I’ll take “things I’ve never seen before” for 500 please. pic.twitter.com/gWVQkBDV2b
— Michaela Bennett (@MichaelaB_22) August 11, 2026
11 अगस्त 2026
"That's as strange as it gets."
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68 टिप्पणियां:
Baseball is changing I think. I notice that this season is being covered up with instances of tyrannical umpires, summarily throwing coaches and players out of the game, sometimes unfairly, lots of 'late pitch' calls, lots of rules enforcement. And I also notice quite a bit of poor sportsmanship, and by that I mean not only spoiled behavior, but lazy atheletes that aren't really paying attention.
Now this could easily be the Borg deciding to capture these clips and emphasize them to create a worldview. I haven't been watching a lot of baseball. Some of the mavens care to comment?
Time for Jomboy lipreading for the rest of the story
We are really in the baseball weeds when the umpires have to call New York to get a ruling. Holy shit.
And I thought "too much pine tar" was a controversy.
I like a fight where I can kick dirt on the umpire and call him a cocksucker and get tossed out of the game. That's my kind of fight. You confuse me with quantum mechanics and I'm just unhappy. Fourth out rule? What?
It has been a while since I was a baseball fan, but that ruling makes no sense. Doesn't the runner have to tag up and then run after the ball is caught (i.e., a sacrifice fly)?
I thought I had commented about this play in last night’s sun rise. It must’ve been caught by the spam? I guess.
Very much looking forward to Jomboy’s treatment.
Earlier this season, Cleveland rookie Cooper Ingle threw a ball into the stands thinking it was the third out when it was only the second. A runner scored.
Only a lawyer would find this interesting and tune in to watch.
Physicality is the embodiment of sport.
This is what we get for playing baseball in Canada.
ESPN explains it and it all it does is make my brain hurt.
"Appeal plays may require an umpire to recognize an apparent 'fourth out,'" the rule states. "If the third out is made during a play in which an appeal play is sustained on another runner, the appeal play decision takes precedence in determining the out. If there is more than one appeal during a play that ends a half-inning, the defense may elect to take the out that gives it the advantage. For the purpose of this rule, the defensive team has 'left the field' when the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory on their way to the bench or Clubhouse.'"
I went to law school and you got me, brother. There are only two rules. Love God. Love your neighbor as yourself.
And run like hell for home because maybe it will count.
"The computer scoreboard said there were two outs. Everybody in the workplace knows you go by what the computer says... what a dilemma!"
Trying to follow this. When the play started, were there one or two outs?
For both teams to erroneously believe there were two outs is to me the unusual thing about this play.
Having the rule says to me that it’s happened before.
They have been calling NY for several years now. They also have a system where players can challenge balls and strikes and the pitch is immediately reviewed electronically. Each team gets two challenges and another if they are successful. It seems to work quite well and there isn't any more kicking dirt, etc. Speeds up the game and both the players and the umps are apparently happy with it.
The fact that it worked out for the Red Sox is just par for the course. They have been on an absolutely unbelievable run for the last month and a half. Also if the scoreboard was wrong the burden should fall on the home team. Although you have to wonder why nobody was aware of it. Maybe they were all checking their phones.
Here’s the obscure rule: “MLB Rule 5.09(c)(4) governs appeal plays and the "fourth out". If the third out of an inning is made during a play where a separate appeal-able baserunning mistake also occurred (like failing to tag up), the defense can appeal for a "fourth out" to supersede the third out, which can nullify a run. However, the defense must make this appeal before the pitcher and all infielders leave fair territory.”
Sound like the ruling was correct, but the rule that it was based on needs perhaps fixing. It should probably be that the defense can get the third out by appeal at any base, and no runner can score on the play. If it were simply a force out at first, the rule is the runner from third can't score, even if he reaches home before the force out is made at first. Seems like the same should apply where a runner already at first fails to tag up after a fly ball out -- if the defense gets the ball back to first, the runner from third should not be allowed to score. All of that said, maybe players should simply be taught to always go to third to get the out on those plays.
Maynard--you are correct, but the rule they applied is that the other team has to tag the base that the runner left to record the out--before they leave the field. Or something...
I like how a Redditor put it: “Basically siegler crossed home and scored before the 3rd out (at first) was made. Yes, he didn't tag up, but thats only an out if the Jays throw to third. Jays left the field, therefore forfeiting the ability to negate his run.”
Lem, I love that reddit guy you quoted, so I'm going to throw it up here.
"Basically siegler crossed home and scored before the 3rd out (at first) was made. Yes, he didn't tag up, but thats only an out if the Jays throw to third. Jays left the field, therefore forfeiting the ability to negate his run."
Modern business sports are lawyer sports. Argue about obscure rules, nitpick after the fact, and allow appeal after appeal.
The old umps with bad eyes and no video recordings made the game a game.
I think I got it now.
2nd out: the catch
The runner, who did not tag up, ran to home and scored. He didn't tag up because he thought there were two outs.
3rd out: The Blue Jays throw to first and get the third out.
4th out: If the Blue Jays threw to third base, they would have gotten the runner out (the incredible fourth out), because he failed to tag up.
However, the Blue Jays left the field, so they missed their opportunity to get that fourth out.
I think the runner on third (or the third base coach, or both) forgot how many outs there were. They went by the scoreboard. So the runner sprinted home and scored, and did so before the third out at first base. And Toronto left the field, so the run counts, even though it was a screw-up and should not have counted.
Lem beating me by one minute!
Luckily I scored and he's left the field.
(joke)
I am a long time fan who stopped watching the game because of the length and tedious pace. The pitch clock, automatic review of balls and strikes, immediate appeal of close plays have speeded things up significantly, to the point where I even enjoy games when my team isn't playing.
Kudos to MLB for figuring it out.
Of course there will probably be a strike/lockout next season so one step forward, two steps back.
That was so weird! Because the rule exists, I can see it's likely not unprecedented, but I haven't personally seen it before.
Despite recent losses, I'm still pulling for the Red Sox, overall. Picked up that habit in college, and it's stuck.
I've read a couple of descriptions and I think what Saint Croix quoted from the reddit guy gets to the heart of the matter - the Jays screwed up by not throwing to third to establish the force out, and then left the field before they were positive the out they wanted had been called.
boatbuilder said...
I am a long time fan who stopped watching the game because of the length and tedious pace. The pitch clock, automatic review of balls and strikes, immediate appeal of close plays have speeded things up significantly, to the point where I even enjoy games when my team isn't playing.
Kudos to MLB for figuring it out."
I'm with you, but really the pitch clock (and limit of how many times a pitcher can disengage or throw to base) is what has sped up the game. Not reviews of balls and strikes, which is not automatic, but by challenge request as is review of close plays. Those have affected length of play by eliminating arguments by managers and players. But there aren't many of them. And they are quick. I like the extra innings ghost runner too. No one wants 15 inning games.
THese rules are like higher calculus. Only three people understood that ruling, one's dead, one's in an alysum, and the 3rd is in NYC.
So, it was hit into the outfield. And the ball was caught and thrown to first base. The 1st base runner did not tag, so he was out. The batter was out. Obviously. But the man on 3rd got home before the ball was caught.
Okay, that actually made sense.
BTW, I like the little box that shows you where the ball is in the strike zone. IRC, the world series didn't have that and I was disappointed.
I played baseball for decades, and have watched MLB since I was 7. The first-base coach is responsible for telling his runner who reaches first base how many outs there are, and even whether to tag up (depending on how deep the fly ball is and the outfielder's arm strength, which is scouted/known) or stick.
There was a similar play in an MLB game where with a man on first and two outs the batter hit a triple, driving in the runner. However, the runner missed third. The defensive team saw this and were going to appeal the missed bag at third. Before they could do that the batter standing on third raced for home and was intentionally thrown out for the third out. That allowed the run to count, as the inning was over and no appeal was ever tried.
The rule and its application make perfect intuitive sense. The rub is having to listen to the words “After a call to New York.”
I get it. Weird, never seen before but I get it.
…Victor Robles mantis would have been a big help…
This is weirder than the infield fly rule. . . . . .
How did Boston get an infiltrator in control of the score board?
Look. If the players themselves aren't even interested enough to pay attention to the game, how can they ask me to get re-interested in it?
And adding in a 5 minute discussion about "who's on first" doesn't help.
The algorithm is slowly preparing us for Trump's third term.
So Ángel Hernández is now operating MLB scoreboards?
RCOCEAN II: So, it was hit into the outfield. And the ball was caught and thrown to first base. The 1st base runner did not tag, so he was out. The batter was out. Obviously. But the man on 3rd got home before the ball was caught.
Almost. The man on 3rd got home before the out was made on the runner from 1st. Doesn't make any difference as to whether he got home before or after the ball was caught.
If the defense had thrown to 3rd instead of to 1st, they could've gotten the 3rd-base runner out for failing to tag up, and the run would not have counted.
Thanks boatbuilder.
It makes sense now.
I gave up on baseball in the early 70's after being a big Chicago Cubs fan. (I can still call their regular lineup for the 1969 season).
I wonder if baseball has become more interesting. Now that I am retired, there is a gap in sports interest in the summer.
Curious George: Before they could do that the batter standing on third raced for home and was intentionally thrown out for the third out. That allowed the run to count, as the inning was over and no appeal was ever tried.
This only happened because the defensive team left the field too early. MLB does allow for what they call a fourth-out appeal, which would have negated that run, but you have to make the appeal before your players leave the field.
I see some of my comments have already been dealt with. Apologies. :)
A theory - the forced covid jabs gave everyone mass "i don;t give a shit'
helps the chi coms and the communists.
Remember kids- heads up baseball is knowing how many outs there are…
@SeanF So you can plate a run even if you don't tag up as long as you cross home before the defender tags the bag you missed? Is that the rule?
You can't even really get mad at anybody. Who tries for four outs?
BoSox manager: "Okay, in the future, pay attention to how many outs there are. Holy fuck. Run some laps. You too, third base coach. And first base coach. I'm going to run some laps, too. Good job touching home plate on a pop fly third out that wasn't. Okay, we're going to run a lap and then hit the beer keg and celebrate. God loves us."
Toronto manager: "Okay, in the future, when there is some fuck up and nobody knows what is going on, don't leave the field. All right? Just sit your ass down on the pitching mound. Nobody leaves the field! And go for four outs. Go for five outs. Tag everybody. Tag them all. Everybody needs to be tagged out, all right? Holy shit I hate this game."
It's funny that the BoSox thought there were two outs. And there was one out. And then the outfielder caught the ball, which was two outs. And then he threw to first, which was three outs. But they needed to throw it third for four outs.
If you're scoring the out count, that's a two to one to two to three, that needed to go to four.
@SeanF So you can plate a run even if you don't tag up as long as you cross home before the defender tags the bag you missed? Is that the rule?
I'm not SeanF but I'll try to answer.
If they got the third out (the throw to first), before he made it home, then he would not have scored. (I think, don't pay me for this analysis).
But he scored before the third out.
Now, since he failed to tag up, he was vulnerable to an out at third base (the "fourth out"). But Toronto failed to make that out. Instead, they left the field. So the run counted.
When I played, late 70s-early 80s, the catcher was the player who indicated the out status to the infielders, who then related the same to the outfielders. I was a 2nd baseman, so I was responsible to the right fielder. The shortstop to center, the 3rd baseman to the left fielder. The 1st baseman was busy managing calls from the dugout and managing the infield. I would have thought that almost universal. Perhaps not.
"When I played, late 70s-early 80s, the catcher was the player who indicated the out status to the infielders"
Yes, I recall seeing the catcher and other players holding up one finger to indicate one out, two for two outs. I'll have to watch and see if they still do that. You can never rely on the scoreboard.
Runners, fielders, pitchers and even umpires have been forgetting how many outs there are and pitch counts for time immemorial.
"Runners, fielders, pitchers and even umpires have been forgetting how many outs there are and pitch counts for time immemorial."
One ump, one runner, one fielder at a time maybe. An entire field of play, both teams, and all the umpires? Sounds unprecedented to me, but I haven't followed the sport in 30+ years.
So, if I’m scoring this, the third baseman is charged the error for the run that was scored?
I think the Blue Jays knew how many outs there were, but the outfielder just reacted to the Red Sox guys failing to tag up, and threw to first instead of third, not knowing about the "fourth out" rule.
Everybody knows it now.
If the Red Sox did it on purpose, that would be really clever. But it would only work once.
“So, if I’m scoring this, the third baseman is charged the error for the run that was scored?”
In order to be an error, the fielder had to attempt to make the play. In this case, the third baseman was never thrown the ball, attempted to catch the ball, nor field the ball in any other way.
I would score this a fielder’s choice, as the fielder (whoever covered 2nd on the throw from outfield) chose not to make the play at third. The third out should have been the runner at first not tagging back at 2nd before the throw. The runner scored before the third out was made after the fielder’s choice. No error.
Sorry, third out was not tagging back at first.
I don’t understand the fourth out. There was no fourth out that I can see or read. The issue is the “time play” vs the third out “force play” at first. Because an appeal was made at first, that got ruled an “time play” which then prevents the automatic out from the “force play” at first negating the run scored. To me, if that third out at first is a force, then the play at third (or score at home) is irrelevant.
*The old umps with bad eyes and no video recordings made the game a game.*
Don Denkinger has entered the chat ....
*I am a long time fan who stopped watching the game because of the length and tedious pace. *
I was a long-time fan who stopped watching when they shit BLM all over the pitchers' mounds.
I stopped watching when Lester Beckett and Lackey were eating chicken and beer in the clubhouse instead of making the playoffs…
Crack squads on the Jays & Red Sox.
Why the Rays are leading the division,
The Red Sox have lost three in a row. Their luck ran out. As this game shows they have no fucking clue.
“To me, if that third out at first is a force, then the play at third (or score at home) is irrelevant.”
How could the third out be a force at first? All force outs vanished the instant the center fielder caught the ball for the second out.
In some ways, such as speed of play and immediate video appeals of umpire calls, the game has improved. The stadium experience is too much like an NBA game, with digital ads, constant announcements, and noise noise noise. I watch the 10 minute recap.
Thanks Leland. If there’s no error, does that run go against the ERA? I can’t imagine it does. Or not, because of fielder’s choice?
If everyone is paying attention and knows the out count, the Red Sox runners on first and third tag up when the ball is caught. The hit was deep enough into the outfield for the runner on third to run for home and most likely get there before the throw.
So the Red Sox lose an out on their mistake but get to keep the run due to the Blue Jays mistake of not throwing the ball to third. Fair enough.
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