The TNR author, Greg Sargent, is calling attention to the fact that Trump mentioned the 2026 midterms. Trump said he'd sign an executive order "to help bring HONESTY to the 2026 Midterm Elections." That's it. That's how "Donald Trump just gave away his own game." He revealed that he saw a causal relationship between his proposed reforms and the coming elections. Of course, Trump doesn't say he wants to rig the midterms for the Republicans. He's claiming to un-rig the elections, and he says "Democrats are virtually Unelectable without using this completely disproven Mail-In SCAM."
Now one might try to say that the elections are not currently rigged. Here's Sargent:
There is overwhelming evidence that any fraud in mail balloting is limited to nonexistent. Indeed, it’s now beyond obvious that the pretext is the thing to watch.
I love when the author says something is "beyond obvious" and I can't even understand what he's talking about, but let's read on:
Trump is manufacturing a fake justification for nixing vote-by-mail because he believes (probably wrongly, but never mind that) doing so will help Republicans in the midterms. That he openly linked his announcement to the 2026 elections shows he isn’t even bothering to hide the scam any longer.
What scam? Is Sargent hiding the Democrats' scam? I'm going to assume that both parties seek voting procedures that help their side, whether they "blurt out" something about the next election or not. The question is what procedures should we prefer, but it's not a question that anyone is thinking about in the abstract. It always gets back to who wins and who loses. Do you slough off fraud because it's "limited" or do you insist on the procedure that excludes as much fraud as possible? Where is the "scam"?
Sargent links to a study that supposedly shows that it's probably wrong to believe that mail-in voting favors Democrats. But that link on "wrongly" goes to a notice that says: "No webpage was found for the web address." If Democrats don't think mail-in voting helps them, why do they support it? Sargent might concede that Democrats too "believe wrongly."
The fact is that the Republicans have won enough power, at least for now, to change the rules. So Democrats need to make an argument that works in the absence of power, and Sargent is sketching out an argument that only Democrats will believe, that Angry Trump has an Unnerving New Plot to Rig Midterms.
Posts
108 comments:
Congressional elections are conducted by states. You have no power here, Trump the Orange.
"There is overwhelming evidence that any fraud in mail balloting is limited to nonexistent. " It's so limited and non-existent that every few weeks, we discover more evidence of mail in ballot stuffing. Most recently the city official in Hamtramck Michigan. Seen on cameral stuffing piles of ballots into a collection bin. Michigan's Jocelyn. Benson even complained about Trump pushing for ending mail in ballots claiming he's saying so because Putin told him to. Ugh. Will someone please please please save us from these idiots!!
* Supporters of incumbent Mayor Joseph Ganim were caught on video stuffing absentee ballot drop boxes with invalid ballots during the 2023-2024 Bridgeport mayoral primary.
* Craig Callaway, a former Atlantic City council president and prominent Democratic figure, was charged with voter fraud for orchestrating a scheme involving fraudulent mail-in ballots during the 2022 election. e allegedly paid individuals to act as "messengers" to collect and submit absentee ballots, some of which were invalid or forged, to manipulate election outcomes.
* 2025, city council member in Hamtramck, who narrowly won an election, was caught on video allegedly stuffing ballot boxes with fraudulent ballots in 2025. The incident raised significant concerns about mail-in ballot integrity in local elections.
* Deborah Smith, a Pulaski County official, was charged with felony voter fraud for deliberately switching over 130 voter registrations to a different city, affecting the 2024 election..
I could go on and on, but really, what's the fucking point? Head over to Grok for a substantial list if you need one. The Democrat Party embeds/incels in our corporate media will constantly say there is little to no evidence of voter fraud beyond every instance of it that you bring up to them.
They're fucking assholes and you can never win a debate with a fucking asshole, so don't bother trying.
Our elections are being rigged. Largely my American media companies, such as CBS and MSNBC, but also billionaire newsletters such as The Atlantic.
When Donald Trump wises up and starts arresting the CEOs of these companies and prosecuting them to the full extent of the law, maybe something will change.
I'd start with Laurene Powell Jobs. Grab her by the pussy.
I miss the days of article comment sections making fun of deranged lefties. If Biden wanted to do something about voting that would help Republicans, I would have not criticized it.
What is truly shocking to me is to learn that The New Republic still exists.
Is "beyond obvious" related to Abu Musa?
Congressional elections are conducted by states. You have no power here, Trump the Orange.
The Bully Pulpit. Or "then why are the Dems so upset?"
”then why are the Dems so upset?"
One word: Kayfabe.
All leftist reasoning is circular; every term of comparison loops back onto its opposite. Take for example, the left wing stance on human obesity. Consequently beyond obvious means scarcely credible.
It's beyond obvious why Trump really wanted to meet with Putin. He wants Putin to use his election meddling superpowers in exchange for Ukrainian lands.
Wake up, sheeple!
Prole: They are pretending to be upset, to go along with Trump's pretending to do something?
And limited to nonexistent means abundant.
"Beyond obvious" is the same as saying something is "axiomatic" in a legal brief. It means you don't really have an argument.
Meanwhile over in democrat Michiganstan...
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2025/08/15/video-appears-to-show-late-night-ballot-drop-off-by-hamtramck-council-member-under-investigation/
I know I shouldn't reward TNR for its unnerving new plot to rig the attention market
That is what I call a well turned phrase.
Bravo Althouse!
..."There is overwhelming evidence that any fraud in mail balloting is limited to nonexistent. ..."
Wow, this really pushes the boundaries out to the edge of uncharted territory: Will the New Republic finally succeed at Proving the Negative?
Prole outs himself as one of Freddie Blassie’s “Pencil-Neck Geeks”
If you read the article, than you can understand why the Democrats (and the left, both one and the same) commit fraud and try to constantly change the rules to get power.
People wanting to stop voter fraud want accurate, true elections. They want the will of the people to be expressed and not manipulated by fraudsters. This should be a non-partisan election. And its not, because the D's cheat and the R's dont.
If you back to November 2020, you'll notice that the MSM (and RINOs like Bill Barr and Mitt Romney) were saying 1 week after the election "There was no voter fraud". They had no way of knowing this. They just wanted the D's to win, and didn't want to find voter fraud.
And ever since, the MSM and the Democrats have chanted "There was no voter fraud". And fought every attempt to find voter fraud. Obviously, if there was no fraud, an audit would find that, and make Trump and all the MAGA supporters look like fools. But in Arizona and elsewhere the Democrats fought and even broke the law to keep people from auditing the votes.
Again, to the Democrats voting is just a game. They figure out how to get the maximum votes (changing the rules, allowing illegals to vote, letting fraud happen) and they think its Ok because they're powermad immoral scum. They agree with Stalin: "It doesn't matter who votes, what matters is who counts the votes".
They are pretending to be upset, to go along with Trump's pretending to do something?
Welcome to America — if you don’t know who the mark is, you’re the mark.
Do people know that in NY, California and DC the democrat controlled bar associations have tried to legally debar and prevent lawyers from practicing law who helped Trump find voter fraud in 2020? While at the same time allowing Democrat lawyers convicted of felonies to practice law?
That's how much the Democrats care about not finding voter fraud.
In many European countries thing are done in an honest adult manner. You show up on election day, show your ID, and vote. The votes are tallied and published within hours. Only in this country do we have this massive support for fraud, for mail-ins, for votes being counted weeks and weeks after election day.
Its all because the D's want to cheat their way to power. And the RINOs want to help them, or don't care because no one is putting $$ in their pockets.
Everyone knows what mail in voting means.
It means fraud.
This is another 80/20 issue. The only people who support mail in voting are the same people who support open borders and defunding the police
The current Democrat party is going to completely fall apart when mass mail in voting is ended.
The only question after it is eliminated is what the next opposition party to the Trump Republican Party looks like.
Some axioms really are axiomatic
here's a Fun Thought Experiment!
Go to the bank, and withdraw $500 in hundred dollar bills..
put them in an envelope and Mail it to yourself..
What's That? you'd NEVER trust the mails with THAT?
but you would with your vote?
I thought I would add the otherside of mail in ballot controversy, when USPS employees trash ballots from conservative zip codes. And what is the new thing? Setting Congressional districts by zip code.
“Congressional elections are conducted by states. You have no power here, Trump the Orange.”
Article I, Section 4 gives Congress the power to override state election laws:
“The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.”
Sargent attempts to bolster this lie with a funny URL: There is overwhelming evidence that any fraud in mail balloting is limited to nonexistent
The words "overwhelming evidence" are a link to an article written November 4 2020 in the midst of the largest mail-in ballot scam ever perpetrated. States admitted they broke their own rules when we were safely past the "laches" and they could admit it. Molly Ball won accolades for detailing exactly how a huge coalition of leftwing scabs and freaks concocted the plan and carried it out :ensuring" Trump would not win.
While the NYT, snugly in their self-perpetuating bubble, keeps hoping that Trump will lose support for talking about the stolen election, however over time the numbers of people who AGREE with Trump that 2020 was hinky if not totally fraudulent has grown to be a majority of Republicans and Independents.
Once again D losers are being isolated on an island of their own making. And again, "voter ID" is a hugely popular safeguard that ONLY democrats refuse to enforce. "Paper ballots" is also at least an 80/20 issue with D holding the short end of the stick.
If you have to fight so hard to keep cheating a "possibility" then people have a right to be suspicious that you expect to cheat again. Trump has never cheated. He doesn't have to. Every time some NYT loser points a finger at Trump the loser has three other fingers pointing back at his loser side.
France banned mail-in voting in 1975 – due to fraud
Mexico banned mail-in voting in1992 – due to fraud
Belgium banned mail-in voting in 2018 – due to fraud
Sweden does not permit mail-in voting
Italy does not permit mail-in voting
Ukraine does not permit mail-in voting (gobsmacked!)
Russia does not permit mail-in voting
Japan does not permit mail-in voting
No Middle Eastern country permits mail-in voting
No Latin country permits mail-in voting
Or as New Republic refers to them: Fascists!
Here is Sargent's link so you can see for yourself it is NOT a "proof" mail-in balloting is cheat-free, it is a PREDICTION just before election day that Trump will not be able to prove it after the election two days away.
Gee I wonder why the Deep State stenographers at the NYT were so SURE of themselves that Trump would not have a chance in court. Strangely they were right...that time.
If it is easy to register bogus voters, mail in ballots provide anonymity to carry out fraud without detection. So, I guess, the question is how easy is it for out of staters, illegals, dead people and imaginary people to get mail in ballots in the USA? Has someone done a study on this?
And even if these votes are secure, they're not always secret. We, Americans!!!, believe that the secret ballot signaled the the onset of true democracy and is the defining feature of legitimate elections worldwide.
Article I, Section 4 gives Congress the power to override state election laws
Sure. And if Trump were Congress, his power might actually mean something here (presuming the Senate would also dump the filibuster).
There is overwhelming evidence that any fraud in mail balloting is limited to nonexistent.
This idiot's "overwhelming evidence" is a NYT article published on November 4, 2020 - in other words, BEFORE THE 2020 ELECTION EVEN TOOK PLACE!.
Crazy right wing president Jimmy Carter said anything but paper ballots is an invitation to cheat and he would not certify any foreign election that used mail-in ballots, when he was an observer for the UN (when they still pretended to be for democracy).
One can’t just claim overwhelming evidence, the votes need to be made overwhelmingly fair and capable of passing audits using GAAP. If you want the accusations to stop plug all the potential leaky buckets of fraud.
That seems like a non- starter for Democrats. We all know why..:
Funny how almost 20,000 "Biden voters" appeared (more alleged black votes than Obama!) that one year everyone got a mailed ballot and then disappeared after that. Quite the bump in a 40-year trend line. Amazing!
20 million not 20,000
I hope voters from conservative districts are checking online with the secretary of state to make sure their ballots were logged in at the county. It's easy to do in my state and I don't believe we're unique.
Then it would be easy to determine whether ballots were "trashed" by USPS.
MountainMan said...
“Congressional elections are conducted by states. You have no power here, Trump the Orange.”
Article I, Section 4 gives Congress the power to override state election laws:
“The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.”
8/19/25, 8:29 AM
———————————
The key word in that is “Congress”
Name the 60 senators that would support this.
Whenever somebody says that vote fraud takes place on too small a scale to affect election outcomes, I always think, "Then why do they do it?" The people who are caught stuffing drop boxes, rounding up nursing home ballots, registering illegals to vote, engaging in prohibited vote-harvesting, etc., they must think what they're doing stands a good chance of making a difference on the outcome or they wouldn't do it. (Or at least the people PAYING those people think it'll make a difference.)
Interesting parallel of Sargent’s writing buddy Paul Waldman over at Public Notice today. Waldman writes:
“If President Trump installed a guillotine where the White House Rose Garden used to be and started kidnapping and then beheading one Democratic member of Congress every day at noon, in a matter of days there would be an article in The Atlantic titled ‘Beheading Opposition Politicians is Wrong, But Democrats Need to Rethink Their Opposition to the Death Penalty.’
The author would write, ‘Make no mistake: I don’t support publicly executing your political rivals. But if Democrats want to win close elections in the future, they have to position themselves in the moderate center of public opinion on the death penalty. Voters may have doubts about Trump’s methods, but he’s tapping into their real feelings, and Democrats should pay heed.’”
Below is an interesting statistics surrounding the 2020 election. Maybe this isn't the seven dimensional chess move that Donald thinks it is. Perhaps if the Republicans had embraced vote my mail during the 2020 election Trump would have won his second consecutive term
According to an article by people associated with MIT:
"The 2020 election opened up a big chasm between the parties in the use of mail-in ballots; 58% of Democrats voted by mail, compared to 29% of Republicans. In previous years, there was little-to-no partisan difference in voting by mail.
This partisan gap was stoked by the rhetoric of Donald Trump, who claimed that mail ballots were “out of control,” and that of his supporters, such as former Attorney General William Barr, who said that mail ballots would “open the floodgates to fraud.”"
What’s gratifying is all these attacks on Trump are supposed to be chipping away at his approval. This was the all-in strategy Schumer and the others were spitting venom about just a few short months ago. None if it is working…
FYI in the 2024 election there was virtually no difference in percentage of Republicans and Democrats using vote by mail.
Mail-in voting is a total scam. There's no way to know who actually filled in the ballot. And it's completely unnecessary: Very few people lack the physical means to present themselves at their local polling place during regular voting hours. Those few who can't do so can vote absentee.
FYI in the 2024 election there was virtually no difference in percentage of Republicans and Democrats using vote by mail.
Logic fallacy alert!
Which party supports unlimited mandatory mail in ballots? Democrats.
Which party opposes all forms of protection against vote fraud? Democrats.
Which party gets repeatedly caught on video stuffing ballot boxes and boasting about how they cheat? Democrats.
Which party just threw out their own election and selected a different person who wasn't even running? Democrats.
Thus, which party actually hates Democracy and the will of the voters? Democrats.
The leftists built a fraud scheme where evidence is difficult to gather or prove.
that's the scam.
btw - I do not trust Dominion. Is it illegal to say that?
on Tuesday November 2, 1976, from 1PM to 2PM there were no cars on the streets and roads of Puerto Rico. No people in the plazas, stores or restaurants, it was kind of like the rapture came and took eveyone away
I didn't see it, I was with everyone else.
Where were we? Locked inside classrooms voting.
Puerto Rico used to have problems with election fraud and in the 40s the state govt decided to put an end to it with a very strict voting regimen.
One of the rules was that on election day everyone statewide would go to their assigned voting classroom. At 1PM the doors would would be closed and nobody allowed in or out of the classroom until everyone had voted.
You needed your electoral ID card to get into the classroom, of course, that was checked by a rep from each of the 3 parties. Once the doors were shut, we were called by name, given a ballot, signed on the back by each of the 3 reps, a pencil and sent to a closed voting booth. We marked our ballots then deposited them in sealed urns.
We had final, but uncertified results for the entire election by aboiut 7PM. Gov, reps, senators, mayors, councilmen
Turnout for the 76 election was 86.1%. Turnout in the US overall in 76, was 54.8%
And even today if you tell a Puerto Rican an election joke like like "Can't ban mailin ballots, judge says. It discriminates against dead people" they will look at you like you have two heads. Either they won't get the joke or they will get the joke and think it is a sad commentary on elections in the upper 50 that such jokes can exist.
John Henry
Vote in person at your local precinct.
Bring your ID.
Used to work just fine. Except it made it difficult for the corrupt left to cheat.
76 was the last year shutting us in classrooms. But we still have voter ID cards, signed ballots, same day in person voting with few exceptions, inked fingers
And no jokes about election fraud because it can't happen.
At least until the 2024 elections when absentee voting was thrown open and we got voting machines to scan our ballots. And untrustworthy elections.
John Henry
AMDG said...
The key word in that is “Congress”
Name the 60 senators that would support this.
You only need 51.
50 if you want to get technical.
There are many things that are “beyond obvious” to the Left.
Like gender transition treatment for 10 year olds is Gender Affirming Care.
And killing viable babies is Women’s Health.
The list goes on.
according to the Soviet Media(D) - Making sure voting is honest is "rigging".
Hey gemeni what countries allow mailinvoting
"Countries with mail-in voting include Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, and Switzerland. The International Institute for Democracy & Electoral Assistance reports that 34 countries or territories allow some form of postal voting."
John Henry
Everyone knows that if people have to show up and show ID to vote then Democrats get destroyed.
The absolute proof that voter fraud exists will come when we move to a free and secure in person system with voter ID and paper ballots like almost every other country in the world.
There are no actual legitimate arguments against in person voting on paper ballots with a valid ID requirement.
This is an 80/20 issue. You have to be blatantly dishonest and openly support voter fraud to demand mail in voting.
Whenever a partisan says, "there is no evidence that there is anything to see here", they are out of arguments, and one step away from calling someone a racist.
Walk me through how eliminating mail-in voting can be a scam. It is too restrictive, so talking about middle-ground procedures to tighten up the system would be productive.
By making it impossible to detect fraud, you can claim that fraud doesn't exist. Q.E.D.
Well, both sides may want to change election rules to benefit themselves, but the Democrats claim that their reason is to increase voter participation and access. Republicans say that having an ID and getting to a polling place are normal things that anyone can do - especially in these times of extended voting periods - and therefore access is already maximized, and particularly is voluntary anyway.
Mike MJB Wolf alludes to this, from 2020:
Heed Jimmy Carter on the Danger of Mail-in Voting (Wall Street Journal)
The editorial is behind a paywall, but I snagged a copy when I had a free link from WSJ on a trial subscription back in the day.
"‘Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.’
By John R. Lott Jr.
April 10, 2020 6:27 pm ET
(Caption for photo at head of article: Election workers prepare ballots for a mail-sorting machine)
"‘Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.” That quote isn’t from President Trump, who criticized mail-in voting this week after Wisconsin Democrats tried and failed to change an election at the last minute into an exclusively mail-in affair. It’s the conclusion of the bipartisan 2005 report of the Commission on Federal Election Reform, chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker III.
Concerns about vote-buying have a long history in the U.S. They helped drive the move to the secret ballot, which U.S. states adopted between 1888 and 1950. Secret ballots made it harder for vote buyers to monitor which candidates sellers actually voted for. Vote-buying had been pervasive; my research with Larry Kenny at the University of Florida has found that voter turnout fell by about 8% to 12% after states adopted the secret ballot.
You wouldn’t know any of this listening to the media outcry over Mr. Trump’s remarks. “There is a lot of dishonesty going on with mail-in voting,” the president said Tuesday. In
response, a CNN “fact check” declares that Mr. Trump “opened a new front in his campaign of lies about voter fraud.” A New York Times headline asserts: “Trump Is
Pushing a False Argument on Vote-by-Mail Fraud.” Both claim that voter fraud is essentially nonexistent. The Carter-Baker report found otherwise.
Intimidation and vote buying were key concerns of the commission: “Citizens who vote at home, at nursing homes, at the workplace, or in church are more susceptible to pressure, overt and subtle, or to intimidation. Vote buying schemes are far more difficult to detect when citizens vote by mail.” The report provides examples, such as the 1997 Miami mayoral election that resulted in 36 arrests for absentee-ballot fraud. The election had to be rerun, and the result was reversed."
More...
Continued:
"There are more recent cases, too. In 2017 an investigation of a Dallas City Council election found some 700 fraudulent mail-in ballots signed by the same witness using a fake name. The discovery left two council races in limbo, and the fraud was much larger than the vote differential in one of those races. The case resulted in a criminal conviction.
In a 2018 North Carolina congressional race, Republican Mark Harris edged out Democrat Dan McCready by 905 votes. Fortunately, the state had relatively complete absentee-ballot records. Election officials became suspicious when they discovered that the Republican received 61% of mail-in votes, even though registered Republicans accounted for only 19% of those who had requested mail-in ballots.
A Republican operative, L. McCrae Dowless Jr., had allegedly requested more than 1,200 absentee ballots on voters’ behalf and then collected the ballots from voters’ homes when they were mailed out. Mr. Dowless’s assistants testified that they were directed to forge voters’ signatures and fill in votes. A new election was required, but Mr. Harris didn’t run. Mr. Dowless faces criminal charges for absentee-ballot fraud in both the 2016 and 2018 elections and has pled not guilty.
It is often claimed that impossibly large numbers of people live at the same address. In 2016, 83 registered voters in San Pedro, Calif., received absentee ballots at the same small
two-bedroom apartment. Prosecutors rarely pursue this type of case.
Mail-in voting is a throwback to the dark old days of vote-buying and fraud. Because of this, many countries don’t allow absentee ballots for citizens living in their country,
including Norway and Mexico. Americans deserve a more trustworthy system.
Mr. Lott is president of the Crime Prevention Research Center and author, most recently, of "The War on Guns." "
Earnest Prole said...
Congressional elections are conducted by states. You have no power here, Trump the Orange.
That was a great argument to make, pre Motor Voter.
Not so good, now
There's much to be said against Marty Peretz, but he did keep his magazine relevant, and for a while maybe even necessary, reading. Nowadays, it's lost its character and identity without finding a new one. It might as well be AI slop.
Here's a follow-up reading for those so inclined:
Voting by mail and absentee voting - MIT Election Data + Science Lab
The question is what procedures should we prefer, but it's not a question that anyone is thinking about in the abstract
I've been thinking about it for over 40 years, from when absentee voting clearly helped the GOP to now when the mail in balloting clearly helps the Dems. Here's my consistent answers:
1: There should be only on voting day, Election Day.
2: Polls should be open for at least 12 hours that day
3: All voter registration should end at least two weeks, and preferable six weeks, before the election.
4: If you don't care enough to get registered before the election, or don't care enough to make some minimal effort to vote on E day, then it is HIGHLY unlikely that you care enough to actually be an informed voters.
So in that case it is a win for society that you don't vote.
5: You should not be able to vote unless you have a State Driver's license or ID card issued by the State you are voting in. Those chosen because you can only have one of those from one State at a time, so it makes it harder to commit the vote fraud of voting in two States.
6: People who legitimately physically can't make it to the polls on Election Day should be allowed to vote absentee. College students who are going to school out of State, for example. or someone who's going to be on a trip away, or someone physically confined to a nursing home. If you can prove that your work will make it impossible for you to get to the polls while they're open, that would qualify, too
7: The only ballot drop boxes should be at polling stations, where you have to show your photo ID, that matches the signature on the envelope, in order to deposit the ballot
But the driving principle is always this:
Vote fraud is vote stealing. Sine voting is a zero sum game, there is NO difference between you being allowed to vote illegally, and me being illegally deprived of my vote.
If you lose your vote because you fucked around and made no effort to secure it, that's your problem, and you can fix it
If my vote is stolen because someone else voted illegally, there's NOTHING I can do to fix that
So whenever there's a conflict between "Stopping vote fraud" & "make it easier to vote so more will vote", we should ALWAYS go for "Stop vote fraud".
Because vote fraud steals from the deserving, and "you have to make some effort to vote" only "steals" from the undeserving.
Oops, *participation
Ronald J. Ward is making the argument that Democrats, in their quest for power, will do any horrible thing - because Trump is already doing horrible things, and his supporters, plus a bunch of non-Republicans, also support those horrible things.
What he fails to do is to make the case that anything Trump is actually doing is actually horrible. So he goes with guillotining Democrats. After all, isn't that where Trump is headed? I mean, why not? Seems a fair extension of what we're seeing all around us... right?
Howard said...
"The 2020 election opened up a big chasm between the parties in the use of mail-in ballots; 58% of Democrats voted by mail, compared to 29% of Republicans. In previous years, there was little-to-no partisan difference in voting by mail.
And 25% of the Democrats that voted by mail were actually living breathing legal voters.
The fact that Biden got so many more votes than Kamala, Hillary, Trump, Obama and most of those mail in ballots being counted days after the election in locked buildings with no observers should clue you in to what happened there.
Ronald J. Ward said...
Interesting parallel of Sargent’s writing buddy Paul Waldman over at Public Notice today. Waldman writes:
“If President Trump installed a guillotine where the White House Rose Garden used to be and started kidnapping and then beheading one Democratic member of Congress every day at noon, in a matter of days there would be an article in The Atlantic titled ‘Beheading Opposition Politicians is Wrong, But Democrats Need to Rethink Their Opposition to the Death Penalty.’
If by interesting you mean dishonest and pathetic sure.
What policies that Trump has implemented do you actually disagree with and why?
Prole:
"They are pretending to be upset, to go along with Trump's pretending to do something?
Welcome to America — if you don’t know who the mark is, you’re the mark."
So the Dems are not desperately trying to stop voter ID and to keep mail-in voting, and are happy with what Trump is doing?
You are right. I guess I missed that.
GOSP--"Some axioms really are axiomatic."
That is true, but in legal arguments it only works as background for getting to the point.
Howard: "The 2020 election opened up a big chasm between the parties in the use of mail-in ballots; 58% of Democrats voted by mail, compared to 29% of Republicans. In previous years, there was little-to-no partisan difference in voting by mail.
This partisan gap was stoked by the rhetoric of Donald Trump, who claimed that mail ballots were “out of control,” and that of his supporters, such as former Attorney General William Barr, who said that mail ballots would “open the floodgates to fraud.”"
And, as you say, in 2024 there was "virtually no difference" in the percentages of Democrats vs. Republicans voting by mail.
Yet the percentage of all voters (which includes Democrats) voting by mail dropped to 30%.
That seems to indicate that there was a 29% discrepancy in the number of Dems who voted by mail in 2020, and that fully half of the "Democrats" who "voted" by mail in 2020 didn't do so in 2024. (note--Trump got 77 Million in 2024 vs. 74 Million in 2020). Yet despite Trump dropping the rhetoric about Republicans not trusting mail-in voting, the percentage of Republicans doing so remained essentially the same.
Does this seem odd to you? As in "possible evidence of massive fraud?"
I do know that in CT in 2020 neither my wife nor I requested a mail-in ballot, but we got four delivered to our home, including one apiece for two of our grown children who had been living out of state for over 5 years.
Boat builder: no it is evidence that Kamala Harris was a horrible candidate that no one liked.
Probably 25 years ago when I lived in Seattle and they'd just started mail-in ballots widely (though not exclusively) there was one election (maybe I should say "election") where a large number of ballots had the same home address of 500 Fourth Ave. Which is the King County Administration Building.
No one batted an eye.
And that Joe Biden was by far the most popular candidate in history.
Sure.
Trump unriggs the midterms. The ensuing braying is cacophonious.
But that link on "wrongly" goes to a notice that says: "No webpage was found for the web address."
Confirmed.
And the link on “overwhelming evidence” goes to an article in the New York Times, as though anyone would regard them as an unbiased news source. Neither the article in the Times nor this article by Greg Sergent will convince anyone not desperately eager to be fooled.
Howard said...
Boat builder: no it is evidence that Kamala Harris was a horrible candidate that no one liked.
Cute evasion.
There is only one reason to allow mail in voting. It is to allow Democrats to mail in fake votes from people who do not vote or are illegal voters or don't exist at all.
Anthony said...
Probably 25 years ago when I lived in Seattle and they'd just started mail-in ballots widely (though not exclusively) there was one election (maybe I should say "election") where a large number of ballots had the same home address of 500 Fourth Ave. Which is the King County Administration Building.
No one batted an eye.
The first victim was Slade Gordon. Patty Murry was the first move in the fraud machine.
Then there was the election when they took 3 counts to install the Democrat governor.
Washington State is a complete joke.
I’m trying to remember seeing Trump angry. Anyone?
How was the Republic ever able to survive and flourish for centuries without mail in voting - the World Wonders (classic WW2 reference intentional).
Mail in voting works fine in Florida. The voter must request the ballot and can supply an email for confirmation it was received. Nothing received after election day is counted. We have our results shortly after polls close. Ballot harvesting is prohibited.
Trump seemed angry when he said that Iran and Israel didn't know what the fuck they were doing. But generally he is more loud and pointed than angry.
Leora said...
Mail in voting works fine in Florida. The voter must request the ballot and can supply an email for confirmation it was received. Nothing received after election day is counted. We have our results shortly after polls close. Ballot harvesting is prohibited.
There is no chain of custody. Not good enough.
Maybe if you deliver the ballot to a voting center with a person who checks your ID against the signature and a picture on the ballot envelop.
If Trump says he wants to shut down mail-in voting and *from that alone* Sargent concludes "Trump wants to rig the midterm elections in favor of Republicans" then what does that tell us about mail-in voting?
Ballot harvesting and unattended ballot boxes sound like 3rd world election attributes.
Shouldn't we be an example to the world on fair and honest elections?
We don't have that. I don't care how many times Democrats and their media simps tell me there's NO FRAUD. There most certainly is without a doubt. Saying everything is fine is the wrong answer. Saying yes let's get it right, is the only correct answer.
I don't think that Trump will prevail in banning mail-in-ballots. There needs to be allowances for disabled people and people on vacation to vote. I think that the best that he could hope for is a requirement that people would have to specifically request getting a mail-in-ballot instead of the state just sending one out to everyone. (Like in California.)
Jamie said...
“Ronald J. Ward is making the argument that Democrats, in their quest for power, will do any horrible thing - because Trump is already doing horrible things, and his supporters, plus a bunch of non-Republicans, also support those horrible things.”
No disrespect intended, but you can kinda see the part in your hair from where my comment flew over your head.
I wasn’t making any argument at all. I was pointing out how Waldman and Althouse are both critiquing the way political arguments get reframed to suit a partisan or narrative purpose:
• Waldman thinks the media center bends over backward to normalize Trump’s excesses as legitimate politics.
• Althouse seems to be saying the liberal media goes the other way, demonizing Trump’s ordinary political maneuvering as sinister conspiracy.
Different directions, same frustration: commentators shifting the frame of debate to fit their priors. That was my point.
Now, if you want to talk mail-in ballots: you wrote, “both sides may want to change election rules to benefit themselves, but Democrats claim that their reason is to increase voter participation and access.” Fair enough. But let’s stroll down memory lane — Trump himself said Republicans would never win again if voting was made easier. And he’s not the only Republican to admit as much.
Without ID checks, we have no real method to verify the ballot is being submitted by the authorized voter. Signature checks are joke which has, in fact, been mostly discarded in those states where mail-in-ballots are the norm rather than an exception. You should either have to present an ID to get a ballot mailed to you or you should have to present an ID to turn it in.
Even an electronic ballot method could be made more secure than our present mail-in-ballots by using unique e-mail addresses and ordinary cryptography.
And the only way you are going to get rid of mail-in-voting is for the GOP to copy the Donks' utilization methods to the tee. When the Democrats can no longer generate a differential on a voting method they immediately abandon it for something else.
They are pretending to be upset, to go along with Trump's pretending to do something?
Like all presidents except more so, Trump says things from time to time that are utter bullshit. Banning mail-in voting by executive order is one of those things.
Trump wants you to believe otherwise, and so do those whose job it is to wrangle low-information-voting Democrats. They’re both in the same business: motivating room-temperature-IQ voters. Both have an interest in portraying the presidency as all powerful when it is anything but.
In short, kayfabe.
And the only way you are going to get rid of mail-in-voting is for the GOP to copy the Donks' utilization methods to the tee.
Precisely — game theory demands it. There’s a word for those who fail to take every legal and semi-legal advantage: Losers.
The Florida model should be copied. I'm old enough to remember when Florida was the problem what needed fixing...
Weren't we talking about household voting last week? Mail in ballots enable that sort of thing. They also enable intimidation and vote buying.
JaimeRoberto said...
"Weren't we talking about household voting last week? Mail in ballots enable that sort of thing. They also enable intimidation and vote buying."
Along those lines, our Down Syndrome daughter's roommate was an inveterate watcher of CNN, so there was a constant stream of how horrible DJT is, which indoctrinated both of them. This was around the time that a voting canvasser came by and offered to "help" them fill out ballots. Our daughter's caregiver called us and asked what she should do, and our advice was to let the roommate do as she pleased, but have our daughter politely decline. The caregiver complied, and that's one vote that didn't get harvested.
One year, we went to a meeting of the Dane County ARC ("Association of *Retarded* Citizens, their word, not mine), where the message was Vote (D), funding, yadda yadda. No consideration was given to the possibility that once their objective was achieved, the voting base wouldn't be needed anymore, and their welfare would be way down the list of priorities.
The first victim was Slade Gordon.
Yep. 2000. Maria Cantwell. Up until that election, absentee ballots always - always - favored Republicans.
Yet - for some wild, unknown reason - the tide turned and Slade went from having a decent lead to losing the race.
Greg,
I am in agreement with you about everything but using driver's license as voter ID. ID is essential to secure elections, just not driver's license.
1) There is an existing market in counterfeit driver's licenses
2) Non-citizens can get DLs
3) They cost money to the holder
4) It is not hard to have 2 licenses from different states. My son got a PA license without giving up his PR license, for example
5) People who don't drive won't have drivers licenses (I think some states issue a non-driving drivers license for ID purposes.)
100% in favor of ID, though. Issued by the state for free on proof of age, citizenship, residence and whatever else. Good forever as long as you vote. In PR, if I miss 2 elections I have to get my card revalidated. If I miss 3 it gets cancelled and I have to get it renewed. My current card was issued 25 years ago when they changed the card format.
In PR it is handled by the state election commission. Every town, no matter how small, has an office to issue voter ID. Not all are open every day but you only need to go once ever 10-15 years.
Since it can't legally be used for ID other than in electoral matters, there is no incentive to counterfeit it. Since you have to vote in person in a 5 hour window, having an extra card would not do you any good.
John Henry
loudogblog said...
There needs to be allowances for disabled people and people on vacation to vote.
Absolutely about the disabled, hospitalized and so on. In Puerto Rico we have people that go out and get their votes. On election day.
As far as vacation, if vacation is more important to you than secure elections, go ahead and go on Vacay. In PR, until the 2020 election, absentee ballots would be granted only if one had a good reason not to be present in PR on election day.
In practice, the only good reasons were considered to be 1) Military stationed off island and 2) Student in an off-island university. I understand that if one made a big enough fuss and one really did have a need to be off-island, one could get an absentee ballot. But they were rare.
642 absentee votes out out of 1,589,991 votes total in the Nov 2016 election (0.04%)
In 2020 it was liberalized and we had about 11% vote absentee
John Henry
Leora, it's pile on time. Mail voting in Florida is not fine, it's just that you have enough safeguards that it's not immediately, catastrophically bad. I suspect that one of the effects of all those safeguards is that fewer people request mail ballots, which on its own is another harm-reducing feature.
I would say that Puerto Rico takes, or at least took, the right approach. Interestingly, that is much closer to the way it's done in most European countries too.
Eliminate fraud? All votes are counted at the place they were cast. No more boxes of ballots "found" in a car trunk a week later. As well, counting does not begin until all the polls are closed and precincts don't announce any totals until every precinct is done counting, which makes it impossible for anyone to know how many more "votes" they need to find.
https://x.com/greg_price11/status/1957810716955508949
loudogblog said...
I don't think that Trump will prevail in banning mail-in-ballots. There needs to be allowances for disabled people and people on vacation to vote. I think that the best that he could hope for is a requirement that people would have to specifically request getting a mail-in-ballot instead of the state just sending one out to everyone. (Like in California.)
Fuck people on vacations.
Disabled People can use the ramps that are on every building.
Deployed Soldiers have programs in place.
The effort of traveling to a building and standing in line for 30 minutes should be trivial to the amount of time you spend educating yourself. The easiest part of being a prepared voter is casting the vote.
Most people in the US are too coddled and hedonistic to be good voters anyways. That is why we have a 35 trillion dollar deficit and we have been starting wars all over the world.
"Fuck people on vacations."
I don't understand the vacation argument. If voting is your concern, schedule your vacation around the election.
Mason G.,
The reason you can't understand the vacation argument is that you think it's being offered in good faith.
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