Writes Anne Carson — who just won the Nobel Prize for Literature — in "Lecture on the History of Skywriting" (a chapter of the collection called "Wrong Norma" (commission earned)).
A Paris Review interviewer asked her, "Tell me about the 'wrongness' in the title of Wrong Norma." She answered:When people ask me, “How are Canadians different from Americans?” I say, “Canadians have one characteristic: they’re polite, but wrong.” All the time, polite but wrong. “Wrong” I put in the title because, well, because of the Canadian thing. And also, something you always feel in academic life is that you’re wrong or on the verge of being wrong and you have to worry about that, because everything is so judgmental and hierarchical. Getting tenure depends on XYZ being “not wrong” every time you speak. So it’s kind of a mentality I was interested in disabling. It’s something Simone Weil says in an essay she has about contradiction, because people find contradiction in philosophical texts so perplexing, and she specializes in contradiction. She says it’s a useful mental event, because it loosens the mind. And once you can loosen, you can go on to think other things or wider things or the things underneath where you were. It’s just suddenly a different landscape. And that loosening, I think, is what wrongness allows in. I could talk about wrongness tomorrow and say an entirely other thing. A person is a prism, you know, and concepts just flash from this to that from day to day.
Ha ha. I remember once, long ago, saying to a colleague that I thought the risk of being wrong was essential figuring out anything new. I thought that was an exciting idea. He gave me quite the stinkface. The stinkface isn't interesting. It isn't even an argument. It doesn't even take the risk of saying, "You're wrong."

68 comments:
I appreciate you nudging us to consider and appreciate this lady's work. I'm not able to, but I appreciate the effort.
I think that hawks and falcons choosing to fly through the sky, rather than mud or corduroy, shows fantastic judgement. Some think it's just laziness, but not me.
I'd rather read "Skywriting by Word of Mouth" by John Lennon.
I still can't believe Dylan won.
Or Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
Geez, are her books like that? I think I'll pass. (Yes, I understood what she was saying.)
Has that which she describes about academic life metastasized into other cultural institutions? Is it now manifesting as the full blown, malignant tumors of woke and cancel culture?
I think I know this Norma lady.
"He gave me quite the stinkface. The stinkface isn't interesting. It isn't even an argument. It doesn't even take the risk of saying, "You're wrong.""
I guess he couldn't think of any names to call her.
Listening to modern poetry is very different from reading it.
Modern poetry cares a lot about odd line breaks, i.e., "enjambment". They make a big deal about how when you break a sentence in the middle, the first half can suggest one thing while the second half gives a different perspective. I've gotten a little out of that, but not much and it seems too cute.
So listening to a poem is very different because all the enjambment and fragmentation gets mooshed together and the poem just sounds like a bunch of sentence fragments of various lengths. It doesn't sound much like poetry, just a fragmented essay.
BTW, this seems pretty recent. Elliot, Ginzburg, and Frost sound like poetry and I "get" them. This new stuff, though, not so much.
I listened to Carson's book/poem The Beautiful Husband after she won the Nobel to take a look. It was kind of interesting. I listened to it twice to get used to her style. So, if you want to give Carson I try, I recommend that strategy. It is less than two hours long so listening to it twice is not a big deal.
Similarly, Jon Fosse won a Nobel a few years ago for Septology which has no punctuation or formatting and is close to unreadable on the page. But, if you listen to it, it is easily understood because it is just a person rambling with lots of verbal indications of when sentences begin and end. (He constantly says "I think" to end a sentence or paragraph.)
The longer quoted section is interesting and certainly an astute observation of modern discussion. There seems less space for someone to simply make their own observation without someone remarking “you’re wrong”.
“Canadians have one characteristic: they’re polite, but wrong.”
And their beer sucks.
As for contradiction, one of the surest ways to tell, currently, if something is written by AI is finding contradictions even within a single paragraph, when the contradiction comes from the LLM not noticing certain aspects of the words they use when they are obvious to human readers. Like saying that there is a hawk flying in the cerulean vault of the heavens, and then averring that the hawk is in a cage. OK, that's probably not a good example, but it came to mind, and nothing else does.
"And their beer sucks."
We used to make weed money by driving across the border to Brewers Retail and buying cases of beer, which were stacked in our apartment like you see in those old Bob and Doug McKenzie bits—Remember Joni's song "I could drink a case of you?—and selling them for twice what we paid. But that was years ago, and American beer has improved a lot. But at that time, compared to Brador, American beer was basically piss.
The "Louisiana Channel" has nothing to do with crawfish and Cajuns. The title refers to an museum in Denmark that is confusingly named the Louisiana Museum of Modern Art.
Neil De Grasse Tyson is all over the internet plugging his podcast with the quote, “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right, but not enough to know you're wrong.” I suppose that has much to do with astronomy, but it's something for Canadians -- and the rest of us -- to keep in mind.
This reminds me of: "The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't."
Her earlier works are less esoteric.
Too many people get upset because they hate the idea of people thinking they're wrong. But everyone is wrong from time to time. The only way to correct yourself is to acknowledge and celebrate your wrongness as a necessary step towards being right.
"I am called, Archibald the all right...because I am infallible." - from Gilbert and Sullivan's, Patience.
“How are Canadians different from Americans?”
Weird Al actually has a song about that called, Canadian Idiot.
No way, eh? Take off, you hoser!
And yes, I have had to water the ice after driving the Zamboni. That is one of the weird kind of jobs that you have to do as a theme park tech in So Cal.
"But everyone is wrong from time to time."
I see we haven't met. Good morning.
I read the story posted here awhile back. It was accomplished writing. If you're into that sort of thing, she's worth your time. Not much in the way of narrative hooks to catch your attention though, but the talent did...........I read an interesting statistic. Of the last ten National Book Award and Pulitzer Prize winners only one was a white male. And he was Jewish and probably the kind of Jew with a nuanced view of Gaza. So just be glad that this year's Nobel winner isn't trans or some third world Marxist.
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?
Rainbows would have to find another parking spot.
Is she related to Chance the Gardener?
Is Kamala Harris edging ever so close to Nobel?
Canadians are not particularly open-minded. She's wrong about that.
Apparently Canadian's one characteristic is they're polite, but wrong, and can't count.
Canada gave the world Norm Macdonald.
Getting that right, makes up for all the times they are wrong, in perpetuity.
Canadians being different from Americans in that they are “polite, but wrong” can be interpreted as Americans being “polite, but right”. Is that was she’ intending?
Whiskeybum said...
"Canadians being different from Americans in that they are “polite, but wrong” can be interpreted as Americans being “polite, but right”. Is that was she’ intending?"
I'd rather be rude but right, than polite but wrong,
[start virtual italics]The "Louisiana Channel" has nothing to do with crawfish and Cajuns. The title refers to a museum in Denmark that is confusingly named the Louisiana Museum of Modern Art.[end virtual italics]
I wondered, too. Apparently, Alexander Brun, the original owner of the property now encompassing the museum, named his estate "Louisiana" after his three wives, named Sophie Louise, Louise, and Louise, with the -ana suffix meaning something like "belonging" to someone. When businessman Knud W. Jensen bought the property to build his museum, he apparently kept the historic estate's name, "Louisiana."
So this clears up the confusion re: Louisiana, which of course we Americans immediately think of as one of our states. However, there's still the question: How confusing would it be to have all three of your wives have the same name (did Sophie Louise actually go by "Louise"?)? Or maybe it would be less confusing...you wouldn't mix up names if they're all the same, right? I am assuming these were sequential, not simultaneous, wives, by the way.
Now I'm actually curious about some random estate owner in 19th century Denmark and his wives. Grrrrrrr.
Americans can https://share.google/ItKkceokVEfN7vjZD
Interesting! I like the idea of allowing wrongness, gives us room to work. Further, it seems to relate closely to forgiveness, which is good for us all.
Speaking of wrong, and here I refer to me, I couldn't get past the first three sentences of the interview. Correct me please, if I am indeed wrong, and forgive me, too, but, "one characteristic?" Are we not considering two characteristics: Polite, but Wrong? Different states, coincident, therefore two? If I am tall, but fat, am I not tall (one state) and also fat (another state)? I am not "tallfat," because that is not a characteristic. Perhaps the Germans (or George Orwell) have words for "tallfat" and "politewrong," but English has not. Yet.
Those be some deep thoughts.
Sometimes my shortening attention span is a blessing and a time saver.
The problem isn't her mediocre writing.
The problem is this parasite lived off the US taxpayer all her life and produced nothing of value that anyone was willing to pay for. She was paid a 6 figure salary for most of her life, given unearned social status, and contributed nothing except massive student loan debt.
This is how we "closed the wage gap."
People want to know what causes inflation and what inflation is.
This woman is the walking talking embodiment of inflation.
She contributed 0 value of goods produced.
She was paid a massive salary that allowed her to purchase goods driving demand and prices up.
The government paid her salary with money it didn't have.
She was placed above any number of productive people who actually made things people want. It is reprehensible.
“The stinkface isn't interesting. It isn't even an argument. It doesn't even take the risk of saying, "You're wrong."”
It’s saying, in Pauli’s famous phrase, “You’re not right. You’re not even wrong.” Kinda the way I feel about Carson.
Bertand Russel said that stupid people often misquote you because they have to translate your words into something that they can understand and often your actual ideas won’t fit into that space. And apparently name calling is somehow satisfying to them.
“Not even wrong” is just a way of saying “you don’t accept my premises, because if you just believed those things that I believe, you would not doubt my words.”
Heads went there first.
Not an exact match but close enough for Blogger.
What percentage of the literate population finds this interesting? How many of those people would still be interested one year from now? A low percentage, and very few. And the rest of us won't care.
Laslo Spatula fell in love with Autobiography of Red and posted a lot of comments on it, long ago.
The more you accomplish, the more mistakes you’ll make—-and correct—-along the way. And the best poem about a hawk is The Windhover, by Gerard Manley Hopkins.
Little people are afraid of what they cannot imitate.
Well if althouse is nudging people in the comment section to enjoy this Nobel Prize winner, she's on a fool's errand.
With a few exceptions of course. Why she's not even 'murican. And gal darn it, she writes that thar modern poetry. Give me a good Hank Williams tune or some Pinter drama. At least they were men.
And why didn't George R.R. Martin win a prize. Now, there was some fancy writing. All them dragons and such.
The worst part of it is, you can't even attack her. Why if she was Jewish, then it'd be open season. Cause that's all Jewish Nobel prize winners get is grief. No matter how good there are.
But she's Canadian. So, shes' protected. And all them thar Canunks will descend on you if you dare criticize her. The anti-canadian defamention league is strong.
Anyhoo, she's not "dark and gritty" enough for my taste. High literature should be about backstabbing, zombies and rapes. And some dragons.
"Canadians are polite" has to be the most hackneyed tripe in American society.
Canadians are assholes. Jealous, obnoxious, smug assholes.
And Bertrand Russell was full of shit too.
The big problem with Falcons is that if they are not up by at least three scores going into the 4th quarter there is 90% chance they will lose.
“Canadians are polite but wrong.” That rings true, but there are still Canadian Karens.
You have to make it a four quadrant graph and put it on a PowerPoint. High Polite-High Wrong, older Canadians with money, High Polite-Low wrong, Canadians who work in the US and make 75% more money, Low Polite-High wrong, Women HR managers in Quebec, Low Polite-Low Wrong, Oil workers and Miners in Alberta.
The only known way of distinguishing Canadians from Americans is by telling them that Canadians are indistinguishable from Americans and seeing how they react.
Anne Carson looks distinctly uncomfortable every time I see her.
I thought koans were supposed to be short.
I remember once, long ago, saying to a colleague that I thought the risk of being wrong was essential figuring out anything new.
Or someone else said - in somewhat related comment - the only way you can go far enough is for someone to go "too far".
Ben Bankus is a great, so-unwoke-it-hurts, comedian from Canada who is a great replacement, if one was ever possible, for Norm. Ben says things that would get you cancelled so fast just a little while ago. Give him a look-see.
In any case. i don't approve of all crazy "Newness" and "Crossing boundries". Is it authorized and approved by the powerful? That is the only question.
"A person is a prism, you know, and concepts just flash from this to that from day to day."
From AA Literature: "To "wear the world like a loose garment" means not letting minor troubles, chaos, or surface-level wrongs deeply upset you. It encourages emotional detachment from things you cannot control and a reliance on inner serenity, faith, or spiritual grounding rather than white-knuckle control."
Well, Lem, you are right about Norm MacDonald.
But he was also pretty low on the politeness scale.
"...the risk of being wrong was essential figuring out anything new."
The blue-collar version is "hold my beer", in which the risk is usually much more real.
Canadian poet Standish O'Grady immigrated, looked around, and went back home. On Canadians
Here forests crowd, unprofitable lumber,
O'er fruitless lands indefinite as number;
Where birds scarce light, and with the north winds veer
On wings of wind, and quickly disappear,
Here the rough Bear subsists his winter year,
And licks his paw and finds no better fare . . .
The lank Canadian eager trims his fire,
And all around their simpering stoves retire;
With fur clad friends their progenies abound,
And thus regale their buffaloes around;
Unlettered race, how few the number tells,
Their only pride a cariole and bells ....
Perchance they revel; still around they creep,
And talk, and smoke, and spit, and drink, and sleep
Canadians have their virtues. And their vices. Just like the rest of us. I'd certainly love if New England left us, and joined them.
And I certainly don't want Canada to join us. Either in part, or in whole. Like the English, there's something wrong with them. In their souls. They're wankers. Losers. Too much of a love of the Establishment. Too conformist. Too bland.
Canadians do well in the USA. Because its the talented tenth. But the rest of them don't rebel. They don't think. They conform. If the people in charge are good. So are they. If not..
Free speech in Canada doesnt exist. Their leaders want 50 million Indians and whatevers to move their. Money in their pocket, donthchaknow. And everyone's cool with it. Even the dummies that will have their lives destroyed. And wont make any $$ off it.
Its like WW 1 and WW 2, most Americans were like "Hey why should we die in some war, over there?" But the canadians were like: "Woo hoo, our Government tells us to fight and die. Let me get a piece of that". So, 50 thousand canadians died in WW1. The same death toll as the USA, with 1/10 the population. WW2 was the same.
So yeah Canadians are "Polite". So are the English. Unless you break the rules. And if the "Rules" are set by people who hate them, they'll still follow "The rules".
I like this: Asked how to put a manuscript in order, she said to “throw it down the stairs and then pick it up.“
Also this:
In spring 2020 she and her husband, Robert Currie, taught a seminar at NYU called “Egocircus, a Workshop in Collaboration.” Several of the students still meet, travel and eat with the couple years later, as a group that is also called EgoCircus.
Stan Rogers was a great great Canadian folk musician, one of the few that was not a girl. He sang of a Canada that was a great land, not a land of the great.
The best of Canadians are misplaced Scots looking around for something to fight for.
“ From the Vancouver Island to the Alberta Highland
'Cross the Prairies, the lakes to Ontario's towers
From the sound of Mount Royal's chimes, up to the Maritimes
Something to sing about, this land of ours.
I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan
Followed the sun to the Vancouver shore
Watched it climb shiny new up the snow peaks of Caribou
Up to the clouds where the wild Rockies soar
I have heard the wild wind sing the places that I have been
Bay Bull and Red Deer and Strait of Bells Isle
Names like Grand Mere and Silverthorne
Moose Jaw and Marrowbone,
Trails of the pioneer, named with a smile
I have wandered my way to the wild wood of Hudson Bay
Treated my toes to Quebec's morning dew
Where the sweet summer breeze kissed the leaves of the maple trees
Sharing this song that I'm sharing with you
Yes there's something to sing about, tune up a string about
Call out in chorus or quietly hum
Of a land that is still young, with a ballad that's still unsung
Telling the promise of great things to come.”
Oscar Brand.
At the risk of over commenting about Canada, I consider Canada to be the US’s much younger brother who never had to work hard and could not get into a good school.
The English Canadians used to hate the Quebecois because they had zero desire to fight in ww1 or ww2. But who was right?
Later these same english canadians would fight to keep the Quebecois in canada,when they wanted to leave. Okey-dokey, dummies. Y'got your wish. LOL.
What do the English canadians really want? Well money. But i mean other than money. Its hard to tell. They dont want to be English. They dont to be 'muricas (in name). They don't want to Christian or white. So they want to be....what? Jewish? Indian? rich? who knows.
Its a loser country. Filled with losers.
Heh. Carson pretending to be the 19c French poet Stephane Mallarme?
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