Althouse: "It was technically illegal, of course, but everyone was benefiting.... By the end of the ’70s, however, loft living had become quite fashionable..."

१७ जून, २०२४

"It was technically illegal, of course, but everyone was benefiting.... By the end of the ’70s, however, loft living had become quite fashionable..."

"... and some landlords were looking to cash in, pushing out the artists for a wealthier clientele. The artists pushed back, and in 1982 state lawmakers enacted Article 7-C of the New York Multiple Dwelling Law, which is commonly known as the 1982 Loft Law. This legislation gave protection and rent stabilization to people who had been living in these spaces. It also required landlords to bring the units up to residential code. When the law was enacted... there were tens of thousands of artists living in lofts across the city. Now just a few hundred remain...."

From "A look inside New York’s historic artist lofts, the last of their kind" (CNN). Nice pictures of present-day artists lofts.

४६ टिप्पण्या:

rhhardin म्हणाले...: Rent stabilization = prevent new apartments from being built.; १७/६/२४, ६:१५ AM
rehajm म्हणाले...: Rh beat me to it- repeat after me: rent control creates housing shortages…; १७/६/२४, ६:२९ AM
rehajm म्हणाले...: …econ texts regularly regale us with the benefit artists provide. They move in to slums and abandonment because it’s cheap, they create attractive neighborhoods then get pushed out when the bankers drive up prices. They are the catalyst id gentrification. They must hate that…; १७/६/२४, ६:३१ AM
gilbar म्हणाले...: BECAUSE the law was enacted... there were tens of thousands of artists living in lofts across the city. Now just a few hundred remain...."
fify

rent control always (ALWAYS) works the same; १७/६/२४, ६:३३ AM
rehajm म्हणाले...: I think I want to be Ken and Flo’s cat…; १७/६/२४, ६:३६ AM
tim maguire म्हणाले...: I've been in a few of those lofts and they're amazing spaces. Beautiful, often a bit run down, but big and with architectural details you won't see anywhere else.

And they will never be available to almost anyone else because they would cost us 10-20 times what those artists pay. Because that's how New York works.; १७/६/२४, ६:५५ AM
cfs म्हणाले...: There is nothing so bad that government interference cannot make worse.

When I hear the phrase "Things couldn't possibly get worse", I cringe because I know a government agency will take that as a challenge.

In the past natural market forces create a balance between supply and demand. Any imbalance was soon righted by those natural market forces. Now, the government steps into any and every situation in which they can find a victim and in which they see an imbalance. Then things get worse.; १७/६/२४, ७:०० AM
Dave Begley म्हणाले...: Frank Mason was quite the artist!; १७/६/२४, ७:०८ AM
jaydub म्हणाले...: "...they create attractive neighborhoods then get pushed out when the bankers drive up prices."

Please explain how it is that bankers drive up housing prices.; १७/६/२४, ७:१० AM
God of the Sea People म्हणाले...: They do look like amazing spaces. But, as others have pointed out, the rent control aspect is problematic. You notice that the artists featured in the story are almost all elderly, because they have been hoarding a resource that the market would have priced much higher. The caption of one photo says the residents have been in the loft since 1965 with $70 rent. How much has that risen in the intervening years? I don't have any clue about current NY real estate prices, but 20 years ago my sister shared what was basically a closet in Brooklyn with two other people- and her share of the rent was about $2000/mo.

Shout out to industrial musician JG Thirwell in one of the pictures.; १७/६/२४, ७:११ AM
boatbuilder म्हणाले...: Are any of these special people the least bit concerned about the amount of heat energy that gets wasted in these spaces? Or not a problem as long as the landlord pays for it?; १७/६/२४, ७:१२ AM
RMc म्हणाले...: Years ago I was in NYC when I overheard a conversation, with two people talking about lofts: "I'm looking at this loft", "I'm looking at that loft".

I cut in and said, "Tis better to have loft and lost than never to have loft at all!"

They laughed, then went back to their conversation.; १७/६/२४, ७:१२ AM
rehajm म्हणाले...: Please explain how it is that bankers drive up housing prices.

Artists create pleasant neighborhood- hip and happening artist people begat other cool people who create cool small shops and an urban ‘scene’ which begat people interested in the neighborhood lifestyle- people with the resources to develop properties…and people with the economic resources to pay for those developed properties. People like me who work in financial services…

BANKERS….; १७/६/२४, ७:२६ AM
gilbar म्हणाले...: i'm reading (well, listening to) Economic Facts and Fallacies By: Thomas Sowell

His section on rent control is most entertaining.
WHO are the winners of rent control? People lucky enough to ALREADY be renting when the control starts

WHY would you start building apartments in a rent controlled area? you WOULDN'T
Why would you start RENTING an apartment in a rent controlled area? you COULDN'T
BUT! if you're a a resident in the loft since 1965 with $70 rent.. YOU WIN

The future belongs to those who show up.. Rent controlled apartments belong to those already on the lease; १७/६/२४, ७:४६ AM
jaydub म्हणाले...: Rehajm, interesting analysis, however I'm not sure how artists creating pleasant neighborhoods and a cool urban scene and neighborhood lifestyle reflect negatively on bankers. Don't other people voluntarily buy those neighborhood properties, people as you say, "with the resources to pay for those developed properties?" Do bankers force the artists to sell the lofts they created so that other people can be forced to borrow money from bankers in order to purchase properties for unreasonable prices? Does Alvin Bragg know about this scam?; १७/६/२४, ८:०० AM
Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...: “They do look like amazing spaces. But, as others have pointed out, the rent control aspect is problematic. You notice that the artists featured in the story are almost all elderly, because they have been hoarding a resource that the market would have priced much higher. The caption of one photo says the residents have been in the loft since 1965 with $70 rent. How much has that risen in the intervening years? I don't have any clue about current NY real estate prices, but 20 years ago my sister shared what was basically a closet in Brooklyn with two other people- and her share of the rent was about $2000/mo.”

Good friend spent much of her inheritance in the late 1970s building a large loft in SoHo. It became a hub for black artists and musicians. Asthma in their daughter intervened, forcing her and their daughter to move to a drier climate. Husband tried to spend enough time in NYC, but ultimately the landlord was able to evict them, allowing him to raise the rent from several hundred dollars a month to $4-5k a month, wiping out maybe ultimately a half million dollars in investment by the couple. They thing is that the value of the loft space without their investment would be far lower. At the time, the building had a small factory or other industrial space on the first floor, and 3-4 floors above that of empty, fairly decrepit, unused, living space above. Yes, it was a bad investment, but they really couldn’t have predicted the Asthma. Besides, they were artists. What would you expect?; १७/६/२४, ८:०२ AM
Narayanan म्हणाले...: no one caught on yet that RentControl is Taking?; १७/६/२४, ८:०५ AM
rehajm म्हणाले...: Jaydub I’ll leave you to make whatever point it is you’re trying to make. I’m merely repeating the accurate tale of urban gentrification. Perhaps you’ll prefer the first google hit to my explanation:

Researchers have long identified four distinct stages of gentrification. The first is when the artists, so-called hipsters, and other individuals move into a low-income neighborhood and start repairing its often vacant structures. The fourth is when gentrification is mostly carried out by developer conversions and an influx of business or managerial middle class; १७/६/२४, ८:१६ AM
Rocco म्हणाले...: RMc said...
"Years ago I was in NYC when I overheard a conversation, with two people talking about lofts: "I'm looking at this loft", "I'm looking at that loft".

I cut in and said, "Tis better to have loft and lost than never to have loft at all!"

They laughed, then went back to their conversation."

The sad thing is... If you did that today, not many people would get the joke. Tennyson is a now decolonized dead white guy after all.; १७/६/२४, ८:२९ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "Rent stabilization = prevent new apartments from being built."

There are tons of new apartment buildings being built in NYC. The problem is they are multi-million/billion dollar spaces built only for the wealthy. Many of these new-built luxury mansions in the sky remain empty of residents, as many of them are purchased merely as investments by wealthy foreigners, who seldom or never occupy "their homes." Others remain unsold, as they become a glut in the market.

Given that most NYC (and even Manhattan) residents are working stiffs, the greater need is more apartment buildings that are affordable to working stiffs.

There are only approximately 960,600 rent stabilized apartments remaining in NYC, (and only about 24,020 rent stabilized apartments) as of 2023. Obviously, the vast majority of NYC residents are NOT living in apartments subject to rent controls. Over time, the numbers of rent controlled and stabilized apartments will shrink even further: as residents in rent controlled apartments die, and as rents for rent stabilized apartments increase over time until they reach a certain threshold, combined with the residents' incomes, they reach a nexus at which time the apartments will come out of rent stabilization permanently.

A city can only live if it is affordable for the majority of its citizens, who will always be everyday working people. Even with the large population of millionaires and billionaires in NYC, they are a minority of the city's population. Whatever means are necessary and effective in maintaining affordable housing for the non-wealthy majority should be employed.

I am happy there are still artists residing in their rent-protected loft apartments. When they moved in, the lofts were unwanted, mere raw and grimy empty industrial structures. It was the influx of artists into empty neighborhoods and unused loft spaces that made those spaces and those neighborhoods livable and desirable. The same is true in DUMBO. Fewer than 20 years ago, it was a desolate area, seemingly empty of occupants, but home to...yes, many artists. I remember going out there one Thanksgiving about 15 years ago to join friends who lived there. I walked a half-mile from the subway to their building and I did not see a single person on the streets for the entire walk. (It was dusk, early evening.) Now, every square foot of the area is thronged with people. DUMBO is the new SOHO, a luxury location with some of the most dramatic and beautiful views in all of NYC.

A city too expensive for anyone but the wealthy is a sterile and dead city.; १७/६/२४, ८:३६ AM
Temujin म्हणाले...: I'd rather not live in a city any longer. But if one had to, or chooses to live in a city, I've always thought a loft lended itself to be a more creative space than any other.; १७/६/२४, ८:५७ AM
Aggie म्हणाले...: Lovely loft spaces, but the problem with rent control schemes like this, is that it creates a climate of envy with 98% of the population, at the unreasonable luck of the artists and other beneficiaries, to have such beautiful spaces for virtually nothing. And then a culture arises of people that use the worst elements of human nature to game the system for themselves - at the expense of others.

Welcome to the Big City ! Now let us tell you about our Social Justice program, and check your 'privilege'.; १७/६/२४, ९:०२ AM
Zavier Onasses म्हणाले...: Hmmmm. Government picking winners and losers - again. Rent seeking. Literally.; १७/६/२४, ९:१५ AM
jaydub म्हणाले...: Rehajm, my point is that bankers do not cause an explosion of real estate prices, and they don't. Prices are artificially inflated when politicians, urban planners and regulators interfere with the housing market.; १७/६/२४, ९:२५ AM
n.n म्हणाले...: Grandmothers' apartments have progressed in price.; १७/६/२४, ९:३३ AM
Biff म्हणाले...: Dave Begley said..."Frank Mason was quite the artist!"

Indeed.

https://estate.frankmason.org; १७/६/२४, ९:४९ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "There are only approximately 960,600 rent stabilized apartments remaining in NYC, (and only about 24,020 rent stabilized apartments) as of 2023."

Correction: "...and only about 24,020 rent controlled apartments...etc."; १७/६/२४, ९:४९ AM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "Dave Begley said...'Frank Mason was quite the artist!'"

Meh!

I took life drawing classes for many years at the Art Students League of NY, where Frank Mason was an instructor for many years. I never much cared for his subject matter or his actual painting, (which is not to say he wasn't technically accomplished). His students tended to copy his style and subject matter, (as is true of most students and their teachers).; १७/६/२४, १०:०२ AM
Joe Smith म्हणाले...: Not sure if the same as a large open space with high ceilings, but many of these have been turned into offices and workspaces in San Francisco.

They always seemed like they'd be fun to live in , but reality may be different...; १७/६/२४, ११:१४ AM
Greg the Class Traitor म्हणाले...: "The artists pushed back, and in 1982 state lawmakers enacted Article 7-C of the New York Multiple Dwelling Law, which is commonly known as the 1982 Loft Law. ... When the law was enacted... there were tens of thousands of artists living in lofts across the city. Now just a few hundred remain...."

Good job, "artists"!

You sure did keep yourself from being "pushed out" there!; १७/६/२४, ११:४७ AM
Marcus Bressler म्हणाले...: RMc said..."Years ago I was in NYC when I overheard a conversation, with two people talking about lofts: "I'm looking at this loft", "I'm looking at that loft".
I cut in and said, "Tis better to have loft and lost than never to have loft at all!"
They laughed, then went back to their conversation."

Well, that's show business.; १७/६/२४, १२:५७ PM
Marcus Bressler म्हणाले...: I suppose the windows on those loft apartment could have been opened (to allow for a breeze) in the summertime. But wouldn't all that air space be a bear to heat in the winter?; १७/६/२४, १२:५८ PM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "'The artists pushed back, and in 1982 state lawmakers enacted Article 7-C of the New York Multiple Dwelling Law, which is commonly known as the 1982 Loft Law. ... When the law was enacted... there were tens of thousands of artists living in lofts across the city. Now just a few hundred remain....'

"Good job, 'artists!'

"You sure did keep yourself from being 'pushed out' there!"

They weren't pushed out. They succeeded in preventing that. The lofts' residents and children are protected under the rent stabilization laws. The diminution of "tens of thousands of artists living in lofts across the city" is a consequence of the artists aging and leaving or dying out over the half century since that time. Except for the hardy "few hundred" who still live and remain in their lofts making their art. Bravo to them!; १७/६/२४, १:२१ PM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "I suppose the windows on those loft apartment could have been opened (to allow for a breeze) in the summertime. But wouldn't all that air space be a bear to heat in the winter?"

Sure! In the early years many or most of them were certainly quite raw. Those who stayed over time spent their own money and labor improving and enhancing the spaces.; १७/६/२४, १:२४ PM
Yancey Ward म्हणाले...: "I cut in and said, "Tis better to have loft and lost than never to have loft at all!"

LOL!; १७/६/२४, २:१५ PM
Jupiter म्हणाले...: The more interesting question is why all these lofts existed and were vacant in the first place. There aren't any vacant lofts around here.; १७/६/२४, २:२९ PM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "The more interesting question is why all these lofts existed and were vacant in the first place. There aren't any vacant lofts around here."

They were once the locations of factories and other businesses where products were manufactured and/or large groups of employees worked in the spaces. Manhattan was once a city of industry! (One famous factory in Manhattan was the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, which became infamous due to the fire that killed 146 workers back in 1911. The building still stands, with a plaque on the outside identifying its historical significance. It's near Washington Square and stands surrounded by many New York University buildings, in the area that can be informally considered the NYU "campus.") There is still an active "Garment District" remaining in NYC, but it's not the thriving hub of clothing manufacturing it once was.

Over time, the factories either went out of business or they relocated elsewhere, leaving the empty lofts.; १७/६/२४, ५:०६ PM
Greg the Class Traitor म्हणाले...: Robert Cook said...
Me: "'The artists pushed back, and in 1982 state lawmakers enacted Article 7-C of the New York Multiple Dwelling Law, which is commonly known as the 1982 Loft Law. ... When the law was enacted... there were tens of thousands of artists living in lofts across the city. Now just a few hundred remain....'

"Good job, 'artists!'

"You sure did keep yourself from being 'pushed out' there!"

They weren't pushed out. They succeeded in preventing that. The lofts' residents and children are protected under the rent stabilization laws. The diminution of "tens of thousands of artists living in lofts across the city" is a consequence of the artists aging and leaving or dying out over the half century since that time.

Everything that is morally wretched about teh Left, in one post. Thank you Cookie.

"I've got mine, screw everyone else"; १७/६/२४, ७:११ PM
John म्हणाले...: I loved that the first loft pictured said it was 5,000 square feet (that is floor space, now multiply by the height to get total space). That would be a McMansion! In NYC, for a pittance. Too bad it is an asset you cannot pass on, as though you owned it. I guess there are a lot of nieces, etc. still living in their aunt's place. But still, it is crazy to have a market where the owner can only benefit if the renter dies or voluntarily leaves.

Milton Friedman and George Stigler wrote an essay about rent control back in its heyday (just after WWII). They said there was no way to destroy a housing stock faster, except for bombs. I can't find the essay just now, but John Cochrane talks about it here:

https://www.grumpy-economist.com/p/rent-control-rhetoric; १७/६/२४, ७:१३ PM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "Everything that is morally wretched about teh Left, in one post. Thank you Cookie.

"'I've got mine, screw everyone else'"

Maybe you acquired the name "Class Traitor" because you failed school. THIS (artists making abandoned lofts into their studios) is not an example of THAT (I.G.M.S.E.E.)! In fact, that's the philosophy and life behavior of Trump and pretty much everybody you admire on the right.

You're so seething with infantile fury at...everybody...that you seek out even completely inapt "examples" of that which you hate in order to give yourself an excuse to vent! Dude, I'd hate to be you...you seem so miserable.; १७/६/२४, ७:४७ PM
RCOCEAN II म्हणाले...: I'd like to see the bedrooms and kitchens. Plus, i can imagine the heating bills in NYC winter!

As for Rent control. Good God, somebody needs to shoot the Econ 101 Professors for brainwashing a whole generation of midwits into thinking "Rent Control" is a bad thing. And prevents "new Apartments" LOL.

In places like SF and NYC demand exceeds supply. Landlords aren't building more apartments because of zoning laws and NIMBY. It has nothing to do with rent control. I guess most of Althouse commenters own Apartment buildings and mad as hell that instead of getting 10-15 percent return on their money every year, they're only getting 5. Boo hoo.

Rents in NYC for new apartments have gone up 400 percent in the last 30 years. Why should seniors and others be forced to move?; १७/६/२४, ९:२० PM
RCOCEAN II म्हणाले...: I know most people are idiots, but instead of parroting some theory, why don't you look at real life? Forcing people to pay for housing isnt "Free Enterprise". If your landlord doubles your rent, society isn't richer, in fact its a drag on the economy. He's getting rich but society doesn't benefit.; १७/६/२४, ९:२३ PM
Old and slow म्हणाले...: Wow, rcocean is not only a Jew hating asshole, he's also an economic imbecile. Probably imagines that all landlords are greedy Jews.; १७/६/२४, ९:२४ PM
Old and slow म्हणाले...: Prices efficiently allocate scarce resources and drive investment money where it is most needed. Mess with that signaling mechanism and malinvestment ensues. If you are too stupid to comprehend this, then that is your loss.It explains a lot.; १७/६/२४, ९:२७ PM
Mason G म्हणाले...: "Prices efficiently allocate scarce resources and drive investment money where it is most needed."

It appears some people think that Top Men in the government do a better job of that.; १७/६/२४, ९:५१ PM
Robert Cook म्हणाले...: "Wow, rcocean is not only a Jew hating asshole, he's also an economic imbecile. Probably imagines that all landlords are greedy Jews."

Heh! I was thinking RCOCEAN II had added some rationality into the thread. As for your accusation he is a "Jew hating asshole," where's your evidence, buster?

"Prices efficiently allocate scarce resources and drive investment money where it is most needed. Mess with that signaling mechanism and malinvestment ensues. If you are too stupid to comprehend this, then that is your loss.It explains a lot."

It explains shit. It is a dispassionate and tidy obfuscation of the roiling real world behavior of economic actors, and ignores the real life destructive consequences. Economic theory (and such "truisms" as above) are conceived and written from a biased perspective on the more chaotic and less easily summed up reality. It is written to express particular ideologies about how the world works--and how those writing the theories think it should work--to make it all seem logical, efficient, and, (Ha!), fair. It is pat and tidy and makes reality seem so "scientifical" and shit.

The reality is that those with money and power are always angling to grab more power and wealth.; १८/६/२४, ८:११ AM