१३ मे, २०२४

"Mr. Trump fares especially well among those who believe that the political and economic systems ought to be torn down, a group that represents about 15 percent..."

"... of registered voters. He leads among these anti-system voters by 32 points, and the tear-it-down voters are especially likely to have defected from the president. In contrast, Mr. Biden retains nearly all of his 2020 supporters who believe only minor changes are necessary. These change voters are not necessarily demanding a more ideologically progressive agenda.... Instead, Mr. Biden’s losses are concentrated among moderate and conservative Democratic-leaning voters, who nonetheless think that the system needs major changes or to be torn down altogether."

From "Trump Leads in 5 Key States, as Young and Nonwhite Voters Express Discontent With Biden/A new set of Times/Siena polls, including one with The Philadelphia Inquirer, reveal an erosion of support for the president among young and nonwhite voters upset about the economy and Gaza" (NYT)(free access link/useful charts and details).

Also: "Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden are essentially tied among 18-to-29-year-olds and Hispanic voters, even though each group gave Mr. Biden more than 60 percent of their vote in 2020. Mr. Trump also wins more than 20 percent of Black voters — a tally that would be the highest level of Black support for any Republican presidential candidate since the enactment of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The polls suggest that Mr. Trump’s strength among young and nonwhite voters has at least temporarily upended the electoral map, with Mr. Trump surging to a significant lead in Arizona, Georgia and Nevada — relatively diverse Sun Belt states where Black and Hispanic voters propelled Mr. Biden to signature victories in the 2020 election."

६० टिप्पण्या:

Temujin म्हणाले...

Interesting that the NYT does not seem to consider it a massive 'change' when a sitting President and his party capture the Governmental institutions and use them to financially strap and constrain the opposition candidate. It's not big deal to try to jail the guy running against your guy- is how the Times seems to see this.

I don't think most of the country wants to tear the whole thing down. They do object to jailing the opposition (hello Peter Navarro) and trying to jail the lead opponent and his former team (Steve Bannon). Seems a heavy handed approach?

The nation is miffed at the non-stop dividing of the nation with the Red Speech, calling anyone who disagrees with DEI, White Supremacists. The nation is having a hard time unable to afford to buy a home, or simply groceries and gas while paying rent. The nation has a problem with their kids- by the thousands- marching for Hamas. Just seems...wrong.

The nation is tired of the massive spike in crime in our cities and smaller towns, even as the press tells us that data says "All is good."

It's not that Trump voters are ready to tear the whole thing down. They just want to right the ship.

JRoj म्हणाले...

The belief voting still matters is so cutely anachronistic.

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

NYT campaigning to get Joe to quit the campaign.

Political Junkie म्हणाले...

NYT poll has DJT up 13 in Nevada. If that holds up, and I do not think it will, DJT will win Virginia and Colorado. Map would be reverting back to 2000 and 2004, but with Rust Belt states more in line with DJT than GWB.

Cheers!

Leland म्हणाले...

Yet I don’t recall Trump supporters saying some speech is protected and other speech needs to be censored if not prosecuted. It is not Trump supporters claiming the 2nd amendment doesn’t exist in court rooms. It is not Trump supporters asking citizens to take in illegal immigrants. Trump supporters aren’t supporting the extension of FISA. It wasn’t Trump supporters suggesting that if Trump showed contrition to the acts he committed then he might get leniency. I can go on…

Breezy म्हणाले...

A lot of us believe things have been torn down by the progressives that we didn’t want torn down. Things like the border, free speech, biological reality, energy stability, judicial integrity, bail, election integrity, etc. We want things put back as they were.

tim maguire म्हणाले...

Mr. Trump fares especially well among those who believe that the political and economic systems ought to be torn down

Really? Trump fares especially well among the terrorist-loving communists working to make our cities unlivable?

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

The corrupt left better hurry up with their plan to get all those illegal entrants ready to vote.

No ID required!

Butkus51 म्हणाले...

Joey will get 2 billion votes. Media will rejoice.



Dude1394 म्हणाले...

The NYTimes is truly garbage stuff. We are literally prosecuting the opposition to the sitting president on the flimsiest of excuses and the NYtines and the fascist democrats are perfectly fine with that. Happy days.
While they scream that if Trump is elected he will prosecute his political enemies, just garbage.

Amadeus 48 म्हणाले...

If the Times is on to anything, it is the persistence of the ideals of the Tea Party as a populist movement notwithstanding its death at the hands of coastal elites.

What did the Tea Party want? Was the Tea Party optimistic about America's future based upon America's past? What happened to the Tea Party? Did the Tea Party have any position on race-based policies such as DEI? Did the Tea Party deface public spaces? Did the Tea Party clean up the grounds after their rallies? Did the Tea Party have a leader? What gave impetus to the Senate elections of Ron Johnson, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, and Ted Cruz?

The Tea Party is gone. Long live the Tea Party.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

oh please. All of this is a tip to the corrupt left to roll out the cheat machines in these states.

Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...

Okay, fine. But how many of the We're Currently Trying to Burn it All Down cohort support Biden? Or supported him in 2020 when The Burning was more kinetic and widespread than it is now? Have they ever run a column on the political implications of all that violence, death and destruction?

We all know the answer to that. "Journalism is about covering important stories. With a pillow, until they stop moving." Iowahawk (David Burge)

Aggie म्हणाले...

Looks like LBJ's '200 years' is coming in a little shorter than expected. Leave it to Joe.....

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

Map would be reverting back to 2000 and 2004, but with Rust Belt states more in line with DJT than GWB.

Trump's performance in two elections was closer to 1988 or 2004 than 2008 or 2012. He performed better in the Rust Belt than any GOP candidate since Papa Bush.

I've long harped on the idea that the white suburban vote was starting to drift left as far back as the 1990s, with the end of the Cold War and the massive social and economic changes that it brought. 9/11 halted that trend for a while, but it had resumed by 2008. The utter failure of the Biden admin may do the same thing, scaring white suburban voters back to the GOP for another cycle or two.

Jamie म्हणाले...

Mr. Biden retains nearly all of his 2020 supporters who believe only minor changes are necessary. These change voters are not necessarily demanding a more ideologically progressive agenda.... Instead, Mr. Biden’s losses are concentrated among moderate and conservative Democratic-leaning voters, who nonetheless think that the system needs major changes or to be torn down altogether.

Let that sink in: moderate (most of them, thankfully) and conservative (all six of them) Democrats think that the system is so far to the left that it needs to be changed significantly or even torn down. Clearly they don't think it's too far to the right, or they wouldn't consider themselves moderate or conservative.

And the voters who supported Biden in 2020 think the system is far enough left already - they're not "demanding a more ideologically progressive agenda"; maybe just some minor tweaks here and there, because it's already properly progressive, thankyouverymuch.

Anyone of our resident lefties want to claim, in opposition to the vaunted NYT, that we live in a centrist country that just happens to be currently infested with - what's the term... oh yes: MAGAts?

Achilles म्हणाले...

You can't openly say you are a Biden supporter anymore without admitting you are a fascist piece of shit. The NYT's and Media's purpose is to provide cover for people to support the evil thuggish Regime. But the problem for them is that they are an obvious minority.

It is clear as day to everyone that Trump won the 2020 election 75 million to 60 million actual voters.

Georgia just admitted in court that they were caught double scanning thousands of ballots and that they are not allowing anyone to look at ~380,000 more ballot images in court.

But there is "no evidence" of voter fraud.

Pennsylvania just admitted they broke the law and counted thousands of illegal ballots that weren't dated and/or didn't have a witness signature.

But there is "no evidence" of voter fraud.

But the main change is that you now gain social status when you oppose the regime. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson is the most soulless corporate shill on the planet and he is afraid to endorse Biden. He will abjectly humiliate himself to sell bad vodka or in-n-out burgers and stupidly claim he is not taking steroids, but he will not support Biden.

Meanwhile people like Kevin O'leary are calling the Regime out.

People are noticing that the super wealthy are super wealthier and everyone else is poor because of Biden.

We are at the point where the people feed the aristocracy to the guillotines.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

College educated white women haven't budged.

Maybe they defect from Biden or RJK Jr. to run for cover and avoid making a real decision.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Mr. Trump fares especially well among those who believe that the political and economic systems ought to be torn down

Problem is you can't really fix any of our political and economic systems, without first purging and rebuilding American education grades K thru Phd.

College educated white women aren't going to let that happen. Whoever controls the schools, controls America's future. The prospects are grim.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Achilles said...

It is clear as day to everyone that Trump won the 2020 election 75 million to 60 million actual voters.

It is clear. Luckily for Democrats and the deep state modern Americans have the attention span of a goldfish. Plus, those who benefit from the voter fraud, like the people who run America's education system...don't care...their cup runneth over.

People are noticing that the super wealthy are super wealthier and everyone else is poor because of Biden. We are at the point where the people feed the aristocracy to the guillotines.

I'm just hoping when it comes time to storm The Bastille there's free beer.

Wince म्हणाले...

Mr. Trump fares especially well among those who believe that the political and economic systems ought to be torn down...

The NYT squeezes-out yet another headline narrative that Trump is a threat of some kind.

"Bring it down! Bring it all down!"

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

"Tear it down" is the Times reframing "Drain the swamp" to make it sound scary, anarchic and destructive instead of like a necessary, healthy improvement.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

What is the motivation of the pollsters here? I don't know, but I could guess that these particular pollsters want Biden shit-canned by the DNC.

However, if the pollsters are mostly straight up honest here and running their polls just like they did in 2020, then Biden is in deep danger of getting blown out by a margin too big to overcome with fraud. Biden was way ahead in the polls of these exact same swing states in 2020- he is running 10+ points behind those numbers from 2020, and he won all of those states except for Michigan by less than 2 points. In other words, if the election results mirror the polls, then Trump will win all of those swing states plus win Michigan too.

Fred Drinkwater म्हणाले...

My own political position is based almost entirely on the fact that most of the wealthiest counties in the U.S. are adjacent to D.C..

JAORE म्हणाले...

I'd been confused about Biden's move away from Israel to support the Hamas protestors. Surely the protests are becoming an embarrassment to the mainstream Democrats.

I "reasoned" the Michigan votes he gained would be partially offset by loss of Jewish funding/votes.

But the more I look the more I see Biden is losing young voters by supporting Israel. At the least they are claiming they might stay home. That affects LOTS of states, Michigan just one, although the most visible.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

"NYT poll has DJT up 13 in Nevada. If that holds up, and I do not think it will, DJT will win Virginia and Colorado. Map would be reverting back to 2000 and 2004, but with Rust Belt states more in line with DJT than GWB."

An excellent point and one I have made before about this cycle's polling in the "swing states". State results are correlated with each other, and this is one of the reasons I don't put much value in the Siena polls, but the truth is that no one seems to be polling states like Colorado and Virginia, states that used to be swing states up to the 2004 election. If Trump really is ahead in all of these states being polled today, then the category "swing states" is larger this cycle than it was in 2020 and includes Colorado, Virginia, New Hampshire, and New Mexico.

Tina Trent म्हणाले...

Hmm. Young voters who support Trump tend to not attend college but work in the trades or merchandise or other necessary (and believe me, more skilled) jobs. They marry younger, have more children and have them younger, and thus are more mature, responsible, and better-educated about growing up than their infantile college student peers. They are also more like to serve or have served in the military.

They're not burning down businesses or occupying college commons. They're building, not tearing down. The only thing they want to eliminate are the prejudiced and vicious academic, media, and political fascists.

They pay taxes.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

in 2020- the polls were neck and neck.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

I've said it a million times, Trump should be doing rallies in the ghettoes of America.

Coincidentally (how did this happen?) Democrat cities.

He would take another 10 percent from the blacks and it would be a landslide...

PM म्हणाले...

Why that dadgum Trump's no threat at all.
Justa buncha nihilists making noise with trashcan lids.

Leland म्हणाले...

In contrast, Mr. Biden retains nearly all of his 2020 supporters who believe only minor changes are necessary.

Is this even news? Let's rephrase: "The incumbent retains the support of those that like the current status." Ya think? So how many people think we are on the right track?

~25%

So Biden has a solid 25% support of Americans. Good for him. That's the best spin the NYT can give to the polling. The best.

wendybar म्हणाले...

"This video of VCU students walking out on Youngkin (we're not entirely sure why but eh, let's not pretend these babies need an actual reason to pretend they're as he began to deliver their commencement speech has gone viral (this editor feels so badly for their parents), but someone, somewhere took the footage and made it into something glorious."-twitchy

https://twitter.com/i/status/1789771839146733946

Kathy म्हणाले...

"Whoever controls the schools, controls America's future."

This is why I vote against "school choice," because "school choice" usually means government funding for private schools and homeschools. I support helping people homeschool or attend private schools, but government funding will destroy those options too.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

"In 2020- the polls were neck and neck."

Just four examples should suffice to disprove that claim- Biden led Trump in Michigan in the NYT/Siena poll in the first week of June 2020 by 11 points; led in Pennsylvania by 10 points; led in Wisconsin by 11 points; and led in Arizona by 7 points.

iowan2 म्हणाले...

polls are most accurately read in the trend lines. Much like the Stock market, point to point comparisons dont mean much. Trend lines do.

The reality hits. Joe is wholly unable to affect the polls. He is a demential addled dolt. He cannot sway any opinion. He seems intent to ignore his base, and call them stupid for not voting for him.

'If you aint voting for me, you aint Black.
and of course Clintons wife
"why am I not ahead by 50 points?"

this is rapidly becoming a margin of victory that cannot be overcome by voter ride.

wishfulthinking म्हणाले...

"College educated white women haven't budged."


They will budge when it's too late. The public rapes and government mandated theft of private property and the rampant murders at their doorsteps will wake them.

By then the illegals will have the vote. Too late.

Idiots.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Blogger Kathy said...
"Whoever controls the schools, controls America's future."

This is why I vote against "school choice," because "school choice" usually means government funding for private schools and homeschools. I support helping people homeschool or attend private schools, but government funding will destroy those options too..

This doesn't make any sense. "Funding" often comes in the form of vouchers. Or other measures like providing tax credits when someone's child doesn't take up a seat at a liberal public school. How do you propose "helping"?

Liberal public education DOMINATES US education. The downward trajectory is obvious. You're not keeping gov't out of private and home schools, you're trapping poor kids is shit public schools.

School choice programs have worked well for Milwaukee for a long time. St. Agnus in Butler, WI is a great example. Kids from poor families west of 124th Street can send their kids to a clean, safe, private school with a low teacher to student ratio. The school is dominated by Hispanic and and African-American kids from Milwaukee.

Only someone who's income is completely vested in public schools would vote against that.

Drago म्हणाले...

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin: "in 2020- the polls were neck and neck."

Completely incorrect. Trump wasn't even close in the polls in 2020.

n.n म्हणाले...

Diverse (i.e. color judgment, class bigotry) including racism, sexism, etc. One step forward, two steps backward.

That said, diversity of individuals, minority of one. #HateLovesAbortion

Robert Cook म्हणाले...

"People are noticing that the super wealthy are super wealthier and everyone else is poor because of Biden."

Really? It was Biden who designed and implemented Trump's tax breaks?

Rusty म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Rusty म्हणाले...

This is the latest RCP figures. As you all know RCP does not conduct polls they take all the polls and publish the average.

Election 2024 Trump Biden Spread
RCP Poll Average 46.1 44.9 Trump +1.2
5-Way RCP Average 41.5 38.8 Trump +2.7
Top Battlegrounds 47.9 44.3 Trump +3.6
Electoral College Trump Biden Toss Ups
RCP Electoral Map 219 215 104
No Toss Up States 312 226
Battlegrounds Trump Biden Spread
Wisconsin 47.9 47.3 Trump +0.6
Arizona 48.4 43.2 Trump +5.2
Georgia 49.0 44.4 Trump +4.6
Michigan 46.0 45.2 Trump +0.8
Pennsylvania 47.6 45.6 Trump +2.0
North Carolina 48.2 42.8 Trump +5.4
Nevada 48.0 41.8 Trump +6.2
Battle for Congress GOP Dems
U.S. Senate 49 43 8 TU
Generic Ballot 44.0 45.2 Dem +1.2
State of the Union Polling
President Job Approval
Approve 39.5
Disapprove 56.6
Spread -17.1
Direction of Country
Right Direction 23.9
Wrong Track 65.7
Spread -41.8
RCP Betting Averages
President
Trump 44.8
Biden 41.8

Sorry, Althouse, for taking up bandwidth.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

Mr. Trump also wins more than 20 percent of Black voters?

It’s easy to predict that Trump’s share of the black vote as measured after the election will increase, because there’s an enthusiasm that is quite palpable, though I think difficult to measure this far out.

I am still flabbergasted that Biden would so openly court anti-Jewish voters to win deep blue Michigan. Will Jews continue to support a man who turns around and supports voters who scream “Death to Jews”? Seems suicidal to me, but we will see.

Achilles म्हणाले...

Robert Cook said...

"People are noticing that the super wealthy are super wealthier and everyone else is poor because of Biden."

Really? It was Biden who designed and implemented Trump's tax breaks?

Are you really so stupid that you think taxes are the sole determinant of income distribution?

Trump raised working class wages relative to inflation for the first time in decades. Period.

Stop being a fucking idiot Cook. Really just stop being stupid. That post was absolutely moronic and you know it.

Achilles म्हणाले...

Yancey Ward said...

What is the motivation of the pollsters here? I don't know, but I could guess that these particular pollsters want Biden shit-canned by the DNC.

However, if the pollsters are mostly straight up honest here and running their polls just like they did in 2020, then Biden is in deep danger of getting blown out by a margin too big to overcome with fraud. Biden was way ahead in the polls of these exact same swing states in 2020- he is running 10+ points behind those numbers from 2020, and he won all of those states except for Michigan by less than 2 points. In other words, if the election results mirror the polls, then Trump will win all of those swing states plus win Michigan too.


The goal of these "polls" is to make it seem close. They are trying to make it look like there are similar numbers of voters that support each candidate. There aren't and everyone knows it.

That is why they take these polls of random people they call rather than people who are actually listed on voter rolls.

Half the "Biden supporters" in these polls are illegals.

Nice म्हणाले...


Latest Peggy Noonan:


"Donald Trump doesn’t know it, but he will love prison. He’ll be the most specially treated convict in American history, better than the mob bosses in “Goodfellas.” He’ll be in his cell with his phone—he’ll get one—live-streaming and live-Truthing; he’ll be posing thumbs up in his uniform surrounded by gangbangers and white collar hoodlums. He’ll philosophize about how a lot of people in prison don’t deserve to be there, the system’s rigged, he’ll consider pardons. All convicts tell you that they were railroaded, but this will be new to Trump, he’ll believe them.

He’ll be the king of Rikers. He’ll say he’s learned a lot and the guards are all for Trump and he’s going to get out and reform the justice system. It will be fabulous for him. He’ll put himself as Martin Luther King and he’ll be writing Truths From the Birmingham Jail.

People forget: He loves this, loves the game, the drama, and the devil takes care of his own."

Achilles म्हणाले...

Gusty Winds said...

College educated white women haven't budged.

College educated single women haven't budged. That particular group is multiracial.

It is the black and hispanic men that are defecting because college educated women in general act like harem girls who put their own selfish needs ahead of any children they have.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

NYT poll has DJT up 13 in Nevada. If that holds up, and I do not think it will, DJT will win Virginia and Colorado.

@Political Junkie, as a resident of Virginia snd something of a political junkie in my own right, let me advise you that in this election Nevada and Colorado are poor predictors for Virginia. Despite the election of Glenn Youngkin in 2021 (by 2 points) and Glenn’s ability to pull his running mates Winsome Sears and Jason Miyares in with him, the counties close to DC — Fairfax, Stafford, Loudoun, and Prince William — are packed full of government workers. And there is no enthusiasm gap for Joe Biden in those counties — people huddle in terror that Trump will smash their rice bowls.

Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...

Unlike the horrific inflation (~30%) caused by Joe Biden's ineptitude and the Fed's malfeasance, income tax cuts don't make anybody poorer* Cook, and don't deprive the Treasury of income either**, and you well know you can't explain how to tie your two disparate thoughts together.

But if you want to try, go ahead. We all need a laugh.

*People who pay income taxes keep more of their own income. Duh.
**Historically every income tax cut has led to more revenues in the years following implementation; while income tax increases have the opposite effect (this always stumps commies who can't think for themselves and assume wage earners can't either).

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Colorado is deep blue now.

You are dreaming.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Achilles said...
"Half the "Biden supporters" in these polls are illegals."


You cannot be that dumb.
They are not polling illegals.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Cook - you are delusional.

Biden is going to hike taxes. and he already has.

President Biden Has Proposed Tax Increases. Here Are 6 Of Them

Biden unveils massive $7.3T budget with $5.5T in tax hikes, plans for ‘highest peacetime burden’ in US history

Biden's New Budget Proposes a $4.7 Trillion Increase in Taxes

Michael McNeil म्हणाले...

Sorry, Althouse, for taking up bandwidth.

You should be sorry—not for the original posting, but for not going back and deleting your duplicate posting.

Robert Cook म्हणाले...

"Stop being a fucking idiot Cook. Really just stop being stupid. That post was absolutely moronic and you know it."

Denial, Denial, Denial. Hahahaha!

Rusty म्हणाले...

Robert Cook said...
"People are noticing that the super wealthy are super wealthier and everyone else is poor because of Biden."

"Really? It was Biden who designed and implemented Trump's tax breaks?"

Really? People being allowed to keep their own money makes them poorer?
Explain that one.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

One more F U C K YOU to all leftists.

You a-holes are part of the problem.

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1790030013448040679

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

"The astonishing crowds supporting President Trump could never be matched by the current occupant in the Oval Office. Yet that fraud, Joseph Biden, is once again not bothering to campaign. He's even promised to raise taxes on the middle class, without the slightest worry. Feeling confident behind the millions of illegals he's imported, plus the proven grift of mail-in ballot harvesting, Joseph Biden knows this upcoming "election" is a slam dunk. He has even promised to import Palestinian "refugees," if nothing more than just as a gleeful slap in the face to American citizens and our most trusted ally in the Middle East, Israel. His puppet masters will once again cheat, and lie, and engage in crooked lawfare without the slightest regard to the constitution, the laws of the land, or the will of the people. It worked in 2020, and they are going to keep on doing it. "

-Real James Woods.

Indeed.

nails it.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Crook liar pile of shit - worst president in human history - husk-puppet mobster controlled Soviet Joe could never authentically gather this many people.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

Hope you appreciated the male and female ideals.

@Althouse, I’m not so sanguine about “ideals.” Achilles (the Greek hero, not our commentator) could use more definition in his arm and shoulder muscles. He isn’t bad, mind you, but there are guys in my local gym who have way better definition. Also Achilles looks as though he could stand to do a few stomach crunches. Just sayin’. Poor Hector just looks dead, of course,

What constitutes feminine beauty has varied widely over the millennia. If we can believe the cartoons of John Held, Jr., a hundred years ago during the Roaring Twenties the feminine ideal was a very boyish figure — flat chested and hipless, though with long, slender legs. I’ve had the privilege of seeing a large collection of prints by Albrecht Dürer, and his female nudes also had smallish breasts and slender hips, and a bit of a paunch over their bellies. In the late 19th century women risked long term physical damage to achieve a tiny waist, and they wore bustles under their skirts to make their hips look huge. A highly steatopygous female from the Khoikhoi population of South Africa was exhibited as a freak show attraction called the “Hottentot Venus.”

But Phryne as painted was easy on the eyes.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

Hope you appreciated the male and female ideals.

@Althouse, I’m not so sanguine about “ideals.” Achilles (the Greek hero, not our commentator) could use more definition in his arm and shoulder muscles. He isn’t bad, mind you, but there are guys in my local gym who have way better definition. Also Achilles looks as though he could stand to do a few stomach crunches. Just sayin’. Poor Hector just looks dead, of course,

What constitutes feminine beauty has varied widely over the millennia. If we can believe the cartoons of John Held, Jr., a hundred years ago during the Roaring Twenties the feminine ideal was a very boyish figure — flat chested and hipless, though with long, slender legs. I’ve had the privilege of seeing a large collection of prints by Albrecht Dürer, and his female nudes also had smallish breasts and slender hips, and a bit of a paunch over their bellies. In the late 19th century women risked long term physical damage to achieve a tiny waist, and they wore bustles under their skirts to make their hips look huge. A highly steatopygous female from the Khoikhoi population of South Africa was exhibited as a freak show attraction called the “Hottentot Venus.”

But Phryne as painted was easy on the eyes.