September 24, 2024

"Under traditional targeting principle... [the] pager attack... passes that basic test with flying colors.... It might be the most precise targeted strike [on] a military force embedded in a civilian population in the history of war.

Says David French, applying the United States's DOD Law of War Manual, in the new episode of the Advisory Opinions podcast, "The Legality of Israel’s Beeper Attack" (audio at transcript at Podscribe)(I've slightly edited the transcript to match the audio).
Under traditional targeting principles, which require necessity, distinction, and proportionality, necessity means: Is there a military need for this? Distinction means: Are you attacking only military targets? And proportional is: Are you using no more force than is necessary to accomplish your legitimate military aim?

This pager attack under that construct passes that basic test with flying colors. Is there a military necessity to take out a large number of commanders and troops of a military force that is firing rockets at you? Yes, 100%. 
Was there distinction here? Yes. The pagers that were manufactured, these were not manufactured for civilian use. They were manufactured for, specifically for Hezbollah use. They're transferred specifically to Hezbollah as part of their military communication system. These were not consumer electronics distributed in the Lebanese population. So yes, there was distinction.

And then was there proportionality, was there no more force than it was used necessary to, to accomplish the military purpose? Yes.... They were very small charges that were quite obviously designed to wound or kill the person who's carrying the pager and be relatively safe. You can only use the term relatively 'cause you're dealing with an explosive.... And.... there were a few civilian casualties, which is horrific, but as a general matter, it might be the most precise targeted strike of any of a military force embedded in a civilian population in the history of war.

So if you couldn't take this on through these traditional criteria, a number of people online and really this got super amplified by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez referred to a provision in the DOD manual that governs mines, booby traps other devices. 
So here here's a provision. It says: "It is prohibited in all circumstances to use booby traps or other devices in the form of apparently harmless portable objects that are specifically designed and constructed to contain explosive material. This prohibition relates to booby traps, manufactured resemble items such as wash watches, personal audio players, cameras, toys, and the like. This prohibition is intended to prevent the production of large quantities, of dangerous objects that can be scattered around and are likely to be attracted to civilians, especially children."

So this is referring to the practice that you say saw for example, the Soviet army famously used in the war in Afghanistan, where it would create children's toys or harm, things that looked completely harmless and the hopes that regular Afghans would pick them up cause an explosion, kill kids, kill civilians. And so the law of war implication here is really obvious, and it would apply for example, if Israel just flooded a bunch of iPhones into a whole bunch of iPhones say into Lebanon, that could have been used by anybody. That's clearly what the intention here for this prohibition is.

Whereas this was very intentionally manufacturing an instrument for specific military use in response to specific Hezbollah concerns about the insecurity of their cellphone network. So this was, these were not just consumer goods spread around. This is not what that prohibition was intended to encompass. And so then if this is not covered by... the intended prohibition here, well, then what covers it? And then you go from there to another provision of the DOD manual that says the use of mines, booby traps, and other devices is subject to the same rules and principles that govern the use of... other weapons to conduct attacks.

So again, this is necessity, distinction, proportion. And so that's the general debate....

The discussion continues. Read (or listen to) the whole thing. 

117 comments:

Leland said...

I don’t need or want David French to tell me what to think.

Sebastian said...

Whoa. David French says something sensible?

RideSpaceMountain said...

Some kill chains take minutes or seconds. That kill chain took years. Masterful.

The Drill SGT said...

Perfect attack, perfectly targeted, perfectly legal. Ask the Iranian Ambassador

Wa St Blogger said...

I wonder if AOC amplified the issue of Hezbollah intentionally firing rockets at civilian targets in Israel, or is she only going to weep at the fence for the accidental Palestinian victims rather than any intentionally killed Israelis?

Bob Boyd said...

Seems like Israel's critics have been calling for Israel to use more targeted strikes. They got what they said they wanted, but they still aren't happy.
AOC would complain if the Israelis hung every single member of Hezbollah with his own brand new rope.

Jupiter said...

Now do the fire-bombing of Dresden.

Oh Yea said...

A US DOD manual is not the same as the Law of Armed Conflict.

Mary Beth said...

I would like some evidence that AOC is familiar enough with the DOD manual that she would recognize a violation. (But not familiar enough to see the exception.) I doubt she is, so who is she getting her propaganda speeches from?

n.n said...

Why wield a machete, when a scalpel will do, and is politically correct in huffinpuff society. I say this with sincere admiration of IDF's creative solution to preserve baby lives matter (BLM).

Oh Yea said...

Why is this even an issue? Israel is not bound by a US DoD Manual.

Yancey Ward said...

There is only one rule of war with two parts: (1)if you win, there are no rules; (2) if you lose, you will be punished for everything you did while fighting.

rhhardin said...

The Japanese had a pretty universal kill the Americans attitude but they revered the emperor, who finally said cooperate with the Americans. One guy had to be persuaded by the carnage to ignore the military coalition in his government. It's doubtful that targeted military targets would have done that.

Even so the repatriated Japanese prisoners lived in disgrace for not dying in battle.

PM said...

I can't even remember targeted exploding communication devices (TECDs) used in a movie.

RideSpaceMountain said...

It's an issue because she's an idiot. She's not even very useful. Stalin would've gulaged her long ago.

n.n said...

This is the antithesis of modern warfare (e.g. ethnic Springs, sexes) fought through proxies and with diverse noncombatants (i.e. collateral damage). #BabyLivesMatter

Bob Boyd said...

Even a clogged-up douche nozzle with stage 4 TDS finds a nut every once in a while.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Well well well Frenchie gets one right.

n.n said...

The DoD manual is informative because it implies that Obama, Trump, Biden et al are in consensus with Netanyahu.

William said...

The plan was brilliantly conceived and flawlessly executed. It was a triumph for the Israelis, but consider this: There is one rule as inflexible as gravity in the Middle East: Any action taken or not taken in the Middle East ultimately leads to more conflict and death........I think they ultimately reached peace in the Thirty Years War when they ran out of people to kill.

tim maguire said...

Why? What doe sone have to do with the other? Or are you one of those control freaks who thinks he gets to tell other people what to write about/what to care about?

Original Mike said...

Kinda like the 2020 election.

narciso said...

Blind squirrel and all that

Bob Boyd said...

I said the same thing, but my comment was ruthlessly and quickly deleted. Admittedly my comment had a little more color when it came to nick-naming David French. Okay, it was gratuitously and extravagantly insulting, but also a fair and accurate description according to experts.
But anyway, yeah. He has a point on this one.

Michael K said...

And, there was a last minute attempt by the Japanese army to overthrow him and keep killing.

Michael K said...

The Rule, as I understand it, is that when 30% of military age men are dead, the war comes to an end.

Scotty, beam me up... said...

So AOC and the other anti-Semitic apologists who back the Middle East terrorists got the vapors over this. Hezbollah were using pagers as tools of warfare for communications since they realized smart phones were a perfect homing device for Israeli missiles. So Israel got the brilliant idea to get into Hezbollah’s supply chain and provide them with the modified pagers. Even the Iranian ambassador to Hezbollah had one of the pagers, adding more proof of Iran being the “stick that stirs the (toxic) drink” that is Hezbollah (and Hamas and the Houthis). I love the idea that Israel just terrorized the terrorists. Yet AOC and the like are pissed that terrorists are being terrorized. Just rich…

narciso said...

yeah, they have blown up synagogues like the AMIA as far away as Buenos Aires, because reasons,

Skeptical Voter said...

Gotta love AOC. She's not smart, but she keeps bringing the idiot juice each and every day. Not much different from the day when she was Sandy From The Block--the bimbo behind the bar with the big boobs and big smile--continuing to serve the "overserved" before they staggered out of the bar.

Lazarus said...

When this tactic comes home and is used against us, we may think differently about it.

NotABoomer said...

lololol.
David French will be burning in hell telling us what a military warrior/attorney/Christian "expert" he is...

You don't believe him, do you ann? Does his penis and "military service" (he was an old man JAG officer) convince you he's correct? Or...

Is he telling you, and the rest of the NYT readers, what you want to read and think? Do you really believe the IDF strategies are ... "winning". Do you think the high death count proves Israel's strength... or ultimate weakness??

Imagine if the IDF had spent all the time and resources they put into this "exploding pager/walkie talkie" trickery into actually getting down into the Hamas tunnels and pursuing the return of their hostages. All this did really, if Hamas is truly evil, is to ensure that if any Israeli captives are returned alive, the male military ones will likely come home castrated... Haha. Their balls gone, if they indeed live... Turnabout is fair play and all. Poor Israel. Military strategy is not their forte, no matter what the chuckleheads like David French are paid to tell ya, goy grrls...

Eat it up, ann. No American grandkids for you to feed into Israel's meat grinder... I daresay the Jews will have to clean up this mess without help from the US soldier boys bailing them out, once again. We've played this game before. Time for the Israelis and the diaspora to step up...

Kakistocracy said...

This was an absolute masterclass in spy craft and one that will hopefully set Hezbollah back significantly. Israel dealt a serious blow to the terrorist organizations ability to communicate and coordinate.

While the Iranian proxy Hamas and Hezbollah jihadis are busy playing checkers, Israel is playing 3-D chess.

NotABoomer said...

You better hope that's true, Mikey K.
Your grandbabies are almost of age for military service, no?
Let's conscript em and see how devoted Mr. Dr. K. is to providing for Israel, when it's not just his tax dollars but his own flesh and blood being asked to sacrifice so Abram's children can inherit all the land their G-d promised them back in the day...

NotABoomer said...

ann does.
He was a law scholar, a soldier, and a practicing Christian, he says.

ann is lacking in all three areas and is still looking for someone to tell her what to think and who to vote for... Mrs. Cohen has her boys to think of, after all. They're endangered in America now, some say. Not safe for Jewish people or those with Jewish surnames anyway...
I doubt it's true, but you know how those sticky myths take.

Jason said...

"Not a Boomer" is a deranged. twisted, evil, and stupid piece of shit.

Carry on.

Jason said...

The destruction of Dresden was a year and a half overdue.

NotABoomer said...

Lol... imagine if all that energy had been devoted to training the IDF soldiers to pursue Hamas terrorists and how to retreive hostages. Remember when the dumbbells shot down three of their own surrendering under a white flag...?

Sorry, but no amount of terroristic trickery can account for the IDF's lack of preparation or border security last October, nor all the failed maneuvers since. A high civilian death count isn't "winning" to anyone but the weak settler ladies who want to see the Palestinians cleared out before they will feel safe in their... (wait for it) Promised Land.

Pray for them, but never ever emulate Israel.
America with our history of freedom in an independent Constitutional democracy is soooo much richer than anything they've managed to acquire from the Brits as post-Holocaust spoils.

They cannot independently maintain the Brits' gift. How much longer do you think a diverse America will allow the barnacles to free ride off our nation? Not much longer, I dare say. The "wise men" like David French just aren't believable any more. If you're looking to men like him for wisdom, you're in the minority... White Men don't read as Authority anymore for good reason. They need some winning actions to back them, and men like French are losers through and through: military, classroom, courtroom, family relations... Nobody wants to be like him or his anymore. Even if it pays well.

NotABoomer said...

They’re eating the cats — They’re eating the dogs
This was an absolute masterclass in spy craft and one that will hopefully set Hezbollah back significantly. Israel dealt a serious blow to the terrorist organizations ability to communicate and coordinate.

While the Iranian proxy Hamas and Hezbollah jihadis are busy playing checkers, Israel is playing 3-D chess.
-------------

LOL. You fools really believe Israel is clever and winning?
The hostages and people living in Northern Israel want some of what you're snorting. lol

NotABoomer said...

Wait until somebody kills more children than Israel... especially if they are Israeli children. Oh how you will laugh and clap and cheer then.

NotABoomer said...


"Whoever Kills the Most Civilians Wins..." GO!

Silly games you people with too much money and too much time on your hands play...

NotABoomer said...

I'm a goy too.
Smarter than you, lil one.
I pay money to protect your country and your people. I'm all that's standing between Israel and total destruction... and me and mine are sick of paying for all this carnage. Best start thinking of ways to defend yourselves without picking MY pocket.

Game's almost over... Poor Israel will fare about as well as the hostages under Netanyahu. If you value death and invest in, don't be surprised at the returns you reap.

NotABoomer said...

Nobody is going to shed any honest tears the day God calls "men" like David French and Dick Cheney home...

One Fine Day said...

I see we've attracted another ranting anti-Semite. Must be attracted to the stench of the crap Timmy in Petrograd posts in here.

NotABoomer said...

Lol. If disagreeing with Netanyahu's military strategy makes me anti semitic, tar and feather me, baby...

The IDF couldn't find a hostage in the dark if you glued tied them together and took all their American-made weapons away... They are not a warrior people, no matter how many international laws they break and how many civilians they kill... Hth. Keep watching the show! The Jewish people really have performed this act for the world before; we all know how it ends...
*sad tear rolling down the cheek*

mikee said...

Why are the leaders of Hamas allowed to live undisturbed in Qatar, in a known location, without suffering a JDAM through their window? Realpolitiks or is there another reason they still live?

Butkus51 said...

Lost me at David French

What does Popeye have to say?

Original Mike said...

"The RSD got started last week with Israel’s three-part virtual decapitation of Hezbollah’s organization … when exploding pagers removed Hezbollah bits a bit further down than their large heads.

That was followed up, as I’m sure you know, the next day by exploding walkie-talkies.

When Hezbollah’s remaining leadership began to meet in person to overcome their crippled comms, the Israeli Air Force bombed the meetings."

I wasn't aware of that last part. Well planned.

loudogblog said...

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

narciso said...

Wow another lame Hamas troll, the gliders were training in beirut, under the auspices of the late fuad shakr among others, the ones the US hadn't bothered to go after in 40 years

loudogblog said...

Obviously there are activists out there who study these things to support their activism.

loudogblog said...

Unless you're Israel. Then you get blamed even more for winning.

traditionalguy said...

War crime?Admiral Yamamoto and the P-38s comes to mind.

loudogblog said...

It's not a movie, but remember that Twilight Episode with Martian Landau, where he was targeted by an assassin while trying to escape the Soviet Union for the west? The assassin placed the bomb in the telephone on Landau's nightstand and it was set to detonate after the phone was answered.

traditionalguy said...

The UN was created by FDR and wife but only after Harry Ttoounconditional surrenders from Germany and Japan. That has to be first.

The first rule of peace is 2 sides both wanting peace, if either one wants war there will be war no matter how many UNs are created.

loudogblog said...

This might be a wake up call for the U.S. military to revise their rules and prohibit soldiers from carrying personal electronics into battle. The whole, letting soldiers carry cell phones thing, bit the Russians fighting against Ukraine especially hard.

Keith said...

What's up with NotABoomer? He/She seems mostly incoherent except that he (she?) thinks that Israel wants USA to fight her battles. Israel has always been adamant they want no foreign fighters fighting for her. They want only the weapons and freedom to fight their own battles. Not just now, but always. There has never been a hint of a request for anyone but their own people to fight for them.

Jonathan Burack said...

NotABoomer's reference to "the Brits' gift" caught my eye. All by itself it tells me that aside from Jew hatred, the pro-Hamas left is utterly ignorant of Israel's history. I guess he's got the Balfour Declaration in mind (which came about 36 years AFTER the Zionist immigration to Palestine began). It was a help. But in fact, Britain was horribly derelict in its conduct of the Mandate, cruel in its refusal to let Holocaust victims emigrate to Palestine after 1945, and opposed the creation of the state of Israel when the UN brought it into being in 1947-48. Anyway, just to clarify that for NAB, not that it will stop him I am sure.

mikee said...

I wonder how long the Hamas leadership would keep Americans hostage if a Missouri class battleship, or heck, even just a single US destroyer, stood off the Gaza coast, hitting any targets of opportunity and broadcasting their hits via drones above, live on YouTube? Is a 5" or a 16" shell hitting any Hamas targets proportional to terrorists holding hostages?

PM said...

No, but that counts.

narciso said...

Yes they aren't smart about Husseini clan Hitler's enabler and before that Nebi Musa and the Hebron Massacre or Izzat Al Quaddine the forerunners of Hamas, but you can only fit so much on a cue card

MadTownGuy said...

The chief downside of this tactic is that it probably won't work a second time, at least not with low-tech devices. The upside is that it worked this time.

mikee said...

The Chairman, 1969, with Gregory Peck, has the remote controlled, explodable listening device implanted within Peck. Consideration is taken over killing Mao when Peck shakes hands with the Chinese leader by exploding Peck's head.

narciso said...

in the only round of the lebanese civil wat that mattered we shelled the Chouf, which was the base of the Druze, we also evacuated the bulk of Fatah, yet Hezbollah sought to target us,

mikee said...

The President's Analyst, 1967, predated Kingsmen, The Golden Circle, by 50 years. Both used implanted comm devices as weapons. ATT was involved in one movie, Sam Jackson in the other.

mikee said...

I remember the picture of Arafat leaving Lebanon by boat. Why he wasn't left in the ocean has always eluded my understanding.

Keith said...

NotABoomer - the reality is the radical Muslims want to kill Americans most of all. The question is not is there war between the West and radical Islam. The answer is yes. The question is - do you want Israel fighting it with American bombs or do you want that war fought in the malls in America? You don't get a choice of not war. War is here. Your choice is who do you want fighting and where do you want that war? It will be a lot expensive giving Israel bombs and other warmaking equipment. It will be a lot more expensive in blood and treasure when they come here and blow up schools and transmission lines.

Rusty said...

Who built the temple on Temple mount NotABoomer?
What do you hate the most? Jews or the money we spend on them?

Keith said...

NotABoomer -
If you believe in the Bible, G-d gave that land to the Jewish people. If you do not believe in the Bible, Jewish people ruled the land from thousands of years ago until most were expelled by the Babylonians, then returned to rule until most were expelled by Rome. There was always a remnant of Jews living in the land however. Palestine referred to Jewish Israel, as seen in the Palestine Orchestra or Jews raising Palestine funds to repatriate to the Holy Land. Money was raised to purchase land in Israel for Jews and that tiny sliver of land was what the Jewish people declared as the beginning of the Jewish State in 1948. All the surrounding arab armies declared war and sought to exterminate the Jews but miraculously Israel won that defensive war and found it gained substantial land. That pattern repeated with attempted genocide by the arabs against the Jews, Jewish victory, and gaining land in 1967 and 1973. I appreciate that you hate Jews but please verify the truth in history before writing.

Jaq said...

"where it would create children's toys or harm, things that looked completely harmless and the hopes that regular Afghans would pick them up cause an explosion"

No, the cluster munitions themselves, just like American manufactured ones, are little objects that a child would pick up, neither side manufactures them to look like children's toys.

Here is video of this same style of munition used against civilians by the Ukrainians from Human Rights Watch

https://rumble.com/vx4sw2-ukrainian-government-uses-cluster-munitions-on-civilians-in-donetsk-human-r.html

Deep State Reformer said...

Contra David French, the real actual "law of warfare" is to hurt the other side to such an extent that they can't or won't fight you any further. Treaties, laws, Field Manuals, and yes, even law books, don't matter in this regard the least. War is not a tort. Why is it that WP just will not understand that winning (in war) really IS everything (N.b. Douglas MacArthur, Vince Lombardi). If Israel won't or can't utterly exterminate an existential enemy like Hamas & etc then I don't see much of a future for it and it will end up like the Crusader Kingdoms (1095 to 1270 AD) that recaptured the Holy Land for Christendom but that only lasted a few centuries before being recaptured by the natives. And time is not on Israel's side. And FDF anyhow.

Maynard said...

We have a new troll, just signed up last month.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

You're right, NotABoomer, what Netanyahu should do is simply announce the Palestinians will unconditionally surrender.

And that Israel will bomb occupied cities / towns out of existence, one per day, until they do.

You'd favor that, right?

Original Mike said...

Usually it's an old troll, dressed up in new clothing.
Is there someone who spam posts like this on Israel?

n.n said...

Under modern cancelation theory, everyone, their grandma, and baby lives matter, are classified as plausible, even probable "burdens". #HerToo

Fortunately, traditions die hard.

Aggie said...

"The Legality of Israel’s Beeper Attack" . My, what a nice, friendly neighborhood French has selected to play in, and in such a nice part of town ! But let's get some of the heavy lifting out of the way, first, shall we? Let's back up a little bit, and write a preface to this story called "The Legality and Moral Premise of the October 7th Attack on Civilians, by Hamas", as a way of setting the scene - a popular writer's trick.

Big Mike said...

12th century assholes wiped out by 21st century technology. I like it!

Ann Althouse said...

I removed all the comments of someone I believe is not a good faith commenter. If you replied to that commenter, I had to take you out too. Sorry.

Christopher B said...

Looked to me like the original handle might rhyme with Swerve Dawson

Iman said...

French and his Queen of Queensberry Rules.

Later, pansy!

Iman said...

Derve swerves and swishes… strike 3.

Iman said...

AKA Derve the Swerver

Bob Boyd said...

It re-appeared.

Iman said...

+10

RideSpaceMountain said...

A person can be indifferent to the struggles of sand people and admire craftsmanship from afar. I have always said and will continue to say that I believe Israel needs to be far more independent from American influence and support and vice versa, but it looks like they did this pretty much independently.

They did that like big boys wearing big boy pants. That was ballsy. I admire ballsy. Now all they need to do is stop meddling internally in US affairs and supplying all their own munitions needs and we'll be kosher.

narciso said...

No hes aggressive more derangsd as if dialing to eleventy solves the problem

Leland said...

It isn't, which is why I skipped reading it. The sad part is that anyone would need David French to explain it to them, but AOC is probably that person.

John henry said...

I'm in agreement with the use of the pagers and walkie talkies as well as the evaluation about legality. I also love the concept and congratulate the Israelis or whoever did this.

I thought there was a law of war about using devices intended to maim. Like dum-dum or exploding bullets. It seems that the ratio of maiming to death from the pagers was very high. 12 killed, about 3,000 wounded. The 250:1 disproportion makes me wonder if that was the purpose?

Again, I have no problem with that. As a military tactic it may be the way to go. An injured person requires care, consuming resources. A dead Jihadi is a heroic martyr, off enjoying his 72 virgins etc.

A Jihadi laying in a hospital bed with no hands, no face, no genitals etc, is simply an object of pity. "Poor Salomon. Isn't it a shame what happened to him. And his poor family too. I sure would hate to end up like that."

Now they need to do something like this with other stuff. Turn on the A/C? Kaboom! Open the refrigerator? Whammo! and so on.

It would not take many to get people spooked by ANY electrical device.

John HEnry

Leland said...

Rare to see it in movies where the explosive was hidden within the telephonic device. However, plenty of movies show the use of a telephonic device as a method to detonate an explosive external to the device. Fitting it inside the device is a neat trick, but not as neat a trick as getting Hezbollah supply chain to issue them. That second part is more movie worthy.

Dixcus said...

Bro, they are "doing this independently" because Democrats are rats. I cannot believe this is what the Mafia came to. Home of a bunch of RATS.

John henry said...

In fairness, the US had pretty much the same policy. Halsey was famous for a billboard saying "Kill Japs, Kill Japs, Kill more Japs. You will help kill the yellow bastards if you do your job well."

There was racial animus but there was also military logic. For a Japanese soldier to surrender was a great shame and they would not do it. Rather than surrender, they would blow themselves up to kill American captors. We had little alternative but to kill them pre-emptively.

Let's not forget that the Japanese murdered a quarter million unarmed Chinese civilians in Nanking in a few weeks in 1937. They pretty much deserved anything we did to them.

John Henry

Robert Cook said...

Given that that we have long asserted the "necessity" of annihilating two cities full of civilians in Japan almost 80 years ago in order to defeat an already defeated nation--actually, to show off our awesome power to the Russians--it's only to be expected we will justify and applaud any use of violence against any cohort of human beings...if it suits our purposes or those of our allies. All war is murder; all participants in wars are murderers; but, those deemed murderers and those victims will differ based on who is asked.

Original Mike said...

"It seems that the ratio of maiming to death from the pagers was very high. 12 killed, about 3,000 wounded. The 250:1 disproportion makes me wonder if that was the purpose?"

Makes me wonder if the numbers came from Hezbollah.

Dixcus said...

"Israel is not bound by a US DoD Manual"

They literally tortured and crucified our Lord and Savior after walking him through the market to cheering crowds carrying the cross they would murder him on. I think it's a given that they are not bound by the Geneva Conventions.

RideSpaceMountain said...

Here's a devilishly clever idea. After this is all over and people start rebuilding structures and houses, they could use their network to plant 10lb remote-detonated satchel charges near major structural supports of the new buildings (it would have to be stable and last a long time, maybe something like PBX5902).

Abracadabra, self-destroying structures!

John henry said...

Just by way of no harm, from today's Navy Times:

The U.S. has kept an increased military presence in the Middle East throughout much of the past year, with about 40,000 forces, at least a dozen warships and four Air Force fighter jet squadrons spread across the region both to protect allies and to serve as a deterrent against attacks, several U.S. officials said.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2024/09/22/as-conflict-looms-where-are-us-forces-in-the-middle-east/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=navy-dnr

Dixcus said...

If you're carrying still around a government tracking device (cell phone), you kind of deserve to be targeted.

Skeptical Voter said...

Ah well, the heck with Hezbollah if they can't take a joke--or an exploding pager. And for those who worry about the ratio of maiming to death from the pagers, a disabled soldier is a larger burden for his cause than a dead one. Of course if Abdul had the pager in his pants pocket next to "Little Mo", well Abdul won't be reproducing either, either so there is that.

John henry said...

Not a Boomer,

President Emeritus Trump HAS For Dr K's grandchildren and mine. My oldest grandson will be 17 in a couple months. Prime draft age in Kamala's middle east death kettle.

The Middle East has been a war without mercy for 5-6,000 years. Currently reading Numbers where the Israelis just killed all the Midianites except for the virgin girls who were kept as slave. A bit later on, the Midianites et al will do the same thing to the Israelis. It has been an endless cycle.

Donald Trump, with his Abrahamic accords made the first significant success, in 5,000 years, to stop the killing.

Nobody else in history has been able to.

John Henry

John henry said...

Hooray for P-38s! Seriously, some people then and now objected to that targeting killing. Somehow it is OK to have bunches of troops shooting at each other but to take out leadership

Pretty stupid if you ask me.

And hooray for the code breakers too. That P-38 didn't stumble across Yamamoto by accident. They knew exactly where he was going to be. A big concern was by downing Yamamoto we would give away that we had broken their codes.

That might have been the case with Germany but in Japan, it was a matter of bushido pride that their code was unbreakable. McCarther allegedly said that we could have published their code on the front page of the NY Times and they would have kept on using it, refusing to believe it had been broken. A bit of hyperbole, perhaps, but not by much.

John Henry

Aggie said...

But how can you live with yourself, living in a society with such a weighty moral problem hanging around its neck? How can you bear to enjoy the fruits of living in such a peaceful and law-abiding land of plenty, when it's founded on such moral rot? Why not move to a better country, one with a clear conscience, to put your mind at rest?

John henry said...

Bullshit. Nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved 500,000 to a million Japanese lives as well as hundreds of thousands of US lives.

We still have over 100m Purple Heart medals in inventory. That is left over from the invasion planning and is after issuing them copiously in Korea, Vietnam and all our other glorous wars.

On the day the Japanese finally surrendered, after 3 major cities destroyed (Don't forget Tokyo) and the threat of a nuke a week until they did surrender there were still 3mm (3,000,000, 3 million) Japanese troops still fighting in China and there were a couple of days when it was not clear they would obey the emperor's call for surrender.

The japanese were hardly defeated in September 45. Only an idiot would think so. The Japanese certainly did not.

John Henry

John henry said...

Just in case I was not clear. I am not worrying about the ratio, simply pointing it out and cheering them on

Jim at said...

Wait until somebody kills more children than Israel... especially if they are Israeli children. Oh how you will laugh and clap and cheer then.

Well, now we know what you were doing on October, 7. Thanks for the heads-up.

gilbar said...

serious Question:
Of the people that think the pagers were a war crime (or disapprove, at ALL)..
Does ANYONE know of ANY ONE of them that ALSO disapproved of Oct 7th?

Or, do they all think that either:
Oct 7th never happened..
Oct 7th was Perfectly FINE, because ALL Israelis are considered combatants..
[and that it is Perfectly FINE to murder and rape combatants]
Or, maybe just:
Oct 7th was Perfectly FINE, 'cause it was done to The JEWS
??

Jupiter said...

Necessity. Distinction. Proportionality.

n.n said...

All's fair in lust and abortion? Perhaps AOC would prefer a Pro-Choice (i.e. indiscriminate abortions that are equitable and inclusive) handmade tale to rap around the fire with her ghoulfriends.

Sheridan said...

NAB at 1244hrs - Either an AI fake or a non-American. Made reference to "...our history of freedom in an independent Constitutional democracy..." The United States is a Constitutional Republic. Imposter QED.

Michael McNeil said...

If the U.S.—rather than atom bombing two Japanese cities (that were indubitably military targets), resulting in a prompt end to the war (acknowledged and ordered by the Japanese authorities, and dutifully obeyed by the Japanese military)—if America had instead launched the Allies' planned invasion of the home Japanese Islands, the following would likely have resulted:

1) The first part, an invasion of the smallest major Japanese home-island of Kyushu, was not set to occur according to the Allied timetable until November 1945—three months after Hiroshima and Nagasaki otherwise ended the war in our reality. (Moreover, it's not unlikely that that first home-island invasion would have failed, because we've learned since that Japanese forces defending Kyushu had been reinforced and were much larger than anticipated.)

2) But even presuming that the Kyushu invasion had succeeded on schedule, the subsequent Allied invasion of the principal remaining Japanese home-island of Honshu wasn't due to occur until November 1946, some 15 months after Hiroshima.

Note that in the late war context of 1945, between 250,000 and 400,000 Asians were still dying every month at the hands of Japanese forces in theaters of the war outside Japan. Do the math. The carnage occurring across the rest of the erstwhile Japanese Empire during that time period (and even after, because Honshu wouldn't fall immediately, or likely even particularly fast) would have been horrific. Nor were the Japanese just about to meekly give up and surrender ('cause they were supposedly so scared of the Soviets—no!), pace leftist revisionist myth.

It's painful to acknowledge the fact, but the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of lives, across Asia as well as within Japan itself.

James K said...

That is an evergreen comment. Just fill in the blank: "Israel's critics have been calling for Israel to __________. They got what they said they wanted, but they still aren't happy." Examples: Pull out of Gaza and allow self-rule (2005). Agree to a Palestinian state (several times).

Marcus Bressler said...

Another troll. Seems like the azzhat from Instapundit. Jesus Christ on a stick. Spare us.

Rusty said...

You realize that this tactic was for Hezbolah.

Oso Negro said...

@John Henry - Clever as the exploding pager caper was, a lot more discussion would occur were the Israelis to kill all of Hezbollah AND take their virgin daughters as slaves. That's the good old way.

Zev said...

They killed people who send rockets daily into Israeli towns to murder civilians.

Rusty said...

On Kyushu alone there were 5000 aircraft. All of them, at that point, were kamakazi planes. There were over half a million troops. Granted they weren't front line troops. Many were old or invalided. But just like the pilots they weren't expected to live. That does not include the armed civilians on the island.

Tina Trent said...

Bob Boyd: I saw what might be your first comment, but if you said something even more artful than that, it is surely worth seeing.

Rusty said...

JH. Cook is immune to facts.
Dresden, while declaring itself an open city, was a nexus for German rail and road transportation. Moving men and materiel around. Hence the firebombing.

GRW3 said...

Civilians? Or previously unknown Hezbollah operatives? Children? Most of the murders in Chicago are done by children, per the progressive definition, but not surprised if some of the pagers "fell off the truck" and were given/sold to others.