"Yes, the country needs more children. But it matters how and to whom children are born. Society depends on men and women who want to form families, that is, who freely want to marry, and then freely bear and nurture children."
Said a report from the Heritage Foundation called "Saving America by Saving the Family," quoted in "Heritage paper on families calls for ‘marriage bootcamp,’ more babies/The conservative think tank aims to boost U.S. marriage and birth rates through recommendations to discourage online dating, restrict pornography, create tax credits for bigger families and more" (WaPo).
From the article: "A previous draft obtained by The Post, dated in October, also included an appendix of ideas that Heritage did not endorse but said were offered ‘in the spirit of furthering debate and innovative thinking on family policy.'... Some of the excluded ideas included studying 'child-proxy voting,' where parents could cast an extra half-vote on behalf of each of their children; dramatically increasing the cost of divorce proceedings while making marriage licenses free; legally punishing adultery and 'homewrecker[s]'; banning pornography; and making Election Day a half-day or holiday to promote family-based civic activity.... The appendix also floated '15-minute communities,' or developments that cluster schools, parks and employment centers in walkable or short driving distances. The idea has historically drawn support from Democrats in favor of stricter zoning regulations. And it considered prohibiting home sellers from off-loading starter homes until they’ve received a legitimate offer from a married couple with children, and encouraging states to buy down mortgage rates for first-time married home buyers with children."

102 comments:
I'm no fan of central social engineering on the right or the left.
I do want to see more married couples have more children, but rather than finding ways to artificially encourage them, how about just get the hell out of their way?
What an absolutely dismal post. You’ve got to bribe people to do what comes natural? Remember when men and women were really hot for one another? What a plunge into hyper-nihilism we’ve taken.
As a read that long brainstorm of ideas, I'm hearing a roomful of Horchacks raising their hands.
"Ooh-ooh-ooh, Mr. Kotter!"
US society has been restructured to almost require a double-income family. Until that changes larger families are a pipe dream.
Men and women should be encouraged to have sex and marriage responsibly.
The current policy to keep women affordable, available, reusable, and taxable is dysfunctional. And the "burden" of evidence aborted and sequestered in sanctuary states is transhumane. So is anti-emigration affirmative action with collateral damage.
I am convinced that humanity is in some kind of natural selection event. Not necessarily dissimilar to John Calhoun's Mouse Utopia experiments. The fertility crisis is not a crisis of choice but a crisis of faith, specifically that large cohorts of the world's young are asking if their children's lives would be better than their own and they're saying "no", probably because many societies are increasingly looking like clownworld rat-utopia humiliation rituals.
Technology and more information being available to more people is only going to make this worse. Having children is probably about the biggest leap of faith a human can make, and not making it is a sign that faith in the future is lacking for many.
What is wanted is a child-friendly lifestyle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U0C9HKW
I'm trying to understand what's controversial about these ideas and why it's social engineering to make marriage and families the preferred unit of society.
Medical and pharmaceutical services and products under the Obamacares umbrella are the primary causes of progressive prices, redistributive change schemes are second, immigration reform is third forcing unaffordable and unavailable.
Oh, and the Green blight over land, sea, and air, forcing pricing and unreliable energy.
I've probably told this story here before: Mom's cousin, married to a doctor, so not poor, had 3 daughters. After about 6-7 marriages between them, the youngest finally had a son but needed to go back to work. Cousin said she'd be damned if her grandchild would be raised by strangers and did the childcare. Other daughters: Momma, if we'd known you'd look after them, we'd have had babies, too.
Just realized the son is now mid-late 40s.
... transhumane. So is anti-emigration reform affirmative action with collateral damage.
"Yes, the country needs more children. But it matters how and to whom children are born."
We have increased humanity's quantity in ways our ancestors couldn't comprehend, but there's a lingering questions of quality. If we had time machines and could bring great thinkers and religious leaders of the past to the present they would be dumbstruck at our capabilities, but they would quickly recognize the same personalities and flaws they pondered in their own time.
We are psychotic apes possessing godlike powers processing a nonstop 24/7 onslaught of information with brains designed to nap flint mammoth-hunting spearpoints while eating berries in a cave. That hasn't changed in 10,000 years.
The country does NOT need more children. For fuck's sake, that's a way to run a country broke. Do you know how expensive children are? They have head lice, leukemia, and illiteracy and other costly conditions.
What we need are productive workers, not more little leaches on travel soccer teams. Why not import productive and skilled workers when they are of age? Crazy, but America has done this in the past.
Fucking "conservatives" would rather ban porn than consider immigration as a practical solution. So dumb. So, so derpy.
(Trump fucks Stormy Daniels and then wants to ban porn for the rest of us? SMH.)
We need more illegal immigrants sucking down our tax dollars for Dem votes.
why it's social engineering to make marriage and families the preferred unit of society.
Answer: recommendations to discourage online dating, restrict pornography, create tax credits for bigger families and more
Those are centrally planned recommended actions intended to engineer a preferred outcome for individual families. I met my wife online, and we have been married for over 25 years. Discouraging how we met wouldn't have helped us.
If you want to help, see the next post by n.n. at 11:12am. Stop those policies that harm young couples.
I'm not against pornography, but we should keep our eyes upon the prize and not upon unattainable goals. It's all very well to talk about happy marriages or communal free love, but such aims are utopian and unrealistic. We need a crash program to develop sex robots. They're our only real hope for enduring happiness. Human beings simply cannot get along with one another, and when they're having sexual relations that more often enhances than diminishes the conflicts. What with AI and the right algorithm, I'm sure a sex robot can be produced that is a much more suitable partner. Further down the road, I'm sure we can develop baby and toddler, and robots that don't need potty training and that can easily fulfill people's parental needs.
The pendulum swings.
Cure autism before dramatically increasing the cost of divorce proceedings. Or make divorcing crazies free of charge.
William said, "We need a crash program to develop sex robots."
There's a lot of talk online these days about artificial wombs. However, people - especially women - should be conscious that in a world filled with an increasing number of Ms. Goods and Cea Weavers, artificial wombs and sex robots will become Ford's Model T to biological womens' horse. For an increasingly huge cohort of the world's male population, there would simply be no contest.
Per Jane's Addiction:
♫They'll make great pets♫
♫They'll make great pets!♫
Think Tanks are a grift.
This is dead easy. Why don't people have kids (worldwide)? Because kids are little time sucks.
Say you're a subsistence farmer. You don't have a TV, radio, etc. You have a LOT of spare time, so kids aren't that big of a deal. Your "leisure" time isn't that valuable, so spending it taking care of kids makes sense.
Now put in a radio or TV. Suddenly birthrates drop. You have "something to do" with your evenings. The value of leisure time went up. So kids are "more expensive"
Now imagine modern phones and internet TV shows...suddenly you have massive leisure value for every moment. And the state pays for your retirement. So kids become very far down the list.
My suggestion for getting more kids is to start taxing leisure time. First step: single people without kids? Your leisure time is going to be taxed heavily because you are "leisure rich" - so just like we tax the high income folks at higher rates, we will tax the leisure rich at higher rates.
2 day weekends are for families.
Single people? You get to work one day per weekend. You will be assigned a family, and you will arrive on Saturday and do chores for them. Laundry, dishes, lawnmowing.
Oh you don't like that? Well, there is a way to avoid that: have a family.
Also, instead of chores they could also just pay a tax. Say $25/hour times 8 = $200 tax to get your Saturday off.
Or you could hurry up and get married and have a kid so you get back your Saturday as a day off.
Like the rise and fall of hemlines there’s ebb and flow of the population is too big/population is too small crisis. We’re apparently in the we’re going extinct because it’s too small stage…
…mercifully, at least this paper opposes the money for kids you wouldn’t otherwise have incentives…
Also one kid should only reduce your obligation 50%. 2 kids would remove the obligation.
Watch family formation soar.
"My suggestion for getting more kids is to start taxing leisure time."
The government-central-planning-will-make-this-better fairy reveals his final form...
We're fucked. if you want to experience existential despair, no need to go to an expensive college and inveigle your way into the toughest lit course, no, just follow the trends of the past century, using game theory, logic, and looking at the facts on the ground, and ignoring the pretty narratives we are being fed, and oh, btw, talk to some young people, and you will get a bellyful of existential despair.
If you don't want children, by Grabthar's Hammer, don't have them.
I have sometimes wondered if my cohort of STEM Ph.D's produced enough children to replace itself. Plenty of two-kid families, but plenty of zero and one, as well. Not many 3+. Good careers, but not replacement level reproduction. These families seem to have been what we wanted.
If you want more children, you need hope for the future, specifically a stable job. Births went up in England in the early labor-intensive part of the Industrial Revolution. But that half a point of TFR fell off around 1940 back to the 1800 five where it remained until 1880 when it declined to below 2 by 1940 (the US also declined from five in 1800 to just at 2 in 1940).
There was a small boost in the US during the hope of the Information Revolution in the 1990s but only replacement. Both countries have declined from their long term trend level since 2008 when the last of the Boomer women aged out of the TFR calculation at age 44.
Every time some declares AI will take your job and the future is government UBI, they suppress the potential for more births. But don't worry, once the AI impact on jobs has settled, people may go back to having children. We saw this in the 1990 numbers as the impact of moving stable manufacturing jobs offshore settled out and those below 10 during the 1970s jumped on the computer programmer/jobs.
"People had to be able to ‘afford’ to marry and have children. When economic conditions changed dramatically and called for a huge burst of extra labour, in other words with the early labour-intensive phase of the industrial revolution, then the age at marriage dropped and a larger proportion of the population married. Population grew rapidly as jobs became available."
--Invention of the Modern World, Alan Macfarlane
No one mentions the inevitable result of social engineering: unforeseen consequences.
Any attempt to raise the birthrate without restricting immigration is absurd. This is the usual "Conservative" bilge where "tax cuts" and "Tax Credits" are substitutes for real action.
You can't even get to bozos in the Congressional Republican Leadership to do anything the voters want. So yeah, they'll cut taxes and give away "credits", but anything else? Forgettiboutit.
All these conservative think tanks have two answers to everything (1) Cut taxes and (2) stop regulating business.
Summary, more Muslims = Goodbye Western Civ.
People who don't have children have more time and willingness to exercise their political views. People with children get the shaft.
Current government practice is paying poor people to have children outside of marriage. Which is very bad for the kids. How about we stop doing that at the same time we create incentives to have children within marriage? Tax incentives have always been in place; but make them bigger. And fix public education so that couples know they don’t need to pay for private education.
It's okay if you keep the Africans out. They out-reproduce their poverty child mortality rate to get stability and would take over the US. Their population explosion is a result of the West cutting way down on their child mortality and them not correcting.
I'm all for conversations - but social engineering rarely works for long and has unintended consequences.
Banning porn (while it might be a noble idea) is not going to work. Once you ban something that people want - it will go underground and probably become even more popular.
imo.
Also - some of this stuff scares the crap out of leftists and they use it to scare people and build more rage fueled antifa monsters.
D.D. Driver @ 11:31
Not yours anyway.
Children are fun to have around.
NFL QB Phil Rivers did his bit with 10 children.
@Rustygrommet, mother and father is the word for "God" in the mouths in the hearts of all children...at least until they realize their parents aren't perfect. There's very little on this earth more satisfying than looking at the joy in a child's face brought by the simplest of things, and having them look up to you as they would a hero for doing so.
Well...I'm glad to see this issue being at least discussed. When all is said and done, replacement rate is more important than anything going on around us. If we aren't making enough people to replace us, there's no point to any of this. Neither ICE nor Antifa will matter.
I get that central planning goes against what many of us believe. But damn...I think this will take a multi-pronged (if I can say that) approach. Incentives are essential. People work via incentives- positive or negative. But this is more than that. We've spent decades deriding the family, men, choosing to raise a family over career (if you're a woman). We've declared men toxic, then stupid, and as of late, white men are all criminal. So young men have basically dropped out. Young women are getting mass quantities of degrees, and some of them are even in serious fields. But the chasm between the evil, toxic, non-graduating men and the multi-degreed, always right and noble women is massive.
It's gonna take a lot to get people wanting to commit to live together and start a family with more than 2 children. But...any discussion is worthy.
RSM: Psychotic Apes Possessing Godlike Powers would be a GREAT name for a prog-rock band. CC, JSM
I wondered why Althouse would publish something I view as totally noncontroversial. Preserving the family, encouraging family formation, is the essential core of conservatism, for the family is the foundational building block of civilisation. I’m aghast at the comments. “Social engineering”? Give me a break. We are probably all old enough to remember neighborhoods when we grew up, unlocked doors, mothers in place to cast a side eye at whichever munchkin was wandering through her kitchen…we all remember the unanimous cultural assumption that marriage and family was understood as the primary vocation of most human beings, except for compelling reasons; and this view of the unadulterated good of the family, and the idea that pursuing an unadulterated good was a salutary thing for individual souls to undertake, was reflected in every tv commercial, show and Hollywood movie.
Young people today have completely lost the script. They don’t know anything about courtship, virtuous friendship, or intentionally searching for wife/husband. It is relentlessly drilled into them that living for themselves is high purpose, and they have sacramentalized self care. Oh who am I kidding, I blame feminism for this dark, existential predicament. Many of us are doing just what Heritage proposes: explicitly promoting old movies and literary works that portray a different paradigm. Explicitly passing along traditions that have slowly disappeared. I would welcome any public support I can get.
It's been a bad year for the Heritage Foundation and I guess it will get even worse as those with some common sense leave, leaving the nuts in charge.
If people aren't "doing what comes naturally" it's likely that what comes naturally has changed.
Better do something now before the Democrats get back in power and put Cea Weaver in charge of the Anti-Breeding Squad.
"Cea Weaver in charge of the Anti-Breeding Squad"
Comrade-Starshina Weaver says 'nyet' to sex! She has made the pledge for Big Brother!
Whup a Woman at Work on Wednesday - sort of a "Purge" solution. Men get to beat the crap out of a woman at their workplace once a week, with no penalty (no state-imposed penalty; if the business owner thinks the female employees are worth it, she can ban the practice and fire any beaters).
This would lead to mass female resignations, increased male employment, and women seeking husbands for both financial and physical protection.
If the government is too chicken to adopt the policy, the people can push it from the grass roots. Will you really lock up half your workforce? And if you do, then the results I prescribed above would just be reversed, also encouraging marriage.
Plus, WaWaWoW is sensitive to the cultures of our immigrant coworkers! CC, JSM
We don’t live in an agricultural or industrial age anymore. Most countries with the exception of those with communist or socialist economies can produce more of everything than they need. Just take a look around. Let people be people and everything will work itself out.
There are 350 million people in America now. We put men on the moon with half that. Why the fuck do we need more? Not for a work force; robots are already taking that away and doing everything better and cheaper. If you just need to hear the pitter-patter of little feet around the house, they’ll make little robots for that too, that never grow up and go to college or jail.
@JSM, our 1st album would be "Berries In A Cave". I plan to partner with Mastodon.
RSM: "I plan to partner with Mastodon." Genius! CC, JSM
It's not so much that we want more people. It's that we want to avoid a population collapse. The idea that immigration would offset decreased fertility has a downside that's been ignored until recently.
Do we need 350 million in the U.S.? Get rid of Social Security & Medicare if the government wants more kids.
Less "This is Us" and more "Waltons." A culture change is needed, not different government treatments.
Pornography reduces human exceptionalism, is tolerable, but undesirable.
Agree Country should not seek mere boost in population as long as men issued government guns will shoot at women in the side of the head at close range because feeling disrespected. When I was was growing up that generally only happened to women of color.
I get that central planning goes against what many of us believe. But damn...I think this will take a multi-pronged (if I can say that) approach. Incentives are essential. People work via incentives- positive or negative. But this is more than that. We've spent decades deriding the family, men, choosing to raise a family over career (if you're a woman). We've declared men toxic, then stupid, and as of late, white men are all criminal. So young men have basically dropped out. Young women are getting mass quantities of degrees, and some of them are even in serious fields. But the chasm between the evil, toxic, non-graduating men and the multi-degreed, always right and noble women is massive.
That's where I am. Rather than worrying about where couples meet or whether people watch porn; how about we quit deriding women who want to stay home and raise kids. quit deriding masculinity while elevating femineity, teach home economics in school (so young adults know how to handle credit, debt, pay taxes, make a budget, cook, wash dishes and clothes, maintain a home).
You know what causes many divorces? It's not watching porn. It is running into financial problems because one or both of the parts of the married couple don't know how to live within their means. Those problems cause stress and fighting amongst the couple and dissolves the marriage.
This has a Church Lady feel to it. How many HF fellows wear bow ties? A lot is my guess.
"A previous draft obtained by The Post, … also included an appendix of ideas that Heritage did not endorse but said were offered ‘in the spirit of furthering debate and innovative thinking on family policy.'... Some of the excluded ideas included studying:
“'child-proxy voting,' where parents could cast an extra half-vote on behalf of each of their children.”
Conservatives tend to have more children than liberals, so they will gain a bigger voice. (Yes, c vs l is not the only factor in family size.)
“dramatically increasing the cost of divorce proceedings while making marriage licenses free”
Marriage licenses only cost $40-65 in Ohio. Before entertaining the divorce idea, I would add the qualifier “if children are involved”.
“legally punishing adultery and 'homewrecker[s]'”
Are those really a significant problem?
“banning pornography
There’s a joke in there about banning it only when they take it from my cold dead hands.
“making Election Day a half-day or holiday to promote family-based civic activity”
Along with strict voting hours and results tallied in 24 hours.
“The appendix also floated '15-minute communities,' or developments that cluster schools, parks and employment centers in walkable or short driving distances.”
Starting age 7, it was a 15 minute bike ride thru my urban neighborhood to my urban school. My then-future wife lived in the country just outside of the city and it was a 10 minute car ride in to her suburban school.
It considered prohibiting home sellers from off-loading starter homes until they’ve received a legitimate offer from a married couple with children.”
Government interference in the market. No thanks.
A note on the topic courtesy of AVI who reports on findings from statistician Lyman Stone "Stone has pointed out elsewhere that this decline tracks with the decline in marriage. Married people have almost the same number of children as they did decades ago, and unmarried women have the same amount each. It's just that there are a lot more unmarried women now."
Want more kids? Change social discourse to encourage people to get married, and married earlier rather than later, rather than try those that eventually get married to have more kids.
If we're brainstorming here, I'd suggest making it legal for young attractive women to rape men in their 60's.
The heritage foundation comes out with ideas and recommendations every year. the left have no clue about this - and merely use it as a scare tactic.
that said - the H foundation need better ideas.
I think banning voter ID should be illegal.
Readering - tell us why this anti-ICE harasser (looks like so far) didn't simply follow lawful orders given to her by law enforcement. - Stop and get out of the vehicle.
is she above the law?
Leland @ 1:28.
Well done. Well done.
Temujin, too. Well done.
We really need to stop berating normal male-female roles and let people ... be.
No one mentions the only inevitable result of social engineering: unforeseen consequences.
FIFY (I don't think I've ever typed that acronym).
As I read through the comments, my first reaction was, "No no no, nothing 'positive' - just remove the negatives!" And as I kept reading, I grew more and more uneasy, and finally I landed on, "No nationwide anything. Look for natural experiments, MAYBE try a pilot project, absolutely don't jump into any big initiatives" - because, as above, the only guaranteed result of any attempt at "nudging," much less compelling, human behavior is unintended consequences.
Public school boards across our nation are being taken over by the trans + gay + sex obsessed. Many of these people are childless.
I suggest non-leftist parents get involved at the local level.
If you want more children in the United States - and I mean American children, not Somali children imported for the purposes of stealing the tax dollars that are taken out of your check each week - then you need to GET WOMEN BACK HOME.
Women CANNOT have children and also be at work, taking their husband's job and doing it for 75 cents on the dollar.
As long as women are allowed to work, the US will be in decline.
The future definitely belongs to Sharia-run nations because they are the only ones boosting their economy, having children, and keeping their women from destroying jobs and incomes in the economy.
...and that included gay parents who care about this stuff, too.
We need a return to a focus on learning subject matter - not sex sex sex.
Simple. Stop denigrating stay-at-home parents. Most families can afford that if they are wise with their spending
This is all just a bunch of hot air anyway. The Power elite has decided to replace the natives with Immigrants. And that's how they will get the children they desparately want for the economy.
Charlie Kirk had to be murdered because he had a wife and a family - and they all loved each other. and he had opinions that differed from the left.
Bagoh
"I'd suggest making it legal for young attractive women to rape men in their 60's."
It is legal. Because no matter how much you *wink* protest, ya ultimately cannot rape the willing.
The choke point is the shrinking of the middle class that started in the early 1970s when the billionaires decided to take money away from the American people because they got too big for their britches and were demanding civil rights women's rights gay rights and ending the war in Vietnam etc etc
They are stealing our money.
US society has been restructured to almost require a double-income family. Until that changes larger families are a pipe dream.
We can restructure it back. Let's destroy 4/5ths of the Federal government, bring all our servicemen home from around the world, and vigorously audit every dollar of social spending by state governments. We can use the savings to subsidize mortgages for young married couples, but not baby mamas.
We should unapologetically use the power of government promote traditional family life and morality, and spit in the face of any leftists who say it's white supremacy or we haven't done enough for tranny film and dance festivals or whatever disgusting deviancy they want to shove down our throats.
'child-proxy voting,' where parents could cast an extra half-vote on behalf of each of their children; dramatically increasing the cost of divorce proceedings while making marriage licenses free; legally punishing adultery and 'homewrecker[s]'; banning pornography; and making Election Day a half-day or holiday to promote family-based civic activity....; '15-minute communities,' or developments that cluster schools, parks and employment centers in walkable or short driving distances...; prohibiting home sellers from off-loading starter homes until they’ve received a legitimate offer from a married couple with children...
(Posted early see the above quote). Not necessarily critical of all or any one of these in the abstract, but show me where in the Constitution the Federal Government can mandate any of this.
RSM - "We are psychotic apes possessing godlike powers processing a nonstop 24/7 onslaught of information with brains designed to nap flint mammoth-hunting spearpoints while eating berries in a cave. That hasn't changed in 10,000 years."
Devo was right - it is so easy to survive, particularly in the Great Society, that we are undergoing de-evolution!
Aaron - "This is dead easy. Why don't people have kids (worldwide)? Because kids are little time sucks.
Say you're a subsistence farmer. You don't have a TV, radio, etc. You have a LOT of spare time, so kids aren't that big of a deal. Your "leisure" time isn't that valuable, so spending it taking care of kids makes sense."
Not just that, but kids were the workforce! Having more kids meant being able to tend more chickens, cows, crops, etc. Maybe we should encourage putting kids back to work like the old days, rather than lay about in public indoctrination dens - er, schools.
Wanna see how many lies a Leftist can pack into two sentences while relating any given topic to the Current Thing? See Readering @ 1:20pm
My son with a 1-yo thinks only men with children should have the voting franchise. And maybe additional votes for each additional child. They are expecting their second, God willing. It's as good a limitation on the franchise as any. When everyone votes, we sink quickly to appeals to the least common denominator.
Children are becoming more and more a consumption decision. Especially for middle class people who have other opportunities to spend their income. It is too easy to see how a child impacts your expenses and easily decide to forego the challenge.
Rather than try to lower the costs, we need to have a culture that increases the value of children. That is a fight against progressives, environmentalists and others.
The future definitely belongs to Sharia-run nations because they are the only ones boosting their economy, having children, and keeping their women from destroying jobs and incomes in the economy.
I agree with two out of the three above propositions - not so sure they are generally boosting their economies?
Child-proxy voting is seriously underrated. The only reason conservatives wouldn't want it, I think, is because they're too used to thinking of their own children as property and not people.
Feminism is not exactly an unalloyed blessing for women in the United States. Both of my daughters have had successful careers. They are now in their 50s. When the younger daughter decided that she and her husband wanted children (they were then about 40) it was tough to conceive in the "age old way". Much grief, many dollars and a lot of medical help eventually produced two wonderful children.
Her mother and I started early and conception when a man and wife are in their mid 20s is "easy peasy" so to speak.
I had a good job while we were having and raising our kids, in the 1990s- 2000s-2010s. Still, I was supporting my non-working wife, paying a mortgage (albeit just 200k, we bought before real estate insanity), paying parochial schools, saving for three kids UC expenses. We had one car, hers, as I took the train downtown. Children in themselves aren't such an expense, other than forgoing work by one spouse.
And all this in super-expensive San Francisco.
I dont understand people who claim they are missing out because they are raising kids. I simply was never happier than when the children were little.
I never had career ambitions. I went to college, I got two degrees, I worked in professional roles, but as soon as I got married and my husband expressed HIS career ambitions, I was happy to support him. We married at age 26, and I told him that by age 30, I planned to have a child, with or without him - more or less a joke, as I was sure I could talk him around by then. In fact I did.
I've worked for money over the years, but never again in a role that could have supported a family in comfort. I'm very lucky to have had a husband whose career ambitions were high enough, and ability strong enough, that he could support all of us very comfortably.
Our three children are the greatest boon and blessing, entertainment, reality check, of our lives. We've tried to make clear to all three of them how rewarding their existence has been for us so that they have something to counteract the message that children are nothing but a time and money suck, as others have said - some of them sarcastically - on this thread.
exhelodrvr1 said...
Simple. Stop denigrating stay-at-home parents. Most families can afford that if they are wise with their spending.
"For full-time care in Santa Clara County (Silicon Valley), families typically face the following average annual costs:
Child's Age Child Care Center (Annual) Family Child Care Home (Annual)
Infant (0-2) $24,710 – $31,200 $19,820
Toddler (2-3) $16,875 $16,680
Preschool (3-5) $13,220 $15,635
Easier for upper middle class and welfare recipients to have more kids here. If poor people play all their cards right, get money, medical, rent, food stamps,. Still need to supplement with work for cash handyman or babysitting jobs, sell some drugs. Still need a 3 seat mini to legally drive with more than 3. Can't just put them in the back of the pick-up anymore.
Full Moon
I never kept a running tally. I simply enjoyed being a dad.
No one mentions helping pay for in vitro fertilization and other expensive treatments to cure infertility.
Colleges could make it easier to be married with kids while in college, like they did after WWII with Quonset huts and such. Besides your tuition, you don't really spend a huge amount of money in college, and your time is more flexible than it's ever going to be again, so you can spend the relatively small additional amount of money and relatively large amount of time needed for infants and toddlers.
Colleges could make more married-student housing available, make it easy to put children on your college health insurance, actually have pediatricians in the university health service, have some childcare available at low or no cost, and have legacy-type admissions and transfers for student spouses. Nowadays you can get all kinds of postponed and cancelled exams and papers for psychological stress like the wrong guy winning the election - should not be a huge leap to do the same for students giving birth or having difficult pregnancies.
I have been wondering for 20 years why the Catholic universities don't do all this, since it would seem to fit snugly within the Pope's doctrines. The Mormons very often get married during college, so their habitual schools must be making at least some of the accommodations I suggest. CC, JSM
I don't like social engineering either, but we've already socially engineered toward having fewer kids. As one example, we've socialized retirement savings via Social Security, so retirees get the same benefit regardless of how many kids (if any) they had that are contributing to the system.
And yes, aside from Social Security, we need more children. We don't want to end up like Europe and Japan with declining population, or population that only grows because of immigration.
"Preserving the family, encouraging family formation, is the essential core of conservatism, for the family is the foundational building block of civilisation."
Well said, Caroline
The key word here is family. This is not about sex or pornography. But how do people who did not grow up in a loving family learn how to do this? I think that's where the conversation needs to go.
I have met young women from a certain community who believe that starting a family, having several children, comes before getting an education or meeting a mate and getting married. The common belief is the the government is responsible for supporting this family.
This is probably why socialists so love the idea of universal childcare because it takes the children out of the family and indoctrinates them into the collective.
Some may say "single parent family" is a genuine model of a family which is OK for children. I can't dismiss the effort by single parents to provide for their children but I don't think that family can produce the solid stable results of a good two parent family.
"Intergenerational transmission of single parenthood" -- has been studied. There is a measurable tendency for “non‑intact” family structures (single parenthood, stepfamilies) to repeat across generations, i.e., higher risks of nonmarital births and relationship breakdown among those who did not grow up with both biological parents. These studies consistently find that children who grow up outside a low‑conflict two‑parent married home are, on average, less likely to marry, more likely to cohabit, and more likely to experience union instability in adulthood, compared to peers from stable married‑parent families.
You don't get families if you don't have a culture that values life.
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