sophomoric.
Marcotte is one of those leftists who think sexism, racism, etc are one way streets that flow from white men only. She's a woman, see, so she just CAN'T be sexist! Ann has fallen from her state of grace by her 'right-wingedness', so she can be sexist, in fact is sexiist by default, because all 'conservatives' are naturally sexist (and racist and homophobic... and MEAN!).
A woman who writes about "Hot white sticky Holy Spirit" and makes it a point to announce on her blog that she fornicates to have fun, now complains of sexual "objectification"?
I have heard, but can't prove that firms that send new hire college grads back to their schools the next year to recruit often ask the current employees to check facebook and myspace looking for potential problems in this year's recruits. That is rational behavior.
Since they are asking the recruit to violate the facebook and myspace TOS, I say their actions are unethical.
Since they are seeking information that violates the various Federal non-discrimination acts, my guess is that by seeking this information they are making themselves liable for discrimination lawsuits.
Since these are lawyers doing this, I would hope they would be disbarred.
Drill Sgt: I have heard, but can't prove that firms that send new hire college grads back to their schools the next year to recruit often ask the current employees to check facebook and myspace looking for potential problems in this year's recruits. That is rational behavior.
I bet John Edwards wishes he had done that. At the very least, it weeds out the bigots.
It puzzles me why you didn't make it in the big time.
What are you talking about? Pandagon is much bigger than Althouse, as well it should be.
This is what I love about this blog. It's like an acid trip tour through a deranged Ripley's Republican Theme Park where no Republican are ever wrong or remotely guilty of anything, under any circumstances, no matter what. And in the Roomful of Mirrors Scooter Libby appears as Joe Wilson behind bars. Or his wife. Or Tim Russert. Or his neighbor. Or Sandy Berger. Or Arianna Huffington.
Always loved a good theme park though!
I know, NL. It's a carnival of horrors in here. Maybe that's why I can't look away.
It's bigger than a presidential campaign blog, yes.
You people just can't let that go, can you?
Actually, she is switching Drama roles. When victims are ignored or opposed they move into persecutor mode.
Google The Drama Triangle, important information regarding drama and such silliness.
Trey
So, Naked Lunch and Doyle, having read your comments, the readers here are forced to conclude that you agree 100% with, and endorse without hesitation, the comments of Ms. Marcotte and those that are writing comments on her blog.
Very interesting. Very interesting indeed.
Pandagon is much bigger than Althouse, as well it should be.
I'm not sure how you can compare them -- aren't there 4 or so full-time writers contributing to it? It'll be interesting to see what happens when it doesn't have an administration to rail against.
Nobody who writes anything about Ann (favorable and especially unfavorable) runs any risk of being ignored. The Google Alert sees all!
Doyle and NL. You are doing permanent damage to yourselves. Please look away.
I don't think Marcotte is stupid.
If Marcotte were interested in the truth, then her distortion of facts would indeed be stupid.
However, Marcotte's social status is actually based on her ability to lead a movement, a group of idealistic people who believe themselves to be 'progressive'. In this context, it is absolutely in her interest to mischaracterize anyone who challenges her rhetoric, to whip up outrage, and to portray dissenters as 'part of the problem'.
Pandagon is not a discussion-place, it is a rally.
I was going to say the same thing, TMink! I believe that is exactly how Marcotte and her supporters act out their lives. And their fantasies, judging by their comments.
Okay, we now know how "the internet ronin" dresses up for Halloween and role playing nights.
Very Interesting
Hey stever you're the one who was spraying all over your monitor, calling Amanda worthless, referring to her breasts, etc. I can handle my loathing better than you can.
Based on what I've seen of some of her more imaginative prose, Marcotte could have a tremendously profitable future ahead of her - writing pornography. Not a choice of careers I'd want to be considered adept at, but to each her own.
Very funny, RC. Forgot all about Laugh-in! (Who was that actor anyway?)
I can handle my loathing better than you can.
The fact that you loathe people who disagree with you on points of politics is a sad testament on your personality.
Well John we just have to play the cards we're dealt.
"Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
--A. Lincoln
Marcotte and Doyle, and Kos, etc. are very unhappy people.
Lincoln suffered from depression.
What bos0x said.
RC, I did a simple google on:
Googling job applicants
and came up with numerous good articles on how it was a not uncommon practice, that it wasn't illegal explicitly, but one needed to avoid some EEOC issues.
quite enlightening. take a look.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/265153_facebook03.html
"...articulate reasoning on Pandagon..."
Oh STOP! your killing me!
Bosox: The only person I've seen here use the term "hateful" is you. Do you specialize in reading between the lines?
Doyle; No loathing here, just amusement. If I wanted to be a hateful jerk, I'd have to have enough courage to do that to someone's face. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to do it. Like maybe trolling blogs of people I don't like just to snipe at them. I just don't see how that enriches you "life."
Yeah Abe had no reason to be depressed. Clinical depression is not a choice anyway.
Ann Althouse is exactly the sort of shallow, petty, mean person who would try to imply that being hot/having breasts means that the be-breasted hot person should be treated like a sex toy and not be taken seriously as a career-minded individual.
It isn't just insulting, bosox. It's a lie. Ann said nothing of the sort. Insulting someone for something they actually said is a different matter.
Hallucinating positions that people take, then attacking those rather than the ACTUAL positions that people take is either dishonest or nuts. Take your pick.
...articulate reasoning on Pandagon...
Did you follow the link that Ann provided? For starters, Marcotte distorts Ann's point [no rational employer would reject a female candidate purely on the basis of anonymous comments about her appearance on the internet] and substitutes her own strawman [Ann thinks employers should discriminate against attractive women] for her fellow bigots ar Pandagon to flail away on.
Marcotte also allows degrading impersonations of Ann to remain in the comments section, while complaining about the degrading comments at AutoAdmit.
Articulate reasoning? Go check out the Pandagon thread. Be sure to wash up before coming back here.
I hate to be a spoilsport and criticize Ms. Marcotte’s writing but there is no such word as “sexualize.” Thus, it is improper to describe someone as a sexualized female.
It is proper to say “sexicate.” Let us use it in a sentence: Harrumph! No, we shall not hire this female applicant for our white shoe firm as she has been sexicated.
But seriously, we ought not make light of the suffering of the amply bejugged.
I know full well the curse of the “hot person.” I look exactly like Daniel Craig except my genitals are truly enormous.
As a result, I have never been hired by a prestigious, big-city law firm. That hurts my feelings a lot and my only consolation has been the kindness shown by the many female partners who have taken the time to follow up a rejection letter with a personal invitation to treat me to lunch at a fancy hotel.
Ajd: That would be more forceful, vaguely, if you didn't lapse into patronising nicknames like "Annie".
It'd be fair if Prof. Althouse had called Amanda "Mandy", of course.
But she didn't, did she?
TDS, am I looking at the right link? I don't see any discussion of legality or EEOC issues.
The use of facebook to investigate potential employees, may be legal, but is definitely a violation of their
terms of service.
If you seek information in facebook relating to race, marital status, age, etc., you are almost certainly violating federal hiring laws.
Ann,
My understanding is not that all of these people are falling into your vortex, but that you have a huge vortex.
Huge, Ann, you have the huge vortex.
Huge.
\___/
RC, one of the top rated googles was this HR oriented one that you could be interested in
http://www.ahipubs.com/singleissue/2006/enl/elt8.8.06.html
Marcotte has attributed a position to Althouse that Althouse does not espouse. That, in short, is dishonest
It is only dishonest if you presume that Marcotte can distinguish fantasy from reality. :)
Yeah, that's pretty much my understanding.
Try telling judge and jury thought that you were able to Disregard such protected characteristics in your decision-making process.
That and the fact that to get to facebook means you violated their TOS, and the fact you were a bunch of lawyers knowingly doing so, I would throw the book at you.
RC, my general comments were about firms, not law firms.
I would throw the book at you.
I'm guessing you'd "throw the book" at anyone who disagreed with your worldview, crime or no crime.
Gasp or yawn? While I believe most of this kind of thing is a yawn, I can't help but be astonished, truly amazed at the lengths some people go to blame others for their problems. As I read Ms. Althouse's post, she was implying that people should toughen up and take this stuff for what it is. As I read Ms. Marcotte's post I understood her implication to be that [whine] women have been injured by those posters at AutoAdmit, and those people need to stop[/whine]". As a role model for my two daughters I prefer Ms. Althouse to Ms. Marcotte.
Internet Ronin said..."No Ann, that is the funny thing!"
But I picture everyone as good-looking until I actually see them. And here you were unseen and with this plus factor that your picture was being used. So you had risen to the level of best looking guy in the world! Now, you're wrecking my highly aesthetic mental life.
Amanda said..."You're morphing into Rush Limbaugh as we speak. Can't deal with the substance of the post, so call the woman hysterical and hope that your audience's misogyny will prevent them from seeing how silly that is. Luckily, your audience is stupid enough to swallow that one whole."
But ya are hysterical, Amanda. Ya are.
Bissage: How dare you! It is an accepted fact that Marcotte is a writer of unparalleled excellence! You should be ashamed of yourself! Next thing you know, someone might point out that Marcotte emotes instead of writes. Someone might even point that Marcotte utilizes vulgarities with abandon in order to disguise an obvious inability engage in reasoned argument.
stoqboy: "As a role model for my two daughters I prefer Ms. Althouse to Ms. Marcotte."
I wish I could have had myself as I am now to use as a role model back when I was in my 20s. I could have done so much more in life if I had figured out what I didn't learn until I was over 50 years old.
I know that fabulous liberation of a thick skin, a sense of humor, and a willingness to let other people have fun. I know how to see a push back for what it is and to stand my ground. It is so easy to push back women, and in the real world, people will take advantage. If you buy into the promise of Pretty Safety World, you will get encapsulated and made irrelevant by people who have more nerve than you.
Ironically, Amanda has a lot of nerve. But the ideas she's purveying will not help women succeed.
I'm guessing you'd "throw the book" at anyone who disagreed with your worldview, crime or no crime.
Typical fascist projection again.
Usually I am depicted as a bleeding heart let them all go free.
You conservatards just pick and choose.
I am glad to hear you admit that as a conservative you would let a law firm routinely break the law in its hiring practices and let them off with a hand job. (I mean slap on the wrist of course.)
So I assume then Professor Althouse that you are not serious about what you are asking Sadly, No! to do wrt commenters that impersonate you.
Is that correct?
We can't have that Ann! Suffice to say I looked something like this guy in my younger days.
Typical fascist projection again.
Your overreaction speaks volumes.
Not to mention the juvenile comment at 3:47.
This is why I love free speech. It makes it easy to spot the idiots.
Seriously, Ann, what bothers me most about "tempests in teapots" like this (because that is what they really are, after all) is the "push back" designed to ostracize or silence those who disagree, however slightly. Over and over again, I cannot help but notice it is almost always the same people who attempt it (and deny they are doing so while continuing to do it).
There are far more important issues worth discussing - the treatment of Hirsi Ali, to name but one. But these self-important people are too busy looking for enemies under their beds to confront the reality of life in the 21st century.
What a dummy, juveniles do not have the huge vortex, and you're probably a disgusting pervert for even bringing it up.
(And you are ignorant of the topics Professor Althouse herself has covered.)
After reading this, there is no way in hell I will vote for John Edwards.
- amba
what bothers me most about "tempests in teapots" like this (because that is what they really are, after all) is the "push back" designed to ostracize or silence those who disagree, however slightly.
Not only that, but Marcotte's attack on Althouse has distracted from the AutoAdmit scandal. For Marcotte, its not about the sexism, its about using it as a tool to club your "enemies" with.
I'm really surprised that the Edward's camp even gave her a second look. The more I see of Marcotte, the more I question his campaign's judgement. Doubt they'll survive past New Hampshire.
dear ann...
write down the day and time. i agree with your position and your observation 100%. she is a load and i am sincerely sorry that you have to get in your crosshairs.
she indeed is a low calibre loaded pistol.
reality_check - I was wondering if you are the frequent commenter here who once said that they were posting from Germany. (I know that there is a blogger-hack to search blog comments by user-id but I'm too lazy to look it up and use it.)
That's not me. I'm don't know who you are referring to.
(I am posting from inside your house. (No, I'm not.))
As one of the few (if not the only) commenters on Althouse that has actually forced Doyle and a few others into fits of anger at their inability to keep up with my comments - known as getting the better of them - I still recognize that they are intelligent voices, seeking often to tease the other political side. They are not hate-filled enemies of Althouse or America.
Amanda Marcotte, however, is exactly what I told you in the comments on the first Althouse posts - hate-filled, immature, morally and mentally underdeveloped.
I do not believe that she should be censored. But - she is not owed any consideration. Her writings are those of someone with a currently wasted life, which makes for every one of her readers wasted time.
That and the fact that to get to facebook means you violated their TOS, and the fact you were a bunch of lawyers knowingly doing so, I would throw the book at you.
The Facebook terms of service are irrelevant; they simply give Facebook the right to terminate your access if you violated them. They have no legal power to prevent anyone from using Facebook content to draw conclusions about Facebook users.
So there's no book to be thrown, here.
Thanks RC - It occurred to me the other day that I was mistaken in thinking that so figured I'd ask.
Well, bosox, if you make that kind of statement, you might want to amplify it by providing supporting documentation. Otherwise, most of us here will conclude that the hateful thoughts were contained entirely within your mind and then projected on to others. Your scatter-gun approach is not a proven winner but a sure loser.
bosox: "Where has Marcotte stated that [Ann thinks employers should discriminate against attractive women]? The title almost looks like that, except it says "Ann Althouse is exactly the kind of asshole...", key word being "kind"."
Could you possibly find a thinner hair to split? Where I'm from, if you say someone is the kind of asshole who thinks X, that's logically identical to just saying they think X.
key word being "kind".
Ya know, I can't really help you there. I'm not teaching another remedial English course tonight.
Althouse's reaction to that picture of Jessica from Feministing. And, yes, that is a nice example of Althousian sexism. I can't remember very many details, but overall the quote seems pretty accurate.
Details: Althouse questioned Jessica's awareness and judgement. Jessica [cluelessly?] affected a suggestive pose, back arched and breasts thrusts out, while centered in Clinton's photo op. I understand Jessica's counterpoint that she didn't intend it that way, and thats fine. But its not unreasonable to ask why any self-respecting feminist would put herself in that position to begin with. Like a civil rights leader posing with David Duke, unfurling a confederate flag.
But Marcotte's crowd fixated on the "breasts thrust out" remark and distorted the entire point of the thread. Likely because they didn't want to address Jessica's hypocritical comments about how "proud" she was of Clinton's contribution to the feminist movement. They distort to distract. Its intellectually dishonest, like your "kind" disqualifier.
It is worht noting that a couple of commenters here have repeatedly engaged in behavior remarkably similar to that which they are accusing Professor Althouse and others of condoning. [See also: The Shoe: Fits for Thee but not for Me!]
Yo, B!
The signal-to-noise ratio in their posts is so high, however, that it just isn't worth the effort to get to the rare gem that actually is worth thinking about much less responding to. (I do admire your high threshold, however ;)
About the only great good that comes of their innumerable comments is that their perverse and disturbing misogyny is well-documented.
Fen, you're an idiot.
A young woman stands up straight and with good posture and she gets picked on for shoving her breasts in your face.
There is a reason that doesn't happen to Ann.
Seven - I see a big differences in degree and intent, to name but two.
/sorry reality check, I have you on ignore b/c you are a troll
Oh Fen, you have me on "la la la can't hear you!" because you are frustrated by your constant lossage.
Lack of message control is very frustrating for you, isn't it?
/sorry reality check, I have you on ignore b/c you are a troll
So, Naked Lunch and Doyle, having read your comments, the readers here are forced to conclude that you agree 100% with, and endorse without hesitation, the comments of Ms. Marcotte and those that are writing comments on her blog.
LOL. No, I can't endorse or condone even what I write. Blog comments are supposed to a free for all, that's why I chime in. And if you notice I go out of my way not to comment on Ann's personal biz.
As for Amanda, I hardly read her blog, but probably a lot more when Michael Bérubé starts writing there. But what I find funny, and why I tune in, is Amanda is completely unafraid of Republicans and it drives them crazy. They're not used to it.
You're right Ann. Amanda's tirade is nutty.
The first few paragraphs are readable, but it quickly degenerates after that.
She goes off on Bush voters only read Ann (or something) and NYT should fire Althouse the hussy, blahblah)...
These girls want to be included in grownup conversations, but can't participate without namecalling, labeling, misidentifying, and even politicizing every rant.
Mature feminists are able to see beyond that sort of thing.
No, I can't endorse or condone even what I write
And you wonder why people ignore your arguments -- not even YOU pay attention to them. :)
they didn't want to address Jessica's hypocritical comments about how "proud" she was of Clinton's contribution to the feminist movement.
Huh?
What's hypocritical about a feminist being proud of perhaps the most misogynistic politician of the 20th century?
I mean all he did is commit serial adultry, sexual harassment, sexual assault, alledged (and probable) rape, send powerful women out to lie for him, and call powerless wome "nuts and sluts" when he could get away with it.
It's not lile he pointed to a pubic hair on a Coke can or anything like that.....
bosox is the kind of person who doesn't understand the English language. :)
Oh Gahrie, prove it or shut up.
Clinton was the subject of the most expensive and one of the longest independent investigations, and NONE, I repeat NONE of your allegations were found to have a shred of evidence.
Just what the hell are you teaching to those poor kids anyway?
bosox is the kind of person who doesn't understand the English language
Hmm, more of that famous conservative polite and respectful conversation?
Ann! Ban the libtards they are mean! Ban the libtards they are soo nasty!
bosox, I appreciate your concern for how I spend my time, I really do, and promise to give it all due consideration.
The funny thing is that Marcotte and Althouse are both the worse kind of full of shit feminists.
I speak as a card-carrying (well t-shirt wearing) feminist for 35 years.
Both are the kind of judgmental idiots that say, I believe feminism is X and you believe Y so you are a women-defeating monster.
The truth is that both Althouse and Marcotte are 2nd wave sexual judgmental feminists. The problem arises that Marcotte likes to claim she is a 3rd waver, but examining her posts demonstrates that she is very judgmental about the sexual practices of married women and all men. Tie that together with Althouse's inability to acknowledge when she makes a mistake, and the observation both of these girls are bullies, and you have what we constantly see:
For the dumbest catfights and dickfights on the Net, visit althouse.blogspot.com or pandagon.net.
Both are full of shit.
Althouse's judgment goes so far as to make the claim that if Althouse who patently ignores her own partisan bias believes X about a politician, than any feminist that doesn't believe X must be the anti-christ.
So Althouse who is a right wing partisan makes unsupported judgmental claims about Clinton and will not pay any attention to anyone that disagrees with her. Althouse claims that is her feminism speaking -- it is her political partisan bias speaking.
But then there is Gahrie who is neither feminist nor democrat and he is in much less of a position to talk. Over and over again, it is clear that Gahrie has no knowledge of the actual facts, and just spews the talking points he found at LGF.
The creator of Lil' Abner, Al Capp, once featured a made-up student group in a number of strips, "Students Wildly Indignant About Nearly Everything"(SWINE).
Marcotte and her fellow travelers remind me of it with almost every post they write.
LOL. No, I can't endorse or condone even what I write.
I've often wondered. (All kidding aside, the problem with that, as I see it, is that what gets written supposedly in jest or "character" is often unintentionally self-revealing. YMMV, of course)
Blog comments are supposed to a free for all, that's why I chime in. And if you notice I go out of my way not to comment on Ann's personal biz.
Free-for-alls don't bother me personally. The intentional cruelty of some comments people make about others is something I could happily live without witnessing. The intentional misrepresentation of facts or statements to advance an agenda is, unfortunately, to be expected, but it is still a shame so many engage in it (when it is so easy to fact-check them these days). It is strange how many people engage in mind-reading or reading between the lines on the internet instead of just asking for clarification.
One thing I will never fully comprehend is why so many people who basically post anonymously are so unwilling to ever admit a mistake. But then, I've rarely had that problem in real life, either. Why is it so hard to say, "I was wrong."?
As to the last, yes, I have noticed.
Apologies for the ramble.
By the way if someone were to argue that none of my assertions about Pres. Clinton were proven (notice ts important, just proof), I would respond that when Clinton plead guilty to lying under oath, he admitted to at least one of them, and showed two more of them to be true. The only charge that a fair minded individual would not accept as true, I labeled alledged.
Hmm, more of that famous conservative polite and respectful conversation?
I'm not a conservative, and if I ever claimed to be polite and respectful I assure you I was being sarcastic.
But I'm not sure what I said that was disrespectful in the post in question. I said bosox was the kind of person who didn't understand the English language. I never implied that he didn't understand the English language himself. What's wrong with being a kind of person who doesn't understand English who actually understands English? Some of my favorite people are people who speak English despite being the kind of people who don't speak English.
"If there are plenty of mean-spirited assholes out there like Ann..."
But, Ann, you're not mean-spirited!
Anyway, Amanda is from Austin and you know how whacky bloggers from state capital university towns are!
It's like they expect Ann to play Den Mother to all these emotionally unstable women and their sex problems.
Has Jill been raped yet?
What's taking so long?
Peace, Maxine
So if I might be pretentious enough to perform a bookend... Assholes! Assholes! All you evil neocons are always ASSHOLES!
"[Marcotte] is a talented and prolific writer"
Able to form grammatically correct sentences at length, yes. Talented, no.
Marcotte lives in a fantasy world and her writing doesn't engage the world the rest of us live in. It doesn't even work as polemics.
It's like watching a fanfic version of Lord of the Rings in which Boromir learns to overcome Elvish workplace oppression by writing fanfic. The only interesting aspect is the horrifying lack of self-awareness in the author.
Do any of these Gals have boyfriends?
None of 'em is marriage material.
Not quite ready for Playboy, either, I'm assuming.
Peace, Maxine
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND AMANDA MARCOTTE'S PROBLEM. ANN CLEARLY WAS NOT ATTACKING HER. ANN'S SUPPOSEDLY SEXIST ANTI-BREAST, ANTI-HOT COMMENTS ONLY APPLY TO BIG-BREASTED HOTTIES. AMANDA MARCOTTE HAS SMALL BREASTS AND IS NOT HOT.
AS AN ASIDE, ANN IS HOT AND HAS LOVELY BREASTS. AND I ACCIDENTALLY HIT THE CAPS LOCK BUTTON BECAUSE I WAS TEMPORARILY BLINDED BY THE SIMULTANEOUS CONTEMPLATION OF ANN ALTHOUSE AND AMANDA MARCOTTE. WHY RUIN THE FORMER WITH THE LATTER? WHY? WHY?
"Can't deal with the substance of the post, so call the woman hysterical"
If Ann can or cannot handle the substance of your post is actually not relevant here, since the evidence that you are hysterical is pretty overwhelming.
If the applicability of the hysterical description was at issue, then your retort might be an effective one. However, you come across as a screeching parody of a conservative's caricature of an unhinged feminist psycho bitch from hell.
You've made the bed you lay in with your own style and your own hatred. Clean the sheets, smooth the spread, and go about whatever it is you did before you decided to expose to the world your hateful vacuousness.
The first paragraph of bosox’s 2:03 a.m. comment is a lot more fun if you read it like one of those perplexed, overloading androids in “I, Mudd”, giving its robot death speech with the blinking necklace badge and the smoke coming out of its ears.
Norman, coordinate!
Norman, coordinate!
Norman, coordinate!
(Nice work, Maxine.)
"I wonder if John Edwards is reading the thread."
Dunno. But I would bet a nickel his wife is participating in it.
Althouse is constantly critiqued/attacked on the left wing blogosphere..
Places like Padagon…Lawyers Guns Money..
For three reasons (in my judgment)
#1. She is a woman
#2. She is an Academic.
#3. She won’t toe their line.
Now- I’m no fawning fan of the thoughts of our lovely host-however the above three strike me as obvious. The Left knows enough to savagely protect its own space. Call it the Clarence Thomas effect….but a blogger like Ann cannot be simply be allowed to have contrarian opinion.
I wonder if John Edwards is reading the thread.
Odds are, he's busy
primping away.
Over at "Lawyers Guns & Money" this week
http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/
They called her a "Misogynist Enabler" -(??!!?!) with an intire post on the subject...
bosOx-- Listen to me:
Jill set forth the assertion that Internet gossip leads to rape. That's what she contends.
Ok, I'd like to see proof of that.
And so, we are all waiting patiently for Jill to get herself raped, which Jill urgently insisted, is going to happen any minute.
Jill also claims that she's so hot that men are traveling far and wide to get a look at her doing calisthenics at the gym.
Apparently Jill has such a hot body, that she cannot simply use a treadmill in the privacy of her own home, she must visit a public Gym.....
A body that hot, that demands to be on view at the Gym... surely would grace the pages of Playboy, would it not?
Why even bother going to the Gym and brag about your toned body, if you aren't looking to display it?
Anyway, back to the claim that Internet gossip leads to rape...
We're waiting.
Peace, Maxine
I dont think its possible to split hairs any finer than Bosox has done--I dont see where anyone has approved of the juvenile comments on the admit blog about women. Most of the commenters here have deemed them juvenile, sexist, silly and whatever.
I think Maxine has pretty well nailed it--if fact, its almost like that great 1950s song "standing on the corner watching all the girls go by..that cant put you in jail for what you are thinking...."
While very few people might not approve of what the folks are saying on that blog, doesnt mean that they are rapists, killers or anything else--Prior restraint, which I infer from what bosox and amanda et al are saying is what they want to see, doesnt seem to me to be the best way to go about it. The best way is simply to ignore the comments and get on with your life, rather than rail against something you arent going to fix anyway.
Revenant, "bos0x is the kind of person that doesn't understand the English language" does not mean "bos0x said that he doesn't understand the English language".
I didn't say that it did.
By the way, you are the kind of failure that would needlessly rehash something Seven Machos said, only even less eloquently. Twice, even!
Hey, just because Seven was the first to use that obvious joke for mocking you doesn't mean I can't use it too. :)
marcotte is a bore, and is without a lick of talent
anything i read on that site is embarrassing -- she hasn't progressed since her freshman year of college
If Marcotte's anger wasn't perptual, unfocused, unintelligent, and unfunny, her blog might be worth reading.
This is what I love about this blog. It's like an acid trip tour through a deranged Ripley's Republican Theme Park where no Republican are ever wrong or remotely guilty of anything, under any circumstances, no matter what. And in the Roomful of Mirrors Scooter Libby appears as Joe Wilson behind bars. Or his wife. Or Tim Russert. Or his neighbor. Or Sandy Berger. Or Arianna Huffington.
Do you use some sort of auto-post-generator or something? Throw in a noun or two and out comes the anti-republican screed?
I ask because your comment bears no relation whatsoever to the ongoing discussion, which is a disagreemnt between two left of center women about how badly photos of herself online might hurt a woman's job prospects.
Do you use some sort of auto-post-generator or something? Throw in a noun or two and out comes the anti-republican screed?
Hmm...
You may be on to something.
bos0x, you clearly have not read enough of Maxine to understand her.
I think bosox has a crush on Maxine.
And who can blame him?
Hubba, hubba!
I should add that it's not just Maxine's comments in this thread. You really have to read her for days or weeks to grasp the true Maxinity. At least I did.
Revenant
Ok I see a George Bush conspiracy generator. What does it have to do with my post?
Dewave
Just wheel-scroll by, like I do. It only hurts if you let it.
you don't mean Althouse, do you?
I am referring to Althouse and Marcotte.
Ok I see a George Bush conspiracy generator. What does it have to do with my post?
Ironically, it had more to do with your post than your post had to do with this thread.
Explain to me what Maxine was attempting to convey then
Hint: Maxine often reminds us that we take ourselves too seriously
Dewave
It didn't bother you because you thought it was off topic. Then why? Spit it out.
bosox: Are you trying to say that it was satire? I asked for an explanation, not a riddle. Speaking of poor reading comprehension.
I can't give you more than that hint. Don't want to ruin the fun for everyone else. Swing harder at her next pitch please.
bosox: I think a better characterization would be "a disagreement between a left of center woman and a conservative tool".
Marcotte's not on the Rove payroll, she's not a tool. She discredits the Left for free.
heh, it actually speaks much more of those who think ann is somehow "left" of center because not all of her views are deranged...
if she were truly left of center, no way no how would her regular commenters be comprised of 80 percent nutters
it actually speaks much more of those who think ann is somehow "left" of center because not all of her views are deranged...
Well if *all* her views were deranged she wouldn't be "left of center" -- she'd just be "left".
But her lack of any conservative views at all -- unless disliking Democrats counts, in which case Noam Chomsky's a conservative too -- obviously disqualifies her as a conservative. That just leaves "center" and "left" as options.
Revenant, I think you have a second calling; writing those screen shots on FOX like "Libby found not guilty of lying to the Federal Investigators".
Mike, I think Ann summed it up best herself. Somewhere between Guiliani and Lieberman. If I had to guess it would be a moderate Republican.
I wonder how many people are in between Giuliani and Lieberman on the Political Spectrum.
Mike
The honest answer to your question is I don't think she is a classic conservative - but whatever her persuasion is she is entitled to it, to blog about it, to decide what to blog about, and to tell someone to get out of her face.
"Are MySpace comments rape?" Althouse pleads,
"Pixels, equal to heinous deeds?"
Most think they are not
But Amanda Marcotte
Sees dread harvests in virtual seeds.
defining one as conservative or liberal by their views on abortion or gay marriage is about as stupid an exercise as i can think of.
neither has any relevance to the daily life of the average person.
It's very important for some people to try to portray Ann as a conservative. They can't accept the fact that a woman acedemic doesn't religiously toe the left's ideological line.
For such folks calling someone a conservative is simply a dishonest attempt to delegitimize the opinions of anyone who disagrees with them, no matter where they fall on the political spectrums.
The fact that Ann, who doesn't really hold any conservative opinions of her own, is sometimes critical of other leftists, is anathema to these folks: they demand blind unswerving unthinking lockstep conformity. 'Apostates' will be severely prosecuted!
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