23 ఆగస్టు, 2026

"Chance, fate—these are abstract ideas that usually raise abstract questions. Do people have story-like fates..."

"... or are they just subject to concatenations of occurrences? Do things happen 'for a reason,' or do we just make up stories after the fact to tie events together? Broadly speaking, there’s an ancient antagonism between the notion that life must make sense and the observation that it often doesn’t.... And yet, at times when fate is actually 'happening,' such questions recede. Instead, what stands out are the physical particulars of the here and now. In the hospital, after the accident, you know your life is changing; you sense your proximity to what the novelist Karl Ove Knausgaard calls 'the deep, slow-shifting layers of reality where fate is at work.' Somehow this abstract understanding exists alongside, or by means of, the objects in the waiting room—a paper cup from the water cooler, or a copy of People magazine."

Writes Joshua Rothman, in "Should You Believe in Fate? We’d be happier, perhaps, if we found meaning not through abstractions but through the physical things around us" (The New Yorker).
వీరిచే పోస్ట్ చేయబడింది Ann Althouse వద్ద 12:14 PM
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24 కామెంట్‌లు:

Original Mike చెప్పారు...

"Do things happen 'for a reason,' or do we just make up stories after the fact to tie events together?"

The latter.

23-08-26 12:20 PM
Jamie చెప్పారు...

"Do things happen 'for a reason,' or do we just make up stories after the fact to tie events together?"

This feels like a false dichotomy to me. It seems to me that things can happen randomly, but one's outlook can allow one to perceive, or maybe the better word is "construct," threads of meaning. I don't think, for example, that I have to believe that God willed my car accident in order for me to learn patience and perseverance from my rehab in its aftermath, and to take those lessons with me and apply them elsewhere. And I can view the course of my life as including - even if not "consisting of" - many such opportunities to learn something and continue to change (one hopes, to improve) my outlook, toward greater happiness and peace of mind.

I can also view my life as a meaningless slog through time with no point at all. Why I would choose to do that, I don't know, but it sure seems as if some people do make that choice.

23-08-26 12:44 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent చెప్పారు...

Meh. The “reason” is that the present is always the sum of the past, including the water cooler and the People magazine. Fifth-grade level navel-gazing. Which was also predestined.

23-08-26 12:48 PM
Original Mike చెప్పారు...

The fact that things do not happen for some external 'reason' does not mean we can't learn from them. Far from it.

23-08-26 12:48 PM
n.n చెప్పారు...

Fate has a physical analogy in inertia and momentum.

23-08-26 12:49 PM
n.n చెప్పారు...

Anthropogenic Intelligence is capable of independent forcing.

23-08-26 12:50 PM
Jamie చెప్పారు...

OG Mike @12:48 - exactly; I was trying to point out that the choice between "everything happens for a reason" and "we're just telling ourselves fake stories" is incomplete. There's room for learning and the benefits of learning for both atheists such as yourself and those who believe, as I do, that there is a creator who remains interested in creation. It's nihilists that I don't understand.

23-08-26 1:19 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...

Why are people paying to read the New Yorker when there are far more intelligent philosophers who treated this subject to much better discussions?

The people that read The New Yorker are looking for less rigorous thought experiments it seems.

23-08-26 1:47 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...

The negative correlation between IQ and happiness is a well trod path.

This "author" seems to have relied on a particularly jovial LLM to write this.

"Fate" is just a catchall for admitting you don't understand and/or there are too many things to keep track of.

I am almost curious enough to click through to see if they mentioned the Stoics at all.

23-08-26 1:54 PM
Known Unknown చెప్పారు...

This is just more post-modernism undermining faith.

23-08-26 1:54 PM
paminwi చెప్పారు...

Known Unknown: I agree completely.

23-08-26 2:18 PM
Lazarus చెప్పారు...

Fate is what we see when we fictionalize our lives. Is it really there without that?

23-08-26 2:19 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit చెప్పారు...

“We think that the point is to pass the test or overcome the problem, but the truth is that things don't really get solved. They come together and they fall apart. Then they come together again and fall apart again.” — Pema Chödrön

23-08-26 2:24 PM
Quaestor చెప్పారు...

Perhaps there are no individual fates. However, if physics is complete, then the fate of the cosmos is already decided. It will either continue to expand at an ever increasing rate until it dies by uniform entropy, the so-called heat death of the universe. Or else, it will collapse back into its pre-inflationary state, lifeless and undifferentiated. So the Norns and the Moirai can continue their spinning and weaving as long as we find them interesting

23-08-26 2:42 PM
Original Mike చెప్పారు...

"However, if physics is complete, then the fate of the cosmos is already decided."

Contemporary physics actually "believes" that there is no such thing as free will. The future is completely preordained by the past. This is based on the argument that the kinetics of elementary particles is time invariant. Personally, I don't accept extrapolating conclusions from elementary particles as far afield as human events.

23-08-26 2:59 PM
Original Mike చెప్పారు...

I do believe the fate of the cosmos (recollapse, heat death, big rip) is already decided.

23-08-26 3:01 PM
Eric the Fruit Bat చెప్పారు...
ఈ కామెంట్‌ను రచయిత తీసివేశారు.
23-08-26 4:21 PM
Eric the Fruit Bat చెప్పారు...

Look people, there's no need to overthink this. Don't kill anyone old enough to be your father and don't marry anyone old enough to be your mother and you've pretty much got it covered.

23-08-26 4:23 PM
Ampersand చెప్పారు...

Putting to one side the debates about determinism and free will, perhaps we should consider which side of the argument would be destructive of civilization. Imagine a world in which 100% of the population believed that free choice was illusory. We would no longer punish criminals because they "deserve" it. Vengeance, moral blameworthiness, and retribution would vanish. Prisons would either transform into containment facilities or death houses. Society would view a violent criminal the exact same way it views a faulty piece of machinery or a carrier of a highly contagious disease. Perpetrators would be contained (or destroyed) to protect the public, rather than subjected to punitive suffering. If behavior is 100% predictable and determined, the state would likely shift immense resources toward identifying and intervening in a person's life before a crime is committed, raising massive civil liberties concerns.The elimination of free will belief will result in a dramatic change in behavior. There would be massive increases in apathy, cheating and aggression, and a corresponding decline in altruism and gratitude. What would be the point of prudence or self control? Why would we admire economic success, or truth, or beauty?

Determinism (like communism, by the way) is a luxury belief that we can't afford.

23-08-26 4:30 PM
Lee Moore చెప్పారు...

I disagree with Ampersand's logic. If everything is preordained then our opinions about predestination will not be affected by our beliefs, for those opinions are preordained too. If everything is not preordained but everyone believes that it is, then everyone will believe that punishing criminals may be unfair but the unfairness would be preordained, so there's nothing "wrong" with punishing criminals. My own opinion is that I do not know whether everything is preordained or not and so I act as if it is not. If it is not then I am properly taking moral responsibility for my own actions, and holding others responsible for theirs. But if it is all preordained then I am preordained to erroneously attribute responsibility when I should not. But since that's preordained, so what ?

23-08-26 4:47 PM
MikeD చెప్పారు...

Lee Moore - absolutely on point and correct. BTW, the true chasm between Islam and Western Civilization is one is preordained and the other, Christian or not, believes in free will.

23-08-26 5:28 PM
J L Oliver చెప్పారు...

Redemption redeems the dichotomy. Stuff happens but we can see redemption of the event through reframing it. Example: my mom committed suicide when I was young, leaving ashes, but from the ashes came my drive to help others from that fate (decision). Redeemed.

23-08-26 5:28 PM
Lucien చెప్పారు...

What absolute tripe. I say we rely on “indigenous ways of knowing” instead.

23-08-26 5:58 PM
john mosby చెప్పారు...

Miked: “ the true chasm between Islam and Western Civilization is one is preordained and the other, Christian or not, believes in free will.”

Mmm, a bit more complex. For instance Calvinists who believe in predestination, but who also believe material success in this world is a sign that you are predestined for salvation, giving rise to the Protestant work ethic. CC, JSM

23-08-26 6:19 PM

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