११ ऑक्टोबर, २०२३
"Every Hamas member is a dead man. Hamas is ISIS, and we will crush and eliminate it just as the world crushed and eliminated ISIS."
Said Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in "Israel’s New Unity Government Pledges to ‘Crush’ Hamas
After forming a wartime cabinet, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and a top rival, Benny Gantz, presented a united front to the Israeli people. Mr. Netanyahu also detailed more of the atrocities he said Hamas terrorists had committed" (NYT).
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Go Team Israel!
Excellent!
That's a fine objective but at what cost? I hope the justified anger doesn't drive people into meat-grinder traps. That may be exactly what Hamas has wanted all along; thus a ground war in Gaza might not be the best choice. Certainly it should be preceded by Grozny-level "urban renewal."
"we will crush and eliminate it just as the world crushed and eliminated ISIS."
ISIL/Daesh is still around, but I get his point.
Word of caution... parts of the world may have crushed and eliminated ISIS, but they didn't do so by declaring every ISIS member a dead man. Indeed, there has been quite a bit of analysis and interviews with former members that some found their way to ISIS because it was a place to be and a way out of where ever they were. Kill who you need to kill when it is clear they need to be engaged. While doing so, show your compassion in the way the enemy did not, so that everyone understands the difference. Otherwise, you play into the arguments of the progressives that hate you.
Yada, yada, yada. It's getting old, Buddy. You knew when you moved in, and took people's land, you were going to have a fight because people consider their land precious. But, you did it anyway, and now you're talking shit, because it doesn't look like they're gonna give up, and Israelis still look like assholes. Only you think a Jew from Brooklyn has more right to live on that land than the Palestinians who were born there. That makes you a mental disorder with a machine gun. How at it.
After this weekend, I have a feeling they might get you before you get them.
Is there still time for Gazans to run down to the court house to change their party affiliation?
Biden confirmed the baby beheadings. He said he saw the films. Said he never imagined such a thing were possible. A big FUCK YOU to all Hamas apologists.
"Every Hamas member is a dead man. Hamas is ISIS"
Still not willing to name the problem for what it is: Hamas = Gaza. Hamas = Islam. Killing "Hamas" doesn't solve the problem. pretending that it does is to perpetuate an illusion.
I'm all for zeroing out Hamas..
If it takes turning the Gaza to a parking lot, so be it.
Opinion pieces don't seem to be able to propose a way forward for Gaza/Israel. I really hope that this is because of a changed reality which opinion writers haven't absorbed and that there is a way forward.
One thing I think is that moral monsters like the 1500 Hamas terrorists who attacked babies and burned elderly women don't come out of nowhere. They must have been slowly brutalized by committing similar though lesser acts somewhere, most likely in Gaza against those who disagreed with Hamas. Those Palestinians who have been Hamas targets won't want Hamas back, including the PA. And we can also understand that no Arab countries wants the Palestinians in their own territories. This is going to matter.
Another point is that social media seems to have undone Hamas - it's their own gloating over their own horrors - horrors videoed and posted by them and liked thousands of times by Gaza citizens that is fueling outrage. Jews all over the world are hearing from family members in Israel about lost relatives and are combing with those relatives through these Hamas horror videos looking for a glimpse of lost family members. This is true of American Jews, even CNN media stars. It turns out they have many Israeli relatives and they have been deeply affected. What this will mean I cannot say but it won't mean business as usual in a few days.
Then there's citizens of other countries who were murdered by Hamas. There were many East Asians who were workers in the avocado orchards near the music festival and many others who were at the festival. Those countries understand better than we do how dreadful it was that a peace festival was attacked and their citizens killed because it was their traditions about peace and meditation and trances which were being disseminated at the festival. Hamas, of course, is just disregarding Thailand which lost 22 citizens and Nepal which lost 10 and all the others. Hamas is busy gathering support at Harvard and has nothing to say to these other countries. "Yeah, we murdered your people, and so what." That will prove to be a mistake but, after all, what can they say? "Your people weren't Jews but they were pagans and we hate them as much - and you. Check out our charter. Your turn is coming."
Good!
What president was that who eliminated ISIS?
And that’s exactly what needs to be done.
The whole world can now finally see who are the Good Guys and who are the Bad Guys.
The new Nazis are Hamas. I don’t think even the Nazis beheaded babies.
Have World actually crushed ISIS?
The Amalekites have been identified again.
Does Israel have the capability to destroy Hamas? And by capability, I mean the ability to carry it out without becoming a pariah state in the world? Most of the powerful nations are backing Israel now in their response, but there is roughly 2 million Palestinians in Gaza. The Palestinian death toll can only get so high before Israel starts losing support for it's actions. I absolutely expect Hamas to place and hide themselves in and around civilians in Gaza both as a strategy and partly because there is only so much room in Gaza and there is 2 million people there. Israel pointing out that strategy only extends that tolerable level of Palestinian deaths so far. Israel also has to expect that there is a lot press out there that will, if not intentionally inflate, uncritically accept numbers from any Palestinian source for the number of Palestinians dead and wounded.
The big lie, an Crack Emcee is repeating it, is that the Jews stole the land that makes up Israel,
This map is the population of the area in 1947- with Jewish settlements scattered all over.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Map_of_Jewish_settlements_in_Palestine_in_1947.png?20061218161332
In 1947 before the Israeli State declared independence, that area consisted of 630,000 Jews, 1,324,000 non-Jews- which includes Christians and Druze.
After being invaded by surrounding Arab states in an effort to drive all Jews into the sea, the population of the new Jewish state, in the area shown in this armistice map:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/49lines.gif
Population of that area in 1948: 716,700 Jews, 156,000 non-Jews. So that's 1,168,000 non-Jews living in teh West Bank abd Gaza strip areas- many of whom alreday lived there before the invasion. Invasion? Oh yes, From the US State Department:
On the eve of May 14, the Arabs launched an air attack on Tel Aviv, which the Israelis resisted. This action was followed by the invasion of the former Palestinian mandate by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command. 5 nations invading, telling the Arabs already living there- "Leave! And after we are victorious- you can return and have everything. (They were, of course, lying about that, but whatever.) They lost. Despite outnumbering the fledgling Israeli army by a huge amount. They lost big time.
Now, what became of the land in the new Israeli state that was occupied by Arabs who remained? Well, golly gee, it stayed their property. What happened to the property of those who fled? And by the way, fled means they abandoned their property- and abandoned property isn't stolen by anyone. Well, it was claimed, swallowed up by others. Too bad, so sad, you picked the losing side, and abandoned your property hoping to come back and enlarge it with property confiscated/stolen from you former Jewish neighbor. I'm sure most of it was taken by Jews, but certainly the remaining non-Jews who didn't flee before the invading Arab armies took a fair share.
Note that in the 1948 map there is no Palestine, no Palestinian people. The Gaza strip is filled with Arabs, some refugees from the war, there because they picked the losing side, all ruled by Egypt. The west bank is similar, but ruled by Jordan.
What happened to the land of non-Jews previously living in the Gaza strip and West Bank? Oh, easy. That was actually stolen from them. And they were killed or forced to flee for their lives.
And that's the truth of the early days. Land the Jews lived on before the 1948 invasion from neighboring states was all land that had been purchased. And the land they lived on after they won their war against extermination, because that's what it was, was that land they had purchased and the land that had been abandoned by people on the side of the attempted exterminators.
The question you need to ask, Crack Emcee, is why Didn't Egypt absorb those fellow Arabs that they ruled over in the Gaza strip. Why did they keep them herded- for generations- in refugee camps? If everyone in your refugee camp was born there- it's no longer a refugee camp- though it carries the name (the stigma?). It's home.
Same question for west bank.
Easy to say. Distinguishing a 20-something Hamas gunman (as the New York Times would have it) from a 20-something construction worker may be nontrivial.
I've been trying to find a good, crisp image for this.
I'm going shooting tomorrow, and I want to print off half a dozen for targets.
The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.
Iran-ISIS Affair
Biden confirmed the baby beheadings. He said he saw the films.
========
why so much secrecy about this?
I recommend this week's "The Libertarian with Richard Epstein" podcast.
Moral Clarity on Hamas, Israel, and Terrorism | Libertarian: Richard Epstein | Hoover Institution
This one gets the Pulling no punches label.
"Only you think a Jew from Brooklyn has more right to live on that land than the Palestinians who were born there."
Pretty sure all the Jewish babies and toddlers who were slaughtered by those savages last weekend were born there, too. Besides, most of settlers who came to Israel after WWII, at least the ones who survived the Nazis, were forced out of Europe. Few came from Brooklyn, but you know that. You're just using the opportunity to take a cheap shot at the "Jooz" because that's how you roll.
Crack, your antisemitism is not a good look and is one more reason rational people discount what you say. That and the fact that you are an asshole.
Gospace said...
"The question you need to ask, Crack Emcee, is why Didn't Egypt absorb those fellow Arabs that they ruled over in the Gaza strip."
No, what I need to know is why they're mad at the Israelis and not the Egyptians? And, if you say, it's religion, then that just makes my point.:You're all insane. The Jews are trying to live some place they say God gave them. That's insanity. No one can expect an atheist, or any other rational entity, to go along with that story.
Get your messianic thrills someplace else and stop torturing the world.
"Look what you made me do."
It is an empowering phrase. Close your eyes and picture a never ending escalating iteration of this phrase within a species that is discovering new and empowering technologies daily.
Where does this end? Not here. Not now. We will drink the bitter wine of the grapes of wrath, for we are human.
How did Hamas pull this off? A thought.
What if we have seen the power of AI unleashed in the least likely spot? It is already known that the performance gap between high achievers and low achievers is drastically reduced via AI use (by lifting the performance of low achievers via leveraging AI) so how would that influence the effectiveness of Hamas planning and executing these atrocities they so deeply want to commit against the previously acknowledged top class defenses of the IDF? This is an explanation I haven't seen, but this is what pops into my head at this moment. Thoughts?
The situation is that a lot of people are going to die as a result of this, many soon, and there isn't a damn thing any of us can do about it. The die is cast. It is the very definition of tragedy. I feel like I'm watching that video of the chimpanzee with a fully loaded AK-47. It is so tempting to look away. Can I? Should I?
Gospace said...
"The big lie, an Crack Emcee is repeating it, is that the Jews stole the land that makes up Israel"
Hey, either I got it wrong, or you guys are the worst storytellers in the history of storytelling, because your shit don't add-up. And your shit, not adding up to others, is something you're just not going to consider, are you? And now you're going on a rampage against anybody who says so, like we're supposed to believe you're not violent people, insisting on telling others what to do and how to think. College students - young people who pretty much just arrived in this existence, and only know what they've been told since then - should lose their future jobs, if they don't agree, right? If it's accurate that you don't explain this shit right, they should lose their potential jobs for not agreeing with the fucked-up story you're telling, correct?
For people who are always complaining how much they hate mob rule, this is getting hilarious.
I stand w Isreal. Leftists, Mullahs, Hamas-Palistinian terrorists can suck it said...
"The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi."
Unless you need them for the space program, in which case, you roll out the red carpet, and start coming up with a lie to sell it. Werner Von Braun and many of his his associate all died peacefully in their sleep, here in the United States. Celebrated SS Officers, all.
Shit, we didn't even die-Nazify Germany.
Like I said, you guys are living in a world of narratives, and you're trying to force them down everyone else's road.
Fuck these Nazis and those who support them.
@wildswan: "Another point is that social media seems to have undone Hamas - it's their own gloating over their own horrors - horrors videoed and posted by them and liked thousands of times by Gaza citizens that is fueling outrage."
This brought back memories of the fall of the USSR in 1993. When the Communists were going down and when drunken Boris Yeltsin stood on tanks, they shot artillery at the Russian White House and building was black and smoking. The old die-hard Communists "felt" that a people's revolution was starting. They "felt" that there would be a spontaneous uprising among the proletariat across the entire USSR. Then...crickets...crickets...crickets...
And so it always is with Zealots in Hamas, ISIS, abortion foes, or the Squad: Fully convinced from internal feelings and unable or unwilling to accept counterevidence from outsiders. Zealots die before recognizing failure let alone willingly admitting defeat. See the last act of Les Miserable.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/inx960x640.jpg
https://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/russia-whitehouse-1993-ap-img.jpg
Iman said...
"Fuck these Nazis and those who support them."
Yeah, fuck you, NASA.
Dave Begley said...
"The new Nazis are Hamas. I don’t think even the Nazis beheaded babies."
Japanese did in WW2. Bayoneted them to.
That would be nice, but how can they do that? Capture them and shoot them when no one is looking? Try them in court? Just say the hell with it and shoot them publicly?
College students - young people who pretty much just arrived in this existence, and only know what they've been told since then - should lose their future jobs, if they don't agree, right?
I don't really see the obstacle to college students' understanding the difference between a knock-and-warn approach to retaliation for the wholesale barbarity we've seen perpetrated by Hamas, and the torture-murder of babies in their cribs. No matter what the college students consider to be the trigger. No matter what they've been told.
So, right. They should run the risk of losing their job offers, now that their potential employers know how poor their judgment and moral sensibilities are.
One method Israel might consider....
When they say every Hamas is a dead man we mean two things. First we are going to strike a major blow to Hamas members and their infrastructure in Gaza in the immediate future. But we are also putting Hamas and the world on notice.... Hamas will be taken out not just during this operation but wherever and whenever they rear their villainous heads in the future. One year, five years, it does not matter.
MikeR said...
"That would be nice, but how can they do that? Capture them and shoot them when no one is looking? Try them in court? Just say the hell with it and shoot them publicly?"
It's a war. One side has already set down the rules. There aren't going to be a lot of prisoners.
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