From "Joe Biden: The Old-School Politician in a New-School Era/After more than half a century in Washington, President Biden has learned to make deals and work across the aisle. But that instinct is rarely rewarded in today’s political climate" (by Peter Baker in the NYT).
Remember Eric Cantor?
The article continues, depicting Biden as sorely burdened:
The last few years have been marked by trauma: the deadly pandemic and resulting economic calamity, the schisms in society, two wars, mass shootings.... And then of course there are the drug addiction and legal travails of his surviving son Hunter, who was just convicted of federal gun charges. As several advisers put it, there is “no lightness” in this White House. “It always goes back to pain and loss,” ruminated one aide. “Pain and loss.”
But cheer up, because...
Perhaps no one in modern American life... has transformed pain into purpose more than Mr. Biden. He has made Beau into his political touchstone, citing his son’s death to connect with voters.... He has few strong interests other than politics and family.... His staff could not name any movies or television shows he has watched lately other than assuming it would be something Jill Biden would have picked. He... rarely cites something he has read....
And here's a sentence that needs a factcheck: "He makes a point of calling each of his children and grandchildren nearly every day." He doesn't call Navy Joan every day, does he? Last I saw, "Joe still hasn’t reached out to his 5-year-old granddaughter" (NY Post).
७५ टिप्पण्या:
You could put George Carlin up there getting a hummer from 2001 Monica Belluci, and it's not going to "perform" out of Biden's dogvomit economy.
Our elites are congenital retards who think the working class can be bought off with a cute enough chest. It turns out when inflation starts Weimaring that stops being true. No wonder they fear Trump.
Once my dad lost the ability to focus for a short period of time, he lost interest in reading and watching movies. He was a voracious reader, so it was particularly sad for us to see him lose that interest. Joe is clearly on that glide path.
"After more than half a century in Washington, President Biden has learned to make deals and work across the aisle."
For example?
"Once my dad lost the ability to focus for a short period of time, he lost interest in reading …"
It's what I fear the most.
So when did Althouse's blog turn into a comedy site? Most of my reactions to anything from the WaPo or NYT is a simple haha. Thats rich. Or that's Rich. Either way.
From "Joe Biden: The Old-School Politician in a New-School Era/After more than half a century in Washington, President Biden has learned to make deals and work across the aisle. But that instinct is rarely rewarded in today’s political climate" (by Peter Baker in the NYT).
Joe Biden made deals with GOPe republicans who were basically democrats.
Making a deal with a scumbag like Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan is only an argument that will work with nevertrumpers.
The only people republican voters hate more in DC than the democrats like Biden are the traitors Biden made "deals" with.
Amazing the way anything can be turned into a "strength" for Biden and it's our fault for not giving him the credit he deserves.
national security veterans nonetheless credit him with navigating maturely...
You mean like the national security experts who told us Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation?
pacwest said...
So when did Althouse's blog turn into a comedy site? Most of my reactions to anything from the WaPo or NYT is a simple haha. Thats rich. Or that's Rich. Either way.
I am hoping that we can start these conversations in a more intelligent and meaningful place in the future.
The NYT's/WaPo are getting really boring and straight up delusional.
Last month it was ‘Why don’t voters give Joe credit for his rip roaring economy?’ This month it’s ‘Why don’t viters give Joe credit for being the peacemaker and cutting deals in Washington?’
Recycle old memes- it’s good for the environment!
"So when did Althouse's blog turn into a comedy site? Most of my reactions to anything from the WaPo or NYT is a simple haha...."
Because I'm choosing and editing things down to expose the comedy. I don't add an explicit nudge. I'm not being fair. I'm looking for trouble.
He has made Beau into his political touchstone, citing his son’s death to connect with voters
More crap from Pravda On The Hudson.
He's turned his son into a punchline by lying about the manner and location of his death time after time.
Pain and loss. Commander. Never forget
None of these Commie-Pinko sites mention Biden and cognitive decline in the same sentence. The elephant in the room shall not be named.
Another Noble Pieces Prize candidate.
I don't add an explicit nudge.
What about an explicit noodge?
I'm looking for trouble.
You came to the right place.
Who thought that Joe having no hobbies or interests outside of Beltway wheeling and dealing was an asset? How can they not know they're describing a very pitiful, aging man?
They've deduced that bathos is their only card left to play.
Yeah, I remember Cantor. Another has-been relic of the failure theater GOP. Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, McCarthy, Johnson... a long line of limpdick bullshitters.
Biden and cognitive decline
Progressive Cognition. All is PC.
Its hilarious how the DNC-NYT reporters are able to spin the facts depending on who they like:
Biden: Focused on family and "getting the job done". Doesn't have time for frivolous things like books and movies. Constantly talks about his dead son, and talks to his kids and grandkids.
Trump: Stupid Republican Philistine. Never reads a book. Doesn't care about books, movies or culture. Bothers this grandkids, who sources say, cant stand him.
Obligatory 1984 reference:
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” ― George Orwell, 1984
Althouse is looking for trouble. Look out, she's a maverick flying right into the danger zone.
Biden is far too old to be president. He has always been too politically inept to be a Democratic one (Democrats have to deliver; Republicans do not).
With Trump trillions of dollars of upper middle income wealth will be destroyed. This is the second biggest cache of wealth behind the superrich, who incredibly no longer think their fortunes are tied to a successful democracy. This destruction will reshape American politics for decades to come.
If Biden is reelected, Biden will be the anti-FDR, the progenitor of a multi-decade run of anti-Democratic party politics. The Democrats will own a slew of negative consequences.
Time for an open convention. This decision should be reached sometime next week. Democrats need to regroup, re-think, and then throw deep.
"I'm not being fair. I'm looking for trouble."
In my fevered imagination, I see Althouse strutting down K Street dressed in a leather jacket with lots of zippers and snaps. Most of the milquetoast WaPo staffers scatter at her approach, the more truculent are shoved unceremoniously into the gutter.
"National Security Veterans" - LOL! These are the people who rose to prominence during the Obama years. Who do you think they will support?
Remember when all the liberal/leftists viciously attacked Palin and her kids. They made Rape jokes, sneered at her kid with Downs syndrome, and Letterman joked about her daughter being such a slut she was "Knocked up during the 7th inning of a baseball game".
The defense was that "Palin brought in on herself, by using her family as a political prop". So where is the same mockery for Biden and his kids? He's been using Beau as a prop ever since he died. And he brings it up constantly.
Imagine Trump, instead of occassionaly discussing his older brother Fred, and his tragic death, talked about him every other day. We'd be hearing endless jokes and sneers.
Hooey top to bottom. WTF happened to Cantor?
Shorter Peter Baker essay:
"Why oh why can't Americans give the great and experienced Joe Biden credit for all the good stuff and no blame for all the bad stuff?"
There- I saved you from having to read it.
By the way- that just demonstrates in no uncertain terms why Cantor was tossed aside by conservative voters. Just another fake conservative.
Gotta love that "to connect with voters." Bullshit. He inserts his loss experience into conversations with actual freshly grieving parents of soldiers killed overseas and LIES about "losing his son" in Iraq. It didn't happen. Great he's trying to emulate empathy, but that's not doing it.
Poor old Joe:
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him ...
Peter Baker really gets that tongue right up in there. MMMM-mmmmm good!
Moron foreign policy sets up conditions for increased belligerence. Then we're supposed to be impressed with how he works through the problems those policies caused.
LOL. "Unprovoked" and "national security veterans" read: neocons, think that all of these wars are a good idea, but you can bet that their children will not be fighting in them, any more than "Five Deferments Joe" fought in Viet Nam.
He's lost the only real ability he ever had: faking sincerity. But they won't go near that 400-pound donkey in the middle of the room.
And we have "wars started by other countries" precisely because Joe literally invited Putin to do "a little incursion." And as soon as our ally Israel was attacked by an organization on our terror watch list we tried to hold them back from the fight. Never a word about the Hezbollah rockets raining down from Lebanon. Never a word about the indiscriminate rockets that used to rain down from Gaza. Nope. Our only actual democratic ally in the region is the problem in Joe's eyes. If there's another "war started by other countries" it'll be China choosing this time of extreme American weakness to strike, and General Millecent and his boss Lloyd "Out of Office" Austin will be too busy giving out pride flag lapel pins and hosting drag queens to raise the forces we'll need to defend our other (alleged) ally Taiwan.
Thanks for 50 years of failure grandpa Joe.
Oh, brother. Another "Biden is doing great but you stupid people just don't get it" piece. I would say these people are shameless, but I think they actually believe their own bullsh*t.
Also, the easiest easiest way to navigate stormy waters is to not voyage into them.
The Fall after Biden's Spring.
a scumbag like Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan
Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, McCarthy, Johnson... a long line of limpdick bullshitters.
One of these things is not like the others. Paul Ryan is the last member of Congress to propose a real solution to the U.S. government deficit and debt problem. He could have carried on with the same GOPe BS, but he actually produced a plan for reducing spending.
And his own party destroyed him. McConnell and Graham in particular made sure the proposal went nowhere in the Senate. His plan probably wasn't going to pass even the House, because too many of his own "Republican" colleagues refused to cut spending.
Paul Ryan showed a lot of courage proposing that plan. More than any other member of Congress has shown since.
I don't think Joe has yet called the family of Rachel Morin.
But he at least managed to hang in there, even after family traumas, to continue to pull money out of firms and politicos in various foreign nations, and still have the wherewithal to set up 28 shell companies under various family identities to 'relocate' the funds.
He's a strong man, this Joe Biden. Oh...I almost forgot, those 'national security veterans' are the same ones who were arranging Iraq, Afghanistan, giving the Iranians back their money and access to massive amounts of more money through their oil sales, which in turn paid for Oct. 7 and the death and chaos that ensued, not to mention the erasure of an entire generation of young men in Ukraine.
All good here.
Who would have thunk that twice overthrowing the elected government in Ukraine, in attempts to install and anti-Russia government right on Ukraine's border, in a bid to install nuclear missiles five minutes flight time from Moscow would cause Russia to react?
Joe Biden, he was banking on it.
Cue Dr Weevil with his breathless repetition of unadulterated propaganda that "proves" I am wrong.
We have been told that it is unacceptable that a country on Russia's border, Russia which has suffered invasions multiple times from all directions, that such a country should be neutral, and not belong to a hostile military bloc which has a history of invading countries in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, whose leaders we don't like, and whose current supreme commander has avowed that "Putin must go", it's unacceptable to those encouraging Ukraine to "Let's you and him fight" that Ukraine instead by neutral. And the horrific casualties that Ukraine is suffering daily are a small price to uphold the principle that Ukraine has a right to join any military alliance it likes.
Just imagine if Canada had a coup, called it a people's revolution, and then joined a military pact with Russia and China, started attacking the English speaking provinces with heavy weapons in an "anti-terrorism operation," and the US would simply sit idly by.
I'm looking for trouble.
Oh behave! --Austin Powers
Peter Baker baked a handmade tale, a handmade tale that Peter Baker baked.
"credit him with navigating maturely..."
LIke, the mature exit from Afghanistan?
"Neither his persona nor his vision travel"
True, the persona of mean-spirited senile Joe turns people off.
"citing his son’s death to connect with voters"
Again and again and again. Even when talking to the families of dead service members. And lying even about that "Iraq" death.
"He has few strong interests other than politics and family"
Wasn't W, married to a librarian and a pretty avid reader, ridiculed for his supposedly limited interests?
"He... rarely cites something he has read...."
Yes, but Trump! Trump!
"And here's a sentence that needs a factcheck: "He makes a point of calling each of his children and grandchildren nearly every day." He doesn't call Navy Joan every day, does he?"
Good catch. The MSM propagandists just can't help themselves.
"He has few strong interests other than politics and family"
Correction: "and money." As the "loan" repayments, 10% for the big guy, and money being shuffled through multiple family accounts show.
Oh, and vacationing. Being lazy. Going to the beach. Keeping the leader of the free world's schedule clear.
Too many false statements to bother noting any particular one. How about we just all admit the doddering old dementia patient can't be president now, let alone for another four years, and remove him from office under the 25th? Let Harris have a go at being something other than her current assignments as Border Czar, etc., for the rest of the summer to demonstrate she shouldn't be president either, and then have an election with her or any other candidate the Dems want to propose. Trump will still lose due to universal mail ballot harvesting, but at least we won't have to put up with two sock puppets for progressive Democrats as supposed leaders of the US.
At least he landed on his feet:
Eric Cantor is Vice Chairman and Managing Director at Moelis & Company and serves as a member of its board of directors. He advises clients on issues spanning the intersection of public policy and industry.
Header on their home page:
A global independent investment bank providing confidential, unconflicted, strategic advice
www.moelis.com
John Henry
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
I'm not being fair. I'm looking for trouble.
You go, girl! Be that troublesome woman. It is why I come back every day.
John Henry
Ann Althouse said...
"So when did Althouse's blog turn into a comedy site? Most of my reactions to anything from the WaPo or NYT is a simple haha...."
"Because I'm choosing and editing things down to expose the comedy. I don't add an explicit nudge. I'm not being fair. I'm looking for trouble."
Sniff.(wipes away a tear) I'm so proud.
If lives and fortunes of real people weren't involved it would be comedy. As it stands, it's just absurd.
@Althouse
And going a damn fine job of it too!
All the powerful Republicans of 2014 have been shown to be complete frauds and the controlled opposition:
Boehner
Cantor
Paul Ryan
Kevin McCarthy
McCain
Mitch McConnell
Romney
No wonder we got Trump.
Yeah, P0TATUS Biden… the great uniter!
He and his wifey re-financing their home dozens of times, like some underpaid schlep. Money-laundering graft artist.
Fuck Peter Baker and the rest of the palace jesters @the NYT.
Lobbyist Eric Cantor, Lobbyist Paul Ryan, Lobbyist Kevin McCarthy.
Send them off to war instead of letting them profit from it.
These don't read like real articles from real journalists. They read like press releases from the Biden campaign.
Darkisland said...
“Eric Cantor is Vice Chairman and Managing Director at Moelis & Company and serves as a member of its board of directors. He advises clients on issues spanning the intersection of public policy and industry.”
So an expert on fascism, then.
Which national security veterans are they that credit Joe with mature handling of anything? I'd warrant that if the "veterans" names were given, you'd find that every single one of them works in the NYT newsroom.
But Joe was always slow on his (now long ago) best days. That's why every single one of his repeated runs for President flamed out early. That was until Joe was selected (not elected) by the Dim hierarchy as their candidate--on condition he stay in the basement during the runup to the 2020 election.
And now that he's older, probably senescent if not senile, being slow means it's hard for him to keep up with the news cycle. And he's faced with another member of the geezerdom who has "still got game". If Joe were more intelligent, he'd realize it was time to hang it all up. And (hat tip to commenter McUllough at 1216) become a lobbyist.
Althouse said:"Because I'm choosing and editing things down to expose the comedy. I don't add an explicit nudge. I'm not being fair. I'm looking for trouble."
6/26/24, 10:05 AM
Hah. Yah. And that's why I like it here.
Someone want to tell imTay that only Russians and Russian shills talk about all the times Russia has been invaded? Everyone else in the world can't help noticing that Russia has somehow come out of all those invasions as the largest country in the world, ruling over 200 other ethnicities with an iron hand, and that Russia has invaded a couple of dozen countries in the 80+ years since anyone last invaded them. It's like writing about "warm-water ports": an obvious sign of shillery.
Someone might also want to tell him that neither the Orange Revolution nor the Maidan Revolution was a coup - neither involved the military - but the Russian seizure of Crimea in 2014 was exactly that: the use of overwhelming military force and surprise to seize control over territory they had no right to. Again, words have meanings, though propagandists prefer to warp them.
Early this morning on the Milkweed Cafe, imTay was assuring us that the recent Muslim terrorism in Dagestan was all incited by the CIA. Apparently he doesn't know that Dagestan and Buryatia have had proportionally more men killed in Ukraine than any other 'republics', that Russian television commentators openly talk about using Muslims and Mongols as cannon fodder so blue-eyed blond Muscovites and Petersburgers can stay safe at home, that the Dagestanis have risen in revolt numerous times over the last several centuries, and that they saw what the Russians did to their fellow-Muslim Chechens right next door. The idea that Dagestanis would need the CIA or any other outsiders to give them ideas is simple and obvious Russian propaganda. Why does imTay propagate it so eagerly?
Yes avars have about 150 years of grievances on the Russians most recently the invasion of dagestan around 1999
Lance said...
a scumbag like Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan
Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, McCarthy, Johnson... a long line of limpdick bullshitters.
One of these things is not like the others. Paul Ryan is the last member of Congress to propose a real solution to the U.S. government deficit and debt problem. He could have carried on with the same GOPe BS, but he actually produced a plan for reducing spending.
And his own party destroyed him. McConnell and Graham in particular made sure the proposal went nowhere in the Senate. His plan probably wasn't going to pass even the House, because too many of his own "Republican" colleagues refused to cut spending.
Paul Ryan showed a lot of courage proposing that plan. More than any other member of Congress has shown since.
W. T. F.
Paul Ryan was speaker in 2017 and with the help of Ron Desantis and many others he stopped Trump from building the border wall and he produced one of the most execrable budgets you could possibly produce and the house forced Trump to sign it. Then joined everyone in the media blaming Trump for the budget he forced Trump to sign.
Then Paul Ryan, after betraying every Republian voter incessantly for 2 years and undermining Trump in every way he could resigned in disgrace and moved the the board room of Fox News where he has done such wonders as firing Tucker Carlson and had Arizona called with 3% of the vote counted.
Paul Ryan is one of the most traitorous and terrible people in Washington DC. He is easily on the same level as Nancy Pelosi.
Now does that mean that iran or qatar or some other party would arm and train the avars
Dr Weevil said...
Someone want to tell imTay that only Russians and Russian shills talk about all the times Russia has been invaded? Everyone else in the world can't help noticing that Russia has somehow come out of all those invasions as the largest country in the world, ruling over 200 other ethnicities with an iron hand, and that Russia has invaded a couple of dozen countries in the 80+ years since anyone last invaded them. It's like writing about "warm-water ports": an obvious sign of shillery.
Someone might also want to tell him that neither the Orange Revolution nor the Maidan Revolution was a coup - neither involved the military - but the Russian seizure of Crimea in 2014 was exactly that: the use of overwhelming military force and surprise to seize control over territory they had no right to. Again, words have meanings, though propagandists prefer to warp them.
Everyone in Crimea hates the US.
Everyone in Eastern Ukraine hates the US.
Everyone in Africa hates the US.
Everyone in the middle east hates the US.
Hates.
Everyone in the world now knows that the 2014 coup was pulled by the US that started all of this. Everyone else in the world knows the US helped Western Ukraine kill people in Eastern Ukraine because they voted for the wrong person.
Zelensky is a dictator. He has political prisoners in jail just like Putin and Biden. He suspended elections because he would have lost.
After Russian Collusion and Hunter's Laptop being called Russian disinformation only really stupid people accept the propaganda from the US Government Regime at this point.
Dr Weevil said...
Early this morning on the Milkweed Cafe, imTay was assuring us that the recent Muslim terrorism in Dagestan was all incited by the CIA. Apparently he doesn't know that Dagestan and Buryatia have had proportionally more men killed in Ukraine than any other 'republics', that Russian television commentators openly talk about using Muslims and Mongols as cannon fodder so blue-eyed blond Muscovites and Petersburgers can stay safe at home, that the Dagestanis have risen in revolt numerous times over the last several centuries, and that they saw what the Russians did to their fellow-Muslim Chechens right next door. The idea that Dagestanis would need the CIA or any other outsiders to give them ideas is simple and obvious Russian propaganda. Why does imTay propagate it so eagerly?
Because terrorism against Russia doesn't gain the Dagestanis anything.
You say "that Russian television commentators openly talk about using Muslims and Mongols as cannon fodder so blue-eyed blond Muscovites and Petersburgers can stay safe at home" is spoken openly but everything else said on there is propaganda.
If you had any self awareness at all to notice that cognitive dissonance you wouldn't be such a stupid sheep.
But you are such a pathetic idiot your only real argument is "Putin Puppet."
"I have been told Wagner's music is better than it sounds." -- Mark Twain
And Achilles writes a whole string of bald-faced lies, pretending they are somehow arguments, without addressing any of the actual arguments I made. Zelenskyy postponed the election, as he was required to do by the Ukrainian constitution, and as Churchill did in a similar situation - the UK election of 1945 was five years overdue. I've pointed out both these facts before, but Achilles and his weasel-beast friends just ignore the facts and repeat their stupid slanders.
And what kind of moron thinks terrorists never commit acts of terror that make things worse instead of better? That's the usual effect of terror attacks, but somehow terrorists keep doing them. But no, it must be the CIA, fooling or bribing the poor Dagestanis into doing something unproductive they never would have thought of doing themselves! It's amazing how some Americans think Ukrainians and Dagestanis and other foreigners have no minds of their own, and any events that occur in their countries must have been arranged by the CIA! Patronizing bigots.
Well there is a certain law and diminishing returns we saw what surovikin ddid to aleppo and that was just a remote outpost
It’s almost impossible for me to believe that after all this time, there are people that aren’t getting rich from all the blood being spilled still have a hard on for the US being involved in foreign wars. I mean, fuck every one of ya. Get your fat asses over there. It really is that simple.
It’s almost impossible for me to believe that after all this time, there are people that aren’t getting rich from all the blood being spilled still have a hard on for the US being involved in foreign wars. I mean, fuck every one of ya. Get your fat asses over there. It really is that simple.
'He’s just not equipped in this era we’re in of social media and constant scrutiny. The tools and attributes and talents that he may have had just don’t quite fit or lend themselves to the era we’re in.'
Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear. Dark Brandon rides again!
If he's calling his kids every day it's because he's already forgotten he just called them yesterday.
Cantor is sneaky. He says: The tools and attributes and talents that he MAY have had just don’t quite fit or lend themselves to the era we’re in.”
He doesn’t say that Biden has any tools or talents - just that the ones that he may have, Methinks this was purposeful. What say you, Professor?
"He [Biden] has not found a message on the economy that resonates more than the price of milk and eggs."
Since 1933, the Federal milk marketing orders are concerned primarily with the orderly marketing of raw fluid-grade milk from the producer to the processor. Legal and technical language makes them complex. Underlying the entire pricing system is the linkage between prices for various milk classes and the wholesale prices of manufactured dairy products
In other words, milk prices are controlled by formulas based on actual fluid supply and usage demand for butter, cheese, milk, and ice cream, not by inapposite bureaucratic decisions. And yes, Congress kicks in Farm Bill support for the benefit of dairy farmers.
As for chicken eggs, this commodity is influenced by the National Egg Market Report produced by the Department of Agriculture which simply reflects the egg prices based upon egg size. But commodities always involve supply/demand. Also, futures are bought and sold on the Fresh Hen Egg Futures market.
In conclusion, no President has ever controlled milk and egg prices.
Democrats have to deliver; Republicans do not
I'll have a pepperoni pizza to go, please.
^^
If US democracy is on the line, why did it take AG Merrick Garland 2 years, 5 months to bring indictments in Washington DC, the scene of the riot, in federal district court and 2 years, 7 months on the classified documents in the Florida federal district court? Both sets of crimes occurred in broad daylight!
Is the attorney general of the United States competent at administering justice?
The dilatory administration of justice follows the Department of Defense's ineptly executed withdrawal from Afghanistan despite having months if not years of notice that the withdrawal was to occur. Was the defense secretary or any other responsible officials removed or reprimanded for poor execution of responsibilities and duties? Aren't formulation and execution of plans benchmarks for fitness assessments?
The national security adviser and his organization have formulated and executed an ill-thought out plan of too little and too late concerning the supply of capable armaments to the Ukraine, allowing the Ukrainians to fight and die in defense but not have the opportunity to move forward and try to end the war on more favorable terms. After the failure of the Ukrainian counteroffensive in the summer of 2023, why were not replacements made in the national security council and department of defense? Washington officials are invaluable and Ukrainian fighters are expendable?
Former British PM David Lloyd George castigated Neville Chamberlain in the House of Commons observing that in each confrontation with Adolf Hitler that Chamberlain had been "worsted" by the adversary and that Britain needed a leader who could master the situation, not be a captive to it.
Joe Biden has mostly beaten Joe Biden. He has proven himself politically maladroit and as a leader too often inadequate and incapable. For now, Trump remains something of a beneficiary of Biden and the Biden administration's weaknesses. One senses this weakness is at the very top.
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