From "Lionel Dahmer, Who Agonized About Raising a Serial Killer, Dies at 87/The father of Jeffrey Dahmer, he wrote a memoir that one reviewer said sought to 'peer not just into the soul of his son but into his own'" (NYT).
From the Will Self review of the memoir:
Throughout, the sense of someone constitutionally ill-equipped for introspection of any kind groping toward a vile realization is gripping. Lionel Dahmer comes across -- as he presumably intends to -- as an emotionally and spiritually absent parent. A chemist who describes his emotional makeup as "a broad, flat plain," he buried himself in the laboratory where "the ironclad laws of science governed," rather than face up to the "chaotic" world of human relationships and to the impact that his disintegrating marriage to a seriously depressed woman was having on his younger son....
Lionel Dahmer writes about a recurrent dream in which he is aware of having committed a violent murder but with no knowledge of why, and then identifies it as a wellspring of homicidal intent that he shares with his son. I have such a recurrent dream, and I would wager that many reading this do as well. "I see and hear my son," he writes at another point, "and I think, 'Am I like that?' " I can think of no better place to begin the much-needed examination of the dark side of our natures than with a careful reading of these two remarkable books.
I considered eliding the sentence "I have such a recurrent dream, and I would wager that many reading this do as well." It's a big distraction, but maybe it's the most interesting thing here. What if your son became a serial murder, would you, peering into your soul, see a wellspring of homicidal intent?
पोस्ट्स
३४ टिप्पण्या:
" I have such a recurrent dream, and I would wager that many reading this do as well."
This is like NewAgers claiming everybody's "spiritual" - nope, sorry: that's just you, Buddy. I got nothin' to do with it.
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has a minor character plagued by visions of horrific violence. It's explained that, unbeknownst to him, he is a direct descendent of Ghengis Khan.
I don't have dreams of having committed violence, but all men, and probably most or all women, have violent passions that we try not to dwell on for fear that doing so would make us more likely we would act on. It's because we are animals who spent many millions of years killing so that we are not killed. Our survival instincts are tightly bound up in raw bare-handed violence.
Anyone up for some BBQ?
Flank steak or tenderloin…
I guess that if we take credit for our offspring's successes then we must also take credit for their failures. But it is the rare case where one of us is solely responsible for either.
We are social animals.
So sorry to hear of Andre Braugher’s passing. A wonderful actor who unfortunately had a lack of roles early in his career whilr fighting not to be typecast later in life…
I thought I’d stumbled onto a human body part in my next door neighbor’s chest freezer one time. I even called the cops, but it turned out to be a radiator hose from a ‘76 Chevy Malibu.
My spouse, a pediatrician, watches murder and crime shows as her preferred entertainment, after perhaps Jim Cramer. She says the stories describing the murderers, the rapists, the thieves, the cruel abusers and vile con artists give her an insight into dealing with her patients and understanding their parents' psychology that she doesn't get anywhere else.
That gave me an insight into pediatrics that I never would have had, and I still don't want.
A parents worst nightmare.
It's impossible not to retrospectively look back on how you raised your children and not wonder what you could have done better, moments in time when you lost patience, ignored or minimized a problem they were having, or taken the time to let them know how much you love them. Even with children that are successful and happy you wonder what you could have done to make their adult life better. I can't even imagine what it would feel like to carry the guilt of having a child that turns out to be a monster.
That's called peer review.
Sometimes parental love conquers all. Take the case of Joe Biden. Do you think that he sometimes looks into the sleazy soul of his son, Hunter, and wonders if it is in some way reflective of his own. Not a chance. Joe Biden is inordinately proud of Hunter and all that he has managed to achieve. If Hunter should take up murdering teen age hookers, Joe would still be proud of the boy. We should all be blessed with such a father.
"Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has a minor character plagued by visions of horrific violence. It's explained that, unbeknownst to him, he is a direct descendent of Ghengis Khan"
Does anyone still remember the novel "The White Hotel"? (Link goes to Wikipedia, where there is a plot summary/big spoiler)
"A number of efforts have been made to make the novel into a film, which some have described as unfilmable[7] or unadaptable. These have included attempts by Bernardo Bertolucci with Barbra Streisand, by David Lynch with Isabella Rossellini, by Simon Monjack with Brittany Murphy, and by Emir Kusturica with Nicole Kidman."
Parents get too much credit and too much of the blame. I think we are hard wired to at least 80% of our make up and that our upbringing can influence but not change our essential natures. While virtually everyone might be capable of killing in the right (or wrong) circumstances, the number of socio or psychopaths among us who become serial killers are vanishingly small.
I know many good people whose children have fallen short of their parents accomplishment and character, and man of those parents agonize over what they have done wrong. I always tell them what I said in the first clause above. In fact, sometimes I think their efforts at upbringing have kept their children from an ever greater tumble.
Short take, serial killers are born not made.
From "Lionel Dahmer, Who Agonized About Raising a Serial Killer, Dies at 87
"Hey Grandpa, what's for supper?"
Sorry, but the hed reminded me of Woody Allen’s being kicked out of school for cheating on his metaphysics final by peering into the soul of the boy next to him.
How nice of NYT to do an obit to Jeffrey Dahmer’s dad.
I read "The White Hotel" a long time ago- nearly 40 years now. My mother got the book, I think, from her book club when I was in high school. I don't really remember much about it, though- only that Sigmund Freud was one of the characters.
So he was groping and gripping? Hmmm... There's a song in there!
I couldn't sleep at all last night..
A leftist would just blame society.
After all, dads are not important to the raising of children.
Jeffrey invited me to lunch one time,but when I got there, all I got was a cold shoulder.
Groan
"Short take, serial killers are born not made."
That's rather glib. We are each born with a unique nervous system and brainstew of predilections, talents, fears, hopes, desires, etc....yes.
However, do not assume that the manner (and environment) in which one is reared does not or cannot fan the flame of certain aspects within us or dampen aspects within us.
The truer answer is we really don't know with certainty. Killers may and sometimes are born (or made), but we do not understand the variables well enough to be certain who will grow up to become a killer.
First, I assume but did not check if the Times did an obituary of any of his victims, let alone all of them, or just the most multiculturally compelling to distract from the gay theme.
Second, the Times gave multiple terrorists, serial killers, bombers, and cop-killers the opportunity to plead the case for their rehabilitation in their pages over the last five decades and have advocated for them in court as well, actively helping free several.
Third, the Times has viciously mis-reported multiple cases of rape-murder to garner sympathy for the rapist-murdered himself, especially but hardly exclusively Winston Moseley, to whom they dedicated an entire editorial page AFTER he killed several women including Kitty Genovese, escaped from prison, and tortured and raped other victims. Other significant, sadistic newspaper advocacy includes Benjamin LaGuer in Boston.
Fourth, the Times has systematically mispreresented the prevalence of minority and gay male serial killers for decades, thus re-victimizing their victims, who frequently include a majority minority and gay victims themselves. Looking for Mr. Goodbar? Don't.
Fifth, the only response from relatives of this sort of animal should be lifetime shame and silence. If he wants to help law authority profilers, he can do that without writing a book.
Its sad when your son grows up to be a Pedophile, Serial Killer, or Liberal Democrat. But its absurd to blame yourself. Its partly enviroment, but its mostly genetic. I suppose if Dahmer had grown up in a household with corpses in the basement, that would be different.
If have a million people, one of them will probably be a potential serial killer, with all kinds of pathologies. X percent of the population will be freaks and weirdos and something wrong with their brain or soul.
Its amazing there are so few of them.
The actor (Richard Jenkins) who played him on the Netflix series was fantastic...really good, as was the entire production.
Highly recommended.
The gore is mostly implied but the atmosphere is super creepy...
I'm assuming he spent his entire life wondering if it was something he did...maybe even down to one specific incident that could have set his son on his path.
The guilt must have been overwhelming...
'My spouse, a pediatrician, watches murder and crime shows as her preferred entertainment, after perhaps Jim Cramer.'
So you're telling us you're bankrupt?
I have a recurring dream where I’m a lion tamer. In the dream I don’t know why I do it. Thank God I didn’t sire a cat person.
Yes, "The White Hotel", a terrifying and moving book.
Short take, serial killers are born not made.
Perhaps but you definitely won’t make a really really great serial killer by breeding two serial killers together. That’s where everyone gets it wrong…
'Short take, serial killers are born not made.'
I was so hungry once that I polished off an entire box of Cap'n Crunch in one sitting...
Joe Smith: The entertainment value of Jim Cramer is not to be underestimated, but I agree one should not look to his show for financial advice, unless maybe you go contrarian. That he ignores shorting is unforgivable in a stock market adviser. I added him in because my wife does watch him, and for the same reason she watches the shows about serial killers. Her analyses of what CEOs say on Cramer is spot on, and no doubt influenced by what she learned from the murder shows about sociopaths.
Mental illness can sprout in anyone. Chemicals, not upbringing, is what counts. This is like feeling guilt over a tornado.
Serial killers are both born and made. Many of them are groomed young. Many are influenced by peers. Many just decide to become politicians instead.
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