The NY Post reports.
“Let’s say your boat goes down and I’m sitting on top of this big powerful battery and the boat’s going down,” Donald Trump mused to a group of supporters in the landlocked state of Iowa. “Do I get electrocuted?”
Trump then dramatically upped the stakes by imagining the sinking electric boat was also being circled by a shark. “So I have a choice of electrocution or shark,” he went on. “You know what I’m going to take? Electrocution. I will take electrocution every single time.”...
What about if you drive an electric vehicle into a lake — would that electrocute you? Are first responders afraid to help people in submerged EVs? Would they leave you inside to die?!...
And a few months after Trump's prominent fear-mongering, exactly that may have happened to Mitch McConnell’s sister-in-law.
[A]ll the electric boat manufacturers I was in touch with said they meet a waterproofing standard that is either at, or just below, what is required for a submarine....
Still, you definitely don’t want to sit on an exposed “big powerful battery,” as Trump suggests in his scenario, since you could theoretically interrupt the closed loop of a DC battery’s electrical circuit and get shocked. But just being on an electric boat that is sinking does not inherently expose you to electrocution danger....
Electric shock drowning is caused by faulty wiring at a dock or a marina leaking 120-volt alternating current into the water. That electricity can potentially kill a nearby swimmer on its own, or cause them to become incapacitated and drown.
This overwhelmingly happens in lakes and rivers, since human bodies are a better conductor of electricity than fresh water but not saltwater.... “In fresh water, the current gets ‘stuck’ trying to return to its source and generates voltage gradients that will take a shortcut through the human body.”...
Like electric boats, EV batteries are obsessively insulated and the cars are designed with a number of fail-safes to isolate the battery in the case of an accident.... What’s important to understand is that unlike the 12-volt batteries used in gas-powered cars, which are harmlessly grounded to the car’s large chassis, high-voltage systems in EVs use a floating ground, which helps prevent you from being electrocuted if the car becomes submerged.
Helps prevent.... That doesn't sound completely reassuring. The next thing in the article is a quote from a GM safety engineer that I find very hard to read:
“It’s not grounded chassis — there is no return path for a vehicle that has been submerged to return that charge.... And if there [are] any faults or anomalies with the high voltage system, and it’s operating in normal functioning ranges, it’s going to shut off anyway.”
Maybe someone can explain that to me. If you're submerged in a Tesla in a freshwater pond, isn't your body the "return path"?
ALSO: The Wall Street Journal article has more information. It says that Chao was not taken to a hospital and no autopsy was performed. Do we know that she died of drowning?
The local EMS station has one ambulance to cover 7,000 people spread out over 200 square miles. Properties more than two miles away from the station are generally given the weakest insurance safety rating of 10 based on how quickly help can arrive. The ranch is twelve miles from the station. New York, Austin and other major cities have a rating of one, by contrast....
No one in the family blames Tesla, according to a person familiar with the situation. [Chao's husband Jim] Breyer and his wife had three Teslas and loved them, and often spoke about how electric vehicles were good for the planet. Breyer considers himself a friend of Elon Musk's....
Many drivers mistakenly think that they should try to open their door if their car becomes immersed in water, said Gordon Giesbrecht, a senior scholar at University of Manitoba who studies vehicle-submersion deaths. Due to the pressure of the water, it would be nearly impossible to open a submerged car door.
I thought once the car fills with water, you can open the door.
Posts
68 comments:
What a terrible way to go, poor woman.
Glass-breaking gadgets are easy to come by a cheap, I have 2 in every vehicle.
By the way, rescuers have been electrocuted working on electric vehicles before.
I like Elon Musk - and I wish him the best... but....
electric cars of all makes and models - are not the panacea the collective left have promised.
Pro tip: If you happen to drive your Tesla into a pond, your first move while sinking should be to lower the driver’s window.
".. Blanco County emergency units finally arrived at 12:28 a.m. — a full 24 minutes after they received the call...."
Ya, remote Texas ranches are often far, far away from everything.
Awful way to go.
Ann:
The ChiComs hacked her car, put it in reverse and locked the car and windows.
An HBS grad put the car in reverse instead of drive? Not likely!
LOL, At least they didn't say "Putin inspired fear."
This gets a bit ghoulish, but for various reasons I have given some thought to this. Mythbusters dealt with it at least once.
1. People who are anti-seat belt used to say the seat belt will trap you. This is about the least of your problems.
2. If the biggest problem is the water pressure forcing the doors closed, making it almost impossible to open them, does it make sense to wait for the car to fill with water, breathing by the roof for as long as possible, then open the door? Mythbusters said you will die if you try this.
3. There is a tool you can buy to break the window from the inside. This should work, but it might be awkward to get yourself out the window.
4. I heard a police officer report on a case: a woman driving on a somewhat inadequate road, right by a drainage canal, in a blizzard. Her young son strapped into a seat in the back. She went into the water. There was evidence that she got out of her belt OK, went into the back seat and may have released the straps restraining her son. But: she had the child-safe locks on, and quite possibly the power windows wouldn't function. Both drowned.
4. My understanding is that almost all cars now have power windows and door locks, controlled by battery. How long before your battery cuts out once the car is immersed? There may be a tremendous variation from one model to another. So yes, it is well worth asking about a Tesla.
The water pressure prevents any car door from opening. If you're sinking, the smart thing to do is open the door or window before you're submerged.
I haven't seen any suggestion that Tesla's windshield is unusually unbreakable.
Tesla's electric parts are sealed, but even so, I can't think of why a submerged Tesla would pose any more risk than any other submerged car battery. Current wants to go to the other terminal, not through you
Weird story.
Didn't know Mitch's sister-in-law was a billionaire? Wow.
It wasn't that long...why did the car leak so much?
If the car was filling up with water, why didn't she get out at that point?
The latch is electrically activated, but there is a mechanical option to open the door if you're inside the car, but I'm guessing most owners don't know this.
Drive and Reverse are selected by either pushing up (R) or down (D) on the right-hand stalk behind the steering wheel.
Once you've driven the car for a couple of days it is reflexive.
Was it rented?
WAAAY to many inconsistencies to be believable here.
But we got the slam on Trump in!
SUCCESS!
Will the life insurance pay anyway?
"And a few months after Trump's prominent fear-mongering..."
That bastard. Everybody knows that fear-mongering (prominent or otherwise) is the sole province of the MSM.
Its a good thing to have roll down windows, since that is the easist way out of submerged car. This reminds me of Jessica Savage who died when her car went into a flooded ditch. She had electric roll down windows and she couldn't open them and died.
One thing I've worried about. If your car gets submerged at night, and the water is polluted or dark, do you know which way is up? Also your car when it his bottom may be upside down or on its side.
Anyway, McConnell's sister-in-law is Chinese and billionaire. Seems to explain ol' Mitch's love for globalism, tax cuts, and open borders/amnesty doesn't it? Seems he's not good ol' Mitch from Kentucky.
This happened a month ago, why is it only news now that Mitch is retiring?
The journal article indicate that you have a minute to open a window when a car enters the water, regardless of make. Only the very old fashion cars with manual winches give you longer.
Windshields and ALL auto glass components must meet strict motor vehicle safety standards.
Not much variance in shattering to be found there. Windshields have an internal membrane which contain the results of shattering.
Something, (maybe many things), are wrong here. Including "slowly" sinking into a "pond".
How far back?
In reverse gear?
Intoxicants involved?
I used to fly offshore in helicopters a lot, and once every couple of years, you would have to re-certify for this by taking a course in getting out of a downed helicopter. They have big pools and simulators for this. You strap into a seat in the simulator, and it dunks into the pool and rolls over, the way a helicopter does. Then, it's up to you to hold your breath, keep your head, undo your harness, punch out the window, and swim away. You're wearing coveralls or a heavy cold-water survival suit, so it's not easy. It's not easy being upside down, strapped in, underwater, either.
The critical thing to do is keep your head, and there's enough practice repeating this in the course that it gets ingrained. The statistical evidence from crash survivability bears out the merit of having a training protocol in place.
If you're in a submerging car, the best thing to do is get your belt off and get the window down before the electrics crap out, or shatter a side window with your gizmo - all dependent on being conscious and keeping your head.
Dumbed down answer to Alhouse's question.
Electricity is trying to get from the hot side of the battery to the cold side, or to (literally) the earth. In real cars, the cold side is connected to the frame and body, so these are easy ways back. A floating ground is floating because it is not connected to the frame and body, so the only way back is through wires. But these wires are broken by tough paths like motors and off switches, so when you hit water, the water becomes an easier way back to the cold side or to earth.
If you are physically between the hot side and the thing the electricity is trying to get to, you can become a shortcut if you are easier to get through than the water is.
If she was a billionaire I wonder if she had bullet resistant glass installed.
For those who may ever need it:
If you need to bust a window there are two good solutions in every car. The seatbelt itself, but ideally you pull out the headrest and use its hardened prongs to shatter the glass.
Hard to tell for sure from the story, but it sounds like she was still alive when help arrived?
2. If the biggest problem is the water pressure forcing the doors closed, making it almost impossible to open them, does it make sense to wait for the car to fill with water, breathing by the roof for as long as possible, then open the door? Mythbusters said you will die if you try this.
I believe that, as the pocket of air gets smaller and smaller (and as you breath in the oxygen and exhale CO2, the oxygen gets removed and you will effectively asphyxiate on the oxygen-depleted air.
Nice that they work in a blame Trump angle. The biggest danger from submersion is water getting into the battery and setting it on fire.
With ANY car, if you go into water, lower ALL the windows as fast as you can. You're gonna get wet either way, and it's better to be ALIVE wet. If the car is filled with water you also have a chance to open the door because the pressure is equalized, otherwise forget it.
I carry a couple of ResQme tempered-glass breakers, one in the car (for me) and another on my keys (for other folks it I'm away from the car). The device includes a seatbelt cutter, and is very affordable. I also carry a leather glove now, because a few years back I rescued a trucker and the bursting glass produced quite a few minor cuts.
Other standard-carry items for me are a 20-lb fire extinguisher in the trunk, along with a box of Kotex, adhesive tape, and a couple of tourniquets, knowing that my belt can be a third, if needed.
Ventilation and wiring passages will let water in for most makes of cars, some much quicker than others.
How do you go about trying to break the window with the seatbelt? I can’t picture that.
“Sheriff’s deputies even stood on top of it during the rescue efforts, trying to bust open a window.”
Trying? That’s got to be wrong, but if some deputies couldn’t break open a window, what chance did Angela Chao have? The New York Post reports that both her friends and the ranch manager arrived on the scene fairly quickly, and some of them went into the water. I wouldn’t bet money on a group of HBS grads being able to break a car window, but the ranch manager should have had any number of tools suitable for that purpose, although perhaps not at hand.
"How do you go about trying to break the window with the seatbelt? I can’t picture that."
Probably by using the metal buckle.
Looks like the only real solution is to buy a glass breaker (as stated above) and use it. You need a better option then "Get the window open before you go under". Easier said then done. Maybe given your shock and surprise, you'll think of it, but chances are you wont. Of course if you happen to land upright, and you are SLOWLY sinking, MAYBE you can do that.
People always seem to discount the shock factor. Nobody expects thier car to go into the water, and the impact will jolt you and disorietante (sic) you. So, I wouldn't count on your getting the window rolled down in time.
Of course, the other alternative, is never roll up the window when near water.
Althouse writes "And why was the window so hard to break?"
That's our glorious Department of Transportation Automotive Safety Division at work. Automobile glass helped kill and maim thousands back in the day when it was hardly more resilient than windowpane material. Modern automotive glass is designed to flex rather than break. To break it, one must apply considerable force, between 20,000 and 24,000 pounds per square inch. Unfortunately for Chao, death and injury caused by road accidents are what most safety regulations are designed to counter. Car sinkings are statistically insignificant. There's another problem with car sinkings and breaking glass. If tempered glass is cushioned by water on both sides, the force needed to break it increases significantly. Chao could have saved herself by fully retracting her driver's side window before the water shorted the electrics, but she didn't appreciate the hazard presented by that nearby pond. Or she could have bought a car with window cranks, but do rich people do that? Let's ask Ted Kennedy.
There is a safety escape tool available that according to the manufacturer's claim can save your life in a sinking accident. It has a blade that can slash through seatbelt webbing and a springloaded hammer that can shatter automotive glass. But if you just keep your windows down anywhere closeby a body of water, that tool isn't necessary.
tommyesq writes, "Hard to tell for sure from the story, but it sounds like she was still alive when help arrived?"
Mary Jo Kopechne, abandoned by Ted Kennedy, lived for hours in that sunken overturned '67 Oldsmobile breathing from an air pocket in the passenger-side footwell. Sunken cars rarely fill up completely until days or weeks have elapsed. Mary Jo had some salt water in her lungs, but she didn't drown until her own exhaled CO2 caused her to lose consciousness.
Chao may have been breathing from an air pocket.
From the Tesla Owner's Manual:
How to survive driving your Tesla into deep water.
1. Unbuckle your seat belt.
2. Reach across and open the passenger side door.
3. Draw your knees up to your chest and pivot so your back is against the driver's side door.
4. Use the large muscles of your legs to shove your passenger out of the car.
5. At this point your passenger should become the electrical return path...oh, you'll know.
6. If there's a shark, wait until the shark bites into your passenger and is electrocuted.
7. Now it should be safe for you to emerge from the vehicle and swim to the surface.
How do you go about trying to break the window with the seatbelt?
I think you like, twirl it over your head real fast and then, Whack!
He meant “buckle” not belt.
Ann, you whip the buckle at it (while there is still air in the car)
Althouse writes, "How do you go about trying to break the window with the seatbelt? I can’t picture that."
As noted earlier, modern automotive glass requires a force exceeding 20,000 psi to break. I've heard the argument that the tongue of the seatbelt buckle could be used to apply that force, however, I am extremely skeptical of that claim. A person grasping that buckle can exert no appreciable mechanical advantage. It would be like driving a nail with your fist. A hammer is a tool, but it is also a machine operating on the principle of the lever. It's the mechanical advantage of the increased lever arm of the haft and the application of acceleration applied to the single square inch of the hammer's face that drives the nail.
has Musk been charged yet about this manslaughter by his autonomous vehicle?
need to train EV with Rules for Robots!
“Sheriff’s deputies even stood on top of it during the rescue efforts, trying to bust open a window.”
=================
are they not allowed to discharge weapons at sunken cars? deterred by too much follow on paperwork?
It's always good to have a hammer and a roll of duct tape in the glove box, but if you have a prior record of kidnapping people, maybe get one of those window breaker doohickeys.
This happened a month ago, why is it only news now that Mitch is retiring?
==================
is this = horse head in bed? & that is Cocaine Mitch to you pal
"Donald Trump mused to a group of supporters in the landlocked state of Iowa."
Iowa has no lakes, rivers, or ponds, nor have Iowans ever heard of the ocean. They are such rubes.
EVs hv battery systems are isolated. That is they only have a positive and a negative. The only way for current to flow is through something connected to both the positive and negative. The battery is isolated from the conductive metal parts of the vehicle. The only way for a shock or electrocution if for two (2) faults occur so that a new path to both the positive and negative is created. This later is a concern where there is collision damage. Driving into a lake isn't likely to cause that.
In addition, the HV battery can be electrically isolated manually for service and I suspect if a fault is detected. That means, absent of damage to the battery case, all possible current paths are inside the battery case.
The 12v system in vehicles uses the chassis as the return path to save the weight of wiring for power circuits though signal circuits do have ground wires to maintain integrity of the small signals.
Don't compare these systems to the mains power as that system has grounding electrodes to limit voltages during faults and induced currents. In addition, it is a bonded neutral, which creates the "first" fault so if any other fault happens an overcurrent will clear the fault by popping the breaker instead of having the first fault lie dormant for years maybe until the 2nd occurs creating a hazard and both being nearly impossible to find, especially back when on transformer might feed multiple homes.
As for the shock hazard of faulty mains wiring in the water as shore facilities or a downed power line. Fresh water and the soil are poor conductors so the path from the hot wire to the ground/neutral is across a gradient of voltage differences. If you create an alternate path by having a foot or hand on different voltages, you create a current path that can shock or electrocute.
Lefty Charles: "the ranch manager should have had any number of tools suitable for that purpose, although perhaps not at hand.".
Not true. even if using a ball peen hammer it would be difficult to smash open a car window. Car window smashing tools, which are cheap and easy to purchase, have a pointed end which concentrates the force in order to shatter the tempered glass. most tools do not have this feature. My wife tried to save a guy in his car once and other people who were there had all manner of tools attempting to break open the glass. None worked until a cop showed up with a car window shattering tool.
Those windows are designed to save you from flying highway debris. Get a tool for your car.
David said the Chinese did it. I don't know if he was serious or tongue in cheek but it is certainly feasible from an engineering standpoint.
As I understand the tesla, everything is electronic by wire. (someone clarify if I am wrong) When you move the lever from forward to reverse The motor polarity is changed by the cars computer. Ditto the go and stop pedals.
Ditto pretty much everthing else in the car.
Correct?
If these functions can be controlled by programatic inputs from within the car, they can theoretically be controlled from outside the car. Think of how a service tech can full control of your pc, with your permission, to rummage around and repair problems.
There should be strong protection against this but no protection is analysis, no matter how good. And the tesla basically won't operate without being connected to the cloud.
So absolutely possible, at least theoretically.
That may be why the sheriff (?) has opened a criminal investigation. They've announced they opened it, I don't think they've said why.
John Henry
Mary Jo Kopechne, abandoned by Ted Kennedy, lived for hours in that sunken overturned '67 Oldsmobile breathing from an air pocket in the passenger-side footwell.
Exactly who I was thinking about as I read all of the comments.
'Get a tool for your car.'
Does this mean all liberals are automatically safe?
10-15 years ago I attended a trade show (imts) where they demoted several electric vehicles including a few sold driving 4 passenger bubbles for city taxis.
All, self and non-self driving cars has a "Emergency Stop" button prominently mounted. An e-stop is required on machinery and there are very specific legal requirements. Mainly that when pressed it kills all electric power and keeps it killed until physically reset.
It also must be electromechanical, not programmatic.
It looked kind of put off place in an otherwise futuristic dash. I asked and was told that nhtsa required it on any electric car.
Apparently not any more. It might have saved Chao's life. The guy who could not stop his E-Jag in England last week would have liked one to, I'll bet.
To see what an estop looks like, see the picture of Hillary giving one to Putin.
John Henry
What a ghastly way to die.
"Donald Trump mused to a group of supporters in the landlocked state of Iowa."
I trust the Post far more than the Times, at least the Post's misreports derive from ignorance rather than malice. However, it seems the Post's editors are as unversed in geography as any NYT hack.
Believe it or not, assuming your vessel has sufficient fuel for the voyage, it is possible to take a boat trip from Des Moines to Honolulu and never touch land between those two capital cities.
The Chao family is very well connected. The grandfather was right with Chiang Kai she and the koumintang.
The shipping company is also rumored to have Cia ties.
So David might be right to suspect the Chinese. But they may not be the only suspects.
It is not impossible that they fell foul of the Taiwanese govt. Or a Chinese tong.
Or maybe it was just a tragic accident. It could happen.
John Henry
There’s a video on YouTube which makes this point: if your car enters the water, do not call 911. You don’t have enough time to do that. Immediately try to open the window or break the window. Everything happens very quickly.
I still don't understand the seatbelt method.
"Ann, you whip the buckle at it...." I can't picture that working.
We do have the standard window-breaking tool and have kept that in all our cars for many years.
Important to remember where you keep it. I recommend keeping it right on that door (where there is usually some netting to hold it in place). The thing is bright orange, so... easy to see in a murky swamp.
I don't know if this applies to this car specifically. And might not matter if it did given the gentleness of the accident.
Tesla has started building cars with die cast frames instead of frames riveted from stampings. Mattel hot wheels cars are die cast too.
It is an interesting technology with a lot of benefits. See this YouTube https://youtu.be/fydlvpDZrAw?si=eTdRvWDCw98gxYkY
A downside to a cast frame is that castings by nature are more brittle. They will break rather than bend.
I don't know how this affects battery protection in a crash but my feeling is it would lessen it.
John Henry
@LakeLevel You must forgive Left Bank of the Charles for his shallow knowledge regarding hammers. Tools are for the working class. In the Cambridge/Back Bay area there's always a mouth-breathing Trump supporter available to do anything that needs doing for a nominal fee, consequently, in Lefty's case, the tool and the hand have just a nodding acquaintance. Or, as we knuckle-dragging Neanderthals put it, he lacks practical experience.
Electrocution...?
As to the threat of being electrocuted, in this instance: "Her friends immediately ran to help and one woman jumped in the pond"
And there is no report of that friend being electrocuted. At some point, seemingly subsequent, EMS had divers in the water.
Slow vs fast...?
The NY Post report indicates Ms. Chao "spent her last minutes alive frantically calling her friends for help as her Tesla SLOWLY sank in a pond"
But the same NY Post report indicates "the car went over an embankment and into a pond — and was sinking FAST."
The basis for the NY Post report, which is the WSJ, never indicates that the car sank "slowly."
Ms. Chao left the guest house around 11:30 to go to the main house a four minute drive. But the 911 call apparently wasn't made until 12:04, not by Ms. Chao (who did call friends), but by the property's ranch manager.
When "Blanco County emergency units finally arrived at 12:28 a.m.", the car was fully submerged.
As to the use of "finally," it is a huge ranch, and the terrain required a number of responders to get out of their cars and walk to the scene.
According to the WSJ: "The local EMS station has one ambulance to cover 7,000 people spread out over 200 square miles. Properties more than two miles away from the station are generally given the weakest insurance safety rating of 10 based on how quickly help can arrive. The ranch [itself, let alone the accident location] is twelve miles from the station."
Alcohol...?
"After eating dinner together and celebrating the Chinese New Year on Friday night, Chao left the guesthouse around 11:30 p.m. to head back to the main house, where her son was sleeping. It was cold out, so she decided to take her Tesla Model X SUV for the four-minute drive rather than walk."
No autopsy was performed.
Once again proving Norm's theory...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JVkQxtFtRo
Crank/manual windows...
WSJ: "A driver has about one minute to get out of a car sinking into water. When vehicles were made with more manual mechanics, a driver could crank down the window to get out, though it would still require a clarity of mind often elusive in an emergency. In newer cars, like the Tesla Model X vehicle, the driver might have seconds to push the button to roll the window down before the water level rises too high. After that, the only mode of exit would be by breaking it, say auto safety experts.
That is terribly difficult underwater and can be even more so when trying to bash through tempered glass or sturdier laminated glass, which most car companies use today. Those are the two types of glass that Tesla may have used in its 2020 Model X, according to company documents. Laminated glass, in particular, is lauded for its safety qualities, such as preventing a driver from being ejected during a crash; however it is nearly impossible to break underwater, according to testing done by the American Automobile Association."
https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-jeep-wrangler-sport-and-gladiator-sport-still-have-crank-windows
Not a typical Accident...?
Bottom line is that Dick Cheney does have a record of physically harming rich Republicans at Texas ranches.
TreeJoe said...
If she was a billionaire I wonder if she had bullet resistant glass installed.
Pssst... Wanna buy a bulletproof Tesla X?
https://armormax.com/armored-cars/brand/tesla/
Supposedly, if you take the headrest out of the seat, you can use the metal rods to break the window. I supposed it would still need some amount of strength. And I’ve never tested this myself.
“Not true. even if using a ball peen hammer it would be difficult to smash open a car window”
A ball peen hammer wouldn’t be my first choice. I would first go for an axe or try striking the window with the pointed side of a pair of pinchers. I would think that if you had a ball peen hammer and a nail, you could put the pointed end of the nail against the window and strike the other end with the ball peen hammer.
What I am having trouble with is the idea that a couple of deputies standing on the roof of the car couldn’t break a window. Presumably they would have had the special tool for doing that. I carry one in my own car.
"The thing is bright orange, so... easy to see in a murky swamp."
Or just don't drive in Washington DC...
The popular press always gets airplane crashes wrong ... because they don't know much about aviation.
Now the popular press is getting electric cars wrong ... because they don't know much about electric cars.
Is there anything that the popular press gets right? Sports?
I used to have one of those window-breaking hammers in the glove compartment. I wonder if it still there.
I generally have a lot of tools and stuff in my car. Also golf clubs. I'm guessing that a 9-iron would do the trick.
What a bizarre thing to happen. You are a billionaire. On your own driveway in the middle of Texas. Surrounded by your friends and employees. In one of the safest cars in the world.
And you drown in a little pond because you hit reverse instead of forward.
When your number is up, it's up.
Just stupid rich drunk people in cars... driving into a pond...
As for EVs... being electrocuted is just one of the worries... the batteries could explode to.
"Do electric cars threaten electrocution when submerged?"
No, they don't. Electricity will always follow the path of least resistance and unless you are actually touching the electrical connections of the car, you are not the path of least resistance. Remember, an electric vehicle is not grounded; it is a closed loop system. Its tires are insulators. The reason that people get electrocuted with 120V alternating current is that the neutral is usually tied to the ground. Because of that they can become a part of the path to ground if they are in the water. (Which is usually grounded...to the ground....hence, the word, "ground.")
mtp said...
"Dumbed down answer to Alhouse's question.
Electricity is trying to get from the hot side of the battery to the cold side, or to (literally) the earth"
That's wrong. The negative terminal in a car is not tied to an earth ground. If the vehicle flooded, the shortest path in the water would be between the electrical terminals, not to the earth.
"Will you get electrocuted by an electric car in water?"
I don't know, why don't you reach in first and let us know how it worked out?
I accidentally shattered my car window by gripping the edge with vice grips when it wouldn't roll up. Not very helpful if the window is up, but it takes a hard impact by a metal point.
loudblog,
I never said the negative is tied to earth.
Electricity will flow from the hot to earth, as long as there is a potential.
I just now checked from the hot of AAA battery to earth, it was about half the battery voltage, which was what I expected. I checked it for a motorcycle battery, there was none, which I did not expect. The mental model I have of a battery is a charged capacitor, but that is clearly wrong for a lead acid battery.
Unasked for advice.
Get yourself something called an "automatic center punch". They normally used for making little divots in metal for a drill to follow. It's a spring loaded device with a sharp point. Just put the tip against the glass and push. The glass will shatter. You can get one chaeaply at Harbor Freight.
My greatest fear in a submerged car is as the inside floods I won't have enough force due to water resistnace. This tool eliminates that.
Rusty said...Get yourself something called an "automatic center punch".
I agree. Definitely worth keeping somewhere in your vehicle where you will be able to find it in the dark.
I've lived in my current town for around twenty-five years. In that time, there have been there have been several drownings and near drownings at two locations where the road dips under railroad trestles. Both sites are well lit and have numerous signs warning of the potential hazard, but if you drive through on a dry day, most people would never that the spots could be dangerous, even in a heavy storm.
As the Boy Scouts say, "Be prepared!"
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