A coalition of intellectual catastrophists on the American right is trying to convince people... that the country is on the verge of collapse. Some catastrophists take it a step further and suggest that officials might contemplate overthrowing liberal democracy in favor of revolutionary regime change or even imposing a right-wing dictatorship on the country.... If Mr. Trump manages to win the presidency again in 2024, many of these intellectual catastrophists could be ready and willing to justify deeds that could well bring American liberal democracy to its knees.
Who's the catastrophist here? The writer of this article or the people he's writing about?
Who is he writing about?
The Claremont Catastrophists/Probably the best-known faction of catastrophists and the one with the most direct connection to Republican politics is led by Michael Anton and others with ties to the Claremont Institute, a right-wing think tank in California. Mr. Anton’s notorious Claremont Review of Books essay in September 2016 called the contest between Mr. Trump and Hillary Clinton “The Flight 93 Election.”...
The Christian Reverse Revolutionaries..., Among the most extreme catastrophists writing in this vein is Stephen Wolfe, whose book “The Case for Christian Nationalism” calls for a “just revolution” against America’s “gynocracy” (rule by women) that emasculates men, persuading them to affirm “feminine virtues, such as empathy, fairness and equality.” In its place, Mr. Wolfe proposes the installation of a “Christian prince,” or a form of “theocratic Caesarism.”...
The Bronze Age Pervert and the Nietzschean Fringe.... Costin Alamariu, the person generally understood to be writing under the pseudonym Bronze Age Pervert. He self-published a book in 2018, “Bronze Age Mindset,” which follows Friedrich Nietzsche and other authors beloved by the European far right in proclaiming that Western civilization itself is on the verge of collapse, its greatest achievements far in the past, its present a “garbage world” in an advanced state of decay.... Mr. Alamariu proposes breeding great men of strength who model themselves on pirates....
Have you been following — or at least keeping track of — these right-wing writers?
By the way, writers have been writing that the end times are upon us for much longer than the United States has existed. And, of course, there are catastrophists on the left. I'd like to see a corresponding NYT article outlining them too.
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I'll read anything by Anton when he crosses my path.
I've never heard of Wolfe, although certain Christians think we were meant to live under a monarchy. It's not a radical proposition, especially since the odds of this happening in America are nil.
I haven't heard a word from BAP since I quit twitter. He has a small reach. But yes, he is the most dangerous one on the list.
When will the NYTimes help us understand left-wing extremism?
"A coalition of intellectual catastrophists on the American right is trying to convince people... that the country is on the verge of collapse."
A coalition of intellectual catastrophists on the American left is trying to convince people ... that the world is on the verge of CO2 driven climate collapse. Armageddon even.
Leftist extremism is “Kill the Jews”.
They don’t need a special article to cover it.
Anyone who thinks a nation of 300+ million people are going to be taken over by anything are out of their fucking minds.
I'll stand by my review of BAP's Mindset on my blog, here:
https://trotskyschildren.blogspot.com/2020/08/book-review-bronze-age-mindset.html
Anton is da' Man.
I've read _The Flight 93 Election_ and generally agreed with it, never heard of this Stephen Wolfe, and have heard of The Bronze Age Pervert, can't recall if I have read anything by him. As usual, the left projects.
now do AnteFa!
now do BLM!
now do global climatists!
now do Anything on the left.. ANY THING, at ALL
Lots of resistance to "Christian Nationalism" among sensible evangelicals. But the people pushing for a theocracy of sorts are the Gaia worshipers, and they have a lot more traction than the CN advocates.
This reminds me of Tom Wolfe's comment that the dark night of Fascism is always descending in the United States and yet only lands in Europe.
Blind projection at work.
Have you been to a major city lately? Fortunately only a few for me but they are a combination of catastrophe arrived, failed leftie policy but heaps of leftie arrogance and one of those bombs that kills all the people and leaves the building standing…
…think I’m lying. These places will soon be begging for more money to ‘fix’ the problems…
Darn
I was hoping you had discovered what the catastrophes were.
Why would anyone believe that world governments might use emergency powers to force their citizens to remain at home and avoid social contact with anyone for their own protection while pressuring social media to censor alternative discussion on the subject?
Silly catastrophists.
Oh good lord. I'm daily inundated with claims from leftist friends as well as media that Democracy Is On The Brink. Maybe the NYT can't see the hypocrisy. Or maybe their business model doesn't allow them to acknowledge it.
.
AS si recent custom here it is important to distinguish these far right extremists from a few thousand square feet from the Republicans running the country...How can you not see this?
..also yes, the fire hose of hypocrisy spewing from NYT here is a sight to behold.
11/5/23, 5:16 AM
Blogger MadisonMan said...
When will the NYTimes help us understand left-wing extremism?
11/5/23, 5:19 AM
Left-wing extremism is an oxymoron. There's no such thing. Never mind antifa, Burn, Loot and Murder, Nazi-scum demonstrators, pro-crime DAs, anti-gun criminal-enthusiasts, open border Democrats, etc. Those people don't exist, don't you know! Ignore your lying eyes, everything's fine.
I have never heard of any of these people. Maybe now I'll have to check out Anton, on the strength of Kate's comment...
BAP sounds like the guy who hosts a "bull session" (I'm sure they don't call it that any more, in the gynocracy and all!) in his dorm room, which he inhabits for the entirety of college, then discovers afterward that he... has peaked.
I do keep seeing the ‘Trump equals Dictatorship’ becoming more prevalent. This is a good fantasy to place in the mind of leftists as they see government above all. The right wing ‘catastrophists’ (what a word!) want to overthrow any government, especially one which allow Trump to be a dictator. Ironically, it’s a leftist government that reaches towards dictatorship, controlling the rights of the people.
"A coalition of intellectual catastrophists on the American right is trying to convince people... that the country is on the verge of collapse."
And they are not wrong.
typing talker,
Give up your rights and we'll make everything better.
Many of the BLM people said that America was already a catastrophe for black people and maybe lots of others.
"I'd like to see a corresponding NYT article outlining them too."
Good luck with that. NYT doesn't criticize its own. No enemies on the left, right?
Furthermore, J6 revealed that America's lefties are hysterical catastrophists--all of them. It would be too embarrassing to take a hard look at that demonstration that became trespassing that became a small riot. Can you believe that that gun-happy Capitol cop who killed Ashli Babbitt wasn't fired or even disciplined? One rule for them, another rule for us.
Thank goodness nobody is pushing the catastrophic trope the America is irredeemably racist!
"....intellectual catastrophists blah blah American right blah blah blah collapse blah blah catastrophists blah blah blah overthrowing liberal democracy blah blah revolutionary regime change blah blah imposing a right-wing dictatorship ...."
Geez, that's the most awful writing style, like the guy's writing with a case of the vapors. Or is it Chat A.I.? Who would read it? I've been discovering that the propaganda that gets spooned out by the metric yard all seems to want the reader to align his thinking before he reads the piece. It's a barrage of the senses, only using words.
I mean sure the southern border is completely open in a way that it has not been in decades, with half the world streaming through, including from some of the most terrorist spawning countries in the world.
And yes, federal spending went from long-term unsustainable to potentially short-term disastrous in about three short years.
And we only just saw the largest massacre of Jews since 1945.
And yes, we are seeing large scale combined arms warfare on the European continent, again for the first time since 1945.
Here at home every one of the armed services other than the US Marine Corps is missing its recruitment targets by catastrophic margins.
The United States Navy is short of ships and submarines, even compared to the enervated budget set by the Biden maladministration. And the ships and submarines that we do have are terribly unavailable due to deferred maintenance. That is mostly the product of our rotted industrial base.
Meanwhile, the Chinese navy is growing at a rapid rate, and adding new long-range capabilities even quicker.
But other than all that, everything is going fine, and there’s nothing to worry about. As long as uncle Joe gets his 21 hours a day of sleep, everything will be fine.
The lack of self-awareness of the "journalists", who pour out an endless stream of this type of article day after day after day, never ceases to amaze me. It can't be real, can it? Are they really that stupid or embubbled? Or have they fully embraced the role of regime propagandists?
Oh sorry, I forgot to mention that yesterday 100,000 members of the Democrat coalition protest in Washington DC because they are very upset that Joe Biden will not allow Hamas to make the Levant fully Judenrein. Yet.
I believe any objects called mirrors in the NYT universe are simple, non-reflective panes of glass.
What about the Deplorables? The Bitter Clingers? Hey, smarty pants, we're over here!
Is this article an extension of the "Republicans Pounce!" headline we get when Democrats screw up?
Rather than talk about the cities, institutions, brands and agencies destroyed by Progressives, talk about the conservative response.
I'm not familiar with any of the catastrophists mentioned, but am inclined to let them have a go at propping up our country. We are in little danger of getting a Christian Prince or a bunch of manly pirates.
The last three years has pretty much validated that Flight 93 analysis.
Surprised that David Begley was not listed as 75% of his posts make similar claims.
Firstly, I agree with Crack Emcee, we are a nation of over 300 million souls, and so, we will probably split along societal fault lines. By the by, I don’t really read the NYT, so has there been any meaningful reporting of the 300,000 thousand or so insurrectionists currently assaulting the White House?
Leftists are a joke.
All of them. Esp anyone who writes for the joke NYT.
The left are A-OK with illegals pouring across the Texas border. The corrupt Biden administration in conjunction with Soros funding - are creating the mess.
It's no coincidence that the illegal crossings are all in Texas.
When I want to understand a group, having its opposition present what the group thinks is usually the very last action I would take, if I would bother at all. Next can we have Hamas explain the Israeli people's history, and maybe get Putin to describe the aspirations of Ukrainians, so that we can "understand" them, too?
Let us review the situation:
1. The country is amassing an unsustainable level of debt. 95% of the elected officials do not have any issue with this. The likely nominees for the presidency refuse to address the key drivers the debt.
2. Most cultural institutions have been turned over to people who actively hate Western Civilization and are on a mission to destroy it. Instead they favor a return to a society dominated by tribalism - an outlook that will condemn men to lives of economic, spiritual, and intellectual poverty.
3. One political party is becoming increasingly dedicated to overthrowing the constitutional order to keep itself itself in power. This is being done by trying to undo the compromises that made the ratification of the Constitution possible, the elimination of federalism, and the eroding of Constitutional rights. The other party is likely to nominate a buffoon who as recently as December of 2022 called for “termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution” to restore him to the presidency.
4. One political party is firmly committed to destroying the economy by eliminating the lifeblood of the country, fossil fuels, in a futile attempt to control the climate.
5. One political party is about to renominate a a dishonest, incompetent dementia patient. The other party is likely to nominate a crazy narcissist who’s sole purpose for running is to salve his wounded ego. 68% of the country would prefer to have other choices but one party thinks the dementia patient is the only way to beat the crazy guy and the other party appears to be suffering from mass psychosis.
Yes, we are totally screwed and most people do not seem to care.
What's the score, 40 what-abouts to 3 other?
This is a very strange list. Claremont Review swings far less right-wing than its intellectual counterpart, the New York Review of Books, swings left-wing. NYRB were Stalinists for a lot longer than people realize and are deeply committed to overturning our political system, more than anyone named in this article.
With the exception of Rod Dreher, who changes religions and obsessions pretty frequently, there aren't many recognizable political movement people who fail to respect the separation of church and state, no matter how they choose to worship and conduct their private lives, and I'm not even sure he deserves to be characterized this way. I recognize the other names, but unless you spent all day on Twitter some years ago, they're barely marginal.
I suspect this list excludes some more prominent figures because those people reside at the weird mash-up of libertarianism and leftism that Matt Taibi describes so well. I refer to them as leftitarians. These people do impact both political parties, both for the worse. But it doesn't serve the Times' agenda to notice that Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders are cut from the same divisive cloth. Anarcho-capitalists and anarcho-communists shop at the same mall.
And they're both funded by Iran. And by extension, China and Russia. It's weirdo disinformation alley.
There's really little point in even saying it, but obviously this article wins the rubber-glue award of the week. As of Sunday. On a week starting on Sunday.
The most currently consequential conservative writer, by electoral strength, subscription size, and intellectual bent, if we're going to abide by the Times' weird editorial playdough, is Marvin Olansky. And I bet this dweeb doesn't even know who he is or why he's important. And complex. But I guess he didn't room with him in college.
Bob Boyd: yes.
A pluralist society will have the full range of opinions from far left to far right and everything in between. The real danger is from the people who can’t abide the existence of opinions dramatically different from theirs. Not The Claremont Institute or the BAP (whoever he is), but the people like this author sounding the alarm about them.
Anyone who thinks a nation of 300+ million people are going to be taken over by anything are out of their fucking minds.
But the people taking over don't have to be anything close to a majority. They just have to be able to control the majority.
Look what we* all just did: even after everyone knew that COVID was unlikely to kill even the most vulnerable - the elderly, obese, or diabetic - we stayed home in our millions, wore useless masks in public, lined up to get a vaccine and subsequent boosters that didn't stop us from getting COVID, didn't prevent us from transmitting COVID, and only maybe might reduce the severity of the COVID we all ended up getting. By about August 2020 if not earlier, it was clear that kids could be in school, restaurants didn't have to cobble together silly plexiglass shields, and masks were for show. But we all kept on Following The Science and shunning and shaming anyone who questioned It.
So - all it took was a really bad flu season.
I am not saying COVID was nothing. I am saying that it was not the black plague. It wasn't even hantavirus (if that could be transmitted human to human).
* Yes, I know many, including many here, resisted. But we all saw how all of public society was transformed, for months and even years.
"Once a thinker begins to conceive of politics as a pitched battle between the righteous and those who seek the country’s outright annihilation, you can become a killing machine."
If you were to show my liberal friends the websites I read, I'm sure they would think that I am fully immersed in the farthest fringe of the great right-wing conspiracy. And yet, except for Michael Anton, I haven't heard of any of these guys or the movements they supposedly represent. The only time I ever hear about Christian Nationalism is when the left tries to warn me against it. On the other hand, BLM openly advocates for the complete overthrow of the American system of government and economics and they are well supported by the liberals in America. So who's really preaching catastrophe? As far as Trump, or any other scary Republican, going fascist, they will do it by using the tools being forged by the Democrats and the deep state.
Did not read the whole article, and agree with many of the comments about the left. The lack of negative reaction to the riots in 2000 after G. Floyd's death (and lack of reaction is understatement) is in many ways more worrisome than anything this writer opines on. On the other hand (there is always another hand), during the pandemic I read The Strange Death of Liberal England by G. Dangerfield. A very interesting, very readable history of England from 1910 to July 1914. The gist of the first part is that because of their opposition to giving up Ireland, the Tory Party was coming close to open rebellion against Parliament, which was controlled by the Liberal Party. The Tories were conniving with the military to obtruct Parliament's will in Ireland, including buying guns in Europe and shipping those to Irish Protestants. The country was approaching Civil War. Only the incident in Sarajevo pulled the country together again. I do think an analogy can be made to some in the Republican Party, who appear willing to jettison the current approximation to democracy in exchange for achieving thier policy goals.
Maybe this is a stretch, but in light of recent events, when I hear "catastrophe," the Arabic word Nakba comes to mind. Nakba is the term that Arabs/Muslims use to describe the events of 1948, when the State of Israel was established and survived a coordinated military attack by all of its Arab/Muslim neighbors. It's their analog of Holocaust.
Too much of a stretch to think that NYT intends to conflate "extreme right wingers" with the establishment of Israel, and especially what it is doing to its sworn enemies?
Catastrophist is to catastrophe as paranoia is to reality.
"Have you been following — or at least keeping track of — these right-wing writers?"
Claremont, yes, of course. As a group, they are the best of the right. But they differ among themselves. Anton is the most pessimistic of the bunch.
The others, no. And I try to keep track of the right. But no. I don't mean to be presumptuous, but if they don't influence me, if I dont even know them, in the middle of the right as I'd like to think, how "influential" can they be? Or, God forbid, are we dealing here with yet another instance of prog projection and narrative spin?
Did any of these folks give $500,000,000 to Iran? No? Then what are we talking about. Fix your party, Democrats.
The Republicans just chose a House Speaker who believes in a 6,000-year-old Earth. If conservatism had more popular ideas it would be more popular.
It's a Pro-Choice, Pro-Choice, Pro-Choice, Pro-Choice ethical religion and party. That said, all's fair in lust and abortion.
Funny to hear the left whine about theocracy in America. The left and Obama support Iranian Religious Islamic supremacist theocracy in Iran. An Islamic theocracy that is NOT supported by a vast majority of people in Iran.
The left are OK with using Soviet-style corruption to destroy their political enemies.
AMDG -
100% accurate.
Leftwing media: "The GOP are all extremists!"
Fuck off, white left media Soviets.
Tom Cotton for President.
--- a monarchy. It's not a radical proposition, especially since the odds of this happening in America are nil. [Kate]
King For Life FDR? He certainly had no qualms about it. Stacking the Supreme Court to end their oversight function limiting him? Eager to do it.
Yes, we then amended the Constitution. But those types are all around, still. They think they have the great answers to everything. Which usually means, they rule over all. And they couldn't care less about Constitutional limitations except insofar as they have to overcome them.
That is what the Left does best- project its worst faults onto its opposition.
What Linker is doing here is trying to justify the means being used to keep the Republicans from winning next year.
"trying to convince people... that the country is on the verge of collapse"
Wait, I thought "our democracy" IS on the verge of collapse, with insurrectionists running rampant and trying to suppress votes, and with a radical Supreme Court instituting a racist and sexist regime, and with books being banned all over the place, and with trans kids being denied care committing suicide, and with police crushing black necks every day, and . . .
Has the prog line changed? Why didn't anyone tell me?
Thanks for blogging this article, which I would have otherwise missed. Many great comments, but AMDG's said it best.
The best R/C columnist/writer is Andrew Ferguson, IMO.
MadisonMan said...
When will the NYTimes help us understand left-wing extremism?
A/K/A fascism
John Henry
BothSidesNow at 826 - Nice post.
"I do think an analogy can be made to some in the Republican Party, who appear willing to jettison the current approximation to democracy in exchange for achieving thier policy goals."
And are eager to support a candidate who made a bumbling but sincere attempt to jettison democracy before all of our eyes.
The headline is hyperbolic, but close. The rest? Lefty bollocks.
Lefty/Dems do not seek the annihilation of the country, merely destabilization through useful idiots - like NYT readers. It's a form of cultural (Gramscian) Marxism. Alfred Pennyworth described the phenomenon well: "Some men just want to watch the world burn." The goal isn't actually Marxism, just burning.
Erosion of the First, Second, Fourth and Eighth Amendments, borders open to hordes including terrorists, gangbangers, illiterates, human and drug traffickers, etc., energy dependence, burgeoning antisemitism, inflation, arming the Taliban, nuclear Iran, poking the nuclear Russian bear, selective political prosecution, non-prosecution, defunded police, corrupt DOJ/FBI, a grifting POTUS, election rigging, mutilating children, etc., etc.
What could go wrong?
The Crack emcee said "Anyone who thinks a nation of 300+ million people are going to be taken over by anything are out of their fucking minds." The Chinese population in the 40s was considerably more than 300+ million and the CCP managed to do it.
Look no further than 400,000 seventh-century invaders in London when you talk about Western collapse.
I defy anyone to tell me how things have gotten better in the past thirty years, specifically the past three.
All you libs out there; are you really happy with how things are going?
Do you really like having your sons and daughters brainwashed in college and paying $60k/year for the privilege?
Do you like seeing the prices of everything heading nowhere but up?
Are you tired of your government, who is supposed to represent YOU, pissing your money away all over the world...everywhere but here at home?
And when they do spend money at home, it's on illegal aliens and child mutilation, and not fixing potholes?
Yeah, thinks are peachy...
I wish the democrats would fix their party. The republicans, what's left of them, need to bring their party back from the lala land of "ratings", "branding", and "messaging" and become a party that does something. Then we would have 2 parties again and the democrats would have to straighten up.
The successes of Trumps first term, until they were steered straight into an iceberg, were based completely on yet another round of tax cuts for the better off.
Can he really do that again? I suppose the answer here will be yes of course cut more taxes on the poor suffering rich (or just defund the IRS), because the only good government is a dead government. I suppose if you're from backwoods Alabama that makes sense.
Have I been following them? No. Conservative Intellectuals are even worse then leftwing ones. First, many of them are just bought-off grifters, pushing the glories of "Free Enterprise" or wanking on about "The CHinese menance" or such nonsense to help the Defense Industry.
Second, Its amazing how so many of them have flipped from being against "Cancel culture" to "Fire all those Pro-Palestinian supporters" in the wink of any eye. Again, bought off.
Third, most of them just gas on about absosutely nothing - at great length. They indulge in the rightwing weakness of running away from the real world to talk about grand principles and engage in political theology.
For example, lets not talk about the left has captured the Judiciary and how we can stop the Left from using it as a weapon to change society, instead lets bloviate about the "the Constitution" and the "Founding fathers being skeptical of Democracy" and "We're a republic - not a Democracy". They have an absurd focus on Words, and ignoring reality of 2023.
That many of these Conservative intellectuals are Nevertrumpers and were OK with Biden or Hillary getting elected just shows how worthless they are.
The thing to remember in all of these handwringing "Threat to Democracy" articles is that "Democracy" = "the Democratic Party" and their hold on power. No more, no less.
One thing that's amazed me is how many of the Conservative Pundits and intellectuals who usually are so detached from real life and diffident and milk-toast about American politics, suddenly became engergized and fully engaged on October 7th.
Rod Dreher is a perfect example. Once Hamas attacked, Rod stopped eating oysters and bloviating about "The Benidict Option" and sent out a blizzard of tweets about the Muslim menance and his love for Israel. To hell with all that "Love that neighbor" stuff, it was time to kill some A-rabs yee-haw. The antisemites are taking over - its Hitler all over again!
And suddenly the college adminstrators who Rod said were bad guys for firing conservatives, were falling down on their job for not firing enough Hamas supporters.
And that's conservative intellectualism. Rod Dreher. No wonder its irrelevant.
Who needs a Bronze Age Pervert (paraphrasing the old Dick Clark American Bandstand rating his song "has got a beat and you can dance to it")--some nom de plume I never heard of.
Yup, you don't need a Bronze Age Pervert when you've got Bidenesque Political Perverts of some 57 or more varieties infesting Slow Joe's administration. Ya gotcha yer drag queens, yer luggage stealers, yer male admirals in a dress, and yer real admirals focused on fighting climate change instead of the dreaded ChiComm Menace!
The successes of Trumps first term, until they were steered straight into an iceberg, were based completely on yet another round of tax cuts for the better off.
No, it was based on such things as cancelling two regulations for each new one. controlling the border. Identifying the Chinese stealing technical info. And, of course, no wars.
Blogger I stand w Isreal. Leftists, Mullahs, Hamas-Palistinian terrorists can suck it said...
Funny to hear the left whine about theocracy in America. The left and Obama support Iranian Religious Islamic supremacist theocracy in Iran. An Islamic theocracy that is NOT supported by a vast majority of people in Iran.
Excellent point.
"King For Life FDR?"
That would be Dictator for Life FDR. The American people are definitely vulnerable to the lure of a dictator.
A monarch is anointed by God, which is why some religious people find the idea persuasive. It's also why political dynasties cause many people to squirm.
"The successes of Trumps first term, until they were steered straight into an iceberg, were based completely on yet another round of tax cuts for the better off.
No, it was based on such things as cancelling two regulations for each new one. controlling the border. Identifying the Chinese stealing technical info. And, of course, no wars."
I was thinking of the economic successes of Trump's 1st 3 years. Only your last point is relevant to the economy over that period.
Your points concern his rhetorical branding successes, which are a matter of opinion. You forgot to add capturing the supreme court for the anti-arbortion crowd.
“Anyone who thinks a nation of 300+ million people are going to be taken over by anything are out of their fucking minds.”
Russia was taken over by the Soviets, China was taken over by Mao, and the US was almost taken over by a group of people who walked into the Capitol building.
jim @ 4:47
Your turn.
What has Biden done to improve the prosperity and safety of the American people? Why are the American people funding proxy wars we don't want and didn't have prior to 2020?
Wolfe is weird and irrelevant. BAP is weird and dangerous, not in himself but in that a younger member of a political dynasty could end up a fan. It feels like the whole point of the piece is to lump Claremont in with them.
If it's NYT, it's propaganda... and in this case it's pretty transparent propaganda.
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