"But just as politically correct comedians trade on stories of their own oppression, anti-woke comedians now delight in referencing their own cancellations — Gervais and Chappelle’s shows are full of tales about people who have attacked them on the internet and in real life.... The outrage of woke comedians at the immorality of their enemies is echoed by the ceaseless outrage of anti-woke comedians at the absurdity and stupidity of their enemies. Comedy should offend. Comedians should speak freely.... But offensiveness is not synonymous with wit. And the best comedy is anarchic, not partisan. Surprising, not predictable. The antidote to an age of political polarisation and outrage is not more of the same. That men as talented as Chappelle and Gervais have succumbed to the temptation is a testament to just how powerful those forces are."
Writes James Marriott, in
"Sorry, anti-woke comedians, the joke is on you/The problem with Ricky Gervais is not that he’s outrageous, it’s that he’s not outrageous enough" (London Times).
Yes, having watched the new Netflix shows from Ricky Gervais and Dave Chappelle, I think this criticism is apt.
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34 comments:
Anti-woke jokes are jokes about women.
Gervais is a victim of his own success. His most recent Netflix seemed pretty stale and predictable to me. When the laughter turns into claphter, you're done for.
Hit a paywall. I actually would love to read the article but my usual "block scripts" trick using a Brave browser doesn't work. The text ends after this:
"The problem is well illustrated by Ricky Gervais’s new Netflix show Armageddon, advertised as featuring “controversial takes on political correctness and oversensitivity”. What it turns out to offer is such kindergarten-standard material as the observation"
I'm curious to know what the criticism is and why you think it's apt.
Does anyone remember George Carlin and Lenny Bruce?
What would they be thinking today?
"The problem with Ricky Gervais is not that he’s outrageous, it’s that he’s not outrageous enough"
What a silly thing to write on the same day Ricky's 2020 Golden Globes bit on Hollywood and Epstein proved to be an expose'. Has anyone else come even close to that, when it comes to truth-telling in America? No. This is a nation still talking about Monica, while hiding their eyes from the three Clinton rape victims out there. That's how "honest" the world of non-stand-ups are are.
Ricky ain't like any of them.
I'm as anti-woke as the next guy, but I tend to agree that Chappelle isn't very funny doing what he's doing now.
There seems to be a trend where comedians have simply become monologists. It's as if they're not really trying to get laughs but instead are just trying to get the audience's approval by coming across as reasonable, astute, and likeable.
It might be fair criticism; not having seen these most recent efforts, I couldn't say whether they're true or not. I know that, in the past, I've found Gervais' needling to be unfunny at times. He seemed to be at his best when the sharp edge of his tongue was being turned against the glitterati, not the underdogs. But: Is it a lack of courage, or just poor material? I don't think that either one of them is scared of their critics.
So, that's not funny?
Why should only comedy offend? Why shouldn't essayist, political philosphers, bloggers, plumbers, pretty much everybody offend? What is so magic about comedians?
Also, why single out Gervais and Chappelle when a huge amount of comedians went in the other direction, becoming unfunny puritanical scolds?
Comedy is not universal. You find your audience. Some have very large audiences and some have small audiences. Some try to appeal to as many groups as possible and some are more focused. There is no incorrect way to do comedy, other than someone has to find you funny. Or, I suppose, relying on it as your sole source of income and starving to death as a result.
I am not interested in the Comedy Police. Unless it is Frank Drebin.
Chapelle's anecdotes sound ike the refinement of actual interactions with people, perhaps distilled down to an essence, but genuine. Gervais is the court jester who can get a laugh among elites for any outrage committed by the nobility, thereby diminishing the outrage itself to a mere item to chuckle over.
Gervais is a litte about rage as comedy, but that hasn't that been the function of art specially in the last hundred years, some things are too sacred to be funny, is that the problem
I remember Dave Allen the Irish recontour, who made fun of everything
Shorter James Marriott: "That's Not Funny!"
Here's a Norm McDonald anti-woke joke. Somebody said to Norm that when it came to Bill Cosby, "The hypocrisy was the worst part." Norm said, "I think the worst part was the raping. Then there was the drugging and then probably the scheming. The hypocrisy was maybe on page 4." Run that joke through the Marriott Test. Offensive? Not really. Surprising? Not really. Unpredictable? Nope, the punchline is completely predictable. That's what's funny about it. Woke people say stupid things. Like, "It's White supremacy to be punctual or to say 'the written word. To say out loud what most of us are thinking -- which is, "That's stupid!" -- is funny.
"Comedians should speak freely"
Should they, now.
"And the best comedy is anarchic, not partisan. Surprising, not predictable."
Ah, is that so.
"That men as talented as Chappelle and Gervais have succumbed to the temptation is a testament to just how powerful those forces are."
Yes, the criticism is apt. Truly making fun of woke shibboleths, in a way that fundamentally challenges the entire ideology, not just to bitch about cancellations and "free speech," is still very dangerous.
Here's one for SNL.
President Biden getting whacked in the nuts.
By former president Barak Obama
Does anyone remember George Carlin and Lenny Bruce
Carlin was a lapdog of the liberal/left. He made fun of...wait for it...Christians and Catholics. And....wait for it...Republicans. Wow, thats "edgy". Today he'd be making fun of Christians, Catholics, and Republicans.
Bruce was a leftist. He was for free speech and breaking norms, because the norms were then conservative.
As for Gervais and Chappelle, you can only be outrageous to a certain degree when you appear on Netflicks or HBO. Anyone too honest, never gets on the air.
Does anyone remember George Carlin and Lenny Bruce
Carlin was a lapdog of the liberal/left. He made fun of...wait for it...Christians and Catholics. And....wait for it...Republicans. Wow, thats "edgy". Today he'd be making fun of Christians, Catholics, and Republicans.
Bruce was a leftist. He was for free speech and breaking norms, because the norms were then conservative.
As for Gervais and Chappelle, you can only be outrageous to a certain degree when you appear on Netflicks or HBO. Anyone too honest, never gets on the air.
The thing about Dave Chappelle is that he can make a grocery shopping list funny. Even when he’s telling a joke that I disagree with, or even hate, I still have to appreciate the way he delivers it.
Not long ago these people were knocking Chappelle and Gervais for going too far.
Agree totally with rcocea.
Apt, i.e., you agree with the worst. Another victim of the woke mind virus. Making smart people crazy for 15 years now. And counting.
Have you listened to a late Lenny Bruce show? The constant attacks got to him. He started reading trial transcripts during the show. I think something similar may be happening to current anti establishment comics.
I saw Chappelle's Dreamer, and I laughed. I wasn't sorry I spent the time to watch it. Is it his best work? Probably not. But I don't see how it could have been still more outrageous. It ended on a somber note, but it was not false. One viewer's opinion.
Ricky Gervais defines 'fascism,' and defenders of Zionism are NOT going to like it.
I never found Chapelle all that funny. I just often agreed with him.
Gervais is very funny. I haven’t seen his latest special, but in the past he was brilliant at skewering people who desperately needed to be skewered. Maybe this time the criticism is accurate, but since it’s the same thing they’ve been saying about him all along, I’ll go with the broken clock theory.
I couldn't read the entire article because of the paywall, and so maybe my take on the posted blurb is wrong... but it seems like the author is acknowledging that political polarization is bad, but saying that it is tacky when comedians who disagree with him approach that subject in their acts. All comedians discuss these topics, but it is gauche when "anti-woke" comedians do it. That seems self-serving.
I think art is subjective, including comedy. There isn't any one prescription for what makes a comedian funny, and different people are going to find different things to laugh about. I think what Chappelle and Gervais have done is find an underserved market in comedy. But I don't think what they are doing is cynical, it seems honest to me.
Ricky Gervais is funny and smart - and quick, too.
Comedians, like musicians, tend to be their best when they are on the come up. Then they become so successful and famous they don't relate anymore to the everyday experience of people and their "art" suffers. Chappelle's latest special wasn't as funny as his earlier work, but he made good points and I chuckled and nodded my head a bunch.
There are a bunch of comedians on the tier below that of Chappelle and Gervais that are doing "trans jokes" that are hilarious and skewer both the woke and the anti-woke.
The anti-woke could be a bit funnier if they got off the anti-woke schtick. The thing is that the woke could be much, much funnier if they got off the woke schtick. It would be much, much, much funnier, but on average, woke comedians are less talented or original than anti-woke comedians.
tim maguire said...
"I never found Chapelle all that funny. I just often agreed with him."
Now go watch some Kat Williams. Or Brad Williams for a contrast.
Saw both specials. I laughed ... a lot. Sure the rapid fire jokes style was not used, but the timing of these two as the punchline hit was brlliant.
What most people forget is that, if they must be labeled, BOTH of these guys are liberals.
They just don't let the left dictate what they find funny.
I think the key is that comedy should be subversive. A joke subverts expectations. Comedians subvert societal expectations. Comedy shouldn’t aim to be offensive for the sake of being offensive… but if someone gets offended, that
Is just collateral damage.
I don’t think there is anything subversive about toeing the party line, and “woke” is the most dominant political messaging of our time. It seems natural that comedians would try to subvert it. There is nothing at all funny about late-night talk show hosts telling people how to vote, or parroting some political narrative. Challenging the dominant narrative is where humor is found.
The outrage of woke comedians at the immorality of their enemies is echoed by the ceaseless outrage of anti-woke comedians at the absurdity and stupidity of their enemies.
Bullshit.
The first are religious scolds shouting "that's not funny!!11!"
The second are doing what good comedians always have done: mocking "absurdity and stupidity".
That this numbnuts can't see a difference there just tells us he's one of the religious zealots
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