Her fortnightly teas became so popular that she tried to restrict the crowd by decreeing that henceforward no dancing would be permitted, but Washington society came and insisted on dancing. Washington now had a little bit of the dazzle the Adamses had known in foreign capitals. When Congress was in session, balls and fine dinners were held almost every night. The most magnificent house in Washington had been empty since its owner, Commodore Stephen Decatur, the great naval hero of the War of 1812, had been killed in a foolish duel in March 1820. But now Baron Hyde de Neuville had purchased the three-story mansion on Lafayette Square and threw splendid parties there. For a time, the Adams house was filled with music and dancing and even giggling and flirting.... A dancing master came for as much as three hours a day to teach all the young folk.
Key words: almost every night. Nowadays, it seems you only hear of balls — the dancing kind of balls (not the "Big Balls" kind of balls) — during inaugurations. I'd like to see Trump's new ballroom used for dancing, and perhaps he's the person to get people dancing. It took a person to incite all that dancing that was going on in Washington circa 1820. Of course, the person was not John Quincy Adams, and it wasn't his wife Louisa. It was Dolley Madison.
By they way, where did John Travolta and Princess Diana dance? It was in The Cross Hall (the Entrance Hall) in the White House, which is 18' by 80' — kind of awkward, but there were only 80 guests. In 1,440 square feet.
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116 comments:
Somewhere between 200x450 and 300x300.
Trying to compare it to the nearby Home Depot. Seems smaller than that. Maybe more like Michaels or Joann Fabric?
YMCA: https://youtu.be/TfNyJky6EUc
I tend to say that whatever else is going on with Trump, he seems to be having an absolute ball. Of course fools on line say this goes back to "having balls," displaying manhood--they only learn one thing in Women's Studies. The real source is balls, dancing (from Latin), somewhat courtly but physical fun, seeing potential love interests in a unique light. But no doubt Trump will go with the balls thing as well.
The ballroom is going to be 1 1/2 football fields? Proportional to the Cross Hall, that would hold 5000 people.
Some space will be lost to bathrooms and kitchen, but still, that's gigantic.
If he could get America dancing again, that would be a true renaissance, bigly! Melania could waltz with Putin and bring about world peace. I kid you not. More of this pleez. And the Dems would have to condemn dancing and merriment in all its forms. Win-win.
If you look at the famous photos of Princess Diana dancing w/John Travolta, they are actually dancing *as a pair*- doing some classic ballroom moves. I think balls starting going away when people stopped dancing *with* each other and started dancing *at* each other. I think that's been the case in most of the western nations.
Personally, I'd like to see actual ballroom dance make a big comeback.
There were references to the Gilded Age yesterday in some post, and a comment that equated us to the Roaring 2020s, probably quite accurately. And here Althouse has reached back to balls!
Everything old is new again? The Four Hundred with the amusing facts surrounding it. Ward McAllister was already being set up by the media of the day -- look, it was the New York Times, what do you think of that? Bad idea for the rich and prominent to talk to a newspaperman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Hundred_(Gilded_Age)
"Let me explain, don't you know. There are three dinner dances, don't you know, during the season, and the invitations, don't you see, are issued to different ladies and gentlemen each time, do you understand? So at each dinner dance, you know, are only 150 people of the highest set, don't you know. So, during the season, you see, 400 different invitations are issued."
One of the fun things about living in Texas is that people dance. Specifically they two-step. Some are really good, some are ok, some are obviously counting and watching their feet (I'm one of these), but any place that can be used as a dance floor will have dancers when a good two-step song is played.
My favorite venue - the Houston Rodeo wine garden main stage dance floor. It's only about 20x30 or so, but it's filled most of the time.
This could get awkward fast with Democratic inclusion of queer sexual orientations (e.g. pedophiles, transgenders, polygamists, sadomasochists, etc.). Rusty?! No.
Isn't there a problem with having a bigger building delegate the White House to, I don't know, a guest house?
Trump wants to have MMA fights there.
After hearing Ginger Rogers speak in that clip, I googled about what her ‘normal’ speaking accent was, and came across Tik-Tok information from a voice actor explaining the “Transatlantic” accent - a made-up accent very common among the posh actors of the silver screen back at that time. Fascinating.
during the recession, obama had a concert, every week, and the press marvelled at his glory, while the city collapsed into one of the lesser hunger games districts, now that he is actually trying to revitalize the Capitol out come the complaints,
Do we really think the 90,000 square feet added to the White House will remain a ballroom forever and not eventually be converted into more office space?
Might be silly, but I like to think a small, cramped White House subconsciously helps slow the growth in the federal government. There’s just not enough room to administer too many new programs.
The next Dem elected after Trump will proudly tear out the chandeliers, install cubicles and launch an alphabet soup of new govt bureaucracies.
Eleanor Roosevelt had the square dances across the street in the Treasury building.
90,000 sq ft is over 2 acres. That's pretty big, even on the scale of the White House, so I hope they get the proportions right.
I heard a few days ago that there's going to be a UFC event at the White House, so they're bringing back the fights. Maybe when it's done, they'll have a couple of episodes of 'Dancing With The Stars' filmed there. That should make all the right heads explode.
CJinPA said...
Might be silly, but I like to think a small, cramped White House subconsciously helps slow the growth in the federal government. There’s just not enough room to administer too many new programs.
This is a good tangent to follow.
My reposte would be that I would like to see DC become largely ceremonial with most division headquarters for domestic agencies spread around the country while DC became a place to host foreign dignitaries and celebrate national holidays.
Aggie said...
I heard a few days ago that there's going to be a UFC event at the White House, so they're bringing back the fights. Maybe when it's done, they'll have a couple of episodes of 'Dancing With The Stars' filmed there. That should make all the right heads explode.</b.
This seems like the right path to me.
Less business in the capitol, more building of the social fabric and shared cultural experiences.
Spread the business of ruling out around the country. Focus on shared identity in the capitol.
My left pinky finger is jammed and not hitting the shift key sometimes. =(
Trump: We need a world class place for state dinners.
Dems: Our numbers show the frequency of state dinners is declining at the fastest rate in history...and you're a Nazi!
Wouldn't that be nice -- actual dancing in the White House, the kind that calls for a dancing master to teach the steps and the etiquette? A new age of refined manners could be born, assuming, of course, that having refined manners is a good thing.
Dancing masters of John Quincy's day also taught fencing. America still had a dueling tradition in 1825, though county ordinances against dueling were widespread. American duelists preferred pistols over swords, perhaps because there weren't enough dancing masters to promote their use. The infamous Sandbar Fight of 1827 took place where it did because the Mississippi River was neutral ground. Sandbars came and went with the seasons, and county authorities had no jurisdiction over them. The formal duel that preceded the fight was attended by Jim Bowie, acting as a second to one of the duelists. That encounter ended amicably with pistols discharged harmlessly and a handshake between the antagonists. Then, a deadly brawl erupted between seconds and supporters on both sides. Bowie was impaled on a sword wielded by Norris Wright, a longstanding rival of Bowie's who had shot and wounded him months before. Using a knife--perhaps the famous one, probably not--Bowie killed Norris in self-defence.
So, maybe a White House ballroom with balls might not be a good thing. On the other hand, if Adam Schiff's miserable career ended with his festering brain shot through by a bullet fired by Trump from twenty paces, that might be more seemly than his being butt-raped in prison.
Why? Why not?
The Rolling Stones - Bob Wills Is Still The King
Odd how the left is screaming.... isn't their core constituency the white women who just devour Jane Austin and Regency novels? And Balls and "The Season" are super important to all of that.... wouldn't all of these women want it to come back?
But it's Trump, so "REEEEEE We must hate it and denounce the Dictator!!!!!"
Time for more Che Guevara shirts to show how much the left loves the people, I guess.... Old Che is surely a moral exemplar the left loves.
When I went to Lampassas Texas for the eclipse last year there was a band playing that was billed as Bob Wills And The Texas Playboys. Played all the familiar songs Bob Wills songs and sounded great, but isn't Bob Wills long dead? And yes, there was lots of dancing going on.
Big Balls in Cowtown by Bob Wills seems appropriate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeMWfjWe_dY
Haha, and none of these dorks knows how to dance.
Wilbur
Gmta. I was thinking of Bob and cow town when I read the post
They're going to turn it into a homeless shelter in the next administration, ann. Don't look now, but the country has problems.
Old and slow
It don't matter who's in Austin, Bob wills is still the king.
Thanks, Waylon.
Yesterday's YouTube rabbit hole led quickly to an hour plus of Asleep at the Wheel at evereaux a couple years ago. Ray looking very old cootish, Katy shore on fiddle, ginny Mac on keeand the wonderful Italian steel guitarist.
Lots of Bob wills classics of course I downloaded the audio track!
John Henry
We've been seeing balls since Butler.
(had to)
It would be perfect as a home for the DC unhoused. It could bring the outdoor drug market indoors.
who has the biggest balls of all?
https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/dc-home-rule-madhouses-and-choices
includes marc maron stupid,
Fred Astaire's piano playing looked awfully realistic and well-synchronized to the tune, so I had to look it up. Yup - he played piano well. The licks shown in this clip looked pretty tricky, stride piano and all - apparently it's probably not Astaire playing, the studio would have dubbed in the music track in production - but he was good enough where he could actually play it out realistically for the scene. He was impressive.
JQA was a scholarly, maybe even dour sort, but his wife sounds like a really live wire. I wonder if she and Abigail managed to get along.
The Gilded Age is back and now it has Black people, and probably even gays, in it. Does that mean it wasn't that bad?
The usual suspects should stop complaining. Ask any of them, each one is confident a Democrat will return to the White House in 2029. That future president can use the space as well. In 90,000 square feet, xe/xem/xyr will be able host transexual strip shows for 18,000 preschoolers with room to spare. (OTOH, 18,000 would be a bit tight if the kids were expected to insert their tip money.)
The first ball should be a "So Much Winning" ball, just to celebrate having a great time MAGA.
well he was legacy, the type of white toga aristocrat, as opposed to the dirty commoner andrew jackson,
played by anthony hopkins in amadeus,
I always thought dancing masters were just dancing instructors. People would send their kids, or go themselves, to learn to dance the various popular dances of the day. Like an Arthur Murray Studio. Remember those?
A month or so I was reading some book, can't remember which, about England in the 19th century. It talked briefly about dancing masters and mentioned that they also attended the balls themselves.
Not as guests but as hired help. They would be on the dance floor nagging the guests into proper dancing.
John Henry
It'll be like saturday night fever, only 7 days a week. And with Trump and Melanie doing disco.
Andrew Jackson wasn't a dancer. He was a duelist.
The radical Progressive Soviet-D left are so insane - I bet they will bulldoze and wrecking ball the place.
Just like they do with our nation.
Jemmy and Dolley Madison -- similar to JQA and Louisa (or JA and Abigail).
Mismatched, or "opposites attract"?
I’d like to see some of that but now we’re obligating the hos and invited guests to get with the program. Ew. Were we all impressed by Democrats dancing in all those inappropriate places? Also, Vienna looked pretty but twas really blood sport, wasn’t it?
Aggie, check this out. Fred could play stride piano. https://youtu.be/8hTLZz2hUOA?si=gGMd7hDbuu-6_OSc
America’s balls are always bouncing
and our ballroom's always full
and everybody comes and comes again!
If your name is on the guest list
No one can take you higher
Everybody says we’ve got
Great balls of fire!
I’ve capitualted…
Those who think bigger is better should read Churchill’s advice on rebuilding the House of Commons after it was destroyed in World War 2.
Thank you FunkyPhD
One way to get everyone dancing is to play "YMCA" at high volume.
Hell, Leland. I posted before I read the comments.
CJinPA: You are probably correct. Very depressing thought.
To paraphrase Churchill, if a space is enormous nine-tenths of events will be conducted in the depressing atmosphere of an almost empty or half-empty room.
CJ in PA--maybe Trump wants to build a ballroom before the Dems build more office space--a fait accompli.
Lazarus: From everything I have read, they did manage to eventually get along after Abigail got over her daughter-in-law being raised in and accustomed to the pomp of wealthy England.
Of course, it was Dolly Madison. She brought the cookies.
I'm just going to leave this here. NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WwJ6OVSwkM&list=RD4WwJ6OVSwkM&start_radio=1
Fred Astaire's piano playing looked awfully realistic and well-synchronized to the tune, so I had to look it up. Yup - he played piano well. The licks shown in this clip looked pretty tricky, stride piano and all - apparently it's probably not Astaire playing, the studio would have dubbed in the music track in production - but he was good enough where he could actually play it out realistically for the scene. He was impressive.
It was very impressive indeed, and I chased the same rabbit since I had no idea that Astaire could play that well. It's undoubtedly the case that the actual music was dubbed since that was invariably the practice in studio musicals. But the question is whether or not he was actually playing the piece while filmed or whether it was meticulously choreographed.
Astaire was legendary for his preparation. He would often stop production for many days prior to filming a dance sequence. It would not be out of character for him to do the same to practice the appearance of a piano performance. At the 26 second mark of the I Won't Dance performance, there is an ascending left hand run that I don't see him play. When I have some time, I am going to slow down that video and the Follow The Fleet video at the link provided by Phd to see if his hand movements conform with the actual pitches and chord structures of the piece.
Astaire had piano training, but there is nothing I can find that suggests he was this accomplished. Nonetheless, he was an amazing performer at many levels.
- Krumhorn
Peachy beat me to it.
I'm not really a fan of the idea. In the grand scheme of things, it may be small potatoes, but it adds how many millions to the operating budget? Plus, every few years, the place will be renovated to expunge the bad taste of previous occupants.
I'm with CJinPA. Keep it small. The discomfort of a relatively small space is a big part of the White House's charm.
Bring in an organ and it would be a hell of a roller rink.
“My left pinky finger is jammed and not hitting the shift key sometimes. =(”
Dang it! Is that your “pickin’ “ finger?
Krumhorn, if you ever have the time to figure it out, please let us know.
From the Wikipedia page of the Playboy Mansion: Barbi Benton convinced Hefner to buy the home located in Holmby Hills, Los Angeles, California, near Beverly Hills. From the 1970s onward, the mansion became the location of lavish parties held by Hefner which were often attended by celebrities and socialites. It is currently owned by Daren Metropoulos, the son of billionaire investor Dean Metropoulos, and is used for corporate activities. It also serves as a location for television production, magazine photography, charitable events, and civic functions.
I said, balls gettin’ bigger all night long
Balls gettin’ bigger all night long
Balls gettin’ bigger all night long
Balls gettin’ bigger all night long
With a "heave!", and a ho!
They was swingin’ to and fro’, no, no, no!
People would send their kids, or go themselves, to learn to dance the various popular dances of the day. Like an Arthur Murray Studio. Remember those?
@John Henry, don’t knock Arthur Murray studios. Fifty plus years ago our lessons at Arthur Murray got me through our wedding reception without stepping on my lovely bride’s toes.
Seems obvious to me. Donald Trump needs a big ballroom because he needs room for his big balls — the largest of any postwar US President.
(Admit it, Althouse, you were just waiting for one of us commentators to say this. I’ll bet you and Meade had a bet going which one of us would be first to put that in a comment.)
The Cross Hall and Entrance Hall aren't the same but are separated by a screen of columns. The Cross Hall is long and thin (from East room to State Dining room) and once had the main staircase at the S D end (the S D was smaller).
The Entrance Hall faces north and was draughty, so the screen was filled in with Tiffany glass panels in the late 19th cent. When those were taken out by TR, they added a small vestibule inside the Entrance Hall, later a glass one outside the door. Now they bring everyone in through the East Wing except for the guest of honor. This means they have to go up a flight of stairs. It doesn't look like Trump's plan solves that, unless there's some massive re-grading of the side driveway.
90k sq ft must be the entire building, including an upper floor to the existing hyphen to connect the Ball Room to the East Room.
I've watched the Fred Astaire clip many times, but I just watched it again! I could spend hours on YouTube watching Fred and Ginger. They were the best! Fun fact: Fred also played drums and kept a drum kit in his bedroom.
As a kid we were forced to go to ballroom dancing class once a week. The girls liked it more than the boys did. Everybody dressed up.
At the Raquets Club in Short Hills NJ, which had a ballroom. Hosted by Mrs and Mr Shalleif. You had to ask your girl her name so you could introduce her to Mr and Mrs S filing in.
The future was not well anticipated.
It must have been pretty young because none of the girls were in strapless gowns.
Donate to the fund to get Trump some balls.
The irony won’t be lost on Powell. 🤣
@ mezzrow @9:03 AM
That was great. Thanks for posting that!
The irony was lost on ball-less Kak.
It's not too small and it's not too large. I'm sure many here have toured the White House and seen the palcity of public places.
Still, I urge you to go to the "Little White House, " where FDR in his last days spent with his mistress, conducting the war. A Motel 8 would have more amenities. Some of the British diplomats couldn't handle it. Their rooms were above the Guard quarters. 10 by 10 with shared lavatories.
kakscheisskopf®
The teachers at Sea Isle Elementary tried to teach us square dancing. Only the girls and sissies tried; the rest of us just clumped around trying to be invisible.
A friend and I signed up for a tap dance class in our freshman year in college (PE elective). We lasted about three sessions. The only other guy was a black gay, and I think he stayed in.
That shit is hard.
"I can't take my girl to square dances. She's a squirter."
Not balls. Not even big balls.
Jerry Lee Lewis - Great Balls Of Fire! (1957)
Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers Dance to “The Continental” in THE GAY DIVORCEE | TCM
Classic.
The little White House was in Bullochville!
The era of big ballrooms. Make America Grand Again
“JQA was a scholarly, maybe even dour sort, but his wife sounds like a really live wire. I wonder if she and Abigail managed to get along.”
By coincidence I’m reading the same biography as Althouse. Both John and Abigail Adams were loving parents (John doted on Lousia), but they expected their children to meet extremely high standards, both morally and intellectually. A brilliant and driven person, like JQA, could live at that level, but it was not easy even for him. Other members of the family, including Louisa, were deeply unhappy much of the time. To be an Adams meant putting the greater good over your own wishes, pretty much always. Per the dictates of duty, Louisa was separated from her husband or some of her children or both for years at a time, which was deeply painful to her. She also had more than her share of misfortune in her life; the death of a young child, multiple miscarriages (so many I’ve forgotten how many), and the bankruptcy of her once wealthy father. Her character was of the superficially fragile but tougher than you think type. At the time of Waterloo, she traveled from Russia to Paris and endured adventures which threatened her life and the life of one of her children; she faced these events with courage and resourcefulness. I’m glad she got to do some partying.
"Trump's ballroom will be 90,000 square feet. That's so much larger."
There'll be a Big Beautiful Ball.
I’d prefer our public servants be humbled now and then — reminded that they govern, not reign. We don’t need palaces or vast ballrooms for that. In a republic, dignity ought to come from restraint and service, not the scale of the stage. Honestly, if more of government were run out of buildings like those on military bases — spartan, functional, no illusions of grandeur — we might get better decisions and save a fortune in the process… though I do wonder how many of those doing the governing could actually govern without the trappings.
an FDR birthday celebration with togas
https://www.alamy.com/aggregator-api/download?url=https://c8.alamy.com/comp/DD73R9/fdr-celebrating-his-52nd-birthday-at-a-toga-party-jan-30-1934-with-DD73R9.jpg
You know who else needed a ballroom? Lbj
LBJ: Now the pockets, when you sit down, everything falls out, your money, your knife, everything, so I need at least another inch in the pockets. And another thing - the crotch, down where your nuts hang - is always a little too tight, so when you make them up, give me an inch that I can let out there, uh because they cut me, it's just like riding a wire fence. These are almost, these are the best I've had anywhere in the United States,
JH: Fine
LBJ: But, uh when I gain a little weight they cut me under there. So, leave me , you never do have much of margin there. See if you can't leave me an inch from where the zipper (burps) ends, round, under my, back to my bunghole, so I can let it out there if I need to.
Audio of full convo here https://youtu.be/RftQDvnyDPE?feature=shared
John Henry
What Keldonric said... @4:46 ...slapped the nail on the nose.
John Henry, ref barbed wire trouser rises: that is great! A double blast from the past - it happened 60 years ago, and I remember when the tape got released on CSPAN 25 years ago.
RR
JSM
Keldonric: “ if more of government were run out of buildings like those on military bases — spartan, functional, no illusions of grandeur ”
Only if they swapped, so the military could be in the historic or at least historic-looking buildings. Like the British regiments. Shows the country’s appreciation for their defenders, and links the troops to their history. Nothing like seeing all the names of the fallen from centuries past, and dining with the regimental silver. Reminds you that you’re there for more than a paycheck.
RR
JSM
Colleen Brown: “ Fred also played drums and kept a drum kit in his bedroom.”
Guess he used the Rhythm Method?
RR
JSM
Victoria's government house has a ballroom approaching 700sqm. It's a vice-regal site, not executive though.
https://www.governor.vic.gov.au/state-apartments
“ if more of government were run out of buildings like those on military bases — spartan, functional, no illusions of grandeur ”
Reminds me of my cubicle at JSC. Placed in the room that used to house the Apollo era Mainframe computers next to Mission Control. It had plenty of air handling. Except it was just below OSHA noise levels to be legal, at least until they learned the CO2 levels were not below such levels, because the Mainframe's never needed a fresh air return. Great place to work if you didn't mind losing your hearing and nearly passing out.
Another not-quite-joke is the story of the staid society matron who when her club is deciding how to raise funds for charity loudly blurts out "Balls!"
Though the White House doesn't have a ballroom there are usually several inaugural balls held at venues around the city. One argument against a ballroom at the White House might be that it automatically would downgrade all the other inaugural balls. If you weren't invited to the White House Ball, you weren't important enough to be invited to the real one.
Fun fact: Bill Clinton had 14 balls in 1993. In 2021, Joe Biden had none.
Yes, it was unfortunate about the Adamses. Suicide and/or alcoholism for those who didn't measure up.
Is the Trump ballroom really going to be that big? I think there is something wrong with Trump’s math. It’s true that the ballroom is described as 90,000 square feet:
“The White House State Ballroom will be a much-needed and exquisite addition of approximately 90,000 total square feet of ornately designed and carefully crafted space, with a seated capacity of 650 people — a significant increase from the 200-person seated capacity in the East Room of the White House.“
By way of comparison, the East Room is 80 x 37 feet, 2960 square feet. If it has a capacity of 200, and the new ballroom would have a capacity 650, that suggests the new ballroom will have around 9620 square feet, which is 10.7% of 90,000 square feet.
The current East Wing, not to be confused with the East Room, has 12,000 square feet on 2 floors, a footprint of about 6000 square feet. Wikipedia shows the East Wing footprint being expanded to an extent consistent with with 9620 Square feet, not 90,000 square feet.
What you are not supposed to notice, if the correct square footage is used, is that Trump’s $200 million ballroom will cost over $20,000 per square foot. That’s quite a lot of guilding.
Cyril Northcote Parkinson is mainly known for Parkinsons Law "Work expands to fill the time available" Also space and resources available. The book Parkinsons law and the sequel "The Law and the profits"
He points out that "the battle of Waterloo was won out of rooms in the pokey Horse Guards parade while the batte of Galipoli was lost out of new, modern and fancy offices." (quote from memory and approximate)
I don't remember if it was him but someone pointed out that WWII was won out of a couple hundred flimsy temporary buildings on the mall, constructed during wwi to last 1 year.
Korea and Vietnam were NOT won, arguably lost, out of fancy offices in the new pentagon.
The temporary buildings were still there during the Nixon administration and he had one Hell of a time getting them torn down. He had the Sec Def giving him a daily report on progress and still could not get it done. He finally did but it was a real struggle.
John Henry
"Balls!" said Hillary. "If I had 'em I'd be President."
John Henry: Wellington's Horse Guards building is not pokey (it's still there) - it's about the size of the White House. Probably about right for the 250,000-man army of his day. It is true that the gigantic War Office building built in 1906 was used to plan Gallipoli, but it can only take half the blame for a joint land/sea operation.
I am just butthurt from living/working around crappy Unicor furniture and generic buildings during my military service, and then transitioning to the fancy conditions of civilian fedgov, when both organizations are the same size. Just a not-so-subtle message that we were expendable.
(British regimental barracks, messes, etc, also tell you that you're expendable, but that people will remember you....)
RR
JSM
..."By way of comparison, the East Room is 80 x 37 feet, 2960 square feet..."
It's an event room, not a ball room. And that's small for the functions of the President, shoot I've had business meetings in rooms bigger than that. A ballroom has room for an orchestra, and a dance floor as well as seating for the dining guests. What I'd really like to see is the proposed floor plan that includes the present White House as is.
An important factor in the selection of Richmond as the CSA capitol was office space. Few cities in the Southland had enough to host a national government, even one as theoretically hands-off as theirs.
WWII-built buildings were still being used on the university campus here as late as the late 1960s. For a time, they were married student housing, then given over to offices.
We've given Ukraine $250,000 million since 2022 to run their government, pay their pensions, and kill people. The US Government obviously can afford the upkeep on a $200 million dollar ballroom. Swallow a camel, strain at a gnat.
90,000 square feet with a capacity of 650 people is 138 square feet per person. That’s Fauci level social distancing.
But I just don’t believe Trump is proposing to build something that big. That would make the ballroom 15 times the footprint of the current East Wing and 4 times the footprint of the White House itself.
If the actual ballroom will cost around $20,000 per square foot as my numbers suggest, that’s 3 times the Federal Reserve renovations at $6,300 per square foot.
Social distancing? For a ball? I think you're being dense for the purpose of hyperbole - or at least I hope you're not just stupid.
Why not compare it to a real ballroom? You know: Cloakroom. Bathrooms. Entry halls. Table layouts. Dance floor. Kitchen. Catering and wait stations. Orchestra space. Stage, and the various components of stages. Storage space. Security. It starts to add up, if you're creating a space for President-level functions. Not an expert, just using my head.
tcrosse said...
"Balls!" said Hillary. "If I had 'em I'd be President."
If Hillary was a man she would not have been married to Bill Clinton and being married to Bill Clinton was the only reason she made it to the national stage.
She wasn't nearly as good at sucking dick as Kamala Harris.
"He points out that 'the battle of Waterloo was won out of rooms in the pokey Horse Guards parade while the battle of Gallipoli was lost out of new, modern and fancy offices.'"
I don't know why Waterloo is pertinent to the topic at hand, however, I will point to a few pertinent facts that cast a substantial shadow over Cyril Parkinson and his law. Though a well-known and much celebrated battle. Waterloo was a middling scrap compared to Austerlitz, Jena, and Borodino, both in terms of forces engaged and logistics. Wellington was supported by sea routes leading from Portsmouth, London, Whitby, and Hull converging on Antwerp, and from there to Wellington's main depot in Brussels, and from there to Waterloo, 20 kilometers -- a day's march -- insignificant compared to Napoleon's logistical challenges in 1812, to say nothing of the logistics of the Gallipoli campaign.
Those Horse Guards paper-pushers didn't defeat Napoleon and those the more commodiously housed staff officers didn't lose Gallipoli. Napoleon was going to be defeated even if he drove Wellington's "infamous army" into the Scheldt and Blucher's Prussians across the Elbe. Waterloo won for the British the most prestigious seat at Vienna congress, that's its significance. Gallipoli was won by the Turks by their own fortitude and tactical brilliance. Their victory wasn't handed to them on a silver platter by a bunch of incompetents in London with too much floor space. If a Tommy Atkins or a Harmeet Singh serving in the Gallipoli trenches ever went a day without adequate supplies, it wasn't because a requisition slip got lost in Whitehall gutter. It was because the supply ship hit a Turkish mine and foundered. The Hellespont is the most defensible waterway in the world. Even if the Allies gained complete control of the Gallipoli peninsula, the Sea of Marmara would have remained out of reach by the Allied navies. The Turks could have sealed the strait by simply floating hundreds of sea mines and letting the never-ceasing current take them into the path of the invading fleet. The reason the Turks didn't use mine warfare tactics more extensively than they did is because of the difficult of clearing the strait of enemy wrecks after their inevitable victory.
I've never read Parkinson's books, but if this "Horse Guards won Waterloo" thing is one of his arguments... then I'm happy I missed it.
"She wasn't nearly as good at sucking dick as Kamala Harris."
Sic venit Monica Lewinsky.
Trump’s $200 million ballroom will cost over $20,000 per square foot.
It's $2,222 per sqft by my calculation. They will likely excavate to make lower floors for the FLOTUS and social offices now in the East Wing, a guest entrance with security, plus a new kitchen (the WH one is tiny and under the far corner), with the big room on top with a hallway to the East Room above the existing hyphen to the main house basement.
And lots of rest rooms!
My guess is they'll use the ball room for dinners and the East Room for dancing if the party is big.
The white house is 18 acres of quarters and pretty shabby. Canada's Prime Minister quarters are 111 meters on 88 acres. I could go on.
Sorry that would be 55,000 square feet to 102,257 square feet of Rideau Hall, with the grounds including 27 other buildings.
Narr: "WWII-built buildings were still being used on the university campus here as late as the late 1960s. "
I went to ROTC drills in the 80's at MIT's Building 20, a 'temporary' WWII R&D lab. It lasted until 1998, when it was replaced with a Frank Gehry monstrosity.
RR
JSM
@JSM
Our athletic complex "Park Avenue Campus" is on the grounds of the old Kennedy General Hospital, built in 1942 (one of three in the CONUS). There are still a few of the original brick admin buildings in use after a lot of renovation.
James Jones the WWII novelist was treated there, and turned Memphis into Luxor for his books.
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