Another commenter sniffs at the sniffer: "Sinks are in a kitchen. Basins are in a bathroom."
I wasted some time trying to understand why Mick Jagger would want someone using the sink — uh, basin — next to him, but this is just some house Jagger rented over half a century ago. But I'm still blogging this because 1. I'm amused by one commenter out-sniffing another, 2. I'd never paid attention to the basin/sink distinction (if it even exists in America), and 3. The double sink issue. I browse enough real estate listings to know there are people out there who think 2 sinks in one bathroom is a nice feature. Why?! The only decent use I can think of is in a children's bathroom, but who are these kids who can't brush their teeth the old fashioned way, huddled around one sink?
पोस्ट्स
८१ टिप्पण्या:
You brushed your teeth around a single sink with your siblings? When I was growing up me and my 23 siblings brushed our teeth around rain-filled pothole four miles from our house.
You must be speaking as a working mom, who had to "supervise" the teeth brushing and made them double up so you would minimize your time and be ... more efficient? Hm.
Those basins are rather large. I'm sure they're perfect for ritually washing the sacrificial infants.
We didn't have a toothbrush, when I was a kid. We used to share an old, used corncob.
Two sinks are CDMA, which, in principle, is an elegant solution. However, with our development, TDMA is a simpler and more affordable approach.
We have two sinks in our bathroom. They are also on opposite walls. My wife and I can choose to get ready simultaneously while staying out of each other’s way. We love it.
One may sniff “why don’t you want to be next to your wife?” That may work for someone unfamiliar with our shower, which is roomy enough for the both of us.
I'd never paid attention to the basin/sink distinction (if it even exists in America
In my part of America, plumbers call the kitchen sink a sink and the bathroom sink a lav, short for lavatory. Maybe they call them basins in other regions of the US. In any case, a lav is a sink. It's a type of sink. Generally, most people call a bathroom sink a sink and they're not wrong. (Sniff)
In real estate listings, I'm seeing 2 sinks in the bathroom that goes with the main bedroom, so it's presented as a luxury that the husband and wife are sharing a bathroom. It's not a good solution. If you can't have separate bathrooms, just work on your schedule efficiently. And don't be doing your hair and makeup in the bathroom. I can't picture a husband and wife using side by side sinks. Are people really doing that?
As someone who has sold homes for over 20 years, for various "big builders"... I can tell you the number one complaint in my newest neighborhood is the lack of double sinks in the master bedroom. And no, not one minority person has been offended by my continuing use of that term!
ritually washing the sacrificial infants
Human rites are performed in liberal loos for social, clinical, criminal, political, and climate progress.
Jack and Jill.
" I can tell you the number one complaint in my newest neighborhood is the lack of double sinks in the master bedroom."
Oh, no! That means there will be more and more of them and that many people who don't even want them will put them because it's what they've been told the potential buyers will notice.
I wish my preferences would be internalized by builders! My number one complaint is a refrigerator that juts out beyond the counter. Build the refrigerator in properly!
We have a relatively small master bedroom with a rather large bathroom that includes dressers and the closet for our clothes. Two sinks, one on either side of the room, toilet in a small room off the main bathroom with its own door, works out just fine.
Look- while super fancy and deluxe - that bathroom is for the birds.
"Jack and Jill."
A Jack and Jill bathroom is one that has 2 doors — one opening into each of 2 separate bedrooms. These are for children. If you have a married couple, they are probably going to want separate bathrooms before separate bedrooms, but if they are at the point of wanting separate bedrooms, they're not going to want to use the same bathroom.
Is that blue soup? ....I mean carpet?
Jack and Jill went up the hill
to fetch a pail of water
Over under sideways down
And nine months on, a daughter
House design is terrible in this country. We'd like to buy another house, but everything is just so bad! It's depressing. It's also very expensive. But it's expensive and not even good. And everything looks the same. That kitchen! It's everywhere. You know the one.
Althouse: "I can't picture a husband and wife using side by side sinks. Are people really doing that?"
Are you serious? This is very, very common.
I don't want to imagine going back to a single sink in the master bath.
If your house has a large master bathroom, two sinks work quite well.
Jack and Jill went up the hill
Each with a buck-and-a-quarter.
Jill came down with two-fifty.
Ooooh!
h/t Andrew Dice Clay
Easy fix on the refrigerator issue. Just buy a counter depth one.
We middle class folk who have nicer houses, but cannot afford totally separate bathrooms for ourselves and spouse, struggle along with separate but dual sinks to allow each partner in the marriage some autonomy while brushing teeth in the evenings and performing morning ablutions. It avoids conflicts of interest such as competition for counter space and ownership of sink cleaning duties (which I am almost certain Mick hasn't had to do for many decades himself). In my house, 3/4 of the countertop, and my wife's sink, is 3 inches lower than my meager sink/countertop space. This separation of countertop territory keeps the peace, as she fills her space fully and I don't fill mine much at all, so that height difference also is a small design detail to keep in mind when planning a dual bathroom. You're welcome.
"My number one complaint is a refrigerator that juts out beyond the counter. Build the refrigerator in properly! "
You need custom cabinets, then, which get pricey, quickly. Most countertops and cabinets are not deep enough to swallow a full-sized fridge.
When we built, we made the countertops higher (38") and deeper (30") than normal, which has proven to be well worth the money. But even so, most modern fridges are hinged in such a way that they need to be sticking out a few inches in order for the doors to clear the cabinets when they're opened.
The purpose of a double sink isn't so two people can use them simultaneously. It's so each person has their own sink that they can put their own junk around without someone else messing things up. (Mikee got this right.)
If the carpets are still there, careful vacuuming might recover enough coke to cover the downpayment.
One of our friends from our old neighborhood is a real estate agent. When we went to remodel the master bathroom she counseled us to have two sinks (sorry, old chap, I meant basins) to make the house more marketable when I retired and we downsized. We didn’t want to pay to move the toilet so 54” was the widest vanity we could get, but it did (just!) turn out to be wide enough for two sin … basins.
And she did, in fact, sell our house in the first week it was on the market.
We have two sinks in our master bath (and they look fabulous). It turns out that sometimes my wife and I are brushing our teeth at the same time, so it's handy.
@boatbuilder, there's a note somewhere in that house from Keith saying, "I came. I saw. I vacuumed."
Basins do/did exist in the US. It's what my grandparents called them. But, one was from Ireland, another from England and two were first generation Americans with Swiss parents. So, there you go.
“Jack and Jill went up a hill
To get a pail of water
Jack fell down and broke his crown
Jill went into a nod and did the loose booty”
That kitchen! It's everywhere. You know the one.
LOL. Oh boy do I. I blame HGTV.
We have two sons and one daughter (all now grown and out of the house). We had two bathrooms, each with two sinks. The one adjacent to the master bedroom, AKA the Master Bedroom (but accessible from the hallway) became the designated women's bathroom, and the other down the hall the men's. It worked well, and the arrangement continued after the kids were all grown and out. And no issues about leaving the seat up!
Ann Said:
"House design is terrible in this country."
SING IT.
"That Kitchen!" Yes - It has white or gray cabinets, it has white or gray backsplash, it has white or gray LVT flooring, it has white or gray counters, it has white or gray paint. perhaps a pop of dark blue just to make the copy-cat complete.
The trend to mount the faucet on the wall? Stop it.
Jack and Jill worked in the mill
And business started to slack off
Now the mill owner can't decide
Whether to lay Jill or Jack off.
The REAL question, of course, is how to correctly pronounce "Marylebone"
I'd agree separate bathrooms are the way to go. Double sinks belong in the Kitchen. And calling it a "Bathroom basin" must be a Brit thing. I've never heard anything but bathroom sink. I've usually heard Basin when mentioning a "wash basin" . We used to have one for camping trips.
"House design is terrible in this country.”
It depends on the age of the house and the builder. Our home - which we bought twenty three years ago - was designed and built 45 years ago. It’s a unique, two story design with large bedrooms, two lofts, sunken living and family rooms, remodeled kitchen designed by my wife a courtyard, swimming pool and three car garage. It’s as far from a tract home as can be. So they are out there.
“ We didn't have a toothbrush, when I was a kid. We used to share an old, used corncob.”
We were so poor we shared mint leaves to polish our teeth. One leaf had to last seven of us a week. Then after it dried out we used it to make tea.
ButterflyGirl said...
As someone who has sold homes for over 20 years, for various "big builders"... I can tell you the number one complaint in my newest neighborhood is the lack of double sinks in the master bedroom. And no, not one minority person has been offended by my continuing use of that term!
I ventured briefly into real estate just as the busybodies decided that 'master' bed/bath was raaaaaaacist. I found myself conflicted since I never really liked the term anyway, but felt that not using it would look like caving to the loonies. *sigh*
Our first house in Seattle (a 1954) had the two sinks and I love it. Yes, we would arise at the same time during the week and it was nice to have separate sinks to perform our morning ablutions, plus for the aforementioned individual accouterments. I think it's a very good design feature.
Growing up we did refer to sinks as basins in the bathroom and we also referred to bathrooms as a pullman. Most likely because my dad grew up in mobile homes (originally they were actually mobile and then became fixed location trailers).
We'd like to buy another house, but everything is just so bad! It's depressing.
I concur. Hate it. Even when you go custom from scratch with your own builder and architect they sometimes can't shake the 'appeal to the most buyers' mentality. You have to figth with them a bit. It's depressing...In the northeast there's still a few little gems tucked away here and there, built by some thoughtful people long gone. I still regret passing on that little midcentury modern cottage off in the countryside we would have filled with Lekker furnishings. Still haunts me...
A running joke in old Blondie comic strips was when Blondie needed to get something from the medicine chest while Dagwood was shaving.
Two adults using sinks side by side seems strange to me. Too much like the Army. When we remodeled, we declined the two sink option, but put a second sink in a room adjacent so that someone could shave, brush their teeth, or put on makeup without compromising the privacy of the other in the room with the shower and commode. But hey, de gustibus...
I do not like the hanging bath vanity trend.
I know this is commercial - but at one local Whole Foods - they remodeled the public bathrooms just a few years ago. In the women's bath - the mounted a large long concrete trough-type sink with wall-mirror mounted faucets. Hip.
So much for, Hip... - One faucet is already broken and hanging off the wall. the weight of the massive concrete sink is pulling away and the gross caulk is all pink and black with mold. Edgy trends that irresponsibly attempt to defy gravity with public use. So lame.
I see this trend in residential - and I don't care for it. It's cool to have the light under there - but the passage of time will not obey your grand idea.
Counter Division Multiple Access (CDMA)
On the savanah, it's called a tub.
Don't knock modern home design till you've tried it. We've built two houses (well, had them built) in the last several years, and designed well, they're extremely convenient. Double sinks are de rigueur, and functional in that each sex has different stuff needed to be at hand.
I own a one-story home (2400 sq ft) as old as I am - built in 1954, in Hollywood, Florida. The house was built by a master carpenter who lived in it for years. It was a 2/2 when I bought it. Now it's a 3/3.
Wife uses the bathroom off the room where we sleep. I use one off of another bedroom. It works very nicely for us.
The bathrooms are tiny by today's standards, one "basin" in each. That's fine; I don't go in there to practice my golf swing.
The only thing we need is what everyone needs here but can't have - a basement.
It's pronounced MAR-li-bun, roughly.
Nice apartment, but is the Rolling Truck Stones Thing just outside?
JSM
One sink to brush your teeth, the other sink to wash your smalls.
We have four children sharing a jack and Jill bathroom with two sinks. It's very helpful. One child can be washing a face, one can be brushing their teeth, one is in the middle doing their hair. My oldest daughter has a vanity in her room to cut down on her bathroom time. That's helpful too.
It's probably not as necessary for husband and wife, but when my husband is shaving and I'm washing my hands, it's convenient.
From the commentary above, it sounds like this is a big deal. We only have two bathrooms in our home. One upstairs and one in the basement. No one uses the basement bathroom except myself and that is seldomly. The upstairs bathroom sink is exclusively my wife's domain, because I do everything from brushing my teeth to shaving my head in the shower. Have I been missing out on sink/basin culture this whole time? I feel anxious and somewhat deprived now.
I'm sure Mick had more important things to worry about than how many sinks/basins were in the bathroom. I mean really important things like did he have enough Mars bars because Marianne was coming over later.
Ann Althouse said...
In real estate listings, I'm seeing 2 sinks in the bathroom that goes with the main bedroom, so it's presented as a luxury that the husband and wife are sharing a bathroom.
---------------
Your heteronormativity is showing again, professor...
Ann Althouse said...
House design is terrible in this country. We'd like to buy another house, but everything is just so bad! It's depressing. It's also very expensive. But it's expensive and not even good. And everything looks the same. That kitchen! It's everywhere. You know the one.
-------------
You're too old to have two houses.
What's next? An elevator for your vehicles??
Althouse wrote: I wish my preferences would be internalized by builders! My number one complaint is a refrigerator that juts out beyond the counter. Build the refrigerator in properly!
We bought a counter depth refrigerator. For two people that is more than enough refrigerator space.
My first piece of advice is to listen to your Realtor, if you expect to sell your house anytime soon. When I got my broker’s license almost 40 years ago, we kept running into houses where the builder did something odd, and it wouldn’t sell. We had one who built exceedingly well built houses - 2x6 instead of 2x4 construction, hand built stairs that never squeaked, etc. But he thought that basements were silly. So, we had a heck of a time selling the one. My 1st wife and I ended up with the one next door with a half basement. Even that was hard to sell. But now, finding basements in new houses is problematic throughout much of the country.
Having bought two larger houses (>3k””), and looked at a lot more, by major builders, over the last decade, noticed several trends:
- master suites, closets, and bathrooms keep getting bigger. Two sinks there are standard, along with separate vanities. Tub and shower are preferably separate, with walk in showers also getting bigger.
- two sinks in the 2nd bathroom for everyone else (I.e. kids) living there.
- one sink in guest bathroom and in guest suite.
- elimination of dining and living rooms, replaced by huge open area adjacent to the kitchen.
- kitchens continue to grow. Stepson’s countertop around the island in his new house is massive. That’s where you typically eat at his house. Huge amounts of cabinet and counter space, along with large pantry.
What’s funny is that none of this is really new. Several neighbors growing up had open plans, in houses built around 1960, and one of them had enough stainless steel in the kitchen to make almost any luxury buyer drool even today. In my parent’s 1960 house, we had a double sink in our bathroom downstairs. You needed it with 4 boys getting ready for school at the same time. Then, they traded up in 1985, and the first thing that my mother did was add a second bathroom, by the master bedroom, so that he got a shower and she got her jetted tub. Her bathroom always smelt a bit flowery, which most guys hate. Plus, she covered much of the dark wood throughout the house (built ~1975) with linen wallpaper, and added a formal dining room.
Just finished building a new place, and one of the things my dear wife insisted on was a separate bathroom sink. I think she doesn't want to have to see what's left in the sink when I am in a hurry and don't clean up well enough after shaving or tooth-brushing to suit her white-glove OCD.
As with my closet, my sink and cabinetry are about one-third the size of hers, but already being encroached upon by an overflow of her stuff. I can fit everything I use at my sink in one good-sized dopp kit, and all the clothes and shoes I normally wear can fit in a couple of suitcases and a garment bag, so my dear wife makes sure no unused space goes to waste. I think she will go and look for something to buy on QVC or Amazon just to fill it up....
And yes, she insisted on The Kitchen. Everything is black, white, gray, or gold. I like it, but I can already tell that realtors and interior designers will be scathing about how dated and stereotyped it is twenty years hence, and ordering us to rip it all out if we go to sell it.
Back to the cherry wood and black granite we put in our previous house, I suppose, which they applauded wildly when we built it in 2004, but sneered at when we sold it a few years ago.
We only have one sink. Whoever needs to spit the toothpaste first gets it; the other one keeps brushing.
With the extra space we went for the real luxury: a toilet and a urinal in the master bath.
A basin is something you fill with a pitcher. If your bathroom has plumbing you have a sink. If you bath is plumbed yet you still use a basin, I think you're absurd.
“We bought a counter depth refrigerator. For two people that is more than enough refrigerator space.”
You obviously don’t live with my partner. This summer, we plan to upgrade the refrigerator in MT, probably almost doubling it. Old one is going in my mega-garage next door, mostly for beer, to bribe the guy across the street to help me in various projects (e.g. reloading, watching me on a ladder). Probably all that will fit is one like we have in PHX and LV. The new trend seems to be double wide refrigerators. I am pushing for one in PHX, but it might require sacrificing some of the pantry. Or maybe moving the oven and microwave. Which impacts cabinet space already overflowing. Which gets to my idea of swing down cabinets. And, of course, fold up counter space. My partner is not amused. But then, she also disapproves of my idea of putting in an elevator between the den/parlor downstairs and loft upstairs. I explain that it would broaden the appeal of the house to those who are mobility impaired, and can’t climb the stairs. Usually said after she has climbed, huffing up the stairs, and evicted me from the chair in my (much smaller) bedroom.
“With the extra space we went for the real luxury: a toilet and a urinal in the master bath.”
I built a 2k”” two story garage in MT a couple years ago, and have a separate living area for myself there, that includes an office, bedroom, and bathroom. And, I made sure that the bathroom had a urinal.
My parents had a mostly custom house built in 1960. It was garden level, and the upstairs was my parents’, and the downstairs for the 4 (soon 5) boys. Linoleum floors, cheap doors, etc. and upstairs it was nice carpet, etc. I noted earlier that our bathroom downstairs had a double sink. But the thing that it didn’t have was a urinal. I blame it on our mother growing up in an extended family of almost all females. She just wasn’t used to dealing with boys. My partner, on the other hand, grew up with brothers, and when she remarried, after having been widowed, they had 2+2. And one of the things that she added to the boys’ bathroom was a urinal. It cut down on her work cleaning.
mosby bringin’ teh Deep Purple.
Bruce, is there any profession you haven't tried?
"Build the refrigerator in properly!"
When my grandparents renovated my house in 1921, they added a half-screened entry/half pantry to the back of the kitchen (the only room in the house not wall-papered). The fridge fit in a (too short for modern fridges) niche into the pantry with a small door at the back for venting, so it ended up flush with the wall. There were very few built-in cabinets because the 12x12 room had three doorways.
The dumbest thing they did on both their '21 and '40 houses was to make the doorway from the kitchen to the main hallway an inch narrower ('31) than the others. Was it to remind the kitchen help to stay out of the rest of the house? Of course, it became the most used interior doorway, as everyone parked in the back and entered the houses through the kitchen. I made it 48" wide when I gutted everything and rebuilt the kitchen in 2000, but the fridge ended up in the same place of a much larger room, with its own raised stand and removeable one-piece cover for the back, sides, and top. Sometimes wish I'd made a screened entry porch, but at least it's covered by the giant new carport. Historic district guidelines didn't allow new attached garages.
On a related note; what about these master baths with a toilet exposed in the main area instead of in a closet? I get that couples like to admire the lower portions of their mates, but nobody wants to see what is expelled from those regions. Put the toilet in a closet with a door! Also install an exhaust fan in the closet, because nobody wants to smell it.
Iman wins Spot the Lyric!
I love that one because Ian Gillian was too tired or plastered or excited or something to get the words right, but they just left it in the song.
JSM
A basin and a “spit sink” in the corner for a master bath.
Two sinks in the bathroom? Nope. Two, separate bathrooms is the key to a happy marriage.
Blackmore is a talented guitarist, JSM. A song of theirs I love is “Lazy”. It was great stuff, especially live!
We have a master bath with two sinks, which each are in their own cabinet. Mine is small, but large enough for my essentials, which are soap dispenser, a can of shave cream and razor, toothpaste and electric toothbrush, waterpik, and hair brush.
My wife's vanity is three times as large, and there is not an empty space larger than 2 sq inches.
I had a house in Phoenix many years ago that had been built by a commercial refrigeration company owner. The refrigerator and freezer in the kitchen were wall mounted cabinets with the compressors located in the basement. Avocado green they were, and pretty cool.
"My wife's vanity is three times as large" Seems about right...
If prone to sniffing, separate bathrooms for sure.
Sigh. Leaving it to me to provide the obvious explanation. If young Marianne Faithful is going to stand next to me naked or in her panties brushing her teeth, I’m going to let her.
Lived in that neighborhood in those days. Actually we were around the corner from Mick's first London pad, which in turn was around the corner from Ringo's, sublet at one point to band mate Paul. Connected by George Street, with the signs all defaced with "Harrison".
Whatever disagreements I may have with Althouse views, from time to time, she is now permanently filed under "Sane".
Given the resources to do so, what goes on in the "bathroom" should stay in the bathroom, i.e., Hers and His. If that's not possible, the Althouse work-around of "scheduling" makes perfect sense.
Another design improvement would be a pantry the size of an actual room. I spend a LOT of time in the kitchen and too much of it is on my hands and knees digging in the back of some cabinet for the right something-or-other. There is not enought counter space in the world to keep all that stuff at hand.
One other thing: if you have the means to retain an architect, remember, YOU are the one who will live in the house - not the architect's award for "innovative" design. Shortcut - the first time your architect uses the word "whimsical", fire them!
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