WaPo reports.
So does that mean cannabis is more addictive than alcohol? I searched the article for "addiction" and it only came up as the name of the journal where the study was reported.
२३ मे, २०२४
"More people in the United States say they are using marijuana daily or near daily, compared with people who say they are drinking alcohol that often..."
"... according to a new study. In 2022, about 17.7 million people reported daily or near daily marijuana use, compared with 14.7 million people who reported drinking at the same frequency, said the report, which was based on more than four decades of data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health.... While 'far more people drink' than use marijuana, high-frequency drinking among Americans is less common.... The 2022 survey found that the median drinker reported drinking on four to five days in a month, compared with 15 to 16 days in a month for cannabis."
WaPo reports.
WaPo reports.
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Reporting incentives changed from negative to positive.
Of course marijuana is addictive- very addictive. Anyone claiming otherwise is an idiot or a liar.
And Rhhardin is correct- answering the question truthfully is easier today than it was 10 years ago.
The douchebag kids in front of us on the golf course early o n Sunday morning were smoking weed. Ew...
Additionally, cannabis has a less debilitating after effect (hangover) when indulged responsibly. Makes it a better 'relaxation' option after work than alcohol. Of course, chronic use has its own downsides, but that's true of anything that alters your state of mind.
UBI is intended to cover the weed habit while keeping all the other low income aid in place for necessities...like more weed.
If you use the long-standing definition of "addiction", then no, marijuana is not addictive. The distinguishing signs of addiction are tolerance and withdrawal. This is because addictive substances mimic neurotransmitters. The nerve cells have receptors, which respond to those neurotransmitters, and to the addictive substances that mimic them. Thus the addictive substance causes the brain to react to spurious "messages". But the cells respond by increasing the number of receptors, so they are less susceptible. This causes tolerance - reduced susceptibility to the addictive substance. And when the addictive substance is suddenly no longer present, the messaging system is jammed the other way, causing withdrawal.
Of course, the word "addiction" has been thoroughly debased, or perhaps I should say "overloaded", and now means next to nothing in common parlance. I'm "addicted" to scare quotes.
Yancey Ward said...
Of course marijuana is addictive- very addictive. Anyone claiming otherwise is an idiot or a liar.
Depends on the way addiction is measured.
Usually it is measured by how much dopamine is released compared to normal biological processes.
In this measurement marijuana in tiny amounts releases small amounts of dopamine, but a standard "dose" of marijuana reduces dopamine release which is why most honest people acknowledge that Marijuana is not physically addictive in most cases.
It is less addictive than sugar.
The way marijuana is addictive is that people like how they feel when using it. This is not the same type of addiction as alcohol or caffeine or nicotine.
"Of course, the word "addiction" has been thoroughly debased..."
The meanings of lots of words have been debased lately. Oddly enough (or not, maybe) these often turn out to be words that have political implications.
I don't "spark em' up" anymore but the THC tincture I use at bedtime, placed under the tongue with an eye dropper,
helps this 71 year old sleep through the entire night instead of waking up every three hours. It's quite gentle on the body and mind. More so than otc products, Ambien or Xanax.
Yancey Ward said...
And Rhhardin is correct- answering the question truthfully is easier today than it was 10 years ago.
Of course. After prohibition ended the feds needed a reason to keep their jobs so they went after marijuana and hemp. It just took time for the truth to overcome government propaganda.
There was no good reason for marijuana to ever be illegal and it is certainly safer than alcohol in every possible way.
Looks like the pothead brigade is going to be out in force on this post.
Escapism.
speaking as a (former) stoner; the more often you smoke, the less stoned you feel.
I would:
wake and bake
smoke before lunch
TEA TIME!!
smoke before dinner
smoke (again) before going out
smoke between clubs
smoke once home.
I would ONLY drink after work. I'd Seldom get high AT work, except for breaks and lunch
When i hear people say: "i smoke pot.. Every now and then; i can't understand.
i ASSUME that they couldn't score? Now that pot is dispensed; that no longer seems to a problem
Christopher B said...
Looks like the pothead brigade is going to be out in force on this post.
This is the usual response you get from people who support government confiscation and mommy government.
Most people acknowledge the failure of prohibition. A number of those people can't seem to apply that lesson learned there to other things.
It is also a class/cultural conflict between people who seem to think that alcohol is a high class drug and they look down on people who use marijuana as deplorables.
I want to know if smoking weed is as harmful as smoking cigarettes. Seems to me that inhaling any foreign substance is harmful. The proper comparison is to compare weed with a combination of smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol.
I smoked dope every day for ten years, then just stopped.
Cigarettes were light-years harder to quit - much more addictive.
So are they saying that majijuana users are predeominantely everyday, chronic users whereas people who drink are actually social drinkers?
if you don't think that pot users develop a tolerance..
You must not have tried going through the 80's and 90's Stoned Off Your ASS.
I knew enough hort students at iowa state, that the pot we smoked was NEARLY as potent as the stuff for sale now.. If a "causal user" joined us for a smoke; they'd be wiped out..
And then we'd leave them on the couch and go out cycling.
Marijuana is certainly safer and less destructive than alcohol, and I have long supported its complete legalization, which has been achieved in my state. It's not without its downsides though. I think it has much to do with the distinct lack of ambition among today's youth.
My neighbor's twenty-something son is not allowed to smoke his weed inside their house, so if I go into my back yard at almost any time between 8 am and 2 am, there's maybe a 30% chance of catching a whiff of the smoke coming over the fence. I'm astonished he can afford so much of the stuff, which is still moderately expensive despite legalization, and yet have plenty of time to sit home smoking it all up. I sure wouldn't be indulging him like this if he were my kid.
Everything's going great!
I want to know if smoking weed is as harmful as smoking cigarettes.
Comparably harmful or perhaps even more so on a gram-for-gram basis, but appreciably less so when adjusted for the quantities of each that are typically used in a given period of time. If I had to choose between my kid being a hopeless alcoholic, a 3 pack a day cigarette smoker, or an indolent pothead, I'd choose the pot any day.
No one mentions that the drug is much more powerful than the 60-80 variety. Or the number of cases of people having mental problems from daily smoking or using edibles etc.
But its ok, it keeps people from actually thinking about the dystopian nightmare most people live in now.
And yes, it does have legit medical use, and can be helpful in many ways.
But I think the primary reason is to keep from dealing with issues that are difficult.
Again, Orwell already covered drug use, and the reason for it. f
I use "addictive" in the sense "How easily could you not use a substance or do an activity that you have been doing regularly"
How hard would it be for a daily user of marijuana to give it up for a year? Additional constraint- and not replace it with some other drug to manage the need, even if it is just psychological?
Next up:
Reaping the whirlwind.
Is it intoxicating blasts of stupefaction?
Or is it stupefying blasts of intoxication?
I forget…
Its treated as if it has no side effects. It does. Not the least of which is damaged lungs. But even just using it in other ways, particularly in young people, it can be very problematic.
I'm not calling for a ban on it, but as someone who smoked too much as a younger guy, I wonder how naive people are to look at today's pot- more powerful than ever- and think it's a nothing. It's not nothing. I would not want my kids fucking up their brains with it. Personally.
Not nothing.
We didn't have any alcoholics or heavy cigarette smokers at my junior high in Ann Arbor in the 1970s, but we did have quite a few stoners and burnouts. That's kids at 13-15 years old. And that was with the relatively tame stuff from back then.
A few of my cousins around that age also smoked pot then....and they still are now. Haven't stopped in 50 years.
Of course, few adults cared about kids being wasted in school back then. Or now. Not that the libertarian faction gives sh*t about anyone besides themselves anyway.
Not to mention that many of the perpetrators of the increased criminality we are seeing in D.C. and around the country probably have high levels of cannabis in their system. Of course, few of D.C.'s politicians care about that. They care more about minorities having greater opportunities to be legal drug dealers.
Neither do they care that Our Nation's Capital reeks of weed. You can't drive down the street without being hit with the stench.
I have trouble believing the median drinker only imbibed 4 or 5 times a month. Seems very low.
As for weed, I don't think it is physically addictive.
I do know that people don't smoke weed and start bar fights : )
I remember people arguing that legalizing marijuana would absolutely not result in more marijuana use.
Two people I follow on X (usually with similar political views) have opposite opinions of weed; Cernovich and Scott Adams.
Cernovich is militantly against weed despite being gung-ho for ayahuasca. I guess it's a drug he likes so it's OK...no hypocrisy detected.
Adams freely admits that he smokes weed every day.
Last time I checked there is at least a $50M difference between them in Scott's favor : )
I have trouble believing the median drinker only imbibed 4 or 5 times a month. Seems very low.
Fewer social interactions where people can drink. Public activities are generally either dry, or too expensive (baseball games, for example), and stricter drunk-driving laws make people much more cautious about stopping for a drink or two at the bar before going home.
Althouse writes, "So does that mean cannabis is more addictive than alcohol?"
Logically, no. But it does mean the apologists of pot have heaps of 'splaining to do.
I've dealt with a few potheads in my time. Generally, they have been amiable, but the drunks I've known were similarly affable, which suggests my experience with the set of all habitual users of legal psychotropic drugs is confined to a rather narrow column under the ND curve. That said, I've observed they all share one trait -- a deficient degree of curiosity. They all think their drug of choice enhances their creativity, but what I've seen is more akin to intellectual stagnation. Perhaps that accounts for the turbid listlessness of popular music and the arts generally.
Althouse asks: "So does that mean cannabis is more addictive than alcohol?"
Bingo!
'No one mentions that the drug is much more powerful than the 60-80 variety.'
And yet, it's the very first fucking thing that people mention when the word 'Marijuana' is evoked.
Look up NPC.
I have trouble believing the median drinker only imbibed 4 or 5 times a month. Seems very low.
They must have forgotten to poll Wisconsin.
I don't think that it's a question of cannabis being that addictive. I think that, because excessive alcohol use causes such damage to the body, most people can't abuse it that much.
How many times have you seen people who don't drink before 5 PM or only drink on weekends?
Plus, bad hangovers can be quite a deterrent.
I get the impression that cannabis doesn't create that kind of physical damage to the body.
Well duh..
(Speaking as someone who was in the US Navy back in the 70’s)
"So does that mean cannabis is more addictive than alcohol?"
It means it is more useful than alcohol. Cannabis helps me sleep (good sleep = good health) and works pretty well as a muscle relaxer, relieving backaches and headaches. I'd bet good money the daily use is mainly folks like me who struggle to sleep.
Both side of my gene pool rife with dementia. There is some research that suggests cannabis use protects against that. I'm 63 now - will report back in 20 years if anyone is interested to see how that turned out.
Any data that claims that only 14.7 million adults have at least a single drink 4 or 5 days a week is not good data. A regular beer after work? A glass of wine with supper? Only 14.7 million?
Get outta here.
I thought I must have read that wrong, maybe they meant heavier drinking, but no, that's the claim.
And by the way, marijuana is not a drug, THC is. And THC is no stronger that it ever was.
Sensible dopers, like sensible drinkers, adjust their intake based on the strength of the delivery mechanism.
I want to publicly confess now that I am "addicted" to the Althouse Blog and worse, commenting on the Althouse Blog.
I can't help myself.
God Damn the Pusher Man. Or Woman, as the case may be.
Steppen.
High frequency use of “anything” will produce negative effects. Whether it is cannabis, cocaine, alcohol or food. Addiction is not normally associated with a healthy lifestyle.
I thought smoking was bad for your lungs.
"So does that mean cannabis is more addictive than alcohol?"
It means it is more useful than alcohol. Cannabis helps me sleep (good sleep = good health) and works pretty well as a muscle relaxer, relieving backaches and headaches. I'd bet good money the daily use is mainly folks like me who struggle to sleep.
So far, the principle risk of THC, the percentage of which is higher than in the past, is to adolescents. The number of adolescents who develop schizophrenia is 11 times high in pot smokers.
I use to debate NE Dems on Twitter about the ill effects of legal pot. I referred them to Alex Berenson's book on the topic. They ignored me.
The new pot is much more potent than the pot that Temujin used to smoke back in the last century. People get violent and psychotic. Berenson's wife worked in an NYC emergency room and saw what was happening.
The Dems want us to end up like Pottersville: renters, broke, gamblers and stoned. Give me Jimmy Stewart and Bedford Falls.
I should add that two former NE state senators (Dems Adam Morfeld and Anna Wishart) are all set to cash in on legal pot.
It's certainly not good for people to consume cannabis, but so what? Like all drugs, it should be legal and socially frowned upon. Potheads, junkies, and alcoholics should be pitied and shunned.
@Michael K: The number of adolescents who develop schizophrenia is 11 times high in pot smokers.
Do we know yet with any certainty which way the arrow of causality points in this relationship?
Any data that claims that only 14.7 million adults have at least a single drink 4 or 5 days a week is not good data. A regular beer after work? A glass of wine with supper? Only 14.7 million?
I agree. I've never heard such bullshit. I'd be astonished if the fraction of American adults who average at least one drink per day is fewer than 25 percent.
What's more, an emergency physician of my acquaintance tells me that alcohol intake is at least three times higher than people admit to, based on blood levels in the ER setting.
Much like self-reported "body counts" for sexual encounters. Except there you divide by three for men and multiply by three for women.
Now it can be told. For the last forty years or so, until January, I was a near-daily pot smoker. I've switched over to gummies now; for a few months last year I would smoke and eat gummies at the same time. Before that, I was an occasional toker but a regular and fairly heavy drinker.
I dropped the bong habit for financial and logistical reasons, at a time when I was between flip-phones and getting used to not smoking and hassling with old friend-dealers.
I stopped drinking on any regular basis about the same time back in the 80s. I liked the reefer buzz much more than the booze buzz, and pot never gave me hangovers.
I'm sure I'll partake of some beer and wine again at some point, but I don't crave them.
I don't think I've had any alcohol in the last year, maybe more.
The advantage of cannabis over alcohol is its lack of effect on metabolic disorder and a lower induced proclivity for violence.
Swapping one addiction for another is a mere temporary fix likely to not end well.
"I use* to debate NE Dems on Twitter about the ill effects of legal pot. I referred them to Alex Berenson's book on the topic. They ignored me."
Are the ill effects of legal pot on users as great or greater than the ill effects of legal alcohol on its users? Are the ill effects of legal pot on users sufficiently grave to warrant imposing legal sanctions, from the (currently) sometime minor to the (still currently) quite severe, including incarceration? If so, what say ye about legal sanctions for the mere possession and use of legal alcohol? Yay or nay? It failed before; do you think it can succeed with a new try?
Are the net negative social consequences of use of legal pot less than or greater than the net negative social consequences of use of legal alcohol? Are the net negative social consequences of use of legal pot less than or greater than the net negative social consequences of maintaining the illegal status of possession and use of pot, with the corresponding legal sanctions that follow?
*(used)
Today's reefer is WAY TO STRONG. It not like it was. All the cross breeding etc...
"A little dab'll do ya"
I gave it up. Miller Lite and Marlboro's now.
I don't know if marijuana is addicting.
I think checking out of the life's bullshit is what becomes addicting.
I prefer potheads to drunks.
P.S. I have never been a consumer or even casual user of pot, though I'm in the demographic to have at least dabbled in high school. (I graduated HS in 1973.) I would ride around with teenage pals who would be smoking pot in the car, and I would abstain. I never got any "contact highs."
Later, in middle age, (mid-30s to early 40s), I ingested LSD about 5 or 6 times, Ecstasy about 3 or 4 times, and psychedelic mushrooms 3 times. All in all, I quite enjoyed my experiences with these substances, but I never had the temperament or the ready access to want or be able to continue beyond that sporadic and limited experimentation.
From the article:
"Back in the 1990s, a person averaging two 0.5-gram joints of 4 percent THC weed per week was consuming about 5 milligrams of THC per day on average. Today’s daily users average more than 1.5 grams of material that is 20-25 percent THC, which is more than 300 milligrams per day. That is far more THC than is consumed in typical medical studies of its health effects."
Also, alcohol is processed out of the system in 8-10 hours, where THC is not. THC is still detectable in blood and tissue days after initial usage. (Of course, unlike alcohol, we have yet to determine what an impairment level for driving is, or how to test for it.)
gilbar said...
"ASSUME that they couldn't score?"
It does seem that there would be many previous users that over the years just lost all their connections. They're not about to just pull up to someone standing on the corner. So, just do without. Now... just go to the store.
robother said...
"daily users average more than 1.5 grams of material that is 20-25 percent THC"
Grimacing emoji!
Michael K said...
So far, the principle risk of THC, the percentage of which is higher than in the past, is to adolescents. The number of adolescents who develop schizophrenia is 11 times high in pot smokers.
People below the age of ~25 shouldn't smoke pot or use many of the psychoactive drugs imo.
Especially the concentrates.
Nobody should be using the concentrates really tbh. I have seen that destroy people.
'Today’s daily users average more than 1.5 grams of material that is 20-25 percent THC, which is more than 300 milligrams per day.'
If you're smoking/vaping 1.5 grams a day you are a fairly heavy user.
That's a fair amount of weed...
"Thus, the 2021 national annual per capita consumption level of 2.51 gallons of ethanol equates to a person aged 14 or older consuming approximately an average of 535.5 standard drinks in a year."
Looking at the amount of alcohol sold suggests the statistics quoted by the article are ridiculous.
When I tell a non-weed smoker that my favorite thing is to get high and watch Netflix, they immediately seize upon the weed smoking as addictive and negative - like many are doing here.
Such astounding ignorance! NETFLIX is the addiction! NETFLIX - not the weed. I have thought of using toothpicks to wedge my eyelids open for one more episode. Haven't done it yet....
1) MJ is often a gateway drug to Heroin, Fent, Cocaine
2) We have constant propaganda about the evils of drink. Meanwhile, MJ is constantly portrayed on TV/Movie/MSM as a "Fun/harmless" drug. That's because the rich and powerful have created "Big MJ" and are making mucho dinero off it. The profits must be enormous.
3) The potency of MJ has increased. What is the long term effect of daily use at these high THC levels? It might be very bad. But we as a society have decided that we're going to gamble that it wont be bad. I guess 20 years from now, if we're wrong, we just say "Whoopsie. Sorry you have some big medical problems, but we wanted you to be the medical guinia (sic) pig"
4) Personally, I've never understood why poeple just don't stick to alcohol. Like mankind has done for 5000 years or whatever. But if people want to do drugs, go for it. If it ruins your life or the life of your loved ones, well... you knew the risks. And if you get killed by someone high on MJ or drugs in an auto accident, well you knew the risks of legalized drugs. So sad - for you
"Personally, I've never understood why people just don't stick to alcohol."
Yeah, why should anyone's preferences be different from yours? And everyone knows that car accidents caused by pot are way worse than accidents caused by booze.
Amirite?
1. Orange juice and milk are both gateways to heroin, etc.
2. Your best life asset is the strength of your brain. Anything you do that hinders its utilization is a poor life choice. Unless you REALLY like being high.
3. Yes, it ought to be our own choice. But only if we walk away from the socialistic philosophy that holds that, after you wreck your life's chances, the rest of us should support you.
In terms of addiction cigarettes would trump alcohol and either trump cannabis in difficulty to quit in degrees of cravings. My take. Experienced take
"In terms of addiction cigarettes would trump alcohol and either trump cannabis in difficulty to quit in degrees of cravings. My take. Experienced take"
Cigarettes easily trump methamphetamine and opiates as well.
Of course rcocean weighs in with the absolute stupidest comment of the thread. Yes cannabis is a gateway drug -when you have to go to a drug dealer to buy it!-
I find that a little cannabis (and for me it takes very little) enhances the experience of whisky drinking. Like my taste buds are are hyper-activated. The subtleties of a fine single malt or single barrel bourbon come to the fore.
(Only on weekends!)
I can certainly see that regular cannabis use among the young is not a good thing--certainly not any better than the heavy drinking we did as young adults. Maybe less dangerous, though, in terms of driving, swimming pools, etc.
There are many damaged people for whom cannabis is a godsend. And some for whom cannabis is a "gateway" to "hard" drugs (but wouldn't those people find a way over the fence anyway? People get addicted to oxy simply by getting hurt or having an operation).
There are people who can handle a lot of cannabis and function (not me!) just as there are people who can handle a lot of alcohol and function. And vice-versa.
And that 14 Million everyday drinking thing is pure crap. I think I know a couple of million people myself who would qualify. And I don't get out much.
When I park my car and walk 2 blocks through downtown Harford to go to the YMCA, the smell of weed emanating from the bus stops and passing cars is overwhelming. Sometimes at 9:00 on a Saturday morning. Not to mention the young people working out who smell the same. How they do it I do not know.
But I do not think that it is going away any time soon.
meanwhile, back at the ranch...
Not Even Portlandia Wants a Progressive Prosecutor
Voters in Oregon’s Multnomah County decide to hire a new district attorney.
Earlier this year the state of Oregon reversed its trendy and tragic embrace of drug decriminalization. Now in the Portland area voters have tossed a prosecutor who just wasn’t that into prosecuting.
Noelle Crombie reports for the Oregonian:
Nathan Vasquez, a career Multnomah County prosecutor, has defeated one-term incumbent District Attorney Mike Schmidt… “The voters have made it clear that they are ready to take our county in a new and safer direction,” Vasquez said in a statement to The Oregonian/OregonLive.
As DA, he said he is “dedicated to fulfilling my campaign promises. I am committed to ending open air drug dealing and drug use while helping connect individuals to treatment, to rebuilding the broken relationships between the DA’s office and the community, and to ensuring that victims are the number one priority of my office.”
Dumb teenage snark. Make an argument. If you can.
All that's missing is the eye roll and emo teenage girl valley voice.
How can you use “more than four decades of data” to determine who was doing what in 2022?
Also, burning dried plants and sucking the smoke into your lungs is probably bad for your lungs. Chewing Nicorrette gum, or THC gummies, not so much.
'4) Personally, I've never understood why poeple just don't stick to alcohol. Like mankind has done for 5000 years or whatever.'
4) Personally, I've never understood why poeple just don't stick to child sacrifice. Like mankind has done for 5000 years or whatever.
***
'1. Orange juice and milk are both gateways to heroin, etc.'
Exactly. And Hitler was a vegetarian and loved animals : )
This is my perspective of observing life between booze and pot. In undergrad you can smoke pot and succeed in a stem field, you can also drink, if you study sober.
In Grad School, Pot makes you too lazy to succeed in a challenging field. You can do Hamiltonians and Banach Spaces if you go to the beer hall on Thursday and Saturday but if you like pot you will be less and less capable of coping with the detail and singular motivation required. My experience of fellow students says pot keeps you from the highest levels and makes it easy to rationalize dropping out, more so than booze. In my opinion, pot reduces your IQ. With Booze you can recover your IQ a few days later.
Try to come up with a novel proof if you are a regular pot smoker. Godel was kind of crazy but not a pot head.
The above things have exceptions, but I have seen alot of PhD kids fail because they are just too lackadaisical smoking pot to go the extra mile. They will tell you of their Physics and Philosophy double BA's but end with no PhD.
A salesman can smoke a joint before he snows the customer, but a Chemist can't smoke a joint before he presents his paper. In Chicago you now smell pot everywhere. if I was in high school today I would not smoke pot and go to Purdue and be a famous mathematician due to no competition. If minorities smoke more pot, they won't be competitive.
As an amendment, I play Guitar. And if i wanted to be a great Guitar player and singer I would smoke pot all the time, due to guys like Garcia and McCartney. So, to each his dream.
Friend of mine 40 years back told me of a time he went camping with some of his friends from Georgia Tech.
They were sitting around a campfire, having a high ol' time. He realized at a certain point it was raining, and had been for a while. He eventually went to bed, soaked to the skin - and he realized he'd gotten too stupid to come in out of the rain.
That was the last time he used pot.
I haven't used the stuff - always figured life was rough enough without my synapses scrambled.
Nobody has asked "What is in this shit?".
Paraquat, fentanyl, heroin?
I'll withhold judgement till the Chinese crop comes in.
Must be some kinda way outta here.
"Personally, I've never understood why poeple just don't stick to alcohol. Like mankind has done for 5000 years or whatever."
You don't think mankind has also used drugs other than alcohol for "5,000 years or whatever?"
Also, among the several reasons for humans preparing and drinking alcohol throughout history, one significant reason was because the available water was often filthy: polluted and undrinkable, also filled with parasites and other nasty microorganisms. (Why do you think visitors to some countries--such as Mexico--are still advised to NOT drink the tap water?)
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