What was the Times Square sculpture that "sparked a furor"? It was a similar anonymous generic black woman. According to the artist, "the messages I would get from women who look like her [were] saying she was disgusting." He said: "A lot of people, they’re not used to seeing people who look like them. And I mean that not just in terms of race or gender, but people just being people."
I wonder if most people, confronted with a colossal sculpture of a person who looked exactly like them — other than the size and the monotone color of bronze — would find it disgusting. But those 2 changes — size and bronzeness — are what we usually think makes a statue "heroic."
Or perhaps the "heroic" quality requires something more: a proud pose, idealized beauty, nudity (or a military uniform, a toga, or at least a business suit), some connection to glorious achievement (certainly not just standing around casually). But when's the last time elite art came out in favor of the heroic? That's so right wing. Like something Trump would do. Or try to do.
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59 comments:
How do they know it's a black person?
in a twist reminiscent of Bernini’s 'David,'
...the moment I realized the "art" would be a mediocre nothing.
It's actually not terrible. As an installation art piece, it's fine, but I can't really appreciate it under the weight of the critic/promoter's hagiography.
I guess tilting her head to the right prevents it from being depicted as some kind of racist stereotype.
Wonder what kind of tourist photos it will produce.
Now, a surprising story. I was diagnosed with bladder cancer in December, and had tumor removal surgery soon thereafter. (Numerous CT, PET and MRI scans have shown no metastatis, so the cancer is localized and can be cured.) My radiation oncologist is a black woman. With huge braids (not dreads). And, I like her and she’s competent. Most of the radiation reatment is now handled by AI. My medical oncologist is Pakistani.
Andy Warhol would be proud.
The culture war is between merit and meritless.
Christiano Ronaldo certainly was disgusted by his: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/29/sports/soccer/cristiano-ronaldo-bust-looks-nothing-like-him-real-madrid.html
Other than that, I've never gotten the sense that "A lot of people, they’re not used to seeing people who look like the"
He seems kinda dumb. I didn't look. Do the statues suck?
There are Indians who are blacker than black. And what of the historically discriminated minority albinos? The integrated rainbows of humanity.
S. Thomas, sincerest hopes for a full and speedy recovery!
If I saw a giant sculpture honoring my commonness, I would be embarrassed, not honored. What is wrong with me, born in the wrong century? The Romans wouldn't do this until at least 400AD.
The Gran Caffe Lavena on St. Marks Square in Venice is famous for having a giant chandelier with the heads of black women (to include notable red lips) under every light.
It's polarizing and results in hostile political reviews, plus the apparent censorship of any page that shows photos of the chandelier. I'd post a link, but keep hitting "unsafe page" blockages!
In a logical world, this giant bronze statue of a chubby, average black women checking her phone might be considered derogatory or insulting. But woke. But corporate and government art justifies whatever it justifies. But people forget why they hate what they hate.
I am reminded of Heinlein's soliloquy in Stranger In A Strange Land about the genius of Rodin. Let me recreate the quote, which has to do with She Who Used To Be the Beautiful Heaulmiére:
(Along these lines.) Any artist can see a young girl and portray her as she is. [I would add that this is no longer a foregone conclusion.] A good artist can see an old woman and portray her as the girl she used to be. A great artist can see an old woman, portray her exactly as she is, and force the viewer to see the the beautiful young girl she was. No woman ever grew older than seventeen in her heart; a master can make you feel that tragedy.
Back to me, with apologies for the extensive misquoting: I actually never liked that particular sculpture, and it doesn't make me feel the tragedy of a beautiful young girl grown old - though it does make me feel the physical tragedy (if it is - I'm not there yet) of great age. But I do love Rodin.
This work under discussion doesn't make me feel anything, which puts it on par with a lot of today's art. It's well rendered, but it doesn't move me and the artist's message is lost on me, except a guess that it's something like, "Here's a representation of someone who hasn't been much represented in the western canon." So [shrug] okay, I don't object, but I wish artists still wanted to evoke great truths (and, if they achieve an honor like this important a display, had the chops to do so).
Isn't this just the 'next one' in a series of over-sized sculptures of modern overweight black women? Why are they popping up in so many places, doesn't the Netherlands have one too? What's the deal? Is there supposed to be some special meaning that's being evoked, some keen slice of humanity that's been underserved somehow? Let's open the books.
BronzeCommHub knows.......
Victoria And Albert's museum. In case you didn't know what the "V&A" was.
She looks like she’s lost. Her phone told her she’s at the local Mickey D’s but she’s at this damn V&A instead. I like it.
Why not a huge statue of a white cockney eating some fish and chips?
Meanwhile, down in Texas, the NYT complains
about a Texas Ranger statute
standing in front
of Texas Ranger stadium
The statue of the woman is horrible. But according to AI it "challenges traditional power dynamics in sculpture". Which is code words for "supports the views of the rich and powerful who rule Britain and hate the native white population."
What's needed in Democrat run cities is a giant statue of one of those sad Fentanyl addicts that stand there bent over like, ... well, like a statue. Keeping those people in that condition is a major source of grift income and should be honored.
Humans throughout history have tried to immortalize the heroes of their cultures and times. Way back to the cave wall drawings of Onk taking on a giant boar. The greatest artists of any civilization have immortalized the great moments or great people in their history.
But not us. Not in this day and age of Western Culture hating itself so much it prefers to lower its standards until there are none.
Now we simply decide which skin color is to be raised up, which is to be ignored. Heroes are made not by deed, but by being born with a physical attribute, or lack of one.
No penis? A plus. Black skin? A huge plus. No penis AND black skin? Hero.
Remember, Barack Obama got a Nobel Prize just for showing up black.
I'm not racist and I don't resent black people at all. In fact, some of my best friends are...well...you know. That said, I resent how they are used. I would think black people look at this as patronizing bullshit. Coinciding with that most bullshit qualifier in common talk today: "As a black woman, I....".
No one else in the world has to qualify their body parts or skin color as something that gives them special insight that no other human could possibly have. We all have that. We're all individuals. We all have our own special insights. They come with living a life and do not require statues to be put up alongside Horatio Nelson.
If Republicans behaved like Democrats
we would say that their bad art terrifies us
upsets us
victimizes us
and we cannot go about our day unless it is removed
and we would sue
claiming some damn thing
"how dare you remodel the Lincoln bedroom"
and the judge would issue insane orders
and our media, that we own, would publish 1000 articles about how right we are, and how evil the other side is
articles that nobody reads
not even our side
and our media would call the president Stalin all the time, and we'd say his bad art is Communism, and spending money for anything is Communism, and taxing us is Communism, and criticizing us is Communism, and all of this insane rhetoric would be repeated, non-stop, in our media, until nobody reads our media, including us
"statue" not "statute"
grrrrr
that one gets me a lot
Stop trying to make this a racial thing — it’s 2026, not 1966. A year ago as it happened I saw a similar statue (a 13-foot black women in bronze looking at her phone) by the same artist while visiting Florence's Piazza della Signoria. I took it to be a commentary on living life through mediated social-media content rather than seeing and experiencing it immediately and directly, the way people on that square had for a thousand years. A racial angle simply did not occur to me or anyone else. There is a tiny percentage of people left and right who want to make race their grift. Ignore them.
Aren't her cuffs a bit high? And those shoes!
@EarnestProle, that's bullsh*t and you know it. Read the article. I would say exactly the same thing if it was some other unremarkable pedestrian feature of modern society, like a series of punk skateboarders or something. It's not race grift, it's wondering why this subject is being captured and amplified in giant style. What for? Why the fuss?
Your response is a typical Progressive one: You're not in our tribe so you're not allowed to speak or make mention of our sacred things. Be Silent ! You cannot comprehend our majesty. That's how it comes across.
One might just as easily point out that the insistence of using this recurring theme in public places is a race grift all by itself. Nobody here did that.
EarnestProle, that's bullsh*t and you know it. Read the article.
I’ve been watching the New York Times manufacture racial “controversy” for something like forty years — sorry you got played by them.
In Chicago several years ago they had a huge statue of. Marylin Monroe and you could look up and see her panties, everyone looked. I thought that was pretty good but they took it away eventually. I thought it was better than the Calder.
The last thing I would want is my mom pooch and the wrinkles in my jeans over it to be memorialized in bronze. Hideous. I actually think the artist hates black women.
There is a tiny percentage of people left and right who want to make race their grift.
Tiny percentage?!
In real life, that is very true
But in politics, the racial grift is huge. And it's askew which party relies on a racial grift. It's the Democrat party. They demonized black people for decades and decades. And now they terrorize young liberal girls with the awful White Man.
DEI is all racial grift. Don't minimize that shit.
Yeah, you're sorry all right, but asking an honest question isn't 'getting played'. You need to go back to troll school and try to work past 'annoying gnome'.
In Chicago several years ago they had a huge statue of. Marylin Monroe and you could look up and see her panties, everyone looked. I thought that was pretty good but they took it away eventually. I thought it was better than the Calder.
Just like Seven Year Itch
(If the artist really wanted to be controversial, he would have skipped the panties and you could peek up and see her lady parts)
I've been watching the uglification of my nearest city (Richmond, VA) for the past ten years or so. I know you heard of the removal of the RACIST Confederate statues that used to elegantly decorate one of the major avenues there.
The city's administration, in their wisdom, has also commissioned the creation of many murals on the sides of buildings, throughout. A few are pretty, and not displeasing to the eye, but many are objectively ugly, depicting near violent clashes of color and revolting depictions of people or monsters.
I see these bronze statues as evidence of the same sort of art depreciation. Sort of like that MLK thing in Boston.
“She holds a phone in one hand as she turns, in a twist reminiscent of Bernini’s 'David,' to look over her right shoulder with an intent gaze.”
Hee. Yep, Bernini’s ‘David’ is the first thing I thought of.
I can see why the Left puts up these sorts of ugly political statues and art. It must be fun to do it, and see all dumbos and Rightwingers either revel themselves to be philistines aka "Who cares about art?" or ineffectual clowns "Did you see that, wow just wow".
Throw in race, and get even more hilarious as the Conservatives Dumbos tie themselves into knots trying to express how they dislike the ugly art while making sure everyone knows there not one of them thar racists.
I looked up echt Conservative Rod Dreher's take on this sort of thing, and course its an ineffectual "Wow, just wow". Sometimes combined with a sad "This is how far we've fallen". Oh well, back to the Oysters and white Wine.
Sorta off topic but I just noticed one of those weird LOL-cow tweets Rod puts up. He's Tweets a link to some obscure Jim Nabor TV show from the 70s and writes "This aired when we were a proper country".
How conservative. both in phrasing and absurdity.
Shouting Thomas said...
"Now, a surprising story. I was diagnosed with bladder cancer in December, and had tumor removal surgery soon thereafter. (Numerous CT, PET and MRI scans have shown no metastatis, so the cancer is localized and can be cured.)"
ST, my father had successful experimental bladder cancer treatment while in his late 80s. I hope yours doesn't return, but if it does, ask about the new treatment involving implanting live tuberculosis bacteria in the bladder. It worked!
@Shouting Thomas, sorry to hear this news, but glad that it seems to be an optimistic diagnosis. I hope your recovery is swift and uneventful. Get Well Soon.
I vote to tear it down.
The braids are probably from the head of a Vietnamese woman. Cultural appropriation!
We know who their monarchs and saints are now. The last shall be first.
"A lot of people, they’re not used to seeing people who look like them"
I assume he means we aren't used to statues showing overweight women, over-thirty, in ill-fitting clothes and their faces are plain and they are thirty feet high. And I'm not used to that nor do I wish to become accustomed to it. What I say is, put that sort of sculpture where the people who actually live there want it. If no one wants it, put it in the sculptor's front yard. Or the dump.
How much did Nike pay the artist for the product placement?
I can see why the Left puts up these sorts of ugly political statues and art.
I thought it was, what, part of Marx and later Gramsci? "Devalue bourgeois art because it's classist" is the public statement, but the quiet intent is to degrade everyone's idea of ideals. If you don't have, or honor, ideals, you might not notice that your society is crap now. Soviet art has a following now, but how much of that is because of the continuing degradation of art since the early 20th century? Picasso could actually paint - he chose to go off in his new direction (of which I'm not a fan, but at least he learned his craft before he tried to burn it down). Soviet art, we can now perceive, has a certain heroic character, but back in the days when ordinary people had been raised on masterpieces, what did they think of it? It looks as if you could do it with a ruler and magic markers. Our perceptions are different from those ordinary people of yore because the "masterpieces" we were raised on include four and half minutes of a person sitting silently at a piano and a banana taped to a wall.
It has been a long time since public art was intended to inspire.
Ugh. There is also the problem with scale. The V & A sits close to the Brompton Road. Me wife and I usually stay at The Rembrandt across the street when we go to London. We were both employed in Anglo-American history before retiring, and the hotel was nice and convenient. This statue will be a hindrance to all passersby. There are other museums that would suit better.
Socialist realism ugh
I hope that the model doesn't consider herself a "generic black woman."
I have yet to encounter a generic person of any race. But for the left, you are who they decide you look like.
Critical Bloc... Block... Black Theory
A black rock is Diversitist, specifically racist, and with visible gender (i.e. sex-correlatedattributes), likely sexist, perhaps even transphobic.
Hey Thomas--Keep shouting!
I suppose the idea behind it is that the ordinary Black woman ought to be celebrated as heroic -- or set in opposition to the people who are usually celebrated. Fine, but the execution doesn't seem very imaginative.
We now know that Greek statues (even bronzes according to AI) were painted in gaudy colors. Why didn't modern sculptors follow up on that? Why not see her in living color? Hyperrealist sculptor Duane Hanson would have done a good job -- so good a job that the sculpture would probably be banned.
My comment at 1:32 was a reference to the story that when JFK put his hand on Marilyn's leg under a table, he was surprised to discover that she wasn't wearing panties.
Maybe a myth, I don't know, I read it somewhere.
That seems plausible
https://heretical.com/miscella/rcnoa.html
Find the woman who most resembles that statue, and she will tell you that her thighs aren't that big.
Public/political art is just.................................sad.
In my little village the city put up a statue in bronze of a naked man with a hammer a chisel sculpting himself out of, I suppose, a block of stone. I was impressed for awhile until I found that this sculpture was of a type. You can order it in various sizes and details. There are dozens of them. Maybe hundreds. It would have been better if water was jetting out the top of his head.
The "Bean" in Grant Park is an annoyance. Especially in bright sunlight. I admire the welding and finishing. I also admire the acumen of whoever sold it to the city.
I don't know. The phone seems kind of demeaning. Normally, the person would be depicted with something that represented her triumph or achievement or status. But I have low expectations of public art.
In the 1970s a legal requirement to have publicly funded art at public institutions resulted in the sale to the University of North Carolina at Charlotte of a few welded and riveted and painted I-beams for a lovely sum over $300k. I, for one, admire pure hucksters succeeding in the face of reality. This at least is an appealing statue, albeit empty of intentional meaning. Well played, artist huckster!
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