"That’s why they’re losing the PR war. They, Israel, is absolutely losing the PR war... releasing the most heinous, most horrible tapes of buildings falling down. And people are imagining there’s a lot of people in those buildings, or people in those buildings, and they don’t like it.... I don’t know why they released wartime shots like that. I guess it makes them look tough. But to me, it doesn’t make them look tough.... They’re losing the PR war. They’re losing it big. But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life."
Said Donald Trump, on Hugh Hewitt's radio show, quoted in "Trump used to brag about his support for Israel. Now his criticisms are growing sharper/'I don’t know why they released wartime shots like that. I guess it makes them look tough. But to me, it doesn’t make them look tough,' Trump said" (Politico).
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४९ टिप्पण्या:
Strange how no one talks about Oct 7th massacre.
It's as if it never happened.
Strange no one talks about the hostages - that may or may not be alive. Kept and tortured by regular Palestinians.
they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast...
Still clearly a different attitude from the Biden Administration.
I think Israel should turn Gaza into glass.
Oct 7th proved that.
Stop trying to straddle the line. Most of the Palestinians are Jew-hating a-holes. They can die with their bad decision making.
The Palestinians have been offered a state so many times - they no longer deserve one.
Get lost - earth cancer. and take the White Left Ayatollahs of Iran with you.
Grab Putin on your way down to hell.
Israel is losing the Holocaust brand, but it's a low-IQ battle anyway, namely who is the biggest victim.
Jewish scholarship is based on alienation, a creative resource, but never mentions the Holocaust. That's for the dumb end of the curve, to maintain alienation in them and in particular preventing them from assimilating.
I doubt that Trump is interested in Jewish scholarship so branding is the big deal to him.
Tapes? You can tell what generation Trump belongs to.
His cautionary words are worth heeding. The Democrats will go anywhere and pay any price to defend their allies, but they're just as soon to turn on a Diem (as they say in Vietnam) if they feel their ally doesn't live up to their high standards. The Democrats would love to do to the IDF what they've done to local police departments here....The Middle East is inhabited by maniacs. Who would have thought that Saddam was the most statesmanlike and progressive leader in Iraq? Whatever comes after Hamas will probably be worse.
Trump approaches the third rail.
I hate to say that Trump is right, but he’s right in the sense that Israel is, and has always notoriously been, terrible at P.R. There’s no country in the world with a better story to tell. What they’ve accomplished in 75 years is biblically miraculous. They also have 20% non-Jewish citizens with full civil rights, compared to their 22 Arab-country neighbors with essentially 0% Jews. Yet Israel “is an apartheid state.”
As for colonization, Arabs are the most successful colonizers in history. (See above.) Jews speak the same language, read the same book, and pray the same way on the same land they did three millennia ago. There might have been a handful of Arabs in the Levant, but not more than a few. (Hagar was Egyptian.)
"they’ve got to finish it fast"
Correct. Israel has moved way too slowly, allowing the PR campaign against it to metastasize.
Instead of occupying the whole damn strip, it's cycling units in and out. Instead of making clear that it will not be blackmailed by hostages, Israelis keep wailing. Instead of taking Rafah, it's asking Joe nicely.
I think Israel is starting to figure out that maybe the USA isn't going to be the steadfast political and military partner it has always relied on. Most especially because of their and American Jews reliance on the democratic party to vouchsafe the totally undeserved and irrational military and economic support they receive. Dems are savvy political animals. They know which side their bread is buttered on, and they've been increasingly in-the-bag for Mohamedans since Fairey made his American flag hijabed hope art 10 years ago.
Israel might be waking up to the fact they might have to go it alone for the remainder of the century. Good. That's the way it always should have been. That country has been a massive geopolitical liability since before we started covering for their illegal nuclear program.
On the day we finally get rid of Israel-USA dual-citizenship, we'll know things are headed in the correct direction.
@cassandra, how much does it suck to admit Trump is right?
Bad PR?
Do f off. Israel is hated by the corrupt left and the Jew-hating radical Islamist earth cancer cult. No amount of PR can save us from the overwhelming evil of the corrupt left and the radical Jew-hating earth cancer cult.
I can’t beat Cassandra’s post.
I will note that Biden’s support of Israel is much less, and now today, as it was with Ukraine and has been with Israel, John Kirby announces the US doesn’t support Taiwan independence. Another war that Biden and supporters will claim he didn’t cause with his feckless attitude.
This is what Politico says is criticism getting sharper? It's just minor quibbles about PR. Hard to even call it a criticism. I think they were just looking for a headline that would make it look like Trump was turning against those evil (in Politico's world) Israeli's. It's a ridiculous take on what was actually quoted. But par for the media course.
From the transcript:
HH: I want to begin with Israel, Mr. President, because Sunday marked six months since October 7th. And you gave an interview recently to Israel Hayom, which was characterized by many on the left as being critical of Israel. Then Jonathan Tobin writes this morning, wait a minute, that’s not right. Trump was the friendliest president ever for Israel. Have you been mischaracterized in your advice to Israel?
DJT: "Look, Israel should have never happened. If I were president, it would not have happened. Iran was broke. They had no money. They had no nothing. And we would have worked, a deal with Iran would have been made already. In the meantime, they’re going to have a nuclear weapon within probably 45 or 60 days. And then, it’s going to be a little tougher to talk to them. But October 7th would have never happened. They never, ever would have been attacked. But it is what it is, and this horrible thing happened. And what I said very plainly is get it over with, and let’s get back to peace and stop killing people. And that’s a very simple statement. Get it over with."
https://hughhewitt.com/former-president-donald-trump-on-israels-war-2024-and-much-more
He ain't wrong.
The message is the same here as in Ukraine--win early and win big, or risk the whole structure.
Clausewitz writes that the worst mistakes in war often arise from soft-heartedness; van Creveld adds that over time the stronger party, if they don't win, will be seen as the villain regardless of how a conflict arose.
It's obvious to me that the hostages are mostly dead by now.
We should expect Drago to call Trump an antisemitic Hamas supporter any time now.
Blogger Joe Biden, America's Putin said...
I think Israel should turn Gaza into glass...Oct 7th proved that.
But then you kill a lot of innocent people that have been brainwashed by Hamas. There are people in Gaza that are victims of Hamas and Israel.
We see the same brainwashing and its effects here in America. Look at the libs who watch and read MSM...and buy all the bullshit propaganda. It's the same kind of effective brainwashing. Some are more susceptible than others.
1) Trump is going to stand by Israel, because if he doesn't he's going to jail. Literally. No National- wide Politican can stand up to the AIPAC and survive for long. The ADL and the Israel lobby is so powerful they can make any public figure dance to their tune, or they are destroyed.
2) Trump has Jewish grandkids. He's always been Pro-Israel.
3) So, its natural his criticism of Israel is basically "Bad optics".
4) And expecting Trump to attack Biden on Israel killing aid workers and committing Genocide is a fools errand. If Trump did so, none of the libtards who pretend to care about Gaza would vote for him or support him. You saw that during the Trump administration. Those Liberal/Leftists who criticized "the blob" and attacked our "Invade the world" strategy under Obama, refused to support Trump when he tried to dial things back with Putin or NK. The liberal/leftists either went silent or found some way to attack Trump, even when he was doing something they had earlier suppported.
5) As for the Conservatives, any pundit who attacks Israel gets fired by conservative inc. Cf: Candance Owens. Or to a lesser degree Tucker.
6) In any case, Trump can't be any worse then Biden. And he might be better.
It's meaningless to say that Israel is losing the PR battle, because regardless of what they might have done, there was never any possibility that they would win it. The world doesn't hate them because of their tactics. They're running the most civilian-safe was in history. The world hates them simply because they're Jews.
As for me, I want Israel to stop bombing churches, hospitals, relief aid centers, UN personnels, women and children, people bringing food to starving peope, and International aid workers.
Israel acts like Nazi stormtroopers cleaning out the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943. Nobody says boo about it, because the "bleeding heart" libtards are fakes and always have been. Anytime they cry about "injustice" or "War crimes" its only because they dislike the people or country that's doing it. Otherwise, they don't care.
As for me, I want Israel to stop bombing churches, hospitals, relief aid centers, UN personnels, women and children, people bringing food to starving peope, and International aid workers.
Israel acts like Nazi stormtroopers cleaning out the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943. Nobody says boo about it, because the "bleeding heart" libtards are fakes and always have been. Anytime they cry about "injustice" or "War crimes" its only because they dislike the people or country that's doing it. Otherwise, they don't care.
Israel needs to be preparing for the day the U.S. government will actively be an enemy. There are no good outcomes for the Israelis any longer. They should have emptied Gaza and the West Bank 57 years ago, but that is water under the bridge. It needs to be done today, too, but is much harder now. Their, the Israelis', borders are simply indefensible in their current geography.
I think Israel should turn Gaza into glass.
I feel the need to push back on this rhetoric and I'll do so on point to what Trump is saying. I haven't forgotten October 7th, and I have never commented against Israel's response nor am I doing so now. However, the notion of turning "Gaza in glass" plays directly to the opposition's argument that Israel is committing, or at least willing to commit, a genocide.
I understand the comment and sentiment. I felt the same after 9/11 when supporting US going into Afghanistan. I had lots of friends that actually went into Afghanistan. None of them would support that sentiment today, even if they can recall a moment while being there that it was a good idea. They know that the bad, they'll use the word "evil", people purposely interweave with the innocent population to promote that PR.
And this is why I agree with Trump about the PR. I'll even ad that touting the freed hostages comments that ordinary Palestinian civilians supported their torture is not good PR. Sure, that information needs to come out, yet I chose my word as "touting". The only justification is Oct. 7th. Fight the war, kill who needs to be killed, and get out. That has my support.
For those that might recall Schwartzkopf showing similar videos, please note that war lasted six weeks and was over. Schwartzkopf was not coy about the potential of lives being destroyed, and if you recall the famous video of a truck making it over a bridge; I never thought for a second that the driver was an intended target that barely got away. Schwartzkopf used those videos to show the world that what his troops were doing wasn't with the intention to be indiscriminate. Rather it was the direct intention of ending the war quickly with as few casualties as necessary. That's how you do PR.
An effective PR war is much better than a kinetic war, which is why I criticized John Kirby earlier.
I listened to that entire interview and (no surprise) the Politico headlines is misleading, trying to tie Biden's waning support to Trump. The juxtaposition of "used to brag about his support" with a "but" section is a headline writer's trick. There is no but. He still supports Israel, and his criticisms literally have not "sharpened" any since 10/8 when he immediately asked "how could Bibi" and the "IDF not see this coming?" That's pretty blunt criticism, isn't it?
But Trump's "finish it" and Biden's "cease fire" are worlds apart, and my belief is Politico is trying to blur that distinction, as they wish to help Biden. Trump is always cognizant of the PR campaign governments must wage even as they fight actual kinetic battles.
The largest takeaway from the interview for me is that Hugh broke up what was essentially an nearly hour-long live interview into two days. No notes. No pre-screened questions (according to Hewitt's producer). Just free-ranging extemporaneous banter of the kind Biden is wholly incapable of doing. The old man can't even read his answers off a teleprompter very well, much less field unknown questions.
It's the McClellan v Grant and Sherman debate. Being a war criminal is ok, if it gets the war over faster. When you win quickly, everybody forgets the burning of civilian homes, the rapes, the torture. But if you go slow, to avoid civilian deaths, you get stalemate. And you lose the barrative.
meanwhile..
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hamass-numbers-games-civilian-death-counts-casualty-data-b99140eb?mod=opinion_lead_pos8
Hamas’s Casualty Numbers Games
Journalists and Joe Biden lend credence to bogus counts from the Gaza Health Ministry.
The ministry says its casualty counts include two types of fatalities: those recorded by medical facilities and those reported by “reliable media sources.” In its March 31 report, the ministry attributes 15,070 of the dead, or 45.9%, to news reports. From which outlets? The ministry never says.
Its choices are limited, since Gaza has no independent media.
Gabriel Epstein..found that the deaths attributed to “reliable media sources” consisted almost entirely of women and children. Of the 6,629 fatalities attributed to media, 1,941 were women, 4,678 children and only 10 men.
Over time, media reports have accounted for an ever larger share of the ministry’s data. Of nearly 11,000 fatalities reported between Jan. 1 and March 31, the ministry derived 77.7% from media reports. Adult males account for only 9% of fatalities attributed to the news, even though Gaza’s sex ratio is close to even and more than half its residents are adults.
i'm interested in hearing rcocean's comments/explanations/whitewashings
rc?
So incredibly disengenuous to read the transcript of what he said and try to spin it that his criticisms are growing sharper. He is saying they need to not release videos of their efforts and finish destroying Hamas as soon as possible. The PR line is a criticism, I suppose, but not of the actual war effort. Many people who believe Israel has every right and must destroy Hamas, agree with him! Wanting it done quickly is a sentiment shared by the vast majority of Israelis! Biden Admin are the ones who seem to want this drawn out and/or ended in withdraw and therefore failure.
Dems are savvy political animals. They know which side their bread is buttered on, and they've been increasingly in-the-bag for Mohamedans since Fairey made his American flag hijabed hope art 10 years ago.
This is what happens when a particular interest group (in this case, American Jews) vote as a solid, unquestioning block - they get ignored in favor of a vocal minority whose votes are not certain.
Israel is, and has always notoriously been, terrible at P.R.
Well, I suppose that depends on at whom they're aiming their videos. I'm inclined to agree with Joe Biden, American Putin that Israel is well aware there's nothing they can do to move "world opinion" in their favor - the Holocaust dividend was spent decades ago. So, knowing they can ultimately only rely on themselves, I could see them deciding that they need to keep their own people on the side of believing they can finish this, more than trying to convince entrenched anti-Zionists (to be charitable) that they, the Zionists (to be euphemistic), have the right of it.
But I have been caught before in the trap of believing that people significantly culturally different from me will nevertheless think and act the way I would. (See, for instance, Iraq.) So it's very very possible that I'm completely misattributing motivations.
The leftmediaswine have to put a negative spin on everything Trump. Everything I have read or heard from Trump is that Israel should finish Hamas - quickly.
"They're running the most civilian-safe was in history."
Let's not get into absurdities now.
Is it that Israel is "horrible at PR" or is it that the leftmedia screws them just as it screws Republicans and Trump?
The leftmedia is the enemy of mankind. They lie, censor and distort, frequently without even knowing why. It's who they are.
For example: Did you know that jihad is ongoing in Nigeria? Last year 4000 Christians were murdered by Muslims there. Is that perhaps relevant to the Israeli conflict? (Source: Global Christian Relief.)
Consider: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)." Hamas Covenant, 1988.
This Econtalk with former Israeli ambassador Michael Oren gives me good context
And, the lesson is this, not just in 1967, but of all of wars--1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, I can go on and on 1982, 1991, the First Gulf War, Second Lebanon War, all our wars with Gaza, and I'm probably leaving out a few--in almost every case, the United States said to us, 'Don't go to war.' Every case. Even the Iraq nuclear operation, 1981, they said 'No.' And, every time we said, 'Thank you, but we have to defend ourselves,' the Americans got angry and later they respected us for it.
https://www.econtalk.org/should-israel-depend-on-the-us-with-michael-oren/
He also discusses the times when they acceded to US demands not to respond and how the were rewarded with pressure to give up territory and compromise after.
America likes a country--maybe it's human nature--it likes a country that stands up for itself. Every time the United States has said to us, 'Don't go to war,' and we didn't go to war, not only did we end up paying a price, but we ended up getting contempt from the United States. Disdain. That was the case in 1973, where Kissinger said to Golda, 'Don't launch a preemptive strike.' Did we get respect after 1973? We got a lot of pressure for territorialist[?] discussions.
I think one motive for Israel's publishing the air raids and resulting destruction in Gaza and matters like the attacks on the aid trucks is that they have a long-standing policy of reporting honestly on their actions, even when the reports make for bad PR. The only photos they don't take are of their own dead, for reasons of treating the dead with respect. This has been a consistent policy of the government.
I think it is wise. If they did not report, all the world would see would be Pallywood exaggerated reports. Besides, not reporting itself would make for bad PR--"they're hiding something!"
Also, I recall during a visit to Germany (Munich) about 20 years ago, seeing in a reserved spot on the otherwise empty public square in front of the Dom a large display on how Israel was committing "genocide against the Palestinians."
If the US and other democratic governments, or authoritarian governments wanting to focus on economic growth and war avoidance, can't see the danger of supporting Iran and the advantages of supporting Israel, I don't think Israeli efforts at PR would have much success anyway.
8:42: "[Hostages] kept and tortured by regular Palestinians."
Regular Palestinians? The vast majority of them are Jew haters demanding a "right of return" to a country that never existed in a place they've never lived.
Without worldwide antisemitism promoted by the UN, they would be ashes.
Gee, if it was just a "hospital" why did it take six weeks of combat to "take it"? And if it was just a "refugee camp" why was there four subterranean levels stocked with luxury accommodations for "fighters" and a huge "meeting room" down there with A/C? And if those industrious Hamas workers can build all this shit why do they keep tearing out their own sewer systems to turn pipe into rockets? And if Israel is truly "starving" Gaza how is that there any international chefs in there working at all?
So many puzzling circumstances for the world's most innocent civilians! Being pro-Hamas in 2024 is akin to being pro-German in 1942. What a coincidence that Hamas shares Hitler's Final Solution too. And are just as willing to surrender as old Adolph was. Amazing!
"Instead of making clear that it will not be blackmailed by hostages, Israelis keep wailing. Instead of taking Rafah, it's asking Joe nicely."
I've heard that Egypt won't allow this.
It would explain the delay.
How long has it been? 9 years?
Nine years of getting President Trump wrong. Lots of reasons why. A lot, no matter the facts, what every the media "believes" will make Trump look bad, they run with it.
In this instance. Trump is ONLY critiquing Israel's messaging actions. He did the same when he was critical of Florida doing the 6 week abortion bill. Trump is OK with 6 weeks. BUT that gives opponents a platform to counter attack. Trump only repeats the business cardinal rule.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Despite the lefts constant lying about how stupid Trump is, 4 decades of history show Trump is a MARKETER. ie, messenger. He intuitively knows how to talk to the target audience.
The 'Palestinians' are the idiots of the Arab world. Nobody wants anything to do with them.
Just check out the wall between Egypt and Gaza.
Trump is correct about finishing the job.
"They’re losing the PR war. They’re losing it big. But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life."
Exactly in line with my view which I stated here some time ago.
They have something they must do, they will do it, it will be ugly, and they need badly to get on with it.
The longer this brews the worse it will be for Israel in the long run.
The Gaza strip is 140 sq. miles. That's the same size as Detroit. Jacksonville, Fl. is 875 sq. miles. They're six months into the war.
They need a Patton. Or a Grant. Or a Sherman.
fwiw
Hamas exists because Iran and Gaza exist
Gaza exist because Israel fund it
Israel fund Gaza because for Netanyahu Hamas is political football to bring out when he is in trouble in Israel Knesset.
now football is dribbling around Bibi
Israel has not bombed "The Hospital" its bombed Hospitals. Numerous ones over the last six months. Its not killed (1) one international aid worker, it killed numerous ones. the seven Kitchen employees were just the last.
But, Y'know I understand. People are Israel shills. Israel right or wrong. who cares about war crimes or atrocities. Just stop pretending you care about Genocide or the Holocaust or war crimes past or present, because its all really just about WHO. If its Israel committing Genocide its OK, if its someone you don't like its "Why God, why?"
Putin, "just like Hitler" isn't bombing hosptials or churches , or deliberately killing UN workers. Israel has killed more womena and children in Gaza than Ukraine AND Russia have done in two years.
I think it is interesting how Trump is focused on the falling buildings. He is a builder, he loves buildings, and it pains him to see tapes of buildings falling down. Probably the worst thing you can do to a building you know? To make it fall down. Sad.
Joe Biden, America's Putin said...
I think Israel should turn Gaza into glass.
Oct 7th proved that.
Stop trying to straddle the line. Most of the Palestinians are Jew-hating a-holes. They can die with their bad decision making.
The Palestinians have been offered a state so many times - they no longer deserve one.
Get lost - earth cancer. and take the White Left Ayatollahs of Iran with you.
Grab Putin on your way down to hell.
So you agree with Trump.
Funny how that Trump guy seems to get things right.
Leland said...
I think Israel should turn Gaza into glass.
I feel the need to push back on this rhetoric and I'll do so on point to what Trump is saying. I haven't forgotten October 7th, and I have never commented against Israel's response nor am I doing so now. However, the notion of turning "Gaza in glass" plays directly to the opposition's argument that Israel is committing, or at least willing to commit, a genocide.
The problem is that they are not willing to.
Israel had 3 options:
1. Immediate overwhelming destruction and forced surrender of the people of the Gaza strip and forcing them to disband as a tribe and be absorbed into surrounding tribes.
2. Massive rebuild and humanitarian mission of Gaza with call outs of Hamas terrorists and punishment for support of Hamas. Providing governance and security for Gaza and making it untenable for people to attack obvious rebuilding efforts.
3. Utterly predictable slow inching campaign where you try to not kill "civilians" and instead of turning Gaza into a ruin in 1 month you spread it out over 12 moths and let every joker with a cell phone camera post it to the internet.
Choosing option number 3 was stupid and Netanyahu should be called out for it.
When has Israel ever been allowed good PR?
They have always been hated. Good, bad, neutral....they have always been despised.
Meanwhile, even just reading Trump's rambles are tiresome.
Mark said...
"When has Israel ever been allowed good PR?
They have always been hated. Good, bad, neutral....they have always been despised.
Meanwhile, even just reading Trump's rambles are tiresome."
Oh. Trump is tiresome. When Trump was your tiresome president none of this shit was going on. We live in a world you helped to make. I'm betting you're not finding wars and impending wars tiresome. Are you finding inflated food and fuel prices tiresome? I am. I'll take a loudmouth orange man and peace and prosterity.
When has Donald Trump been allowed good PR?
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