Writes Giles Coren, in "We talk about getting out — just not there/My ancestors fled rising antisemitism before it was too late but I really don’t want to end up in rainy New Zealand" (London Times).
My mother was a doctor not because she was madly interested in medicine but because her father insisted she train for a portable profession, so that should she be forced to leave London in a hurry, she could earn a living (and get a visa) wherever she went. And that kind of attitude gets passed down. It’s why, I think, if you want to get eugenic about it, modern Jews are so very, shall we say, “visible” (one hesitates to say “successful”). Because the ones who got out of the Old Country were those who could read, speak modern languages, had real skills and, crucially, the energy to get up and go. The inward-looking, Yiddish-speaking schmendricks of the Steppe, who preferred to sit by the cholent pot, davening over back-to-front books and taking their chances with the Cossacks, they kind of got weeded out of the gene pool.
69 comments:
Oh, sweetheart. Nobody wants to live in New Zeland.
The leftist/progressive dementia over Jews diminishes in direct proportion to distance. Get out of London and see what the rest of the country thinks.
But now you see how the weak minded can be manipulated by the mob. It isn't about justice for Palestinians. It's about the eradication of you as a race. Nobody really gives a shit about Palestinians. They've had a chance for a state many times.
The last month has been a kick in the head and gut to every Jew I know in this country, so I can't imagine what it's like across the pond, where you can march without police interference by the tens of thousands while chanting for Jewish genoocide ("river to the sea"), and yet if you criticize the flag the marchers carried you're hauled off to the pokey. In the land of no first and second amendments, that's what can happen on a dime.
It's zero wonder that Jews, more than ever, are arming themselves here. Myself included. I've rarely been so happy to have those two amendments.
Again ...
The leftist media cannot even be honest in their reporting.
In Israel-Gaza War, Recycled Images From Past Conflicts Can Undercut True Toll
Above is NYT, PBS "news", The Nation, Democracy Now! Hack Maddow!
“bourgeois jihaderati”
I’m borrowing that phrase.
America used to be the safe place to escape to. Now, not so sure. But we Americans need to push back hard.
I went to Omaha’s best bagel shop yesterday. It is across the street from my Catholic Church and my favorite seafood place. I asked the owner to sell some Israeli lapel pins as I would certainly buy one. Her answer? We don’t get political. Disappointed, but her choice.
Rusty said...
"It isn't about justice for Palestinians. It's about the eradication of you as a race. Nobody really gives a shit about Palestinians. They've had a chance for a state many times."
How many times is this easily-debunked lie going to carry the day? When Einstein called Zionists misled criminal terrorists, was he hoping for the eradication of the Jews? Which one of the shitty offers from those misled criminal terrorists do you think the Palestinians should've been excited to take when those misled criminal terrorists are sitting on all the best parts of their land?
Rusty, you're supposed to be one of the smart ones.
Oh, and "their own land" is supposed to be two parts that aren't even connected - What a bargain!
It seems odd to credit the East Enders who fought off Mosley’s blackshirts, yet also broadly malign the Polish who sacrificed quite a bit to fight off Nazis (as opposed to "only waiting for a Nazi invasion to sanction their existing dreams of domestic Jewish clearance").
Mz. Coren's references to Half-bloods, eugenics and schmendricks of the Steppe, to advance her arguments just doesn't sit right.
David B,
Pins and iron on patches available on Amazon. Mine arrived yesterday. Let's star a trend.
I'm supposed to care what offers the Arabs should or shouldn't have been excited to take? They don't deserve anything but what they're currently getting.
Crack: "How many times is this easily-debunked lie going to carry the day?"
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and the stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." Hamas Covenant, 1988.
And see: https://besacenter.org/palestinian-rejectionism/, https://www.camera.org/article/palestinians-rejected-statehood-three-times-claim-frustration-with-israel/, https://foreigndesknews.com/human-rights/timeline-of-peace-proposals-rejected-by-the-palestinians/, https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/11/seven_times_palestinians_rejected_peace.html
But we know Hamas does not mean what its Covenant said about killing Jews and the October 7th atrocities never happened. Also, Palestinians never rejected offers that would have created a separate state despite documentation of the rejections in the links above. Lies! All lies! /Sarc
Reality is "easily debunked" by wishful thinking (and cognitive dissonance).
Oh! Another lie! He didn't mean this /S:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-calls-for-annihilation-of-israel-promises-to-repeat-attacks/ss-AA1jeoYX
This person doesn't want to go to New Zealand. I heard a Jewish man recently say he doesn't want to go back to Poland.
How any of this means they get to live on Palestinian land, in Palestinian homes, they do not explain.
Two of the very best museums I have seen are the History of the Jews in Poland Museum and the Warsaw Uprising Museum, both in Warsaw. In particular, the Jewish history museum, which covers the last 1000 years or so, not only documents and describes the migrations of the Jewish people in Poland, but also the in Central Europe as well. It also describes how the Jews came to return to Judeah after WWII, including the issues with the British and UN. It's very well done and informative. The Warsaw Uprising Museum is also very visual with lots of individual exhibits used as illustrations. I found the heroic struggles of the Jews described in the Warsaw Uprising Museum to be both heartbreaking and uplifting at the same time. Both are must visits when in Warsaw.
Rusty, you're supposed to be one of the smart ones.
Crack, get back on your meds. You sound more and more loony.
"But there has been zero, and I mean zero, introspection about how the Jewish cultural and educational leaders in Europe and America brought this on themselves."
Anti-semitism and killing Jews is awful, but...
Wow.
And those sluts in short skirts really wanted it.
@SDaly,
A very strong +1 to everything you wrote above at 8:51.
In the DC area, I see signs in front of Reform synagogues that show that many American Jews are fighting the last war. One reads "Our ancestors were refugees too". Another reads "Reproductive Rights is a Jewish Value", in spite of the fact that traditional rabbinic Judaism is as as opposed to abortion as is Catholic case law.
Above all, there is the constant looking to the Right to look for the enemies of the Jewish people (e.g. here), and never to the Left, even after the appalling history of Soviet and now Chinese antisemitism.
Never forget that antisemitism is baked into the Left from its birth. From Proudhon, from Bakunin, and even from Marx, himself the grandson of a Dutch Sephardic rabbi on his mother's side and an Ashkenazi German rabbi on his father's side. Here's Marx's take on his fellow Jews, and it's a doozie.
deepelemblues said...
"I'm supposed to care what offers the Arabs should or shouldn't have been excited to take? They don't deserve anything but what they're currently getting."
That explains October 7 perfectly. The Israelis didn't deserve it, but deserves got nothing to do with it.
hombre said...
"Hamas Covenant, 1988."
Why you insist on treating me like a child, who doesn't understand what Hamas is, puzzles me. Does the fact, you find them reprehensible, mean they can't be wronged? That covenant was written 40 years after this horror started, and you think it should read like our Bill of Rights? Here's what Einstein and other prominent Jews were saying in 1948:
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
- Letter to the New York Times, 1948
Christopher Hitchens - a hero of mine and a Jew - said Zionism is stupid and "a waste of Judaism." Einstein said Zionists are misled criminal terrorists. I have no reason to doubt them. Einstein was there. They tried to get him onboard. He wasn't going to do it. Why? Because the Palestinians were already there, and the only way to remove them is to kill them. Case closed.
the Palestinians should've been excited to take when those misled criminal terrorists are sitting on all the best parts of their land?
Would that be the “best parts” because the Israelis made the desert bloom? Or would it be the “best parts” because 25 miles of valuable Mediterranean coastline and land area considerably larger than Manhattan with a less dense population is actually a shithole?
Crack, I think you’re often an interesting fella, but your head is not wired on securely with this thing.
- Krumhorn
Rusty, you're supposed to be one of the smart ones.
I am.
Notice the slander against the Poles and the French. This is why allying yourself to Jews is always a bad idea. They have no gratitude, your country is always on probation, and every pro-Jewish attitude and action will be forgotten and you wil be slandered as anti-semites.
The Poles and French went to war against Hitler. The Poles lost MILLIONS of people. The french lost more men KIA in 6 weeks on fighting in 1940, then the US army lost in Europe from Dec 1941 to December 1944. But all they get out of it is someone claiming they were just waiting to kill Jews.
Even with the USA, we've gotten the "You didn't do enough" rather then a simple "Thank You Americans" for stopping the Holocaust. Is it any wonder Israel has so few friends in the world?
New Zealand would be better? Fewer Muzzies perhaps, but just as much Prog insanity. Ironic that Eastern Europe might prove to be the most stalwart refuge from soaring anti-semitism.
The Joooz brought this on themselves! Give me a freaking break.
If I were to say that the Palestinians "brought this on themselves by succumbing to Hamas", the person who wrote that would call me a bigot.
The Holocaust happened slowly and then suddenly...
Einstein was there. They tried to get him onboard. He wasn't going to do it. Why? Because the Palestinians were already there, and the only way to remove them is to kill them. Case closed.
Well then.
Those dead Palestinians have been mighty lively for the past 75 years. And randy too - 340,000 in Gaza in 1970, 2 million-plus today, and similar stats for the West Bank.
And still no word about the fact that - for instance - Baghdad, pre-1948, had a larger Jewish population than NYC, and that Jewish population dated back to the Babylonian Exile somewhere around 500-600 BCE, but for some reason, as soon as the UN established Israel, all the Jews of Iraq were booted out or killed. Funny, too, how this pattern was repeated in every single Arab nation: all longtime - like, really longtime -resident Jews kicked out or killed as soon as there was this one place that was required to take them.
Israel has treated the Palestinians - which, we should remember, is a made-up category - a hell of a lot better than that.
War is hell, as others have noted. And as Carla Zaz said on another thread, "Nationhood is subject to forfeiture."
SDaly: "It is stolen Maori land." The Maoris in their turn, stole it from the Morioris.
Wikipedia, as usual, gets it only partly right.
How any of this means they get to live on Palestinian land, in Palestinian homes, they do not explain.
For the same reason that if your landlord sells your apartment building to someone you don’t like, you don’t get to murder him and the new tenant and declare the building “Crackistan.” Pretty hard concept for people who never bought property to understand, I know. But Westerners knew the explanation, before the collectivist woke mob you joined pretended to forget it.
Lands aren’t ethnic. (Except to ayatollahs and imams and other haters of western law who feed you your talking points).
But they can be purchased privately or by a government.
How does it work for woke collectivist justice mobsters like you? Would you go tell the UN about the injustice of what was done to Crackistan and see if you can emotionally manipulate others into sympathizing with your victimology?
Have you decolonized your settler self from the Native American lands that you (or your landlord) have stolen?
Because the Palestinians were already there, and the only way to remove them is to kill them.
Which of course never happened. That's why the Palestinian cause gets so little respect; it's built on lies.
The Jews bought their land in Judea and Samaria from the Arabs who lived there. The UN gave the Palestinians all of Jordan and half of Judea and Samaria. The other half of Judea and Samaria became Israel, which invited its Palestinians to stay, and those who did have full civil and voting rights today. (That's another evil of the pro-Hamas position; if they had their way, all the Israeli Arabs would lose their voting rights in just another Muslim theocracy).
Many Palestinians fled at the behest of the Arab armies that invaded Israel. The Arabs denied those Palestinians their own state for twenty years, and the world didn't care. The Israelis ran their affairs for the next forty years and then the Gazans have had self-rule for the last fifteen. In all that time, their population has done nothing but grow.
Antisemites hate Israel for its restraint, and they comfort themselves by telling these stupid, violent lies about the Israelis to justify the grotesque choice they've made in supporting Hamas.
How any of this means they get to live on Palestinian land, in Palestinian homes, they do not explain.
For the same reason that if your landlord sells your apartment building to someone you don’t like, you don’t get to murder him and the new tenant and declare the building “Crackistan.” Pretty hard concept for people who never bought property to understand, I know. But Westerners knew the explanation, before the collectivist woke mob you joined pretended to forget it.
Lands aren’t ethnic. (Except to ayatollahs and imams and other haters of western law who feed you your talking points).
But they can be purchased privately or by a government.
How does it work for woke collectivist justice mobsters like you? Would you go tell the UN about the injustice of what was done to Crackistan and see if you can emotionally manipulate others into sympathizing with your victimology?
Have you decolonized your settler self from the Native American lands that you (or your landlord) have stolen?
Don’t Equate Anti-Zionism With Anti-Semitism: It is not anti-Semitic to want equal rights for all
Einstein didn’t “call Zionists misled criminal terrorists.” He likely called a militia or some militias who used terrorism or WERE terrorists “misled criminal terrorists.” But he didn’t tar them all with the same broad brush that Crack does because he wasn’t a collectivist simpleton like Crack is. He just didn’t side with the terrorist gangs who made use of terrorism, the way Crack sides with Hamas and Iran.
"The call is coming from inside the house."
Giles Coren is a fella, fellas.
Video: A short history of The Land and The People
It's not about the land. They just want to eliminate the Jews. And, as a people we are aware of our history, the world's history, and what we're watching in front of us today. To some of us, it's not a shock. It's almost expected. And again, to me it's just another live indicator of why Israel needs to be. That the rest of the Arab or Muslim world has never seen fit to help find a place for the Palestinians is not something I can answer for. Only they know their reasons. But Israel has tried to work out some sort of arrangements multiple times. At some point you have to take people at their word when they say it's not the land. They just want to eliminate you. We can sit here comfortably and comment about it. But...if you've never been to Israel, never seen what the Israelis have turned that desert into, see the tech, the arts, and knowledge that they develop and share with the world. It is staggering. A nation this tiny producing for the world what they do is amazing. All the while having nations on every side constantly threatening them, firing rockets into their neighborhoods, sending in terrorists to kill families or bomb restaurants. And all through the world, others wanting their end. My end. My family's end.
No one is cheering the death of innocents in Gaza, though in the Muslim world, they were cheering the beheading of babies, the raping of women, the brutal murder and mutilation of others, and kidnapping of hundreds (to hide behind). It's amazing to me how many people- ignorant people- cheer on Hamas. But it did not start with Israel. And at some point, they had to say...enough. It's time to end this. And all the polling around the US isn't going to change it.
“The Poles lost MILLIONS of people. The french lost more men KIA in 6 weeks on fighting in 1940, then the US army lost in Europe from Dec 1941 to December 1944. But all they get out of it is someone claiming they were just waiting to kill Jews.”
Boo-frickety. There was significant complicity with the Holocaust in occupied France and occupied Poland (Poland being notably anti-Semitic long before Hitler ever showed up). Most of those dead French and Poles would find it bizarre in the extreme that you think they somehow gave their lives to help the Jews. Like saying a Maine farm hand sacrificed his life at Gettysburg specifically to free the slaves. Fuck no.
Quoting Einstein on Israel is like quoting James Watson on race and IQ, or Linus Pauling on Vitamin C: their huge contributions to science earned them Nobel Prizes, but gave them no expertise outside of the specific fields in which they earned them.
As Thomas Aquinas put it, "The argument from authority is the weakest argument, as Boethius says": he then quotes a specific passage of Boethius as his authority on the subject. One of his best jokes, but his point is valid.
A fortiori, if you are going to quote someone as an authority on a subject, make sure you're not quoting a theoretical physicist on politics - or vice versa. Quoting Einstein on Israel and Palestine is as ridiculous as quoting Bill Clinton on quantum mechanics or string theory.
I don't know how you guys can know Roosevelt was so against colonialism during World War II that he undermined Churchill and England's empire, but don't understand why this colonial-era decision still doesn't look any better, to many, today. It's caused nothing but strife right from the beginning, whether it was being reported or not, just like today. The history is apparently different, depending upon who's speaking. Americans definitely don't know. So to run around calling everybody an antisemite, when it's the case we're all learning, isn't just counterproductive but destructive, mean and silly.
The fact so few of you care to use the Internet the way it's supposed to be used says a lot. A lot about how much you want to use your own voices to blot out the world.
Crack: '"Hamas Covenant, 1988." Why you insist on treating me like a child, who doesn't understand what Hamas is, puzzles me.'
It's because I'm hoping you are just ignorant, not ignorant and morally bankrupt.
Also: "Because the Palestinians were already there, and the only way to remove them is (sic.) to kill them. Case closed."
Except they were not killed. They have been demanding "right of return" for 75 years to the 10,000 sq. miles that is Israel instead of settling elsewhere in the 5 million sq. miles controlled by fellow Arabs.
OTOH, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc., are ready to "decolonize" Israel by "annihilating" the Israeli Jews as per October 7th. Hence, moral bankruptcy.
How are there Arabs anywhere but Arabia?
They spread out from Arabia after Mohammed and started killing people and taking their land.
So what right do the Palestinians have to land that their ancestors stole?
All this shit is ridiculous. Israel has been there 75 years. It’s got more of a claim to that land than the Palestinians at this point since they have been there for 75 years.
The Palestinians want to say: we conquered that land in the 8th century fair and square. So it’s still ours.
Might as well say it’s the Pharaoh’s land.
rcocean wrote: "Notice the slander against the Poles and the French...." Antisemitic screed follows. Nothing really warranting a response other than, "What slander?"
However, this also follows: "The Poles and French went to war against Hitler."
Really? Hitler went through Poland and France like a hot knife through butter. The most stubborn initial resistance was, famously, by the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto.
The Vichy regime in France loaded the trains to Auschwitz (figuratively, maybe).
The ignorance among Jew haters is palpable. But then it would be, wouldn't it?
It is not anti-Semitic to want equal rights for all
Which Israeli citizens are denied equal rights and which right is it that’s denied? Answer honestly and stop with your anti-Semitic demonization of Jewish nationality. The West Bank and Gaza have their own governments that aren’t a part of Israel (at their behest) and you know it.
So to run around calling everybody an antisemite, when it's the case we're all learning, isn't just counterproductive but destructive, mean and silly.
Name the local government there willing to implement your preferred “solution” that isn’t anti-Semitic and we’ll stop laughing at your silly-ass, hateful demonization. And tell everyone how many Israelis you want to expel and where you want to send them to. Try to do so without pretending not to be antisemitic.
Not really Darwinian Award level stupidity; far more tragic. And effective, genetically, with Ashkenazi Jews having the highest IQs. Razing Khan, geneticist, notes the somewhat mysterious rise of the Ashkenazi, not knowing how they got so smart.
2 or 3 big pogroms a century, with mostly the smartest leaving successfully to a new place with a generation or three before the next pogrom. Over a 1000 years, that might be fast eugenic selection in the real world.
It is not anti-Semitic to want equal rights for all
Another lie. Everyone can see that your crusade is against Jews owning land in the Middle East or leading a government there.
Charles Krauthammer through PowerLine (from memory):
"Israel is the only nation on earth that occupies the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God as it did 3000 years ago."
So Crack, who's indigenous? And who's disingenuous?
I don't recognize Pro-semite or Anti-semite. Only right and wrong.
Getting bogged down in semantics "Is anti-zionism really anti-semitism?" is a waste of time. Quit doing wrong because you don't want to be called an "-ist". Stop being afraid to speak out against the killing of kids or imperialism because someone will say its "X-ism"
And that goes for Domestic American affairs too. Quit excusing bad behavior or criminal behavior because you don't want to be called an "-ist".
Powerful people use insult labels and straying from "The party line" to enforce conformity. Quit living a world of words and look at what is actually happening. The NYT's just published an illustraction showing 1/4 of all buildings in Northern Gaza have been destroyed or damaged. That the home of 1 million Arabs. Over 9000 civilians have killed by Israel since October 7th. 3600 were kids. Israel just bombed a hospital and a refugee camp because some "Leader" was somewhere in the vicinty.
We Americans are paying for this. People, decent people, need to speak out. That's not what America is about.
Why any Jew would stay in Londonistan is difficult to understand. For 50 years the British government has carried out an explicit effort to import and subsidize multitudes of third-world Muslims, who have now reached critical mass and pretty much do what they want. That they express their Jew-hatred openly and proudly, without fear of private or governmental sanction, tells you that they are doing what the government wants them to do and that nobody will be allowed to interfere with them. I don't know how much clearer the British government can make it. Maybe organize a Kristallnacht or two?
"Oh, sweetheart. Nobody wants to live in New Zeland."
Judging by how many Kiwis are in Australia, you could be excused. The ex-pats here always moan about how much better NZ is, but they never seem to go back. Unless they're deported that is.
An Iraqi Jew's story. I was able to read it just by repeatedly saying "no thanks" to subscription offers, but YMMV.
I misspoke on one of these threads when I said, from memory, that the Jewish population of Baghdad was greater than in NYC pre-1948; it was a greater proportion of the population. One-third, remarkably.
How does it work for woke collectivist justice mobsters like you?
hpudding, Crack is none of these things.
Sigh... There was that one glorious moment when I agreed with you! I hope there will be recurrences!
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was far from an "initial" anything. It happened over three years after the Nazi occupation began, and was actually closing out the period of Judenrat cooperation with the Germans. The famous picture of the little boy in his best clothes being led away to his death was from that episode--he had had a privileged life until that point.
Anti-Semitism had broad appeal across European countries and classes, but then so did Democracy and Christianity to name only a couple of Big Ideas. It played no demonstrable part in how hard, well, or long the armies that lost to the Germans (i.e. all of them) fought and it's foolish to claim otherwise.
Victor Klemperer (decorated Jewish veteran of Kaiser Wilhelm's War) remarked in his Nazi-time journals that he, like other Jewish ex-soldiers, sometimes couldn't help but think, "Well of course the German Army is winning! We always did."
I just thought that's an interesting light on identity and its nuances.
Crack is none of these things.
Unfortunately he sure is doing a hell of a job sounding like them, then.
Confiscating a national incorporation of land purchases due to a belief that a romanticized, supposedly downtrodden collective felt that doing so offended their pride?
Aligning one’s politics with those upholding ivory tower claptrap about “settler colonialism,” etc.?
These Israel-haters have got me watching videos from the Ayn Rand Institute. I see them all as an assault on Western values.
If this food-fight is blurring my vision as all the green-red-black-and-white flag waving hordes melt into a sea of slogans divorced from any rational claims or reality, then you’ll have to forgive me. Yesterday I had to read a clipping on the Palestinian war on “culturally appropriated” Israeli food.
I’m sick of these people and whoever’s making their bed with them. I’ll hold out for them doing a better job of differentiating themselves from each other the minute they start differentiating their sympathies from whomever they felt were helped by the hang-gliding “Freedom Rapists” of a month ago.
As of now though, they’re just a bunch of anti-western propagandists. Every last one.
Or their useful idiots. Same difference.
hpudding said...
"Another lie. Everyone can see that your crusade is against Jews owning land in the Middle East or leading a government there."
Posting the subject matter I find on Ann's blog, and commenting on it, is hardly leading a "crusade," Mr. Extremist. Let's say I was successful, how would that work? You'd look at a quote I found from Naomi Wolf and then start killing Jews? Tell the cops The Crack Emcee made you do it?
Are you going to make me famous?
Jamie said...
"hpudding, Crack is none of these things."
I was recently listening to a lecture by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt on The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy, and they refused to answer anyone who even suggested they wrote their book because they were antisemitic.
I'm certainly considering such a policy.
hpudding said...
"These Israel-haters have got me watching videos from the Ayn Rand Institute. I see them all as an assault on Western values."
Isn't she someone that white guys get into in college and then are supposed to grow out of? Yikes. Didn't she run a cult and start fucking one of her followers or something? Wrote that boring-ass book, that they made into a movie, and everybody laughs at both of them?
You must be troubled.
I’ll hold out for them doing a better job of differentiating themselves from each other the minute they start differentiating their sympathies from whomever they felt were helped by the hang-gliding “Freedom Rapists” of a month ago.
And I'm back to agreeing with you. What a day!
I've been back and forth on this blog all day and can't remember which thread has someone, I think maybe Big Mike, saying that there's "no practical difference" between an anti-Semite and an anti-Zionist. This is where I'm coming down too, and I'm not happy about it.
I've alluded to Gahrie's long-standing (for the age we were then) support for the Palestinians, and how he said herein that he changed his mind because of the intifada. The intifada showed him that the Palestinians, as an entity, didn't want a two-state solution, did want no Jews in "Palestine," and were playing the West.
Since then, the second intifada, continued rejection of offered land with a stated all-or-nothing policy, self-determination in Gaza resulting in self-oppression and self-abjection, continual rocket attacks against civilian targets, and Oct. 7 have led a lot of other people to the same conclusion. We are still being played by an extremist group that doesn't actually value life more than death, does actually subscribe to group guilt and group punishment, doesn't actually believe that "proportionality" is necessary in war, and certainly doesn't actually want to share any part of the Middle East with Jews.
They tell us what they think we want to hear about their intentions. They compose images and stories that comport with their goal - to isolate Israel so it's maximally vulnerable. They recruit young leftists to their side because they know these kids have more passion than judgment and have been inculcated - one might say colonized - with the idea that the West is the evil oppressor and must be destroyed, and - like little secular jihadists - there's an extra benefit if they do it themselves.
I work with quite a lot of Jews and consider a half dozen or so of them to be good friends, close enough to have dined at their table or vice versa.
In the last couple of weeks, 3 of my Jewish friends, knowing I am an uncompromising firearms fanatic, have inquired about going to the range with me and learning how to shoot and maybe shopping for a gun.
For what it's worth...
I support Israel in this war because Israel is much closer to the type of society that I want to exist in this world. But there has been zero, and I mean zero, introspection about how the Jewish cultural and educational leaders in Europe and America brought this on themselves. It may have been the inevitable reaction to the Holocaust, but Jews were at the center of pushing for multi-culturalism, mass immigration, de-centering Whiteness, and all things DEI.
I agree. The "tikkun olam" thing has got to go to the locker room for a spell, refocusing on what it really means to repair the world and whether this tribalist, race-baiting frenzy we have worked ourselves into is helping or making things worse for everyone. (Worse for sure.)
And another thing, I don't know how to bring this up tactfully with my Jewish friends, but I just read an article by Taki that I quite agree with. No one gets bent out of shape when the obvious fact that Greeks and Norwegians control world shipping is noticed or commented upon, or likewise that Arabs have a remarkable amount of influence on the price of oil. Yet when someone breathes a word of the incontrovertible fact that Jews are wildly over-represented in entertainment, the news media, high finance, academia, medicine, law, or government, the ADL/SPLC types are instantly there to inflict as much damage on them as they possibly can.
"Saying we have undue influence is a despicable conspiracy theory, and if you do it, we'll use our influence to get you fired and kicked off the Internet and stripped of your bank accounts!" -- I think that is not a strategy that breeds trust and good fellowship and tolerance.
"I was recently listening to a lecture by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt on The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy, and they refused to answer anyone who even suggested they wrote their book because they were antisemitic."
BOth Mearsheimer and walt are jewish, in whole or in part. But they could be "antisemitic". LOL.
Again it just shows how meaningless the word is, and why its stupid to care about it.
I don’t know what the heck Crack’s talking about, but I don’t have an objection to what Naomi Wolfe said. She’s kind of a crackpot conspiracy theorist though, and she neglects a few issues in her speech (refugee status is only heritable for Palestinians through UNRWA, all other refugees are handled through UNHCR which handles dozens of countries with the same budget, population shifts are common in conflict and resolved WWII - the Arab belligerents should assist with resolving this esp given the influx of Jewish refugees and the fact that most of the actual refugees were belligerents as well as long-dead by now).
The other countries just want to move on with their lives and have lost faith that the Palestinians will ever want to move on with theirs - regardless of where they reside.
The Randroids actually have some great videos. The series I’ve been watching are about basic rule of law issues - the basis of civilization. They like the way that Israel’s existence is so easy to justify based simply on the fact that it’s the state more likely to safeguard the rights of its citizens - majority or minority - than anything the Palestinians have assembled. Freedom House ranks Gaza and the WB around 20 or less - Israel is in the high 70s. If you like rule of law and freedom then Israel’s your destination. If you like vengeance then it’s not where you should go - maybe go to Palestine instead.
This is part of the issue also - the Jews had very effectively organized civil society associations prior to statehood; the Palestinians still can’t assemble any kind of oversight worth mentioning. Arafat made enough out of their cause to become a billionaire. Hamas said they have no responsibility to Gazans - and that the UN can take care of them. This while their leaders impose a war on them remotely from across the peninsula in luxury Gulf hotels. But that’s ok; if this episode made you more sympathetic to them then the goal of this nauseating leadership of their has been achieved.
I’m watching a video now on the polling in Gaza from before the conflict and they rightly blamed Hamas for how impoverished their misrule made them even with the blockades enforced by Egypt and Israel.
The Muslim Brotherhood assassinated Sadat. Egypt will not support Hamas. (Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood). Only the Qataris and the Iranians interloping into the region’s issues and worsening them for their own advantage.
rcocean: "Over 9000 civilians have [been] killed by Israel since October 7th. 3600 were kids. Israel just bombed a hospital and a refugee camp because some "Leader" was somewhere in the vicinty (sic.)."
And you "know" this because the Hamas controlled Palestinian Ministry Of Health told select leftmedia who told you. Right?
Is that the same as journalists from all over the world having access to eyewitnesses and victims from all over the world in the wake of October 7th?
Say, do you find Hamas complicit in the number of casualties, however many, in Gaza? How about the Arab nations who have refused Palestinian refugees?
Jamie said...
"Saying that there's "no practical difference" between an anti-Semite and an anti-Zionist. This is where I'm coming down too, and I'm not happy about it."
You shouldn't be. It's not correct or a healthy way to think.
"I've alluded to Gahrie's long-standing (for the age we were then) support for the Palestinians, and how he said herein that he changed his mind because of the intifada. The intifada showed him that the Palestinians, as an entity, didn't want a two-state solution, did want no Jews in "Palestine," and were playing the West."
I see everyone expecting reasonableness from a terrorized people, being offered a "deal" by the people who have been illegally, and immorally killing them and taking their land - for decades. Just like the Jews after World War II, they're doing the best they can, under fucked-up circumstances. The same level of empathy should be shown. Instead, everyone wants to portray them as insane - which is another sin. It's fucked up.
"We are still being played by an extremist group that doesn't actually value life more than death, does actually subscribe to group guilt and group punishment, doesn't actually believe that "proportionality" is necessary in war, and certainly doesn't actually want to share any part of the Middle East with Jews."
And absolutely no one on this planet, after what they've been through, can think of a single reason why they should.
"They recruit young leftists to their side because they know these kids have more passion than judgment,...."
Finklestein, Mearshiemer, Wolf, etc., are not young leftists and neither am I. None of us hate Western Civilization, or think the United States is the worst thing in the world. But we all know a scam when we see one. And we understand human nature.
hombre said...
"And you "know" this because the Hamas controlled Palestinian Ministry Of Health told select leftmedia who told you. Right?"
How do you guys live with this level of paranoia?
Jamie,
What do you think of this?
One can simultaneously support both the Israeli people and the Palestinian people and a peaceful two-state solution while conceding that Hamas has been a terrible leader for the Palestinian cause and peace...just as Netanyahu has been a terrible leader for Israel.
A holistic view of the world is better than a simplistic one.
Rich said...
"One can simultaneously support both the Israeli people and the Palestinian people and a peaceful two-state solution while conceding that Hamas has been a terrible leader for the Palestinian cause and peace...just as Netanyahu has been a terrible leader for Israel.
A holistic view of the world is better than a simplistic one."
But you ARE offering the simplistic one. Netanyahu has been the terrible leader for Israel who "pied-pipered" Hamas into Palestinian leadership. If that's true - and it is - what incentive do the Palestinian people have to take the blame for anyone, or anything, or support a two state solution with anyone? None. Everyone around them is a crook, trying to take advantage of them. The world should be protecting them, and not trying to figure out how to accommodate their attackers.
"The inward-looking, Yiddish-speaking schmendricks of the Steppe, who preferred to sit by the cholent pot, davening over back-to-front books and taking their chances with the Cossacks . . ."
It's sad how writing about fear of antisemitism turned into disparaging of Orthodox Jews.
SDaly said...
"Just saw the World Jewish Congress ad on the tearing down of hostage posters. It was infuriating and is a perfect example of what I wrote originally above."
I don't know why anyone's putting up posters in the United States. They're not here. It's just a provocation. And then people get mad because other people get provoked. Or they get mad because other people don't want to be provoked.
I don't agree with taking down peoples posters, but I don't exactly agree with people putting them up, either.
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