November 8, 2023
"Twenty-two Democrats voted with 212 Republicans to censure Tlaib, and four Republicans voted with 184 Democrats against the resolution..."
"Tlaib was not required to stand in the well of the House and be rebuked by the speaker, as is traditionally the case.... [T]he resolution mentions Tlaib’s Nov. 3 video post on X, which included the first portion of the phrase 'from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,' a call for the eradication of Israel.... Tlaib responded by saying the phrase is 'an aspirational call for freedom, human rights, and peaceful coexistence, not death, destruction, or hate.'"
ADDED: "White House denounces Tlaib's use of controversial pro-Palestinian slogan" (The Guardian)("We strongly disagree with using that phrase – it’s been said by many people at the White House").
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
79 comments:
Clarify this for m:e is it mandated that she HAS to want Israel to exist? Or does she HAVE to be happy about it? What exactly is being enforced here?
If I were still living in my old hometown, Tlaib would be my congresscritter. Good grief.
She has to not advocate for the genocide of the Jewish people. Her comment quoted here demonstrates her dishonesty. “From the river to the sea” is not a call for peaceful co-existence.
She’s planted where she is for this moment, to blunt the response from the US. Is there any better rate of return on a little money to a Washington PR firm?
…that said I agree with Crack- what’s the infraction exactly?
Good.
Crack might force antisemitism on the Althouse commentariat, but the members of the House of Representatives do not have to put up with it from within their membership.
Rashida Tlaib cried on the House floor when she said that “Palestinians are not disposable”, which completely ignored the obvious fact that Hamas acts as if they are disposable. Palestinians that support Hamas think that they are indeed disposable, as long as their death is in the cause of killing Jews. Where are the Palestinians that don't support Hamas and therefore don’t think they are disposable?
RMc said...
"If I were still living in my old hometown, Tlaib would be my congresscritter. Good grief."
I used to live under Maxine Waters. I'll trade you.
The entire idea of a censure is ridiculous. Nothing happens. At one point in our distant past, public shame or humiliation meant something. Today it means nothing. Censuring any politician is more likely to be a boon to their donor receipts than anything else. She'll use this to market to her friends. You know, the Marxist and antisemites who support her views.
As for other comments here wondering aloud if she's being mandated to support Israel. No, of course not. She can be in full support of the people who cut babies out of live pregnant women, put other babies in ovens to bake them alive, cut off the hands of kids who get to watch their parents being raped and having their eyes cut out. She can support people who behead other people just because. She can chant out loud for the extermination of all Jews. That's her prerogative. It shows her judgement. It shows her class. It shows who she is. Feel free to support her. I give a shit what Congress does in the way of censure. They are all preening to their voters. This government is short on ability, long on virtue signaling.
rehajm said...
"I agree with Crack- what’s the infraction exactly?"
I gather it's considered a crime, now, to suggest or want the Palestinians to do to the Zionists what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians. Even though the Palestinians didn't start it, and never had designs on anyone, because they'd never been through a Holocaust that made them think - since the world's so shitty - for their own safety, they might as well violently impose themselves on others. In this case, others who had no representation - and thus, no defense - against their plot. So you can't even suggest that. It's bad. It's a Thought Crime.
Congress is full of boiled frogs.
Back in the 1950s Cold War, anti-Communist McCarthyism indeed got out of hand and the left used it as a whipping boy for the next 50 years. Still, there were plenty of "patriotic" moderate lefties who resisted foreign interference and overtly anti-USA hostile politics. Many eventually apologized to the Vietnam war veterans after spitting on them, etc.
Today...a solid 30 years after the uber-arrogant notion of "politically correct" entered mainstream discourse...the Diversity crowd has lost all sense of fair play and proportion. When someone says they want to kill you, and they try to kill or you actually kill those around you, accept that they are killers. Killers hold a combat stance and use weapons. Pretty much everyone in Israel and the USA has been very, very, very patient. But perhaps suicidality patient per their boiled frog inclusion doublespeak.
Animals compete. Predators kill. Humans are predatory animals. Don't deny this. Manage this.
What she said was abhorrent, but Congress critters do that all the time. Why is she censured? Did she damage the functioning of the legislative body? Adam Schiff did, was censured, and was socially rewarded.
The Crack Emcee said...Clarify this for m:e is it mandated that she HAS to want Israel to exist? Or does she HAVE to be happy about it?
She has to oppose terrorism. She has to think the wanton murder of Jewish children is a bad thing. Do you have a problem with that?
She's the democrats MTG, just nastier, and uglier...if that was even possible.
Talib screamed from the top of her lungs: "DEATH TO THE JEWS" which she later stated was 'an aspirational call for freedom, human rights, and peaceful coexistence, not death, destruction, or hate.'"
The Crack Emcee said...What exactly is being enforced here?
Nothing is being enforced. "From the River to the Sea" means drown all the Jewish people of Israel in the sea. She's just getting called out for supporting a second Holocaust which would lead to a massive WWIII.
Let's be real. She is all in favor of what Hamas did. The kidnappings, the baby killings and all. To her, Israelis are not human.
Clarify this for m:e is it mandated that she HAS to want Israel to exist? Or does she HAVE to be happy about it?
She doesn't have to be happy about anything and obviously she isn't. Seems like a rather miserable person.
"an aspirational call for freedom, human rights, and peaceful coexistence..."
Not even honest enough to stand up for what you want. Someone should just stand up and read the Hamas charter out loud. Tlaib could speak her part from memory.
I’m not all that interested in Crack’s whackadoodleness but I am interested in a rules-based Congress so I’m interested in what rule she violated that calls for non-punishment punishment…
If it were possible to find just one example of a knowledgeable person's (that is, not a college student's) using "from the river to the sea" in the Palestinian context without meaning "totally without Jews," then her claim might carry a little more weight.
But I don't want her censured, much less consumed or self-censoring. I want her to keep talking. Keeeeep talking.
Rancida Tilapia needs detox.
Crack is very comfortable with barely-coded calls for genocide of disfavored minorities. Huh.
Seems like bad precedent.
Still, it’s nice for folks to use their Constitutionally protected freedom of speech to self-identify as racists and terror simps.
tim maguire said...
"She has to oppose terrorism. She has to think the wanton murder of Jewish children is a bad thing. Do you have a problem with that?"
No, no, no. Of course not. It's just that - looking at my Conservative Handbook - If the answer to Black Lives Matter is "ALL lives matter," then, if the murder of Jewish children is a bad thing, it HAS to mean the murder of ALL children is a bad thing, including what's happening to Palestinian children - right now - and, as usual, in vastly larger numbers, and with vastly less concern or aid. And their deaths are paid for with our tax dollars.
Benjamin Netanyahu made sure Hamas got it.
Gusty Winds said...
"Nothing is being enforced. "From the River to the Sea" means drown all the Jewish people of Israel in the sea. She's just getting called out for supporting a second Holocaust which would lead to a massive WWIII."
So, if she was calling for the genocide of the Palestinian people - as Israel appears to be doing - would that be OK?
The reason several Dems voted for the censure was the threat to a key voting block turning away or staying home.
Me? I say let her speak. Lots of Congress-critters say things that make me cringe. If her constituents find it repulsive enough she will be shown the door.
If a Congressional censure is the worst thing to happen to you, your life s truly blessed.
Saying From the River to the Sea is an expression of Hope for Peace Harmony and Coexistence is like saying that the Final Solution is a simple aspiration to end all of our "problems".
Growing up in a small town in East Tennessee, I saw the confederate flag often. I knew it was the flag of the south in the civil war, and for the majority of people who flew it, it represented southern heritage, culture, and history. No one I knew flew it as a symbol of hate, racism, or anything else. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I learned how much so many people, especially black people, hate the confederate flag and could ONLY view it as a symbol of racism. I know there are a small number of true racists who use that flag as a symbol of white supremacy. But I still believe the average modern southerner who waves the confederate flag has only benign intentions.
I think we have a similar situation here with “from the river to the sea…”, but probably with an inverted bell curve of their intentions as compared to the confederate flag. Are there some who truly mean it in an innocent way - as merely a call for support, human rights, yadda, yadda, yadda….? I do. But those are the naive few (probably almost exclusively white liberals) who probably also think slogans like “queers for Palestine!” somehow make sense. Do I think Tlaib is one of those naive people? Nope. Do I think a vast majority of Islamic Muslims who use that phrase have innocent intentions with that chant? Hell no. It’s literally in their charter to kill Jews. Even in the Koran, the trees and rocks that Jews are supposed to hide behind will tattle to the Muslims so they can slaughter those “infidels.”
So confederate flag supports as well as “from the river” chanters are using the same explanations, but how do we know who to believe? All I know is no confederate flag waving faction of southerners in modern times have slaughtered black people en masse, a la October 7th. And many Muslims literally CELEBRATED the slaughter of innocent Jewish civilians.
When people tell you who they are, believe them.
Crack- all lives do matter. But that doesn't mean that if you come at me or my family, harm me or my family, I'm going to just let you walk away and declare a cease fire so you and your family can rest easy tonight. It means that in civil times, among civil people, I would treat everyone as I would wish to be treated. Every one.
Israel has to destroy those who committed horrible, heinous crimes that should make any civilized person nauseous. They cannot make the Palestinian people, those who were not handing out candies in celebration of beheading babies, leave Gaza, or move to southern Gaza. They cannot change that Hamas strategically placed their tunnels, HQs, weapons storage underneath hospital, schools, mosques. Hamas is counting on people like you to protect them in the name of humanity. Israel has done that previously. And the return is always the same. Not peace. Instead- bombings and beheadings.
I just watched a video of a long line of Palestinians leaving the center of Gaza City, walking in a long stream of people, out of that area, toward the south. They are doing so under the oversight of the Israeli military. They are literally being protected in their leaving by the Israelis. I wonder, if the roles were reversed, just how horrifying the scene would be. You know the answer.
It's not that Israelis don't respect life. Israelis love life as much as any peoples I've ever met. Islamists celebrate death. It's hard to play nice with people who celebrate death.
Crack again:
So, if she was calling for the genocide of the Palestinian people - as Israel appears to be doing - would that be OK?
Crack never seems to ask himself why no Arab state will accept Palestinian refugees. I guess they just don't have a need for tunnels and bombs.
Crack is too stupid to understand “Don’t start nuthin’, won’t be nuthin’
natatomic said...
"Growing up in a small town in East Tennessee, I saw the confederate flag often,... It wasn’t until I was an adult that I learned how much so many people, especially black people, hate the confederate flag and could ONLY view it as a symbol of racism."
It doesn't seem to occur to anybody that a country that's let the confederate flag fly so freely, while everybody else silently sits around and says nothing- knowing what it means to black Americans - probably ain't the best country to be saying what's ethically sound. Because that country's morals sound kind of warped. So warped, they can't think straight. For instance:
America has freedom of speech. It doesn't have freedom of speech just in peacetime but all the time. And what does freedom of speech protect? Speech we don't like. So what does it matter what Tlaib said?
Unless we've abandoned freedom of speech.
The way that all these indictments make Trump more popular with his fan base, this censure will make her more popular with her constituency.....I don't like her or her views, but she's saying what her constituents want her to say....I'd like it better if our country didn't invite in so many immigrants who were tacit or outright supporters of Hamas, Isis, or Sharia law. It's unsettling to see all those people who regard Hamas as some kind of legitimate political entity.
The way that all these indictments make Trump more popular with his fan base, this censure will make her more popular with her constituency.....I don't like her or her views, but she's saying what her constituents want her to say....I'd like it better if our country didn't invite in so many immigrants who were tacit or outright supporters of Hamas, Isis, or Sharia law. It's unsettling to see all those people who regard Hamas as some kind of legitimate political entity.
Tlaid(D) thinks Jews are expendable.
heh - she and her ilk are clueless
Genocide - yet another word Crack doesn't understand the meaning of.
Crack, like Tlaib, has no problem repeating rebuked lies.
if the murder of Jewish children is a bad thing, it HAS to mean the murder of ALL children is a bad thing, including what's happening to Palestinian children
You're absolutely right, Crack - the murder of all children is a bad thing, and Hamas ought to be universally hated for its murder of not only Jewish children on Oct. 7 and at other times, but its continuing murder of Palestinian children.
You know they've put up roadblocks to keep Palestinian civilians from getting out of the north, right? You know they're shooting their own people on the roads to keep them in the north? You know about the whole human shields thing, don't you?
It is utterly disingenuous to say that "what's happening to Palestinian children" is that Israel is "murdering" them, that is, targeting them for death and then killing them the way Hamas did the Jewish children on Oct. 7, rather than because Hamas deliberately puts and keeps them in harm's way. So photogenic...
We all know what "from the river to the sea" means. Like the Hamas terrorists she supports, Tlaib is an inveterate liar.
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...
So, if she was calling for the genocide of the Palestinian people - as Israel appears to be doing - would that be OK?
Of course it wouldn't be ok. But that is not what Israel is not calling for, nor are they implementing a genocide of Palestinians as you are suggesting. They want to destroy Hamas. Hamas needs to be destroyed, just like ISIS.
You are equating all Palestinians with Hamas. That's obviously not true. Are ALL Arabs ISIS? Of course not.
Seems to me the poor Palestinians are actual victims of Hamas, just like the kidnapped and dead Israelis. Hamas purposefully puts Palestinians in harms way. They threaten anyone who tries to move south as warned.
Ask yourself. Is Hamas motivated to make the lives of Palestinians better, or to kill as many random Israeli's as possible and sacrifice Palestinians in the process? I say it's the latter. This attempt at moral equivalency is weak.
"I know you are, but what am I" is also the same argument used by Obama.
Hamas knew the reaction from the Nov 6 horror THEY planned and committed would be severe. They knew innocent Palestinians would be killed. Don't tell me that wasn't calculated.
For the moment, this is exactly what HAMAS wanted. They want a broader conflict. The outcome is yet to be determined.
"Crack might force antisemitism on the Althouse commentariat...."
Criticism of Israel and it's state actions is not, axiomatically, anti-semitism, (just as criticism of America is not axiomatically "anti-American"). Israel wants (and has long been trying) to redefine any/all criticism of their state actions as anti-semitic by definition, therefore unspeakable, beyond the pale, effectively, blasphemous. Jews, and even Jews living in Israel who criticize actions by the state are branded as "self-hating Jews," a glib and specious slur, as childish as it is irrational. It is a bullying tactic intended to shut down any criticism of Israel by Jews, and to "cancel" those who do, such that they will be disregarded without any examination or consideration of the substance of their criticisms.
Hamas is a declared enemy of the United States. Sworn military and elected officials are prohibited from providing material aid to an enemy as that is treason. A citizen may say whatever they want. I certainly do not want this person in a position to do anything which could endanger my family.
Hamas is a declared enemy of the United States. Sworn military and elected officials are prohibited from providing material aid to an enemy as that is treason. A citizen may say whatever they want. I certainly do not want this person in a position to do anything which could endanger my family.
"It's just that - looking at my Conservative Handbook - If the answer to Black Lives Matter is 'ALL lives matter,' then, if the murder of Jewish children is a bad thing, it HAS to mean the murder of ALL children is a bad thing, including what's happening to Palestinian children - right now - and, as usual, in vastly larger numbers, and with vastly less concern or aid. And their deaths are paid for with our tax dollars."
This comment by the Crack Emcee is true...axiomatically!
"Growing up in a small town in East Tennessee, I saw the confederate flag often. I knew it was the flag of the south in the civil war, and for the majority of people who flew it, it represented southern heritage, culture, and history. No one I knew flew it as a symbol of hate, racism, or anything else. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I learned how much so many people, especially black people, hate the confederate flag and could ONLY view it as a symbol of racism. I know there are a small number of true racists who use that flag as a symbol of white supremacy. But I still believe the average modern southerner who waves the confederate flag has only benign intentions."
This may be, but it simply reveals their willed (or taught) ignorance. The Confederacy existed fewer than five years. How can its flag have become a symbol of any culture but the Confederacy's slave-owning culture? Upon having its meaning explained, why would well-meaning and non-racist southern people of later years not immediately understand and scorn the flag and any public display of it?
Were I in the House, I would not have supported the censure measure for reasons of principle. Tlaib should be free to speak her mind on the issue, and if her district's voters wants to punish her for them, then they can vote her out.
Gusty Winds said...
"They want to destroy Hamas. Hamas needs to be destroyed, just like ISIS."
But that's not true. They're not going to destroy Hamas. Benjamin Netanyahu has said as much. They're after the Palestinian Authority - not Hamas.
Jamie said...
I asked you once already what you thought of the argument against your claims and you did not reply. I'm asking you again.
Congress critters are such wussies these days. The House censured Tlaib--but didn't even make her stand in the well to hear the resolution of censure read.
Back in the day, (1856 or so) Representative Preston Brooks beat Senator Charles Summner almost to death with a cane. Now that's "censure". Couldn't the House of Representatives at least have the Speaker rap Ms. Tlaib's knuckles with a ruler? Just asking for a friend.
As for the commenters lamenting living under Tlaib or Crazy Maxine Waters--imagine my plight. Adam Schiff is my Congress critter--a burden I've borne for some 22+ years now. And the Schiffty One is likely to be my Senator come December 2024.
Temujin said...
"Crack- all lives do matter. But that doesn't mean that if you come at me or my family, harm me or my family, I'm going to just let you walk away and declare a cease fire so you and your family can rest easy tonight."
Why you only extend that to one side is a mystery.
"Israel has to destroy those who committed horrible, heinous crimes that should make any civilized person nauseous."
And the crimes Hamas was getting revenge for are just nothing.
"I just watched a video of a long line of Palestinians leaving the center of Gaza City, walking in a long stream of people, out of that area, toward the south. They are doing so under the oversight of the Israeli military. They are literally being protected in their leaving by the Israelis. I wonder, if the roles were reversed, just how horrifying the scene would be. You know the answer."
Give me a break. If they wanted to they could've let them into Israel a month ago.
"It's not that Israelis don't respect life. Israelis love life as much as any peoples I've ever met. Islamists celebrate death. It's hard to play nice with people who celebrate death."
It's hard to believe people who call other people "animals."
Temujin said...
"Crack- all lives do matter. But that doesn't mean that if you come at me or my family, harm me or my family, I'm going to just let you walk away and declare a cease fire so you and your family can rest easy tonight."
Why you only extend that to one side is a mystery.
"Israel has to destroy those who committed horrible, heinous crimes that should make any civilized person nauseous."
And the crimes Hamas was getting revenge for are just nothing.
"I just watched a video of a long line of Palestinians leaving the center of Gaza City, walking in a long stream of people, out of that area, toward the south. They are doing so under the oversight of the Israeli military. They are literally being protected in their leaving by the Israelis. I wonder, if the roles were reversed, just how horrifying the scene would be. You know the answer."
Give me a break. If they wanted to they could've let them into Israel a month ago.
"It's not that Israelis don't respect life. Israelis love life as much as any peoples I've ever met. Islamists celebrate death. It's hard to play nice with people who celebrate death."
It's hard to believe people who call other people "animals."
This government can't defeat Hamas
I think it's a mistake to thinking that Hamas is driving the boat. This is straight up Iranian operation with the help and approval of their Russian allies to derail the Saudi Arabia Israel alliance against the Persian Mullahs.
To make the Iranian strike against Israel work is to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties. The only people that are hoping for Palestinian genocide is Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Russia and their fellow travelers on the left.
Drago has mentioned that no other country wanted to take in the Palestinians. This says that that is not only untrue, but it's the same argument that Hitler made in World War II about the Jews.
These commentators call it a "patently racist" argument, which I don't find surprising.
Tucker Carlson and Glenn Greenwald discussed the "stunning hypocrisy" when it comes to free speech on the right.
The Crack Emcee:
... a country that's let the confederate flag fly so freely ... me me me ... Speech we don't like. So what does it matter what Tlaib said?
Another word Crack doesn't understand is oxymoron.
In the November 3 video, Tlaib threatened to withdraw her support from Biden’s 2024 reelection bid. Indeed, his poll numbers have subsequently gone down. House Republicans censured what was effectively a Trump campaign ad. As they say, politics makes strange bedfellows.
The Crack Emcee said...Clarify this for m:e is it mandated that she HAS to want Israel to exist?
She doesn't have to want Israel (the country) to exist, but she is wrong to proclaim that the "Israel Problem" should "finally be solved" by the extermination of the Jewish people (and others) who live in Israel.
(Fun fact - Israel is presently 21% Arab and 6% other non-Jewish, non-Arab ethnicities)
And what does freedom of speech protect? Speech we don't like. So what does it matter what Tlaib said?
Nobody prevented or is preventing Tlaib from speaking/posting her Twitter )or X, or Instagram, or whatever). That is all that freedom of speech protects. It does not mean that you can speak without consequences, such as Congress voting to censure you for what you said, or law firms can't chose not to hire you for what you said, or the like. What you say does still matter.
"I think it's a mistake to thinking that Hamas is driving the boat. This is straight up Iranian operation with the help and approval of their Russian allies to derail the Saudi Arabia Israel alliance against the Persian Mullahs."
Has any evidence been confirmed that any of this speculation has any truth to it?
Jamie said...
I asked you once already what you thought of the argument against your claims and you did not reply. I'm asking you again.
You're going to have to give me a little bit more than that. Searching for your name on this thread is a review of about every other comment on the thread, which I don't have time to do. Can you give me a timestamp? I watched the video that you linked to and will be happy to reply if you show me where you asked me this question, so I'm not just answering your recapitulation of it.
I'm out for the evening but will check this thread again when I get home, if you decide to give me that time stamp.
"Criticism of Israel and it's state actions is not, axiomatically, anti-semitism, (just as criticism of America is not axiomatically "anti-American")."
Well-said Cook. You can be critical of Israel and critical of cohorts of people, which includes Jews, without being an anti-semite.
People do it to white people and majority white nations all the time, and I've yet to be put in a concentration camp...not like they'd have much luck with that anyway.
Jeezus! Another Crack blog day.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_conflict
Another former Israeli Prime Minister is a self-hating Jew.
Michael K said...
"Jeezus! Another Crack blog day."
Ann has 11 posts up today. I have commented on 5. On some of those I only have one or two comments.
This, Ann, is a picture of people obsessed. Obsessed with the only black guy here. They follow me around. They don't leave me alone. They call me out for no reason. They are as unending as the tortures of NewAge.
Their unnecessary bullshit reminds me why one of my foster mothers came home, every day, and screamed "I hate white people."
They are just an active source of unrelenting madness and harassment.
Jamie,
"I watched the video that you linked to and will be happy to reply if you show me where you asked me this question, so I'm not just answering your recapitulation of it."
I've cued it up for you - speak on this.
tommyesq said...
"Nobody prevented or is preventing Tlaib from speaking/posting her Twitter )or X, or Instagram, or whatever). That is all that freedom of speech protects. It does not mean that you can speak without consequences, such as Congress voting to censure you for what you said, or law firms can't chose not to hire you for what you said, or the like. What you say does still matter."
Then freedom of speech, as I see it, doesn't exist. What's the point of giving your opinion if people are just going to crush you for it? Where's any protection in that?
How is Piers Morgan so smart but you guys stay so stupid?
Norman Finkelstein: Should Israel Exist?
Let her hate titrate in open speech.
"a call for the eradication of Israel...."
If she had just called for the eradication of the USA they would have left her alone.
Crack said, " If they wanted to they could've let them into Israel a month ago."
They did. They have for years. Thousands of them. That's how they planned their attack of Oct. 7. Many Palestinians have had approval to work in Israel for years. And a slew of them did the legwork to help plan this out. Many Muslims and other Arabs live in, and are Israeli citizens. How many Jews are left in Muslim countries around the Middle East? A handful now. Used to be hundreds of thousands in multiple countries.
One side is determined to wipe out the other. It is not Israel. You'll forgive the Israelis if they don't go recruiting for Palestinians in the near future.
I've seen the videos of what took place in Israel on Oct. 7. I've seen photographs and videos. I've listened to audio conversations between some of the murderers. They are animals. I don't discard other humans lightly. They've earned it.
Then freedom of speech, as I see it, doesn't exist. What's the point of giving your opinion if people are just going to crush you for it? Where's any protection in that?
But to preclude people from reacting as they saw fit (short, of course, of committing a crime against the speaker) would be to preclude the listeners' free speech.
Jamie,
"I watched the video that you linked to and will be happy to reply if you show me where you asked me this question, so I'm not just answering your recapitulation of it."
I've cued it up for you - speak on this.
So, you asked me to respond to some question that you said I hadn't responded to. You then linked to a 17-minute video, which I watched without enlightenment. I asked you to give me a timestamp to your comment where you asked me the mystery question so I could know what specifically you wanted my response to.
And instead of giving me the timestamp, you just linked to the same video, cued up to a portion where the guy was pointing out that Omar? Tlaib? both? I can't remember now - had tweeted images that were supposedly of dead Palestinian children, but in fact were victims of an earthquake in another country years ago.
I'm still mystified about what you expected from me here. I watched the whole video. It contained no new information. And the part you want me to comment on doesn't even support your thesis.
This is the problem I have with your New Age stuff too: you seem to believe you're being excruciatingly clear, but dude, you're not.
Cracker MC asks an important question: Why should Palestinian Muslims have to “suffer” (the supposed indignity of Jews being able to govern themselves) for what Nazis did?
For the same reason that Native Americans have to suffer allowing African Americans to rape their land for the sins of the African slave traders that sold them into the colonial American workforce.
If the African American interlopers won’t decolonize themselves from the blessed Native American land that they took over, then Jews won’t “decolonize” themselves from the last part of the Middle East that they haven’t yet been banished from.
And Minister Farrah Cracker Khan MC pretends that Palestinian Arabs only started massacring Jews after Israel was established. This is a severely miseducated man.
Amusing that the honorable Rep Tlaib had to redefine her genocidal phrase to mean something innocuous. Reminds me of an old Monty Python Writer's Sketch, Monty Python Writer's Sketch where famous writerssay rude things about the king, in his presence. Rather than suffer the ire of the king, the writers have to redefine their insults into praise of the king. Until one insult is just explained with raspberries, "BBBBBFFFFFTTTT!" and the king graciously accepts that as an explanation.
Tlaib, I offer you Shaw's raspberries for your future use when asked why you support Hamas and their genocidal reign over Gaza.
Jeezus! Another Crack blog day.
It's comforting to know that Crack and Cook are always on the wrong side. Always.
fifty-four forty or fight
Then freedom of speech, as I see it, doesn't exist. What's the point of giving your opinion if people are just going to crush you for it? Where's any protection in that?
Emphasis mine. Unfortunately "as I see it" is the standard that allows curtailment of free speech, when the listener says, "What you're saying, as I see it, is actual violence!" or "I feel unsafe because of what you're saying!" And of course that a move afoot to criminalize this kind of speech - to define it as "hate speech," which doesn't necessarily have to include even a veiled threat by the reasonable-person standard if the unreasonable listener perceives a threat. Preventing this kind of curtailment of speech may not have been the primary aim of the 1A (which if I understand it was to prevent criminalization of speaking against the government, and maybe blasphemy), but it sure can prevent the same penalties - imprisonment or worse.
But it's not possible to make speech consequence-free, as I've said elsewhere. You always risk losing a friend or family member. You may risk losing your job if you offend a customer or your boss. But you don't risk imprisonment or death or a curtailment of your other rights (with certain exceptions that have been hammered out over the centuries). And no one has "crushed" Tlaib, and on this blog it appears that most of us don't even want her censured.
But that doesn't mean she won't possibly pay a price for her speech, if her constituents decide she has gone too far for them. OTOH, maybe her support among them will grow. Time will tell.
"Criticism of Israel and it's state actions is not, axiomatically, anti-semitism, (just as criticism of America is not axiomatically "anti-American")."
Well-said Cook.
Agree! And I think it is the case that some pro-Israel Jews both in and outside of Israel try to conflate those terms and to get everyone to go along with it, sometimes with some nasty rhetorical tactics. But - for instance - Netanyahu's particular realpolitik has come under a lot of criticism, which is anti-him rather than antisemitic. And it isn't at all beyond the pale to want Israel to take a different approach to Gaza - to call for a unilateral ceasefire - because you are appalled at the loss of life in Gaza. (It's not at all realistic either.)
What does appear to me to be antisemitic is apologetics for Hamas's actions* (and those of the other jihadist and Islamist groups, including the PA), and elevation of "from the river to the sea" as the proper order in the Middle East. I've said elsewhere that I'm starting to have a hard time distinguishing between antisemitism and anti-Zionism at the moment, because so many people who claim to be anti-Zionist seem to be supporting stuff like the "Gas the Jews" chants in Sydney. And I think, based on what we see and hear from the Muslim on the street in the non-Western world (and in parts of the West too), that it's largely a distinction without a difference within a lot but not all of Islam.
Among non-Muslims, anti-Zionism seems to break down into a) historical ignorance, b) pacifist idealism, and c) embrace of oppressor/oppressed as the engine of all human action and interaction. Or so it seems to me.
* This one seems to me to be simple racism, the "soft bigotry of low expectations" taken to a ridiculous extreme. And people capable of building the tunnel network that exists in Gaza, capable of reengineering materials intended for peaceful use like water pipes into deadly weapons, and capable of planning and carrying out the Oct. 7 attacks ought surely to be capable of a more constructive approach to what they see as their problem.
Of course, Iran is working on that, for some definitions of the word "constructive."
I don't like her, but I like free speech even more than I don't like her. It's disgraceful that no one in Congress is allowed to support the Palestinians.
Post a Comment