👀 Smashing Pumpkins’ Billy Corgan Finds It ‘Strange’ That Rock Music Has Fizzled Out
— Chief Nerd (@TheChiefNerd) January 10, 2026
“There are forces in the world that go out of their way to marginalize particular voices … because they refuse to accept the given narrative … Rock was the greatest single social changing… pic.twitter.com/OPD0pxIEQ4
January 10, 2026
"Rock was the greatest single social changing force of the 20th century..."
"And here we are 25 years into the 21st century, and rock couldn't be less of an influence on the social political order. Does anybody think that that's kind of strange?"Asks Billy Corgan.
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91 comments:
He's got a rather narrow definition of 'rock.' As a fellow Chicagoan of almost the same age, I sympathize. But it makes his argument boil down to 'my style of popular music isn't popular.' He lists other genres, notably rap, that do have political and cultural influence. I would say that rap/hip-hop is rock, just like rock is R&B. All the genres overlap. Hip-hop producers sample in rock all the time. The 'whitest' heavy metal bands Corgan and I listened to on WLUP were basically blues bands. Pumpkins put orchestral strings in some of their songs; in that way, classical music lives on. &c. CC, JSM
I characterize it as drum, as opposed to classical music that has internal harmonic conversations. Africa vs Europe.
I dunno. Communism/Socialism was a pretty big social changing force in the 20th century. 100 million plus missing who would have backed me on this. As was the Nazi movement. The advent of the internet kind of changed things a bit, don't you think? The iPhone?
People have short memories. Or don't actually pay attention to history.
Elvis and The Beatles were big. But not the same. I mean, I liked Joe Strummer as much as the next guy, but I don't think he changed the world, or society. Nor did Dylan. Ask him.
The automobile. The pill.
What's weird is Mr. Corgan seems to sincerely believe the things he says in that video without being strung out on drugs.
Old bald guy buttoned up and sold out. He talked for minutes in your clip, and didn't say anything relevant...
He is not being muted. His money insulated him from having anything relevant to say. Same as you ann. Big platform, no message.
"Hey old kids.... wanna hear me reminisce about dying music and TV stars from my youth? Pay me to get wild and sexually suggestively lick an egg salad sandwich for the cameras?"
Time for your daily walk, ma'am....
Rhhardin: what about prog rock? CC, JSM
Young people are the messengers of truth.
Old boomers are trying to stamp out young people for decades. You'll be off the stage in time.
Probably around the time nirvana and inxs became self indulgent
So generic, written by committee (and AI), autotuned dreck has less effect? The Devil you say! Strangely, live music is still selling tickets. Humm. Quite the puzzle.
Rock and Roll is near and dear to my heart, but that’s a clueless take, Billy. Television certainly had more cultural and social impact than rock.
The single greatest artistic force of the 20th century was the motion picture, in all its myriad forms.
Second data point: rap fell out of the Top 40 for the first time in 30 years.
Now rock music on TV, that was revolutionary.
Glory days, glory days, glory days...
Talk it up, oldsters. Lol
Chevy uses Judas Priest in current truck commercials. Old solid rock and roll.
Social Media
I think rock music is the single most influential factor in a rock musician's life. For the rest of us not so much. Microwave ovens, Amazon home deliveries, internet porn, the end of leather, hard soled shoes: all of these things have had more of an impact on my life. I like rock music but if it didn't exist, I could make do with Glen Miller or Gilbert & Sullivan......
Hey! It's Bill Burr's brother!
IYKYK
https://youtu.be/ZkkTiRJz07A?si=yvugxR5_FyZFNxx-
When this post first came up on my screen I thought it was one of the old Civil War era death photos. Only thing missing was the sad Ken Burns violin music.
Billy Corgan has a high opinion of himself. He deserves to have a high opinion of himself. However, maybe that opinion ought not be quite as high as it is. I say this as someone who really likes the Smashing Pumpkins.
Billy Corgan exits his time machine at the Wagner villa in 1877, where he and Richard discuss the impact of rock and opera in their respective golden eras and their influence on culture both in the zenith and afterward.
I think it is stranger that rock was a huge social influence at one time (assuming that to be the case) than that it isn't anymore.
i think electronics (thermionic, solid state, semiconductor),
PROBABLY had a slightly bigger bigger affect on social change,
than long haired boys playing g-tars in their garage.
i wonder were this "rock" would have been without amps?
Social Media projecting millions of average people dominates the culture today. It's purely democratic.
oh! i see,
he means that rock was the greatest single social changing force of the 20th century..
as far as ENTERAINMENT..
well; as far as MUSIC..
well; as far as music for white people..
well; as far as music for white people in northern USA
got it!
Mezzrow: "Billy Corgan exits his time machine at the Wagner villa in 1877"
Wagner is the progenitor of prog rock and heavy metal. The multimedia Gesamtkunstwerk, the incredibly long multi-episode cycles, the incorporation of ancient legend, the leitmotiv as a recurring signifier in those long cycles, etc.
If the 60s and 70s rock guys weren't classically trained (and lots of them were), they were tapping into that same need for a culturally unifying multisensory experience that Wagner was. CC, JSM
The Walz Boelter metric of biden illegal entrants... Russia Russia Covid Fauci.
Billy Corgan has a horrible singing voice.
Not trying to be mean here. He seems like a nice normal guy.
Rick Beato talks about the decline of pop/rock music very regularly. I find almost all of such music made today unlistenable/boring as all fuck. One thing Beato regularly points to is songwriting by committee. My personal view is that such committee writing shows that combining the efforts of lots of talentless hacks doesn't improve on any one of their singular efforts- a million monkeys typing on computers for a million years just gives nonsense.
I don't know about his claim that rock was the single greatest social force in the 20th Century, but I am intrigued by the suggestion that someone pushed a button and stopped rock from being a social force at all. It always did seem odd to me how quickly rock seemed to largely disappear from the scene once the 90s ended.
Peachy, Corgan's voice is quite unique and distinctive- I am huge Smashing Pumpkins fan and his voice, however bad it might be from a technical point of view, would be missed sorely by people like me.
’Wagner is the progenitor of prog rock and heavy metal.’
The Ring Cycle is the only piece longer than In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, so you’re on to something… :)
"Rock was the greatest single social changing force of the 20th century..."
People need to read up on social contagion.
Much of this is monkey see monkey do.
’It always did seem odd to me how quickly rock seemed to largely disappear from the scene once the 90s ended.’
Some of the best rock music ever made is still alive and well.
h/t Johnny Winter
(see my avatar for details)
Yancey - Just my opinion. I'm not anti-Smashing Pumpkins!
Heck - they are very popular and he is a rich man because of it.
I'm just a vocal snob - don't mind me.
The Vault Dweller said...
Billy Corgan has a high opinion of himself. He deserves to have a high opinion of himself. However, maybe that opinion ought not be quite as high as it is. I say this as someone who really likes the Smashing Pumpkins.
They're probably my most-played of the last 35 years. Gish through Mellon are always not far from being listened to. Corgan is, I believe, a musical genius, and can be wrong a lot, but at least he's thoughtful. I've been watching clips from this program of his and he's quite listenable.
I don't know how one would define "Rock". I'm sure it's my favorite genre, but I have no idea where the boundaries of Rock and Roll are.
Corgan has done well in life and Smashing Pumpkins have a secure place in the rock pantheon, but if his moment has passed, so be it. His song "1979" came out in 1996 and we're now 30 years past that. And I hear songs from well before those years every day, everywhere I go. The ones that had potency retain it.
I would say rather that Rock was a result of the social forces of its time, and not a producer of them.
When I first read the headline I thought it said "The Rock was ...." It led to a few interesting thoughts about a former wrestler and which of his acting roles had such a profound influence on the world.... Anyway, I need more coffee this morning.
Imagine choosing your own profession as the "greatest single social changing force of the 20th century".
I could make a case that mine, which is industry, was the greatest, and I think it is. The changes to society from how people work in industry, what they do there, and what they make are pretty profound. A lot of artists are blind to that whole part of the world, although they depend on it for survival like everyone else.
Telecommunications.
I'm always taken by the fact that 50 and 60 year old Rocks songa are still in the air everywhere, and young people still like them. In 1970's you would rarely hear music from the 10's or 20's. Something about Rock has been really strong in the face of all the change, although I've noticed it finally fading a little in the last 5 years.
I attended a high school hockey game last night and all the music was rap or rap adjacent.
Industry built telecommunications.
Industry changed art more than art changed industry. There is no Rock without modern instruments, amps, music playing devices, and the wonderful cars we listened to it in.
One can make a weak case that rock music provided an internationalization of popular culture that was new and fresh. Perhaps it influenced other international cultural exchanges. Sports television flourished afterward with huge growth in many pro sports. Eh. TV as a medium leading directly to the internet is probably a stronger argument.
Good points, Bago. However, to play the smashing pumpkins advocate, it is art that leverages the power of technology to the next order of magnitude to actually change culture. The old saw about a Craftsman shouldn't blame his tools is also true in the reverse that the tools don't get all the credit, otherwise any swinging dick could be a rockstar.
I would claim that folk and rock music was a symptom of the social change that occurred in the 50’s and 60’s, and far from a cause. A “social lubricant” if you will.
This is like saying that Duke Ellington and Glenn Miller caused world war 2.
"Much of this is monkey see monkey do."
Or Monkee see, Monkee do.
The thing most important to me must, of course be the most important to you. Was Elvis, for example trying to be a social force? Somehow I doubt it. Are today's artists trying. Some are. And they are trying too hard, often by speeches between songs not the songs themselves. Roll in the fact that "rock" can mean music within a range I never imagined in my youth (kind of like country music). Why would this mish-mash of over produced, sample heavy autotuned drek influence anyone?
JAORE - indeed. when Rock turns to lecture.. I turn it to... off.
These days most of it is churned out in a lab. The artists have creativity - but no real musical instrument playing ability. Intuitive talent might be there - but ..
A band I like and listen to, they are somewhat lab created.
Other than the drummer - and the song writer's singing - the others require back-up.
A 80's example of a pop band that had no ability to play anything, is the B-52's. The girls could sing - but the entire production was created in the lab using studio musicians.
It still works. So I don't care.
I miss the anticipation of venturing to the record store to flip thru the goodies and new releases.
SMART PHONES!
Imagine WW II if everyone had one.
Imagine all the information in the world in the palm of your hand - without a clue what any of it meant.
Imagine raising teenagers who really did know everything.
Imagine no sense of excitement and awe about far-away places because you've seen 'em a million times before seeing them for the first time.
If that ain't bad enough, wait till AI hits its stride. The more I think about it; being 83 may be a blessing, not a curse.
ROCK ON!!!!! And don't forget to write Trump and have him send Roger Goodell and Bad Bunny to the Supermax in El Salvador before the Super Bowl.
Young people set the tone for these cultural changes. Sixty years ago, rock was new and something most parents disliked or feared. That made it dangerous and edgy. Today rock is a quaint form of entertainment associated with parents and grandparents.
Rock died when it settled comfortably into the corporate culture, and learned not to stray too far outside the acceptable lines. Fat, aging rockers aren't willing to rock the boat.
I don't know who this man is -- perhaps because I stopped following current music a long time ago. I listen to the songs of my youth and enjoy them. Yes, some were "anthems" but he gives way too much importance to music. I believe (and I am biased) that the music of my generation was the best but look at the baby boomers and the rest that came of that music and what they believed in and how they screwed up America. Very few rock artists are worth listening to outside of their music.
Is anybody "pushing a button and making sure [that] people like [him] don't say things anymore?"
Or is nobody listening because what you're saying is the same tired old stuff?*
*I will concede that I don't know any Smashing Pumpkins songs. Is he singing about, say, the absolute fraudulence of the Democrat's J6 "investigation" and "report?" About how government-funded NGO's are bent on taking over just about everything? (Or were, at least until Trump and Elon knocked out the funding?)
Rap has been a major cultural change agent as well.
It has glorified thug & gangsta lifestyles. Romanticized gun violence. Promoted misogyny and reduced women to bitches and hos. Eroded grammar and syntax and de-emphasized upward mobility through education and industry in favor of sports and, well, rap as career paths. Glorified conspicuous consumption, bling and expensive cars over frugality and long-term saving and investing. And prepetuated the minority grievance industry. Now THAT's social impact!
The rock and roll "rebels" became the establishment and they brook no dissent.
boatbuilder, for what it's worth, Corgan is one of the few outspoken conservatives in the music industry.
Things change. Deal with it. And not all change is good.
“ Very few rock artists are worth listening to outside of their music”
True of any art form. Including, interestingly and ironically, writing.
"When I first read the headline I thought it said "The Rock was ...." It led to a few interesting thoughts about a former wrestler and which of his acting roles had such a profound influence on the world.... Anyway, I need more coffee this morning."
Even more interesting given that Corgan owns a wrestling company (NWA) with a TV deal on Roku, I believe.
Not huge on music personally, but I do miss, you know, actual guitars in music. Sampling aplenty gets hella hold hella quick.
These days most of it is churned out in a lab. The artists have creativity - but no real musical instrument playing ability.
There are very few real instruments being recorded as well. Most "drum" tracks are fully computer generated and include non-organic sound effects, virtually all vocals are autotuned enough that it is hard to tell one singer from another, most "back-up" vocals are just computer-generated doubles of the lead singer, and (probably most relevant to Corgan's point) most lyrics these days are group/corporate-written and consist of "look at me, I'm so great" drivel.
I just listened to about a minute of "1979." I sounds like something I may have heard as background music before, but it made no strong impression. I have heard the name of the band--a lot--but somehow the music never registered at all.
Also Billy Corgan's voice really doesn't go with his face. Maybe I expect him to sing like Bill Burr (which would be interesting).
Or Bill Barr, which would be even more interesting.
In 1970's you would rarely hear music from the 10's or 20's.
A big factor is probably that recording quality hit it's high point around the late-60's/early 70's, rendering much of the music recorded then (and since then) very listenable today. Go back to the big-band era recordings, or even early rock, and the sound quality keeps you from being able to enjoy the music regardless of the quality of the songs or the performances.
It was appropriate that the Smashing Pumpkins guy had a head like a giant pumpkin. It would have been even more appropriate if he were always smashed.
War was the biggest influence in the first half of the 20th century, and I'd say that affluence and advertising were the biggest influences in the second half. The upsurge of rock had a lot to do with the coming of affluent post-industrial society. Now that it's here, what's left to be said about it that hasn't been said a thousand times? Literature and other arts have the same problem. It doesn't help that the kids who were jamming in the garage are now on their phones playing videos and videogames all the time.
Hip Hop’s run of 25 years has come to an end. Doesn’t mean Rock will return to the top.
Quantum mechanics. Gave us everything from A-bombs to iPhones to AI.
It's also appropriate that his big 1996 song was a bittersweet, quasi-nostalgic paean to 1979. So much of suburban youth culture was mediatized in music, movies and television in the last century. What's left to be said?
There's only so many ways to bang on a drum.
---- the only piece longer than In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida
Play it on a loop. By the sixth or seventh time, you are in a different place. At 10x, -- is it heaven, or is it hell?
"War was the biggest influence in the first half of the 20th century..."
And again industry decided the war.
I often try to imagine how music could change again as profoundly as it did with Rock, but I'm not creative enough to imagine an answer. Rap changed music a lot, but not for the better, and it's really just a deconstruction retrograde search for edge. It also seems to be the most money driven genre to date, competing with country and pop for formularity, which isn't a real word, but should be.
All Things Must Pass.
boatbuilder said...
"Maybe I expect him to sing like Bill Burr (which would be interesting)."
Bill Burr and Billy Corgan may be half-brothers. That's what my previous posts were about.
https://ew.com/bill-burr-and-billy-corgan-address-brother-rumors-in-surprise-meeting-8780626
tommyesq said...
“These days most of it is churned out in a lab… virtually all vocals are autotuned enough that it is hard to tell one singer from another…”
This guy analyzes Judy Garland singing “Somewhere Over the Rainbow”, contrasting it with Kelly Clarkson’s version. To oversimplify, the subtle things Judy does to make her performance so good would be auto-tuned out in today’s recording studio, causing it to loose a bit of it’s edge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDJF4lR3_eg
formularity - put that in the lock box.
Rock was a secondary effect of bigger changes. Which makes me wonder what California will do for entertainment when the electricity runs out :)
Engineers: "Tell me, O Muse, of the men of many devices..."
"I'd love to change the world, but I don't know what to do, so I leave up to you" - 10 years After
It’s been two days and 90 comments and nobody’s going to mention Billy Corgan told Howard Stern that he was having sex with somebody who shapeshifted— twice— and that the Internet has investigated and deduced it was Tila Tequila? It’s like I don’t know you people anymore.
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