That's a perplexity I'd filed away in the back of my memories for a long time, but, just not, I decided to put it to Grok. Response:
The experience you describe is a classic case of two overlapping human quirks colliding in a dark theater: intense fandom and conflict avoidance.Why the stranger did itGeorge Carlin’s later specials were tightly written, repeatedly performed, and widely released on albums, HBO, and later DVD/streaming. Dedicated fans treated those recordings the way some people treat favorite albums or movie dialogue—they listened until the timing, cadence, and punchlines were automatic. Reciting along is a known (if usually quieter) behavior at comedy shows, rock concerts, and cult-movie screenings. For that young man it was almost certainly an expression of pure enthusiasm rather than malice or performance for the audience. He was essentially singing along to his favorite record in real time, immersed enough that the social cue “other people paid to hear Carlin, not me” never registered. Some people simply lack the filter that tells them when private joy has become public disruption; others are so carried away by the material that the filter is temporarily offline.Why you did nothingMost of us are wired to avoid low-stakes confrontation, especially with strangers in a shared public space. Intervening risked an argument, a scene, or the possibility of looking like the “bad guy” in front of hundreds of people. In the moment the cost of speaking up felt higher than the cost of enduring the recitation. There is also a quieter, more generous impulse at work: recognizing that the guy was having a peak experience and deciding, almost unconsciously, not to puncture it. Looking back, that restraint can feel baffling—especially once the annoyance has had years to crystallize in memory—but it is extremely common. We regularly choose temporary discomfort over the unpredictable social energy of telling someone to stop.
Both behaviors are ordinary once you strip away the specific setting. One person was so deep in the material he forgot the rest of the room existed; the other calculated (or simply felt) that the disruption wasn’t worth escalating. Neither choice is mysterious once you grant that people routinely prioritize their own internal state—whether ecstasy or conflict-aversion—over perfect consideration of the people next to them.
This makes me remember: 1. I also calculated that if I spoke to him, I would then have to think about my own behavior and his reaction which might have been even more distracting, 2. I was worried about sacrificing all of my enjoyment and needing to feel bad about myself as the repressive shusher, and 3. I actually took into account what I imagined Carlin might think of us.

30 comments:
>Althouse said: I was worried about sacrificing all of my enjoyment and needing to feel bad about myself as the repressive shusher<
"Needing to"?? What on earth is this bizarre need? Anyway, there's the crux of your problem back then...and now, I guess.
As the old saying goes, His right to swing his fist stops at my nose. Likewise, his right to "enjoy" himself by being a noisy, inconsiderate jerk stops at my ears. You owed him no consideration whatsoever.
But you saw/see it differently, obviously. To which I can only say that your pacifism there didn't give you the moral superiority that you thought it did; it merely enabled and supported a bully - as that always does.
""Needing to"?? What on earth is this bizarre need?"
I said I was "worried about needing to." I didn't want to find out how I would actually feel but I was being risk averse. That's how conflict avoidance works. You don't know how bad it will be if you dare but you can visualize how it might be and choose to to find out.
#2--you have to balance the aural disturbance of having to listen to this guy's chatter when you paid for Carlin's chatter. BUT the awkward unpleasantness would also be a distraction that would stay with you and mar your memory of the show.
That's why theaters employ ushers. It's their job to act as the bad guy so you don't have to.
Would you have been as risk-averse if it had been a young woman? I would have been. I have less interest in potentially provoking a man who is already off-kilter (as evidenced by his behavior) because the ways that could all go south are worse (in my judgment) than asking an off-kilter young woman to cut it out. There is a totally different factor though and wonder if this was part of your calculation, which is a version of the utilitarian calculus and the greatest happiness. Part of your brain might have sized up the situation where he was attaining happiness/pleasure at a 10-level, while you were experiencing unpleasantness that was maybe a 5, so balancing it out, by letting him continue, you were helping add 5 net happiness/pleasure points to the world.
It is possible to be the loving, inviting shusher? Karen-ism is a choice of the heart. The substantive complaint to the manager might be fully warranted, and if done lovingly might be better for all, the shusher and the shushed.
“Most of us are wired to avoid low-stakes confrontation, especially with strangers in a shared public space.”
This is one of AI’s more irritating characteristics, including itself with humanity. It’s not human. I call Grok on this all the time. It apologizes but doesn’t remember. It does it a lot. It wants you to think of it as human.
Could that ‘conflict avoidance’ spill over into areas where one does need to intervene. Like if one sees a woman or a child in danger? My tentative answer is yes. But I suppose the answer is to make those assessments in a case by case basis. It’s a social penumbra.
"This is one of AI’s more irritating characteristics, including itself with humanity...."
So you'd like it to say "Most of you humans are wired to avoid low-stakes confrontations" and things like that, talking like an android in an old sci-fi movie or like "My Favorite Martian"?
As a free-love Boomer, did you consider that maybe the guy just needed some female attention to calm him down? How good looking was he? Did that enter into your calculus? And if you had, um, helped him dispel some of that energy, how would Carlin have reacted? The list of words you can't say on TV might have gone up to 8: 'shutuphandjob!' CC, JSM
"Most of you humans..." Most people, Most Americans, most men, most women, etc. would be better. Heh, I haven't thought about Ray Walston in decades. He died about 25 years ago.
Harsh words would have been spoken to him to STFU.
Happened to me in a slightly different situation, involving use of cell phone during event that had specifically prohibited it. I said something to person in front of me. All upset afterwards: your intervention caused more disruption than my cell, etc. And that's what the a**#$@*s count on, your rational submission.
The modern view might be that there's a good chance of some autism is involved.
Grok should've said "Most of you people are wired to avoid low-stakes confrontation:"
“I didn't want to find out how I would actually feel but I was being risk averse.”
But you didn’t include in your risk assessment how you would feel “once the annoyance has had years to crystallize in memory”. Now that you know, would you have acted differently?
“Part of your brain might have sized up the situation where he was attaining happiness/pleasure at a 10-level, while you were experiencing unpleasantness that was maybe a 5, so balancing it out, by letting him continue, you were helping add 5 net happiness/pleasure points to the world.”
The happiness of asstards is not a positive for the world.
There's a lot of irrational jerks out there. Look at the Democrat Congressional candidate in Hawaii who was asked to turn his music down, got into a confrontation and pulled a knife and was cold-cocked for his trouble.
The last time I saw Simon and Garfunkel in concert (2003), the woman next time to me began singing along. I let it go the first song, thinking she'd now stop, but no. So midway through the second song I told her I'd paid several hundred dollars to hear them, not her. Judging by her reaction, if she'd had a knife or gun in her purse I wouldn't be here now, but she did shut up.
Was there anyone else around? Did they talk to him - or ignore him? Why was the Burden on Althouse to "Take Charge"?
Certain people just don't think of others. Or they think their "Music" or their singing along or talking along is cool. I can't tell you how many sunsets at Beach have been ruined by some asshole deciding that "Isn't this lovely, let me blast out my fucking rock'roll/rap whatever song". I've talked to a few and their reaction is always one of surprise "I thought everyone liked XYZ".
The first mistake was going to a George Carlin show.
"Grok should've said "Most of you people are wired to avoid low-stakes confrontation:""
If Grok starts sounding like Howard, I'm out.
What would Carlin have done?
Would Carlin have scolded Ann for not being as devoted a fan and having come unprepared? Or would Carlin have scolded the loud reciter for competing for attention? I would guess the second. The audience paid to hear him, not an imitator.
Did you ask Grok for suggestions on how to handle this situation?
Were you angry? You objected very much so I assume yes. That emotional reaction set you up for a confrontation which you calculated would have been more negative than the annoyance you felt. While you were sitting there going through all those mental calculations, the guy was oblivious. Was he aware of you or not? IDK, you didn't say.
What if you had been able to compassionately state that you accepted his right to enjoy the performance and asked, couldn't he do that in a quieter voice as he was distracting you? I would have tried something like that with the intention not to escalate if he refused. I try to project my belief that the other person will do the right thing if they know, although at times I realize I am shaming them into it. IOW I don't count on it.
I have a neighbor whose son visits (because he's such a nice person) and blasts his car stereo so loudly the walls literally vibrate. Is he trying to insult all the white folks here? IDK. Neither she or he are worth the effort to deal with; not because I think he has a right to enjoy his stereo as loudly as he wishes, but because I think he is subhuman.
Discretion is the better part of valor, etc. I think Shakespeare agreed with you.
I went once to see a band, and there was a super fan in the audience who basically ruined the show by trying to include himself in it, in a way, from the audience. What made it hard to deal with was that the guy was obviously, let’s just say, “challenged,” and who wants to be that guy?
I always wonder the same thing about people listening to their phone out loud in public spaces. On the one hand, it ticks you off, but on the other hand, you almost feel sorry for a guy who’s that socially clueless.
He should curb his enthusiasm.
" And that's what the a**#$@*s count on, your rational submission."
This is true. We have a neighbor who has encroached on our property, and on a shared neighbor's property since they moved in. We both politely pointed out the boundaries of the properties the first time they encroached, but neither of us pushed it further when they ignored us. Now, several years later the boundaries very much need to be honored and enforced, there's a big conflict. Should have had the conflict earlier. It would have been easier to disabuse them of their mistaken ideas.
A lot of comedians say that they won't do specials very often, because it takes a long time to work up an hour of good material, but once it's televised, they can never perform it live again. And I do think most comedy is less funny when you've heard it before. (On the other hand, I'd pay a lot to see Jim Gaffigan do his early Hot Pockets and bacon routines.)
We saw the recent solar eclipse near Bloomington IN out in the country but at the same time Bill Shatner was at the IU stadium in town doing an eclipse show. We decided not to go and just get the natural look but it might have been fun.
One of the best things about Jimmy Carr is the way he specializes in humiliating obstreperous members of the audience. It’s a signature part of his show. Usually hecklers, but sometimes just jerks who are annoying the people around them. If they don’t settle down when he gets tired of making fun of them he doesn’t hesitate to have security throw them out. To much applause.
Well...in the next post I commented that you probably don't like stand up. I guess you cleared that up.
I'm surprised that you, the law professor, could not think of a way to just softly touch the man's arm and ask him if it would be alright if you were allowed to hear George Carlin do his routine alone. That's what you all paid for that night.
Was it TV that killed off vaudeville? You did your act once on TV and everyone knew it. You couldn't take it around the country and wow the crowd at every stop. Records did the same thing for Carlin's act.
I go through bouts of avoidance. Sadly, when it comes to conflict, I tend to be all in. I was once at a concert in New Paltz when the New York dolls were performing. I was Wearing a dungaree jacket with a Viking ship embroidered on the back. A guy. kept throwing sticks at my back. I flattened him and his nose.
How silly.
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