Althouse: "There are basically only two major continents. Antarctica and everything else..."

October 30, 2024

"There are basically only two major continents. Antarctica and everything else..."

"... since South America is connected to North America through Panama, North America is connected to Asia through the Bering Strait, and Asia is connected to Europe, Africa and Australia through the Urals, the Sinai and Indonesia, respectively."

From "How Many Continents Are There? You May Not Like the Answers" (NYT)(free-access link so you can read the definitions and so forth).

I've quoted the position of one geologist, but another says that there could be a third continent, Zealandia, which might not be sufficiently connected to Australia to deserve inclusion in the everything-but-Antarctica continent. There are also geologists who say 6 or 5 or 8 or 9. Just don't say 7.

103 comments:

mikee said...: And if you look at a polar projection, Antarctica looks like a rubber ducky.; 10/30/24, 12:15 PM
tcrosse said...: Widespread incontinence.; 10/30/24, 12:16 PM
Ice Nine said...: A pressing conundrum. Guess I'm going to have to stop thinking about the Roman Empire every day.; 10/30/24, 12:19 PM
Mogget said...: First they went after the nine planets and now they want to reorganize the continents. Can’t we just leave things alone?; 10/30/24, 12:21 PM
Rocco said...: This reminds me of the “Is Pluto a planet?” debates.; 10/30/24, 12:21 PM
AlbertAnonymous said...: Science!; 10/30/24, 12:22 PM
Rocco said...: Is the tomato a fruit or a vegetable?; 10/30/24, 12:22 PM
Kay said...: First thing I thought of as well.; 10/30/24, 12:23 PM
The Vault Dweller said...: Whatever nerds. My very excellent mother just served us nine pizzas, so I'm still ride or die on Pluto being a planet.; 10/30/24, 12:24 PM
ALP said...: Why would I 'not like the answers'?; 10/30/24, 12:28 PM
David53 said...: Which experts are we to believe?; 10/30/24, 12:29 PM
Ficta said...: I thought I'd try this as an exercise. First we need a definition: What would a continent be? A non-ocean tectonic plate seems like as good a definition as any. Okay, quick trip to Wikipedia. Hmmm. Looks like there are Major, Minor, and Micro plates. Let's just count the major plates. Throw out the Pacific plate since it's ocean. So: 6 if you count India and Australia as one plate, but not everyone does, so maybe 7. So 7 is perfectly fine answer. Damn click-bate headline. I guess I'll go skim the article now.; 10/30/24, 12:37 PM
RideSpaceMountain said...: Brought to you by the same people who said Pluto is not a planet.

Pluto is a planet
There are 7 continents
THERE. ARE. FOUR. LIGHTS!; 10/30/24, 12:40 PM
Roger Sweeny said...: There is no Platonic essence of "continent" any more than there is a Platonic essence of "planet" and "minor planet" or "major tectonic plate" and "minor tectonic plate" and tectonic micro plate". You use a definition that is useful and that the people you communicate with can agree to.; 10/30/24, 12:41 PM
n.n said...: One: terra firma. Also, one heavenly body connected by dark matter imperceptible to the seances.; 10/30/24, 12:42 PM
Rory said...: I thought Antarctica was major because it's the one that sits on the turtle's back.; 10/30/24, 12:42 PM
gspencer said...: Everything’s interconnected,

The foot bone's connected to the leg bone
The leg bone's connected to the knee bone
The knee bone's connected to the thigh bone
Doin' the skeleton dance
The thigh bone's connected to the hip bone
The hip bone's connected to the backbone
The backbone's connected to the neck bone
Doin' the skeleton dance

Dem bones, dem bones, dem dancing bones
Dem bones, dem bones, dem dancing bones
Dem bones, dem bones, dem dancing bones
Doin' the skeleton dance; 10/30/24, 12:48 PM
Rocketeer said...: This article is useful to this extent: scientists can’t even agree how many continents there are - I’m certainly not going to believe there’s anything approaching “consensus” on anthropogenic climate change.; 10/30/24, 12:49 PM
Rocco said...: The Vault Dweller
“Whatever nerds. My very excellent mother just served us nine pizzas, so I'm still ride or die on Pluto being a planet.”

But all the Experts say “My Very Excellent Mother Just Served Us Nonsense.”

TBC, I prefer the pizzas.; 10/30/24, 12:52 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: Today, I feel there are 27. I reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow; 10/30/24, 12:52 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; 10/30/24, 12:52 PM
n.n said...: Ironically, people believe there is a universe inferred from signals of unknown fidelity and origin, in what can be characterized as indulgence of a god complex, and accompanying religion narrated in a handmade tale to selfie.; 10/30/24, 12:55 PM
Rocco said...: North America and South America are two separate continents that are swooshing past each other at slow geological speeds. The geology and history are different. Event the biome’s flora and fauna differ on either side of the Darien Gap.; 10/30/24, 12:57 PM
Wa St Blogger said...: I identify as the 12th continent. My pronouns are Panga/Pangis; 10/30/24, 12:59 PM
Crimso said...: It's intended to keep us all off balance, keep the ground shifting. It's why "they" are constantly redefining words. We're the other members of Pink Floyd trying to learn "Have You Got It Yet" from Syd Barrett. Frank Herbert had thoughts on this: "In all major socializing forces you will find an underlying movement to gain and maintain power through the use of words. From witch doctor to priest to bureaucrat it is all the same. A governed populace must be conditioned to accept power-words as actual things to confuse the symbolized system with the tangible universe."; 10/30/24, 1:03 PM
Mark said...: Hold up ... even *this* science isn't settled?; 10/30/24, 1:04 PM
Leland said...: I’m going with Ficta, but combining Australia and India.; 10/30/24, 1:04 PM
effinayright said...: Fun fact: Thurgood Marshall's clerks, knowing he had bladder problems, used to refer to him as "The Dark Incontinent."

True story. Trust me.; 10/30/24, 1:06 PM
Yancey Ward said...: What about Hawaii- which of the two continents is it connected to? What about any island in the middle of our singular ocean- are those just islands unlike this New Zealand continent?; 10/30/24, 1:08 PM
Scott M said...: "COUNTING CONTINENTS: YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WRO--" (click); 10/30/24, 1:11 PM
Jupiter said...: This is not a question of geology.; 10/30/24, 1:11 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: There are only 2 kinds of people in the world. those who think there are only two kinds of people, and those who do not.

And the point is? Nothing. Y'know like saying there are only 2 continents.; 10/30/24, 1:12 PM
Rocco said...: “
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said…
“Today, I feel there are 27. I reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow.”

You’re thinking of the correct number of original Baskin Robbins flavors: it’s 27 not 31. For example, French Vanilla is just a variation on Vanilla. I can’t tell you what the others are, though. I am not a Food Scientist.; 10/30/24, 1:15 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: This entire article revolves around the definition of "Major Continent". Personally, I consider Austrailia and Antarctica figments of peoples imagination. Neither place really exists.; 10/30/24, 1:16 PM
Rocco said...: Scott M said…
"COUNTING CONTINENTS: YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WRO--" (click)

Maybe the other 5 continents simply didn’t answer the phone when the pollsters called.; 10/30/24, 1:21 PM
rehajm said...: Wait until they start fucking with the periodic table…; 10/30/24, 1:22 PM
Jupiter said...: I will point out, that North America is actually separated from Asia by the Bering Strait. But I don't guess you could expect anyone employed by a university to know that.; 10/30/24, 1:25 PM
narciso said...: did these people flunk geography,; 10/30/24, 1:32 PM
Wa St Blogger said...: What the browser AI says:

In conclusion: The definition of a continent is multifaceted and context-dependent, encompassing geological, biological, ecological, and cultural aspects. While there is no single, universally accepted definition, the seven continents listed above (Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Europe, and Australia) are widely recognized and used as a standard classification.

So basically continent is not a scientific term at all.

Is it a continuous land mass not separated by water?
Is it based on the tectonic plates upon which the above water mass rides?
Is is based on geopolitical associations?
Is Madagascar it's own continent?

What is really cool about this is that if Trump makes a claim that "Continent is defined as...", we can then have shouting debates, riots, and hate fests about the meaning of continent. And Matt Walsh will make a movie where he goes about asking "What is a continent?" (hopefully he uses a better disguise or takes a cue from O'Keefe and uses attractive women to honeypot unsuspecting scientists.); 10/30/24, 1:39 PM
rhhardin said...: There's too much emphasis on water.; 10/30/24, 1:42 PM
tcrosse said...: By this reckoning there's only one ocean.; 10/30/24, 1:46 PM
Kevin said...: You think that's crazy? Did you know that all cats are fundamentally either black or orange?!; 10/30/24, 1:55 PM
Ampersand said...: There is no tactical advantage for an academic in a borderline obsolescent discipline like geography to put forward claims that are intuitive, traditional, or common sense. Unless you are willing to pretend that your views are an astonishing departure from the past, you are not justifying your campaign for tenure or department chair.; 10/30/24, 1:55 PM
Wa St Blogger said...: You think that's crazy? Did you know that all cats are fundamentally either black or orange?!

You don't have that quite correct. Cat's are both orange and black, but we can't tell until we open the box.; 10/30/24, 1:58 PM
Peachy said...: continent deniers.; 10/30/24, 2:01 PM
Ampersand said...: Many oceanographers believe that. See The Blue Machine (2023), by Helen Czerski; 10/30/24, 2:01 PM
Gospace said...: There are 9 planets. Pluto counts..; 10/30/24, 2:12 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Things must be opening up in the Grant World,
Gotta get that name out there somehow.
Hell if they can't define a woman by a unanimous Supreme Court decision there's a chance! College Degrees!; 10/30/24, 2:12 PM
mikeski said...: Take it up with Cartographers For Social Equality.; 10/30/24, 2:15 PM
Gospace said...: Now that's funny! A Schrödinger joke. Funny or not funny depending on whether or not you understand it...; 10/30/24, 2:16 PM
John in PA said...: How do you get published/funded if your answer is “Yep, 7 seems about right.” ?; 10/30/24, 2:23 PM
PM said...: Momentarily read that as Zoolandia and thought of Blue Steel.; 10/30/24, 2:28 PM
Bob Boyd said...: If you're a globalist working towards the elimination of national borders this is the next logical step. Then there will be no reason why anyone should not be able to go anywhere except Antarctica which is reserved only for scientists and a few wealthy tourists.; 10/30/24, 2:32 PM
catter said...: Ask the writer whether Brooklynites are Long Islanders.
This can lead into a discussion of different geographies; eg political, social, geologic, etc.; 10/30/24, 2:32 PM
F said...: So you're unburdened by what has been?; 10/30/24, 2:34 PM
tcrosse said...: All cats are grey in the dark.; 10/30/24, 2:36 PM
Captain BillieBob said...: One.
Pangea, the mother of all continents.; 10/30/24, 2:38 PM
Iman said...: Mötley Crüe World Tour ‘24: Incontinence on 7 Continents; 10/30/24, 2:41 PM
Rabel said...: "Only two major continents"!!! Damned Globalists.

As a world famous geologist said "I thought this was America."; 10/30/24, 2:44 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. What more do you need?; 10/30/24, 2:48 PM
mindnumbrobot said...: The Science Is Settled™; 10/30/24, 2:53 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: Experts once believed in phlogiston, so they had that nailed down, too. No wonder they cut off Lavoisier's head. Attention, Elon Musk!; 10/30/24, 2:54 PM
mindnumbrobot said...: Perhaps some Earth, Wind & Fire?

https://youtu.be/7tuJfud4W6U?feature=shared; 10/30/24, 2:55 PM
n.n said...: It's a magma pool with a single lava field, albeit disjointed to the seances.; 10/30/24, 2:58 PM
Narr said...: Of course!; 10/30/24, 2:59 PM
Skeptical Voter said...: You know there are a lot of "answers" in the New York Times that I don't like. Ho hum another day at the silly factory dealing in its own reality.; 10/30/24, 3:01 PM
Bob Boyd said...: We need to start sending more of these applicants to trade schools.; 10/30/24, 3:03 PM
Rabel said...: I don't know how many continents there are but there are definitely 5 elements.Big Badda Boom; 10/30/24, 3:11 PM
Peachy said...: OT
ABC accidentally aired election results of Harris winning PA by 5% with 100% in; 10/30/24, 3:31 PM
Indigo Red said...: There are four lights. Right?; 10/30/24, 3:34 PM
ronetc said...: Well, it's technically a fruit. But a wise person does not make a fruit salad with it.; 10/30/24, 3:35 PM
n.n said...: There are 21 major consonants in the English language.

Some letters, however, can represent more than one sound, including both consonant and vowel sounds. These letters are known as “sometimes consonants.”; 10/30/24, 3:37 PM
mikee said...: That canal in Panama is a deal breaker for me - two continents!; 10/30/24, 3:55 PM
mikee said...: All cats are gray in the dark. And that's gray spelled with the "a" not the "e" me boyo.; 10/30/24, 3:57 PM
mikee said...: "Education" uses all the vowels, but so does "War & Peace."; 10/30/24, 4:01 PM
Justabill said...: I may not like the answers? I may not care one way or the other.; 10/30/24, 4:03 PM
Arashi said...: Well it is in the NYT, so just click bait. Obviously a subject that only 'experts' are concerned with, one which does not really affect the rest of us. So just make up your own number and criteria and go with that.; 10/30/24, 4:09 PM
ron winkleheimer said...: I've always thought that Europe is only a continent because the map makers were European.
https://www.britannica.com/science/world-map; 10/30/24, 4:17 PM
Saint Croix said...: Old world.
New world.
Third world.
Cold world.
Plus that place where we dumped all the prostitutes.

I count 5.; 10/30/24, 5:09 PM
Aggie said...: No, in the world of Plate Tectonics, one is over-burdened by what has been (eroded).; 10/30/24, 5:31 PM
boatbuilder said...: Bingo!; 10/30/24, 5:35 PM
Quaestor said...: Was the Roman Empire located on one continent or two?

There, now you can keep thinking about Rome like any decent heterosexual American male.; 10/30/24, 5:42 PM
boatbuilder said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/30/24, 5:47 PM
Mary Beth said...: I don't normally hold grudges, but I will never forgive Neil DeGrasse Tyson for leading the battle to take away Pluto's planet status. It doesn't affect my life in any way, but for some reason it just felt really wrong to demote Pluto.; 10/30/24, 5:49 PM
Quaestor said...: No, Antarctica sits on four elephants, who in turn stand on a titanic turtle, who swims in Cosmic waters held in a basin on the back of a yet more titanic turtle. Then it's turtles all the way down... but none are called Gamera.; 10/30/24, 5:51 PM
Mary Beth said...: Tomatoes are berries.; 10/30/24, 5:51 PM
Lazarus said...: Long before the word "Eurocentrism" was common it seemed daft that Europeans counted America as one continent because of the narrow land bridge between North and South America and thought Europe and Asia were two entirely different continents.

I suppose "Zealandia" is the product of similar chauvinism. While it's a great name, Madagascar has as much claim to be a continent and Greenland has more of one.; 10/30/24, 6:05 PM
Narr said...: "Plus that place where we dumped all the prostitutes."

Vegas, or DC?; 10/30/24, 6:06 PM
Lazarus said...: Brooklyn and Queens are Europe to Nassau and Suffolk's Asia.

Or maybe it should be other way around.; 10/30/24, 6:07 PM
Iman said...: “And tell me grey seal
How does it feel?”

What’s all this then?; 10/30/24, 6:09 PM
Josephbleau said...: Back 40 years ago, when I got my BS in Mining Engineering, Plate tectonics was just getting a hold on the structural geology field. There still needed a few old guys to die to make it fully accepted.

Continents are ambiguous because some people define them as the continental plates floating on the mantle that sometimes come together as "Pangeas." Pangea is a meta continent, a continent of continents. Some define continents socially, where all folks in a continent should be pals, and if not you are off the continent.

Why is Asia a separate continent than Europe? Who The F Knows, whitey vs the yellow man? In the end it is all political. China wants Taiwan to be in Asia, the Philippines must be in Asia and not grouped with Australia/ SWPA.

Pluto was demoted so some guys could get a highly influential paper published.; 10/30/24, 7:14 PM
Mason G said...: "There still needed a few old guys to die to make it fully accepted."

Careful, now. You're going to upset the Climate Cult crazies by suggesting that the science isn't settled.; 10/30/24, 7:22 PM
Michael McNeil said...: There are 9 planets. Pluto counts.

If “Pluto counts” as a (greater than “dwarf”) planet, then Eris—basically exactly the same size as Pluto; but a quarter-again as massive; while orbiting up to twice as far from the sun—must also be a (full-blown) “planet.”

In other words, if Pluto is a planet, then there are (at least) ten planets, not (never again!) just nine.; 10/30/24, 10:33 PM
Michael McNeil said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/30/24, 11:45 PM
Michael McNeil said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/30/24, 11:57 PM
Michael McNeil said...: Yes, Madagascar ought to count as a continent, in my view (and—picking up on the Pluto≠planet debate—perhaps as a “dwarf” continent; ha ha!). I would regard it a continent because that fragment of continental terrain separated from the ancient supercontinent of Gondwana independently of the other pieces—which is to say, independently of Antarctica, South America, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and India (the latter now united with Asia). If those other fragments (excepting India) now deserve to be called “continents”, then so does Madagascar, one would think.

Madagascar is an island, thus regarding it as a continent (even a tiny one) makes a certain sense—since we generally regard different continents as being (largely) separated by water (perhaps with an isthmus connecting it or narrow strait dividing it from others). However, if one considers geology in other places, then oftentimes the results hugely fail to match up with what we think of as “continents.” For instance, the southwestern part of the U.S. state of California isn't really part of geological North America at all; meanwhile, North America itself extends well into Siberia—nearly all the way to Japan—etc., etc.

Despite these various definitional distinctions, the kind of division between continents (or meta-continents) proposed at top does make a certain sense—which everyone would easily see if the oceans were a lot lower. On planet Earth, our oceans considerably overfill their deep ocean basins, spilling seawater in many places across wide swathes of the much-higher continents. If our oceans were far lower, the (tectonic) continents would tower in great plateaus over much reduced (in volume, but not area) seas.

My partner Ann and I have a tradition of reading together; and as it happens we're now in the midst of a novel—Poul Anderson's The Day of Their Return (part of his Technic Civilization series)—which is about just such a world (called Aeneas in the story). As pictured, the planet physically lies intermediate between Earth and Mars—geologically it has plate tectonics, thin (though breathable) air, together with far lower oceans. Thus, it incorporates the towering plateau-continents described above, with rivers cascading along their courses over the edges of the continental plateaus, down to the seabottom(s) altitude-miles below, in great canyons and waterfalls.

Anyway, if Earth were like that, with far lower oceans, but was otherwise physically much the same as now, folks could easily see that these great plateau masses we know as continents are separated—except in the cases of Zeelandia and Antarctica—by relatively narrow and nearly-as-high passes (which would be straits or isthmuses on our world) as the bulk of the land itself. In other words, there's relatively little separation between (sub) “continents” at all, compared with the deep seabottom basins dividing those three (“meta”) groups of continents.; 10/30/24, 11:57 PM
glacial erratic said...: There is a type of academic that publishes revisionist blather. Not to advance knowledge, but to get published. Juvenile contrarianism..

Such academics are not uncommon.; 10/31/24, 12:01 AM
Rocco said...: Ceres was considered a planet when it was first discovered. Then it was changed to a really big asteroid when it was discovered to be part of the asteroid belt. Now it’s a dwarf planet today.; 10/31/24, 6:27 AM
rastajenk said...: Do all continents have a continental divide?; 10/31/24, 8:04 AM
Michael McNeil said...: Rocco: The giant asteroid Vesta, too, was considered—for over a half-century! during the 19th century—to be a “planet”; but like Ceres got de-throned from that august rank after the existence of the manifold bodies of the asteroid belt was recognized. Pluto, too, got busted in rank after its membership in the outer-system Kuiper Belt was recognized—similar-sized Eris being another member; there are many others.

Ceres and Vesta (the two largest “asteroids” in their ”belt“), taken together, make up a large proportion—more than a third—of all the mass in the asteroid belt. Then there's the fact that the two constitute pretty much basically the last surviving “protoplanets” of the belt (much less the rest of the solar system).

Though Vesta and Ceres nowadays orbit relatively near each other in the asteroid belt, that coincidence appears to be a consequence of earlier migration (yes, planets migrate)—Ceres inward and Vesta outward—during preceding ages. Vesta's geology and geological history in particular is notably similar to that of the other “big-boy,” so-called terrestrial planets of the inner solar system. Like them Vesta melted through and through early in its history, as a result of heat produced by decay of radioactive isotopes (e.g. Aluminum-26)—deriving from the effluent from a nearby supernova which “enriched” the preceding solar nebula—with the consequence that those newborn inner-system planetary bodies thereafter physically and chemically “differentiated,” into each possessing an inner nickel-iron core, silicate-rocky mantle above that, together with rocky crust on top. Vesta did that too.

(The ultra-dense and metallic asteroid Psyche, which a Nasa spacecraft is en route to right now, appears to be the surviving nickel-iron core from a similar—though otherwise completely disrupted by primordial stupendous impact—differentiated protoplanet.)

For the foregoing reasons in particular (I have others—though none so strong), I would grant both Vesta and Ceres—not just Pluto and Eris—the title of planet; or at least add Vesta to the rank of “dwarf planet.”; 10/31/24, 10:08 AM
Michael McNeil said...: rastajenk: “Do all continents have continental divides?” Well, yes and no.

All continents which have well-defined drainage basins will have continental divides. However, continents will often possess arid interior geographic basins (e.g., Asia, Australia, North America) having no existing connected drainage to surrounding sea(s)—the Great Basin in the state of Nevada in the U.S. being a notable example. In much of that state, creeks and rivers (e.g., the Humboldt) emerging from interior mountain ranges simply peter away in the desert, rather than flowing on to eventually arrive at an ocean.

That can change, though. University of Montana geologists David Alt and Donald W. Hyndman, in their great Roadside Geology volume on Montana (1986—among the best in the series, in my humble opinion), discuss how this happened after an ancient dry-desert arid period came to an end, millions of years ago, in what's now the state of Montana.

In earlier times Montana had for some time been much like Nevada is now: inhabited by dry, closed basins containing no actual water draining from valley to valley. Meanwhile, over the ages up to that point, geological down- and uplifting as well as accumulation of sediments had greatly distorted the former 3-dimensional physical drainage layout—so that even were sufficient regular precipitation to arrive, the former rivers could no longer simply resume flow.

So, how did normal drainage start up once more when rainwater began regularly arriving again? Each formerly-desert basin begin filling with lake(s), which filled to the very brim then began spilling over passes in various directions into neighboring valley(s), also containing lakes. The chain of spillovers eroded into channels and canyons, ultimately emptying the lakes—producing the somewhat odd river and valley patterns of western Montana.; 10/31/24, 11:12 AM
Anthony said...: You often get these kinds of arguments when a profession adopts a colloquial term for something(s) and then tries to make a specific definition of it post hoc. 'Planet' was just a Greek word meaning 'wanderer' as their visible paths weren't as consistent as 'stars'. In archaeology we wrestle with virtually every term because most of it was just picked up from standard language and then people tried to systematize it for something resembling scientific use. At the moment, the group I'm with is trying to delineate 'sites' that were found on a survey (AZ); trouble is, there are artifacts spread over a wide (like a few hundred acres) area of varying density. What spatial configuration constitutes a 'site' and what's just a slightly-above-average concentration?

There are probably several hundred definitions of 'culture' floating around, even though that is the core concept of what anthropologists supposedly study.; 10/31/24, 11:21 AM
Rocco said...: RCOCEAN II
“This entire article revolves around the definition of Major Continent”

A Major Continent was promoted from Captain. A Minor Continent is not allowed to buy alcohol or tobacco products.; 10/31/24, 12:55 PM