"I do not think they would have wanted to see their son castigated as he has been.... Even in conversation with me, a person they had dined with only a few times, Rob and Michele Reiner recognized the depth of their son’s suffering as a call for their own compassion, and they recognized that Nick’s behavior was often outside his control.... The law proposes that he either knew, or could not know, right from wrong. But psychotic logic does not translate this way.... [H]is crime is itself his punishment; the horror of awakening to one’s own psychotic acts exceeds any third-party punishment. Under the Trump administration, aggressive 'justice' and judgmental positions that ignore scientific expertise are in fashion.... His case will be heard in California, where, one can hope, understanding of human suffering can still sometimes outstrip rageful cruelty. Nick Reiner’s parents were not vengeful people; no one need be vengeful on their behalf."
Writes Andrew Solomon, a professor of medical clinical psychology, in "My Hope for Nick Reiner" (NYT).
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71 కామెంట్లు:
Crime and viscous rape and murder= the left's universal bottomless compassion.
Incarceration is not just about punishment, it is about protecting the public. Sorry, but this man should not be on the streets.
No need for vengeance or hate, just see to it that he never is released into society. I very much doubt that can be managed though.
"His case will be heard in California, where, one can hope, understanding of human suffering can still sometimes outstrip rageful cruelty."
Well at least he made sure "California", "suffering" and "cruelty" are in the same sentence, as God intended.
Under the Trump administration, aggressive 'justice' and judgmental positions that ignore scientific expertise are in fashion....
WTF? Is it possible for these deranged people to imagine that there are matters which HAVE NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH DONALD TRUMP?
Maybe if he wants to make the laws, Mr. Solomon should pick an office and stand for election.
Nick is a danger. We lock up dangerous people. Maybe someday there will be a cure. But there isn’t. Progressives are always Empathetic to killers but not their victims nor to the others in society. Like the judges who let dangerous people out on bail only to see them murder someone.
The fucking Vanity of these people
He will ask mercy from the court on the grounds that he is now an orphan.
Oh ffs I don't care what Rob and Michelle would think. This is a crime against society, and the stones cry out etc.
And does he actually assume that Nick feels guilty? Does the professor just project his own sense of decency on to this demon spawn?
A non-judgemental approach is to say "To his horror, he can't control his actions. His family understood." To his horror, they're now dead. And we should understand that he will be horrified if he kills one of us. But we should not be horrified. Only he can be horrified. We can only be understanding. Or, of course, dead. but in that case, hopefully our relatives will be understanding, not horrorified.
Progressive psychological gibberish: Tolerate the intolerable. Imagine a world in which the only accountability is internal. “Oooh. I feel terrible about that! Let’s do it again.”
I am an emotional softie with respect to individuals. So, what do I think about the Reiner case? I think the kid should be locked up for the rest of his life. He killed his father and his mother (who would have moved mountains to heal him) in a most gruesome and intimate way. Some acts forfeit the right to live in civilized society.
Nick is also an orphan now. Did we mention that? Have some compassion.
This thinking is exactly what cost the Reiner's everything.
It may be unfair to expect parents to be able to overcome their familial love and bias, but it should not be part of the law. What's most cruel is subjecting innocents to extreme danger when you don't have too. It's not compassionate. The objective is balancing rights, but if you are proven to be a deadly menace, your side of the scale gets a lot lighter.
“I imagine that …”
Everything after that is raw bull shit, and this is true no matter what the article goes on to discuss.
It sounds like she's trying to say the Reiners would do nothing different even if they knew he was going to kill them. I doubt that.
So is Andrew Solomon suggesting that the court release Nick Reiner into his care, in his house, for the rest of Nick's life? Or is he suggesting that Nick be released into society so he can go off the deep end a few more times and kill more people? Letting folks with sever mental issues roam about in public is not 'compassion'. It is cruel all up. Nick needs to be in a proper medical facility that can deal with his mental issues.
A particularly nasty method of execution in China was 凌遲 - "Slow-Slicing" (aka "death by a thousand cuts"). It was reserved for particularly heinous crimes, one of which was and most often reserved for the murder of one's parents.
In comparison a life-sentence for Nick is practically the Badrutt Hotel.
I dont know about anyone else, but if i get murdered I hope the judge doesn't say "well, lets not punish Rc's killer, he's suffered enough".
Arent' there two brothers in prison for killing their parents? Mendendez? Maybe they've suffered enough and should be let out.
What chutspah. It reminds me of when Sirhan Sirhan wrote to the court saying that if Robert F. Kennedy, the man Sirhan murdered btw, were alive today he'd want him paroled and released. Sheesh. California is another country at this point.
There's always a question as to how much "Crazy" people know right from wrong. I think society has gone way overboard in letting people off the hook for their crimes. The best example was John Hinckley, who should've been tossed in prison for life. Instead he was found "not guilty by reason of insanity". Of course, the DC jury probably wanted to let him go, afterall it was a Republican that got shot, but had to go with insanity.
Can't anyone find compassion for this poor orphan in Trump's America?-
Parole his mind, death penalty for the body. His body committed the crime.
If, the Spartan said.
Fine, President Trump should give Nick Reiner a total pardon, even for state crimes. Wouldn't that be what his parents would want?
Just keep him out of my breakfast nook, mkay?
I imagine that had they survived their son’s vicious knife attack in their home in the dead of night, Rob and Michele would want their beloved son Nick locked up forever far far way from them.
Sure. Release the MFer on some kind supervised release with the provision that young Mr. Reiner must not not leave LA county. See how that goes.
If you lock up the criminally insane forever for their own protection, they’ll never have to awaken with their parents’ blood on their hands.
Suicidal empathy is real.
Leora said...
"Suicidal empathy is real."
So is homocidal empathy.
What Nick did wasn't so bad, in California sentencing terms. After all, the man who raped a girl, hacked off her arms, and dumped her in a ditch, was only sentenced to 14 years, and was paroled after about half of that. (Singleton)
It's not possible to institutionalize a mentally-ill violent relative; the family must wait for the extremely violent episode to happen so that the mentally-ill family member can be arrested, jailed, and hopefully kept in a lock-down hospital prison ward. That's the sad truth here. The coursts allow violent mentally-ill people to wander the streets, attacking strangers and family alike, occasional lock-up in local jail, maybe a short prison stint, but no real effort towards ensuring safety of strangers and family alike.
The Reiners probably knew a violent attack was likely, hoped it could be contained with no serious injuries and without media scrutiny. Not unlikely some prior violent episodes in their home may in fact have already occurred. They had a daughter to keep safe. They had social expectations to maintain, personal reputations to keep protected too.
It brought this old joke to mind:
Comedienne Paula Poundstone said this of Sirhan Sirhan back in the 80’s on SNL:
“Sirhan Sirhan, the guy who shot Robert Kennedy was actually up for parole again this year. Not only that, he told the parole board he thought if Kennedy were alive today, he would speak in his favor and say”Let the guy go.” What a tough break, huh? The one guy who woulda supported this guy — and he shot him!”
I have heard some rubbish statements from psychologists before, but never anything quite so offensively stupid and untruthful, Psychotics DON'T awaken to the horror of their acts -- that's what defines them as psychotics. Otherwise a psychotic, having killed, would never kill again, never commit another act of violence. Decent people may react that way to their own criminal behaviors, but psychotics are in fact incapable of that sort of emotional response. Because they're, you know, psychotics.
Fund a billboard campaign - How to Detect Antisocial Personality Disorder - with Nick's mug on it, and have Willie Nelson sponsor a Pathology-Aid concert to fund victim education and treatment.
Ordinary people are impacted by dangerous and severe disorders of these deranged anti-humans everyday, from work to family life. The cost to society (legal, medical, mental health, victim services/law enforcement, social services) is staggering.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
judgmental positions that ignore scientific expertise
Scientific expertise should inform policy but it should not dictate policy. There are no values experts, there are only individuals with values.
"His case will be heard in California, where, one can hope, understanding of human suffering can still sometimes outstrip rageful cruelty."
So, the doctors argument that the court should show mercy because Nick is an orphan?
“Honey, I admit that I ate the last of your favorite ice cream, but the horror of awakening to my psychotic act exceeds any punishment you are thinking of. So, let’s kiss and make up, OK?”
From what I can tell, this man never worked with any of the Reiners in a medical capacity. He knew the parents socially, and you know that social acquaintances are the hardest to fool. (/s) Most everyone could maintain some sort of "what we want others to think of us" performance through a few dinners.
Perhaps it was authentic, perhaps not. He has no way of knowing.
His idea of what Nick thinks/feels seems to be based on his own medically induced psychosis as if every psychotic event is the same as every other one and one caused by something external is just the same as one caused by your own brain.
I see there's also a NYT article about Reiner pleading not guilty. I'm surprised he has a public defender. The attorney that was hired originally removed himself from the case and they assigned a public defender.
"..."I do not think they would have wanted to see their son castigated as he has been......."
Archie Bunker, in his chair with a disgusted look on his face: "That figures."
Thats a lot of chutzpah
His case will be heard in California, where, one can hope, understanding of human suffering can still sometimes outstrip rageful cruelty.
Well, the murder happened in California, where rage and cruelty outstripped understanding of humanity. I’m not sure where the hope for California comes. Drugs?
The original attorney, Alan Jackson, known for represented Weinstein and Spacey, said he believed Reiner was innocent. He withdrew due to undisclosed "circumstances beyond control" and financial issues.
mccullough said...
Nick is a danger. We lock up dangerous people. Maybe someday there will be a cure. But there isn’t. Progressives are always Empathetic to killers but not their victims nor to the others in society.
The left isn’t just empathetic to killers.
They are sympathetic to killers.
Just watch them post here. They are inherently violent people who have not developed rules based morality.
They are stuck on how things make them feel.
No a brutal murder demands a harsh punishment
Nick was the first person to have see his parents murdered. Their skin slashed open, their blood spilled, the rooms a mess. Can you imagine the trauma of just that image might cause a person? And you want to punish him more? Do you understand, Nick was not just in the same room with his dead parents. Nick was in the same room with the murderer! The same body!
Like steve martin in all of me
[Nick Reiner’s] case will be heard in California, where, one can hope, understanding of human suffering can still sometimes outstrip rageful cruelty. Nick Reiner’s parents were not vengeful people; no one need be vengeful on their behalf.
What does vengeance have to do with it? Nick Reiner proved himself to be a dangerous individual, and society has an interest in protecting itself and its members from dangerous individuals. Otherwise why even have a society?
The main reason the US has such a large intractable homeless problem is that during the compassionate Carter era, all the horrible state mental hospitals were closed under the theory that somehow community mental health care, whatever the hell that was, combined with the naive faith that the mentally ill could be trusted to take their meds, take care of themselves, find affordable housing and food, and not be preyed upon by the dregs of society, or be a danger to themselves or others, would make everything better for the mentally ill and society as a whole. Nationwide empathetic suicide/homicide.
Under the Trump administration, aggressive 'justice' and judgmental positions that ignore scientific expertise are in fashion.... [my emphasis]
Glenn Reynolds calls it “the suicide of expertise.” How many times do we have to learn that people like Michael Mann were engaging in junk science to impoverish the middle and working classes before we start wondering who else has been abusing us in the name of “scientific expertise” so as to separate us from our earnings in order to enrich the already wealthy? Collins, Fauci, and Birx deliberately suppressed scientific truth in order to damage the American economy so as to get Trump out of office. How many Americans did their policies kill? How many businesses were destroyed? Junk prople pushing junk science while hiding
We now know that Al Gore and Michael Mann were wrong and Judith Curry is right. Jay Battacharya was right, not Anthony Fauci or Deborah Birx. Curry and Battacharya have at least been able to get their reputations back; the petty and vindictive Stanford faculty censure against Scott Atlas for being right about lockdowns has never been rescinded. We now know that Robert Malone wss right to urge caution on mRNA vaccines, while the “scientific experts” of the Biden administration were wrong.
How much of this junk science crap so eagerly pushed by the American scientific establishment did they think would be tolerated before we tell all of them to eff off and where to shove their “expertise”?
In order to have a free high trust society you have to kill or imprison 1-2% of the population.
wild chicken said...
"And does he actually assume that Nick feels guilty?"
If so, how does he explain the plea of innocent?
Nick Reiner should be housed in Andrew Solomon‘s residence until trial so Nick will receive the hospitality he and the Professor deserve.
Surprised they're not just blaming psych med / rec drug as they usually do. Sorry, people are responsible for their own behavior and for the benefit of the others must be punished as such.
Well, it's not like he has other parents to kill out there somewhere.
And don't we all get one "Get Out of Jail Free" card?
"White privilege" and all that.
Surprised they're not just blaming psych med / rec drug as they usually do.
Saving it for the trial? There was a little bit right after the murders, when someone claimed his medication had been changed recently. If true, it had to originate with his siblings or previous lawyer.
Did Solomon plug psychedelics? Those should always be part of the Tolerance & Compassion viewpoint. Salvation drugs.
A "professor of medical clinical psychology" is as useful as a chiropractic electrician.
Does the "One free bite" rule apply to psychotics?
Is it possible for these deranged people to imagine that there are matters which HAVE NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH DONALD TRUMP?
No. And we see it in the comments here every day.
The highlighted quote reminds me of A Christmas Story when Ralphie and Schwartz are avoiding getting in trouble for getting Flick to stick his tongue to the flagpole and the teacher is saying that “the person who did this knows his guilt. It is a far worse punishment than anything I could assign”, or words to that effect. To which Ralphie responds “Adults loved saying stuff like that but we kids always knew it was better not to get caught”. Dude in the article sounds like Ms. Shields.
The left just can't help but fall for those lovable mentally-ill depraved fuck-ups, can they?
Relatively normal people are disposable. But you, murderer, rapist, victim of a tough upbringing? You're special.
Despite his name, I'm not sure the term Solomonic applies to this fucking guy.
Andrew Solomon : Solomonic :: Jimmy Carter : Cartesian
I can never understand people like this. This case must be disposed of by the authorities in the best interests of the people. Given that there is no cure for this sort of insanity the criminal should, obviously, be shut up away from the population. There are a lot of similar problems to deal with in CA, so it should be done with speed and efficiency. Done, and done, next case.
What does he want other than this? That the lawyers and judges feel bad about it? That they slit their bellies in grief at the grief of all concerned?
Then, perhaps, Dr Solomon. You can do his time with him.
On behalf of the two murdered people, I for one suggest the death penalty.
While I truly believe he is ill, that doesn't mean he escapes justice or for us to protect society from him. Compassion would have had him hospitalized in a secure facility, BEFORE he murdered 2 people. He is a danger to himself and others. He needs a secure facility and to never be released. If that is more of a hospital/mental institution, that is fine.
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