Said John McWhorter, in a discussion with with Glenn Loury, quoted at Loury's Substack, under the provocative title, "Derek Chauvin Did Not Murder George Floyd."
"Now, the issue is not the morality of him being high, but he was saying, 'I can't breathe' long before anybody had him on the ground.... What a lot of people are going to say is, 'Look at the agony of his face in the standard photo. It looks like he can't breathe. He's in agony.' That grimace that we see is something that does move you. But if you look at the body cam footage we've never seen, George Floyd had that exact same look on his face when the cops just approached his car and said, 'Get out.' He was really messed up that night. I'm not moralizing. Just because I'm wearing a cardigan doesn't mean that I don't understand the joy of drugs and liquor, but he was majorly fucked up."
You can watch the dialogue at YouTube, here, but YouTube won't let me embed it, because YouTube has decided, as Loury puts it, "Unless you’re 18 or older and logged into your YouTube account, you won’t be able to view it."
Loury and McWhorter are talking about the documentary "The Fall of Minneapolis," which you can watch in full, at its own website, here.
CORRECTION: I originally had the quote attributed to Loury. It's McWhorter.
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130 comments:
---the provocative title, "Derek Chauvin Did Not Murder George Floyd."
This is not provocative to those who paid attention. It was widely known that he had a lethal dose of drugs in him and all his physical symptoms matched that reality. That title is provocative only to those who swallowed the emotional propaganda of the professional victims like BLM, people who were working purely to obtain more financial and political benefits for themselves.
Maybe the rest of the country -- the low-information Democrats -- is finally starting to notice.
But the narrative....
We can't allow this. Otherwise the nationwide looting, burning and killing....
And what about the statues of Saint Floyd.
Won't anyone weep for the narrative?
Chauvin and the other cops were all railroaded.
The jury, judge and appellate court all knew that if they didn’t find the cops guilty, their houses would be burned down and they would get physically attacked. The appellate lawyer said it best, “The jury had a personal stake in the case.”
The case should have been tried in Duluth. In the winter.
SCOTUS rejected cert. Shameful.
The film is great. One of the other cops talks about his prison experience. Worth hearing.
Two or three times as many whites are killed by blacks as blacks killed by whites in the US.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers
This, despite the white population being much larger than the black population. The violence-by-race difference is news only to those who are willfully blind or bound by a utopian ideology. High rates of black violence occur outside the US and outside countries with any white presence, and has continued over decades. Telling yourself anything else is living in a defensive delusion. The ambiguous-at-best death of George Floyd fed the revolutionary wishes and dreams of those who couldn't deal with these longstanding facts.
Violence rates will not improve unless the "root causes" are confronted head on.
Yes, we are beyound the looking glass. Where words mean exactly what I say the mean, no more, no less.
Provocative? If by provocative, you mean strictly adhering to the facts . . . I guess some would use that word.
The Trial was as good as any tin pot dictator in any banana republic could manage on her best day.
The man had enough drugs in him to kill him. AND THE DRUGS DID kill him.
Prosucuters and the Judge, choreographed a human sacrifice to avoid an apocalyptic response by BLACKS
I highly recommend watching this movie. There are number of significant things that just did not come out in the media coverage.
For example, one of the factors in the bad outcome for Floyd was the mix up and resulting delay of the ambulance, which the cops had radioed for only 36 seconds after Floyd was on the ground. The firemen/paramedics station was only a few blocks away, but they went to the wrong location. Considering how much fentanyl Floyd swallowed, they might not have been able to save him even if they'd gotten there sooner, but we'll never know.
In another encounter with police a year before, Floyd had also swallowed his whole stash, but that time he told the officer what he'd done and they were able to get him medical help and save him. Unfortunately, in his last encounter, he didn't tell the cops he'd eaten his stash. If he had, he might still be alive.
There's a lot more.
SCOTUS rejected cert. Shameful.
My not an attorney eye has always viewed the courts as protecting the process and never having much interest at reversing when juries just get it wrong. Especially so for SCOTUS, no?
Youtube says, in a transparent effort to keep people from looking at this video:
"The following content may contain graphic or violent imagery
Viewer discretion is advised"
But that is a lie. There's nothing there except Glenn Loury and John McWhorter talking to each other, about a documentary on the George Floyd situation. No violence, no graphic imagery, whatsoever.
How long can this country survive having a mainstream media that constantly lies to you, and always in favor of the lefty narrative?
Chauvin was lynched, plain and simple.
If you think we are too civilized to carry out public human sacrifices for our cherished beliefs, think again.
"George Floyd was saying 'I can't breathe' when he was standing up straight and just being coaxed to get into the car. What they were trying to do was take him somewhere to get treatment,..."
Instead of bringing treatment to him? I mean, he can't breathe - then, there, where he was found - so why not call for an ambulance? Would they have done so for Tom Petty, or Prince?
I'll watch the doc with those (obvious) thoughts in mind.
I'm watching the doc, and it opens with a clearly bad arrest. The cop has his gun drawn before he even knows the situation. Floyd is talking and acting like a slave, crying and addressing the cop with "Please, Mr. Officer" and repeatedly begging not to be shot. It's hard to watch, or accept that's the reality of America. So much so, I needed a break, and I'm just 6 minutes into it.
This is a hard place to be proud of.
I'm 9 minutes in, and I don't like anything about this arrest. Why's a "fake bill" worthy of a gun being pulled? Why must Floyd be put in a squad car, confinement, when he's obviously terrified and being no problem - submissive even - sitting on the street?
"Instead of bringing treatment to him? I mean, he can't breathe - then, there, where he was found - so why not call for an ambulance?"
They did call for an ambulance.
Part of the problem is having a variably educated jury being asked to determine the effect of complex human physiological problems for which they have no training or education. I have heard cynics say that regarding jurors, "the dumber the better". Put that together with a baying mob outside the courthouse and the verdict reached can be a slam dunk. Such was that travesty of a trial. A passive judge, an overwhelmed defense attorney, professional litigators from DC for the prosecution, and extreme political pressure produced a very sick verdict.
If Chauvin can live long enough, he will be compensated for the travesty. Glenn and especially John help break the wall that is keeping the charade going.
But I don't think the money can make up for what happened.
"I'm watching the doc, and it opens with a clearly bad arrest. The cop has his gun drawn before he even knows the situation. Floyd is talking and acting like a slave, crying and addressing the cop with "Please, Mr. Officer" and repeatedly begging not to be shot. It's hard to watch, or accept that's the reality of America. So much so, I needed a break, and I'm just 6 minutes into it."
I agree that he's manifesting fear and that it's disturbing to watch. I've never watched the death scene that everyone else seems to have watched (because I think it's wrong to watch someone die).
The question is what they should have done. It wouldn't be just letting people go if they show fear and act out physically. I got the impression the on-screen captions reflected a theory that he was faking fear. That coincides with your use of the word "acting."
That was obvious from the start, how anybody was convinced otherwise is a mystery.
The point of knee on the neck is that it produces NO FORCE. You're locking your bones in place so that if the guy tries to get up, he has to lift your entire weight, but until then it's only your knee resting lightly on him.
It's like working lying under a car. There's no problem unless you try to get up.
"Why's a "fake bill" worthy of a gun being pulled?"
It's not the fake bill but the behavior in the car and the resisting. There's destruction of drug evidence going on (according to the movie).
As for the "fake bill," should the police just not respond to a crime like that? I know there's a lot of refusal these days to enforce laws that protect shopkeepers. Do you think that people who run stores need to accept theft and cheating or find a way to protect themselves?
Crack is willing to watch this movie even though it's difficult to do so and even though it challenges some strongly held opinions he holds.
Be like Crack.
If you can stand up and talk, you can breathe. You need breath to talk,
Thank you for posting the link to the discussion between Glenn Loury and John McWhorter. It was very enlightening and educational. Even though I have known most of the contradictory info to "the narrative" about George Floyd's death for a while now, it is valuable to hear such rational black men affirm the truth. What a tragedy for our country that after the triumph of electing and reelecting Barack Obama, race hustling is a bigger industry than ever.
Let's FACE FACTS!
Chauvin was white.. Does anyone even TRY to deny it? By DEFINITION; that means he IS GUILTY!
Floyd was Black.. Does anyone even TRY to deny it? By DEFINITION; that means he IS INNOCENT!
THESE ARE THE FACTS!
“There was no evidence of asphyxiation of any kind” - John McWhorter
The one where Ann wrestles with a pig...
'As for the "fake bill," should the police just not respond to a crime like that?'
I know someone who, decades ago, ran photocopied bills through an old-school drawer bill changer (she said a small percentage of them would take a photocopied bill, presumably due to a defect in the machine). The mistake they made was in returning to the same changer some days later. The Secret Service was waiting. Of course, that was 35 years ago, back when laws were enforced.
The prosecutors, judge, jury, and appellate court caved in to a lynch mob. We haven’t come very far since Southern sheriffs opened the doors to their jails when lynch mobs showed up for young black men arrested for crimes.
The details didnt matter, susan rosenberg the white maoist behind so called blm just needed a spark to burn the whole thing down
@Althouse: "As for the "fake bill," should the police just not respond to a crime like that? I know there's a lot of refusal these days to enforce laws that protect shopkeepers. Do you think that people who run stores need to accept theft and cheating or find a way to protect themselves?"
At least until 2020, police were routinely taught to (1) control the situation, and (2) respond with appropriate force to protect their own lives, the lives of the innocent, and do what was needed to achieve control over the situation.
Police can and will shoot children/teenagers who point real guns at them. Because of this, some decades ago realistic toy guns disappeared from stores and were replaced by toys with orange-tipped barrels to avoid unneeded killings. [But today, guns come in pink, orange, green, purple, and many other colors. Gun "diversity" is diversity too...]
George Floyd reflects a largely by-the-books arrest of a known local issue-person and drug user. I see this case as mostly following from the disorientation and tensions of the early COVID era. Plenty of drunk and drugged out white guys get taken down hard by the police too.
This might be worth watching to get some idea of what actually took place. It does remind you of just how awful and feckless are the Mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Frey, and the Governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz . These two men are bottom of the barrel 'leaders'. Terrible. And yet, the Democratic machine keeps them in office.
The Fall of Minneapolis.
Ann Althouse said...
"It's not the fake bill but the behavior in the car and the resisting."
I don't see "resisting" but someone being overwhelmed with emotion.
"There's destruction of drug evidence going on (according to the movie)."
I haven't gotten far enough to even see that explained, though I did notice they front-loaded the doc with Floyd's arrest record, to prejudice us against him, and make whatever the cop does seem reasonable, though the cop had no idea about it. It demonstrates what Bill Burr says, about how white people make sure to telegraph their prejudice, before they describe someone.
'As for the "fake bill," should the police just not respond to a crime like that?'
Sure they should, but why with a gun pulled? Floyd may have acquired the bill innocently.
"I know there's a lot of refusal these days to enforce laws that protect shopkeepers."
Not from me.
"Do you think that people who run stores need to accept theft and cheating or find a way to protect themselves?"
I'm not questioning calling the police, but how they responded.
I had to run an errand. I'm jumping back into the doc now,...
Loury and McWhorter are late to the party but kudos to them for publicly recognizing the obvious.
Of course, Chauvin didn't "murder" Floyd, of course, the cops called an ambulance to save him, of course, the technique Chauvin applied is meant to use minimal force, of course, Floyd resisted, of course, Floyd overdosed, and of course, the system railroaded Chauvin and his colleagues.
Chauvin is just a BLM scalp.
Too bad for Chauvin. The legend (that’s he’s a murderer) became fact, the fact got printed, and that’s that. What appellate judge wants his name associated with opening the prison door? But like the so-called women’s groups who’ve rendered their future protestations laughable by denying that Israeli women were raped and brutalized, or by justifying it “in context,” this case has made a parody of the “No justice, no peace” chant. Of course, we live in the age of parody, so why should this be different.
The Crack Emcee said...Instead of bringing treatment to him? I mean, he can't breathe
Of course he can breathe. If he couldn't breathe, he wouldn't be able to say "I can't breathe." Where's your bullshit detector? "I can't breathe" is something people say when they are having trouble catching their breathe. Pretty much anybody who's ever been short of breath has said something like it.
Of all the things it might mean, what it definitely does mean is that he can breathe.
It's just a happy coincidence that a former FBI agent stabbed Chauvin in prison.
Shame on the Supreme court for not taking this case up.
Biden and his mobsters win again.
Biden+NBC and his toxic poisonous mob tentacles have far reach..
I drove past Cup Foods this summer. Not what I thought from TV. It is about the only business in a residential area.
There is still a monument to St. George in the street. I wanted to go in and buy something, but I was afraid I'd get beat up since I'm white.
It is a pity this man pumped himself full of poison.
but he did - and this why he is dead.
Too late for the truth…
Don't let facts stand in the way of Progressive justice.
“This is a hard place to be proud of.”
This is the point where the personal responsibility and accountability have been totally ignored.
Jumped back in at the 9 minute mark. The cop starts to sound more reasonable. He's confused about what he's dealing with. No doubt: this is an unreconstituted slave in the 21st century. Why - as the cop's partner is checking Floyd's name - Floyd had to be transferred to a car, across the street from where he is, totally docile, makes little sense. It's like walking the man to the gallows, because, once he's in that car, the chance they won't decide he "fits the description" or some shit, drops dramatically. Floyd starts freaking out, and resisting for the first time, claiming he's claustrophobic. He's already stated he doesn't want to "go back," so he's seriously jail-phobic, and I don't blame him. Like Zappa says, he "ain't really made for being out in the street." Jay-Z would say this ain't his life. GF's practically a symbol of America's neglect:
"See I was, born in sewage, born to make bomb music/Flow tight like I was born Jewish
Used the streets as a conduit - I kept arms/Thirty eight longs inside my mom's Buick
At any given moment Shawn could lose it, be on the news/Iron cuffs, arms through it;
or stuffed with embalmin fluid/Shit, I'm goin through it, Mom dukes too
Tears streamin down her pretty face, she got her palms to it/My life is gettin too wild,..."
Dave Begley said...
"I wanted to go in and buy something, but I was afraid I'd get beat up since I'm white."
If you telegraph your prejudice THAT hard, yeah, it's probably a good idea. Do you ever consider, if I thought like that, it would be impossible for me to exist?
“…overwhelmed with emotion”
Like the Hamas attackers, eh, crackers…
Iman said...
"This is the point where the personal responsibility and accountability have been totally ignored."
Totally ignored? Pfffft. Personal responsibility and accountability never existed. Bill Clinton's a free man with three known rapes. There's your sterling example of personal responsibility and accountability in America. And American values. You talk that like this country's ever seriously preached personal responsibility and accountability over "turn on, tune in, drop out." This is a government that sends its citizens letters saying the feds fucked up and they have to pay for it. Personal responsibility and accountability? That doesn't even come up in school.
George Floyd (or find the white equivalent of your choice) is the result of a bullshit nation.
I stand w Isreal. Leftists, Mullahs, Hamas-Palistinian terrorists can suck it said...
"It is a pity this man pumped himself full of poison.
but he did - and this why he is dead."
Just like Tom Petty and Prince. Just the same. I can see now, how easily y'all can dehumanize the Palestinians - to the point of killing them by the thousands - because you're so well-practiced on dismissing other Americans, here at home. It's like what everyone shares, as our innate humanity, is missing - from you.
I pity you.
Crack. They had called an ambulance. It went to the wrong location. They called ir before they tried to put him in the police car which he slithered then out of to evade arrest. Quite the Boy Scout was Saint George.
Drug delirium and 7th grade-level paeans to it.
So what? Chauvin was a cop. Floyd was black.
Back in @ 10:35 - Floyd is insisting he's not resisting. And he isn't. None of this aggressiveness by the police is warranted. There's more than one cop on him. For a man who was totally docile, and almost apologetic a minute ago.
11:00 - a pot pipe is brandished as evidence of,...what exactly? He smokes pot. So does a decent portion of the country and planet now. I'd be more impressed if he was caught in the car with an open beer.
12:45 - Floyd is so inarticulate this nation should be ashamed. Just the intellectual and cultural distance, between the arresting officers and him, is stunning. These are problems a lot of other nations don't have to cope with. And a lot of it is manufactured. Again: a hard place to be proud of sometimes. They haven't explained - in any way - why they're demanding anything of him or manhandling him into a vehicle. He might as well be a stray dog - not a citizen of the United States.
"... why not call for an ambulance?"
- Crack at 7:10
"...the cops had radioed for only 36 seconds after Floyd was on the ground. The firemen/paramedics station was only a few blocks away, but they went to the wrong location."
- Bob Boyd, 11 minutes earlier.
Over 150 years since the end of slavery in the USA, and still, everything looks like slavery. It's slavery, slavery everywhere.
Slavery still exists in the real, present world, you understand, an ongoing trafficking evil mostly happening in the continent of Africa - but that doesn't ever get a mention. It's all about 'reparations for what your great-great-great granpappy might have done to my great-great-great granpappy', if only he had been there.
Completely in touch.
"GF's practically a symbol of America's neglect...."
I thought this post was about a cop being convicted of a murder he didn't commit, not society's culpability for GF's numerous crimes.
15:30 - They keep flashing "no one is kneeling on his neck" like I'm supposed to be impressed, while I'm watching them otherwise violently manhandle him, unnecessarily, and - most importantly - without explanation. Nothing about this encounter has been warranted beyond the shopkeeper calling the cops about a fake bill. The rest is just the living nightmare of so-called "law enforcement" in this country, taking advantage of the poor band stupid for sport.
15:40 - a cop finally says he's under arrest for forgery. Mind you, he's telling the other cops, not the guy they're manhandling, who probably would've stayed cooperative, back on the sidewalk, with a clear explanation of what's happening to him and why. This is just bad police work. Once Floyd's back out of the car (!) and on the ground, they're explaining the cops are using their "technique" - like I give a damn, in an arrest the cops have already driven off the rails. They also want me to know the arresting officer is black - which is their concern not mine - as I'm watching a travesty of justice unfold.
17:00 - It looks like two cops are on top of Floyd's upper body, as Floyd starts calling for his mother. An ambulance is now called for what looks like a simple arrest gone totally wrong.
When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
@Enigma
It extends to police interactions.
For every 10,000 black people arrested for violent crime, 3 are killed by police. For every 10,000 white people arrested for violent crime, 4 are killed. This statistic needs to be repeated ad infinitum every time someone opens their big fat mouth about racial bias in policing and its effects on officer involved shootings.
Sources are the 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 FBI UCR (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-united-states)
19:00 - The film abruptly cuts to a previous arrest. Floyd was stopped in his car. Once again, no explanation why the cops just show up, barking orders at a U.S. citizen in a threatening manner. They're like ghosts, showing up out of nowhere, haunting his life. And George Floyd's life is surely a mess. He's a mess. An American shame. The cop from the previous arrest assumes Floyd ate drugs. If he didn't, whatever, right? Cops are cops and do what cops do. That assumption is enough "evidence" for the filmmakers to go back to the Chauvin incident, and an enhanced close-up of Floyd's mouth, to show what may be drugs. I don't like the style of these filmmakers. They don't engender trust.
20:30 - The first actually damning news in this documentary is the same that plagues Oct 7 - that body cam footage is kept from the public, only to be seen by a select few. It makes no sense, unless they're hiding something.
21:06 - Now there's a montage of mayhem, which I see as a natural result of a society that's not only gone wrong, but been wrong, for a long, long time. That's all I see here. What happened to George Floyd, so far in this film, should not be happening to Americans - and Americans know it. As surely as the people of Boston knew to throw British tea in the sea.
One point I have never seen included in discussions of the police behavior/justifications in their encounter with George Floyd: Driving Under the Influence.
Floyd was obviously completely high as crap---and sitting in the driver's seat of a vehicle. Were the police just supposed to let him drive away?
By the way, if you don't have extensive experience with law enforcement in real life, you would think that Floyd was definitely and immediately in abject terror for his life. I have a reasonable doubt about that, because what Floyd did is pretty common behavior by people who don't want to be arrested. They go into a schtick; they don't cooperate, they don't make sense, they throw absolutely anything and everything at the police (or people such as a shopowner threatening to call the police) to see if something sticks; if they can pursuade them to let him go, if they can spot an opportunity to make a break for it, if they can get on-lookers involved. Notice how, no matter what the police did---and they did try to talk him down, they did reassure him several times, they did give him multiple chances to do some simple things to make it easier on himself---Floyd just ramped up. Was this all drug-induced psychosis, was it a filibuster to baffle the police with bullshit, or was it a combination of the two? I think it was a combination of the two.
If only! If only! If the ambulance would have arrived in a minute or two. If the police would have checked on Floyd after he passed out instead of assuming that they had to continue to hold him down. So much tragedy for our whole entire country might have been avoided.
Floyd suffered from a progressive, probable Fentanyl-induced condition that prompted a premature exit from the officer's vehicle and preceded his restraint. The assembled mob prevented ready access by authorized medical personnel.
22:43 - Am I supposed to be rooting for the cops, here, against the poor? The poor who are throwing water bottles, rocks, and bricks, etc. - but not using guns - at the violent people, freely brandishing weapons over nothing, who - so far in this movie - have shown a total disregard for the citizens, and their right to know what's happening to them and why? What avenue does America provide to address living in a police state if it's not being addressed? From its inception, it's been the riot.
23:00 - A cop, who thinks he's entered a third world country (no hint of racism, there) asks "Where do I live right now?" because he's never faced accountability for his actions in his own life. He's the power that created that third world in America. Dehumanizing bastards can't claim they contribute anything to this country but a deep well of cynicism, over the thought that anybody has to share space with them. Much less, live under their thumb like this. This doc is NOT going well.
Social justice anywhere, is injustice everywhere.
Crack propagandizes for Black criminals just like he does for terrorists. Crack keeps two different bullshit streams spewing at the same time. One spews in Gaza. One spews in Minneapolis. Crack is multitasking bullshit across oceans and time. See Crack multitask! Hear Crack bullshit! Bullshit Crack bullshit!
“19:00 - The film abruptly cuts to a previous arrest. Floyd was stopped in his car. Once again, no explanation why the cops just show up, barking orders at a U.S. citizen in a threatening manner. They're like ghosts, showing up out of nowhere, haunting his life. And George Floyd's life is surely a mess. He's a mess. An American shame.”
What could Floyd do!?!? How could he NOT ingest those drugs! How could he not attempt to pass counterfeit money?!?!
Damn cops! Always trying to maintain order among stone miscreants!
Color is paramount to crackers. Except when it isn’t.
23:17 - The cops are concerned about citizens rioting, but not bad policing, or an out-of-control media, the two major factors I see driving this incident, whether anyone was on George Floyd's neck or not. The cops should show more courage, defending integrity, because I see none here. This sounds like sour grapes. They could ask the media to cut out the sensationalism, but they don't. They blame the people stirred by the broadcasts. In that way, the cops and the media are practically partners in battering the public.
24:24 - The difference, in the framing of this film, as we go from cops bullying a guy to acting like they're the victims of the public and they're so scared of everyone. It's just amazing. A female cop is lamenting the lack of equipment, meaning the police department is as fucked-up and unable to cope as George Floyd.
27:31 - Massive fires and looting, making me think America should be having some deep conversations about patriotism and consumerism, in a nation that keeps the world out of reach. Fighting all those wars, instead of investing in our people, did no one any favors. America don't care about the citizens, and now they don't care back. That's not their failure to go to prison for. That's supposed to be America's incentive to do better. Am I watching the same movie Loury and McWhorter did?
28:00 - Dead Pigs. Nyce.
Second biggest hoax in American history, with Covid being the first.
"I'm 9 minutes in, and I don't like anything about this arrest. Why's a "fake bill" worthy of a gun being pulled? Why must Floyd be put in a squad car, confinement, when he's obviously terrified and being no problem - submissive even - sitting on the street?"
In 2009, George Floyd was arrested for a 1st-degree felony charge, as per police criminal records/history/past, of assault and armed robbery he took part in 2007 and spent five years in prison for breaking into a lady’s house with the intent to rob her. George agreed that he wore a blue uniform to look like a government employee to gain the lady’s trust, and eventually pave his way into the house.
The lady soon realized that the person was impersonating to be a government worker, she tried to shut the door but Floyd brute-forced his way into the house. Consequently, a Ford truck pulled up to the house’s main entrance, five people exited the truck and went straight inside the lady’s house.
According to Daily Mail (UK), the court report mentions that the victim identified George as the criminal, tallest of all the robbers, who pressed a pistol to her stomach and forced his way into the house. George Floyd’s height was 6 foot 6 inches.
There's this thing called computers, and they're in every squad car. With a record like his, you better be ready to pull your gun.
Floyd was not a choir boy...
I'm glad Glenn and Mcwhorter are bringing this up. But if you followed the case closely, you already knew that Chauvin didn't murder anyone, and that a great injustice had been done to him. Floyd had deadly levels of fent in his system. The Doctor at the trial just lied and said they were "safe levels" and that weirdly you cant die from Fent even if you have toxic levels and a bad heart.
As been stated in another of these type cases, if you can tell an officer over and over that you "cant breathe" - you can breathe. If you can't make a noise, that means that you REALLY cant breathe.
You always wonder about Americans. Did they really believe Floyd was murdered or that we needed to all join in the worship of St. Floyd? How many public funerals did they guy get? Did the libtards on the jury actually look at facts in the case, or were they out to follow "the party line"? Was it just too important to the liberal/left to care about the facts or decency?
Never, ever, trust a Libtard. They will literally kill you rather then break from their "home team". They will talk about justice/decency/morality but its all bullshit.
“ Now there's a montage of mayhem, which I see as a natural result of a society that's not only gone wrong, but been wrong, for a long, long time.”
Well, certain societies. Because there’s nothing like looting stores to express your moral outrage at Amerikkka.
30:00 - Evacuating the precinct. This now becomes the American version of "One Day In September," but the cops are not German incompetents. George Floyd, the ambulance, the ethics of that encounter, etc. - all that is forgotten now, as we consume riot porn, and cops crying about the job they signed up for. These documentary filmmakers do NOT impress me at all.
32:00 - Whether it's this, or January 6, I'm impressed that Americans have not lost their revolutionary spirit.
33:30 - The female cop cries because the police were scared. As conservatives like to say "Join the party, Pal." This all started with them frightening someone over nothing. Who, again, is now forgotten, as they cry over losing a building. The emblem of their arrogance.
35:53 - After the precinct is burned down, the cops are talking like they lost to an opposing team, not like they've violently upset the fabric of their community. Amazing, and terrifying.
36:26 - A police officer laments that the precinct was their "home," much like the Palestinians say about their home, but we all know that's bullshit, right?
40:00 - We're back to George Floyd, and a woman is claiming something they don't prove: Floyd confessed to swallowing drugs during his previous police encounter. One thing they can prove, though, is, if he had hypertension, the way they were frightening him could've killed him. It was simply a bad arrest.
She also points out a major medical mistake and bad reporting of it. Again: a society as fucked-up and unable to cope as George Floyd, insisting he take all the blame. That's a fucked-up society.
43:30 - We finally get to why I'm watching this: Derek Chauvin. And,...nothing.
46:45 - Just got another sidebar, to establish Keith Ellison knows gang members. So do I. Welcome to America. Also, this focus on Ellison reminds me that this documentary hasn't shown one right wing politician, spouting off at the mouth about 'savages' or something. It wears its biases on its sleeve.
47:50 - Multiple errors in the autopsy. How does this country keep going?
Crack, the issue is simply whether the cops killed GF through criminal misconduct, as opposed to whether he died as a result of a drug overdose, underlying medical conditions, accident, or some other non-criminal factors, singly or in combination. All of your talk about America's supposed responsibility for GF's problems in life, or whether the cops needed to approach him with guns drawn, etc., are beside the point of the film. Your welcome to you opinions on those subjects, but why not address the point that the filmmakers are actually presenting?
Joe Hill killed the proprietor or a grocery store during a robbery and deserved to be hanged and Sacco and Vanzetti were anarchists who robbed the payroll and killed the courier.
Also Alger Hiss was guilty.
I have heard cynics say that regarding jurors, "the dumber the better".
Mark Twain wrote about this over a century ago...
The men who murdered Virginia's original twenty-six cemetery-occupants were never punished. Why? Because Alfred the Great, when he invented trial by jury and knew that he had admirably framed it to secure justice in his age of the world, was not aware that in the nineteenth century the condition of things would be so entirely changed that unless he rose from the grave and altered the jury plan to meet the emergency, it would prove the most ingenious and infallible agency for defeating justice that human wisdom could contrive. For how could he imagine that we simpletons would go on using his jury plan after circumstances had stripped it of its usefulness, any more than he could imagine that we would go on using his candle-clock after we had invented chronometers? In his day news could not travel fast, and hence he could easily find a jury of honest, intelligent men who had not heard of the case they were called to try-- but in our day of telegraphs and newspapers his plan compels us to swear in juries composed of fools and rascals, because the system rigidly excludes honest men and men of brains.
I remember one of those sorrowful farces, in Virginia, which we call a jury trial. A noted desperado killed Mr. B., a good citizen, in the most wanton and cold-blooded way. Of course the papers were full of it, and all men capable of reading, read about it. And of course all men not deaf and dumb and idiotic, talked about it. A jury-list was made out, and Mr. B. L., a prominent banker and a valued citizen, was questioned precisely as he would have been questioned in any court in America:
"Have you heard of this homicide?"
"Yes."
"Have you held conversations upon the subject?"
"Yes."
"Have you formed or expressed opinions about it?"
"Yes."
"Have you read the newspaper accounts of it?"
"Yes."
"We do not want you."
to be continued...
A minister, intelligent, esteemed, and greatly respected; a merchant of high character and known probity; a mining superintendent of intelligence and unblemished reputation; a quartz mill owner of excellent standing, were all questioned in the same way, and all set aside. Each said the public talk and the newspaper reports had not so biased his mind but that sworn testimony would overthrow his previously formed opinions and enable him to render a verdict without prejudice and in accordance with the facts. But of course such men could not be trusted with the case. Ignoramuses alone could mete out unsullied justice.
When the peremptory challenges were all exhausted, a jury of twelve men was impaneled--a jury who swore they had neither heard, read, talked about nor expressed an opinion concerning a murder which the very cattle in the corrals, the Indians in the sage-brush and the stones in the streets were cognizant of! It was a jury composed of two desperadoes, two low beer-house politicians, three bar-keepers, two ranchmen who could not read, and three dull, stupid, human donkeys! It actually came out afterward, that one of these latter thought that incest and arson were the same thing.
The verdict rendered by this jury was, Not Guilty. What else could one expect?
The jury system puts a ban upon intelligence and honesty, and a premium upon ignorance, stupidity and perjury. It is a shame that we must continue to use a worthless system because it was good a thousand years ago. In this age, when a gentleman of high social standing, intelligence and probity, swears that testimony given under solemn oath will outweigh, with him, street talk and newspaper reports based upon mere hearsay, he is worth a hundred jurymen who will swear to their own ignorance and stupidity, and justice would be far safer in his hands than in theirs. Why could not the jury law be so altered as to give men of brains and honesty and equal chance with fools and miscreants? Is it right to show the present favoritism to one class of men and inflict a disability on another, in a land whose boast is that all its citizens are free and equal? I am a candidate for the legislature. I desire to tamper with the jury law. I wish to so alter it as to put a premium on intelligence and character, and close the jury box against idiots, blacklegs, and people who do not read newspapers. But no doubt I shall be defeated-- every effort I make to save the country "misses fire." - from "Roughing It"
"As for the "fake bill," should the police just not respond to a crime like that? I know there's a lot of refusal these days to enforce laws that protect shopkeepers. Do you think that people who run stores need to accept theft and cheating or find a way to protect themselves?"
It wasn't just the fake bill. Floyd was acting very strange, and the storekeeper was concerned.
Look, if Blue Cities want to defund their police and/or allow drug usage, petty crimes, traffic violations, etc. - go ahead. You get what you vote for.
Too bad if you get victimized. But again, you get what you vote for.
People in SF vote D no matter what. They elect the same people over and over. You get what you vote for.
51:40 - Yet another promise to deal with the issue of Derek Chauvin. I hope so. Sheesh.
58:25 - It looks like moving George Floyd to the car across the street, from the spot where he was apologetic and docile, fucked-up the ambulance response time, too.
1:02:00 - I like Derek Chauvin's Mom.
My Summary of Crack’s response:
Everything bad that every black man in America does is the fault of White people. Every black drawback is also White fault.
Crack, is my summary of your views correct?
What about every good thing black people do - would you credit it also to the White people?
I think SCOTUS should have taken the case on the change of venue issue.
Not only was the jury pool biased by pre-trial publicity, but the courthouse was surrounded by a mob.
The MN Ct. of Appeals opinion was very slick on this point.
Crack:
In some cities in America, it's open season on whites. And this is a result of the Dems' identity politics.
Here's one for you: Should one race get free admission to the new science museum in Omaha? Or should all races pay the same price?
I may recite your answer in my federal court brief!
Crack:
Just so you know, I'm now a civil rights lawyer. I'm Omaha's Ben Crump! LOL.
More to come!
1:05:00 - This should be called "The FAIL of Minneapolis" because, from George Floyd all the way up to these documentary filmmakers, I'm not learning about anything I'm watching this for.
1:12:15 - I've still not been presented with evidence Derek Chauvin is innocent, just that the restraint technique he used was standard - which doesn't mean he didn't kill him - and it looks like his trial was a joke, too. For the record: I assume everyone is innocent until proven guilty and I don't see that here, either.
1:15:38 - Officer Kueng is the first to directly address an out-of-control media driving the insanity.
1:17:45 - Now the cops are leaning hard on the media. Is their obnoxious role in this being shelved by the filmmakers?
1:19:00 - Just over 20 minutes left and, aside from this country is a mess, I'm not sure what else these filmmakers are trying to say. They constantly shift focus, to take time to display their biases so much, I have no reason to exclude them from the critique, since they haven't convinced me of much beyond, I guess, they like cops as much as cops like themselves, and - along with the media - they all maintain a healthy disdain for the actual citizens of the United States, they're all supposed to be serving. It's pathetic.
1:05:00 - This should be called "The FAIL of Minneapolis" because, from George Floyd all the way up to these documentary filmmakers, I'm not learning about anything I'm watching this for.
1:12:15 - I've still not been presented with evidence Derek Chauvin is innocent, just that the restraint technique he used was standard - which doesn't mean he didn't kill him - and it looks like his trial was a joke, too. For the record: I assume everyone is innocent until proven guilty and I don't see that here, either.
1:15:38 - Officer Kueng is the first to directly address an out-of-control media driving the insanity.
1:17:45 - Now the cops are leaning hard on the media. Is their obnoxious role in this being shelved by the filmmakers?
1:19:00 - Just over 20 minutes left and, aside from this country is a mess, I'm not sure what else these filmmakers are trying to say. They constantly shift focus, to take time to display their biases so much, I have no reason to exclude them from the critique, since they haven't convinced me of much beyond, I guess, they like cops as much as cops like themselves, and - along with the media - they all maintain a healthy disdain for the actual citizens of the United States, they're all supposed to be serving. It's pathetic.
I think it's notable that McWhorter, who is not a conservative, is saying this.
Policeman (Keung, I think) pulled out his gun because GF wouldn’t show his hands. This would be true for anyone. Always put both hands visibly on the steering wheel or, if asked, out the window. They don’t know whether or not you have a weapon. Once GF showed his hands, the officer holstered his gun.
RigelDog said...
"Floyd was obviously completely high as crap"
I don't see that, and I've been high as crap. He's kinda nuts, but I don't see behavior I'd describe as high. Crazy, sure, but not high. Even when saying things that are provably untrue, he's not incoherent or illogical. I can always follow him. I can't assume his motivations, like the psychic types around here, but he's not a man ODing.
Do you suppose if Michael Byrd had been white instead of black and Ashli Babbitt had been black instead of white, Mr. Byrd would have gone to prison instead of getting a promotion?
Joe Smith said...
"Floyd was not a choir boy..."
That's so irrelevant to this debate it's meaningless.
I found it more than a little interesting that Chauvin got shivved just as some information about how the testimony of the various medical examiners involved was more or less coerced into to supporting the murder narrative. Based on a lot of what is coming out, it felt likely to me that a federal court somewhere might be brave enough to take a look at the obvious prosecutorial misconduct and order a new trial.
rcocean said...
"Floyd was acting very strange, and the storekeeper was concerned."
Which screams "draw your gun."
Hyphenated American said...
"Crack, is my summary of your views correct?"
No. But then, I wouldn't expect a crowd who can cheer paying for the mass murder of Palestinian children (and prefer that to simply telling the ugly truth about Zionism) to understand my views. Here's something even psychopaths can understand - and this film makes it crystal clear: this country failed us. All of us. The fact we're broke, this close to WWII ending, PROVES we've been shit upon. And every diss of the citizenry screams civics is shit in this country, even for those who claim to care about it, but it goes further than that: It's producing opposing camps, not a better union. And that's the death of us.
Dave Begley said...
"I think SCOTUS should have taken the case on the change of venue issue."
Obviously.
'That's so irrelevant to this debate it's meaningless.'
It goes to the cops being wary of him because of his violent previous past.
You're no Einstein but you're not so dumb as to discount this.
He was a thug who threatened to shoot a pregnant woman.
Good fucking riddance.
Dave Begley said...
"Crack:
In some cities in America, it's open season on whites. And this is a result of the Dems' identity politics."
That's a lie. Dude, come on - this is a country with 330+ million people - somebody's doing something to someone every-fucking-where in thousands of different permutations. But we hear about the extremes on the news. I'm out here with blacks and Mexicans and Arabs and nobody's preaching race hate. Of any kind. You sound like someone who can cause problems with your presumptions.
"Here's one for you: Should one race get free admission to the new science museum in Omaha? Or should all races pay the same price?"
Same price, but why do they charge to let this collection of religion-obsessed morons into any Science Museum in America? In San Francisco they have a weekly "free day" for museums, which seemed to solve the problem nicely. There's no resident who doesn't feel attached to The Exploratorium and MOMA, etc., eventually checking it out often, whether we had to pay or not, because it was actually there for us in return.
"I may recite your answer in my federal court brief!"
That would be lit.
Dave Begley said...
"Crack:
Just so you know, I'm now a civil rights lawyer. I'm Omaha's Ben Crump! LOL.
More to come!"
O.M.G. - that's great, I hope.
If only America were able to recruit police with the tact and sensitivity of Crack Emcee, none of these problems would ever happen. If confronted with 6'6" heavyweight,visibly either high or crazy, Crack would quickly size up the situation and with kindness and understanding bring the situation swiftly under control.....George Floyd spent most of his life making poor decisions. I suppose some of these poor decisions were caused by his response to racism but, one can claim with equal justice, that some of the racism that George FLoyd encountered was due to his own bad decisions. I presume that the one violent crime that he was convicted of was not the only violent crime he ever committed. Some guys you just know are potentially violent. I don't tag every Black person I meet as a violent felon, but some Black guys have "penitentary faces". George Floyd had that aura, and he used it as a bargaining chip....I grew up in a housing project. I knew guys like George FLoyd. They use violence and intimidation as a way to ease through life. It's a winning tactic until such time as it isn't....I think Chauvin is innocent, but I suppose some of the evidence is ambiguous. What I don't understand at all is how the officers who were with him were sent away for years for not intervening to stop the asphyxiation that most likely wasn't happening. The evidence against them is not so much ambiguous as non existent.
1:19:25 - Now a cop is discussing feeling helpless, humiliated, and hopeless - like our citizens. Or Zionists on Oct. 7. The lack of self-awareness is staggering. I was once in the car with a friend who gets pulled over a lot, when he got pulled over - because the police claim he looks like somebody - and they were as brutal with us as you can imagine. Hearing these cops talk about panic attacks, and things like that, really makes me wonder what they think they inflict on other people, doing their job the way they do. I never saw, say, French cops treating their citizens so ruthlessly when I lived there.
1:20:52 - Dereck Chauvin's mom is the only person in this film I'd like to have a beer with.
1:22:20 - This is now a real version of "No Country For Old Men" - but with no villain to track down.
1:26:05 - This is another political problem, like Palestine, that people think will be solved by a strong military solution, when it can't. Once you're caught lying to people, getting trust back is the only way home - unless you're prepared to kill them all. A cop is complaining about dehumanization in the film. Again: "Welcome to the party, Pal." You're in the crossfire now. (Dylan: "How does it feeeeel?")
@ Crack
After watching the movie, in your opinion:
Did the cops have malicious intent to physically harm George Floyd?
Were the cops motivated by racism to physically harm George Floyd?
Did Derek Chauvin commit 2nd degree murder?
Was your perception of what went down that day in any way changed by the movie?
Was your perception of what happened to the cops changed by the movie?
For Crack:
“ No. But then, I wouldn't expect a crowd who can cheer paying for the mass murder of Palestinian children (and prefer that to simply telling the ugly truth about Zionism) to understand my views. Here's something even psychopaths can understand - and this film makes it crystal clear: this country failed us. All of us.”
So it is your contention that every bad thing a black man does is the fault of the country who failed him. Yes? Not the White men, but the whole country. Yes?
If not - explain which bad things that Floyd did were his fault, the fault of his family, his black community, and which are the fault of the country?
Btw, do you then say that everything Chauvin did was the “fault of the country”, not his fault, and he should be freed from jail?
And what exactly do you mean by the “fault of country”? If you don’t brush your teeth today, who exactly is at fault? Joe Biden? 330 million Americans? Zuckerberg? The zionists?
I am simply asking you to clarify your statements.
P.s. you wrote: “ Dude, come on - this is a country with 330+ million people - somebody's doing something to someone every-fucking-where in thousands of different permutations.”. So when a black man kills Whites, that’s nothing more than random event, but when a black man dies at the hands of cops, that’s the fault if the whole country, all 330 million must atone for this. Yes?
“ We're back to George Floyd, and a woman is claiming something they don't prove: Floyd confessed to swallowing drugs during his previous police encounter. One thing they can prove, though, is, if he had hypertension, the way they were frightening him could've killed him. It was simply a bad arrest.”
How would a “good arrest” happen if you were there? How would you have handled a known violent thug? Gave him a kiss on the cheek and asked him to come with you? Or told him never to do it again and left?
Joe Smith said...
'That's so irrelevant to this debate it's meaningless.'
It goes to the cops being wary of him because of his violent previous past.
They didn't know about that when they approached him. We did, because the filmmakers "poisoned the well" at the start of the film. That's why it's not much of a film. They should've kept their prejudices and biases to themselves and made a better movie. You like it because you share those prejudices and biasses, but this is a documentary, not a right wing group hug. I expect better.
Mind you, I think Dereck Chauvin deserves another trial, but the cops are still the bad guys here. That arrest was a horrible, horrible fuck-up. We need a whole other approach to policing in this country because, seeing them as we do now, will NOT work.
some of the evidence is ambiguous
That's one way to characterize the evidence. Another is plausible but not probable, which under American jurisprudence would refute the viability of conviction under the prosecutor's selected terms.
"What I don't understand at all is how the officers who were with him were sent away for years for not intervening to stop the asphyxiation that most likely wasn't happening."
Well... it was either that, or letting the officers go free and watching the diversity burn down the city- mostly peacefully, I imagine.
Thank you Crack!
That info on the SF museum was super helpful!
William said...
"If only America were able to recruit police with the tact and sensitivity of Crack Emcee, none of these problems would ever happen."
I've had guns pointed at my head by gangstas about 6 times in my life - and I'm still here. That's what tact and sensitivity does for you in a tight situation. You forget: I grew up with these "animals" and "savages" you fear so much. And guess what? I'M STILL HERE. And they never scared me as much as y'all, with your unrestrained NewAge mayhem, the Nazis used to put Jews in ovens. (I loved Matt Taibbi the other day: "There's this quasi-religious thing that's going on, that I don't fully understand, that I heard reference to a few times. There's a kind of mysticism involved,...I heard some of this shit. They're just weird, y'know?" Yeah, I've heard,...)
If saying we need as new approach is crazy then I'm crazy, but this shit ain't working.
Live like a thug. Die like a thug.
"But he was a good boy!"
"They didn't have to do him like that."
"He never cause no real trouble."
"He love his moma."
And on and on. How many times have I heard that shit. I can't count. It's never your fault. "somebody else made him do it."
You have no agency. You are a child.
Crack:
I can't cite you and the Althouse blog in a brief; not kosher. But the info was valuable and I will use it in a deposition. The CEO of the Omaha museum came from your SF museum.
FWIW >> it was not even suicide by cop assisted
One point I have never seen included in discussions of the police behavior/justifications in their encounter with George Floyd: Driving Under the Influence.
Floyd was obviously completely high as crap---and sitting in the driver's seat of a vehicle. Were the police just supposed to let him drive away?
By the way, if you don't have extensive experience with law enforcement in real life, you would think that Floyd was definitely and immediately in abject terror for his life. I have a reasonable doubt about that, because what Floyd did is pretty common behavior by people who don't want to be arrested. They go into a schtick; they don't cooperate, they don't make sense, they throw absolutely anything and everything at the police (or people such as a shopowner threatening to call the police) to see if something sticks; if they can pursuade them to let him go, if they can spot an opportunity to make a break for it, if they can get on-lookers involved. Notice how, no matter what the police did---and they did try to talk him down, they did reassure him several times, they did give him multiple chances to do some simple things to make it easier on himself---Floyd just ramped up. Was this all drug-induced psychosis, was it a filibuster to baffle the police with bullshit, or was it a combination of the two? I think it was a combination of the two.
If only! If only! If the ambulance would have arrived in a minute or two. If the police would have checked on Floyd after he passed out instead of assuming that they had to continue to hold him down. So much tragedy for our whole entire country might have been avoided.
1:26:47 - There's not a single redeemable politician in this film. They're all worthless.
1:27:44 - I hate the phrase "the right side of history" now.
1:28:27 - a montage of violence that reminds me of school shootings, etc., when I was a boy. You know, before the nation cared about such things, because no whites were involved. Again: the neglect just spirals out-of-control.
1:29:18 - The filmmakers are now back on the race of the arresting cop, showing a profound ignorance to what's going on. As Louis CK says, trying to rob people of context doesn't work, but right wingers want nothing more. It's like nothing would make them happier than seeing a black or Palestinian abandoning their own families to hang out with a bunch of blondes for a change. And they say it like it's the most reasonable request in the world. It's a joke.
1:30:20 - I said this at the beginning about the cops: who's going to stand up for integrity? Especially if the cops won't do it?
FINI - Well, I made it to the end, and while I don't think it's a good film, I do think Derek Chauvin deserves another trial. This film mostly reminded me that, if the Republicans take power next year, even under Trump, it's gonna be more of this kind of ignorant, hate-brown-people bullshit, which is just a different kind of torture from what the Democrats offer. (Another bunch of Palestinian baby killers won again - oh joy!) We need more ideas and fewer ideologues making movies. I'm actually pleased that George Floyd is famous now after watching this film. That a true representative of 'the least amongst us' has been elevated to a position that can't be ignored is both refreshing and significant. I wish we could do it for every Palestinian, whose life was thrown away so unceremoniously. Something has to happen, to make people care, and make it clear to other people that we do care about other people. I don't know what it's going to take, to convince y'all that putting Jews in ovens is right around the corner from your yoga class, but we're gonna get there one way or another. And this shit is going to stop.
But I wouldn't be surprised if, like the Zionists, y'all decided to take another plunge first. Just to get it out of your systems.
Chauvinism did not kill Floyd, but the cops who shot Daniel Shaver (A white guy) should burn in hell.
Most people do not know that one of the officers involved (Keung?) is black.
The Crack Emcee said:
Our country has failed us.
Perhaps you should leave this hell of racism and inequality, and find another, more accepting home.
Some things to keep in ind:
- Floyd apparently swallowed his stash. He was facing arrest for the bad bill or whatever, and he had too much fentanyl and meth on him to get by on personal use, so was facing drug distribution charges if the drugs he had on him had been discovered on him. He apparently had done this before (pre-COVID-19), and survived, with prompt medical assistance.
- One of his problems was that he was alternating exhibiting symptoms of heavy meth use (manic) and narcotics OD. The foaming at the mouth and saying he couldn’t breathe were indications of the narcotics OD. He exhibited those OD symptoms before he was placed in the police car. He was apparently removed from the police car after it became apparent he was facing a life threatening narcotics OD. That was apparently when the ambulance call was upped from Code 2 to Code 3.
- Someone above mentioned that the ambulance went the wrong way. There was apparently also evidence that the ambulance couldn’t get close due to the hostile crowd that had formed around Floyd and the officers. At one point, it was apparently discussed whether the paramedics should exit their vehicle and proceed on foot.
- The hold that Floyd was put in was designed for narcotics OD situations, to prevent someone from rolling onto his back, and potentially dying from aspirating on his own vomit, which is common with narcotics ODs.
- the expensive state funded expert witness couldn’t have credibly testified that Floyd hadn’t died fro his narcotics OD. Floyd had made twice a POTENTIALLY fatal level of fentanyl in his system. The level of fentanyl in is system was at least double that of some people who had died of a fentanyl OD but less than that of others who had survived. It is quite possible that he would not have died from the fentanyl OD if he hadn’t recently had had COVID-19 (and been counted as a COVID-19 death), which often impairs lung functioning. That may have even been why he had been able to survive the previous time he OD’d from swallowing his stash.
- The trial was highly political. It was run and funded by Black Muslim MN AG Keith Ellison. He hired the best experts that the state of MN could afford. And the police had the quality of attorneys and expert witnesses that their union could afford. Reading the transcripts, the MN state funded expert’s testimony was not really credible - he testified that the PD taught the hold that supposedly killed Floyd (and ignored why it was used), without leaving a mark on his body, and his double the potentially lethal dose of fentanyl, after a recent bout of COVID-19 did not. No doubt, he sounded more convincing in person than on his transcript.
"the Nazis used to put Jews in ovens
Feature not a bug, right Crack?
Bob Boyd said...
@ Crack
After watching the movie, in your opinion:
Did the cops have malicious intent to physically harm George Floyd?
I don't think it was malicious: I accept they just did their job - badly - leading me to think about other arrests they've performed, and why the city was so distrustful and pissed at them. From start to finish, the police escalated the situation unnecessarily, and they don't get that, and this film doesn't confront them with it. A missed opportunity.
Were the cops motivated by racism to physically harm George Floyd?
Like many people who comment here, I don't think the cops look at the American citizens they serve with the same respect they reserve for one another, so their worst assumptions are accepted as fact, and their worst assumptions are fucking DARK. But no, it's not exactly racism. It's more class. These are just not their sort of people, so they get nervous and feel they must control them. My first band used to do a song about that.
Did Derek Chauvin commit 2nd degree murder?
No, I can't accept that. Manslaughter, maybe, but definitely not murder. I think he deserves a new trial. I don't even like the way the film dealt with him. Everything about this is a FAIL, but speaks eloquently of what America's become.
Was your perception of what went down that day in any way changed by the movie?
I didn't know George Floyd was as troubled as he was. I didn't know the prosecutors withheld body camera footage, proving they're dirty. If you remember, wasn't particularly moved by all this to begin with (I'm not a BLM supporter but still roll old school Martin and Malcolm). I think my major observation at the time of the riots was about store owners getting payback for locking down hair products. I've had no desire to defund or eliminate the police. The film did confirm cops need to do a better job. Minneapolis was Prince's city, and to think it's still this fucked-up is heartbreaking.
"Was your perception of what happened to the cops changed by the movie?"
Nope. America is a militaristic society that acts before it thinks. And, while our founding documents say "We The People" run things, the hierarchy of power flows the other way around, so we're under the rich, the cops, the politicians, the media, etc., and that's a situation ripe for abuse. That's all that film showed. When supposedly showing "concern" means cops approach a car with their gun drawn, screaming "show me your hands!" - and that's considered normal - we don't live on Earth but on Klingon.
Hyphenated American said...
"So it is your contention that every bad thing a black man does is the fault of the country who failed him. Yes? Not the White men, but the whole country. Yes?"
"Every bad thing a black man does"? Wait - what "bad thing" did George Floyd do? He possessed a fake bill. It can happen. Just by looking at him, I know he doesn't have a printing press in his basement. Still, your phrasing is illogical. Remember Whitey On The Moon? That was saying our national priorities were all wrong in 1970, and, I think, we see the result of that every day.
"If not - explain which bad things that Floyd did were his fault, the fault of his family, his black community, and which are the fault of the country?"
I never said he did a bad thing, or was a bad person. I said he was a mess. Disordered. George Floyd was a drug user and, at worse, petty thief. People fucking age out of that. In America, that puts him within the range of normal. My heart goes out to him and his family. I hope they can live better now.
"Btw, do you then say that everything Chauvin did was the “fault of the country”, not his fault, and he should be freed from jail?"
I said he deserves a new trial. I'm gutted when I think about a jailhouse stabbing when he may be innocent, resulting from all this mayhem, though I'm not particularly sympathetic to the claim "I was just doing my job" when somebody dies. We know the Police Chief is dirty and did lie, when he said Chauvin did something outside the manual, so he's got that going for him. Just horrible.
"And what exactly do you mean by the “fault of country”? If you don’t brush your teeth today, who exactly is at fault? Joe Biden? 330 million Americans? Zuckerberg? The zionists?"
It's funny you'd phrase it that way, when one symptom of extreme trauma is an enhanced gag reflex, resulting in less brushing. In a land where cops are repeatedly popping up out of nowhere, guns drawn, barking orders - or else. It's wild, that you don't 'get' that the mere texture of such an American existence is all wrong. It's not how you live, and it's not how other people should be forced to live, either. BTW - whose fault is it that most Americans have never heard of the Nakba when thousands of Palestinians were forcibly driven from their homes?
"I am simply asking you to clarify your statements."
You're too binary.
"P.s. you wrote: “ Dude, come on - this is a country with 330+ million people - somebody's doing something to someone every-fucking-where in thousands of different permutations.”. So when a black man kills Whites, that’s nothing more than random event, but when a black man dies at the hands of cops, that’s the fault if the whole country, all 330 million must atone for this. Yes?"
Waaaay too binary.
Hyphenated American said...
"How would a “good arrest” happen if you were there?"
When they had him seated on the ground, cuffed and quiet as they checked his record, all that was left to do was explain to him, if necessary, why he was being arrested. All very logical and understandable - from Floyd's point of view. Instead, he was manhandled, taken to a new location, to be manhandled further, shoved in a car, etc. all before a cop mentions - to another cop - he's being arrested for forgery. Come on.
"How would you have handled a known violent thug?"
He wasn't "a known violent thug" - the filmmakers "poisoned the well" for the viewers by opening the movie with his record. That was their fuck-up, as supposedly unbiased reporters, right from the start. You fell for it: they manipulated you. BTW - I live with known violent thugs now. I've mentioned there's three gigantic pit bulls in my building. I handle it OK.
"Gave him a kiss on the cheek and asked him to come with you? Or told him never to do it again and left?"
You'd be surprised how reasonable people can be when you give them respect. Y'all don't get that. As I said about the cops in this movie: they feel like they "lost" to an opposing team. Not the citizens told them something important. If cops aren't bright enough to get that - and they got guns - then what the fuck hope is there for the rest of us?
Dave Begley said...
"Thank you Crack!
That info on the SF museum was super helpful!"
HIGH FIVE!
Rusty said...
"You have no agency. You are a child."
This confuses you, in a country that YOU KNOW has been actively pursuing an "arrested development" agenda since the Boomers arrived, and men stopped wearing hats? I learned more about the government from watching "Schoolhouse Rock" than any class in school. Video games are the nation's favorite pastime. Figure it out.
Dave Begley said...
Crack:
"I can't cite you and the Althouse blog in a brief; not kosher. But the info was valuable and I will use it in a deposition. The CEO of the Omaha museum came from your SF museum."
Wow. That's brilliant. And not a problem. If I can be of service to you, in any way, just ask. It would be a privilege. Hit me up if you ever got a paying gig, too. I like those.
Joe Bar said...
"Most people do not know that one of the officers involved (Keung?) is black."
We call him "high yella," and yeah, he does get lost in the mix. But blacks don't care. They're cops, first.
Joe Bar said...
"Perhaps you should leave this hell of racism and inequality, and find another, more accepting home."
Smart. You must be new around here - I did that already. But, like the slavs during WWII, when caught between two dictators, I prefer the one using my own language.
Gary Rosen said...
"the Nazis used to put Jews in ovens
Feature not a bug, right Crack?
When Zionists are slaughtering Palestinians and people are cheering? It's certainly starting to look like it. I remember how upset they were when our other pals, Saudi Arabia, chopped-up a journalist. I didn't realize that was because they only got one
Thanks for the thoughtful answers, Crack.
I think your answers show the movie was a success if the goal was to inform and enlighten. I felt like I also learned a number of important things I didn't know about what actually happened and why.
The movie really demonstrates the abysmal state of the news media in this country. There is no legitimate reason why all these things revealed in the movie were not in the day to day coverage.
Too bad more people won't watch and learn.
One thing that jumped out at me, why was the FBI there so quickly? 12 hours? That's very unusual in a case like this.
Makes me wonder if they were just watching and waiting for another incident to create another Ferguson, MO and perhaps they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. If that's the case, look for them to do it again. A white cop killing another black man is inevitable and only a matter of a very short time. They'll certainly have any number of incidents to choose from if that's what they want.
Maybe things got so crazy after George Floyd that they scared themselves and won't do it again. If not, they'll certainly come up with some other clever way to sow hate and division.
Meanwhile, now-ex-Chicago PD detective Dante Servin, who shot a 21-year-old black woman, Rekia Boyd, in the back of the head as she walked away from him, has never spent a minute in jail. The trial judge acquitted him of manslaughter on the grounds that he should have been charged with murder.
AFAIK, BLM never said a word about it. Servin is hispanic, and there was no video. So there was no opportunity for ... monetization.
Meade: “There was no evidence of asphyxiation of any kind” - John McWhorter
He's technically wrong: Floyd died of asphyxiation, caused by the fentanyl OD, which paralyzed his lungs. There was no evidence of strangulation, i.e. compression damage to his airway.
Big Mike: The prosecutors, judge, jury, and appellate court caved in to a lynch mob.
The prosecution was led by Minnesota AG Keith Ellison, a flaming lefty who helped incite the mob. At least one of the jurors had been active in "George Floyd protests" and lied about it during voir dire, i.e. was part of the mob.
Bob Boyd: A white cop killing another black man is inevitable and only a matter of a very short time.
There was such an incident in Atlanta. There were BLM riots, and the Fulton County DA tried to indict the cop. Then Atlanta PD released the body-cam video, which showed the perp assaulting police, snatching a taser, running away, and pointing the taser at the cop who shot him.
Bob Boyd said...
"The movie really demonstrates the abysmal state of the news media in this country."
1,000 reporters walked through the Theranos offices - one got the story. And he had to be tipped-off by a whistleblower. We're in serious trouble.
So, Crack. Your opinion on Mohammed Noor's sentence. Just a tad short of five years, iirc. And reasons, too, please. Yo do know who he is, right? Right?
And how come Tyree Nichols' other name is "who?
'
Maybe "I can't breathe" made so much fuss in the Eric Garner situation it was in everybody's bag for the day of arrest. Hate to pass up a hot line like that.
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