“To our enemies: FAFO,” Hegseth said, using an acronym that translates to “Fuck around and find out.”
Hegseth ordered hundreds of U.S. military officials around the globe to meet him at a spontaneous assembly in Virginia.... The message shocked members of the U.S. military, who could not recall another instance in which a defense secretary summoned so many commanders for a sudden in-person meeting—especially without a clear rationale.
Was it a "disturbing speech" because of what Hegseth said or was a "disturbing speech" because it was disturbing to have to travel and sit in the audience to hear?
As it turns out, the rationale was to rail against the culture wars. Hegseth, pacing back and forth onstage, also leveraged his time in front of America’s military to criticize “woke” ideology. He ordered the armed forces to reset its combat requirements to the “highest male standard only,” a decision that would effectively force women out of the military.
“If women can make it, excellent. If not, it is what it is,” Hegseth said.
It "would effectively force women out of the military" because we know women can't meet the standard that has been required for men? Quite aside from the probably unintended concession that this means biological men don't belong in women's sports, you're not "out of the military" just because you don't meet "combat requirements." At worst, you're just back to where you were before women were allowed into combat. That is, back to 2013.
Another thing that's wrong with that New Republic headline is ambiguity. "Hegseth Summoned Military Leaders to Say 'FAFO'" sounds as though he got them to say FAFO, as if he called them all together to make them chant the sassy initialism. (Unless Hegseth pronounced "FAFO" as a single word, it's not an "acronym." It's an initialism. And that's something else wrong with the article.)
***
My runner-up bad headline goes to The Hill for "Hegseth declares war on 'fat' generals, troops."“Frankly, it’s tiring to look out at combat formations, or really any formation, and see fat troops,” he said. “Likewise, it’s completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon leading commands around the country and the world.”
“It’s a bad look. It is bad, and it’s not who we are,” he continued.
Another runner up, from The Washington Post: "Trump tells a roomful of silent generals to join a ‘war from within’/The president delivered an unusually meandering speech to an unprecedented gathering of the nation’s top military leaders" (gift link).
Do generals normally burst into spontaneous applause when listening to the Commander in Chief? I think not.
The article is full of references to their silence, but at least someone saw fit to insert this: "The military follows strict customs and courtesies, which include showing deference and respect to the commander in chief and refraining from showing approval or disapproval of political statements."
And: "I was told that, 'Sir, you won’t hear a murmur in the room,' Trump continued. 'I said we had to loosen these guys up a little bit.'"
So: never mind.
And I've got to question "an unusually meandering speech." Really? Unusually? Meandering is Trump's style. He calls it "the weave." Has someone at WaPo actually measured the comparative tightness of the various weaves?
***
Now, I'm done with my harangue. The journalists need to get in shape. Frankly, I'm getting tired of looking at their writing and seeing such shit. It’s completely unacceptable.
152 కామెంట్లు:
I'm old, I'm fat, this travel kills me. Doesn't this asshole realize we've all been to a million meaningless meetings, and we don't need any more? Why can't he stay in the big office in DC and throw paper airplanes at his dart board?
You know what's depressing? The food and service on this trip. I wish I was Patton, or someone who was in the same species as Patton: FAFO baby.
Was it worth the time and expense bringing all those people there from across the globe for what we saw?
I dont see the value.
Cry me a river. You can kill people all day long, but your tender little ears get hurt by "FAFO"?
Women: Review the old (unathletic) Andy Kaufmann vs. women wrestling videos before you sign up for war...
Oh, look, the hacks are now showing their pent up frustration for the previous administration, using all those unflattering adjectives that they weren't allowed to use when Dementia Joe was in office. Why, Trump is so fat and senile he's tottering around on stage, meandering his way through a speech-without-a-subject. Except he's holding impromptu pressers every time he's out in public, and holding down a demanding schedule that would wear out a man 15 years younger. Maybe our elite press corps is a little too fat, too, around the waist and between the ears.
Most generals are fat and worthless now. Any general who can’t pass the PT should be fired immediately.
I didn't think much of the gymbro focus to military affairs, but watching the fat pasty sodomites of the corporat media go all weepy demands some credit.
Every single general that was involved in the planning and execution of the Afghanistan pull out Should Be Court Martialed and discharged dishonorably for dereliction of duty.
The problem with Trump’s weave —as journos see it— is that the Trump wave doesn’t show signs of cresting, despite their best efforts at witching it away.
"Was it worth the time and expense bringing all those people there from across the globe for what we saw? I dont see the value."
I like to think — or am terrified to think — that there were cameras trained on the faces the entire time and there is AI capable of producing a psychological profile of each person behind the face. Now Hegseth and Trump know who is loyal and who is resistant and who's an utter snake.
The AI also figured out who's fat.
Yes, we need a meeting of all MSM reporters so Althouse can give them a speech. LOL.
"the rationale was to rail against the culture wars" - the memo must have gone out because I see one MSM headline/article after another use the word "rail".
I agree that physical standards for combat roles should be at their highest. I just hope that Transgenders aren't hurt by it because Generals have declared we can't win a war without them.
It wasn't "unusually meandering" at all. It was tightly focused. It was a speech that a really good trial lawyer would give. I thought it was exceptional on both rhetoric and substance.
In time, this will be viewed as both a great and important speech. The ChiComs and Russia got the message.
I'm genuinely curious what the attack will be. How can the left defend having fat generals and soldiers who cannot do a pushup? Besides the obvious: the left hates the US and wants us to lose wars.
Love the mind reading in every article. Military leaders are upset at the speech. Oh, and they're shocked at the meeting. And some think its "fascist". Notice we never get any names. Which means its just the reporter's opinion.
BINGO
The journalists need to get in shape. Frankly, I'm getting tired of looking at their writing and seeing such shit. It’s completely unacceptable.
Welcome to 2013…
doctrev said...
I didn't think much of the gymbro focus to military affairs, but watching the fat pasty sodomites of the corporat media go all weepy demands some credit.
Discipline is the core competency of the military and its operations. You don’t need to be special or do anything truly heroic to do your job. Most military actions are lowest common denominator.
Requiring a basic level of fitness and maintaining a basic level of physical appearance and stature is the easiest step to take to maintain a disciplined unit.
The most important factor in the success of a military unit is that each member of that unit has confidence in the person to their left and the right to do their job. If you have any doubts about the other people in your unit, then the chances of a successful mission are pretty much zero.
If someone can’t even bother to do 50 push-ups and run a couple miles a day it’s really hard to trust them With your life.
Yes, it was lame, not disturbing, unless you’re a beardo or a woman in a combat role. As to whether women get reassigned or pushed out of the military, we really really don’t know yet. Hegseth did invite the beardos to join the special forces.
I know some men who are still building their careers who take Ozempic. I wonder if once you have reached the pinnacle of your career, being quite overweight really wouldn't matter that much to you anymore and definitely not enough to put up with the side effects.
Maybe if these Beta-boy generals showed that they were capable of winning a conflict sometime, they wouldn't need a tongue-lashing from the administration. At this point I think that a troop of Girl Scouts would stand a better chance of prevailing than these over-decorated retards.
Ann calling for better crafted propaganda...
Isn't it the duty of generals, etc. to do what their commanders want? You think you've got better things to do? Not your call.
I think it's ludicrous for a journalistic article to call it a "disturbing speech." Who is disturbed? The headline writer? Were the military leaders disturbed? All of them? Some of them? Don't create fake objectivity. Someone needs to have been disturbed. I want to know who and why.
The point is for the HEADLINE READER to be disturbed. Today's "news" is a signal to the faithful what emotions they should express so not to be out of step with the rest of the cult.
The rest of the article could be lorem ipsum for all they care.
My military service was 30 years ago, but it was routine to toss out people who didn't meet weight and physical fitness standards. And I don't remember seeing any fat generals. Not that I hung around with them a lot.
You got weighed and took a PT test every six months. If you didn't meet standards you were put on an additional PT program and if you were over weight they had a program for that too. You had six months and if you didn't meet the standards by then, adios.
Since I was in a combat support MOS we didn't usually do PT everyday, we did it three times a week. But, they weren't fooling around. Hard calisthenics and fast paced runs. However, when I attended residential leadership development courses (and basic training) that was a five day a week PT environment.
As for grooming requirements, they have degraded to an alarming degree. Grooming standards in the military aren't arbitrary. Among other things, they present a professional appearance to the world. And the military isn't the place to let your freak flag fly.
Ann Althouse said...
"Was it worth the time and expense bringing all those people there from across the globe for what we saw? I dont see the value."
I like to think — or am terrified to think — that there were cameras trained on the faces the entire time and there is AI capable of producing a psychological profile of each person behind the face. Now Hegseth and Trump know who is loyal and who is resistant and who's an utter snake.
That would be in the third book of the Dune series “children of Dune “when Jessica Atreides returns to Dune after being gone for about a decade to see her grandchildren.
"At worst, you're just back to where you were before women were allowed into combat. That is, back to 2013."
Or another way of putting it, You're back to reality. Where you either meet THE standard or you do not.
I commented on an earlier post you had on this subject from a week or two ago. I'll repeat the gist of it.
Our military has been run by careerists for so long that they've created their own world that does not match what our military is there for: to break things and kill people. That is why they are there. To go up against those who would have our lives and our country.
Why wouldn't you create as elite a group of fighters as possible? What other possible reason is there to have a military?
Democrats over Obama's and Biden's terms (but I repeat myself) took it upon themselves to play college sophomore 'social justice' games with our military. It's bad enough to do it with our government, our schools and education, our corporate offices. But it is a national security crisis when it is done with our military.
Also- any great company undergoing change will bring in it's top people to listen- in person- to the word of their new bosses as to the direction the company is taking, the structure of things going forward, and the ultimate goal of the company. Pete Hegseth just did that for his team. Those who perform will be invited back. Those who do not will probably find a nice cushy position at a northeastern university.
You think you've got better things to do? Not your call.
Those same commanders would have no problem holding a similar session with all their troops to make an important message clear. That it occasionally happens to them should be nothing to complain about.
The disturbing part was Trump’s remarks on U.S cities and “the war from within.”
“The message shocked members of the U.S. military”
How pathetic is that!?!?
If you didn't meet standards you were put on an additional PT program
It was called the "Fat Boy Program" to include shame as a chief component..
“The message shocked members of the U.S. military”
Shocked but not awed? Someone left half the ammunition in the magazine.
“I want to know who and why.”
Even the Professor is taking names and kicking butt. Atta girl!
Railing is one thing. But I draw the line at fulminating or inveighing. And at least he didn't just criticize severely.
And yeah, he needed them in their seats so he knows they are perceived by him as mission-critical, and they can't claim not to have gotten the message. Parades are nice, but they are not the point of thew military.
The media has always been at least a little biased, but I don't know exactly when it became commonplace for straight news articles to routinely make unsubstantiated assertions and value judgments. The 90s, maybe? All I know is that today's publications routinely put out material that would have earned a reporter a well-deserved reprimand from an angry editor when I was a kid, if not an outright termination of employment. Then again, we no longer have "reporters", but we do have a lot of "journalists" instead.
This military does "stand downs" at the local level all the time. They resemble this meeting of Generals. Stand downs happen when there are a couple dumb mistakes in a row, such as a vehicle crashes or friendly fire incidents. In the recent DEI era, they'd happen when a couple managers lost sexual harassment lawsuits.
Price on that maneuver ? and would an email have done same thing? I know "WHAT A MAN PETE" Troop deployment ,ARGENTINA weekly golf your paying, no problem right? fiscal conservatism RIGHT?
Did they play ‘War Pigs’ before the meeting? That would have been groovy…
"its combat requirements to the “highest male standard only,” a decision that would effectively force women out of the military" Even as prog logic, that doesn't make sense: big chunks of the military do not focus on "combat." There'll be plenty to do for women.
If we're gonna slim down fat generals, how about the CiC?
"The journalists need to get in shape. Frankly, I'm getting tired of looking at their writing and seeing such shit. It’s completely unacceptable."
LOL! Quips like this are why I love Althouse, exasperatin' as she is.
I wonder what other non-obvious purposes today's meeting might have served, outside the media spotlight created by this speech?
Hidden in plain sight, away from center stage?
Hegseth ordered hundreds of U.S. military officials around the globe to meet him at a spontaneous assembly in Virginia.
Isn't a meeting that was ordered the opposite of spontaneous?
I like to think — or am terrified to think — that there were cameras trained on the faces the entire time and there is AI capable of producing a psychological profile of each person behind the face. Now Hegseth and Trump know who is loyal and who is resistant and who's an utter snake.
Now you are advocating that loyalty to the president and Defense Secretary is more important than loyalty to the constitution.
How very Orwellian of you.
...The message shocked members of the U.S. military, who could not recall another instance in which a defense secretary summoned so many commanders for a sudden in-person meeting—especially without a clear rationale.
How many and which "members of the U.S. military" were "shocked," and why were they talking to WaPo reporters about it?
LOL (Lots of Love)
JAB (JournoListic Amusement Bemusememt)
PBJ (Peanut Butter Jelly)
"Fuck Around And Find Out" should have confused about half of the attendees who don't live and die with such shortcuts as FAFO. But why in God's Earth would you endanger 800 military officers to travel and assemble to deliver such a juvenile message? Millions upon millions of dollars are being wasted, and no one is left to mind the store back home.
In the real world, the meeting was designed to pass the word that loyalty to King Trump was required. Every attendee had already pledged allegiance to the United States.
Demented Donald has indeed lost his mind. Whiskey Pete, on the other hand, doesn't deserve to be in the same room with these fine officers.
The most numerous posts I saw on Lefty X this morning were misleading clips from the Hegseth/RFK workout challenge, showing an exhausted Hegseth trying and failing to complete the very last of some 40 or 50 pull-ups he had done. All of the previous repetitions had been deliberately edited out. The lefties were full of gleefully ignorant scorn: “See? He can’t even do a single pull-up himself !!!”
Girth differences.
@gadfly: But why in God's Earth would you endanger 800 military officers to travel
How to say "I know nothing about the military" without saying you know nothing about the military.
1. A HUGE percentage of military life involves travel, often for reassignments and meetings and logistics and boring stuff. The military wastes BILLIONS on stupid travel and much more on training exercises.
2. These guys are in the military. It's a job that expressly allows killing and operating in war zones. Endangered by travel. ROFL.
Then again, a woke military is a weak military. MAGA is about making America Great Again. A weak military runs counter to that very publicly stated goal.
Very trenchant observations, Professor. Well done calling out the sloppy writing.
A ilttle earlier Hegseth ordered all units to have a single standard of fitness, geared to achievable male standards. Recruiting among women has steadily increased since then. When there is one standard, everyone knows that a woman in the military can do the job she's doing or she wouldn't be there. And this is what a self-respecting woman wants.
Althouse: It "would effectively force women out of the military" because we know women can't meet the standard that has been required for men? Quite aside from the probably unintended concession that this means biological men don't belong in women's sports, you're not "out of the military" just because you don't meet "combat requirements." At worst, you're just back to where you were before women were allowed into combat. That is, back to 2013.
I think you are wrong on this. Throughout the military there are PT standards that vary by age, and, as of now, sex. Just one example: in the Air Force, a 50 year old male is held to the same 1½ mile run standard as a 25 year old woman.
It sounds very much like that the male standard will be the only standard, and most women will not be able to pass it.
SFAIK, some combat roles — e.g: SEALs, Rangers — have even higher standards.
Also, allowing women who can't pass the standards to staff rear echelon positions because they are "non-combat" means the combat deployment role falls more heavily on the men.
It was disturbing because...because...it was scary-talk.
Rats and dagnabbit (I mean "congratulations"), Mary Beth, 1:21, you beat me to pointing out the most glaringly stupid comment in the article: "Hegseth ordered hundreds of U.S. military officials around the globe to meet him at a spontaneous assembly in Virginia."
Mary Beth: "Isn't a meeting that was ordered the opposite of spontaneous?"
Leftist dem media continue to sound like ridiculous hacks.
The US hasn’t won a war in 80 years. So these generals and admirals have nothing better to do.
Flabby minded media!
I don't think Trump or Hegseth are serious about doing what needs to be done.
This video brings up some of my concerns.
The fact that 80% generals weren't fired immediately highlights the main problem and highlights Hegseth's un-seriousness.
First The military right now is a bureaucratic monster than has grown and metastasized during periods without threat or serious conflict. It is a sprawling mess of XXXCOMMS and fiefdoms with generals playing tribal warlord all around the world. None of those commands listen to the President no matter who is in office.
Germany just said "We are no longer at peace with Russia."
Merz is the worst possible combination of dishonesty, cowardice, and arrogance. Europe is demanding to start a war with Russia. Merz, Starmer, and Macron are all facing popular uprisings and single digit approval ratings.
The US should be slapping the German government down hard right now.
We are not serious.
"The message shocked members of the U.S. military"
These are supposed to be the hardened ones. The tough guys. A meeting shocked them?
"I like to think — or am terrified to think — that there were cameras trained on the faces the entire time and there is AI capable of producing a psychological profile of each person behind the face. Now Hegseth and Trump know who is loyal and who is resistant and who's an utter snake."
Sounds like a plan!
Trump made a point of repeating the “enemies from within”theme. Maybe this meeting was called to see the reaction from the Admirals and Generals, I don’t doubt their faces were being scanned. The real question still hasn’t been answered, when Trump calls upon the military to fire deadly rounds on American citizens, how will the military react? Will they be loyal to Trump’s illegal orders or the Constitution? How do military coups happen? How long does the military take to reject Trump loyalty and choose loyalty to the Constitution?
Making war against the American people may backfire on Trump, time will tell.
Quite heartening to see our resident lefty lurkers promoting fiscal conservatism. Keep it up, guys!
Ah, and then we finally hear from the perennially logic-challenged Inga. Thanks for sharing your fantasies, very kind indeed.
As a Vietnam Veteran and a veteran of East Africa, I thoroughly loved Secretary of War Pete Hegseth's extemporaneous speech to the generals. In my eyes, he was revealed as someone who could actually do a great job as President of the United States (not that I am demeaning in any way JD or Marco)!
Hey Skipper said...
Althouse: It "would effectively force women out of the military" because we know women can't meet the standard that has been required for men? Quite aside from the probably unintended concession that this means biological men don't belong in women's sports, you're not "out of the military" just because you don't meet "combat requirements." At worst, you're just back to where you were before women were allowed into combat. That is, back to 2013.
Also, allowing women who can't pass the standards to staff rear echelon positions because they are "non-combat" means the combat deployment role falls more heavily on the men.
When the deployment orders for a unit were announced the rate of pregnancy among female soldiers in those units was shocking.
Military units train as a team. When the Unit deploys the readiness level is in part rated by the redundancy of personnel in key roles. When 50-80% of the females in the unit get pregnant within a week of deployment orders coming out it just trashes the whole system.
This is why Tim Walz was viewed as a traitor to his Unit.
The army is lowest common denominator. The Weakest Link in a unit is the effective readiness level of the unit.
The problem with allowing women in military units is that it necessarily lowers the standards for all people in the combat zone and you can no longer trust the person next to you to do their job.
Inga said...
Trump made a point of repeating the “enemies from within”theme. Maybe this meeting was called to see the reaction from the Admirals and Generals, I don’t doubt their faces were being scanned.
Anyone in the army that supports killing Charlie Kirk or banning conservatives from social media should be removed from the army because they are not Americans.
But why in God's Earth would you endanger 800 military officers to travel and assemble to deliver such a juvenile message? Millions upon millions of dollars are being wasted, and no one is left to mind the store back home.
How did this cost "millions upon millions?" If they traveled by military aircraft, those planes were flying anyhow, just with one more passenger. Otherwise, it is just some routine commercial flights. You can't count their salaries, they would have been getting paid wherever they were. Overblown nonsense.
Also, making them physically show up was certainly a big part of the message, a reminder of who is in charge. If you disagree with the elected civilian President and his congressionally-approved cabinet member being in charge of the military, you are a part of the problem.
No beardos. No weirdos.
Col. Vindman was fat. Just saying.
'The journalists need to get in shape. Frankly, I'm getting tired of looking at their writing and seeing such shit. It’s completely unacceptable....'
time to call them into classroom for althouseathon!
does UW have big classroom? or use the sports stadium
Mark said...
"Was it worth the time and expense bringing all those people there from across the globe for what we saw?
I dont see the value"
Oh, NOW you're worried about the expense. You weren't so concerned about the cost of having millions of illegals in this country.
I got news for you. These are generals and admirals. They fly tens of thousands of hours anyway every year on our dime.
Hey Skipper said...
SFAIK, some combat roles — e.g: SEALs, Rangers — have even higher standards.
All combat units have a much different standard. You are absolutely dependent on the people around you to live. It is really hard for people who have never been in a combat unit to understand.
There is no "live and let live." If someone is falling out on a run or a ruck march they are defining the capability of the Unit they are in.
I maxed out the PT tests. That didn't matter at all. Our unit could only infil and exfil to target as fast as the slowest person.
My last deployment they forced us to take women with us because they wouldn't let us search the women in the villages and they would constantly hide things in their vaginas. We tried out several women and several missions were spent waiting for women with plates only and us carrying all their other stuff to keep up.
If you did your job and did everything right, you could still get killed because the person behind you or in front of you fucked up. You are not supposed to say some things. In combat situations almost all women are just unreliable. They are just not wired correctly for what the military needs in a soldier in combat.
This is why Tim Walz was viewed as a traitor to his Unit.
===
he got pregnant? I did not know!
DINKY DAU 45 said...
"Price on that maneuver ? and would an email have done same thing? "
I can tell you led anything. Good news or bad news you gather your people in one place and you tell to their face. Now everybody in that room knows exactly what the mission is and exactly what is expected of them. Nobody can claim they didn't get the Email. That's what leadership is.
If the bosses (Trump & Hegseth) made them show up in person, I hope each participant was required to personally sign an agreement to comply with the new guidelines or face dishonorable discharge. A few witnesses for each signatory would be a nice touch.
The disturbing part is talk of redeploying the military to US cities.
did they |pipe| the show to all local venues?
wish MelBrooks was available to showrunner
hanuman_prodigious_leaper said...
This is why Tim Walz was viewed as a traitor to his Unit.
===
he got pregnant? I did not know!
His unit deployed. He betrayed them and bailed out of combat.
Even better he claimed he went to combat afterwards.
Women who got pregnant to get out of deployment were more honest than he was about shirking duty.
Anyone who supports or votes for Tim Walz is a piece of shit.
"We tried out several women and several missions were spent waiting for women with plates only and us carrying all their other stuff to keep up."
Like I said earlier, I was in a combat support unit. But we would occasionally do ruck marches, and every time the men would end up carrying the women's rucks. That is until a jeep or two and half ton truck came by and picked up the rucks. This isn't a dig at women. It is biological reality. Men are built to be able to carry a lot more weight than a women is. You might as well expect a woman to sprout wings and fly as to keep up with men on a ruck march.
Achilles — I was in the (ch)Air Force, retired in 2000. I don't recall taking fitness tests, although we did have to pass BMI standards. Apparently, that has changed. There is now a fitness test, and the standards are going up in 2026.
The AF is different — almost all the combatants are officers. In- and exfil was as fast as the airplane would go.
One of the reasons the military is the way it is now is because it has people like Tim Walz in it.
He was a fat lazy turd who collected paychecks until it was time to deploy. Then he bailed out.
Many of the Generals in that room act like he did before he fucked his unit over.
Hey Skipper said...
Achilles — I was in the (ch)Air Force, retired in 2000. I don't recall taking fitness tests, although we did have to pass BMI standards. Apparently, that has changed. There is now a fitness test, and the standards are going up in 2026.
The AF is different — almost all the combatants are officers. In- and exfil was as fast as the airplane would go.
I assume the AF has role dependent standards.
The pilot officers were usually in good shape. At least as good as RegArmy infantry.
PJ's on the other hand were elite. They were all faster than me on the runs. I also saw the Air Force running team at Airborne school. I got smoked by a woman at the Airborne PT test on the run.
She snapped both of her legs above the ankle on the first jump. She almost certainly lawn darted the jump which means you freak out and reach for the ground with your feet.
I had been through basic by then so I had seen a lot of messed up stuff by then but that event taught me a lot about how the military actually works and the lowest common denominator nature of the system.
They don't need you to be the best at jumping out of a plane with a parachute on you. They just need you to not snap both ankles.
When I was in Ranger Battalion the requirement was 90% on the APFT. ~65 pushups and ~70 situps in 2 minutes. ~12:45 on the 2 mile to stay in.
You didn't really get to go to Ranger school until you maxed. 72/77/12:00. On the other hand we actually had to do a 5 mile for that so our team required a 35-36 minute 5 mile.
It was a point of unit pride that our privates maxed out the PT test at school.
I find it disturbing that asking our flag staff to return to the US and have a conference with the civilian leadership is somehow problematic.
I love the fact that Hegseth ordered all these guys to show up for morning formation in DC. Hegseth is right below the President in the chain of command. When he tells the Generals to jump their only response should be "How high, sir?"
A "newspaper of record" ought to report the facts as such, but people don't go to the New Republic for the facts. They go there for the spin. In so far as the article tells you not what happened but what you ought to think about what happened, it's done its job.
The Vindman twins were Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber.
Achilles said...
If someone can’t even bother to do 50 push-ups and run a couple miles a day it’s really hard to trust them With your life.
9/30/25, 12:55 PM
In some roles, absolutely. At the same time, you can either have IT staff in the military or risk outsourcing it- and look at the Snowden sized risks of that. There are some skills that don't necessarily require peak physical conditioning, especially as you get older.
But then I doubt that was the main purpose of this. President Trump is likely to cut any number of woke or traitor generals from the service and he is absolutely right to do so. Fat is just the convenient excuse.
Germany just said "We are no longer at peace with Russia."
Are they still buying their oil?
and no one is left to mind the store back home.
Heh, one of the few organizations in the world that could suffer a decapitation strike of top level leadership and continue on with the daily grind without missing a beat is the US military. The sheer organizational inertia it has is mind boggling.
Now, a virus that takes out email and is spread through powerpoint... that is a different story!
Michael Fitzgerald said...
Germany just said "We are no longer at peace with Russia."
Are they still buying their oil?
+1.
The whole situation is just a joke. None of these people are serious. Nothing happening right now in the west is serious. Merz can't be removed from power fast enough.
All of these people want Russia and China to win.
Ampersand said...
"Railing is one thing. But I draw the line at fulminating or inveighing. And at least he didn't just criticize severely" Thank you ampersand. you made me laugh out loud. It kinda startled the dog.
Was it worth the time and expense bringing all those people there from across the globe for what we saw?
Yes. Because some people need to be told straight to their faces they're fuck-ups. And they'd best get it right or they're gone.
doctrev said...
But then I doubt that was the main purpose of this. President Trump is likely to cut any number of woke or traitor generals from the service and he is absolutely right to do so. Fat is just the convenient excuse.
I agree for the most part.
That is why I don't think Hegseth and Trump are serious about this. They are looking for pretense.
They need to stop justifying doing the right thing with stupidity like this. Most of the flag officers that are in shape are still worthless bureaucrats.
Just come out and say that Obama purged the Army of war fighters and installed a corrupt politically motivated leadership cadre that hate the country.
Seven Days in October
• Plot: A low-seniority LVN discovers evidence of a physical fitness directive and promotes a military coup against the duly-elected President, who is pushing for a chance to lower the crime rate and help make blue cities livable again.
• Stars: George Clowny, Steve Buscemi, and Tilda Swinton as Iggy
(Unless Hegseth pronounced "FAFO" as a single word, it's not an "acronym." It's an initialism. And that's something else wrong with the article.)
And this is called “ridiculously pedantic.”
Achilles: The pilot officers were usually in good shape. At least as good as RegArmy infantry.
Had to be. Flight suits aren't flab concealing.
Oh, and I made it through Airborne. I have great respect for Rangers.
The disturbing part was Trump’s remarks on U.S cities and “the war from within.”
Well, how would you describe the relentless - and lethal- attacks on federal facilities and ICE agents?
When on duty, the generals are big man on campus. Seeing them all in a classroom setting paying attention to the boss might have the effect of making them feel less important, and easier to dismiss.
It's "disturbing", because the writer didn't want to use "fascist" or "Nazi" today, and it does describe the way he feels about anything to do with Trump. That's all it really is. A writer staying cool with his drinking buddies.
"you can either have IT staff in the military or risk outsourcing it- and look at the Snowden sized risks of that. There are some skills that don't necessarily require peak physical conditioning, especially as you get older."
Hey, I resent that. I was IT in the army and I did at least 50 pushups and ran a couple of miles every day.
I'm pretty sure it's an acronym. Nobody's going to say Eff-Ay-Eff-Oh when they can just say FAFO.
Trump made a point of repeating the “enemies from within” theme.
And I'll ask you the same question: How would you describe the relentless - and lethal- attacks on federal facilities and ICE agents?
Also, Snowden wasn't IT. He was an intelligence analyst. And don't get me started on how screwed up the security was on the systems he was using. The computers had cd drives on them and were write enabled! When I was in the army desktop computers that stored classified data did so on removable hard drives that were signed in and out of secure vaults. Mainframes were located in rooms that acted as faraday cages. The complete lack of protection against data exfiltration makes me think that the higher ups wanted data to be leaked.
Inga said…"The real question still hasn’t been answered, when Trump calls upon the military to fire deadly rounds on American citizens, how will the military react?"
What citizens would those be?
What are you talking about?
she just throws monkey scat against the wall see if it sticks,
like denying bella ciao and fascist catch are antifa signifiers,
yes it was like trw and the boyce case, it seems they forgot all the old lessons, opsec was just terrible, in those facilities,
The question isn’t just “Who was disturbed?” but whether we’ve become so used to political theater that even the military’s silence in the face of it no longer disturbs us.
Jim at said...
The disturbing part was Trump’s remarks on U.S cities and “the war from within.”
Well, how would you describe the relentless - and lethal- attacks on federal facilities and ICE agents?
Insurrection. Sedition. Treason.
Add in Conspiracy, RICO, and Aiding and Abetting.
Ron Winkleheimer said...
Also, Snowden wasn't IT. He was an intelligence analyst. And don't get me started on how screwed up the security was on the systems he was using. The computers had cd drives on them and were write enabled! When I was in the army desktop computers that stored classified data did so on removable hard drives that were signed in and out of secure vaults. Mainframes were located in rooms that acted as faraday cages. The complete lack of protection against data exfiltration makes me think that the higher ups wanted data to be leaked.
If we put a thumb drive in a USB port on a SIPR or above someone was behind us before it opened while overseas.
On the other hand by my 2nd or 3rd deployment we all had multi-TB flash drives for the I: drive on the NIPR networks. We would download a lot of music, movies and TV content.
I'm retired Navy CPO, one son Major USAR, one CAPT USAR, another former USA Spec4- his wife SGT. None of us see any problem with Hegseth and Trump calling this meetup and what they addressed. In fact, among our peers- all approve of what Hegseth and Trump said. I can see that on X and Facebook. To not coin a phrase- seems all the right people are complaining and have a problem with it.
On what Ann Althouse said: I like to think — or am terrified to think — that there were cameras trained on the faces the entire time and there is AI capable of producing a psychological profile of each person behind the face. Now Hegseth and Trump know who is loyal and who is resistant and who's an utter snake., well, WOW! That's beyond anything anyone was talking about before the meeting. And- totally possible... We truly live in interesting times.
I put in security for infrastructure systems beginning 25 years ago. Our networks were split between public and operational, the operational ones were air-gapped, and then additionally secured in layers (post-Stuxnet). I understood (from our vendors) that DOD systems were similarly categorized and secured, I may have been wrong. Since I retired five years ago I understand that the operational networks have continued to be "armored". These are industrial infrastructure systems but I find it hard to believe that DOD systems are less secure.
The NFL - players are REQUIRED to stay at a level of fitness in order to play, stay competitive and keep their jobs.
Why not our military?
after the disaster in kabul which no doubt prompt putin to increase mobilizations and probably expedited hamas callendere, all involved should have resigned and perhaps should have taken further steps, the loss of billions of equipment, the 13 lives at Abbey Gate, that is real drama
I was invited to the RSA conferences (friends) in 2023 and 2024, I made it in 2024. Things seemed to be about where I left my career professionally. I doubt the DOD was more or less au courant than the vendors clients last year.
Hegseth Rising! He has thrown the gauntlet down before his adversaries. It will be interesting to see how effective they are in meeting his challenge. His speech was remarkable not only in terms of its content but its delivery. Hegseth's grand objective, to turn around the culture of a huge organization, makes the modest aims of most speeches pale in comparison. Leaders not only direct and inform, they must demonstrate by their own example the qualities they seek in those they command. Hegseth, stand up and take not a salute but a bow!
I assume that some of the generals at Hegseths meeting are in fact the sort of chair bound fellows like me, doing the same things I was at the time.
We also serve who sit and manage, no matter that we may be a bit old and portly.
Those guys may have a Generals rank but their functions are exactly those of we private industry middle management sorts. No ribbons and brass, but similar work and similar responsibilities.
I can't do Hegseths pull-ups and couldn't then either, nor could my private industry contemporaries. We probably should have been, I would likely be feeling better these days.
Were the military leaders disturbed?
he said that Generals should NOT be fatty fatties.
he implied (well, explicitly stated), that being a 374 lb transwoman is NOT the Very Model of a Modern Major-General
we are rapidly approaching an era where the purpose of the Dept of War will NOT be to promote wokism
is THAT what YOU voted for?
@Gospace .... @Professora
cameras and Palantir === CTH Sundance would be go to guy
To encourage the others:
"ON MARCH 14, 1757, Royal Navy Vice Admiral John Byng boarded his flagship HMS Monarch for what would be the last time.
As the 52-year-old officer waited on the quarterdeck in the company of nine marine guards, instructions were passed to all the men-of-war at anchor nearby in Spithead to dispatch their officers to the 74-gun ship of the line to witness the spectacle that had been planned.
As the clock struck twelve, a captain by the name of John Montagu stepped forward from the small crowd that had assembled on the Monarch to inform Byng that it was time — the admiral’s execution was at hand.
Byng took his place beside a green velvet cushion, which was set in the middle of an open canvas. With his own two hands, he arranged a blindfold over his eyes then knelt as six marines levelled their muskets at him. Byng clutched a red and white handkerchief, which after a moment’s pause he dropped to the ground. It was the pre-arranged signal to open fire. The marines immediately discharged their muskets at their kneeling commander. As smoke filled the quarterdeck, Byng fell to the deck dead. He would be the last admiral to be executed in the history of the Royal Navy.
Sentenced to death for failing to “do his utmost” at the disastrous Battle of Minorca...Byng’s role in the Minorca fiasco led to what was darkly termed in the Royal Navy the “Byng Principle,” which meant that “nothing is to be undertaken where there is risk or danger.”
This sardonic term served as a cautionary reminder to naval officers of the sort of conduct that should be avoided in battle. And just or not, Byng’s death was to instill in them an aggressive fighting spirit that would succeed in turning the war in favour of Britain.
Following the execution of Byng, a new fighting spirit appeared among the navy. No officer wanted to be accused of following the “Byng Principle” and instead chose to take aggressive action whenever facing the enemy."
https://militaryhistorynow.com/2018/04/15/to-encourage-the-others-admirals-byngs-execution-was-a-grim-warning-to-royal-navy-officers-do-your-utmost/
As I heard it, Hegseth said the letters "F", "A", "F", "O" and not the word "fafo".
The View Idiot-ladies
"How Dare He Fat shame our military"
This is why our nation swirls down the 'stupid' toilet.
What did Trump mean today when he said "We want war because we want to have no wars". WHO does he want war with? His own people or a foreign country?
@brylun As I heard it, Hegseth said the letters "F", "A", "F", "O" and not the word "fafo".
I didn't listen and I'm not going to.
Saying "fahfoh" or "faughfough" sounds like falafel or a middle eastern dessert. The common expression is F.A.F.O. Few would understand it unless the letters were separated.
Kunafa
Maamoul
Halva
Basbousa
Mahalabia
Baklava
Qatayef
Zalabia
etc.
our enemies whether in Tehran Beijing or Moscow, are not about pronouns or intersectionality, as much as those are first world problems we indulge that at our peril
I watched both speeches live this morning. Hegseth's "F.A.F.O." was not intended for the flag officers in the audience, but explicitly for our adversaries who might think about testing us. As for anyone in the audience being "shocked" at the message, that alone would be reason enough to remove them; any general or admiral who didn't have the foresight to see what this speech was going to be about obviously shouldn't be in a leadership position.
As others have noted, the responses that I've seen from my fellow veterans have been almost uniformly positive. We agree with Hegseth that our military has lost its way, and that it is right and proper to take the necessary measures to get it back on track. "Personnel is policy." Those who don't want to get with the program should find another line of work.
“ WHO does he want war with? His own people or a foreign country?”
Hamas, Antifa, drug cartels, and every Democrat who supports them.
“…and every Democrat who supports them.”
So, fellow Americans. Meade, that’s un-American.
Perhaps those fat generals have certain virtues, such as that they know what they are doing, can keep their egos in check, and don't cheat on their wives.
Also I know of no Democrats who supports Hamas and drug cartels.
Good. Now tell all your Democrat friends to stop supporting Antifa. Thanks.
Meade, Antifa has a right under our Consitution to protest. If they are breaking laws during that protest, then they can be arrested and jailed. Democrats support the right of Americans to protest.
“Antifa has a right under our Consitution to protest.“
Peacefully and patriotically, Inga. Peacefully and patriotically.
“If they are breaking laws during that protest, then they can be arrested and jailed.”
The problem with that is that the miscreants commit their criminal violence in blue cities, so they are let off with a slap on their limp, misshapen wrists by the moronic, Open Society-funded prosecutors.
Igna… it is plain that you speak from the heart rather than the head.
All sorts of Democrats support Hamas. All sorts.
Meade, protesting in itself is patriotic, protected under the First Amendment, as I’m sure you know.
The situation is definitely serious. But with Trump there is always a lot more noise than substance. If you are going to try to achieve maximalist goals, you still have to prioritize and pick your battles carefully. The fact that Trump surrounds himself with TV personalities, political opportunists, and some of the biggest losers in America, based almost exclusively on their personal loyalty to him, is an approach that has some significant downsides given the magnitude of his personal ambition.
This is one of the problems in having a president who has lived every day of his life on borrowed credit and who has never made an honest cent in his life. Trump operates from the assumption that he can do anything he wants using other people's money without adding a cent of value. For the time being there are enormous and growing costs still being imposed on others. However, no one lives and operates on unlimited credit. This is true even for the nominal "leader" of the most powerful nation in world history. Trump is incurring debts with putative allies that are going to result in a collection call sooner or later. Put yourselves in the shoes of the military leaders who are called in for this nonsense, or National Guard members who are missing time from their ordinary lives and families for this nonsense. The people who are OK with this, are going to tend to be the most deranged and morally bankrupt imbeciles in world history. They can do a lot of damage in the short-term, but on balance the kind of people who open up a seven front war, don't achieve long-term victories.
Protest is a right, just like bearing arms. That doesn't mean doing either one is patriotic on its own. It depends on what you are doing with it.
Antifa(D) hide who they are - with their all-black garb, and their masks.
They take over areas of cities and make bystanders feel unsafe. They threaten, DOXX, behave like actual fascists.
They are democratic party thugs.
Proof all over the place. Here is one. Read the whole thing. Video proof enough for you dingbat leftists?
Watch the nice D-Socialist aid criminal behavior.
Leftwing protesting - all the way up to harassment, assault, arson - Doxxing, rock throwing, vandalism, life-threatening... is all A-OK.
Terrified to know where the snakes are? That seems like a significant weakness not conducive to preparedness and it's potential defense of our nation.
No Democrats support Hamas? lol!
Meade, protesting in itself is patriotic
Only because the Dems are currently out of power.
"Meade, protesting in itself is patriotic"
But walking around peacefully taking selfies earns you a prison cell when Democrats are in charge.
In my inauspicious military career, I saw two Colonel (O-6s) forced into retirement for "penciling" their PT tests. They faked them. That was 20+ years ago. We need to bring that back.
Inga said..."Also I know of no Democrats who supports Hamas"
Well, that's just flat out absurd.
nga said...
“…and every Democrat who supports them.”
So, fellow Americans. Meade, that’s un-American.
People who supported the Biden Regime forcing twitter, youtube, and facebook to kick conservatives off social media are not Americans.
People who support gun control are not Americans.
They do not support the Constitution. You took our first amendment rights the first chance you got and they have been trying to take our second amendment rights without cease. Democrats are against the foundational principles of our country.
That is why they shot Kirk.
What did Trump mean today when he said "We want war because we want to have no wars". WHO does he want war with? His own people or a foreign country?
You totally misunderstood him, as expected from someone of your limited intellect who gets her understanding of reality from the women on the View.
The whole quote, in context, was this:
"As Secretary Hicks has beautifully described, the name change reflects far more than the shift in branding. It’s really a historic reassertion of our purpose and our identity and our pride. That’s when we go with the word War. And, you know, we want War because we want to have no wars."
He was quite plainly talking about renaming the Department of Defense to the Department of War. When he said "We want War" he was speaking of the word in the title of the department, not the actual waging of warfare.
Quite the opposite. It's a signal to our would-be enemies that we are taking warfighting seriously again, and getting rid of the diversity commissars and grievance mongers and fat lesbians who have been polluting the military and degrading its efficiency. It's a threat to aggressors, and it is meant to be, and it will go a long way towards keeping us out of war, because weaklings and cowards will always be attacked by bullies and thugs.
One can make the case that Hitler started World War II because the pusillanimous Oxford Union, representing the cream of the British upper class, voted for pacifism under all circumstances, and PM Neville Chamberlain was a weakling and an appeaser in his pre-war dealings with Hitler. If Churchill had already been in power, and issuing similar veiled threats, it's unlikely Hitler would have dared to invade Poland.
It's a restatement of a maxim that has been around since antiquity. It was most famously expressed by Vegetius in the late Imperial period of Rome: Si vis pacem, para bellum. -- If you want peace, prepare for war. But thinkers and doers, from Plato to Teddy Roosevelt, have expressed the same idea on innumerable occasions.
I don't expect the likes of you to have ever heard any of this before, nor to have even the dimmest understanding of why it's significant. But be assured, our men in uniform got the message loud and clear, and at every rank below bird colonel, they have been cheering for it wildly.
I spent five months at Fort Polk in 1969--from late April to September. While I was in a National Guard mechanized infantry company in California, I went through Basic and AIT as a light weapons infantryman at Polk. In AIT I was part of a battalion on 1,000 men. With the exception of a few National Guard troops, all but one of those men was going to get orders to go to Viet Nam. One guy in my company got orders to Germany--all the rest to Nam. The battalion was out on a road march in late August. Louisiana is hot and sticky in the summer. We weren't carrying much--only our rifles. But guys were falling out, puking by the side of the road. My company was in the lead, and I was marching immediately behind a drill sergeant who'd been in the military for almost 30 years--since Guadalcanal. Most of us were soaked in sweat, but Sergeant Gonzale's starched uniform was dry--he was setting the pace for the battalion
In the infantry fitness is important--and guys who couldn't keep up in Louisiana sure couldn't keep up in Viet Nam carrying an 80 or 100 pound ruck. In any event the colonel eventually came along and told Gonzales to slow down. What the heck we were doing just fine--mostly.
"I don't expect the likes of you to have ever heard any of this before, nor to have even the dimmest understanding of why it's significant."
One thing's for sure- someone whose worldview is dependent upon not understanding isn't going to ever understand why it's significant.
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