ADDED: WaPo reports that "OceanGate and government officials had not released the names of the passengers as of Tuesday morning," but that there were a "commander" along with 4 individuals called "'mission specialists, who paid to take part in the expedition."
We do know the name Hamish Harding, "a British businessman and seasoned adventurer," because he wrote this on social media before he descended:
"This mission is likely to be the first and only manned mission to the Titanic in 2023.”
Here, "likely" became certain.
Unlike the NYT, WaPo allows comments. Empathy is not in the forefront:
1. "Re: four 'mission specialists' who paid to take part in the expedition/They are passengers, tourists. The Post doesn't have to repeat the PR/advertising language of the company."
2. "I understand that training was required of all passengers."3. "Their 'specialty' was having $250,000 to blow on a vacay."
4. "Let’s see. I’m going to pay an ungodly amount of money, enough to support a small family for a decade, to load my son and me into a tin can that is bolted closed from the outside, then dropped on a cable more than two miles into the freezing Atlantic ocean, far deeper than the depths that military submarines venture, at pressures up to 400 times that of sea level to see a sunken ship that has been extensively photographed, filmed, and analyzed, thereby giving you a far better intellectual experience at the local library or even in your home. Yes, Virginia, there is one thing money cannot buy: brains."
5. "But seeing it from the comfort of your own home doesn’t give you bragging rights at the billionaires’ club meetings...."
ALSO:
"We run the whole thing with this game controller."Y’all please watch this. It’s a CBS story that aired a while back about that submarine that is now missing. The creators of that missing submarine are DEEPLY unserious. pic.twitter.com/B6JriITyZj
— Marie, MSN, APRN, FNP-C (@FnpMarieOH) June 19, 2023
AND: NYT: "The Coast Guard said visibility in the area where the submersible was lost was increasing today, after heavy fog yesterday. 'If it’s on the surface, we’re fairly sure we’re going to be able to find it,' a spokesman said."
Posts
73 comments:
An emergency plan should have been in place before diving.
It seems a dreadful although not painful death. I wouldn't want to have to sit around watching the various gauges fall and contemplating all the other vacation choices I could have made. Such a death must be especially hard on billionaires.
Submersibles designed for very deep ocean research used to have a heavy ballast object attached that could be dropped in an emergency, resulting in the submersible becoming buoyant and floating to the surface. Why this has not happened is a mystery. Was this particular submersible designed without it? But the pictures I’ve seen show a dark object beneath the white vessel itself held in place by thick straps. Did the emergency release fail? Did the containment fail? Did they get too close to the wreck and get caught? If this goes on much longer it will be a recovery, not a rescue.
Why didn’t they have a deep sea ROV with manipulating arms and cutting tools on the surface tender in case of emergencies like this?
If this were a movie, they would call in Elon to fix it. Heh
"It seems a dreadful although not painful death. I wouldn't want to have to sit around watching the various gauges fall and contemplating all the other vacation choices I could have made. Such a death must be especially hard on billionaires."
If the seal broke, they'd be dead before they could think of anything.
Chi bono? Heirs of the billionaire might have paid an insider to sabotage the submarine.
Sorry. That’s the lawyer in me. Accidents do happen.
Sacred burial ground? Now maybe a second?
I’m going to pay an ungodly amount of money, enough to support a small family for a decade, to load my son and me into a tin can...
Comments like this bug me.
Does the commenter think there was a briefcase full of cash on the submersible or something?
That money was paid to people, here on the surface, for doing their jobs. It is being used to support families.
When you can afford to do everything else, and probably have done so, this is a unique experience that no one else has done. That is the attraction. It's not brains or anything else, it is the human desire toward novelty. Same can be said for space tourism. If there was not a hint of risk, it probably would not be undertaken.
I am a Divemaster with (probably, I've lost track) a thousand hours under water, most of it with students.
Every single thing we teach people about safety in the water seems absent there.
I've been on a relatively shallow bottom (90 ft) chasing a student with not enough air to get to the surface and been very very scared.
I've also jumped out of a perfectly good non burning airplane 20-30 times and would go up in one of those super altitude balloons because I know you can get down from there safely with a bottle of air and a chute, as long as you were dressed appropriately.
I wouldn't get in that sub if you paid me $250K.
-XC
$250K for a ticket to gawk at an open grave, and now they are part of the attraction! Money well spent.
Imagine paying $125k to have a death that "garners" global headlines.
"praying for a cracked pressure hull instead of the endless gasping agony on the bottom". Words presumed to be in the hearts of submarine crews being sunk.
I understand they also have a weight that can be dropped that allows the sub to float to to the surface. So snagged underwater seems the likely cause.
Have they found the missing sub (seems not). Is the Navy submersible "drone" on site, or even on the way?
Time to get there and perform a rescue if location is known?
Ya pays your money, ya take yer chances.
They're most likely dead from some hull crush event.
I assume this is the last trip to the Titanic wreck in a paid amateur submersible.
"It seems a dreadful although not painful death."
Huddled in the dark waiting for death as hope fades seems pretty painful to me.
isn't The Moral of the Story:
Shelve your morbid ghoulish curiosity and DON'T GO DOWN THERE!
They were JUST F*CKING TOURISTS. What was their CO2 footprint?
HOW MANY TONS of CO2 will be released searching for their corpses?
F*CK these ghouls!!!
Reading the outflow of empathy reminds me of the other junior Kennedy and the efforts made to recover his crashed plane. Back then, Democrats needed Ted’s vote.
They're toast
Vicki from Pasadena
I'm Assuming, that they've All been Vaxed (and Re-Vaxed (and Boosted (and Re-Boosted))) ??
Because,
if someone wanted to RISK THEIR (and others) LIVES by NOT being Vaxed (and Re-Vaxed (and Boosted (and Re-Boosted)))
NO ONE would lift a finger to help them.. Right? i mean; RIGHT?
"If the seal broke, they'd be dead before they could think of anything."
Not to worry. They picked up the seals at a Home Depot, in the 'Hurricane Preparedness' section. Never know when you'll need something to stop a tropical rain from coming in under the door. Or a deep water ocean coming in all around the door.
If you did your homework and still decided that's where you wanted to go for vacation, there's not much more to be said about it, really. Hideous people built and sold the craft and excursion. And ego-fronted people thought it'd look good on their personal CV. Or on their social media page.
Sorry to be so cold. Sure it's awful. But it's not like children digging for cobalt with sticks and their bare hands for pennies a day so that we can drive an EV level of awful. It's more like the, aww...sorry to see that character on the show I like get killed off kind of awful.
Who pays for this useless rescue theater?
ah yes, us
There was a CBS Sunday morning segment on this submersible awhile back. The reporter was asked to sign a release of liability. Among other things the document warned that the submersible had not been certified by any governmental agency. The reporter said the sub appeared to have been put together… I forget the exact words he used. But the sub didn’t inspire confidence. Let’s put it that way. There are a couple of billionaires in that sub.
PS. And just because you call something 'Titan' doesn't mean it actually is.
The Thresher submarine (1963) was crushed hard in 2,400 feet of water.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/08/14/questions-about-infamous-lost-sub-thresher-resurface-navy-releases-new-documents-tied-decades-old-mystery.html
I'd guess it most likely leaked or cracked, and then imploded like a Styrofoam cup. (Only 600 feet in the photo below).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ginatrapani/4279612391/
I'd guess there's a small chance of a power outage, sinking without a leak, etc.
The coverage so far has been weirdly optimistic, yes, but we live in an era of propaganda so I'm not surprised.
I'm not saying it was a Megalodon...but it was a Megalodon.
"I’m going to pay an ungodly amount of money, enough to support a small family for a decade"
Do they think the submarine company just burns the money?
No one should be diving on the wreck except for scientific or historical research purposes as it is essentially a Tomb. I have no fucks to give for these rich elitists putting their lives at risk for a selfie and bragging rights.
I'm surprised at people's cynicism. This, like space travel, pushes the boundaries of human experience. Two of the passengers are father and young adult son. Our first adventurers are always the rich. I hope they're found safely.
And the game controller shade is tedious. It's just an interface device, like a mouse and keyboard.
What's Next?
paying $250,000 to fly over Mount Everest; and gawk at the dead bodies up there??
Here's a helpful hint. IF you feel the need, to gawk at dead bodies; just f*cking KILL Yourself.
Do the world, the gene pool, and yourself a favor.. END IT NOW!!!
The signed consent forms and waivers of liability are likely under lock and key in a safe surrounded by two outer rings, one full of apex carnivores, the other full of venomous snakes.
Haven't resurfaced and can't communicate. Two separate problems seems unlikely to me. Hull breach seems most likely, followed by electrical power failure.
Kate said...
I'm surprised at people's cynicism. This, like space travel, pushes the boundaries of human experience.
want to do something that "pushes the boundaries of human experience"?
Take your $250,000 and yourself to South Stony Island Avenue in Chicago and sit on a bench with your pile of cash.. SEE What happens next! I guaranty you it will be an experience!
Just because they are able to convince the super-rich to be adventurous, doesn't mean that they have an actual, well-thought-out plan in place, with contingencies. I wonder if their surface support vessel has a winch drum. Big anchor-handlers have huge winch drums that could accommodate a rescue tether of this length, and an on-board Remote Operated Vehicle could deliver it to the stranded vehicle. One wonders what they actually have in place for contingencies. It wouldn't be for me. But we should know more. The sub would certainly have beacons in place that signal distress and provide homing functionality, and should have automatic deployment, fail-safe - but these have not been mentioned yet
Victor Vescovo has a resume that reads like the World's Most Interesting Man. I wonder what he thinks of all this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Vescovo
I read that communication was lost after only an hour and a half. How far down would they have gotten in that time? If there wasn't enough time to get close to the wreck, that seems to suggest a seal failure.
Seems like a VR trip would be interesting. Except for thrill/danger factors and bragging rights.
That said, if I won a BIG lottery, for my family's security, I'd sign up for one of the space flights available.
Phil Swift please pick up the white courtesy phone... Phil Swift... courtesy phone...
Can’t have innovation because too many people with envy shaming early adopters. I can understand being upset with whoever developed this contraption and sold tickets on it, because they might have created an inherently dangerous device without proper testing and offered it as a qualified dive vessel for the intended purpose.
I'm amazed by what a bunch of fucking assholes most of the commenters here are. They paid their money for an interesting experience. Things went horribly wrong. Now all the people on the submersible are probably dead. Why do so many people feel obliged to make shitty comments about the dead, or what they were doing? For fuck's sake. This comment section is just reinforcing my latent misanthropy. As Sidney Greenstreet once said in a film, "There just isn't enough kindness in the world"
The Curse is still taking lives after all these years.
The irony of naming the original ship after the Titans, who were sent to the deepest region of the earth after their defeat by the Olympians, should have been both obvious and cautionary.
I assume this is the last trip to the Titanic wreck in a paid amateur submersible.
I doubt it. People die on Everest every year, but there is still a waiting list to climb it. Hopefully a better sub will be built and used.
Personally, if I was going to ride one of these subs, I'd prefer to go to a whale fall or a thermal vent.
Huddled in the dark waiting for death as hope fades seems pretty painful to me.
The most like occurrence was implosion. If the sub did implode, it would be literally instantaneous, everyone would be dead before they even knew something was wrong.
How to live and what to live for -- we each get to decide for ourselves. One size does not fit all. The commenter crowd here often leans a bit libertarian, making all the negative and judgmental stuff in this thread a bit weird.
How to live and what to live for -- we each get to decide for ourselves. One size does not fit all. The commenter crowd here often leans a bit libertarian, making all the negative and judgmental stuff in this thread a bit weird.
$250K for a ticket to gawk at an open grave,
People visit cemeteries and tour battle sites every day. How is this any different?
this is like the couple, that built their summer camp on an ancient indian burial site.
You shouldn't (DON'T!) feel bad for them, you should be GLAD! that they came to this end.
While the teenaged campers didn't know that the camp was a burial site; these ghouls DID know..
that's WHY they went down there. I am GLAD that they are dead. I Hope this happens to ANY tourist that tries this
So if these sub guys are smart they'll build another sub and charge $300,000 to see the Titanic AND Titan. You know, make lemonade.
This is essentially mountain climbing without the effort. The people involved intentionally went somewhere dangerous where rescue is unlikely. Unlike climbers, they aren't relying on their own skills.
The possible array of accidents is large and the subset which are survivable is small. The fraction of those where rescue is possible is smaller.
To survive this, they must either be on the surface and the radio isn't working, or they are fouled on something near the bottom and a drone could free them by cutting them free. If the sub sank and has negative buoyancy, a drone can't help them. It is not possible to transfer people between craft at that depth. The sub can't be lifted without a cable so big and heavy that a ship carrying it can't possibly get there in time. IDK what is even capable of doing that- probably some specialist gear for oil pipelines or communications cables.
Finding them on the surface can be done, but on the bottom is very difficult. If they have a sonar transponder and can broadcast that would make it easier. If not, IDK.
Grim. I'm sorry this happened to them.
the Next thing!
going to Everest to see the dead bodies!
THE FROZEN BODIES OF MOUNT EVEREST
Wouldn't this be the next thing, that.. pushes the boundaries of human experience??
Gahrie said...
People visit cemeteries and tour battle sites every day. How is this any different?
hmm.. let us count (some of) the ways!
1) cemeteries and battle sites are NOT open graves
2) touring a battle site don't cost Nothing Like $250,000
3) touring a battle site does not consume precious resources
4) touring a battle site does NOT involve MASSIVE recovery missions when your piece of sh*t sub fails
5) touring a battle site doesn't fill the inter tubes with All THIS CRAP
6), and finally...
My Great Great Grandfather Oscar Clapper is buried over in New Hampton Iowa..
Drive over there and dig him up to look at him; and Find Out how little gilbar would care about life inprisonment
Did you know that cats can start storms through magic stored in their tails?
If a ship's cat falls or is thrown overboard, it will summon a terrible storm to sink the ship and if the ship is able to survive, it will be cursed with nine years of bad luck.
Not saying that's what happened here, but something clearly went wrong.
Gahrie said...
Huddled in the dark waiting for death as hope fades seems pretty painful to me.
The most like occurrence was implosion. If the sub did implode, it would be literally instantaneous, everyone would be dead before they even knew something was wrong.
The water comes rushing in. Your body is slammed against whatever it is you're going to be slammed against. The air rapidly compresses, heating up a few hundred degrees. Then the wall of water hits.
All before your body registers what happened. Tough to say at hat point during the process you died...
I assume the mother ship was communicating by hydrophone when they suddenly lost contact. If they were- they should have heard an implosion. If there was an implosion- SOSUS or the classified replacement for it heard it. But the Navy isn't going to reveal that to anyone...
So likely an electrical failure that may or may not have involved a battery fire. In any event, there really isn't a rescue operation going on though that's what it's being called. It's a "Let's find out what happened" operation. If they can.
We used to refer to all the rescue equipment on the subs as stuff to make congressmen and mother's happy. None of us ever expected to be able to use it should something happen. Though it did happen once or twice on diesel boats in shallow water.
In the entire history of the U.S. Navy there are only two known instances of successful underwater escapes fro sunken disabled submarines. (SS192) sank of the Isles of Shoals in 230 feet of water on 23 May 1939, when all compartments aft of the control room flooded through the engine air induction piping. The next day all of the 3 men who survived the initial flooding were removed through the forward torpedo room escape trunk by expeditious and skillful use of a submarine rescue chamber. The task was accomplished in four trips. Tang (SS306) was sunk off the coast of China in 180 feet of water on 26 October 1944 by the malfunctioning of one of her own torpedoes. Six men made successful individual escapes from underwater, one from the conning tower and five from the forward torpedo room escape trunk. The conning tower escape and one of the forward torpedo room escapes were "free". The remaining four were "lung" escapes. At least eight other men are known to have left the escape trunk but either died shortly after reaching the surface or were not seen again after leaving the trunk.
Hmm…
"The most significant innovation is the proprietary real-time hull health monitoring (RTM) system. Titan is the only manned submersible to employ an integrated real-time health monitoring system. Utilizing co-located acoustic sensors and strain gauges throughout the pressure boundary, the RTM system makes it possible to analyze the effects of changing pressure on the vessel as the submersible dives deeper, and accurately assess the integrity of the structure. This onboard health analysis monitoring system provides early warning detection for the pilot with enough time to arrest the descent and safely return to surface."
"Here's a helpful hint. IF you feel the need, to gawk at dead bodies; just f*cking KILL Yourself.
Do the world, the gene pool, and yourself a favor.. END IT NOW!!!"
I think it's possible that the intent was to view the shipwreck, with no expectation of seeing dead bodies. But then, that's just me...
"Old and slow said...
I'm amazed by what a bunch of fucking assholes most of the commenters here are. They paid their money for an interesting experience. Things went horribly wrong. Now all the people on the submersible are probably dead. Why do so many people feel obliged to make shitty comments about the dead, or what they were doing? For fuck's sake. This comment section is just reinforcing my latent misanthropy. As Sidney Greenstreet once said in a film, "There just isn't enough kindness in the world""
This is what civility bullshit actually looks like.
".............When the Reaper’s task had ended"
There you go. The Messenger has an article on military usage of game controllers. Makes sense. Anyone under 35 (and some of us over 35) have competence with the device. Anyone in the world can use and understand it.
“Remember kiddies, you may be brave, daring, an out of the box thinker and a risk taker ... but the sea does not care.
She will find where you are arrogant and careless and will kill you not out of spite, but to just prove a point to others.
She is not to be trifled with.”
@cdrsalamander
Unlike the NYT, WaPo allows comments. Empathy is not in the forefront:
Rich progressives bitching about how people richer than them spend their money? Why am I not surprised?
At this point any bodies on the Titanic are skeletons. We put human skeletons (and mummies) on display in museums.
The hull is carbon fiber. Carbon fiber shatters when overstressed. They never knew what hit them.
Swede Momsen had it easy with Squalus.
To old and slow, it’s Darwin in action. After a certain level of stupidity, people do lose empathy.
Apparently, a pipeline ship, MV Deep Energy, got there. The USN is sending some lift system as well.
We'll see. Still have to find the sub.
They lost contact with the submersible at 5:45 AM Eastern on Sunday. It’s now 10:00 PM Tuesday. Even if they found it down by the wreck, I don’t see how they can get it up to the surface without it running out of air. The last forlorn hope is that they succeeded in dropping the ballast, floated to the surface, and just have not been located bobbing in the ocean yet. All anyone can do is hope.
@Free Manure, I’m with you. If the passengers took a risk and lost, well, if we humans didn’t take some risks along the way we’d still be eating raw meat (fire’s risky, you know) and knapping flint tools.
I think it's possible that the intent was to view the shipwreck, with no expectation of seeing dead bodies. But then, that's just me...
Possible??? The ocean depths are rife with scavengers. Hagfish, white crabs, rat tail fish, brittle stars, there are a lot of them. The Titanic sank 111 years ago. Everything that could have been eaten by some scavenger or another, including bones, was devoured over a century ago.
Sonobuoys are picking up periodic banging that suggests chance of life. I think chance of rescue is unlikely. Recovery will be unlikely. For the first vessel of its kind, I think they made a mistake not having some umbilical if only for communications. Below 3000m, loss of communication was expected, so ten hours was lost waiting for the vessel to ascend back to communication depth.
OK everybody. What have we learned here?
If somebody offers you a ride on their home-made submarine what do we say?
Hard pass.
Limited blogger said...
"An emergency plan should have been in place before diving."
It is. The "submarine" is held down by ballast weights, held on by electromagnetic clamps. If the power failed, the electromagnets release the ballast weights, and the "submarine" should pop to the surface like a cork.
Since that didn't happen, then the probable fate was a leak or implosion of the vessel, and that's instant death.
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