"... long before law enforcement or the future president discovered Epstein pimped minors. How do I know the letter is false? Rupert Murdoch’s WSJ told me so. You see, it ran a 13,000-word expose on Epstein on December 17, 2023. The piece did not mention Trump. Not once. If the publication had the goods on Trump, it would have exposed him ahead of the 2024 presidential primary season. If the deep state had the goods on Trump, the end of him would have come years ago...."
Writes Don Surber, in "The counterfeit letter on Epstein may end the Wall Street Journal" (Substack).
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56 टिप्पणियां:
TDS is a deadly disease.
But this time it has to be true because if there is smoke then their must be fire, right?
On the heals of the CBS News settlement — the repercussions of which are still being aired, last night in fact — how can the most reputable newspaper in the world, drop the ball like this?
This is highly irregular.
The letter was allegedly in a binder along with other birthday letters to the evil Epstein. Why didn’t the WSJ publish or at least mention the other letter writers?
I am highly skeptical of the veracity of this letter. That being said even if the WSJ published an article in 2023 that failed to mention this letter, that doesn't mean the WSJ did not get possession of this letter subsequent to that article being published. Also this argument, "If this letter were real, Miss Maxwell would have released it years ago," isn't that persuasive. Leverage like this ceases to become leverage once you use it. If Ghislaine Maxwell had this letter or knowledge of it she would seek to trade it for something to benefit herself most likely, not just release it to spite Trump. But again, I am very doubtful about this newly published letter. And I suspect the mindset of the editors at the WSJ wasn't, "Is this letter true?", but rather "Can we legally get away with publishing this letter without dinged by a defamation lawsuit?"
"If the publication had the goods on Trump, it would have exposed him ..."
This is a false conclusion to make.
Many times, newspapers get the goods on politicians and then don't run any stories about the goods. People who don't understand the media in the United States just blindly assume that if a journalist "gets the goods" they immediately write about "the goods." That's not how it works.
Ask Ronan Farrow. Or David Pecker.
The power of the press comes from having the ability to keep news OUT of the newspaper; not in it.
What are we going to do if Trump IS assassinated in days to come? Be passive and read what the news people tell us? Distract ourselves with entertainment...?
Why was Trump suddenly so gung-ho about attacking Iran when he had always been pushed before but was too wise and indicated hesitation up to the moment he changed his mind? That, along with the about-face about continuing to arm Ukraine*, are sad. *at least on that one he can hide behind the fact that Putin's forces were fighting back unlike Hezbollah/Palestine which pretty much had been subdued and did not necessitate a pre-emptive attack this summer...
Bibi's getting desperate and he's got our poor Trump in our clutches, I'm afraid. Stick to the truth, I'd advise him. He's married and not cheating now... he's not a kiddie diddler just acted the oaf as a playboy partyboy (Most men, unlike your dad, put those games away when they build a family, if they're family-oriented...)
He'll get through this, but once again, the religious state of Israel is going to cost this nation, I fear... Take care and god bless all persons of good will!
Simple question the WSJ has to answer truthfully: when did you gain access to the letter?
FLC suffering Gell-Mann Amnesia. Quit buying into all these media narratives.
The WSJ is upset about Trump's tariff policies, so much so that they're grasping at straws with this questionable story. That aside, even if the birthday letter were authentic, so what? It's supposedly from 2003, three years before Epstein's was first charge. Trump banned Epstein from Mar-a-Largo in 2007. I fail to see who this is a "bombshell".
FVD, “Can we legally get away with publishing this letter without dinged by a defamation lawsuit?"
Given Trump’s litigation history, the lawsuit is coming and WSJ knows that.
I'll stick with the Daily Mail, thank you.
As far as I know, Trump has never been a Dear John letter writer. In fact, very much the opposite is true. 👉🏽 From the Althouse archives.
I am highly skeptical of the veracity of this letter.
So is Grok, which suggested that the WSJ posting only parts of the letter demonstrated a deliberate narrative control operation on the part of the WSJ to shape the story in a way to harm Trump.
That would be standard operating procedure for the fucking scumbags who litter our nation's media.
Why didn’t the WSJ publish or at least mention the other letter writers?
Because.
For the same reason that Clinton, frequent flyer on the Lolita Express from my understanding (whatever that entails), accused - actually credibly! - of rape, what was it, twice? More? while governor, revealed and eventually admitted to have been having sex with an intern (I mean, POTUS vs intern - is there a greater power imbalance possible in the modern world? Yet somehow women in journalism were talking about strapping on kneepads for him instead of taking him down for his violation of Lewinsky) in the Oval, is still aces with these people.
I think Trump is innocent of the hebephilia that appears to have been Epstein's stock in trade, for the same reason Surber does: because if anyone was out there to accuse him, if any video or photos existed, if there were any records at all of his wrongdoing, they'd have been brought to glaring light long before now. And furthermore, as I said in another thread, are we supposed to believe that Trump surrounded himself with, indeed, elevated to cabinet-level positions, people trumpeting their intent to make the Epstein files public if he knew he even might be in them? Or did he forget?
But let's just say he were guilty. Why, FLC (for instance), would his guilt constitute "the end of his presidency" when Clinton's admitted guilt* didn't?
* Of course I know the offense is different. But again, with Clinton: accused of forcible, not statutory, rape by more than one victim, creator of "bimbo eruptions" necessitating a fixer department, apparently a far more plausible Epstein "client" than the man who threw Epstein off his property permanently.
"That aside, even if the birthday letter were authentic, so what?"
I had similar thoughts. It isn't particularly damning. Just a birthday letter that says some banally nice things. Sure if it is true, (and I do mean if), it shows an association between Epstein and Trump but we already knew that existed before. And we already know that Trump ended that association and kicked Epstein out of Mar-a-Lago. Also a private attorney who was pursuing actions against Epstein noted that Trump, compared to almost everyone else, was uniquely cooperative with him in giving relevant information regarding Epstein.
"FLC suffering Gell-Mann Amnesia"
You are mis-applying Gell-Mann amnesia. For those unfamiliar with it, this is how the amnesia reveals itself:
You see a story in the paper about a subject you know - and realize the story is wildly inaccurate. You then turn the page and read another story about a subject you do not know, and blindly assume the story is accurate.
That is a far different phenomenon than pointing out that the media in the United States frequently DO NOT REPORT news they have in their possession ("the goods") and that this is the source of their power.
I do not have Gell-Mann Amnesia. That's a totally different subject than the one I wrote about.
"If anyone was out there to accuse him, if any video or photos existed, if there were any records at all of his wrongdoing, they'd have been brought to glaring light long before now."
We have no way of knowing this. Perhaps the victim's lawyer approached Trump and they settled out of court in secret. This happens all the time.
Many of Epstein's victims in fact negotiated settlements with the mere threat of a lawsuit.
It's just sloppy logic to make this supposition.
The Independent: “The Wall Street Journal, and Rupert Murdoch, personally, were warned directly by President Donald J. Trump that the supposed letter they printed by President Trump to Epstein was a FAKE and, if they print it, they will be sued,” Trump wrote, referring to himself in the third person."
“Mr. Murdoch stated that he would take care of it but, obviously, did not have the power to do so,” he continued. “The Editor of The Wall Street Journal, Emma Tucker, was told directly by Karoline Leavitt, and by President Trump, that the letter was a FAKE, but Emma Tucker didn’t want to hear that. Instead, they are going with a false, malicious, and defamatory story anyway.”
"Why, FLC (for instance), would his guilt constitute "the end of his presidency" when Clinton's admitted guilt* didn't?"
It's not a requirement. I believe Trump's failure to release everything the FBI has about Epstein and to arrest anybody who was raping young girls will result in the end of his Presidency. Irrespective of his personal guilt.
This action will cost him the House. Democrats will spend the last 2 years of his Presidency impeaching and removing him with the help of Republicans who don't like Trump.
He's toast.
And he amplified and cemented his toastiness by telling his own supporters to fuck off. People who might have offered support will be quiet now. People who might have given Trump the benefit of the doubt now won't. It's stupid tactics and a strategic blunder, politically, for Trump to tell his own supporters they're idiots falling for a hoax and that he doesn't want their support.
"...may end the Wall Street Journal"
Oh no!
Anyway...
The Autopen signed the doodle.
This latter sounds like another "pee tape" deja vu all over again.
Regardless of how the letter saga plays out, it raises a question for readers, especially those of us who escaped from the NYT plantation years ago: if the Journal also tilts left in its "news" pages, where do we go?
The reason the letter is fake is because it doesn't sound like Trump. George Conway posted a letter from 2006 to prove that Trump sends letters to people. But that letter actually sounds like Trump! Weird prose is not Trump's thing.
Many of Epstein's victims in fact negotiated settlements with the mere threat of a lawsuit.
Yes. But what mainstream news organization (perhaps with eager help from outside money) wouldn't gleefully outspend this "Epstein client," persuade a "Trump victim" to break her NDA, if any such NDA existed?
Now address the rest of my comment: why would Trump surround himself with people who swore to make the files public if her knew he even might be implicated in them? Did he forget what he did?
It's possible that I'm wrong. Trump might suffer from that degree of arrogance that causes some of the rich and powerful to do inexplicable things that can bring about their demise. But he had a choice about whose support to accept in this go-round - about whom to elevate. Epstein's files have been a hot-button story since long before last year's election season. And he had nearly a decade, by last year, of hard experience about what his enemies were willing to do to bring him down. Why would he deliberately create this situation? Because it's entirely predictable that things would end up this way if he were implicated in the files.
This is why I think the files contain records about people whom it would be harmful to national security (or possibly, yes, to both sides of the political aisle) to burn at this point - but not about Trump himself. (And that his "We will release the files" surrogates, and he, didn't know that last year.)
Eyes on prize… avoid distractions and bullshit takes. Looking at you, FLC…
"Why would Trump surround himself with people who swore to make the files public if her knew he even might be implicated in them? Did he forget what he did?
Trump in fact surrounded himself with people who would swear to make the files public but then not do it. Scumbags, in other words.
That was pretty smart.
Obvious fake, too.
This is straight spy agency chaff. Even if true. Is it the tip of the iceberg or is it the worst thing that they got on him. IOW, it can be spun a thousand ways from Sunday.
Oliver Stone's JFK, Joe Pesci as David Ferrie:
"It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma! The fuckin' shooters don't even know! Don't you get it?"
Eyes on prize… avoid distractions and bullshit takes.
Trump has ensured that Epstein will be a distraction for his entire 2-year Presidency.
He now claims Epstein is a hoax, created by Democrats and that there are no Epstein lists or files, and told his own supporters to fuck off.
That was epically stupid.
It smells like the Mapes-Rather fake GWB word possessor letter.
Until a real shoe drops, this is less than a Nothing Burger.
From Surber (not clear if it is a quote from the WSJ):
Maxwell collected letters from Trump and dozens of Epstein’s other associates for a 2003 birthday album, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
Pages from the leather-bound album—assembled before Epstein was first arrested in 2006—are among the documents examined by Justice Department officials who investigated Epstein and Maxwell years ago, according to people who have reviewed the pages. It’s unclear if any of the pages are part of the Trump administration’s recent review.
Why didn't they publish the names of the "dozens of Epstein's other associates?" Do what the Mother Jones guy did--call them and ask? Like real reporters?
Was Trump saying Epstein “was a creep” all it took for The WSJ to publish? It seems weak, more in keeping with tabloid Enquirer than the WSJ.
Sebastian said...
Regardless of how the letter saga plays out, it raises a question for readers, especially those of us who escaped from the NYT plantation years ago: if the Journal also tilts left in its "news" pages, where do we go?
For most readers on this site I would start with PBD - Patrick Bet David broadcast on youtube.
Also Ground News. Grok summary: "Ground News is a platform that aggregates news from various sources and provides tools to compare coverage across the political spectrum. It aims to help users understand media bias by showing how different outlets report the same story, highlighting variations in framing, word choice, and emphasis. "
Maybe the WSJ editor in chief is a DE&I school of journalism graduate? Same class as supreme KBJ perhaps? 🤔
It’s fake news! It’s a hoax! Innocent people could have their reputations damaged! It’s Obama! It’s Biden! It’s Garland! It’s Comey! It’s Murdoch! Look over there — don’t look at me!
It begs the obvious — if there is nothing in it — why not release it?
Trump is such a moron.
"...If the publication had the goods on Trump, it would have exposed him ahead of the 2024 presidential primary season..."
Well... that's not proof, that's an opinion masquerading as 'evidence'. Smells a lot more like a Deep State strategic leak, by the usual 'anonymous' sources, to me.
Nobody f*cks with a Comey, pal. As for the WSJ not being 'conservative' anymore, that happened quite a while ago, didn't it? Hasn't it been Chamber of Commerce RINO for a long time?
I still think this is a big briar-patch maneuver. Brer Trump is going to get them all.
RR
JSM
i've been a subscriber to the WSJ since the turn of the century..
my subscription expires next month..
i won't be renewing..
The "news" section has been bullsh*t for MORE THAN 10 years.
The opinion section currently has One overarching theme:
ORANGE MAN *BAD* !!!
i'm tired of paying for crap i can get "free" on NPR
You are mis-applying Gell-Mann amnesia.
I applied it exactly the same way you applied it to me. I mentioned a poll by CNN, because it was a general topic. You then assumed I accepted it, because I discussed whatever merit it might have. Several other people explained the stupidity of your arguments, yet you persisted to obfuscate, while I simply pointed out the origins of Gell-Mann from the actual source of "State of Fear".
Now here you are today, giving prominence to a WSJ article, which you could just ignore because, as Don Surber has already pointed out, the WSJ has a Gell-Mann problem. This should be a nothing burger to you, yet here you are claiming it could lead to Trump's removal from office. To be fair, you've never shown any form of consistency in arguments.
A rationale argument here is that the WSJ has just played into Trump's argument of a hoax. Trump is already bringing a lawsuit against the WSJ for this article, and with the exception of a successful SLAPP argument; Trump could win which would validate this as a hoax. It would have been better to leave this a nebulous narrative, rather than interfering with Trump while he's in the process of destroying himself, as that is what you seem to believe. But here, the WSJ has brought evidence, which they can't validate (the essence of Gell-Mann), and now they appear the fools.
I've been reading about people dumping WSJ already. I've actually tried to dump them over the past couple of years, after subscribing for decades. They've gotten so expensive and given all the other avenues to get information today, I'm finding that I give WSJ less and less of my time.
But every time I look to cancel, they make me an offer I cannot refuse, so I'm still getting it.
On this topic of Epstein I have to say, I don't care anymore. I just don't. It's all ugly, all bad, and I know there are important people mixed up in it. We all know this.
But Trump is getting so many good things done now, I just want him to be able to stick it out as long as possible, because we will never see the likes of him again in that position.
Folks, he is turning things around in this country. It's like trying to turn a massive destroyer around a traffic cone, but he's getting there.
And for that reason, I simply do not care anymore about Epstein. We've been lied to. By every one. About everything over the last 3 or so decades. Why let this one take over your life and The Narrative now? You just had an election manipulated in 2020 and a man who everyone knew was mentally impaired, not to mention corrupt, taking up space as the Presidential figurehead while people we don't know were running the country and changing the world for the worse.
This is a far, far greater problem for us than Epstein's Island. It's not even close. One is perhaps the worst thing that we've seen done in this country- it was a takeover of the nation by unelected people. The other is bad morals, bad taste. I can't get moved by this anymore. I've seen too much other stuff.
NBC withheld the Lewinsky stained blue dress story, and inadvertently (1) made the Drudge Report a hit, and (2) alerted sleepy and docile Republicans that they couldn't trust the then-mainstream media. WSJ is at least publishing something that may offend its readers (i.e., it is vastly more honest than CNN-MSNBC-ABC-NBC-NYT-WP).
WSJ has historically been right-of-center in an old-school establishment Republican way (e.g., George Will), but it has shifted to the unaligned center with (urban) politics and its choices for many stories in recent years.
The doodle may have happened, as Trump long pushed a rich playboy image with beautiful wives. His pre-politics sexual behavior was adjudicated during the 2016 election and the random court cases that followed.
Long story short: A nothingburger even if true.
Temujin: “Folks, he is turning things around in this country. It's like trying to turn a massive destroyer around a traffic cone, but he's getting there.” That’s why the Democrats and the mediaswine must stop him. Every day their catspaws engage in seditious protests. No fraud or calumny is beyond them. Also, it is a mistake to believe the WSJ news side is not lefty.
I suspect it will be impossible to verify whether the letter is authentic or not, but that's the point: The WSJ published the story without being able to verify the letter, as well as singling out Trump among all the alleged letter writers. I don't know if that's enough to demonstrate libel with the Times v Sullivan threshold, but Ghislaine is a convicted criminal and hardly a reliable source, so malice seems likely.
I would’ve been willing to pay to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal but it’s just ridiculously expensive. I used to subscribe, but I quit because I noticed how expensive it was. I subscribe to various newspapers and magazines and I do want them to be able to earn money but I just think the Wall Street Journal is confiscatory. Now after this bullshit birthday letter album thing I don’t know if I’d want to reward them even if it were a normal price
I'm wondering if the people running this Op pushed it to be released by the WSJ, because:
1) It is perceived to be a right-wing journal, therefore greater credibility of the story.
2) Like the Steele Dossier story, once anyone publishes it; everybody else can simply point to the original article as "evidence", and if the story is exposed as a hoax, everyone else can say "well, we just reported that the WSJ reported it".
3) For a period of time, this will consume the oxygen preventing Trump from advancing his agenda.
4) When the WSJ ultimately gets destroyed from the fall out of this, that's one less moderate journal in existence.
All of Trump's previous Truth Social posts now seem quite rational. The joke before was he kept talking about something he demanded others to quit talking about. Now, you can read those posts as directed to those intending to publish this story as a warning. You would do better to quit talking about this and move on.
On the "supporter" post; we have already seen the "I was a Trump supporter until this came out" takes. Trump was getting ahead of them and now we will all see those people as we do lonejustice, DD Driver, FLC, and Kak bich. They were never supporters and nobody needs them.
The reality is that sometimes conspiracies are also true and there are "hidden power networks". Anyone who even spends a little time looking at the Epstein case — seeing how things were reported not just in one moment — but over the course of decades has to wonder. Maybe it was just an incredibly coincidental turn of history that the person who was initially involved in overseeing the case - Bill Barr — who was involved in a sleazy cover-up involving Iran-Contra, also happened to have a father who helped Epstein get his first job at the Dalton School forty years earlier (at a time when Epstein only had a high school degree). These are documented facts.
Epstein's association with Robert Maxwell's daughter -- another person with close ties to intelligence agencies — is another one of those "coincidences" that just seems way too rich to be a historical accident.
Do rich and powerful people engage in egregious misbehavior and then use their social networks to protect themselves? Is that a "conspiracy" or is it just a fact? In this particular instance, why were rich and powerful people around Epstein willing to put their names and reputations on the line to ensure that Epstein received incredibly lenient treatment? e.g. actions that the DOJ even flagged in its review of the Epstein case in 2020.
The child abuse aspects of this case are not in dispute either. Why did this one person receive such an absurd level of protection and such lenient treatment? Let's begin with that fact. Why were so many people involved in that lenient treatment rewarded with future political advancement, rather than having their careers absolutely destroyed, as would be the case in any other normal professional sphere?
It is pretty obvious why this case hits close to home for Trump. Bondi was Attorney General in Florida at a time when Epstein's activities were open and notorious, and she did nothing. In Trump's first term, he rewarded Alex Acosta with a cabinet position (Acosta was involved in the initial prosecution of Epstein when he was a U.S. Attorney and provided an agreement with incredibly favorable release terms for Epstein that was largely seen as a farce).
Only a fool would believe that Trump has any interest in "protecting the innocent". The same is true with other politicians who maintained a close relationship with Epstein through the years. I'm sure there are Trump supporters who will try to rationalize what is going on. But I suspect this is one of those cases where there are going to be many who start to see Trump with clearer eyes going forward. Trump has always been sleazy, which is one reason he was able to maintain a close relationship for years with Epstein. He and Bill Clinton probably maintained the same close relationship for years for the same reasons. Even if they didn't actively engage in the kind of abuse Epstein was involved in, they were almost certainly aware of what was going on. Trump even alluded to it as well in previous comments about how Epstein "liked them young”.
I'm not following the reasoning that if the WSJ didn't publish the letter before it had it, it must be false.
"I would’ve been willing to pay to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal but it’s just ridiculously expensive."
If you still have a .edu email address you should be able to get the academic rate, which I believe is around $180/year. Not cheap, but much cheaper than the NYT.
“ I'm not following the reasoning that if the WSJ didn't publish the letter before it had it, it must be false.”
You should read Talib’s “Black Swan”
I'm not a big fan of Trump's character, but he doesn't strike me as the kind of man who would f*ck 16 year olds. A man who would do that would be a real loser. Trump loves to boast ("if you're a celebrity they let you do it"). How could he boast about that?
If we remember, Stormy Daniels signed an NDA and then went back on it. That sometimes happens. Also, Epstein held on to his tapes and then the authorities got their hands on them. It's not impossible that Trump could have intervened at some point and had tapes destroyed, but it's not likely. If there were tapes of Trump and underaged women it's more likely than not that they would have been leaked to sway the election.
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